Pizza Making Forum

Pizza Making => American Style => Topic started by: wayno on March 01, 2005, 01:30:50 PM

Title: Papa John's Pizza Sauce
Post by: wayno on March 01, 2005, 01:30:50 PM
I picked this up from a google search of Papa John's (sm) Pizza recipes.

FROM BOOK TITLED: Top Secret Recipes (by Todd Wilbur)

Papa John's Pizza Sauce
1 10 3/4-ounce can of tomato puree
1/4 cup water
1 tablespoon sugar
1 teaspoon olive oil
1/4 teaspoon lemon juice
1/4 teaspoon salt
1/4 teaspoon oregano
1/8 teaspoon basil
1/8 teaspoon thyme
1/8 teaspoon garlic powder

1. Combine ingredients in a small saucepan over medium heat. Bring to a boil.
2. Reduce heat and simmer for 15 to 20 minutes.
Makes 1 cup.

Special Garlic Sauce
1/2 cup margarine spread
1/4 teaspoon garlic powder

1. Combine ingredients in a small bowl.
2. Microwave on 1/2 power for 20 seconds. Stir.
Makes 1/2 cup. :o


Title: Re: Papa John's Pizza Sauce
Post by: bortz on March 01, 2005, 06:51:42 PM
I've investigated those copycat recipes myself Wayne.  Yours looks like a good find.  The one I saw for pizza hut clone sauce advocated the use of tomato soup of all things. ::)

Is the garlic sauce like a dipping sauce or something?
Title: Re: Papa John's Pizza Sauce
Post by: wayno on March 01, 2005, 10:26:35 PM

Is the garlic sauce like a dipping sauce or something?

The garlic sauce comes in little plastic cups that have foil seals (like creamers for coffee).  Papa John's Includes the garlic sauce and peppers inside each box of delivered pizza. My co-workers oder PJ's delivery once a week and I usually like to look it over.

Title: Re: Papa John's Pizza Sauce
Post by: Madmax on May 23, 2005, 09:58:45 AM
Hey, I tried the PJ pizza sauce.  It was excellent.  I've been looking for a good one, and this recipe gave my pies a wonderful flavor.  It was sweeter than I normally make it, but my wife and 5 year olds twins enjoyed it!  We finished 2, 12" pizzas.  I also tried a new/variation of the dough I've been making.  I don't know baker's %, but this was by far the highest hydration % I've used.  Recipe follows:

3 C        KA bread flour
1 1/3 C  water
1/2 t      ADY
1/2 t      salt
1/2 t      sugar

Proofed, for 15 minutes, the ADY in 1/3 C of water and all the sugar.  Then added the yeast mixture to 1 Cup flour and mixed for 3-4 minutes.  Rest for 20 minutes.  Added salt, and remainder of flour.  Mixed for 13-15 minutes.  Rest for 20 minutes.  Placed into tupperware with a few drops of oil.  Then into the refridgerator for 2 days...bench rise for 3-4 hours.  Made 2 12" skins, topped, then into preheated stone at 500.  Cooked in 7-8 minutes.  Light and airy, and yet crisp. 
Title: Re: Papa John's Pizza Sauce
Post by: Madmax on May 23, 2005, 10:00:22 AM
Oops, I forgot to mention that I added the remainder of the water during the first mixing.
Title: Re: Papa John's Pizza Sauce
Post by: Randy on May 23, 2005, 11:45:27 AM
Madmax, you want believe how much difference high gluten flour makes over bread flour.

Title: Re: Papa John's Pizza Sauce
Post by: Pete-zza on May 23, 2005, 12:08:23 PM

I don't know how you measure your flour, but if you just scoop it out of the bag with a one-cup measuring cup without leveling it off, I would estimate that your hydration percent was around 63%. It would be higher if you level off your measuring cup.

Whether you intended it or not, your kneading technique used a variation of the classic Prof. Calvel autolyse. Sometime you might want to wait until the last minute to add the salt, which would also be more consistent with the classic autolyse method.

I am curious to know what mixer speed you are using.

Title: Re: Papa John's Pizza Sauce
Post by: Madmax on May 23, 2005, 12:14:57 PM
High Gluten flour is difficult to find here in the rural south.  I have been searching the"mega" stores, but have only come up empty handed.  I may have to order over the 'net and have it shipped.  The highest protein % flour I can find is bread flour.  I have been applying some of the techniques that I've learned from this website and have had great results (comparativley speaking!).  Keep in mind, my point of reference are the numerous franchise pizza joints...the Pizza Huts, Pizza Inns, Domino's of the world.  An artisan pie does not exist where I live.  At best, I must travel up to Charlotte or to Atlanta to get a decent pie.

I have been using Varasano's advise, and working on kneading and dough management to get better results.  If I remember correctly, his three keys to a great pie did not include a High Gluten pie per se.  Others reccomentd only a HG flour.  However, without ever trying a HG flour I cannot make a judgement. 
Title: Re: Papa John's Pizza Sauce
Post by: Madmax on May 23, 2005, 12:30:02 PM
Hey Pete-zza,

I'm glad you responded.  I do not have a scale, so I can only tell you how I measured my flour.  I use a 1C scoop, and gently shake it back and forth to level it down. As for the mixing, I have a Kitchen-Aid (dough hook attachment), and only mixe using the 1st setting.

I knew I was using at least some elementary form of autolyse!  I have read through alot of your posts, Pete, and I appreciate your contributions and expertise.  I have made giant leaps in progress thanks to your knowledge and generousity.

As for adding the salt at the last minute...would I add it during the last few minutes of the final mixing?

Another thing I have been experimenting with, is to really concentrate on feeling the dough.  I cook alot of different types of foods and usually I do not measure anything.  I will observe, smell, and finally taste the dish as I prepare it to understand what adjustments need to be made.  Maybe its the Rebel in me, but I generally don't get caught up in the exact measurements of any recipe.  I'm sure its held me back as far as making improvements, but hey, cooking for me is a relaxing hobby.
Title: Re: Papa John's Pizza Sauce
Post by: Pete-zza on May 23, 2005, 02:07:28 PM

I have some KA bread flour, so I went back into my kitchen and weighed some of it on my digital scale after scooping it out of the bag the way you do. Shaking the measuring cup as you do, or tamping it to get the flour to settle in the measuring cup, increases the weight of your "one cup" of flour. Using your technique, I got a hydration percent of a bit over 62% (9.8 oz. of water divided by 15.75 oz. of KA bread flour). That's a good number.

You had me worried for a while on the mixer speed, since a total of 15-20 minutes of mixing on anything other than the stir/1 speed would be too much in my opinion. This is another one of those examples where time measurements can be deceptive and misleading. If, for example, you mixed your dough for 15-20 minutes on speed 3, it would almost destroy the dough through overkneading and overdevelopment of the gluten. But 15-20 minutes at stir/1 speed should be fine. Also, the dough will not become overheated even with the longer knead time.

As for the use of salt in relation to autolyse, when I use the autolyse method I add the salt in the last minute or two of kneading. If you'd like, you can dissolve the salt in a small amount of water to allow it to more fully incorporate into the dough. BTW, I am not opposed to putting the salt in at the very beginning of making the dough (where no autolyse is to be used). Salt is hygroscopic (it absorbs water), so dissolving it in the water ensures that it is fully hydrated and won't try to draw water out of the yeast (through cell wall osmosis) and degrade the yeast's performance (even though modern yeasts behave much better in this regard than they used to). Adding the salt in at the beginning also serves to reduce oxidation of the dough and preserve components of the flour, such as carotenoids, that contribute to flavor and color in the finished crust. If you use salt in the context of an autolyse as discussed above, the kneading time should be reduced, resulting in reduced oxidation also. So, either way, you should be OK.

I think you are doing the right thing learning how to tell when something is just right by feel, whether it is Papa John's pizza sauce, dough or anything else. While I try to do the same thing, I tend to take a more precise approach to things because I think it helps me, and others, to get a more consistent, reproducible product. I find that it also helps me to diagnose problems that I or others are having when we have been following precise steps, ingredient quantities, etc. Otherwise, I would be trying to guess where and why something went wrong. That is one of the reasons I prepare such detailed and meticulous instructions for all my recipes. I want people using the recipes to succeed right out of the block and not to have to guess at anything because I didn't fill in all of the blanks. If they deviate, but can tell me how they deviated, we have a better chance of finding out what went wrong and how to fix it.

I hope you keep on working to perfect the PJ pizza sauce. It should complement your pizza dough very well.


Title: Re: Papa John's Pizza Sauce
Post by: Madmax on May 23, 2005, 02:24:36 PM

Point well made on taking a more precise approach to measurements in order to achieve consistancy, as well as diagnose problems etc.  3 out of the last 5 times I've made pizza, I have hit homeruns...the other 2 were marginal at best.  What was the difference?  Probably hydration and mixing technique, however I don't know exactly because I haven't taken the scientific approach as you suggested.  I guess more testing is required!

Thanks again for your insight,

Title: Re: Papa John's Pizza Sauce
Post by: Randy on May 23, 2005, 04:00:36 PM
Madmax I live in a two stop light town myself in Georgia.  Most everyone on this site has to mail order high gluten flour, but it is worth it.

Title: Re: Papa John's Pizza Sauce
Post by: Nathan on May 25, 2005, 11:31:00 AM
Title: Re: Papa John's Pizza Sauce
Post by: ihavezippers on May 28, 2006, 10:23:05 PM
the first time I tried this sauce recipe, I almost barfed...but thats because I was using Hunts tomato sauce, go figure.  I recently tried something very close to this w/ Stanislaus Tomato Magic, the reason I say it is close is due to the use of lemon juice.  It really was excellent and the best sauce I have yet made.  So thanks; this recipe is some of the better advice I've gotten on this board.
Title: Re: Papa John's Pizza Sauce
Post by: dapizza on January 22, 2007, 09:37:08 PM
I was watching some tv show and they had Papa John's owner.  He said they used 5 oz. of pizza sauce.  Just a fun little fact since this is the Papa John's Pizza Sauce thread.  Also, it said Papa John's uses 2 cups of cheese.  I am not for sure, but I think he said it was a mixture of mostly Mozzerella with a little Provolone, and something else.  Also, the founder said they cook it for five minutes.  Later in the program he also said they cook it for under six minutes.  I am not sure why he gave two different times, but I thought all of this was interesting.
Title: Re: Papa John's Pizza Sauce
Post by: Green Hornet on February 06, 2007, 04:06:53 PM
I made this sauce yesterday for 2 differant pies. One was a New york style and the other was a Pizza Hut style. Both turned out tasy. I have saved this recipie and will make it again. Everyone in the house liked it so far. That is hard to say about anyone at least around here.