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Author Topic: Freezing Pizza dough  (Read 1371 times)

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Offline Apone

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Freezing Pizza dough
« on: February 03, 2017, 06:05:43 AM »
Hi there,

based on my recent google search it seems possible to freaze pizza dogh isn't it?
Does this have any affects regarding the rising of the dough during baking later?

What about sourdough based dough?
If I store my sourdogh cold it goes in a sleeping state and needs to be fed multiple times before it can be used again.
What happens to a sourdough pizza dough in a freezer?

How to proceed when freezing the pizza?
My actual recipe says kneeding, resting, kneeding, resting and the resting in the fridge for minimum 24hrs.
If I want to put it in the freezer: in which step should I do so?
What to do after I take it off the freezer?

Thanks in advance!




Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Freezing Pizza dough
« Reply #1 on: February 03, 2017, 07:30:16 AM »
Apone,

To better help Tom, can you post your recipe? And are you making the frozen dough for home use?

Peter

Offline Apone

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Re: Freezing Pizza dough
« Reply #2 on: February 03, 2017, 10:15:56 AM »
Hi Peter,

I make it based on http://www.varasanos.com/pizzarecipe.htm.
My ingredients per Pie are:
110g water
168 gr typo 00 flour
normalyy 15 g sourdough culture (prepared by feeding my starter first) - but I take almost the double - so ca. 30g
6g salt
sometimes 0,5 g dry yeast

Its for home use. Would be nice if I can prepare some more and freeze it.

Thanks!

Offline The Dough Doctor

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Re: Freezing Pizza dough
« Reply #3 on: February 03, 2017, 09:25:02 PM »
Peter;
Didn't we just have some discussion on freezing pizza dough?
If you could work your magic again it might set the stage for further discussion.
Thanks,
Tom Lehmann/The Dough Doctor

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Freezing Pizza dough
« Reply #4 on: February 03, 2017, 09:45:05 PM »
Tom,

We have a lot of information on the forum about freezing dough but not for naturally leavened dough. The Varasano dough recipe that Apone cited calls for just under 9% starter, in a poolish form. IDY is optional and, when used, comes to about 0.30%. I can see that a dough with both leavening systems might be capable of freezing--possibly with some increases in quantities--but I have some doubts whether a dough with only 9% natural starter can be effectively frozen. I was hoping that you might have had some experience or knowledge on that point.

Peter

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Offline The Dough Doctor

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Re: Freezing Pizza dough
« Reply #5 on: February 03, 2017, 11:10:19 PM »
Peter and Apone;
I agree, with a little baker's yeast added it might be done effectively, but let's go out on a limb here and try something that we have done with S.F. sourdough, go ahead and produce your dough just as you normally do but when it comes time to dress the skin place it on a piece of parchment paper and very lightly brush with oil, then set it aside to proof/rise for 30-minutes, then place the skin into the freezer, taking care to place it on a board or cardboard circle to keep it flat. After the skin has been completely frozen wrap in stretch film and let's see if it can be held for up to 10-days, maybe a little more. To use the frozen skin remove from freezer, unwrap and place onto a piece of parchment paper which will allow you to easily move the slacked-out (thawed) dough skin. Cover the frozen skin with a large bowl or cardboard box to help keep it from drying out (the oil that you put on the dough earlier will help in this respect, the bowl or box will keep drafts away from the skin while it is thawing. Due to the cross section dimension it won't take too long for the dough to slack-out, as soon as it is slacked-out dress and bake the skin in your normal manner. The reason why we allow the skin to proof/rise between forming and freezing is to give the dough some height to make-up for the oven spring that will most likely be less than normal (this is somewhat like a pre-proofed frozen dough skin (think Freschetta Pizzas). Please keep us informed on your results.
Tom Lehmann/The Dough Doctor

Offline Apone

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Re: Freezing Pizza dough
« Reply #6 on: February 06, 2017, 03:34:09 AM »
Hi Tom,

Thank your for the feedback.
Yesterday I prepared 6 balls and they are now in the fridge for cold fermentation.
I will use 1-2 for freezing and inform you about different results after I baked the non-freezed and the freezed ones.

Juts for my understanding: it seems for me that dough made of baker's yeast is better suitable for freezing compared with sourdough based dough (without addit. yeast)?

Is there a dough recipe which is ideal for freezing?
And how long can such a dogh beeing freezed?

Best Regards

Offline The Dough Doctor

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Re: Freezing Pizza dough
« Reply #7 on: February 06, 2017, 12:57:17 PM »
You are correct that doughs made using bakers yeast are better suited to freezing than those made using a sourdough. When dealing with the conditions encountered in home freezing of dough there is no one dough formula better suited to freezing than any other one. As a general rule the only change to a dough formula that will be subjected to home freezing is to increase the yeast level by approximately 50%, the exact amount of increase will need to be determined through experimentation with your specific dough formulation.
Tom Lehmann/The Dough Doctor

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Freezing Pizza dough
« Reply #8 on: February 06, 2017, 02:21:58 PM »
Apone,

The subject of freezing dough comes up frequently on the forum. I, myself, have posted on the subject of freezing dough many times. So, if you do an Advanced forum search using the terms "freezing dough Peter" (without the quotes), you will get 100 hits. There are perhaps more than 100 hits but the forum's search feature sometimes limits the number of hits at 100 when the search terms are few and of a general nature. Not all of the hits will directly apply to what you are looking for but you will quickly find the relevant ones as you scan the results of the search. To cite a couple of examples to get you going, see the thread at https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=29884.msg299011#msg299011 (and especially Reply 4), the thread at https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=20880.msg208745#msg208745, and the thread at https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=43169.msg432146#msg432146. Of course, you can narrow the search any way you want to find answers to specific concerns.

Peter

Offline Brent-r

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Re: Freezing Pizza dough
« Reply #9 on: November 18, 2017, 10:20:08 PM »
In Ed Woods book Classic Sourdoughs, he says that sourdough cultures should not be frozen because some of the wild yeast may not survive.  He is a supplier of many sourdough cultures that other members here use and seem to like ( www.sourdo.com ) .    We are waiting for our first order of Italian starter from him.

I have been using an Italian culture from Culture Mother (http://www.culturemother.ca/store/c3/Sourdough_Starters.html) and have only frozen a couple of balls and they thawed and rose up pretty well but I have not repeated this enough times to say it "really works" with any confidence.
Brent

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Offline QwertyJuan

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Re: Freezing Pizza dough
« Reply #10 on: November 18, 2017, 11:23:57 PM »
I know a friend of mine that works for a pizza place that makes AMAZING pizza and ALL their dough is frozen. They make it, ball it then freeze it. NO idea what kind of yeast they are using though. I just know the pizza is crazy good.

Offline The Dough Doctor

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Re: Freezing Pizza dough
« Reply #11 on: January 18, 2018, 12:20:02 PM »
And don't forget that a lot of the success with frozen dough depends upon how long the dough is frozen. Assuming that the dough is slow/static frozen with the temperature range of +10 to -10F the dough will exhibit a frozen shelf life of 10 to 15-days during which it will produce acceptably consistent performance characteristics, with storage times beyond that performance becomes spotty and inconsistent at best. In oredr to achieve maximum frozen shelf life (12 to 21-weeks) the dough must be blast frozen either mechanically (-20 to -35F) or cryogenically using an industrial cryogen gas such as liquid carbon dioxide or nitrogen (-50 to -65F). The lower freezing temperatures allow for the development of a smaller ice crystal size within the yeast cells which is less damaging to the cells. In a home setting we also have to take into account the impact of freeze-thaw which is induced by the frost-free feature of our 5-star energy rated freezer. The effect of constant freeze-thaw (as many as 24-cycles in a 24-hour period) is extremely deleterious to the viability of the yeast in a dough after frozen storage.
Tom Lehmann/The Dough Doctor

Offline GoatGuy

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Re: Freezing Pizza dough
« Reply #12 on: January 21, 2018, 05:18:41 PM »
The Dough Doctor

Yes - normal freezing is deleterious to yeasts due to ice-crystal size and rupturing their cells.  It is however a kind of "numbers game":   you will lose from 50% to 85% of the cells using commercial "normal" freezers.  Not blast freezers.  The simple solution is to figure out how well your thawed dough works, then up the yeast to account for the inevitable loss-in-freezing, during mixing.  Dissolved sugars: malt, etc., also help reawaken the thawed yeast. 

In my experiments, I found that 250% of a recipe's yeast load was needed to give viable dough 10 days after being non-blast frozen. 

My experience, anyway.

GoatGuy

Offline The Dough Doctor

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Re: Freezing Pizza dough
« Reply #13 on: January 22, 2018, 01:16:37 PM »
Actually, the more sugar you can add to a dough that is to be frozen the better the dough will be. This is because both salt and sugars are solubles which depress the freezing point of water which helps to mitigate some of the ice crystal damage to the yeast cells. It is not just a number game though, remember, all of those damaged yeast cells will be releasing the glutathione contained within each cell, this glutathione will act on the protein to weaken the dough much like L-cysteine (PZ-44) does. This is even available commercially and is known as "dead yeast aka RS-190)". This weakening of the dough by the glutathione is addressed, in a commercially frozen dough through the addition of oxidation to the dough which is usually in the form of micro-encapsulated ascorbic acid, azodicarbonamide, potassium bromate (though not very well accepted by consumers) and bromate substitutes/replacers which are far more consumer friendly.
Tom Lehmann/The Dough Doctor

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