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Author Topic: Real vs. Fake San Marzano Tomatoes  (Read 1928 times)

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Offline norma427

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Re: Real vs. Fake San Marzano Tomatoes
« Reply #20 on: June 23, 2017, 09:23:11 AM »
If it fruits well, it should taste how your particular marzano strain is meant to taste.   A different soil will not change it's genetic characteristics like a Marzano will never taste super sweet no matter what you do.    I took NJ hybrid Super Fantastic seeds and planted in my CA home in past, they taste exactly the same as they do in the Northeast. 

My neighbor often asked me how my tomatoes grow so nice and taste so sweet, and asked me what fertilizer I used, I just told him I did nothing but water them,  that they were simply hybrid Jersey tomatoes.

HarryHaller73,

Thanks for telling me that my San Marzano should taste like the strain it is.  Since I don't really know what strain they are the might not be the best.

I wonder why when I plant the Jet Star seeds the tomatoes never have tasted exactly like the ones grown in Washington Boro.  I have tried for pretty many years to get them to taste the same.

Interesting that you took NJ hybrid Super Fantastic seeds and planted them in your CA home and they taste exactly the same as they do in the Northeast.

All I do is water them too and add no fertilizer.

Norma

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Re: Real vs. Fake San Marzano Tomatoes
« Reply #21 on: June 23, 2017, 09:24:57 AM »
Norma,

I might add that Texas has its own terroir. For example, some of the finest cantaloupe I have ever had comes from the Pecos County area of Texas. Geographically, Pecos County is south of New Mexico and not far from the border of Mexico. Cantaloupe requires a lot of growing space and long hot summer days, which Pecos County offers in spades. Also cantaloupe requires soil that is sand or sand/loam that is deep and well nourished.  And the soil naturally contains potassium, which apparently is good for growing cantaloupes. In addition, the water used to irrigate the crops contains magnesium and calcium salts. Whether it is genetics or terroir or good nutrients, or some combination of these factors, the cantaloupes from Pecos County are prized for their quality. In my case, in summer at harvest time I look for the Pecos cantaloupes in the supermarkets near me but there have been years where they did not make to the supermarkets where I shop.

To draw a comparison, when I first moved to Texas and travelled throughout the state, I would sometimes stop at roadside fruit and vegetable stands and buy cantaloupes. They were invariably of much lower quality than the Pecos cantaloupes. I think a good part of it has to do with the soil. Much of Texas has heavy clay soils, and from what I have read cantaloupe does not do well in that type of soil. I did a search and saw that it is possible to buy cantaloupe seeds from Pecos County but if the plants are to be grown where the soil is not the same as or as good as the Pecos County soil, the results may not be the same.

Peter

Offline norma427

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Re: Real vs. Fake San Marzano Tomatoes
« Reply #22 on: June 23, 2017, 09:40:40 AM »
Norma,

I might add that Texas has its own terroir. For example, some of the finest cantaloupe I have ever had comes from the Pecos County area of Texas. Geographically, Pecos County is south of New Mexico and not far from the border of Mexico. Cantaloupe requires a lot of growing space and long hot summer days, which Pecos County offers in spades. Also cantaloupe requires soil that is sand or sand/loam that is deep and well nourished.  And the soil naturally contains potassium, which apparently is good for growing cantaloupes. In addition, the water used to irrigate the crops contains magnesium and calcium salts. Whether it is genetics or terroir or good nutrients, or some combination of these factors, the cantaloupes from Pecos County are prized for their quality. In my case, in summer at harvest time I look for the Pecos cantaloupes in the supermarkets near me but there have been years where they did not make to the supermarkets where I shop.

To draw a comparison, when I first moved to Texas and travelled throughout the state, I would sometimes stop at roadside fruit and vegetable stands and buy cantaloupes. They were invariably of much lower quality than the Pecos cantaloupes. I think a good part of it has to do with the soil. Much of Texas has heavy clay soils, and from what I have read cantaloupe does not do well in that type of soil. I did a search and saw that it is possible to buy cantaloupe seeds from Pecos County but if the plants are to be grown where the soil is not the same as or as good as the Pecos County soil, the results may not be the same.

Peter

Peter,

Interesting that you told me about Texas and it having its own terroir, and some of the finest cantaloupes you have ever had comes from Pecos County area of Texas. 

Since I have never tasted those cantaloupes to know what they tasted like, there is no way I can compare them to what is grown in Lancaster County or New Jersey. There is somewhat of an interesting comparison to the cantaloupes that come from farms in our area and from New Jersey.  For my tastes both are the same even though the cantaloupes grown in New Jersey are grown in sandy soil and most of the soil in Lancaster County is not sandy.  Even cantaloupes from Washington Boro taste the same and their soil is rather sandy.

Norma   

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Re: Real vs. Fake San Marzano Tomatoes
« Reply #23 on: June 27, 2017, 01:15:24 AM »
Norma,


I wish you well with your experiment and harves. I put about 25 SM plants in about 10 years ago and found them difficult to grow all the way to ripen. It was a tough year, though, for drought. I watered them out of a 200 gallon tank I have but it's not the same as rain. Sounds like your plants may be indeterminate since they are larger than you expected by this time. That's fine if you only need a few at a time. For canning a bunch at one time, determinate plants are easier to deal with.


I agree with Harry on genetics to a large extent but an old saying I like is "genetics loads the gun, environment pulls the trigger."
-Tony
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Offline foreplease

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Re: Real vs. Fake San Marzano Tomatoes
« Reply #24 on: June 27, 2017, 01:18:26 AM »
Vidalia onions are another example of "it's not always what it seems." I talked to a grower in Vidalia, GA many years ago. He was complaining that sweet onions are grown all over the south and that all you needed to do to qualify for the Vidalia sticker is have a PO Box at the Vidalia Post Office, not necessarily any land.
-Tony
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Offline norma427

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Re: Real vs. Fake San Marzano Tomatoes
« Reply #25 on: June 27, 2017, 06:42:57 AM »
Norma,


I wish you well with your experiment and harves. I put about 25 SM plants in about 10 years ago and found them difficult to grow all the way to ripen. It was a tough year, though, for drought. I watered them out of a 200 gallon tank I have but it's not the same as rain. Sounds like your plants may be indeterminate since they are larger than you expected by this time. That's fine if you only need a few at a time. For canning a bunch at one time, determinate plants are easier to deal with.


I agree with Harry on genetics to a large extent but an old saying I like is "genetics loads the gun, environment pulls the trigger."

Tony,

Thanks for the wishes for a good harvest!  Wow, 25 San Marzano tomato plants is a lot to grow at one time.  Did you ever try anymore San Marzano's after that?

I am not sure if the SM tomato plant is indeterminate.  We had a somewhat mild winter and I could plant the San Marzano plant earlier than usual and we had plenty of rain.  Yesterday I had to water them and will if it doesn't rain much in the future.  Although I am not an experienced tomato grower in many ways find the terms indeterminate and determinate interesting.  Never even heard of those terms before. 

I tend to agree that growing different things any place is like you said.  Environment plays a part.  Even critters like hornworms can botch up any tomato plants.  I had that happen a couple years ago. 

Norma

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Re: Real vs. Fake San Marzano Tomatoes
« Reply #26 on: June 27, 2017, 05:40:57 PM »
Norma, I just looked up what you probably would have found if you looked up determinate and indeterminate. Basically, on determinate plants all the tomatoes get ripe at or very near the same time. Indeterminant yields a longer season with ripe tomatoes over several weeks. Hope this helps.
-Tony
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Re: Real vs. Fake San Marzano Tomatoes
« Reply #27 on: June 27, 2017, 07:53:07 PM »
Also determinate tend to not need staking.
Tom

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Offline norma427

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Re: Real vs. Fake San Marzano Tomatoes
« Reply #28 on: June 27, 2017, 08:41:10 PM »
Norma, I just looked up what you probably would have found if you looked up determinate and indeterminate. Basically, on determinate plants all the tomatoes get ripe at or very near the same time. Indeterminant yields a longer season with ripe tomatoes over several weeks. Hope this helps.

Tony,

Yes, that does help.  Thanks!
Also determinate tend to not need staking.

Thanks steelplayer!

Norma

Offline norma427

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Re: Real vs. Fake San Marzano Tomatoes
« Reply #29 on: July 03, 2017, 08:07:34 AM »
The DOP San Marzano tomatoes purchased at the Eataly and some of my San Marzano's from yesterday.  Hope mine grow something like the ones at Eataly.

Norma

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Offline quietdesperation

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Re: Real vs. Fake San Marzano Tomatoes
« Reply #30 on: July 03, 2017, 10:32:20 AM »
Norma,

  would you mind posting the cost of the can of San Marzano's tomatoes you purchased at Eataly, I might nip on by and pick up a can.  It seems to me Harry is arguing at cross-purposes by stating your terroir won't affect the taste of your tomatoes but noting that tomatoes from san marzano have suffered due to the way the environment changed.

  In any case, there's one thing Harry and I can agree upon: the pronunciation of the word "tomato" differs geographically, even within nyc. Many years ago, while breaking up with a woman that grew up in Queens, I couldn't help but think  "I say tomato, you say tomater" (with apologies to the Gershwin brothers)

  Peter, if you have any more of that foul tasting haut brion darkening your cellar, feel free to send it my way.

best,
« Last Edit: July 03, 2017, 11:01:18 AM by quietdesperation »
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Re: Real vs. Fake San Marzano Tomatoes
« Reply #31 on: July 03, 2017, 11:09:39 AM »
Peter, if you have any more of that foul tasting haut brion darkening your cellar, feel free to send it my way.
QD,

Haha. If I had any left its price would take care of any financial problems I might have :-D.

Peter

Offline norma427

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Re: Real vs. Fake San Marzano Tomatoes
« Reply #32 on: July 03, 2017, 11:38:08 AM »
Norma,

Would you mind posting the cost of the can of San Marzano's tomatoes you purchased at Eataly, I might nip on by and pick up a can.
 

OD,

This is the price for the San Marzanos that I paid at the Eataly.  They were a lot different than other San Marzano tomatoes I tried before.  Even the juice was thicker.  Scott explained that the juice might not be from the same tomatoes in any brand of San Marzano tomatoes.  Didn't think to ask Scott how someone could tell that.

https://www.eataly.com/us_en/pasta-pantry/tomatoes/san-marzano

Norma

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Re: Real vs. Fake San Marzano Tomatoes
« Reply #33 on: July 03, 2017, 12:51:24 PM »
Holy cow those are some spendy maters Norma! They seem to be pretty well regarded though, saw those Gustarosso in this vid I watched the other day.



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Re: Real vs. Fake San Marzano Tomatoes
« Reply #34 on: July 03, 2017, 05:09:59 PM »
Norma, what style of pizza will you make with those tomatoes?

edit: I received an email from scott's tours offering a $10 discount for the eataly tour.  I might give it a go.
« Last Edit: July 03, 2017, 09:04:33 PM by quietdesperation »
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Offline norma427

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Re: Real vs. Fake San Marzano Tomatoes
« Reply #35 on: July 03, 2017, 09:13:50 PM »
Holy cow those are some spendy maters Norma! They seem to be pretty well regarded though, saw those Gustarosso in this vid I watched the other day.

Ryan,

I agree they were some expensive tomatoes, but didn't purchase anything else.  Thanks for the video!  Wonder what that crumb looked like.  Liked the smaller pan too.   8)

Norma

Offline norma427

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Re: Real vs. Fake San Marzano Tomatoes
« Reply #36 on: July 03, 2017, 09:17:50 PM »
Norma, what style of pizza will you make with those tomatoes?

edit: I received an email from scott's tours offering a $10 discount for the eataly tour.  I might give it a go.

QD,

Steve invited me to his place this Saturday for some pizzas in his WFO.  Might see if I can get one of the starters active enough.  I do have some Caputo Pizzeria flour in the freezer.

Cool you already got a discount on a tour.  Let us know what you think if you get to go on the Eataly tour. 

Norma

Offline norma427

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Re: Real vs. Fake San Marzano Tomatoes
« Reply #37 on: July 09, 2017, 08:30:11 AM »
Tried the DOP San Marzano tomatoes from the Eataly last night.  They tasted very fresh out of the can and when food processed into sauce.  When eaten on a pizza though they didn't seem to have anymore flavor then Cento tomatoes.

The San Marzano tomatoes from the Eataly didn't have any hard or green ends though.  They were all bright red through all of the tomatoes.

Norma

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Re: Real vs. Fake San Marzano Tomatoes
« Reply #38 on: July 10, 2017, 08:33:34 PM »
dont think they were worth the $8 or $9 i paid for them at eataly. would you buy them again Norma?

Offline norma427

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Re: Real vs. Fake San Marzano Tomatoes
« Reply #39 on: July 10, 2017, 09:46:05 PM »
dont think they were worth the $8 or $9 i paid for them at eataly. would you buy them again Norma?

pizapizza,

I really don't think they are worth the $6.80 I paid either.  They tasted so fresh and so much better when eaten plain then some other San Marzano's I tried, but something was lost in the bake.  Maybe someone else might like them a lot if they do a different kind of bake.  Gonna try some again tomorrow on a leftover starter NP dough.  Gonna put the dough in a pan, dress with the San Marzano's from the Eataly, and use some cheese and maybe something else.  Not sure how that bake is going to go in a lower temperature oven though.  The dough will already be 4 days old too.

Norma

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