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Author Topic: Relying on manager  (Read 1185 times)

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Offline pizzaboi

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Relying on manager
« on: November 04, 2017, 03:56:23 PM »
What are some reasons for the strong skepticism on relying on manager to run the pizza shop?

If you could grade each reason on scale of 1 to 10 (with 10 being most severe), it would be helpful.

Offline StateofMind

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Re: Relying on manager
« Reply #1 on: November 04, 2017, 04:45:26 PM »
What are some reasons for the strong skepticism on relying on manager to run the pizza shop?

If you could grade each reason on scale of 1 to 10 (with 10 being most severe), it would be helpful.

The best reason is because no one will have your best interest front and center like you do. When you have multiple units you have to delegate and hire managers. When you have one unit looking after yourself will more often than. It be the best choice.

Offline pizzaboi

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Re: Relying on manager
« Reply #2 on: November 04, 2017, 05:00:57 PM »
The best reason is because no one will have your best interest front and center like you do. When you have multiple units you have to delegate and hire managers. When you have one unit looking after yourself will more often than. It be the best choice.
Thank you, StateofMind.

Are there any specific examples to illustrate the "no one will have best interest..." sentiment?

Just trying to wrap my head around and envision it.

Also what is the definition of being a "hands-on owner" ? How many hours a day does one need to work/what duties does one need to do, to qualify as being a hands-on owner?



Offline hammettjr

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Re: Relying on manager
« Reply #3 on: November 04, 2017, 05:18:02 PM »
I don't have the experience and can't explain it, but the fact that pizzeria owners work long hours running the shop themselves tells me all I need to know. If it were so simple to hire someone and just sit back and collect the profits, everyone would be doing it.

Matt

Offline pizzaboi

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Re: Relying on manager
« Reply #4 on: November 04, 2017, 05:22:43 PM »
I don't have the experience and can't explain it, but the fact that pizzeria owners work long hours running the shop themselves tells me all I need to know. If it were so simple to hire someone and just sit back and collect the profits, everyone would be doing it.

I think it also depends on how much money the shop makes to afford to hire a manager and pay them meaningful wage so that they stick around.

Another thing is owner's ability or desire to put systems and processes in place to ensure the shop doesnt revolve around them and can run by itself..


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Offline Essen1

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Re: Relying on manager
« Reply #5 on: November 04, 2017, 06:14:01 PM »
I think it also depends on how much money the shop makes to afford to hire a manager and pay them meaningful wage so that they stick around.

Another thing is owner's ability or desire to put systems and processes in place to ensure the shop doesnt revolve around them and can run by itself..

Then why have a shop in the first place if you're already thinking of hiring a manager before the doors have even opened?

Pizza, at least to me, is about passion and that should be reflected in your shop. People want to see you care about your product with love and passion. Otherwise they might as well go to the next Domino's.
Mike

ďAll styles of pizza are valid. I make the best Iím capable of; you should make the best youíre capable of. I donít want to make somebody elseís pizza.Ē ~ Chris Bianco

Offline pizzaboi

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Re: Relying on manager
« Reply #6 on: November 04, 2017, 07:24:15 PM »
Then why have a shop in the first place if you're already thinking of hiring a manager before the doors have even opened?

Pizza, at least to me, is about passion and that should be reflected in your shop. People want to see you care about your product with love and passion. Otherwise they might as well go to the next Domino's.

I am not opening a new shop, but looking to purchase one.

I am researching into all the options and trying to understand the industry and the business along with others.

Offline waltertore

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Re: Relying on manager
« Reply #7 on: November 04, 2017, 07:40:19 PM »
 I know big names coast to coast who are regarded as the top in artisan pizzas today.  Many of their regular customers  have made it to our shop and a common theme is inconsistent at the big names and consistent at ours and they prefer our pizza.  They almost always ask when we are going to open more shops and or extend our hours/days open and we reply never and explain our reasons - too many headaches ???   We are onsite all hours and involved with all levels of the business.  I open, dress, bake, every pizza.  This ensures consistency.  We suffer in the $ sense because more could be made if we followed the model of today but I was raised in the old school small mom and pop model.  People love this concept as it is dying fast today which means there is no competition like when I was younger.  We love it too and $ isn't everything.  We make enough to live a comfortable life. The big names are not onsite at all times and many own multiple shops.  If you are about $ go for the 7 day long hours, multiple shop model.  I am not down on this because once you sell something for $ you become commercial vs. pure art because there will have to be compromises.  I am just sharing a fact about consistency and $.  You can make a fortune at pizza if you are willing to do the big model with name recognition one gets from winning contests and working with manufactures. 
« Last Edit: November 04, 2017, 07:48:33 PM by waltertore »
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Offline The Dough Doctor

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Re: Relying on manager
« Reply #8 on: November 04, 2017, 07:44:01 PM »
!0: Failure to adequately train the manager(s).
15: Owner's habit of micro-managing.
Tom Lehmann/the Dough Doctor

Offline waltertore

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Re: Relying on manager
« Reply #9 on: November 04, 2017, 07:50:51 PM »
!0: Failure to adequately train the manager(s).
15: Owner's habit of micro-managing.
Tom Lehmann/the Dough Doctor


I train until they are up to my standard and leave them alone, compliment, and correct only when needed.   Hire good people and you don't have the ongoing dramas of personality conflict crap.  Most food places hire cheap and are willing to deal with this as well as an inconsistent product.  It is a reason why so many fail.  If you are notch in your craft and ability to manage people positively odds are you will fail. 
« Last Edit: November 04, 2017, 07:52:25 PM by waltertore »
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http://www.smilingwithhopepizza.com/

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Offline pizzaboi

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Re: Relying on manager
« Reply #10 on: November 04, 2017, 08:23:00 PM »
I know big names coast to coast who are regarded as the top in artisan pizzas today.  Many of their regular customers  have made it to our shop and a common theme is inconsistent at the big names and consistent at ours and they prefer our pizza.  They almost always ask when we are going to open more shops and or extend our hours/days open and we reply never and explain our reasons - too many headaches ???   We are onsite all hours and involved with all levels of the business.  I open, dress, bake, every pizza.  This ensures consistency.  We suffer in the $ sense because more could be made if we followed the model of today but I was raised in the old school small mom and pop model.  People love this concept as it is dying fast today which means there is no competition like when I was younger.  We love it too and $ isn't everything.  We make enough to live a comfortable life. The big names are not onsite at all times and many own multiple shops.  If you are about $ go for the 7 day long hours, multiple shop model.  I am not down on this because once you sell something for $ you become commercial vs. pure art because there will have to be compromises.  I am just sharing a fact about consistency and $.  You can make a fortune at pizza if you are willing to do the big model with name recognition one gets from winning contests and working with manufactures.

Thank you, Walter.

I am no pizza artist (atleast right now) and looking at this purely in terms of business, but I can see your point of view about consistency when you are the owner/operator/artist.




Offline pizzaboi

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Re: Relying on manager
« Reply #11 on: November 04, 2017, 08:30:14 PM »
!0: Failure to adequately train the manager(s).
15: Owner's habit of micro-managing.
Tom Lehmann/the Dough Doctor

Thank you, Tom.

Is there anything specific you think the owners miss when training the manager?




Offline StateofMind

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Re: Relying on manager
« Reply #12 on: November 04, 2017, 09:07:49 PM »
Thank you, StateofMind.

Are there any specific examples to illustrate the "no one will have best interest..." sentiment?

Just trying to wrap my head around and envision it.

Also what is the definition of being a "hands-on owner" ? How many hours a day does one need to work/what duties does one need to do, to qualify as being a hands-on owner?
It's simple, no one will care about your business like you do. To be successful you will have to delegate and have a well trained and responsible staff. Still in most cases even a well compensated manager won't have the dedication and desire to see the business succeed like an owner does. In my experience single unit operations do better when the owner/s are in charge.
The time and dedication needed to be a "hands on owner" is dictated by the business. What are the hours, style of service, number of employees, etc? My brother and I opened and ran a restaurant 2 years back and we worked 60-80 hours each for the first year. While the restaurant was open one of us was there for the first year. We were very successful and just sold it to our silent partners.

Offline pizzaboi

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Re: Relying on manager
« Reply #13 on: November 04, 2017, 09:45:49 PM »
It's simple, no one will care about your business like you do. To be successful you will have to delegate and have a well trained and responsible staff. Still in most cases even a well compensated manager won't have the dedication and desire to see the business succeed like an owner does. In my experience single unit operations do better when the owner/s are in charge.
The time and dedication needed to be a "hands on owner" is dictated by the business. What are the hours, style of service, number of employees, etc? My brother and I opened and ran a restaurant 2 years back and we worked 60-80 hours each for the first year. While the restaurant was open one of us was there for the first year. We were very successful and just sold it to our silent partners.

60-80 hrs/week is insane lot. I am guessing that is cause it was a new business right?

If I buy existing business, then I hope the hours are more reasonable.

Offline StateofMind

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Re: Relying on manager
« Reply #14 on: November 04, 2017, 10:05:58 PM »
60-80 hrs/week is insane lot. I am guessing that is cause it was a new business right?

If I buy existing business, then I hope the hours are more reasonable.
I wouldn't count on it. At least initially. Restaurant work in general is hard work and long hours. If I purchased an existing pizzeria I would plan one being there all day everyday for the first few month then back off some when I was confident in my employees and the systems in place. And at that point I would still likely be working 40-50 hours a week.

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Offline The Dough Doctor

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Re: Relying on manager
« Reply #15 on: November 04, 2017, 10:28:23 PM »
My personal belief is that you don't hire a manager, you train a qualified person for the position. If you are not delegating to a manager within the first year, in all probability you're not going to make it for five years and for sure you are going to be locked into 1 store, the second store will burn you out....three is out of the question. I have a very good friend who has been in the pizzeria business for 10-years now, he has three stores which are all very successful. Did I fail to mention that he was getting away from the shop for a week or more a little over a year after he opened his first store, now he steps out whenever he feels the urge unless there is some dire issue he has to address at one of his stores, in fact right now he is in NYC getting ready to run in the marathon tomorrow.
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Offline waltertore

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Re: Relying on manager
« Reply #16 on: November 04, 2017, 11:26:16 PM »
I wouldn't count on it. At least initially. Restaurant work in general is hard work and long hours. If I purchased an existing pizzeria I would plan one being there all day everyday for the first few month then back off some when I was confident in my employees and the systems in place. And at that point I would still likely be working 40-50 hours a week.

I guess it depends on how one is wired.  I have always been a 1 man show so to speak.  All were in small set ups - fronted, ran my own band, booked it/lived around the world, had my own record label, for 20 years.  Then I went into teaching special education and created working businesses as my classroom (pizza/bakery) that trained students for work.  I placed them in jobs, trained, did all the requirements of being a teacher as well as manager of the business.  I did all the bookkeeping as well with no adult help on any of the fronts.  It resulted in very rewarding and consistent operations, but I never made the big $ of the franchise model.  So it is natural for me to move to the on site all  hours, make all the pies, pizzeria.  I have been doing this lifestyle for 45 years and surround myself with support staff but I will always be the captain of the ship and you do it my way or the highway.  I don't bark, scream, or shame.  I instruct and support.  We have a wonderfully happy positive workplace which is something one rarely sees in our culture.  Sure I could make a lot of $ opening more shops and hiring managers to run them but in the end it is headaches ongoing.  Ask Tony G or any of the multi shop artisan guys how much time they spend on managing personalities and consistency.   If you want to do bullet proof middle of the road pizza it is much easier to be off site, find and train employees.  That is what dough presses, dough rounders, conveyor ovens, dishwashing machines are about.  It is all about what you want to create.  I invite all to come to our pizzeria and experience the love that our customers, non disabled and disabled employees, bring to our universe.   For me this is worth more than $ and thankfully were as busy as we want to be and often have to take the phone off the hook like we did tonight :)  Walter
« Last Edit: November 04, 2017, 11:34:39 PM by waltertore »
SMILING WITH HOPE PIZZA MISSION STATEMENT
TO CREATE HOPE AND MEANING IN THE LIVES OF PEOPLE WITH DISABILITIES
http://www.smilingwithhopepizza.com/

Offline StateofMind

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Re: Relying on manager
« Reply #17 on: November 05, 2017, 01:07:26 AM »
I guess it depends on how one is wired.  I have always been a 1 man show so to speak.  All were in small set ups - fronted, ran my own band, booked it/lived around the world, had my own record label, for 20 years.  Then I went into teaching special education and created working businesses as my classroom (pizza/bakery) that trained students for work.  I placed them in jobs, trained, did all the requirements of being a teacher as well as manager of the business.  I did all the bookkeeping as well with no adult help on any of the fronts.  It resulted in very rewarding and consistent operations, but I never made the big $ of the franchise model.  So it is natural for me to move to the on site all  hours, make all the pies, pizzeria.  I have been doing this lifestyle for 45 years and surround myself with support staff but I will always be the captain of the ship and you do it my way or the highway.  I don't bark, scream, or shame.  I instruct and support.  We have a wonderfully happy positive workplace which is something one rarely sees in our culture.  Sure I could make a lot of $ opening more shops and hiring managers to run them but in the end it is headaches ongoing.  Ask Tony G or any of the multi shop artisan guys how much time they spend on managing personalities and consistency.   If you want to do bullet proof middle of the road pizza it is much easier to be off site, find and train employees.  That is what dough presses, dough rounders, conveyor ovens, dishwashing machines are about.  It is all about what you want to create.  I invite all to come to our pizzeria and experience the love that our customers, non disabled and disabled employees, bring to our universe.   For me this is worth more than $ and thankfully were as busy as we want to be and often have to take the phone off the hook like we did tonight :)  Walter
I hear you. And for me, I have been trying to find a balance between being a one man show and delegating responsibility to trusted managers. I worked me way from cashier to upper/regional management in a top 100 pizza change. I left all that to do my own thing and have more creative and operational flexibility. At our last restaurant my brother and I were a "two man show" if you will. We did everything ourselves at a restaurant that was open 12 hours a day, 7 days a week.

Offline waltertore

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Re: Relying on manager
« Reply #18 on: November 05, 2017, 02:43:48 AM »
I hear you. And for me, I have been trying to find a balance between being a one man show and delegating responsibility to trusted managers. I worked me way from cashier to upper/regional management in a top 100 pizza change. I left all that to do my own thing and have more creative and operational flexibility. At our last restaurant my brother and I were a "two man show" if you will. We did everything ourselves at a restaurant that was open 12 hours a day, 7 days a week.

I am lucky to have my wife as a full partner in our pizzeria as you had your brother.  She does all the books and is a great hostess/cashier/salad maker and jack of whatever else is needed on a shift.  We are open 5 days a week, 23 hours total.  I am 60 and she is 64 and at this point in our lives to work 72 hours a week is a thing of the past.  The body won't do it and becomes a house of pain.  We work out, don't drink or smoke, try to eat right, and keep harmony in the soul/mind. 

We use carbon order tickets, no POS, and no hi tech anything in the shop. It is literally like walking into a time capsule so to speak that I grew up with in the pizza industry.  Our phone has only 1 line.   We do no advertising, no specials, very limited menu - 2 sizes of NY pizzas, Sicilian, calzone, knots, cannoli's, salad with one dressing, home made choc chip cookies, and canned/bottled soda and water.  One dough is used for everything, salad toppings are the same we use to top pizzas.  Charging top prices and limited menu items helps keep things sane.  Low rent, small space, low utilities (ovens keep us warm in the winter and swamp coolers cool in the summer)  makes it a fairly easy gig as far as most pizzerias/restaurants go. I did the math tonight and lately I am now working about 50 hours instead of 60 and manage to get an hour or so throughout the day to sit in the back and watch my old Perry Mason and other classic B&W  dvds on a TV our pizza friend Ellie Olson gave us.  I also get to call Norma most days and sit outside a bit in my 0 gravity chair.  Still there are days when I have to step up and work 12+ hours days on my feet the whole time but they are not the norm anymore as we are finding people to help me with the prep processes. I am learning to modify to accommodate the aging process.    My body can't move as fast/lift as much as it use to/do as much as it use to and  hurts more than I would like but getting old ain't for sissy's as my mother says :)  When Judy or me are sick we close.  I know this is not the norm but we have not lived normal lives so speak.  We have been together 37 years with no kids so that makes things much simpler on the financial end.

Employees are the biggest challenge as they come and go but our reputation is getting around and things are not as hard as they were starting out.  This week was easy on the body and soul and we made good $.  Keeping ones spirit centered makes big problems seem small.  This business challenges us to continue to learn how to take care of ourselves.  It is easy to run oneself into the ground in any field and self medicate to deal with it.  A bad downward cycle.  Live light in the soul, keep the faith, and try not to worry because everything works out in the end.  Walter
« Last Edit: November 05, 2017, 12:05:05 PM by waltertore »
SMILING WITH HOPE PIZZA MISSION STATEMENT
TO CREATE HOPE AND MEANING IN THE LIVES OF PEOPLE WITH DISABILITIES
http://www.smilingwithhopepizza.com/

Offline steelplayer

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Re: Relying on manager
« Reply #19 on: November 05, 2017, 01:39:49 PM »
60-80 hrs/week is insane lot. I am guessing that is cause it was a new business right?

If I buy existing business, then I hope the hours are more reasonable.

Welcome to the restaurant world... I GM'ed several stores over the years (never pizza) and 60 hrs was a short week. The last one we were open 14-15 hrs a day, and I was there most of the time.  Remember your work is not done only during open hours, prep, ordering, receiving  and cleaning
(think hood cleaning at 2 in the morning) many times happen when the store is not open for business.
« Last Edit: November 05, 2017, 01:44:55 PM by steelplayer »
Tom

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