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  • #1 by dinogoesrawr on 27 Sep 2017
  • I am curious if anyone knows the recipie for Papa Johns / Dominoes pizza?
    My Pizza Hut one is getting closer but I am very curious to experiment with other bases now.
  • #2 by csnack on 27 Sep 2017
  • I am curious if anyone knows the recipie for Papa Johns / Dominoes pizza?
    My Pizza Hut one is getting closer but I am very curious to experiment with other bases now.
    If you look over in the American section you'll see a sticky of Pete's Papa John's clone thread and you won't find better info online about a PJ clone. It's a long thread, but you don't have to read through the entire thing before you can get started; just the first few posts, but he's made many revisions to the clone throughout the thread. As for Domino's, maybe a search of the forum would turn something up, but I've not seen any detailed info like the PJ thread, though I haven't exactly looked for it either.
  • #3 by dinogoesrawr on 02 Oct 2017
  • If you look over in the American section you'll see a sticky of Pete's Papa John's clone thread and you won't find better info online about a PJ clone. It's a long thread, but you don't have to read through the entire thing before you can get started; just the first few posts, but he's made many revisions to the clone throughout the thread. As for Domino's, maybe a search of the forum would turn something up, but I've not seen any detailed info like the PJ thread, though I haven't exactly looked for it either.
    I had a look here: https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=6758.0
    But I was unable to find the exact receipie and instructions like I did for the pizza hut one (https://www.pizzamaking.com/panpizza.php)
    Any ideas please?

    Also I saw stuff like King Authur Bread Flour and IDY and I have no clue what either are in the UK....
  • #4 by Pete-zza on 02 Oct 2017
  • I had a look here: https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=6758.0
    But I was unable to find the exact receipie and instructions like I did for the pizza hut one (https://www.pizzamaking.com/panpizza.php)
    Any ideas please?

    Also I saw stuff like King Authur Bread Flour and IDY and I have no clue what either are in the UK....
    dinogoerawr,

    The basic PJ clone dough that attempts to replicate the dough that PJ uses in the U.S. is at Reply 2 at https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=6758.msg58197#msg58197. The two posts before Reply 2 are mainly for background purposes and also to help me remember all the research I did to come up with the dough formulation in Reply 2. 

    Since many people with regular home refrigerators may have problems making the dough discussed in Reply 2, as an easier alternative, I often recommend the PJ clone formulation set forth in Reply 20 at https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=6758.msg59217#msg59217.

    As for the flour to use where you are in the UK, you will want to look for a flour with a protein content of around 13.5%. For possible UK candidates, you might check the listing of flours as set forth at https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=40212.msg401012#msg401012 where I have identified the flours that are available in the UK. You may recognize some of the names of flours that may be able to purchase. Or maybe another member from the UK seeing our posts can help you out.

    As for the IDY, that is a fast acting yeast that does not have to be prehydrated in a small amount of warm water for several minutes before using. It can just be tossed in with the flour. I am not sure what that type of yeast is called in the UK.

    Peter
  • #5 by dinogoesrawr on 04 Oct 2017
  • dinogoerawr,

    The basic PJ clone dough that attempts to replicate the dough that PJ uses in the U.S. is at Reply 2 at https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=6758.msg58197#msg58197. The two posts before Reply 2 are mainly for background purposes and also to help me remember all the research I did to come up with the dough formulation in Reply 2. 

    Since many people with regular home refrigerators may have problems making the dough discussed in Reply 2, as an easier alternative, I often recommend the PJ clone formulation set forth in Reply 20 at https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=6758.msg59217#msg59217.

    As for the flour to use where you are in the UK, you will want to look for a flour with a protein content of around 13.5%. For possible UK candidates, you might check the listing of flours as set forth at https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=40212.msg401012#msg401012 where I have identified the flours that are available in the UK. You may recognize some of the names of flours that may be able to purchase. Or maybe another member from the UK seeing our posts can help you out.

    As for the IDY, that is a fast acting yeast that does not have to be prehydrated in a small amount of warm water for several minutes before using. It can just be tossed in with the flour. I am not sure what that type of yeast is called in the UK.

    Peter

    Ah ok IDY = instant yeast. Cool - I have the right ingredients.

    I am a bit confused because the dough you seem to leave for days in the fridge? Won't it go off? I only have a normal fridge also, and am curious what to do. I was reading through the thread but didnt see the recipie for a clone that doesnt require deep cold.

    I only could find this also: http://mobile.pizzarecipes101.com/pizzeria/papa-johns-pizza-recipe.htm as a recipie. Is it accurate?
  • #6 by Pete-zza on 04 Oct 2017
  • I am a bit confused because the dough you seem to leave for days in the fridge? Won't it go off? I only have a normal fridge also, and am curious what to do. I was reading through the thread but didnt see the recipie for a clone that doesnt require deep cold.

    I only could find this also: http://mobile.pizzarecipes101.com/pizzeria/papa-johns-pizza-recipe.htm as a recipie. Is it accurate?
    dinogoessrawr,

    In the U.S., Papa John's makes its dough balls in commissaries strategically located throughout the U.S. The dough balls are kept very cold and deliveries are made to most of its stores twice a week and stored in coolers until ready to be used. The dough balls at that point can be five to eight days old and, in some cases, nine days old. Home refrigerators cannot do this, mostly because home refrigerators run warmer than commercial coolers and the doors are opened and closed too often to maintain fixed temperatures. That is the reason why I cited the three-day PJ clone dough.

    As for same day PJ clone doughs, I cited a few in the post at Reply 31 at https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=6758.msg60076#msg60076 and at Reply 35 at https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=6758.msg60197#msg60197. I also gave an emergency dough version at Reply 52 at https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=6758.msg66312#msg66312. None of the foregoing PJ clone doughs is made by PJ. Only the first one at Reply 2 or some close version of it.

    As for the Internet PJ dough formulation you found at http://mobile.pizzarecipes101.com/pizzeria/papa-johns-pizza-recipe.htm, I came across that recipe during my research but did not believe it. The only people who know the recipe in the PJ universe are the people at the commissaries, and they do not work with volume recipes and distribute that information to store employees. It is by design and intention that the store workers know as little as possible about the PJ dough. Their job is just to assemble pizzas. As for the recipe itself, I believe that the hydration is too high and that the amount of IDY, at about 1.9%, is also too high. The amounts of sugar an oil are also high but that is typical of a PJ dough. But the dough itself is an emergency dough, and PJ does not make such a dough for use in its stores.

    Peter
  • #7 by Hermit on 05 Oct 2017
  • Here's a shot at a a dominos type sauce, goes great on my american style pizzas

    28oz can of WP tomatoes (I like S&W or san marzanos), broken apart and strained with the juice/water slowly cooked down to a sauce consistency
    salt to taste (could be up to 1/2 tsp depending on the tomatoes)
    1 tsp black pepper
    1 tsp garlic powder
    1 tsp dried oregano
    1/2 tsp dried basil
    sugar to taste (could be up to 1/2 tsp depending on the tomatoes)

    Run it in a blender until it's relatively smooth.
  • #8 by dinogoesrawr on 05 Oct 2017
  • dinogoessrawr,

    In the U.S., Papa John's makes its dough balls in commissaries strategically located throughout the U.S. The dough balls are kept very cold and deliveries are made to most of its stores twice a week and stored in coolers until ready to be used. The dough balls at that point can be five to eight days old and, in some cases, nine days old. Home refrigerators cannot do this, mostly because home refrigerators run warmer than commercial coolers and the doors are opened and closed too often to maintain fixed temperatures. That is the reason why I cited the three-day PJ clone dough.

    As for same day PJ clone doughs, I cited a few in the post at Reply 31 at https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=6758.msg60076#msg60076 and at Reply 35 at https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=6758.msg60197#msg60197. I also gave an emergency dough version at Reply 52 at https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=6758.msg66312#msg66312. None of the foregoing PJ clone doughs is made by PJ. Only the first one at Reply 2 or some close version of it.

    As for the Internet PJ dough formulation you found at http://mobile.pizzarecipes101.com/pizzeria/papa-johns-pizza-recipe.htm, I came across that recipe during my research but did not believe it. The only people who know the recipe in the PJ universe are the people at the commissaries, and they do not work with volume recipes and distribute that information to store employees. It is by design and intention that the store workers know as little as possible about the PJ dough. Their job is just to assemble pizzas. As for the recipe itself, I believe that the hydration is too high and that the amount of IDY, at about 1.9%, is also too high. The amounts of sugar an oil are also high but that is typical of a PJ dough. But the dough itself is an emergency dough, and PJ does not make such a dough for use in its stores.

    Peter

    Thanks! What I am confused about is which one will get me closest to Papa Johns crust? If I need to make the dough and leave it in the fridge for 3 days that is fine just need to know which one it is. If I can make it and eat it instantly that is better, but I want the proper PJ experience so happy to wait. I am confused because the links above didn't specify how long you leave it in the fridge (or maybe I misread/understood something).
  • #9 by Pete-zza on 05 Oct 2017
  • Thanks! What I am confused about is which one will get me closest to Papa Johns crust? If I need to make the dough and leave it in the fridge for 3 days that is fine just need to know which one it is. If I can make it and eat it instantly that is better, but I want the proper PJ experience so happy to wait. I am confused because the links above didn't specify how long you leave it in the fridge (or maybe I misread/understood something).
    dinogoesrawr,

    Now I think I see the source of some of your confusion. When I mentioned the PJ clone dough formulation at Reply 20 at https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=6758.msg59217#msg59217, I meant to say that that formulation was for a two-day dough rather than a three-day dough. I confused myself because I came up with a three-day version for another member at Reply 585 at https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=6758.msg273667#msg273667. That version would use 0.25% IDY. The instructions for making this later version would be the same as set forth in Reply 20.

    The version I came up with that was intended to come closest to a real PJ dough is the one set forth at Reply 2 at https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=6758.msg58197#msg58197. However, that version is the one that is hardest for most people to make using a standard home refrigerator that gets a lot of in-and-out traffic during the course of a day. That is one of the reasons I came up with faster versions.

    In developing this thread, I tried to be very specific about my PJ clone dough formulations. So, my posts are very detailed, even more than you would get in a cookbook. As much as possible, I also tried to report on successful results, and exclude things that I did that failed, even though studying failures is a good way (actually the best way) to learn how to produce successes. But that can require someone to spend a lot of time keeping up with the thread.

    FYI, I also developed a thread for PJ clone sauces, at https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=6633.msg56931#msg56931. However, I do not know if you have the types of tomatoes in the UK to take best advantage of the clone sauces I wrote about.

    I hope I have clarified everything for you.

    Peter
  • #10 by csnack on 05 Oct 2017
  • Thanks! What I am confused about is which one will get me closest to Papa Johns crust? If I need to make the dough and leave it in the fridge for 3 days that is fine just need to know which one it is. If I can make it and eat it instantly that is better, but I want the proper PJ experience so happy to wait. I am confused because the links above didn't specify how long you leave it in the fridge (or maybe I misread/understood something).
    Pete recently told me that the version of this dough that he felt was most representative of a PJ pizza was the version at the beginning of this thread - and that was an 8-day cold fermented dough.
    Never make the dough and eat it right away if you want a good tasting dough. If you eat it right away w/o allowing any flavor to develop from the fermentation it'll probably taste like a boring and bland store brand hotdog bun, i.e. tasteless.
  • #11 by csnack on 05 Oct 2017
  • Pete recently told me that the version of this dough that he felt was most representative of a PJ pizza was the version at the beginning of this thread - and that was an 8-day cold fermented dough.
    Never make the dough and eat it right away if you want a good tasting dough. If you eat it right away w/o allowing any flavor to develop from the fermentation it'll probably taste like a boring and bland store brand hotdog bun, i.e. tasteless.
    Lol Pete got to you first
  • #12 by dinogoesrawr on 06 Oct 2017
  • Oh so you have to make  the dough and leave it in the fridge for days before using it? I thought it would get spoilt? I tried it tonight and the pizza looked terrible (very thin base and not nice at all).

    The pizza hut recipie is make and eat on the same day therefore got thrown off.
  • #13 by Pete-zza on 06 Oct 2017
  • Oh so you have to make  the dough and leave it in the fridge for days before using it? I thought it would get spoilt? I tried it tonight and the pizza looked terrible (very thin base and not nice at all).

    The pizza hut recipie is make and eat on the same day therefore got thrown off.
    dinogoesrawr,

    Yes. You have to refrigerate the dough if you are after something that is like what PJ does. I have make and refrigerated doughs (but not a PJ clone dough) for over three weeks.

    Peter
  • #14 by csnack on 06 Oct 2017
  • Oh so you have to make  the dough and leave it in the fridge for days before using it? I thought it would get spoilt? I tried it tonight and the pizza looked terrible (very thin base and not nice at all).

    The pizza hut recipie is make and eat on the same day therefore got thrown off.
    You can certainly make a dough and eat it the same day and end up with a good tasting dough, but if immediately after mixing the dough you go and make it into a pizza - which seemed to be part of what you were asking about - the dough will have no real flavor.
    I'm pretty sure that original Pizza Hut clone on here was a 24 cold fermented dough and that was <i>after</i> it sat at room temperature for a few hours (or however long it took the dough to fill the pan), though some guys later may have skipped the cold ferment part and just used the dough a few hours later once it filled the pan, which is fine. Different and (subjectively) better flavor profiles are achieved through various fermentation periods and methods and you can read a ton about that on here. Feel free to post and describe whatever dough issues or questions you may have in other places as well, such as the "General Pizza Making" section, where you'll get even more visibility/folks willing to help.
  • #15 by Qapla on 06 Oct 2017
  • Back in the early 70's I worked for Pizza Inn. At the time I started with them, thin/cracker crust was the only dough they had.

    The dough had a 12-24 hour room temp bulk ferment in a food-grade Rubbermaid barrel with the lid pressed on but not airtight.

    At that time, Pizza Hut also only had the thin crust (at least they did around here) and what I heard from a manager I knew, they did the same thing we did.

    Back then, there was no Pappa John's since they first started in 1984
  • #16 by dinogoesrawr on 07 Oct 2017
  • dinogoesrawr,

    Now I think I see the source of some of your confusion. When I mentioned the PJ clone dough formulation at Reply 20 at https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=6758.msg59217#msg59217, I meant to say that that formulation was for a two-day dough rather than a three-day dough. I confused myself because I came up with a three-day version for another member at Reply 585 at https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=6758.msg273667#msg273667. That version would use 0.25% IDY. The instructions for making this later version would be the same as set forth in Reply 20.

    The version I came up with that was intended to come closest to a real PJ dough is the one set forth at Reply 2 at https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=6758.msg58197#msg58197. However, that version is the one that is hardest for most people to make using a standard home refrigerator that gets a lot of in-and-out traffic during the course of a day. That is one of the reasons I came up with faster versions.

    In developing this thread, I tried to be very specific about my PJ clone dough formulations. So, my posts are very detailed, even more than you would get in a cookbook. As much as possible, I also tried to report on successful results, and exclude things that I did that failed, even though studying failures is a good way (actually the best way) to learn how to produce successes. But that can require someone to spend a lot of time keeping up with the thread.

    FYI, I also developed a thread for PJ clone sauces, at https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=6633.msg56931#msg56931. However, I do not know if you have the types of tomatoes in the UK to take best advantage of the clone sauces I wrote about.

    I hope I have clarified everything for you.

    Peter

    I re-read this and am still a bit confused actually.
     
    When you say two-day dough do you mean make the dough, leave in the fridge for 2 days, then roll out?

    On several websites I have seen them roll the dough, fork the dough, bake. On other instructions I see just to roll. On others I see to flatten by hand. I am getting very confused what is the exact recipie I should follow here.

    In the UK we have dried active yeast (https://groceries.morrisons.com/webshop/product/Allinson-Dried-Active-Yeast-Tin/268053011?from=search&tags=%7C105651&param=yeast&parentContainer=SEARCHyeast) and dried instant yeast (https://groceries.morrisons.com/webshop/product/Allinson-Easy-Bake-Yeast-Tin/294096011?from=search&tags=%7C105651&param=yeast&parentContainer=SEARCHyeast). For the pizza hut recipie I used the derived active yeast and it turned out good. In this one I tried with both and both failed. What is correct here?

    I also saw honey in the recipie, others I saw sugar. Very confused here, but really wanting to make this as your pics looks awesome. Can you please help me?
  • #17 by Pete-zza on 07 Oct 2017
  • I re-read this and am still a bit confused actually.
     
    When you say two-day dough do you mean make the dough, leave in the fridge for 2 days, then roll out?

    On several websites I have seen them roll the dough, fork the dough, bake. On other instructions I see just to roll. On others I see to flatten by hand. I am getting very confused what is the exact recipie I should follow here.

    In the UK we have dried active yeast (https://groceries.morrisons.com/webshop/product/Allinson-Dried-Active-Yeast-Tin/268053011?from=search&tags=%7C105651&param=yeast&parentContainer=SEARCHyeast) and dried instant yeast (https://groceries.morrisons.com/webshop/product/Allinson-Easy-Bake-Yeast-Tin/294096011?from=search&tags=%7C105651&param=yeast&parentContainer=SEARCHyeast). For the pizza hut recipie I used the derived active yeast and it turned out good. In this one I tried with both and both failed. What is correct here?

    I also saw honey in the recipie, others I saw sugar. Very confused here, but really wanting to make this as your pics looks awesome. Can you please help me?
    dibogoesrawr,

    This is my advice: Read Reply 20 at https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=6758.msg59217#msg59217, and do everything it says to do within the best of your ability and the ingredients and equipment you have at your disposal. Don't read or do anything else, and don't worry about honey or any other websites or anything else. Just stay within the confines of Reply 20. And don't change it because of something else you may have read.

    As for the two yeast forms, the one you want to use is the one at https://groceries.morrisons.com/webshop/product/Allinson-Easy-Bake-Yeast-Tin/294096011?from=search&tags=%7C105651&param=yeast&parentContainer=SEARCHyeast.

    Peter
  • #18 by dinogoesrawr on 12 Oct 2017
  • dibogoesrawr,

    This is my advice: Read Reply 20 at https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=6758.msg59217#msg59217, and do everything it says to do within the best of your ability and the ingredients and equipment you have at your disposal. Don't read or do anything else, and don't worry about honey or any other websites or anything else. Just stay within the confines of Reply 20. And don't change it because of something else you may have read.

    As for the two yeast forms, the one you want to use is the one at https://groceries.morrisons.com/webshop/product/Allinson-Easy-Bake-Yeast-Tin/294096011?from=search&tags=%7C105651&param=yeast&parentContainer=SEARCHyeast.

    Peter

    Ah I used the wrong yeast before. Trying reply 20 this week. Made the dough will know how it turns out tomorrow. :)
  • #19 by dinogoesrawr on 14 Oct 2017
  • dibogoesrawr,

    This is my advice: Read Reply 20 at https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=6758.msg59217#msg59217, and do everything it says to do within the best of your ability and the ingredients and equipment you have at your disposal. Don't read or do anything else, and don't worry about honey or any other websites or anything else. Just stay within the confines of Reply 20. And don't change it because of something else you may have read.

    As for the two yeast forms, the one you want to use is the one at https://groceries.morrisons.com/webshop/product/Allinson-Easy-Bake-Yeast-Tin/294096011?from=search&tags=%7C105651&param=yeast&parentContainer=SEARCHyeast.

    Peter

    Followed the instructions to the letter with a very bad resulting dough. Not sure how it went so wrong.... can post a pic if it helps?
  • #20 by Pete-zza on 14 Oct 2017
  • Followed the instructions to the letter with a very bad resulting dough. Not sure how it went so wrong.... can post a pic if it helps?
    dinogoesrawr,

    Please do. And can you tell us what flour and yeast you used, and any other details that you think might help? I assume you weighed the ingredients.

    Peter
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