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Author Topic: First impressions and review of the Famag IM-5S Spiral mixer  (Read 4278 times)

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Offline billg

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Re: First impressions and review of the Famag IM-5S Spiral mixer
« Reply #120 on: July 31, 2021, 10:21:51 PM »
In the last 10 years I have owned a Hobart N50, Bosch Universal plus, Kitchen aid, Ankarsrum, Famag, Kenwood, and now the Sunmix 10.  I have made great dough from all of them.  Some had a larger learning curve than the others.  The Ankarsrum was probably the most difficult to learn and required the most attention ( but I liked it ).  In my humble opinion, none of these compare to the spiral mixer for dough or pizza.  Sure, they all have their learning curves.  Once you learn the ability to control the Final dough temperature in the Spiral mixer, it's a set it and forget it.  I've had my Sunmix for maybe 2 weeks now and have made dough every day.  It's awesome!!!  I have sold all the other mixers over time and only kept the Ankarsrum because my daughter likes to bake other things that a spiral is not made for.  The dough just comes out more complete.  It's difficult to describe until you use one.  In my experiment I did a few days ago I purposely tried to over mix and over heat the dough by mixing a small batch for like 25 minutes and it still turned out pretty good.  I now know that I can have an exact recipe and mix time for the type of pizza I want to make and not have to worry about how it's going to come out.  Yes there will always be some small adjustments but the Spiral made my life a lot easier and my dough has never looked or felt better.  I really love it!!!!!
« Last Edit: July 31, 2021, 10:27:38 PM by billg »

Offline bifi85

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Re: First impressions and review of the Famag IM-5S Spiral mixer
« Reply #121 on: August 01, 2021, 06:44:42 AM »
Would be interesting to know until which point a spiral mixer has no significant impact on the pizza dough.

For example a 48 h room fermentation.

I would guess, especially when it comes to room fermentation. There is a point where it doesn't matter which machine you use (if you don't overmix).

Just combining the ingredients roughly to a homogeneous mass (by hand or any machine) and let the dough develop the gluten network by itself.

Offline amolapizza

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Re: First impressions and review of the Famag IM-5S Spiral mixer
« Reply #122 on: August 01, 2021, 06:45:59 AM »
I might be completely mistaken but I have the distinct impression that increasing the mixing time thus the gluten development results in a chewier pizza!  I really should make some test doughs to verify this, but I've settled down into my comfort zone, and am quite happy with my results..  I've also given up on making lots of pizza that I'll throw away just to test theories..  It's just that everytime I try longer mixing times it seems like the result is chewier and not really what I'm searching for..

I seem to return to about 5 minutes mixing time for the softest result, I add everything (except for oil) to the bowl and let my Sunmix run at it's lowest speed for 5 minutes (68 rpm).  If I add oil I'll add it at the 3 minutes mark.

The result is a dough that isn't very well developed with "short" gluten chains.  That is to say it won't pass any kind of window pane test and tears quite easily if you try to make one.  Still after an hours rest it allows making very smooth balls and has a much more developed gluten web.

Once finished proofing and getting opened into skins it's a pleasure to work with.

Your mileage can and will probably wary a lot! :D

Edit: Note that this is for normal pizza dough at around 60% hydration.  For higher hydration (read 75-80%) I do use the higher speeds and let it go for a longer time.  For this kind of dough I'll normally start with around 65% hydration at middle speed (110 rpm) once the pumpkin has taken shape and I see that the gluten is beginning to get well developed I'll up the speed to max (208 rpm) and drizzle in the remaining water, the whole process takes about 10 minutes.
« Last Edit: August 01, 2021, 06:51:08 AM by amolapizza »
Jack

Effeuno P134H (500C), Biscotto Fornace Saputo, Sunmix Sun6, Caputo Pizzeria, Caputo Saccorosso, Mutti Pelati.

Offline Elchimi

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Re: First impressions and review of the Famag IM-5S Spiral mixer
« Reply #123 on: August 01, 2021, 07:51:32 AM »
I’m also very happy with my spiral mixer and for me it has been a game changer at least for making pizza dough.
I’ve seen lots of folks pushing the mixing to the limit with their spiral mixers, going for more or less fully developed gluten after mixing for pizza dough.
That works a great for some of the flours I’ve been using, such as Contadino 00, All trunks, Caputo cuoco.
I’m pretty sure you can’t do that with every single flour, for example I just started to incorporate some t65/tipo1 and I was told by Tom Lehman a few years ago that you can easily overmix this flour (due to the bran that’s in there, which can break/cut the gluten), probably moreso with a spiral mixer.
Also with lower protein flour probably can over mix easily (but I don’t know that for sure)
The first batch I’ve made today with the t65 (for baguette and some other for bagels) actually looked great after just about 5min on low speed with my sunmix. I went up with the speed for a minute to see what happens and the dough felt very stable. Could be the flour too that may tolerate the mixing quite well.
The problem that I had in the past with the KA professional 7qt that the dough was underdeveloped on many occasions, I don’t have that anymore with my spiral mixer. The danger now is overmixing I guess…

Offline Jackie Tran

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Re: First impressions and review of the Famag IM-5S Spiral mixer
« Reply #124 on: August 01, 2021, 07:55:42 AM »
Would be interesting to know until which point a spiral mixer has no significant impact on the pizza dough.

For example a 48 h room fermentation.

I would guess, especially when it comes to room fermentation. There is a point where it doesn't matter which machine you use (if you don't overmix).

Just combining the ingredients roughly to a homogeneous mass (by hand or any machine) and let the dough develop the gluten network by itself.

Even then and within that time frame is the magic of the spiral mixer.   It seems to produce a stronger more aerated dough with a softer finishing crumb compared to using a planetary mixer or mixing by hand.  If the effect is reproducible by hand, it would be much more time consuming in that it would require multiple periods of rest and dough manipulation. 

One test I am looking forward to doing is that after I get more time in with the new mixer and consistent with my NP dough and mixing method and a more consistent NP result, I want to try and achieve the same result but in my KA or hand mixing.   That will really give a good idea as to the differences in the capabilites of each machine.  Have any of you guys done that test?
« Last Edit: August 01, 2021, 07:57:29 AM by Jackie Tran »

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Offline billg

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Re: First impressions and review of the Famag IM-5S Spiral mixer
« Reply #125 on: August 01, 2021, 09:01:21 PM »
Even then and within that time frame is the magic of the spiral mixer.   It seems to produce a stronger more aerated dough with a softer finishing crumb compared to using a planetary mixer or mixing by hand.  If the effect is reproducible by hand, it would be much more time consuming in that it would require multiple periods of rest and dough manipulation. 

One test I am looking forward to doing is that after I get more time in with the new mixer and consistent with my NP dough and mixing method and a more consistent NP result, I want to try and achieve the same result but in my KA or hand mixing.   That will really give a good idea as to the differences in the capabilites of each machine.  Have any of you guys done that test?

I totally agree.  When I went to ball the dough the other day I usually cut the same amount and adjust accordingly to get to 260-265 grams. I am usually close within 10 grams or so judging by the mass.   As I was dividing the dough at what I thought was going to be  close to my desired amount, I was short by 40 grams.  I was having a hard time judging the weight.  I seem to have to cut or divide a larger mass because it's so light and airy. 

Offline Arne_Jervell

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Re: First impressions and review of the Famag IM-5S Spiral mixer
« Reply #126 on: August 02, 2021, 10:37:36 AM »
I'm probably preaching to the choir by now, but I am in full agreement: Dough from a spiral mixer has some really nice properties. I've too have made dough by hand, and I've used a couple of other mixers (Kenwood with J-hook, Kenwood with spiral-hook, Santos fork mixer). I've always been happy with these tools, no complaints really. But the spiral mixer is really something else. It amazes me how homogenous, tight, soft, airy and ... lovely and enjoyable! ... the dough comes out and ends up.

I seem to return to about 5 minutes mixing time for the softest result, I add everything (except for oil) to the bowl and let my Sunmix run at it's lowest speed for 5 minutes (68 rpm).  If I add oil I'll add it at the 3 minutes mark.

The result is a dough that isn't very well developed with "short" gluten chains.  That is to say it won't pass any kind of window pane test and tears quite easily if you try to make one.  Still after an hours rest it allows making very smooth balls and has a much more developed gluten web.

Once finished proofing and getting opened into skins it's a pleasure to work with.

Your mileage can and will probably wary a lot! :D

Edit: Note that this is for normal pizza dough at around 60% hydration.  For higher hydration (read 75-80%) I do use the higher speeds and let it go for a longer time.  For this kind of dough I'll normally start with around 65% hydration at middle speed (110 rpm) once the pumpkin has taken shape and I see that the gluten is beginning to get well developed I'll up the speed to max (208 rpm) and drizzle in the remaining water, the whole process takes about 10 minutes.

Jack, I have the same mixer (Sunmix6) and have seen you mention "five minutes on slowest speed" a number of times before. I've been wanting to ask you about some details, but your post above answers all my questions.  :)

After purchasing the Sunmix last year, I went through a lot of testing with different speeds, durations and combinations. For what it's worth, I too have now gravitated toward a very simple procedure, which works really well for my usual doughs (~24 hours, ~65% HR, Caputo Pizzeria): Mixing for a total of 7-8 minutes on 125 RPM. At this point the dough is well developed, probably a bit more than yours. The friction factor in this case is close to 7 °C, a fact I use to control the water temperature so I end up with my target FDT.

So predictable!

My only "problem" is that the machine is heavy (I have to carry it up and down a flight of stairs each time I'm using it because of my tiny kitchen size  :-D).

Offline amolapizza

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Re: First impressions and review of the Famag IM-5S Spiral mixer
« Reply #127 on: August 03, 2021, 04:40:47 AM »
Arne, that seems like not a huge difference in mixing time, and maybe accounted for by the difference in hydration (65 vs 58%).  I think it's been mostly when I tried much longer times and higher speeds that I've noticed the chewiness.  Like 15 minutes mixing time, or using high speed on the spiral.

For the moment I'm happy with the 5 minutes, though you probably mix in more air than what I do.  I notice more air bubbles in the dough after mixing when I'm doing higher hydration dough, normally employing middle and high speed and letting it go for 10-15 minutes.

Something else I've noticed is that looking at how the dough wraps and breaks around the dough breaker bar is a pretty good way of visually judging the gluten development.
Jack

Effeuno P134H (500C), Biscotto Fornace Saputo, Sunmix Sun6, Caputo Pizzeria, Caputo Saccorosso, Mutti Pelati.

Offline billg

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Re: First impressions and review of the Famag IM-5S Spiral mixer
« Reply #128 on: August 03, 2021, 09:43:56 AM »
Arne, that seems like not a huge difference in mixing time, and maybe accounted for by the difference in hydration (65 vs 58%).  I think it's been mostly when I tried much longer times and higher speeds that I've noticed the chewiness.  Like 15 minutes mixing time, or using high speed on the spiral.

For the moment I'm happy with the 5 minutes, though you probably mix in more air than what I do.  I notice more air bubbles in the dough after mixing when I'm doing higher hydration dough, normally employing middle and high speed and letting it go for 10-15 minutes.

Something else I've noticed is that looking at how the dough wraps and breaks around the dough breaker bar is a pretty good way of visually judging the gluten development.

Do you normally make your Neapolitan pies at 58% hydration?  If so, your mix times are in line for what I would do for Ny pies.  Try 62% hydration and mix a little longer (10-12) and see how you like it.  I'd love to know your thoughts.

regards,
Bill

Offline amolapizza

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Re: First impressions and review of the Famag IM-5S Spiral mixer
« Reply #129 on: August 03, 2021, 01:00:13 PM »
I used to be at 60%, but think I could note just a hint of unbaked dough in the pizza.  This seemed to go away when I lowered to 58%.  I can certainly try a bit more someday (if I remember).. :D
Jack

Effeuno P134H (500C), Biscotto Fornace Saputo, Sunmix Sun6, Caputo Pizzeria, Caputo Saccorosso, Mutti Pelati.

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Offline bifi85

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Re: First impressions and review of the Famag IM-5S Spiral mixer
« Reply #130 on: August 03, 2021, 02:18:53 PM »
The motor in the Famag IM-5S is not the strongest.
The operating instructions state that the machine can process a maximum of 5 kg dough (3 kg of flour and 2 kg of water).
In reality it is more a maximum of 3.5 kg dough.
If you make a pizza dough with 100 % biga you have to be even more careful.
« Last Edit: August 03, 2021, 02:20:49 PM by bifi85 »

Offline Elchimi

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Re: First impressions and review of the Famag IM-5S Spiral mixer
« Reply #131 on: August 04, 2021, 08:39:28 AM »
T65 68% hydration after 4min, 23c

Offline Jackie Tran

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Re: First impressions and review of the Famag IM-5S Spiral mixer
« Reply #132 on: August 27, 2021, 07:47:45 PM »
Extremely Interesting thread!

Possibly dumb question.  I have a WFO and I have quickly determined that I am less a fan of softy silky NP and more of a classic fan. That is I like bit of chew with the crisp and also a huge NY Style fan and desire to perfect both styles in my WFO.

Apart from the benefits for breads, pastas, etc.  Does the spiral mixer translate well to the classical and NY style doughs?  I have wanted to pull the trigger on a sunmix for a while but am not sure if it will offer benefit for those styles.

Not a dumb question at all but a very intuitive one.   In making batch after batch of NP dough, I have notice and reported softer crumbs compared to my previous KItchen Aide doughs.    It stands to reason this would translate over into NY doughs.   I've since made 3-4 batches of dough to confirm this.   That you will lose a bit of crisp, crunch, and chewiness.  Not necessarily a bad thing, as everyone seeks a different finishing texture.   You can however adjust your formula to make adjust for the mixer.   You'll have to lower your hydration and/or fat or oil in the dough by a percentage or so.   Some experimentation is necessary here.   It took me 10 yrs of experimenting to come up with my NY recipe for my KA mixer, it makes sense it will take some tries to get it dialed in with the new mixer.  I have full confidence that it is possible. 

Offline ARenko

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Re: First impressions and review of the Famag IM-5S Spiral mixer
« Reply #133 on: September 18, 2021, 01:32:52 PM »
Been eyeing the IM-5S for a while - looks like it just had a big price increase.

Offline Elchimi

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Re: First impressions and review of the Famag IM-5S Spiral mixer
« Reply #134 on: September 18, 2021, 01:40:21 PM »
Could consider the sunmix 6 instead

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Offline ARenko

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Re: First impressions and review of the Famag IM-5S Spiral mixer
« Reply #135 on: September 18, 2021, 02:49:19 PM »
Could consider the sunmix 6 instead
Famag is now the price of what the Sunmix was (it looks to have gone up as well by a similar amount IIRC).

Offline Elchimi

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First impressions and review of the Famag IM-5S Spiral mixer
« Reply #136 on: September 18, 2021, 02:57:45 PM »
Famag is now the price of what the Sunmix was (it looks to have gone up as well by a similar amount IIRC).
You’re right, prices went up. usually you’d get 10% off on the sunmix, will be around $1700 then. At least for mine I didn’t get charged for shipping though.

Offline scott r

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Re: First impressions and review of the Famag IM-5S Spiral mixer
« Reply #137 on: September 18, 2021, 03:49:57 PM »
I am talking to importers telling me that their Italian tomatoes now cost 10 times more to ship from Italy.  If this is true be ready for even more increases soon, and many products not available any more.   Sad times!

Online Pete-zza

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Re: First impressions and review of the Famag IM-5S Spiral mixer
« Reply #138 on: September 18, 2021, 05:11:00 PM »
I am talking to importers telling me that their Italian tomatoes now cost 10 times more to ship from Italy.  If this is true be ready for even more increases soon, and many products not available any more.   Sad times!
Scott,

Anything that is shipping related, whether it is ship, trucking or railroad related, and whether it is domestic or foreign, is a big problem at this time. There is even a shortage of shipping boxes and other containers. As an example, I read the following this morning in a finance related article as follows:

For instance, the Financial Times reports shippers can’t find enough metal shipping containers to transport all the stuff we want to buy.

Chinese manufacturers are pumping out record volumes of freight containers after shippers ordered vast stacks of the steel boxes in an attempt to smooth out disruptions in the global supply chain…

The world’s biggest box manufacturers, China International Marine Containers (CIMC), Dongfang International Container and CXIC Group, are struggling to meet demand, even though production has been increased with workers’ hours extended.

“The factories are running pretty hard out,” said Brian Sondey, chief executive of Triton International, the world’s largest container leasing company, which rents boxes to shipping groups.

Even if the boxes can be found, they often arrive at US ports only to spend a week or more waiting for dock space to unload. Here’s a look at the Long Beach port last week. The green dots offshore are anchored container ships, each holding thousands of containers packed with stuff we need.


The photo as referenced in the above and that shows the logjam of ships in parts of California is shown below. In the photo, the green dots offshore are anchored container ships, each holding thousands of containers packed with stuff we need.

For those who wish to do a deeper dive on the shipping side of this matter, the following article may be instructive:

https://blog.evergreengavekal.com/they-paved-the-port-and-put-up-a-parking-lot/?pdf=11856

Peter


Offline ARenko

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Re: First impressions and review of the Famag IM-5S Spiral mixer
« Reply #139 on: September 18, 2021, 06:51:07 PM »
You’re right, prices went up. usually you’d get 10% off on the sunmix, will be around $1700 then. At least for mine I didn’t get charged for shipping though.
Not sure how you get the 10%, but it's $1890 now. Was around $1600.

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