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Author Topic: Too much of fermentation  (Read 885 times)

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Offline Vojta

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Too much of fermentation
« on: September 07, 2023, 08:16:08 AM »
Hello,

it's Vojta here.

For the last 2 months I am trying my best to make a good pizza dough.

Looking at others, my recipe is the same but the fermentation is too much. Maybe it's because of the temperature inside my flat (around 21-25 celsius).
After I make the dough, I wait 2 hours (room temp) - it does not change much.
After 2 hours, I make dough balls and let it rest overnight (at least 8 hours). By this time, it's so fermented I have have to reball it again.

What do you think the problem might be?

recipe:
70% hydratation
Flour 290g
water 202 g
salt 8,7g
fresh yeast - 0,6g

Thank you!

Offline Pizzailolz

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Re: Too much of fermentation
« Reply #1 on: September 07, 2023, 12:19:04 PM »
From the way you explained it, it sounds like you are over proofing, not over fermenting.

I'll just toss you a suggestion and maybe give it a try. First off, your dough recipe looks fine, except I'd go with 0.2gr ADY for a longer ferment.

1. Make your dough.
2. Ball your dough.
3. Let it sit on the counter for an hour to let the yeast get happy.
4. Put the dough balls in the back of the refrigerator to let the yeast take a nap.
5. Let the balls cold ferment for a minimum of 24 hours. Peak seems to be 72 hours according to many including myself. I freeze what I don't use after 72 hours.
6. When you are ready to use a dough ball, take it out and proof on the counter for 1 to 2 hours (depending on time of the year and room temp)
7. Stretch.
8. Build and bake.
9. ???
10. Enjoy.
« Last Edit: September 07, 2023, 12:26:21 PM by Pizzailolz »
If all I had was pizza, wings and beer the rest of my life, I'd die a fat happy man. ~Chris :)

Offline Yuvalvv

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Re: Too much of fermentation
« Reply #2 on: September 07, 2023, 05:22:46 PM »
Craig's chart is your best friend: https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=26831.msg393271#msg393271

Edit:
If you use Craig's chart for CF, immediately ball and put inside the fridge after mixing, DO NOT let the dough time to ferment outside of the fridge, as it will speed up fermentation considerably and basically #$&# up fermentation time (unless you've found the precise amount of yeast for you specific conditions and fermentation process, which is close to impossible to calculate for a hybrid RT+CT fermentation as there are far too many variables to take into account, so only trial & error).
« Last Edit: September 07, 2023, 06:43:31 PM by Yuvalvv »

Offline Plap

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Re: Too much of fermentation
« Reply #3 on: September 07, 2023, 06:12:28 PM »
From the way you explained it, it sounds like you are over proofing, not over fermenting.
I'm sorry, newbie question here, but what's the difference between proofing and fermenting?

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Too much of fermentation
« Reply #4 on: September 07, 2023, 07:42:43 PM »
I'm sorry, newbie question here, but what's the difference between proofing and fermenting?
Plap,

You might want to check out the terms PROOF/PROOFING and FERMENTATION in the forum's Pizza Glossary at:

https://www.pizzamaking.com/glossary.html#index_pLsfs

Peter

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Online Timpanogos Slim

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Re: Too much of fermentation
« Reply #5 on: September 07, 2023, 09:36:45 PM »
0.2% fresh yeast isn't near enough for a 2-hour ferment.

For a 2-hour 'emergency' dough at that temperature, you need closer to 1.4%, or about 4g.


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Offline Pizzailolz

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Re: Too much of fermentation
« Reply #6 on: September 08, 2023, 12:19:52 AM »
0.2% fresh yeast isn't near enough for a 2-hour ferment.

For a 2-hour 'emergency' dough at that temperature, you need closer to 1.4%, or about 4g.
Oh crap. I didn't see that he said fresh yeast. Good catch, thanks.
If all I had was pizza, wings and beer the rest of my life, I'd die a fat happy man. ~Chris :)

Offline Pizzailolz

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Re: Too much of fermentation
« Reply #7 on: September 08, 2023, 12:53:02 AM »
Craig's chart is your best friend: https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=26831.msg393271#msg393271

Edit:
If you use Craig's chart for CF, immediately ball and put inside the fridge after mixing, DO NOT let the dough time to ferment outside of the fridge, as it will speed up fermentation considerably and basically #$&# up fermentation time (unless you've found the precise amount of yeast for you specific conditions and fermentation process, which is close to impossible to calculate for a hybrid RT+CT fermentation as there are far too many variables to take into account, so only trial & error).
I kind of agree with this. But it depends on how I mix the dough and temp. If I'm doing a hand knead with 30 minute stretch and folds, I ball it and into the fridge after the third stretch and fold. That equates to the dough being at room temp for an hour and a half. The dough is happy, I'm happy and I don't have room in my fridge and have to decide what goes and what stays.
Craig seems to really know his sh!t, and seems to be a heck of a cool guy, so I'm sure he nailed it. I'll take a look at his chart after this.

Eat pizza, **** as often as you can, and be happy.  ;D
If all I had was pizza, wings and beer the rest of my life, I'd die a fat happy man. ~Chris :)

Offline Yuvalvv

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Re: Too much of fermentation
« Reply #8 on: September 08, 2023, 08:29:10 AM »
I kind of agree with this. But it depends on how I mix the dough and temp. If I'm doing a hand knead with 30 minute stretch and folds, I ball it and into the fridge after the third stretch and fold. That equates to the dough being at room temp for an hour and a half. The dough is happy, I'm happy and I don't have room in my fridge and have to decide what goes and what stays.
Craig seems to really know his sh!t, and seems to be a heck of a cool guy, so I'm sure he nailed it. I'll take a look at his chart after this.

Eat pizza, **** as often as you can, and be happy.  ;D

Oh don't get me wrong, hybrid fermentation can work fantastic just as any other dough management process, it's just harder to pull off due to the so many variables that affect fermentation rate, including counter time, ambient temperature, finished dough temperature, dough weight etc. There are too many variables to take into account which make it nearly impossible to have a yeast amount that will work the same every time. Balling and immediately putting the balls in the fridge, "eliminates" most of these variables and help make for a consistent dough. Also bear in mind Craig's chart assumes a steady, constant temperature, so when using it, it is best to chill the dough as fast as possible to the actual fridge temperature (hybrid fermentation will make the dough ferment at a much higher, mostly unknown temperature, during most of the fermentation time in the fridge, which makes it less predictable). That is why his chart gives a much higher yeast % for CF than most people using hybrid fermentation are used to. I hope that makes sense :)

Offline Pizzailolz

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Re: Too much of fermentation
« Reply #9 on: September 08, 2023, 03:32:05 PM »
That makes sense, thanks, Yuv.
If all I had was pizza, wings and beer the rest of my life, I'd die a fat happy man. ~Chris :)

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Offline junep

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Re: Too much of fermentation
« Reply #10 on: September 10, 2023, 10:44:27 AM »
Hello,

it's Vojta here.

For the last 2 months I am trying my best to make a good pizza dough.

Looking at others, my recipe is the same but the fermentation is too much. Maybe it's because of the temperature inside my flat (around 21-25 celsius).
After I make the dough, I wait 2 hours (room temp) - it does not change much.
After 2 hours, I make dough balls and let it rest overnight (at least 8 hours). By this time, it's so fermented I have have to reball it again.

What do you think the problem might be?

recipe:
70% hydratation
Flour 290g
water 202 g
salt 8,7g
fresh yeast - 0,6g

Thank you!
That's 2%fresh yeast and 8hrs should be ok but according to your post your dough is balled for 8 hrs but was sitting out 2 hrs before that. Either shorten the balled time to 6 hrs, or use less yeast, or you can refrigerate it right after balling for a short time and then bring it to rm temp till it is ready. Good luck.
Conformity is the last refuge of the unimaginative.

Offline Globalksp

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Re: Too much of fermentation
« Reply #11 on: September 11, 2023, 02:20:31 AM »
Craig's chart is your best friend: https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=26831.msg393271#msg393271

Edit:
If you use Craig's chart for CF, immediately ball and put inside the fridge after mixing, DO NOT let the dough time to ferment outside of the fridge, as it will speed up fermentation considerably and basically #$&# up fermentation time (unless you've found the precise amount of yeast for you specific conditions and fermentation process, which is close to impossible to calculate for a hybrid RT+CT fermentation as there are far too many variables to take into account, so only trial & error).

Agree with the use of Craig's chart (it was/is a massive help for me) and wanted to re-link/share this staged fermentation calc that is based off of his chart: http://shadergraphics.com/

That said, as Yuvalvv pointed out, there are a lot of variables that must be kept in check for repeatable success.

Good luck!

Offline Jersey Pie Boy

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Re: Too much of fermentation
« Reply #12 on: September 13, 2023, 07:21:37 PM »
I'm working some details of this myself..with poolish in the mix so degree of difficulty is fairly high.

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