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Author Topic: Pete-zza's Papa John's Clone Pizza  (Read 498581 times)

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Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Pete-zza's Papa John's Clone Pizza
« Reply #1140 on: January 11, 2017, 01:43:31 PM »
Pretty sure it was this one, can check when I am back home.

https://www.walmart.com/ip/Authentic-Menu-Imported-Pure-Sunflower-Oil-33.8-fl-oz/47002043
wrightme,

When I started my project to reverse engineer and clone the PJ dough, I used soybean oil. That is what PJ used, no doubt because it was (and is) one of the lowest cost oils around. But as Millennials and others started demanding cleaner ingredients, and bloggers started attacking pizza operators like PJ, even if unwarranted, PJ started adding extra virgin olive oil--which is much more expensive than soybean oil, even for large users like PJ--to their doughs. But since the extra virgin olive oil is at the bottom of the ingredients list, such as given at http://www.papajohns.com/company/papa-johns-ingredients.html, there will only be a small amount on a relative basis. I would be surprised if one can even detect it in a finished crust, and if I had to guess, the extra virgin olive oil may be well below one percent. But from a marketing standpoint, it is a smart thing for PJ to do.

Peter

Offline werty20

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Re: Pete-zza's Papa John's Clone Pizza
« Reply #1141 on: January 11, 2017, 02:15:22 PM »
werty20,

Corn oil in large amounts may yield a flavor that may be too pronounced. So, as between the two oils, I personally would go with the sunflower seed oil even though it is harder to find and is more expensive than other oils, at least here in the U.S. Sunflower seed oil is the oil that PJ uses in its pizza sauce and it is high up in the ingredients statement (see http://www.papajohns.com/company/papa-johns-ingredients.html) so it should be a mild and inoffensive oil. But to satisfy your palate, you might do a couple of experiments using both oils and report back on your findings that may be of value to other members who may want to try other oils.

Peter
many thx
sunflower is no. 1 oil her and available everywhere , no soybean .. i will try both corn and sunflower oil
1 last question
with 480 - 500f oven using baking sheet can i increase oil or water level ?

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Pete-zza's Papa John's Clone Pizza
« Reply #1142 on: January 11, 2017, 02:51:42 PM »
with 480 - 500f oven using baking sheet can i increase oil or water level ?
werty29,

The oil level is already quite high so I don't think I would increase it, at least not more than a total of about 7%. As for the hydration level, if you increase it, you may end up with a larger rim and a crumb (the soft inside of the crust) that is puffier and more open and airy. This is something I addressed earlier in the thread at Reply 11 at https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=6758.msg58438#msg58438. However, since I never had reason to try using a baking sheet--only a pizza screen--I can't say how the pizza will behave using a baking sheet. But, before the pizza can start to bake properly, the baking sheet will have to heat up until it reaches the required bake temperature of the pizza. That will mean a longer total bake time, which might have an effect on how the pizza turns out, especially if the cheese heats up faster than the crust and browns before the bottom of the crust is at the desired color.

Peter

Offline werty20

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Re: Pete-zza's Papa John's Clone Pizza
« Reply #1143 on: January 12, 2017, 02:11:00 PM »
many thx
can i use the same hand kneed method for 2 day pizza ?

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Pete-zza's Papa John's Clone Pizza
« Reply #1144 on: January 12, 2017, 03:06:42 PM »
many thx
can i use the same hand kneed method for 2 day pizza ?
werty20,

Yes.

Peter

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Offline werty20

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Re: Pete-zza's Papa John's Clone Pizza
« Reply #1145 on: January 14, 2017, 02:06:30 PM »
after 34h ..  i used the updated 2 day recipe , sun oil .. was a little stiff dough  , will see when it done

Offline MadMatt

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Re: Pete-zza's Papa John's Clone Pizza
« Reply #1146 on: March 19, 2017, 05:20:24 PM »
I've had a few successful pizza's despite my oven not being up to the job.


My last pizza was near perfect, except once I took it out the oven  the back half was near burnt.  Maybe my ovens too small and I should try making smaller pizza's. 

No idea why this happened  as I've cooked cakes and it's all cooked evenly.


I have an electric fan oven,  the fan and element is at the back of the oven.  I put the pizza on the top shelf so the air blows under the base.




How does one go about adjusting the recipe? I want to make 2 x 12" pizza rather than a 14".

Offline Hermit

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Re: Pete-zza's Papa John's Clone Pizza
« Reply #1147 on: March 19, 2017, 05:25:56 PM »
I've had a few successful pizza's despite my oven not being up to the job.


My last pizza was near perfect, except once I took it out the oven  the back half was near burnt.  Maybe my ovens too small and I should try making smaller pizza's. 

No idea why this happened  as I've cooked cakes and it's all cooked evenly.


I have an electric fan oven,  the fan and element is at the back of the oven.  I put the pizza on the top shelf so the air blows under the base.

Try rotating the pizza 1/4 or 1/2 half turn mid way through bake.

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Pete-zza's Papa John's Clone Pizza
« Reply #1148 on: March 19, 2017, 05:45:05 PM »
How does one go about adjusting the recipe? I want to make 2 x 12" pizza rather than a 14".
MadMatt,

Do you have a particular recipe in mind?

Peter

Offline MadMatt

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Re: Pete-zza's Papa John's Clone Pizza
« Reply #1149 on: March 19, 2017, 05:57:46 PM »
MadMatt,

Do you have a particular recipe in mind?

Peter

Any of your papa johns clone.

I just need to know the flour for 1 x 12" pizza the rest I can work out. 


Thanks.


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Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Pete-zza's Papa John's Clone Pizza
« Reply #1150 on: March 19, 2017, 07:02:23 PM »
Any of your papa johns clone.

I just need to know the flour for 1 x 12" pizza the rest I can work out. 


Thanks.
MadMatt,

As best we know, Papa John's uses a dough ball of 20 ounces (give or take a fraction of an ounce) for a 14" pizza. That translates into a thickness factor of 20/(3.14159 x 7 x 7) = 0.1299225, or about 0.13. It is possible, and maybe even quite likely, that the thickness factors for sizes other than 14" may be a bit different at Papa John's but I think you should be fine using the above thickness factor for the 12" size.

I suggest that you take the above thickness factor and, using the Thickness Factor option, enter it into the expanded dough calculating tool at https://www.pizzamaking.com/expanded-calculator.html. You will see that you can specify the number of dough balls (in your case, two) and the size of the pizzas (in your case, 12"). All that remains to be done is to enter the baker's percents for the recipe you would like to use and a bowl residue compensation (I typically use 1.5%). Once the dough is made, you will want to divide the dough batch into two pieces and adjust their weights to be 3.14159 x 6 x 6 x 0.13 = 14.7 ounces. You can round to 15 ounces if you would like or use about 417 grams (14.7 x 28.35) as the final dough ball weight if you prefer.

Peter

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Pete-zza's Papa John's Clone Pizza
« Reply #1151 on: April 15, 2017, 11:19:09 AM »
For a good example of a 16", roughly 24-hour cold fermented PJ clone dough, see Reply 9014 at https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=26286.msg477429#msg477429, and the related photos at Reply 9007 at https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=26286.msg477391#msg477391 (also reproduced below).

Peter

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Pete-zza's Papa John's Clone Pizza
« Reply #1152 on: April 19, 2017, 03:16:47 PM »
It looks like Papa John's is looking into going organic:

http://www.pmq.com/April-2017/Papa-Johns-Testing-Organic-Ingredients-at-35-Stores-in-Lexington-Kentucky/

However, thus far, it looks like the organic ingredients will be toppings, not cheese, sauce, flour or other dough ingredients.

Peter

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Pete-zza's Papa John's Clone Pizza
« Reply #1153 on: April 26, 2017, 03:11:48 PM »
According to a recent article in the PMQ magazine, Papa John's was named the Pizza Brand of the Year (2017) based on a Harris poll:

http://www.pmq.com/April-2017/Harris-Poll-Papa-Johns-Topples-Pizza-Hut-as-2017-Pizza-Brand-of-the-Year/

Peter

Offline MadMatt

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Re: Pete-zza's Papa John's Clone Pizza
« Reply #1154 on: April 27, 2017, 03:00:43 PM »
For a good example of a 16", roughly 24-hour cold fermented PJ clone dough, see Reply 9014 at https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=26286.msg477429#msg477429, and the related photos at Reply 9007 at https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=26286.msg477391#msg477391 (also reproduced below).

Peter

That looks good and made on a steel unlike many papa johns copies


I'm really thinking about getting a steel.


I've tried my best with what I have, but it just isn't good enough.

The top of my pizza's get incinerated, it's the base that is the issue.. especially the bottom that are usually pale. 

Though my last pizza came out a bit more brown and crisp than usual. I had put a thick heavy tray bellow in hopes it would give off some heat and help crisp the bottom a little. :)


There's just no choice in the UK. I could see about getting one done made from a steel fabricator.

Is it true when you use a steel  you have to wait again for it to heat up? I usually do two 12" pizza, one at a time  so I don't want to bake a pizza, wait 30 mins for it to heat up..

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Offline csnack

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Re: Pete-zza's Papa John's Clone Pizza
« Reply #1155 on: May 11, 2017, 04:32:54 AM »
Hey Pete you had a post somewhere here that had a collection of links to versions of this dough with various timeframes, like 8 hour, 10 hour, 12 hour and so on doughs with the associated links all in one post. I thought I had subscribed to it, but for the life of me I can't find it anymore. Is it in this thread somewhere? I'm pretty sure they were all PJ clones you did, but maybe they were just regular American or NY pies.

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Pete-zza's Papa John's Clone Pizza
« Reply #1156 on: May 11, 2017, 09:03:39 AM »
Hey Pete you had a post somewhere here that had a collection of links to versions of this dough with various timeframes, like 8 hour, 10 hour, 12 hour and so on doughs with the associated links all in one post. I thought I had subscribed to it, but for the life of me I can't find it anymore. Is it in this thread somewhere? I'm pretty sure they were all PJ clones you did, but maybe they were just regular American or NY pies.
csnack,

Most of the PJ clones I came up with, and excepting things like the PJ dessert pizzas, the PJ clone mega chocolate chip recipe and a few others, are in the first three pages of this thread. But I believe the post you are looking for is Reply 31 at:

https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=6758.msg60076#msg60076.

However, subsequent to the post at Reply 31, I came up with more versions. They are the ones described in these posts:

Reply 35 at https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=6758.msg60197#msg60197,

Reply 38 at https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=6758.msg60892#msg60892,

Reply 48 at https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=6758.msg64308#msg64308, and

Reply 52 at https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=6758.msg66312#msg66312.

Peter

Offline csnack

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Re: Pete-zza's Papa John's Clone Pizza
« Reply #1157 on: May 11, 2017, 05:15:24 PM »
That's awesome man thanks. A goldmine of PJ clones. I'm going to try the 8 hour one when my screen arrives Saturday. The only thing I remember about their pizza was that it was very sweet. How do you always know where everything is? I was about 10 replies ahead of that post before I finally gave up.

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Pete-zza's Papa John's Clone Pizza
« Reply #1158 on: May 11, 2017, 06:10:31 PM »
That's awesome man thanks. A goldmine of PJ clones. I'm going to try the 8 hour one when my screen arrives Saturday. The only thing I remember about their pizza was that it was very sweet. How do you always know where everything is? I was about 10 replies ahead of that post before I finally gave up.
csnack,

It's actually quite amusing to me that the only PJ clone that represents what I thought PJ was doing at the time I started this thread is the first recipe. The clone dough for that recipe is one that can last up to nine days of cold fermentation if the dough is kept nice and cold for that period, although 3-5 days might be more realistic, with five days being better than three days. Because most people don't want to wait five days or more for their pizzas, I decided to create other versions of the clones that might be more acceptable to the members from a time standpoint. Yet, I think the other versions, while distinguishable from the real thing, are pretty good representations of the real thing. Otherwise, I would not have posted them. We have a few members outside of the U.S. who are actually using some of my PJ clones in pizza businesses.

You are correct that the PJ pizzas have crusts that are sweeter than most. Some members who have attempted my PJ clones have pointed that out, whereas others say that they had not problems with the sweeter crusts. I use very little sugar in my diet so I am more sensitive to it and can quickly detect it wherever it resides. Of course, one can use less sugar than my PJ clone dough recipes call for if they would like a less sweet crust.

Your question about how I can find things has come up many times over the years. Part of that capability comes from being a Moderator and the fact that I try to look at every new post on the forum. So that gives the big picture on a daily basis. And I know where everything is supposed to go on the forum and to do that you have to master the forum's indexing system. That often tells me where to look for things. I also use the forum's many search features, often many times a day, and that has allowed me to become proficient with my searches. Finally, it helps to have a pretty good memory when composing keywords to use in the forum's search features. I have been doing these sorts of things for almost thirteen years, as a Moderator for most of that time, so that certainly helps.

Peter

Offline csnack

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Re: Pete-zza's Papa John's Clone Pizza
« Reply #1159 on: May 11, 2017, 08:04:44 PM »
csnack,

It's actually quite amusing to me that the only PJ clone that represents what I thought PJ was doing at the time I started this thread is the first recipe. The clone dough for that recipe is one that can last up to nine days of cold fermentation if the dough is kept nice and cold for that period, although 3-5 days might be more realistic, with five days being better than three days. Because most people don't want to wait five days or more for their pizzas, I decided to create other versions of the clones that might be more acceptable to the members from a time standpoint. Yet, I think the other versions, while distinguishable from the real thing, are pretty good representations of the real thing. Otherwise, I would not have posted them. We have a few members outside of the U.S. who are actually using some of my PJ clones in pizza businesses.

You are correct that the PJ pizzas have crusts that are sweeter than most. Some members who have attempted my PJ clones have pointed that out, whereas others say that they had not problems with the sweeter crusts. I use very little sugar in my diet so I am more sensitive to it and can quickly detect it wherever it resides. Of course, one can use less sugar than my PJ clone dough recipes call for if they would like a less sweet crust.

Your question about how I can find things has come up many times over the years. Part of that capability comes from being a Moderator and the fact that I try to look at every new post on the forum. So that gives the big picture on a daily basis. And I know where everything is supposed to go on the forum and to do that you have to master the forum's indexing system. That often tells me where to look for things. I also use the forum's many search features, often many times a day, and that has allowed me to become proficient with my searches. Finally, it helps to have a pretty good memory when composing keywords to use in the forum's search features. I have been doing these sorts of things for almost thirteen years, as a Moderator for most of that time, so that certainly helps.

Peter
Cool. It looks like you were very happy with both the 8 hour RT dough and the 2 day CF dough. Do you think the 2 day dough was noticeably better than the 8 hour one?

I see you tend to bake these at 500. My oven goes up to 550 and pizza usually cooks in about 5-6min on a stone at that temp. Is 500 for around 8 or so minutes something you recommend for this style then? Like, on a screen on the lowest rack? Especially because of all that sugar there's no way that dough would survive on a stone I don't think. In fact 1% sugar is the highest I can get away with on a stone or cast iron at 550 anyway. Maybe slide it onto the stone for a minute. I think you mentioned doing that too.

Incidentally, and unrelated - don't you have the Cuisinart 14 cup food processor, the 14BCN or whatever it is? If so that's the one that had the blade recalled, the S blade that has four rivets and apparently can crack and leave shards of metal in food idk. They're replacing the blade and I just got mine after 5+ months. Fyi, though you probably already knew that if you have that model.

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