• #1 by barryvabeach on 08 May 2017
  • Villa Roma started us off with a series of posts on 100% whole wheat,   and I followed in his footsteps for quite some time, though at first, I did not get very good results, which I quickly learned was because he was using a LBE, and I was using a home oven that barely got to 500F. .  After a lot of experimentation, things got much better. 
     I have found a recipe and workflow that works well for me, in a Blackstone, not sure how it will work for others. 

    Current version of the recipe is as follows,   night before, refresh a little starter from the fridge at 75% hydration  ( don't need much, so I usually only keep 15 or 20 grams in the fridge at a time )

    Mixing day  .
    Flour             260  grams          100% Home milled Winter White Wheat
    Water             185 grams         ( around 71% hydration, but this is pretty flexible,  I go anywhere from 180 to 190 depending on whim and how much
                                                    water I tended to dump in the flour )
    Starter         15 to 19 grams     I tend to the lower number in the warmer months, the higher number in colder months .
    Salt                7 grams

    I mix in a DLX mixer a minute or two to incorporate the ingredients, then up the speed and knead till it comes together, but it should not looked like a finished dough.  I can't recall who first used the phrase here, but it should look halfway between cottage cheese and finished dough.

    Put in a container with a little spray of oil and cover, and let sit at room temp 8 to 12 hours -  I am shooting for increase in volume by one half, but have had no problems if it is a bit more or a bit less,  once you get the increase, deflate and round the dough, but now it should feel much more like finished dough ,  then form into a ball and cold ferment a day or two.

    An hour or so before back time, take it out of fridge, let it warm up for the hour, then stretch, dress ,  and load into oven.  I am using a BS, and for me, and ideal heat is around 750 on the bottom stone measured with IR gun.  When I tried Villa's recipes in a home oven, I was less than impressed, and my guess is something about the whole wheat requires a more intense heat, and the same is true for this recipe.

    I recently modded my BS to add a door, but even without that, it will still bake fine -  anywhere from 1:45 to 2:30 depending on how high the  temp it.      I then put it in a warm oven on a pizza screen to rest a few minutes, and to preheat a pizza pan.  Then take out the pie, and put it on the pan and cut and serve.   The first photo is a pie with the door mod, the second photo is a pie before the door mod. 

  • #2 by Jon in Albany on 08 May 2017
  • Do you do anything to the fresh milled flour like sifting or is it just run through the mill on a fine setting?

    Edit: Actually now that's I read the title of the thread, that a dumb question. I was curious because I've flirted with the idea of getting a mill.
  • #3 by barryvabeach on 09 May 2017
  • Jon,  not a dumb question, there are many at the Fresh Loaf that run it through a mill and sift out some of the bran.  I just use a fine setting. The primary advantages, IMO, of a mill are the reputed health benefits of whole wheat.  I use the whole berry,  but others feel that even with sifting out some of the bran, they have a fresher and better product than store bought whole wheat.  The main drawback is that a new mill is pretty expensive, though I buy older ones of ebay for a few hundred.   The picture shows some of what is milled out or removed in commercial production of white flour
  • #4 by Jon in Albany on 09 May 2017
  • When I look for a mill, I've been looking on Craigslist. There was a nice looking one on the other side of the state. If work had sent in me in that direction I would have gotten it.
  • #5 by quietdesperation on 09 May 2017
  • thanks for this! I like the idea of eating something even marginally more healthy and your pizza looks awesome.  I'm a complete noob to the idea of home milling, where does one find whole berrys and do you have a recommendation for a mill?

    thanks again!
  • #6 by barryvabeach on 09 May 2017
  •  Berries can be found in a number of places, but you may have to special order and order in bulk. The places with the best selection are organic food stores, or specialty healthy food stores, though you may have to ask how to order  25 or 50 pound bags.  The organic food store near me lets you preorder in bulk online, and you pick it up a few days later.  If you just want to get started,  Whole Foods sells them in the bulk food section where you use their scoop to put it in a bag - the price near me is surprisingly good, but not really suited to getting more than a few pounds at a time in their bags.  They may let you buy in bulk, but since most of their stuff is quite expensive, I don't shop there much.   Another option is the church of the Latter Day Saints  LDS-  they have food stores located in many parts of the country, though none near me, and you don't have to be a member to shop there. 

    As to mills,  my favorite is the Lee Household Mill -  you would want the S-600 or S-500 - both let you adjust the coarseness, the S - 600 is more powerful.   They come up pretty regularly on ebay,( this one is pretty complete, though it is missing the lid for the hopper  )  the white colored models are newer vintage, the grey ones are older, but so far every one except one has worked fine.  One had a motor that would run for a few minutes then overheat and shut down, unfortunately it is not cost effective to rewind the motor, and the arbor is pretty specific so a motor replacement is pretty expensive.  Like anything on ebay, it really pays off to search a number of completed listings before bidding, so you get a good idea of a fair price, and what should be included.  Most commonly they are offered without a collection bag - which is pretty easy to replace by getting a vacuum bag from Home Depot,  and often without a hopper,  a little harder to replace, but I make them out of old juice jugs and an adapter.   The benefit of the Lee is that it mills flour unbelievably fine, and is the best engineered, IMO -  it uses air to basically hurl the berries at a stone over and over until the flour passes through a mesh at the rear of the machine.  Most other mills that use a stone have one stone turning above, or next to, a  fixed stone, and there is an adjustment that changes the distance between the two stones.  Since the two stones are never exactly coplanar, IMO, you get more variety in the size of the flour being discharged in comparison to the Lee.  The downside of the Lee is that it uses a universal motor,  which can wear out. Most stone mills use a heavy duty universal motor, which last a very long time.

    For stone mills, the two main options are horizontal stones or vertical.  The All Grain Mill is probably the most compact - this is the older style   the hopper is built into the machine, but you would have to add a flour bag, and the adjustment of the distance between the stones is not very precise.   This is the newer style, the discharge chute has gone from round to a rectangle that is designed to fit on a plastic bin - which you can still order I think, though they are about $50.  You can fabricate a collection bin, but it is pretty hard.  The advantage is that the distance between the stones is set with a lever on the bottom and is much more precise.

    There are a number of other machines where the stones are front and back, not top and bottom -  this one shows a great photo of the two stones     There were tons of makers of these, and all the same principle, heavy duty induction motor, and two stones, with a hopper on top and a flour bin on bottom and an adjustment wheel, usually on the front.  Some don't like them since the flour drops into  a bin, not a bag, so there is some residual flour always in the machine and some escapes into the air, though I don't see it as a big problem.  The major issue is that the machine is pretty heavy, and has a big footprint.  Unlike the ones with external hoppers or bags, usually these machines usually are complete. 

    Many people believe impact machines heat up the grain too much, not sure if that is true, but they are extremely loud, even when they are not grinding flour, and use universal motors that make buying used a little more risky.

    If you have a KA, they make an attachment called the Mock Mill -  I have never used it, but read a few positive reviews, it uses smaller stones than a typical machine, so the output would be slower, but it is under $200 new

    Any other questions, let me know. There are not many people into home milling, but the more I can drive that up, the better .  BTW,  once you get a mill, pretty soon you will stop buying bread at the store, since home milled bread tastes so much better. 

  • #7 by Jon in Albany on 09 May 2017
  • The one I wanted to get was a used Komo but it was in Buffalo for $100. Never made it out there in time. I'll have to keep an eye out for these too. Thanks.
  • #8 by barryvabeach on 10 May 2017
  • Jon,  I didn't mention the Komo, because it is almost never available used, and when it is, it is normally the classic, and I have never seen one used for less than $200,  usually $300 or more, so that would have been a steal.    There is some confusion about the Nutrimill Harvest Stone mill
       It looks very much like the Komo, and there was some suggestion that it was a knockoff, others said it was made by the same manufacturer.   I bought one when it first came out and the stones on my clogged within the first few uses, and I returned i.  There are a few reviews on Amazon which say it does not produce as fine a grain as the Komo, but  I have not seen many reviews that match my results, and I may just have gotten a lomon.    I have a Komo as well.  It is more compact that an All Grain mill, looks nicer, and uses a different discharge system, so you don't need a bag to catch the flour, but iIMO , the Lee is a much better deal. 
  • #9 by Jon in Albany on 10 May 2017
  • I've got to ask. many flour mills do you have?

    Thanks again. This is great information.
  • #10 by timgiuffi on 10 May 2017
  • Thanks for all the info Barry. I've been thinking about getting a mill for while but never really looked past the Komo. It's nice to know there are cheaper options.  It'll probably have to wait until we move though.
  • #11 by barryvabeach on 10 May 2017
  • Jon,  I don't think I have more mills than I have mixers, but I could be mistaken.  I started out buying a few to give to friends, then found different types of machines,  and tried them out.  I think I spent less on the first five than I would have buying one new komo, and I have resold a few.  I bought a few of them at really low prices because they were broken or missing pieces, and I have restored a few and have not gotten around to reselling them.  Right now, I mainly use just the Lee, though I keep that in a garage, and have the Komo in the house and use that from time to time. 
  • #12 by barryvabeach on 15 May 2017
  • I normally make a large pie in a BS,  eat some slices, then take in the rest to a coworker who grew up in NY . I dropped off 4 slices on her desk this morning. When I came back to my office, this is what I found on my desk.   Regular 100% white whole wheat,  Hunts peeled tomatoes that I put it a food processor, and added a little garlic salt and red wine vinegar,  topped with part skim moz.     
  • #13 by quietdesperation on 16 May 2017
  • just saw your reply on the mills/whole wheat, thank you for taking the time to provide so much detail. Coincidentally, I had my annual checkup today and had a conversation with my doctor about the best ways to avoid cancer (it runs in my family). He cited emerging evidence that a low carb diet results in lower cancer rates.  His suggestion was to eat complex carbs and make meat a side dish. So I'll definitely be giving your recipe a try!

    on another note, that's a really nice note from your colleague, sounds like your pizza is sublime!

  • #14 by barryvabeach on 16 May 2017
  • Thanks,  I posted it because most people think dense, very strong taste when they think whole wheat, but with winter white wheat,  the taste profile is nowhere near as strong as red wheat, and while you don't get the same airiness as white flour, it is still pretty good.