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  • #521 by EthanPizza on 20 May 2021
  • EthanPizza,

    You might take a look at this post, at Reply 151 at:

    https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=576.msg11774#msg11774

    The above post was in 2005 and at a time where I did not know much about preferments, including poolish, but my recollection is that I regularly fed my sourdough starter with equal amounts of flour and water by weight.

    Peter

    Nicely! Looks like my direct dough with my 1:1:1 flour/water/starter sourdough approach, only NY style instead of Contemporary Neapolitan. That crust air looks amazing on that pie. I generally did around 16% starter when using my Starter. Why I'm in love with the poolish, is it allows me to create a preferment with 8:8:1 flour/water/starter, which seems to allow me to bake in my roccbox in 1 to 2 minutes without the gummy issues I had been struggling with.
  • #522 by mrabear13 on 07 Jun 2021
  • Hello All

    I started up my Ischia Culture about a month ago and have finally made a few batches of pizza with it, following TXCraig's method as closely as I can (thanks Criag!). It seems to be working well and making great pies (my goal is to perfect the classic Neapolitan Style).

    My question for those with more experience using Ischia cultures, is about flavor. These pizzas are tasting wonderful when I get a bite with the toppings, but when I eat the crust alone it has a very strong sourdough flavor. I am left with a lingering tangy aftertaste less reminiscent of pizza and more like a slice of strong sourdough bread from a bakery or deli. Is this the flavor you get when you use a sourdough culture? I could understand it might be the whole point, and maybe just not be for me personally. But I also see a lot of posts about how different a mature starter is from a newer one. Does this sour taste diminish as the culture matures?

    Thanks in advance for any and all thoughts!
  • #523 by HansB on 07 Jun 2021
  • Hello All

    I started up my Ischia Culture about a month ago and have finally made a few batches of pizza with it, following TXCraig's method as closely as I can (thanks Criag!). It seems to be working well and making great pies (my goal is to perfect the classic Neapolitan Style).

    My question for those with more experience using Ischia cultures, is about flavor. These pizzas are tasting wonderful when I get a bite with the toppings, but when I eat the crust alone it has a very strong sourdough flavor. I am left with a lingering tangy aftertaste less reminiscent of pizza and more like a slice of strong sourdough bread from a bakery or deli. Is this the flavor you get when you use a sourdough culture? I could understand it might be the whole point, and maybe just not be for me personally. But I also see a lot of posts about how different a mature starter is from a newer one. Does this sour taste diminish as the culture matures?

    Thanks in advance for any and all thoughts!

    Your feeding regimen and temp determines the flavor of your starter. How often do you feed your starter?
  • #524 by sk on 08 Jun 2021
  • Expanding on what HansB said.  The longer the culture rests after feeding, the stronger it becomes.  Once you understand your particular culture's habits, you can make dough just but before or at peak rise of the culture.  At that point, Ischia is very mild.  Warmer temperatures will also result in it reaching peak at a faster rate.
  • #525 by Brent-r on 08 Jun 2021
  • Daniel DiMusio has a book "Baking Bread" and in it he has a few pages on how time, temperature and water percentage effect the flavor of a dough.  He explains how yeast and lactobacilus favour one set of conditions, and or the other and can make either more alcohol/CO2 or acetic acid.  I can send you
    the details in pdf if you send me a private message with your email.
  • #526 by EthanPizza on 08 Jun 2021
  • Hello All

    I started up my Ischia Culture about a month ago and have finally made a few batches of pizza with it, following TXCraig's method as closely as I can (thanks Criag!). It seems to be working well and making great pies (my goal is to perfect the classic Neapolitan Style).

    My question for those with more experience using Ischia cultures, is about flavor. These pizzas are tasting wonderful when I get a bite with the toppings, but when I eat the crust alone it has a very strong sourdough flavor. I am left with a lingering tangy aftertaste less reminiscent of pizza and more like a slice of strong sourdough bread from a bakery or deli. Is this the flavor you get when you use a sourdough culture? I could understand it might be the whole point, and maybe just not be for me personally. But I also see a lot of posts about how different a mature starter is from a newer one. Does this sour taste diminish as the culture matures?

    Thanks in advance for any and all thoughts!

    The answer to your dilemma is easy. I create what I call a Sourdough Poolish. It's just a leaven/ starter with way different ratios. Whereas my starter takes 8 hours to peak and is made at a ratio of 1:1:1 flour/water/starter my leaven is 1:1:8 and it takes 20 hours to peak. Using less starter completely eliminates sourness while keeping delicious taste. I can use 20 to 50% leaven this way with amazing results.
  • #527 by mrabear13 on 08 Jun 2021
  • Thank you for all of your responses! It sounds like I have more control over the flavor than I realized.

    I keep my starter in the fridge, and pull it out to make dough each week or two. I feed it 1:1:1 right out of the fridge, and in about 4-6 hours it has tripled in volume, which I thought was the best time to use it. So that is the point where I take a bit for my pizza dough, 1.5-2.0% (its so sticky, I am never sure the exact grams that make it into the bowl). I put the rest of the starter, presumably still near its peak, right back in the fridge. So the starter is only out of the fridge for about 6 hours a week.

    Does my process raise any flavor flags to you all? I am also feeding my starter with white AP flour, but making pizza dough with 00 flour. Is that your common practice?

    I will respond to some of you directly for the advice you offered. Thanks again!
  • #528 by 02ebz06 on 08 Jun 2021
  • its so sticky, I am never sure the exact grams that make it into the bowl)

    Before you take some out to use, weigh the container with the starter.
    Weigh it again after you take some out.
    Subtract 2nd reading from 1st, and you know how much you took out.
    Easy to add or take away from there to get the amount you want.

    Weighing the empty container and writing the amount on it is always handy.
  • #529 by EthanPizza on 08 Jun 2021
  • Thank you for all of your responses! It sounds like I have more control over the flavor than I realized.

    I keep my starter in the fridge, and pull it out to make dough each week or two. I feed it 1:1:1 right out of the fridge, and in about 4-6 hours it has tripled in volume, which I thought was the best time to use it.

    try feeding a piece of it 1:1:8 (and the normal starter 1:1:1 and put that one back in the fridge.) the rise time will be much longer but I think it will fix all of your issues.
  • #530 by sk on 10 Jun 2021
  • Thank you for all of your responses! It sounds like I have more control over the flavor than I realized.

    I keep my starter in the fridge, and pull it out to make dough each week or two. I feed it 1:1:1 right out of the fridge, and in about 4-6 hours it has tripled in volume, which I thought was the best time to use it. So that is the point where I take a bit for my pizza dough, 1.5-2.0% (its so sticky, I am never sure the exact grams that make it into the bowl). I put the rest of the starter, presumably still near its peak, right back in the fridge. So the starter is only out of the fridge for about 6 hours a week.

    Does my process raise any flavor flags to you all? I am also feeding my starter with white AP flour, but making pizza dough with 00 flour. Is that your common practice?

    I will respond to some of you directly for the advice you offered. Thanks again!

    I do almost the same with my Ischia starter.  Out of fridge Thursday morning.  Feed Thursday night and again Friday morning.  Make pizza dough Friday night.  Leave starter out overnight.  Feed Saturday morning and put back in fridge.  Make pizza Saturday night after 24 hour proof. 

    My flavor profile is not sour at all.  It is very mild in fact. 
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