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Author Topic: Switched to spiral mixer and dough too much gluten development, how to fix ?  (Read 550 times)

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Offline lennyk

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I have been using an Electrolux DLX/Assistent for years but due to increase capacity requirements I recently acquired a Famag IM8 spiral mixer.
However I find that my dough is now a little too well developed and tight compared to before.

My dough is 59% water, 2% oil with a 48hr cold ferment.
Dough typically stays compact first 24hrs and then expands nicely the second 24hrs.

The dough balls required more effort/time to stretch and also burn easier at my oven temps(800f)
They definitely feel drier, almost as though I reduced the hydration a couple %, dont know if that is why they burn easier.
Crust texture is a little tougher also.

I have observed this over 2 bakes of over 14 pies each time, so reliable observations.

The standard DLX mixing process is to add all cold water, idy, sugar, salt to bowl and add the flour incrementally otherwise it will not be evenly mixed.
This process would typically take 20mins with the 2.2kg of flour I was using as the last bits take some care to avoid dry clumping which is a problem with the batch volume I am doing.

With the spiral mixer I am adding all ingredients together and doing 3mins at lowest speed and then 3mins at slightly higher speed, about quarter turn of knob.

I am guessing that I will have to adjust lower mixing speed and or times.

Any suggestions ?

Offline amolapizza

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FWIW, in my sunmix 6 I throw everything into the bowl and let it go for 5 minutes at the lowest speed (68 rpm), when it's done it's dry to the touch and a bit shaggy looking, also doesn't pass a window pane test and tears quite easily.  After an hour of bulk it forms nice silky balls.

As water is part of the glutenin/gliadin bond, I guess that a dough will indeed appear drier if it has more gluten developed.
Jack

Effeuno P134H (500C), Biscotto Fornace Saputo, Sunmix Sun6, Caputo Pizzeria, Caputo Saccorosso, Mutti Pelati.

Offline scott r

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With a dough hydration close to 60 you wont want to go above the slowest speed in the famag.  Also, check your finished dough temps, they might be lower now than they were with the DLX and now you should use warmer water or up the yeast a bit.  Spirals are really great at mixing, so you might also want to up your hydration a little bit. 

Good luck!
« Last Edit: May 13, 2021, 10:38:50 AM by scott r »

Offline lennyk

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thanks, gonna try lower speed and up hydration a % or two.

yeah, with the dlx dough was never smooth when balling but still came out great after cf.

Offline scott r

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I had a dlx before (I have had way too many mixers!).   This is a whole new world, so you will for sure need to adjust.  The famag builds gluten very very fast.  Most important is finished dough temperature.   good luck!

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Offline lennyk

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I just finshed a batch, upped to 62% and ran for 6mins same speed, just slightly above lowest.
Seems better now and the hydration felt good.

It did seem for the first 4 mins that things were still coming together but in the last 60sec it all came together real quick.
Temps are good and cool. I live in hot humid so that is always a plus.

I appreciate how efficient these mixers are indeed.

Offline amolapizza

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It's a whole 'nother ballgame!
Jack

Effeuno P134H (500C), Biscotto Fornace Saputo, Sunmix Sun6, Caputo Pizzeria, Caputo Saccorosso, Mutti Pelati.

Offline scott r

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If it didnt fully come together until last minute you should be able to up the mix time a little bit.   Maybe next time give it another 2 minutes for a total of 8 min and compare.  The higher hydration probably helped.   

Offline lennyk

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I am gonna try these pies tomorrow, will leave them out a bit to kick the yeast in earlier as I used my normal 48hr ratio.

I like to be able to work fast and stretch on the table and use minimal holding up to stretch,
so my preference is towards an almost over fermented dough.

Offline RHawthorne

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What's you salt % at? Maybe try dropping it a little bit.
If we're not questioning the reason for our existence, then what the hell are we doing here?!

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Offline QwertyJuan

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With our spiral at work, and with high protein flour, we're at 68% and 2% oil. NO issues handling the dough. The spiral mixer makes all the difference in the world.

Offline lennyk

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dough came out perfect
« Last Edit: May 14, 2021, 07:42:28 PM by Pete-zza »

Offline lennyk

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400g ball 14 pie
« Last Edit: May 14, 2021, 07:43:11 PM by Pete-zza »

Offline QwertyJuan

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Looks great. What kinda cheese is it? Is it pre-shredded??

Offline lennyk

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yeah pre shred mozz from France I think. Fairly large grind, like 1/8 or thicker

Looks great. What kinda cheese is it? Is it pre-shredded??

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Offline QwertyJuan

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yeah pre shred mozz from France I think. Fairly large grind, like 1/8 or thicker

Thought so... you can see that it didn't melt very well. Preshredded does that because of the starch they add to prevent the cheese from sticking. Try grating your own. You'll be glad you did!!

Offline lennyk

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yes, of course the short bake times 1:45 or so dont help it puddle out too much
If I stretch to 2min it puddles out but a fine line before burning at 800f.

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