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Author Topic: Malnatis (Ghee vs. Corn Oil)  (Read 5115 times)

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Offline pizzard

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Malnatis (Ghee vs. Corn Oil)
« on: March 16, 2014, 01:01:05 AM »
Note:  Ghee is also known as clarified butter.  This is pure butter fat as the whey is removed.

I have been experimenting with melted ghee vs. corn oil for my deep dish pizza.  The recipe I have been following is courtesy of Pythonic.  However, for whatever reason, I decided to try melted ghee instead of corn oil.  The dough I made ended up in the fridge for a two days, due to a change in plans on the day I made it.  This increased flavor development.

The most notable difference between using melted ghee instead of corn oil was the ease of working with the dough.  It molded beautifully up against the side of the pan, and did not slide down, which has been a consistent problem when I make deep dish. 

Here are a few pics...and the recipe again was adopted from an earlier Pythonic post with alterations made to fat and oil only and a doubling of the original recipe.  I would have used 100% ghee, but I ran out, so balanced it out with 15 grams of corn oil.

404 g Flour - I used a high gluten/pizza flour
186 g - H2O
60 g - ghee
15 g - corn oil
2 g - active dry yeast (not highly active)

PS...I made Phythonics thin crust with ghee and again had really nice results with the crispness of the crust. 








Offline rapidsgrand

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Re: Malnatis (Ghee vs. Corn Oil)
« Reply #1 on: March 16, 2014, 08:29:14 PM »
Did your crust have a nutty taste?

Offline pizzard

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Re: Malnatis (Ghee vs. Corn Oil)
« Reply #2 on: March 20, 2014, 12:33:28 AM »
Did your crust have a nutty taste?

No, I can't say that I noticed a nutty taste...it was really delicious though.  Keep in mind, it did ferment for a full 48 hours before I made the pizza.  The most notable difference was the structure of the dough.  It was so easy to work with, and the crust was crisp.  I would imagine using this much saturated fat vs. the polyunsaturated fat found in corn oil is the primary reason.

Offline biondanonima

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Re: Malnatis (Ghee vs. Corn Oil)
« Reply #3 on: June 04, 2014, 04:05:00 PM »
I was reading through various DD dough formulations the other day and I was wondering if anyone had tried ghee instead of whole butter.  Looks like it works out well.  Must keep this in mind for experimentation!

Offline The Dough Doctor

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Re: Malnatis (Ghee vs. Corn Oil)
« Reply #4 on: June 04, 2014, 05:05:46 PM »
We have been showing our students those same benefits of using a "plastic" fat (Ghee, margarine, butter, Crisco, etc) in forming the dough into the pan as opposed to using oil. In fact we hold a contest where one group of students try to fit the dough into an oiled pan while the other group fits the dough into a "greased" pan. We all know which group won that contest. The biggest difference between using oil and shortening in the pan is that shortening/plastic fat gives the finished pizza a drier looking crust than the oil does. Some of our students have compared it to a bread crust/heel slice, while the oil provides a fried characteristic to the finished crust. In many cases we have used a plastic fat to coat the inside edge of the deep-dish pan and oil to cover the bottom of the pan, this way you get the best of both worlds, ease of forming the dough to the pan while still getting a fried crust characteristic, of course if you don't want that oily crust just go with all plastic fat. For a unique flavor sometime try sprinkling raw sesame seeds into the pan before you drop in the dough and begin pressing it out. The seeds bake into the bottom of the crust and provide a great toasted sesame flavor to the finished crust. This is already making me hungry!
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Offline Mick.Chicago

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Re: Malnatis (Ghee vs. Corn Oil)
« Reply #5 on: June 14, 2014, 06:51:21 AM »
When it comes to shrinkage while forming the dough, I just crimp harder and faster,  with a Malnati style pizza that's OK as you generally have a very thin taper anyway.

I never oil my pans as they are well seasoned and most DD doughs shouldn't need it even on a fresh pan.

Offline The Dough Doctor

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Re: Malnatis (Ghee vs. Corn Oil)
« Reply #6 on: June 16, 2014, 04:45:28 PM »
One of the main reasons for using fat/oil in a deep-dish pan is to achieve a fried characteristic to the baked crust. Oil is very good at providing this characteristic while shortening on the other hand gives a finished crust that is more like that of white pan bread. The shortening also provides for some grip to help hold the dough in place while trying to press the dough out into the pan with oil can be an exercise in futility unless the dough is REALLY soft and relaxed..
Tom Lehmann/The Dough Doctor

Offline pizzard

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Re: Malnatis (Ghee vs. Corn Oil)
« Reply #7 on: June 22, 2014, 12:13:10 AM »
I can't recall if I actually used the ghee to "grease" the pan, but it was the predominant fat used in the dough recipe.  One of the benefits of using ghee over butter is that it has a much high smoke point...~400 F. 

I was really pleased with the textural properties of the pizza, and will continue to experiment with both ghee and corn oil to find the perfect ratio. 

On another note...both the Malnati's Chicago style and thin crust I made using ghee had that unmistakeable biscuit crunch.

Tom, I had not given much consideration to the difference between using an "oil" vs. a "fat" in either the dough, or for greasing...thank you for commenting.

Offline Garvey

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Re: Malnatis (Ghee vs. Corn Oil)
« Reply #8 on: May 14, 2021, 10:51:27 PM »
Thread necro--I did a search to find if anyone had used ghee instead of butter in the dough and found this.

So I'll go ahead and ask: anyone else here try ghee?  Ed, maybe, ever the mad scientist?

I am going to make DD this weekend and was committed to using butter this time instead of just oil, and we happened to pick up a giant jar of ghee today, so I got to thinking... ghee is already soft and I'm absolutely a fan of cutting corners...


Offline Bill/SFNM

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Re: Malnatis (Ghee vs. Corn Oil)
« Reply #9 on: May 14, 2021, 11:28:16 PM »
Thread necro--I did a search to find if anyone had used ghee instead of butter in the dough and found this.

So I'll go ahead and ask: anyone else here try ghee?  Ed, maybe, ever the mad scientist?

I am going to make DD this weekend and was committed to using butter this time instead of just oil, and we happened to pick up a giant jar of ghee today, so I got to thinking... ghee is already soft and I'm absolutely a fan of cutting corners...

I also got a big jar of ghee recently at Costco and tried it in my last batch of pan pizzas. I think browned clarified butter gives a better flavor. I put it in the dough and greased the pans with it.

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Offline Garvey

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Re: Malnatis (Ghee vs. Corn Oil)
« Reply #10 on: May 15, 2021, 10:23:35 AM »
It makes sense that browned butter would have more flavor.  Did ghee itself impart some buttery flavor or create any texture differences for you, Bill (or anyone else who's tried it)?

Our use of ghee has always been Persian food, which has a lot going on, flavor-wise, so my ghee experience outside of that is basically nil.

Thanks.

Offline Garvey

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Re: Malnatis (Ghee vs. Corn Oil)
« Reply #11 on: May 15, 2021, 10:27:29 AM »
I also wonder if ghee could be used for laminating, or is it inherently too soft and might just absorb too easily?

Offline Bill/SFNM

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Re: Malnatis (Ghee vs. Corn Oil)
« Reply #12 on: May 15, 2021, 01:34:48 PM »
It makes sense that browned butter would have more flavor.  Did ghee itself impart some buttery flavor or create any texture differences for you, Bill (or anyone else who's tried it)?

Our use of ghee has always been Persian food, which has a lot going on, flavor-wise, so my ghee experience outside of that is basically nil.

Thanks.

I mostly use ghee for its high smoke point on my crepe maker when baking dosa or jianbang.

Offline Garvey

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Re: Malnatis (Ghee vs. Corn Oil)
« Reply #13 on: May 16, 2021, 01:09:17 PM »
Ghee!  Ghee!  Ghee!

Ok, I think I have found my Holy Grail.

Most of the time making DD, I go with just oil, no butter.  Usually a mix of corn and olive.  But the last couple of times, I found myself wanting more flavor in the dough and thought I'd go back to doing some butter with the oil (usually something like 7% butter + 17% oil).

Well, we got a big jar of ghee the other day, and I thought, "Why use butter, which needs to be softened, etc., and is kinda messy, when I have all this ghee?  Should be just as good, perhaps.

So I came here to see what the conventional wisdom was, and the experience from Bill and Pizzard suggested it was worth a shot.

Well, the results are in: ghee was awesome!  It was easy to work with the dough, and the final product had a lot of buttery flavor. 

I can write up the whole recipe in a new thread if anyone wants, but basically:

Flour 100
Water 52
Corn Oil 11
Ghee 9
IDY 1
Sugar 1
Salt 1.5

450g dough ball for sausage/spinach/mushroom
600g for "the Lou" (spinach/mushroom/tomato)

I prefer less dough, normally 398g, but when working with spinach, I add about 10% extra, so 450 is at the top of my range.  The 600g was actually well balanced for that other pie, which was more heavily laden with spinach and other veggies, and wife and child like more dough anyway.

Nice structure.  Sturdy, liftable pieces for hand-eating.


Offline pizzard

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Re: Malnatis (Ghee vs. Corn Oil)
« Reply #14 on: May 24, 2021, 07:37:39 PM »
Ha! I posted that in 2014, but I still use ghee as the primary fat in DD pizza dough, along w/corn oil. I melt mine first, but will try to add in its softened state next time.

Ghee is pricey, so make sure you are buying 100% pure ghee vs. a blend, which may be labeled to look like pure ghee.

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Offline pizzard

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Re: Malnatis (Ghee vs. Corn Oil)
« Reply #15 on: August 04, 2021, 02:24:51 PM »
I tried the dough using soft ghee vs. melting it and was really happy with the results. The leftover dough stayed in the fridge and extra day or two and using the lamination method of folding the dough over on itself, produced a nice thin, as well.

I don't believe Malnati's uses of ghee as it is expensive and is not noted as such on their frozen pizzas, but there is something to be said about getting back to using saturated fat in cooking to enhance both flavor and texture.


Offline Garvey

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Re: Malnatis (Ghee vs. Corn Oil)
« Reply #16 on: August 05, 2021, 09:23:11 AM »
Really nice looking pies!  I'm intrigued by that thin crust.  What oil+ghee % are you using for this dough.  Usually, when I've made thin with leftover DD dough, it's looked nothing like that.

Offline pizzard

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Re: Malnatis (Ghee vs. Corn Oil)
« Reply #17 on: August 20, 2021, 12:07:52 AM »
I will work to standardize this recipe in the near future...kind of mad at myself for not taking better notes. It is likely most similar to the many Lou Malnati recipes that have already been posted. I'm pretty sure I used straight up ghee (softened not melted) for this one. It did ferment for two days both in the house and outside at night (So-Cal night temps are perfect for fermenting dough outside). The thin crust would have been made after fermenting for three days.

Hope this helps in the meantime.

PS...I cook the pizzas on steel (Modernist Cuisine) after hitting it with the broiler for an hour.

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