Pizza Making Forum

Pizza Making => Dessert Pizza => Topic started by: norma427 on June 12, 2012, 09:59:30 PM

Title: Dessert Pizza from Novemberís Dessert Dough
Post by: norma427 on June 12, 2012, 09:59:30 PM
I have wanted to try Novemberís dessert dough recipe at Reply 26 http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,791.msg34074.html#msg34074 for awhile.  I mixed the dough using the same amounts of ingredients that Novembers gave, but substituted light brown sugar for the dark brown sugar.  The dough felt too dry after I mixed all the ingredients together so I added a little more water.  The dough still felt somewhat dry, but I decided to just let it go and see what would happen.  The dessert dough was mixed Sunday.  

When I went to open the dough ball today, it still felt dry, but opened okay.  I decided to par-bake the skin after orange marmalade was spread on the dough.  The dough rose well.  It then was taken out of the oven and strawberries and blueberries were used as dressing and a whole lemon was squeezed over the top of the blueberries and strawberries.  Then some granulated sugar was added on top of the dressing.  The pie was then put back into the oven to finish baking.  A special kind of topping was then added that Randy got from another food vendor.  It is used on top of strawberries pies at a bakery.  

The dessert pizza turned out very well.  The taste of the crust was very good and it went well with the other dressings.  I never tasted this kind of pizza crust before.

I donít know if a little more water would have made the crust a little more airy or not.

Thanks November for a good dessert dough for a dessert pizza!  :)

Norma  
Title: Re: Dessert Pizza from Novemberís Dessert Dough
Post by: norma427 on June 12, 2012, 10:00:27 PM
Norma
Title: Re: Dessert Pizza from Novemberís Dessert Dough
Post by: norma427 on June 12, 2012, 10:01:16 PM
Norma
Title: Re: Dessert Pizza from Novemberís Dessert Dough
Post by: norma427 on June 12, 2012, 10:02:10 PM
Norma
Title: Re: Dessert Pizza from Novemberís Dessert Dough
Post by: norma427 on June 12, 2012, 10:03:11 PM
Norma
Title: Re: Dessert Pizza from Novemberís Dessert Dough
Post by: norma427 on June 12, 2012, 10:04:00 PM
Norma
Title: Re: Dessert Pizza from Novemberís Dessert Dough
Post by: norma427 on June 12, 2012, 10:04:52 PM
Norma
Title: Re: Dessert Pizza from Novemberís Dessert Dough
Post by: norma427 on June 12, 2012, 10:05:52 PM
Norma
Title: Re: Dessert Pizza from Novemberís Dessert Dough
Post by: RamirOk on June 13, 2012, 01:16:10 PM
Wow that looks fantastic, I have to try that recipe.
Title: Re: Dessert Pizza from Novemberís Dessert Dough
Post by: norma427 on June 13, 2012, 02:24:52 PM
Wow that looks fantastic, I have to try that recipe.

RamirOk,

I would also like to try Novemberís recipe for another dessert pizza for next week, but am not sure on whether I should add some more water or not.  Maybe even using a little more evaporated milk might do, but I really donít know.  With using the evaporated milk, cider vinegar and brown sugar I am not sure how to calculate really what the hydration was used.  I would like a little softer dough.  Novemberís dessert dough was very good in taste and sure went together well for a dessert pizza, but I always like an airier crust for some reason.  I want to try a apple pie dessert pizza next week.  The touch of cinnamon added a nice flavor. 

I donít think November ever posted a picture of his dessert pizza.

Norma
Title: Re: Dessert Pizza from Novemberís Dessert Dough
Post by: RamirOk on June 13, 2012, 02:52:25 PM
So I convert November's recipe to percentages

50% of Bread flour
50% of All-purpose flour
29% of Water
29% of 2% evaporated milk
3.5% of Apple cider vinegar
9.7% of Unsalted butter
2.4% of Dark brown sugar
1.4% of kosher salt
1/2 T of cinnamon
.7 IDY

Based on the numbers it looks like is 61.5% of liquid but I also don't know how much hydratation the butter and sugar adds to the dough I would use more water simply because I like high hydratation doughs.
Title: Re: Dessert Pizza from Novemberís Dessert Dough
Post by: norma427 on June 13, 2012, 03:32:29 PM
So I convert November's recipe to percentages

50% of Bread flour
50% of All-purpose flour
29% of Water
29% of 2% evaporated milk
3.5% of Apple cider vinegar
9.7% of Unsalted butter
2.4% of Dark brown sugar
1.4% of kosher salt
1/2 T of cinnamon
.7 IDY

Based on the numbers it looks like is 61.5% of liquid but I also don't know how much hydratation the butter and sugar adds to the dough I would use more water simply because I like high hydratation doughs.

RamirOk,

Thanks so much for converting Novemberís number to baker percents.  :)  I donít know if I used 2% evaporated milk, it was just called evaporated milk.  I didnít think the dough felt like 61.9% hydration.  I donít know what kind of AP and  Bread flour November used, but I used Better for Bread and KAAP. 

Glad to hear you also like high hydration doughs.  Good luck if you try out Novemberís recipe!  :)

Norma
Title: Re: Dessert Pizza from Novemberís Dessert Dough
Post by: Pete-zza on June 13, 2012, 03:49:28 PM
Ramiro and Norma,

A good place to do the kind of analysis that is necessary to determine the "effective" hydration of November's dough is the Nutritiondata.self.com website at http://nutritiondata.self.com/. If you look at the Nutrition Facts for evaporated milk (I did not see a 2% version), cider vinegar, brown sugar (light or brown) and unsalted butter, and do some simple calculations, you will see that the above ingredients have the following percents of water:

Evaporated milk: about 72.8% water
Cider vinegar: about 92% water
Brown sugar: about 1.4% water
Unsalted butter: about 17.9%

Applying those percents to the amounts of those ingredients in November's dough formulation, I get a water contribution from those ingredients of 75.462 grams. Adding that amount to 84 grams of water, and dividing that quantity by 288 grams (144 grams + 144 grams), the "effective" hydration is about 55.4%. The dough might feel a bit wetter if we take into account the effects of the fats in the unsalted butter and the fat content of the evaporated milk.

I will leave to you how best to increase the total effective hydration if a higher value is desired.

Peter
Title: Re: Dessert Pizza from Novemberís Dessert Dough
Post by: RamirOk on June 13, 2012, 07:28:29 PM
Thanks Pete, I'm going to bookmark that site.
Now with 55.4% hydratation I can see why Norma feel the dough to be very dry.
Title: Re: Dessert Pizza from Novemberís Dessert Dough
Post by: norma427 on June 13, 2012, 07:54:54 PM
Ramiro and Norma,

A good place to do the kind of analysis that is necessary to determine the "effective" hydration of November's dough is the Nutritiondata.self.com website at http://nutritiondata.self.com/. If you look at the Nutrition Facts for evaporated milk (I did not see a 2% version), cider vinegar, brown sugar (light or brown) and unsalted butter, and do some simple calculations, you will see that the above ingredients have the following percents of water:

Evaporated milk: about 72.8% water
Cider vinegar: about 92% water
Brown sugar: about 1.4% water
Unsalted butter: about 17.9%

Applying those percents to the amounts of those ingredients in November's dough formulation, I get a water contribution from those ingredients of 75.462 grams. Adding that amount to 84 grams of water, and dividing that quantity by 288 grams (144 grams + 144 grams), the "effective" hydration is about 55.4%. The dough might feel a bit wetter if we take into account the effects of the fats in the unsalted butter and the fat content of the evaporated milk.

I will leave to you how best to increase the total effective hydration if a higher value is desired.

Peter

Peter,

Thanks for the link and also figuring out the hydration of Novemberís dough formulation.  I was aware of the Nutritiondata.self.com website from you figuring out different dough formulations, but was never good at figuring out how to do the calculations how to apply water content to then being able to figure out hydration. 

I see where Carnation has a 2% evaporated milk product at http://www.verybestbaking.com/Carnation/Products/Lowfat-Evaporated-Milk.aspx and how much fat that has in in the 2% evaporated milk product for the Nutrition Facts.  It says 0.5 g total fat.  The evaporate milk I used was Shurfine evaporated milk at http://caloriecount.about.com/calories-shurfine-evaporated-milk-i214784 which contains 2.0 g total fat. 

I am not sure how much I am going to up the water in Novemberís formulation if I try the Carnation 2% evaporated milk product or try the Shurfine evaporated milk product, but will post next week on what I did.

I can now see why the dough felt dry too.

Norma
Title: Re: Dessert Pizza from Novemberís Dessert Dough
Post by: norma427 on June 17, 2012, 10:51:49 AM
I mixed another attempt at Novemberís dessert dough this morning and changed the water to 110 grams.  I also substituted MFB shortening for the unsalted butter, because I wanted to see how the MFB shortening works in a dough.  The rest of the ingredients stayed the same.  The dough came together well and felt nice.  The dessert dough wasnít dry like the last time.

Norma
Title: Re: Dessert Pizza from Novemberís Dessert Dough
Post by: norma427 on June 20, 2012, 10:49:17 AM
I made a ďDutch Apple Pie PizzaĒ with this attempt with Novemberís dough formulation that I upped the hydration and also used MBF shortening.  This attempt was better than my last attempt, in oven spring and also taste in the crust.

I used sweet snitz apples and prepared them Monday evening by boiling them with water, added a little bit of cinnamon and a little bit of sugar.  When the apple mixture had cooled I added a couple of squeezes of lemon juice to give a little tarter taste.  I also prepared the streusel Monday evening by combining 1 cup Ultragrain flour, 1 cup light brown sugar and Ĺ cup of butter.  That was also refrigerated until Tuesday.  The icing was prepared using Peterís directions of using 1 cup powdered sugar, 3 ĺ teaspoons warm water, 1 teaspoon of Karo syrup, 3/8 teaspoons of real vanilla and a dash of salt and refrigerated.

This dough ball opened easily and didnĎt feel dry. The apple snitz mixture was applied on the skin, then the streusel.  The pizza was then baked, cooled, then the icing was applied with my one squeeze bottle with a tip.  The resulting taste of the ďDutch Apple Pie PizzaĒ was really good.  My taste testers had a few slices and really enjoyed it.  Steve also took home a slice for his wife and she really liked it too.  I saved two slices for today.  One is for my mom and one is for me.  I really like dessert pizzas.  ;D

Norma
Title: Re: Dessert Pizza from Novemberís Dessert Dough
Post by: norma427 on June 20, 2012, 10:50:32 AM
Norma
Title: Re: Dessert Pizza from Novemberís Dessert Dough
Post by: norma427 on June 20, 2012, 10:51:14 AM
Norma
Title: Re: Dessert Pizza from Novemberís Dessert Dough
Post by: norma427 on June 20, 2012, 10:52:33 AM
Norma
Title: Re: Dessert Pizza from Novemberís Dessert Dough
Post by: norma427 on June 20, 2012, 10:53:20 AM
Norma
Title: Re: Dessert Pizza from Novemberís Dessert Dough
Post by: norma427 on June 20, 2012, 10:54:28 AM
Norma
Title: Re: Dessert Pizza from Novemberís Dessert Dough
Post by: norma427 on June 20, 2012, 10:56:16 AM
Norma
Title: Re: Dessert Pizza from Novemberís Dessert Dough
Post by: norma427 on June 20, 2012, 10:57:10 AM
Norma
Title: Re: Dessert Pizza from Novemberís Dessert Dough
Post by: norma427 on June 20, 2012, 10:57:59 AM
Norma
Title: Re: Dessert Pizza from Novemberís Dessert Dough
Post by: norma427 on June 20, 2012, 10:58:53 AM
Norma
Title: Re: Dessert Pizza from Novemberís Dessert Dough
Post by: November on June 24, 2012, 01:14:35 PM
Not too shabby.  I have always found the vanilla sauce (or icing) to be over-the-top for any kind of fruit dessert, so I generally avoid it unless for visual effect only.  More to the philosophical point in this case though, Dutch desserts are meant to be centered around fruit and spice flavors.  The Netherlands used be be a major player in the spice trade, which is why the use of cinnamon and nutmeg is a defining tradition of many Dutch desserts.  To me, a good Dutch or Pennsylvania Dutch dessert should be spicy, nutty, or fruity; and not so much sugary.  As a related point of interest, I'm nearly half Dutch.

- red.november
Title: Re: Dessert Pizza from Novemberís Dessert Dough
Post by: norma427 on June 24, 2012, 03:41:42 PM
Not too shabby.  I have always found the vanilla sauce (or icing) to be over-the-top for any kind of fruit dessert, so I generally avoid it unless for visual effect only.  More to the philosophical point in this case though, Dutch desserts are meant to be centered around fruit and spice flavors.  The Netherlands used be be a major player in the spice trade, which is why the use of cinnamon and nutmeg is a defining tradition of many Dutch desserts.  To me, a good Dutch or Pennsylvania Dutch dessert should be spicy, nutty, or fruity; and not so much sugary.  As a related point of interest, I'm nearly half Dutch.

- red.november

November,

Thanks for posting that the ďDutch Apple PieĒ wasnít to shabby.  I really like your dessert dough.  :) I did purchase some 2% evaporated milk to use in another attempt for this week, but am not sure what kind of dessert pizza I will attempt.  I think I am also going to up the hydration a little bit more.  I do like light and airy crumbs.  Since you are so good with spices and ideas, do you have a combination of dessert pizza dressings that you think might be good?  I didnít know the Netherlands used to be a major player in the spice trade and that is why cinnamon and nutmeg are a defining tradition of many Dutch desserts.

I donít think the ďDutch Apple PieĒ really had much sweetness from the small amount of icing that was added.  I think that the lemon juice squeezed in with the sweet snitz apples offset the sweetness, but that might not be your opinion.

I do live right in the heart of Pa. Dutch or Amish country.  Interesting that you are half Dutch.  I think, but am not sure, that I am all German.

Norma
Title: Re: Dessert Pizza from Novemberís Dessert Dough
Post by: norma427 on June 29, 2012, 09:19:29 AM
I didnít have time to use the next iteration of Novemberís dessert dough at market on Tuesday, so I just brought the dough ball home and placed it in the fridge until last evening.  It is hot in our area and I really didnít want to turn on the oven, but decided since it was a little cooler last evening to try the bake.  I didnít want to attempt this pie today because it is supposed to get to around 96 degrees F today.   

I had used Carnation 2% evaporated milk in this next attempt and also had used more water in the formulation than my last attempt.  The dough ball smelled good and had bottom fermentation since Tuesday, but didnít bubble at all on the rough top of the dough ball.  I even placed the dough ball outside for 2 hrs. (in the heat) to see what would happen, but it still didnít bubble at all on the top of the dough ball.

I decided to try different toppings for this pizza and sure didnít know how they would work out.  I have a recipe for cheesecake cupcakes and just made part of the recipe.  I thought cheesecake and fresh fruit might go together okay and maybe since the cheesecake batter was going to be spread thin it might bake in a short while at higher temperatures. 

I usually try to have a lot of fresh fruit at home to eat this time of year, so I used part of all the fresh fruit I had at home.  I used fresh picked raspberries, fresh bing cherries, peaches, apricots, kiwi fruit, and fresh blueberries as part of the toppings.  I also thought they are going to give off a lot of juice when baking, so squeezed lemon juice was used on each fruit (some to keep the peaches from browning) and then added some cornstarch to each fruit to see if that would help keep the juices down, or make the juices a little thicker.

The dough was very easy to open, and then orange marmalade was applied thinly, then the cheesecake batter.  The dough and dressings were then baked.  The cheesecake batter did bake enough in the short while  Then the fruits were applied with some added lemon zests.  The pie was put back into the oven to get the fruits finished right on the screen.  After the pie was taken out of the oven fresh spearmint tea leaves were applied to the top of the pie. 

I thought the finished pie turned out well, in that the juices of the fruit didnít migrate into the crust.  The taste of the dessert pizza was very good with the fresh fruits, cheesecake, lemon zest, mint and orange marmalade.  It was like a flavor explosion in my mouth.  ;D I donít know why the crust turned out a little bit denser though, but guess it was a good thing it did to hold up all those toppings.  I am going to give my mom a few slices today because she loves dessert pizzas.  All in all, this dessert pizza turned out better than I thought it would.  The bottom crust also browned evenly.

Last picture is of the spearmint tea in my garden.  I also really like fresh spearmint tea.   

Norma
Title: Re: Dessert Pizza from Novemberís Dessert Dough
Post by: norma427 on June 29, 2012, 09:20:32 AM
Norma
Title: Re: Dessert Pizza from Novemberís Dessert Dough
Post by: norma427 on June 29, 2012, 09:22:02 AM
Norma
Title: Re: Dessert Pizza from Novemberís Dessert Dough
Post by: norma427 on June 29, 2012, 09:23:11 AM
Norma
Title: Re: Dessert Pizza from Novemberís Dessert Dough
Post by: norma427 on June 29, 2012, 09:24:06 AM
Norma
Title: Re: Dessert Pizza from Novemberís Dessert Dough
Post by: norma427 on June 29, 2012, 09:24:58 AM
Norma
Title: Re: Dessert Pizza from Novemberís Dessert Dough
Post by: norma427 on June 29, 2012, 09:25:50 AM
Norma
Title: Re: Dessert Pizza from Novemberís Dessert Dough
Post by: norma427 on June 29, 2012, 09:26:30 AM
Norma
Title: Re: Dessert Pizza from Novemberís Dessert Dough
Post by: norma427 on June 29, 2012, 09:28:24 AM
Norma