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Author Topic: Relying on manager  (Read 1171 times)

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Offline pizzaboi

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Re: Relying on manager
« Reply #20 on: November 05, 2017, 04:49:07 PM »
My personal belief is that you don't hire a manager, you train a qualified person for the position. If you are not delegating to a manager within the first year, in all probability you're not going to make it for five years and for sure you are going to be locked into 1 store, the second store will burn you out....three is out of the question. I have a very good friend who has been in the pizzeria business for 10-years now, he has three stores which are all very successful. Did I fail to mention that he was getting away from the shop for a week or more a little over a year after he opened his first store, now he steps out whenever he feels the urge unless there is some dire issue he has to address at one of his stores, in fact right now he is in NYC getting ready to run in the marathon tomorrow.
Tom Lehmann/The Dough Doctor

Great points about training a qualified person and about delegating a manager within first year. Something i will have to keep in mind.

Your friends story is an inspiration too, which shows that it can be done.

My objective in purchasing a biz, is to live comfortably and hopefully buy other businesses.

Offline pizzaboi

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Re: Relying on manager
« Reply #21 on: November 05, 2017, 04:50:43 PM »
Welcome to the restaurant world... I GM'ed several stores over the years (never pizza) and 60 hrs was a short week. The last one we were open 14-15 hrs a day, and I was there most of the time.  Remember your work is not done only during open hours, prep, ordering, receiving  and cleaning
(think hood cleaning at 2 in the morning) many times happen when the store is not open for business.

So i guess prep and cleaning would add 2 hours extra per day, cause they need to be done outside the operation hours.

Was the owner there too, or did you as GM manage everything yourself?
« Last Edit: November 05, 2017, 04:54:15 PM by pizzaboi »

Offline steelplayer

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Re: Relying on manager
« Reply #22 on: November 05, 2017, 05:22:54 PM »
So i guess prep and cleaning would add 2 hours extra per day, cause they need to be done outside the operation hours.

Was the owner there too, or did you as GM manage everything yourself?
In my case, the last store I managed was on Kauai and the owner was on Oahu.  We were in touch often, but I ran all the day to day operations.
« Last Edit: November 05, 2017, 05:24:37 PM by steelplayer »
Tom

Where ever you are, you are fives miles from somewhere else...

Offline pizzaboi

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Re: Relying on manager
« Reply #23 on: November 05, 2017, 08:08:22 PM »
In my case, the last store I managed was on Kauai and the owner was on Oahu.  We were in touch often, but I ran all the day to day operations.

If you dont mind me asking, what is adequate compensation for someone in your role?

Offline steelplayer

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Re: Relying on manager
« Reply #24 on: November 05, 2017, 08:30:51 PM »
If you dont mind me asking, what is adequate compensation for someone in your role?

The problem is... this is the restaurant business, most GM's are on salary (as was I) which assumes 40/hr weeks.   That almost never happens.  I have been out of the game for almost 17 years, at that time I was making about $35,000 a year.  That works out to about $11/hr.  There were benefits; paid vacations, health insurance, performance bonuses. Compensation will also depend on where one is in the country, Hawaii and say New York are not going to be the same.  I would talk to similar shops in your area to get a better idea of what the going rate seems to be. Restaurant biz mags used to periodically  publish management rates for various areas of the US.

One last thing... in my experience of about 30 years in the biz I have NEVER heard of any store making 20%+ profit.  The national average is in the 5-9% range.  I was usually able to hit those numbers, by maintaining 25-28% food costs, and 10-15% liqueur costs.

 
« Last Edit: November 05, 2017, 09:27:57 PM by steelplayer »
Tom

Where ever you are, you are fives miles from somewhere else...

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Offline TXCraig1

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Re: Relying on manager
« Reply #25 on: November 05, 2017, 10:13:04 PM »
I am lucky to have my wife as a full partner in our pizzeria as you had your brother.

Where you are really lucky is that you both are on the same page. I've worked for husband-wife partners who thought they were lucky to have each other as partners but didn't realize it was really the kiss of death with each other telling the employees completely different and contradictory things. It's an impossible situation for employees as politically husband/wife/owner/manager are part-in-parcel, so there is no owner to tell how the manager is (inadvertently) going behind his/her back and f'ing things up. From what I can tell, this is the rule and not the exception. As a general rule, I would advise someone to NEVER run a restaurant with his/her spouse.
"We make great pizza, with sourdough when we can, baker's yeast when we must, but always great pizza."  
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Offline Essen1

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Re: Relying on manager
« Reply #26 on: November 05, 2017, 10:37:10 PM »
Where you are really lucky is that you both are on the same page. I've worked for husband-wife partners who thought they were lucky to have each other as partners but didn't realize it was really the kiss of death with each other telling the employees completely different and contradictory things. It's an impossible situation for employees as politically husband/wife/owner/manager are part-in-parcel, so there is no owner to tell how the manager is (inadvertently) going behind his/her back and f'ing things up. From what I can tell, this is the rule and not the exception. As a general rule, I would advise someone to NEVER run a restaurant with his/her spouse.

Walter has a truly unique situation and I'm happy it works for him and his wife. Not to mention the cause they both work for. Amazing.

But,...I have learned the hard way that the notion "Never work for or with family" is absolutely true.
Mike

ďAll styles of pizza are valid. I make the best Iím capable of; you should make the best youíre capable of. I donít want to make somebody elseís pizza.Ē ~ Chris Bianco

Offline Essen1

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Re: Relying on manager
« Reply #27 on: November 05, 2017, 10:38:12 PM »
My objective in purchasing a biz, is to live comfortably and hopefully buy other businesses.

You are lazy.

No, let me rephrase that...you come off as lazy.

If you don't want to put the hours in, do the hard work, don't know anything about pizza or its industry,...find a different shop to buy.

Perhaps a car dealership. Or a Laundrymat. Or a small casino.

I saw the guys over at PMQ stopped replying to you.
« Last Edit: November 05, 2017, 10:44:33 PM by Essen1 »
Mike

ďAll styles of pizza are valid. I make the best Iím capable of; you should make the best youíre capable of. I donít want to make somebody elseís pizza.Ē ~ Chris Bianco

Online StateofMind

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Re: Relying on manager
« Reply #28 on: November 05, 2017, 10:46:57 PM »
Walter has a truly unique situation and I'm happy it works for him and his wife. Not to mention the cause they both work for. Amazing.

But,...I have learned the hard way that the notion "Never work for or with family" is absolutely true.

I work with my brother, wife, father, and our dear friend who is like a sister. Sometimes we wonder what the hell we are all doing working together, but of the end of the day I trust them unconditionally and know they have my back.

Offline Essen1

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Re: Relying on manager
« Reply #29 on: November 05, 2017, 10:59:26 PM »
I work with my brother, wife, father, and our dear friend who is like a sister. Sometimes we wonder what the hell we are all doing working together, but of the end of the day I trust them unconditionally and know they have my back.

I am really happy you guys are all a team and work as such. Goes to show that that notion I mentioned does have flaws. However, I had different experiences with my own kin.
Mike

ďAll styles of pizza are valid. I make the best Iím capable of; you should make the best youíre capable of. I donít want to make somebody elseís pizza.Ē ~ Chris Bianco

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Offline waltertore

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Re: Relying on manager
« Reply #30 on: November 05, 2017, 11:02:52 PM »
Judy and I have been working on our issues for over 30 years and we are finally at the point to do this.  She has no food experience so I am the boss so to speak with how we deal with workers tasks, systems of work flow, menu, and hiring/training/disciplining our special needs employees.  She is the salad queen and I don't mess with that area.  Her space is around the register.  Underneath are a bunch of shelves.  It is ultra chaos as she never puts things back in the same place and is forever looking for things.  It is nuts to me but it works for her.  The rest of the place is set up to my needs - OCD with cleanliness and order - and she respects that by putting things back where they go.  She is a great bookkeeper and I stay out of that arena.  Basically I am the chef and she the accountant, phone person.  People out here are often clueless to our pizza and she is so patient with them that it can take 5 minutes to get 1 order on the phone.  I answer the phone when I can but could never do it all night like she does.  We are about 80% phone in take out.  She also has incredible people skills (is a former school counselor) and greets/deals/counsels, listens to, customers in a way you will rarely if ever see in a restaurant.  She keeps up with births, deaths, illnesses, weddings, etc.  I am pretty good on this end too and our customers are part of our family so to speak.  This is the model I grew up with and it is gift to continue it.  Together we make a good team.  Our employees get the same deal from both of us as we talk each day about what is going on employee wise.  The key is to let each other excel and create in the areas they are talented in.  Walter 
« Last Edit: November 05, 2017, 11:10:41 PM by waltertore »
SMILING WITH HOPE PIZZA MISSION STATEMENT
TO CREATE HOPE AND MEANING IN THE LIVES OF PEOPLE WITH DISABILITIES
http://www.smilingwithhopepizza.com/

Offline pizzaboi

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Re: Relying on manager
« Reply #31 on: November 06, 2017, 03:04:24 AM »
You are lazy.

No, let me rephrase that...you come off as lazy.

If you don't want to put the hours in, do the hard work, don't know anything about pizza or its industry,...find a different shop to buy.

Perhaps a car dealership. Or a Laundrymat. Or a small casino.

I saw the guys over at PMQ stopped replying to you.

This is your second post direct towards me and you come across very negative and all over the place.

Firstly, my post on PMQ about "purchasing a new biz" reached its natural conclusion. If you havent realized, most posts tend to eventually go dead after a few days. I also have same "purchasing a new biz", post on this site too and that too reached its end. StateOfMind, Walter contributed on that post and are now on here on this post too. You are reading way too much into things and may be should consider relaxing a bit.

Secondly, as for being lazy. Ensuring that your returns outweigh your efforts is called being smart, not lazy. There are only so many hours in the day, and trading my time for money, is not my idea of success.

Thirdly, I am reviewing at a lot of different businesses (gyms, laundromats), and this excercise is a part of my research. But I dont need you to tell me, what I should or shouldnt buy. I get to decide how I want to invest my time and money. All I am here for is for information, so that I can make my own decision, which other guys have been very generous and kind to share and offer.


Offline pizzaboi

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Re: Relying on manager
« Reply #32 on: November 06, 2017, 03:22:13 AM »
The problem is... this is the restaurant business, most GM's are on salary (as was I) which assumes 40/hr weeks.   That almost never happens.  I have been out of the game for almost 17 years, at that time I was making about $35,000 a year.  That works out to about $11/hr.  There were benefits; paid vacations, health insurance, performance bonuses. Compensation will also depend on where one is in the country, Hawaii and say New York are not going to be the same.  I would talk to similar shops in your area to get a better idea of what the going rate seems to be. Restaurant biz mags used to periodically  publish management rates for various areas of the US.

One last thing... in my experience of about 30 years in the biz I have NEVER heard of any store making 20%+ profit.  The national average is in the 5-9% range.  I was usually able to hit those numbers, by maintaining 25-28% food costs, and 10-15% liqueur costs.

Thank you very much. I hear chefs in kitchen too get shafted with similar work expectations, so they end up working extra long hours with not much pay.

I understand your point on 20%+. I have seen food court based franchise doing $1.2M in revenues, net 10% after owner takes a salary (50K), pays for car & gas etc, but 20% does seem high.

As for this pizza business I think their super cheap rent (compared to their revenues) may have something to do with boosting their net. Ofcourse, I will get all this checked out by accountant to confirm that it is true. Someone on the forums suggested a "forensic accountant" who will be able to dig things up.

I sincerely cannot thank this forum & PMQ and the contributors enough for sharing their knowledge.




Offline Essen1

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Re: Relying on manager
« Reply #33 on: November 06, 2017, 11:36:21 PM »
This is your second post direct towards me and you come across very negative and all over the place.

Firstly, my post on PMQ about "purchasing a new biz" reached its natural conclusion. If you havent realized, most posts tend to eventually go dead after a few days. I also have same "purchasing a new biz", post on this site too and that too reached its end. StateOfMind, Walter contributed on that post and are now on here on this post too. You are reading way too much into things and may be should consider relaxing a bit.

Secondly, as for being lazy. Ensuring that your returns outweigh your efforts is called being smart, not lazy. There are only so many hours in the day, and trading my time for money, is not my idea of success.

Thirdly, I am reviewing at a lot of different businesses (gyms, laundromats), and this excercise is a part of my research. But I dont need you to tell me, what I should or shouldnt buy. I get to decide how I want to invest my time and money. All I am here for is for information, so that I can make my own decision, which other guys have been very generous and kind to share and offer.

I apologize if I have hurt your feelings with the little bluntness on my part. It was certainly not my intention. I guess, nowadays people are a bit softer around the edges than they were when I grew up.

But let me guess,...you have never worked a single minute in a restaurant, bakery or any other foodservice establishment? Or made a pizza for that matter? The reason why all your posts went dead is simple...people shook their collective heads at your ignorance. But to each their own, I guess.

Afterall, I do wish you good luck in your future endeavors.
Mike

ďAll styles of pizza are valid. I make the best Iím capable of; you should make the best youíre capable of. I donít want to make somebody elseís pizza.Ē ~ Chris Bianco

Online StateofMind

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Re: Relying on manager
« Reply #34 on: November 06, 2017, 11:53:02 PM »
It does seem you are looking for confirmation of your preexisting notions of what it is like to run a successful restaurant. Or you are at least looking for confirmation of what you want things to be like. Many people have given you their honest opinions based on years of hard work and PASSION. You would be doing yourself a disservice not to think deeply about these and decide whether or not you are up to taking on this type of work and lifestyle. We have enough people in his business who lack passion and sincerity.

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Offline Essen1

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Re: Relying on manager
« Reply #35 on: November 07, 2017, 12:11:27 AM »
Quote
Secondly, as for being lazy. Ensuring that your returns outweigh your efforts is called being smart, not lazy. There are only so many hours in the day, and trading my time for money, is not my idea of success.

Maybe Wall Street would be a great and better place to invest your money? Pizza is clearly not it, imo.
Mike

ďAll styles of pizza are valid. I make the best Iím capable of; you should make the best youíre capable of. I donít want to make somebody elseís pizza.Ē ~ Chris Bianco

Offline pizzaboi

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Re: Relying on manager
« Reply #36 on: November 07, 2017, 04:31:08 AM »
I apologize if I have hurt your feelings with the little bluntness on my part. It was certainly not my intention. I guess, nowadays people are a bit softer around the edges than they were when I grew up.

But let me guess,...you have never worked a single minute in a restaurant, bakery or any other foodservice establishment? Or made a pizza for that matter? The reason why all your posts went dead is simple...people shook their collective heads at your ignorance. But to each their own, I guess.

Afterall, I do wish you good luck in your future endeavors.

After you kept repeating that my "post are dead", I checked out to see what you are talking about

https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?board=57.0

it looks like ALL my 3 posts have the highest activity, with most number of replies, for the last month.

Now I think you are just a little jealous... lol

anyways all cool.  :)

Offline pizzaboi

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Re: Relying on manager
« Reply #37 on: November 07, 2017, 04:57:29 AM »
It does seem you are looking for confirmation of your preexisting notions of what it is like to run a successful restaurant. Or you are at least looking for confirmation of what you want things to be like. Many people have given you their honest opinions based on years of hard work and PASSION. You would be doing yourself a disservice not to think deeply about these and decide whether or not you are up to taking on this type of work and lifestyle. We have enough people in his business who lack passion and sincerity.

I have reviewed a few franchise businesses and their books are generally clean. This independent pizza business that I saw, had its numbers all over the map, hence wanted to get expert opinion. Franchises have a set system, processes and training, so it is easier to get a hang of, plus I have friends who are in the industry. But I had no frame of reference for the independent pizza shop and I didnt want to make assumptions.

Whatever business I get into I will be giving my 5000%. But I am also not keen on spending 80 hr work weeks. and I dont want the business to revolve around me alone. Which is why Tom's reply resonates with me. Having a business that revolves around the owner is the biggest mistake SMB owners make, especially when the times comes to sell the business and exit. I dont want to mistake inefficiencies for passion. If you are at the business for 80 hours out of your own volition, love that is passion, but if you are there because the business will fail without you around, then it is not passion, it ibecomes fear/slavery.

I would much rather work 40 hours and have another manager work 40 hours and me make less money, than work 80 hours and make more.

you guys (especially YOU) have given me great information, for which I cant thank you enough!
« Last Edit: November 07, 2017, 05:10:53 AM by pizzaboi »

Offline waltertore

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Re: Relying on manager
« Reply #38 on: November 07, 2017, 04:20:56 PM »
I have reviewed a few franchise businesses and their books are generally clean. This independent pizza business that I saw, had its numbers all over the map, hence wanted to get expert opinion. Franchises have a set system, processes and training, so it is easier to get a hang of, plus I have friends who are in the industry. But I had no frame of reference for the independent pizza shop and I didnt want to make assumptions.

Whatever business I get into I will be giving my 5000%. But I am also not keen on spending 80 hr work weeks. and I dont want the business to revolve around me alone. Which is why Tom's reply resonates with me. Having a business that revolves around the owner is the biggest mistake SMB owners make, especially when the times comes to sell the business and exit. I dont want to mistake inefficiencies for passion. If you are at the business for 80 hours out of your own volition, love that is passion, but if you are there because the business will fail without you around, then it is not passion, it ibecomes fear/slavery.

I would much rather work 40 hours and have another manager work 40 hours and me make less money, than work 80 hours and make more.

you guys (especially YOU) have given me great information, for which I cant thank you enough!

You might be best suited for a franchise where you would get corporate training, support, and be more likely to let others run the places as their methods of making pizza is geared towards a workforce that has no pizza experience.   Most on this forum are home pizza makers and take it very seriously.   The pizzeria owners on this forum are more on this end of pizza and tend to be 1 location set ups like we are. The PMQ forum would be wealth of information for you as most on that site have large operations that require having managers, multiple sites, and experience with franchises.  Good luck with your adventure :)  Walter
« Last Edit: November 07, 2017, 05:21:04 PM by waltertore »
SMILING WITH HOPE PIZZA MISSION STATEMENT
TO CREATE HOPE AND MEANING IN THE LIVES OF PEOPLE WITH DISABILITIES
http://www.smilingwithhopepizza.com/

Offline pizzaboi

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Re: Relying on manager
« Reply #39 on: November 08, 2017, 08:21:55 PM »
You might be best suited for a franchise where you would get corporate training, support, and be more likely to let others run the places as their methods of making pizza is geared towards a workforce that has no pizza experience.   Most on this forum are home pizza makers and take it very seriously.   The pizzeria owners on this forum are more on this end of pizza and tend to be 1 location set ups like we are. The PMQ forum would be wealth of information for you as most on that site have large operations that require having managers, multiple sites, and experience with franchises.  Good luck with your adventure :)  Walter

Thanks for your advice, walter. I hear you on the franchise operations and I agree.

PMQ logged me out, so havent logged back in, while this site keeps you logged in, so it easier to engage, create posts etc without having to log in.

Cheers!

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