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Prep Equipment / Re: New custom countertop Fork mixer
« Last post by 02ebz06 on Today at 04:16:59 PM »

Look like that crate would make a pretty sturdy dog house.  ;D


Or good firewood for the pizza oven,  :-D
Neapolitan Style / Re: The Doughs of My Life
« Last post by Icelandr on Today at 04:11:57 PM »
Sorry Arne if I am encroaching . . . . The idea did come from you!

Pete-zza, here was the mention in my thread, if you want further info, pictures sources, let me know

Those news stories say 2019. Old news.

Dough Clinic / Re: Over-kneaded or under-kneaded?
« Last post by splangerdanger on Today at 04:08:31 PM »
A formulation would be good to see and not sure what you mean by shut it off and allowed to bulk ferment  - are you doing a same day dough or cold fermenting, what's the process?

My 2 cents.

Start with 25 lbs flour as opposed to making a 50 lbs batch - don't know percentages here as this is no formulation to look at. Idea is to reduce the batch size to something more manageable.  Do the same process with starter in upfront, mix on low (1) for 6 minutes, this is plenty to get a good mix.  Let rest for 10 minutes as opposed to 30 (start there) in the bowl, don't know what the temp is in your friends shop. When done, on low for 1 minute SLOWLEY add the oil to the center of the batch, don't pour it in all at one and not to down the sides of the bowl, get to the center best you can.  When done, switch to medium (2) and go for another 7 minutes (ish) you need to watch it during this time, can be less, or more time, you want the smooth silky shine and can test at various stages.  Any left over oil should incorporate a few minutes into this mixing stage.   Get the right water temps so your dough is coming out at the right temp.

Ball and cold ferment.

Thanks for the response, and great idea! I will leave my dough recipe and process below for y'all to scope out and review. Percentages are on the left, and the numbers to the right of each ingredient is weight in grams. Appreciate you giving a process as well. Now, I'm wondering if I under-kneaded the dough.. But I did try kneaded a ball after I balled up though dough, to see if it would help bring it together but it just turned to a weak, stick, and sloppy mess of a ball. Anyways, hope the info below helps you to understand the process I used!

Pizza Dough Calculator      
Dough Balls      70
Ball Weight      300
100%   Flour   12388
90%   CM Type 00   11149
10%   Whole Wheat   1239
61%   Water   7556
11%   Starter   1363
3%   Salt   372
3%   Olive Oil   372
5%   (Dough Loss)   0.05
Total Dough Weight      22050

Step 1.
Whisk flours together in mixing bowl and set aside.
Whisk Starter and water together in separate cambro. 
Add water/starter mixture to flour and mix until incorporated (3-4 mins).
Rest 30 mins (autolyse)

Step 2.
Add oil and salt to dough mixture.
Mix to incorporate.
Mix on speed 1 for 7 mins —> Bulk Ferment.

Step 3.
Bulk ferment for 3 hours.(4 sets of stretch and folds during first two hours)

Step 4.
Ball dough and proof.
Proof -1hr room temp.

Step 6.
Refrigerate 48 hours.

Step 7.
Pull dough from fridge, temper, and bake.
Those news stories say 2019. Old news.
Dough Clinic / Re: Over-kneaded or under-kneaded?
« Last post by splangerdanger on Today at 04:00:55 PM »
No worries. In a purely commercial environment, you develop gluten in the mixer, no stretch and folds are used.

Stand (planetary) mixers are quite aggressive to dough, as they don't develop gluten as efficiently as spiral or oblique mixers. The longer machine time needed usually translates into higher dough temperatures, less flavor as dough is more oxydized, and less open crumbs.  They are therefore sparingly used in a quality oriented commercial setup.

However, in the circumstances you describe, I'd just use the mixer to full gluten development and move forward until you're comfortable with the whole process. Do make sure you use cold water to end up with an adequate dough temperature.

Yes, you'll need to step up to second speed to develop gluten within a reasonable time frame. I'm not familiar with the Hobart (or your flour) but I'd say something around  3-5 minutes in first and 8-12 minutes in second should get you there. Time on second should be shorter if you autolyse. Do check your temperatures and do use cold water. If room temperature is around 75 F, use cold water at around 37-40 F. Shoot at a dough temperature around 75-78 F at the end of the process.

One more thing, adding oil towards the END of the whole process will help develop gluten faster while keeping dough temperature in check. Oil interferes with gluten creation, by displacing water and coating flour particles. Water is needed (big shortcut here) to help create the chemical bonds between the 2 different flour proteins that create the gluten strands.

Hope this helps.

Thanks so much! So, I think I am going to mix the four, water, and starter first in the planetary mixer on the lowest speed just until incorporated and let it rest for 30 minutes. Then I'm planning on adding the oil and salt together, mixing on the lowest speed until incorporated, and then bumping up to speed 2 until smooth and I can get a decent windowpane. I will definitely begin with cold water this time to offset the increase in temp due to friction from mixing, and will also bring a thermometer to keep track of the final dough temp. Also, think I'll kick the stretch and folds to the curb and use the first two hours of bulk ferment to work on other prep to maximize efficiency in the kitchen.

When making smaller batches at home, the 3% oil has given me zero complications in terms of gluten development, so I'm thinking adding it in here with the larger batch should be fine as well. I will say, the dough did feel a LOT better after a 48-hour cold-proof. Although still not as good as my normal home batches–the closest pic I have to a crumb photo is attached for reference.

Again, can't thank you enough for the helpful response! I will definitely post back here after my next commercial dough trial!
Off-Topic Foods / Re: Today's Bread
« Last post by Papa T on Today at 03:57:31 PM »
Gorgeous loaf, Papa T. Bet it tasted even better than it looks.

I appreciate. The flavor of true sourdough is something that can only achieved the old fashioned way. The first bite of this bread took me back to 1975. Then I had to dig out my old lava lamp and my "The Captain and Me" Doobie Brothers vinyl album, LMAO!
Prep Equipment / Re: New custom countertop Fork mixer
« Last post by loch on Today at 03:53:40 PM »
Congrats on that beautiful mixer! I look forward to hearing how you like the dough it produces.

Look like that crate would make a pretty sturdy dog house.  ;D

Off-Topic Foods / Re: Today's Bread
« Last post by Papa T on Today at 03:50:28 PM »
I am impressed. That bread looks fantastic! Looks like nothing forgotten in 40 years.

I appreciate the kind words. Once you get the technique and process down, it sticks with you like riding a bicycle.

The hardest thing to learn in making sourdough anything is patience. It takes time for the starter to do its thing. Those that start anew tend to rush the dough, so it doesn't come out like they expected. They're used to commercial yeasts that work much faster than a dough with a sourdough starter inoculation. Sourdough takes time.

The dough for this bread bulk fermented for about 8 hours at RT to rise about double. Then I shaped it into form for the banneton and was done with it for the day, so I put it in a ziplock bag and put it in the fridge for the night. The next day, I took it out and let it sit on the counter to warm up and then rise. After about 6 hours I preheated the oven with a lidded cast iron dutch oven inside. Once hot, in went the dough.

Bake was 35 minutes, then lid off for another 10 to get color and crisp. The bread is fully baked at 30-35 minutes, so once the lid is taken off, continue baking to the desired color. Some like it lighter, others much darker. When I checked the internal temp after 35 minutes, it was 197F. Bread is done at 190, and don't get too close to 212F or you'll be making a lot of breadcrumbs.

A semi-pro tip, don't bake your sourdough or conventional yeast boule breads at 500-550F, which seems to be the modern bent. Bread doesn't do that well baking that hot. Baking breads like this one at 450F is where it's at. Even 425F will work. Either temp provides better spring and better bake. Also, verify your oven temp. Set it to 450F with an oven thermometer on the rack/stone you will use. Come back and check it in 30 minutes and see what the thermometer says verses the oven dial. If off, figure out what dial setting gives you 450F and use that setting for future bakes.

Being patient with the dough, and getting the oven temp on point will deliver consistent and expected results. For those starting new, begin with 60% hydration doughs, 20% sourdough starter based on the recipe flour weight (the starter will add another couple percent hydration), 2% salt, and get the process well in hand. Then move on to higher hydration doughs and other dough variants once you have the process down.
Neapolitan Style / Re: Pizza's made on the Spice Caliente (modified)
« Last post by Antomike on Today at 03:45:28 PM »
looks good! any pics of the oven?
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