A D V E R T I S E M E N T


Author Topic: BobGraff's Attempt at Aimless Ryan's Tommy's Pizza Clone  (Read 3373 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline bobgraff

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 82
Re: BobGraff's Attempt at Aimless Ryan's Tommy's Pizza Clone
« Reply #80 on: September 23, 2017, 09:23:08 AM »
9/20 Dough

821 g Flour (90% bread flour + 10% Semolina)
377 g Water (46%)
12 g IDY
12 g Salt
41 g Olive Oil (5%)
16 g Low diastatic malt powder
8g Dry milk powder

Dough Prep
25 Hour RT Ferment, dough ball stored in fridge for 12 hours.

Sauce
Kroger crushed tomatoes, oregano, salt, sugar

Cheese
Kroger sliced smoked provolone, grated parmesan.

The Bake
5 min par bake with sauce + 7 minute bake dressed @ 530.

Results
Decently flavorful, tender crust.  Topped with Kroger mild Italian sausage, chopped onions, and banana peppers.  Garlic power sprinkled on, post bake (I do this with almost all of my pizzas). 

Offline bobgraff

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 82
Re: BobGraff's Attempt at Aimless Ryan's Tommy's Pizza Clone
« Reply #81 on: September 27, 2017, 08:16:44 AM »
9/20 Dough

Dough Prep
25 Hour RT Ferment, dough ball stored in fridge for 3+ days.

Sauce
Sam's Choice crushed tomatoes, 1/16 tsp Penzy's Pizza Seasoning, oregano, salt, sugar

Cheese
Trader Joe's WM Mozzarella + a sprinkling of TJ's Welsh White Cheddar

The Bake
5 min par bake with sauce + 7 minute bake dressed @ 530.

Results
The 24 RT ferment + multiple days in the fridge in dough ball form makes for a great tasting crust.  The extra days made the crust slightly chewier (compared to the previous pizza), but not at all tough.  I liked the addition of the Penzy's pizza seasoning, though I need to back off on the additional salt a bit.  The WM mozz was just ok.  I'm coming to the conclusion that I am more of a provolone fan.

Offline tedcholl

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 38
  • Location: San Antonio, TX
  • I Love Pizza!
Re: BobGraff's Attempt at Aimless Ryan's Tommy's Pizza Clone
« Reply #82 on: September 27, 2017, 03:27:16 PM »
I definitely like Provolone over Mozzarella for this style of pizza.    I often use a 75% Provolone and 25% Mozzarella mix and like that as well.   Finally, if you can find smoked provolone I recommend you try that.   I use smoked provolone almost exclusively.   It loses the strong smoked flavor after being baked but still adds something a little special to the flavor.   I find in the the specialty cheese section of my local grocer, it is not in the Deli section which is where I get the regular provolone when I buy it.  (I don't buy it grated, I grate it myself.

Offline bobgraff

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 82
Re: BobGraff's Attempt at Aimless Ryan's Tommy's Pizza Clone
« Reply #83 on: September 30, 2017, 02:16:10 PM »
I tried Blaze Pizza for the first time last night.

http://www.blazepizza.com

Blaze is a fast-casual chain specializing in "Fast Fired" pizzas, as they say.  It's no joke - from dough ball to ready-to eat pizza in 5 minutes.

A couple of thoughts -   1)  Using a heated dough press is cheating.  2)  I need a heated dough press.  :chef:

I enjoyed their pizza.  Not my favorite, but pretty good and very convenient.  My one complaint is that the chicken that topped my "Green stripe" (chicken-pesto) looked as if it was factory cooked, frozen, then defrosted in-store.

Offline bobgraff

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 82
Re: BobGraff's Attempt at Aimless Ryan's Tommy's Pizza Clone
« Reply #84 on: October 01, 2017, 10:07:54 AM »
9/26 Dough

821 g Flour (90% bread flour + 5% Semolina)
377 g Water (46%)
12 g IDY
12 g Salt
41 g Olive Oil (5%)
16 g Low diastatic malt powder
6g Dry milk powder
1/4 teaspoon onion powder

Dough Prep
12 Hour RT Ferment, dough ball stored in fridge for 4 days.

Sauce
Cento italian tomatoes (rinsed and minced), oregano, salt, sugar + the leftover 9/20 sauce mixed in

Cheese
Trader Joe's sliced provolone,  TJ's Welsh White Cheddar, grated romano

The Bake
5 min par bake with sauce + 8 minute bake dressed @ 530.

Results
Made two pizzas for a cookout with my board gaming buddies (my other hobby).  As with the last attempt at making pizzas for a social gathering, the crust wasn't as browned as I would have liked.  I par baked both skins first, before topping and finishing them.  My take-away is that I should give the oven plenty of time to re-heat after the par bake.  I might hold the sauce until after the par-bake in these situations as I imagine resting sauced, par-baked skins for an extended amount of time would lead to a soggy finished product.

All that said - the pizzas were well received.

A D V E R T I S E M E N T


Offline bobgraff

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 82
BobGraff's Attempt at Aimless Ryan's Tommy's Pizza Clone
« Reply #85 on: October 05, 2017, 01:15:18 PM »
9/29 Doughs

821 g Flour (50% bread flour + 45% AP flour+ 5% Semolina)
377 g Water (dough 1)
282 g Coors Light + 94 g water (dough 2)
12 g IDY
12 g Salt
41 g Olive Oil (5%)
16 g Low diastatic malt powder

Dough Prep
18 Hour RT Ferment, dough balls stored in fridge for 4 days.

Sauce
Cento italian tomatoes (rinsed and minced), oregano, salt, sugar + 6 in 1 ground tomatos

Cheese
Trader Joe's sliced provolone + grated romano

The Bake
5 min par bake with sauce + 6-7 minute bake dressed @ 530-540.  I increased the temp 5 degrees a couple of times between bakes to help combat heat loss while opening the oven.

Results
This was my beer vs water experiment.  2 doughs, same ingredients, except 1 was made with 75/25 beer-water mixture and the other all water. 

Pizza 1: Water dough, par baked with sauce.  The skin didn't roll out as thin as I would have liked and a huge bubble appeared during the finishing bake, so I pulled it a few seconds early.

Pizza 2:  Beer dough, par baked without sauce (this was a no-sauce pizza, per wife's request).  This pizza was exceptionally crispy.

Pizza 3:  Made from the scraps of the beer dough.  This pizza, along with all scrap pizzas, rolled out perfectly thin. 

Conclusions?  No noticeable difference between the doughs, taste nor consistency.  I had wondered if the beer was partially responsible for pizza 2's crispness, but I also baked 2 plain scraps of each dough and the all-water dough was the crisper of the 2. 

Maybe there's some other beer out there that would add a more pronounced change, but it seems to me that focusing on other ingredients and/or process improvements are a better use of my time.
« Last Edit: October 05, 2017, 10:42:48 PM by bobgraff »

Offline bobgraff

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 82
Re: BobGraff's Attempt at Aimless Ryan's Tommy's Pizza Clone
« Reply #86 on: October 08, 2017, 10:55:27 AM »
9/29 Dough

Dough Prep
18 Hour RT Ferment, dough balls stored in freezer for 7 days, defrosted in the fridge for 1 day +  90 minutes on the counter

Sauce
6 in 1 ground tomatos, Penzy's Pizza seasoning, oregano

Cheese
Trader Joe's sliced provolone + grated romano

The Bake
4 min par bake without sauce + 7 minute bake dressed @ 530-540.

Results
These pizzas were on the tough side.  As I concluded previously, those micro-blisters are a sure sign of a tough crust.

I have been keeping the dough in balled form (vs rolled out skins) during the CF based on a suggestion that Tedcholl made as a way to reduce toughness in the crust.  That change greatly improved my crusts, however rolling out the skins just-in-time feels like a lot of added work during the dinner hour. 

The idea that's currently bouncing around in my head is to roll out the skins 2-4 hours in advance, not for the sake of fermentation, but rather as an attempt to reduce the number of last minute tasks I need to do to get dinner on the table.  Another benefit is that the skins seem to relax during that rest period, which allows me to roll them out further.

And that's what I did here.  So the question is, why did the crust turn tough on me?  Old dough?  Storing the skins in the fridge?  The second rollout?   Hmmmm....

I also reversed the cheese and sauce on these.  I thought it looked good, but the jury is out as to whether it's better one way or the other.
« Last Edit: October 08, 2017, 12:52:09 PM by bobgraff »

Offline tedcholl

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 38
  • Location: San Antonio, TX
  • I Love Pizza!
Re: BobGraff's Attempt at Aimless Ryan's Tommy's Pizza Clone
« Reply #87 on: October 08, 2017, 09:30:25 PM »
Hi Bob,   I appreciate you trying my idea and sorry to hear that you are still having tough crusts.  When i first started making Tommy pizza clones I also had tough crusts with some regularity.   I no longer do and haven't had for some time.   I am finally able to recreate week after week pizzas that are very consistent.  I'm not entirely sure what exactly resulted in the change for me but I do measure everything and stay very consistent with my process and formula.   I make 3, 14" pizzas every weekend for my mother and father in law, my brother and sister in law, and my family - we all grew up eating pizza in Central Ohio in the style of Tommy's.  Everyone loves the pizza.  In an attempt to at least help I'll share more specifically what I do.

I use KABF
45% water
1.5% ADY
1.0 % Salt
1.0% Sugar
6.0% Shortening (Crisco Flakes) 

I use 80% provolone cheese and prefer smoked provolone and mix with  20% whole milk mozzarela.  I use the 38 mm Ezzo Pepperoni.

I RT ferment for at least 6 hours, max 12 hours - I normally punch down the dough 2 or 3 times.   I then put dough balls in ziploc bags and store in the fridge for 3 days before moving to the freezer.  I move from freezer to fridge the night before I plan to make the pizzas.   After allowing a short warm up at room temp I roll out (i halve the dough ball, roll out each ball as thin as possible, fold into 4 layers and then combine the two balls into one and roll out again.)   I then let the rolled out dough rest for 15 minutes so that it rests and no longer shrinks back.   I then wrap up the rolled out crusts (between 2 sheets of parchment paper and then inside of aluminum foil and put in the fridge for 2-4 hours and take them out when ready to top and cook. (similar to what you are suggesting you might do)    I cook mine at 550 on a pizza steel for 11 minutes.  I don't parbake.

The things that seem to have helped my pizza the most were freezing dough balls instead of crusts (not sure why but no more tough crusts),  leaving in the fridge for 3 days before moving to the freezer (improved the flavor of the dough), and then keeping the rolled out crusts in the fridge for 2-4 hours and taking them out just before topping them and cooking (gave me blisters on the bottom of the crust).   I also got more crust lamination when I went from 5 to 6 % shortening.

I did try some other flours and diastatic malt, powdered milk, etc but none of those seemed to help my finished product.

I hope that something of what I describe is helpful for you and gives you some ideas of what else you might try.   

Enjoy the journey,   best wishes!

Tedch

Offline bobgraff

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 82
Re: BobGraff's Attempt at Aimless Ryan's Tommy's Pizza Clone
« Reply #88 on: October 09, 2017, 08:42:56 AM »
I feel like I just got the answers to the homework!

Seriously - thanks Ted! I am going to pick up some Crisco flakes this morning and give it a try.

Offline tedcholl

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 38
  • Location: San Antonio, TX
  • I Love Pizza!
Re: BobGraff's Attempt at Aimless Ryan's Tommy's Pizza Clone
« Reply #89 on: October 09, 2017, 09:42:53 AM »
Bob,

I misspoke, they are actually called Crisco Baking Sticks.  Here's a photo.

Best wishes!

A D V E R T I S E M E N T


Offline bobgraff

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 82
Re: BobGraff's Attempt at Aimless Ryan's Tommy's Pizza Clone
« Reply #90 on: October 09, 2017, 04:50:05 PM »
Ok - here's what I mixed up:

410 g Bread Flour
184 g Water
6 g IDY
4 g Salt
4 g Sugar
25 g Crisco (Baking sticks)

It will doing it's thing on the kitchen counter for 10 hours, then I'll ball it up and put the dough balls in the fridge.  We'll be cooking it up on Thursday (2.5 day cold ferment).

Offline bobgraff

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 82
Re: BobGraff's Attempt at Aimless Ryan's Tommy's Pizza Clone
« Reply #91 on: October 13, 2017, 10:05:07 AM »
10/09 Dough (Ted's formula)

821 g Bread Flour
368 g Water (45%)
12 g IDY
8 g Salt
8 g Sugar
50 g Crisco (6%)


Dough Prep
10 Hour RT Ferment, dough balls stored in fridge for 2.5 days, RT for 2 hours prior to roll-out.

Sauce
Cento italian tomatoes, oregano, Penzy's pizza seasoning, salt, sugar.

Cheese
Trader Joe's sliced provolone, Trader Joe's WM mozzarella, grated romano.

The Bake
5 min par bake with sauce + 7 minute bake dressed @ 530. 

Results
My wife said these were the best pizzas I've made to date.  Perfectly tender and crispy.  Bravo Ted, bravo!

The skins were formed by rolling out 155g dough balls via rolling pin and pie bag.  After layering 2 skins, I transferred the combined skin onto 2 sheets of plastic wrap and continued rolling (the pie bag limits how far one can roll).  For curiosity's sake, I stuck one combined skin into the fridge for 3-4 hours whereas the other pizza was baked immediately. 

I used my 14-inch pizza pan to cut out a round skin, removed the top layer of plastic wrap, then flipped the skin onto my peel.  I'm extremely pleased with this dough management process, as both the pie bag and plastic wrap allow me to rotate, flip, and transfer the skins with ease.  Also note that there's no need for bench flour and minimal clean up.

I also discovered that when rolling out the dough, at the point where the dough becomes resistant to expanding, it helps to roll just inside the edge (vs rolling over it).  This method seems to allow the dough to expand outward.  Perhaps rolling over the edge somewhat pinches/constrains the dough from expanding?

Regarding the difference between the refrigerated skin vs. the other?  The non-refrigerated skin may have been slightly crisper, but less tender?  I neglected to sample the second pizza (refrigerated skin) immediately out of the oven as I got preoccupied rolling out a third, scrap dough pizza.  See side-by-side underskirt pic below - refrigerated skin on the right.  FWIW, I would not hesitate to refrigerate a skin for a few hours as it makes the dinner-time prep a whole lot easier.

Formula wise, I think 45% water and 6% fat were both positive changes.  As a personal preference, I like a bit more salt in my dough so I'll likely revert back to my normal 1.5% level. 

Really happy with these pizzas.  Thanks again Ted for all of the guidance!
« Last Edit: October 13, 2017, 06:48:18 PM by bobgraff »

Offline tedcholl

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 38
  • Location: San Antonio, TX
  • I Love Pizza!
Re: BobGraff's Attempt at Aimless Ryan's Tommy's Pizza Clone
« Reply #92 on: October 13, 2017, 10:10:45 AM »
Glad to hear the news.  I had been holding my breath.    Kudos to all the folks on this forum from whom I've learned so I felt compelled to share my knowledge with you.  Thanks for sharing bobgraff and best wishes going forward.  I'll continue to follow your posts and your journey and will be ready to use your learnings in my own pizza making.

A D V E R T I S E M E N T


 

A D V E R T I S E M E N T