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Author Topic: Dough and cornicioni help  (Read 568 times)

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Offline shadowcloud

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Dough and cornicioni help
« on: June 07, 2022, 09:28:06 AM »
Hi, Iíve become a bit stuck, still a bit new on the journey and need a little bit of help problem solving.

I was initially making pizzas like this:
Caputo 00 red
60% hydration
3% salt
0.1% IDY
Mixing and kneading, letting rest in a big mass for 2hr at room temp before balling and going in the 4deg celcius (39F), thawing for about 3 hrs at RT, before baking them in a gozney roccbox at about 400 degrees celcius (750F), infra-red thermometer stone plate temperature. I weigh the flour and water out on scales accurate to the 1g, and weigh the yeast and salt out on scales accurate to 0.01g.

Photo 1 and Photo 2 were the typical net result (forgive the type of cheese, this was an experiment that went wrong).
The cornicioni and the dough tasted nice, probably because of the flour, but the cornicioni not as airy as I want. I could never get it to puff up any more. When I open the dough balls into the pizza, the cornicioni size is similar to what it is after itís baked (it doesnít rise much during the cook).

I was relatively happy with them for a beginners pizza but Iím striving for more. My first question is, any advice on where to go from there, or how could I improve that? I experimented with hydration up to 65% and salt down to 2%, and varying amount of days in the fridge and settled on 60% and 3% and 4days respectively. 65% is easier to open as it doesnít try and relax/shrink back as much once iíve opened it but requires a lot of care or I accidentally tear it, whereas 60% I can do the cheesy Ďthrow above my headí trick to impress guests who donít know any better, and the 60% consistently slides off the launcher without getting stuck, with any 65% dough, I feel like if I waste any time at all between making the pizza and launching it, it will stick to the peel.
3% salt seems to be more forgiving in the handling when opening up, so I think iíll stay with 60% and 3% unless somebody gives me a convincing reason to alter.

My second question, which Iíll get to: I wanted to get to a RT ferment for several reasons, mostly to try and get more flavours to come out of the fermenting, and thats what they do in Naples, plus itís hard to plan 4 days in advance, so cook-wise: Iíve used CraigTXís chart for a 24hr RT ferment
60% hydration, 3% salt, 0.05% at about 17 degrees celcius RT (I also did a batch at 65% hydration).
At 24hrs, very underfermented, the dough felt tight, didnít open up nicely, had too much memory kept trying to shrink when I opened it up. I had planned to eat a 65% and a 60%. I didnít take any photos of this but the cornicioni was very gummy internally, not that edible, for some reason the 65% was worse than the 60%.
I have since realised from the chart there is about 10 hrs more with 17 degrees C compared to 15 degrees C and I just canít control the temperature of the kitchen bench overnight so itís likely a temperature error on my behalf. I had a leftover 65% dough ball so I tried it at 48hrs. Much better, but still not as good as the initial 4D CF, this is the third photo.
My second question, the cornicioni from this example (photo 3), itís still a bit wet/gummy internally? What does this mean, what caused it and how do I prevent that? Itís happened to me a couple of times trying random RT ferment recipes from youtube etc, Iím going to go back to my 4D CF until I can work this out. Ideally iíd like a puffier more airy crust but at the moment Iíll be pleased if I can just get rid of that!

Many thanks, sorry itís a bit of a ramble!
« Last Edit: June 07, 2022, 09:29:54 AM by shadowcloud »

Offline Wario

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Re: Dough and cornicioni help
« Reply #1 on: June 07, 2022, 02:31:57 PM »
The pizza's look good but a little under fermented, reminiscent of what i had a while back. This was due to the fact that i dissolved the dry yeast in the cold water. Just adding the yeast dry to the flour, mixing it and then adding the cold water bit by bit solved it.

Maybe you dissolve the yeast in the cold water too?

Good luck with tackling the issue, hope this helps!

Offline shadowcloud

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Re: Dough and cornicioni help
« Reply #2 on: June 08, 2022, 07:29:09 PM »
I dissolve salt in slightly warm water, then add about 15% flour, mix thoroughly then add the yeast, then continually add and mix in the flour bit by bit (all by hand), so no cold water, but if it seems under fermented, my next move is to try a touch more yeast then.
Thanks!

Offline wotavidone

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Re: Dough and cornicioni help
« Reply #3 on: June 08, 2022, 07:43:39 PM »
I kinda lost my way a bit, had to go back and start again. If you sort through the Tom Lehmann stuff, you'll find commentary around re-hydrating yeast in cold water liberates/forms compounds that damage the gluten.
The recommendation is to use quite warm water for IDY.
I can't remember the exact number and too lazy  to look it up, but I've been doing better using water around 90-95F.
Mick

Offline Wario

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Re: Dough and cornicioni help
« Reply #4 on: June 09, 2022, 08:23:40 AM »
I dissolve salt in slightly warm water, then add about 15% flour, mix thoroughly then add the yeast, then continually add and mix in the flour bit by bit (all by hand), so no cold water, but if it seems under fermented, my next move is to try a touch more yeast then.
Thanks!
Try this instead: dissolve the salt in very cold water. Add the IDY dry to the flour, mix it thoroughly (with a hand mixer i.e.) and then poor the water in bit by bit.

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Offline Wario

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Re: Dough and cornicioni help
« Reply #5 on: June 09, 2022, 08:26:35 AM »
I kinda lost my way a bit, had to go back and start again. If you sort through the Tom Lehmann stuff, you'll find commentary around re-hydrating yeast in cold water liberates/forms compounds that damage the gluten.
The recommendation is to use quite warm water for IDY.
I can't remember the exact number and too lazy  to look it up, but I've been doing better using water around 90-95F.
This works too and was recently discussed in my topic here. Personally i find it easier to add the IDY to the dry flour.

Offline scott r

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Re: Dough and cornicioni help
« Reply #6 on: June 09, 2022, 08:40:10 AM »
Those pizzas look quite under fermented to me

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