Pizza Making Forum

General Topics => Pizza Ovens => Pizza Making Equipment => Hearth Ovens => Topic started by: Reep on September 30, 2012, 11:43:18 PM

Title: Pizza Oven in Outdoor Kitchen Project
Post by: Reep on September 30, 2012, 11:43:18 PM
Here is the start of the new project.  You can probably guess what goes on top of the big pit on the back right side.

The forms outline the bars that go around both sides.  The camera is at the top of some steps that step down into the kitchen, and then more steps by the pizza oven going down to a patio.
Title: Re: Pizza Oven in Outdoor Kitchen Project
Post by: Reep on October 03, 2012, 02:49:03 PM
Questions: I hope to post questions here to get the best ideas about how to design the external features of the pizza oven.

1) Patio: Is it beneficial to have a platform in front of the oven (and to the sides) to place pizza or other things on?  I was considering having a 12" platform in front of the the oven opening and going at least 15" out either side of the oven opening for placing pizza in progress and other items I might need.  Any suggestions to make it bigger, not have it at all (just gets in the way?), smaller, etc.?

2) Cover over door: the chimney vent will be inside the face of the oven structure.  Is there any other reason to have an outcropping above the oven door, other than to make sure a bird doesn't poop on the pizza as it is being removed?

3) other features for the exterior?  I was planning on mounting a peel holder on the side of the oven, but that was about all.
Title: Re: Pizza Oven in Outdoor Kitchen Project
Post by: Tscarborough on October 03, 2012, 03:33:18 PM
In front of, a little but not much, it gets in the way of working the oven.  On the sides at least a place to put your beverage and a dishrag.

I extended the roof over the front of my oven to keep the entry and wood storage drier, but it actually keeps it very dry except for horizontal blowing rain.

I store my peels and handled tools (all metal) on the roof of the oven, they are handy and out of the way.

Ideally, if your prep table was directly in front of the oven door the width of your peel length, you could rest the handle end in the entry and make the pizza on the peel end, then turn it around to put in the oven.
Title: Re: Pizza Oven in Outdoor Kitchen Project
Post by: Reep on October 03, 2012, 04:06:00 PM
In front of, a little but not much, it gets in the way of working the oven.  On the sides at least a place to put your beverage and a dishrag.

So would it be beneficial to maybe have an outcropping on each side of the oven entry, but nothing directly in front of and below the oven door?

The prep area will be on the right side of the pizza oven--on the far right in the top picture.
Title: Re: Pizza Oven in Outdoor Kitchen Project
Post by: Tscarborough on October 03, 2012, 04:49:23 PM
From the inner arch (the door) to the outer arch (the entry) is probably 10 or 12 inches already, that should be enough.
Title: Re: Pizza Oven in Outdoor Kitchen Project
Post by: pizzaneer on October 03, 2012, 09:19:44 PM
Not to disagree with Tom the oven guru, but counter space will come in handy wherever it is.  Sometimes you might need to pull one thing out of the oven in order to get to another thing right behind it, then put the first thing right back in.  So a landing in front of the oven, some area to both sides, are all very handy things to have.  Even if all you do is keep a stack of serving plates on them.
Title: Re: Pizza Oven in Outdoor Kitchen Project
Post by: Reep on October 03, 2012, 10:32:46 PM
Good input.  I'm going to see what I can draw up that leaves space around the door, but still gives me options for setting things down close to the door.
Title: Re: Pizza Oven in Outdoor Kitchen Project
Post by: Tscarborough on October 03, 2012, 10:37:56 PM
I didn't mean to imply that counter space is not good, the more the better. It is obvious he has plenty laid out.  I meant immediately adjacent to the oven.  The only things I place there in use (I have a small area to the left and an even smaller place to the right) is beverage, ashtray and dishtowel.
Title: Re: Pizza Oven in Outdoor Kitchen Project
Post by: Tscarborough on October 03, 2012, 10:42:45 PM
If you look at Craig's oven, it has two round spots, one on either side of the entry, to warm plates.  He pulls the pies from the oven and puts them on the plate and serves them, and that is very handy, esp. for Neapolitan pies.  I generally make Neo-politan/NY pies, so mine go on a cooling rack on the counter to the left before I cut and serve them.  Different workflows.
Title: Re: Pizza Oven in Outdoor Kitchen Project
Post by: Reep on October 04, 2012, 11:14:55 AM
If you look at Craig's oven, it has two round spots, one on either side of the entry, to warm plates.  He pulls the pies from the oven and puts them on the plate and serves them, and that is very handy, esp. for Neapolitan pies.  I generally make Neo-politan/NY pies, so mine go on a cooling rack on the counter to the left before I cut and serve them.  Different workflows.

I have seen those plating stands on his oven.  That is sort of what I am considering, but leaving the space in front of and under the entry open for better accessability and having some kind of shelf on the sides for plating, etc.  Probably not the best place to put my beer though.  Although I usually have red wine while cooking pizza . . .
Title: Re: Pizza Oven in Outdoor Kitchen Project
Post by: pizzaneer on October 04, 2012, 11:31:58 AM
Another thing you should put a lot of thought into is height of the hearth.  If it's too high, it makes it tough to load wood and tend the fire.  Too low, you will wind up with a permanent stoop from bending over to look inside.  Right about breastbone level is just right, IMO.
Title: Re: Pizza Oven in Outdoor Kitchen Project
Post by: Reep on October 04, 2012, 11:39:01 AM
Another thing you should put a lot of thought into is height of the hearth.  If it's too high, it makes it tough to load wood and tend the fire.  Too low, you will wind up with a permanent stoop from bending over to look inside.  Right about breastbone level is just right, IMO.

I was considering 50" for hearth height.  I'm think I'm the same height as John and he has a 48" height I believe, which appears to be somewhat on the tall side of standard.  I upped mine a couple inches to help my back, but didn't want to make it too high for someone else to use in the future.
Title: Re: Pizza Oven in Outdoor Kitchen Project
Post by: pizzaneer on October 04, 2012, 11:41:41 AM
Don't worry about those nonexistent future people!  Patio level can be easily added to- much harder to take it down.  Make it right for yourself first.

Looks like it will be beautiful!  What climate do you live in?  Do you have to consider leaves and debris, snow and ice?
Title: Re: Pizza Oven in Outdoor Kitchen Project
Post by: Reep on October 04, 2012, 12:12:10 PM
Don't worry about those nonexistent future people!  Patio level can be easily added to- much harder to take it down.  Make it right for yourself first.

Looks like it will be beautiful!  What climate do you live in?  Do you have to consider leaves and debris, snow and ice?

I have to consider sun, sun, sun and an occasional cloud (Coastal Southern California).  The location is away from trees other than a single palm tree.  Shade would be nice, but it brings in a whole bunch of building code issues that I don't want to deal with.  I'll just wear a hat or move an umbrella around if I need it.
Title: Re: Pizza Oven in Outdoor Kitchen Project
Post by: pizzaneer on October 04, 2012, 12:28:22 PM
Wish I had your issues!   8)

How about an awning?  One of these things?  If it's retractable, I don't think you need a permit for it.
Title: Re: Pizza Oven in Outdoor Kitchen Project
Post by: Reep on October 05, 2012, 12:27:01 PM
Concrete pouring today.  Here they are filling the pizza oven foundation.
Title: Re: Pizza Oven in Outdoor Kitchen Project
Post by: Reep on October 05, 2012, 12:31:01 PM
How about an awning?  One of these things?  If it's retractable, I don't think you need a permit for it.

I think I'm going to end up with a shade sail.  I have two posts high above the kitchen and only need one more tie off spot to make it work.
Title: Re: Pizza Oven in Outdoor Kitchen Project
Post by: weemis on October 05, 2012, 01:43:09 PM
Late to the game, but I had a 2ftx4ft stainless steel prep table added to my mobile WFO and it was a game changer. When cooking with my dutch oven, I can just take it right out of the oven and on to the prep table to check it. It's also awesome to have the space to prep things and keep my launching and retrieval peels handy. After adding the prep table, I wouldn't ever want to go back!
Title: Re: Pizza Oven in Outdoor Kitchen Project
Post by: Reep on October 05, 2012, 02:10:59 PM
Late to the game, but I had a 2ftx4ft stainless steel prep table added to my mobile WFO and it was a game changer. When cooking with my dutch oven, I can just take it right out of the oven and on to the prep table to check it. It's also awesome to have the space to prep things and keep my launching and retrieval peels handy. After adding the prep table, I wouldn't ever want to go back!

I will have a prep area built in about 45 degrees to the right side of the oven.  Also, I want to put two shelves coming out of the front of the oven at about the same elevation as the oven opening that will be about 12" deep and 14-18" wide.  I am picturing assembling on the right side next to the pizza oven and then plating on one of the shelves in front of the oven.  Also, the peels can lean on these shelves when in action.  If needed I have room right in front of the pizza oven for a moveable table that could use if I need extra space for any reason.
Title: Re: Pizza Oven in Outdoor Kitchen Project
Post by: Reep on October 08, 2012, 04:41:07 PM
Getting ready to build up the cinder block foundation for the oven. 
Title: Re: Pizza Oven in Outdoor Kitchen Project
Post by: TXCraig1 on October 08, 2012, 04:46:47 PM
Late to the game, but I had a 2ftx4ft stainless steel prep table added to my mobile WFO and it was a game changer. When cooking with my dutch oven, I can just take it right out of the oven and on to the prep table to check it. It's also awesome to have the space to prep things and keep my launching and retrieval peels handy. After adding the prep table, I wouldn't ever want to go back!

+1 on the prep table. Game changer. You could do something like mine out of stainless and marble. http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,18634.msg181562.html#msg181562

The cold tray is the greatest. Keeps everything cold and organized. Set-up and clean up is a breeze.
Title: Re: Pizza Oven in Outdoor Kitchen Project
Post by: TXCraig1 on October 08, 2012, 04:50:10 PM
Your oven foundation reminds me of the saying: "There is no overkill. There is only open fire and time to reload."
Title: Re: Pizza Oven in Outdoor Kitchen Project
Post by: Reep on October 08, 2012, 05:02:51 PM
+1 on the prep table. Game changer. You could do something like mine out of stainless and marble. http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,18634.msg181562.html#msg181562

The cold tray is the greatest. Keeps everything cold and organized. Set-up and clean up is a breeze.

Why do you need so many ingredient containers when all you need is sauce, fresh mozzarella and basil?   8)

I'm having a built in stainless pizza building counter (30") that will handle most of the load.  I may put a butcher block table behind the oven if I need more counter, or just want it behind me.  But, I'll have to build it like my work bench, which doesn't move much:
Title: Re: Pizza Oven in Outdoor Kitchen Project
Post by: Reep on October 30, 2012, 01:56:31 PM
Still waiting for the oven to arrive, but enjoying reading about others using it (or similar).  Here was a nice block on a FGM raised showing pizza and bread.

http://blog.bakerybits.co.uk/?p=723 (http://blog.bakerybits.co.uk/?p=723)
Title: Re: Pizza Oven in Outdoor Kitchen Project
Post by: Reep on November 04, 2012, 06:13:43 PM
Poured the counter tops now.  Next step is pizza oven arrival and tile for the counters.
Title: Re: Pizza Oven in Outdoor Kitchen Project
Post by: RobynB on November 04, 2012, 11:23:39 PM
Nice arena in background.  Yours? 
Title: Re: Pizza Oven in Outdoor Kitchen Project
Post by: Reep on November 05, 2012, 12:54:57 AM
Nice arena in background.  Yours? 

It could be if my girls were into horses as much as I would like to be.  The area you saw is actually an empty lot that some neighbors ride in.  Next to that is a lot with 2.5 horses (1 mini).  We are zoned for three horses, but so far I don't having any takers for stall mucking, so the back of our lot is just empty for now.
Title: Re: Pizza Oven in Outdoor Kitchen Project
Post by: Reep on December 05, 2012, 01:49:01 PM
Okay, oven is on the way from MD soon.  I need to reread Robyn's thread for construction tips.  I'll take pictures as it progresses. 
Title: Re: Pizza Oven in Outdoor Kitchen Project
Post by: RobynB on December 05, 2012, 05:33:29 PM
Let me know if you have any questions!  You have my email.  You must be so excited!!  Keep us informed  ;D
Title: Re: Pizza Oven in Outdoor Kitchen Project
Post by: JConk007 on December 05, 2012, 09:24:59 PM
Reep Is that the 1500 Lateral we spoke of going on there ?
Yes I think you need more concrete may not hold up!  :-D
John
Title: Re: Pizza Oven in Outdoor Kitchen Project
Post by: Chicago Bob on December 05, 2012, 09:32:44 PM
It could be if my girls were into horses as much as I would like to be.  The area you saw is actually an empty lot that some neighbors ride in.  Next to that is a lot with 2.5 horses (1 mini).  We are zoned for three horses, but so far I don't having any takers for stall mucking, so the back of our lot is just empty for now.
It is still a very nice view though...congats on the oven man!  :chef:
Title: Re: Pizza Oven in Outdoor Kitchen Project
Post by: Reep on December 06, 2012, 12:16:27 PM
Here are some pictures of the same model (1500 short, not lateral).  It is equivalent to a raised 950, but with an extension in the middle.  Antoine put one together and took some pictures:
Title: Re: Pizza Oven in Outdoor Kitchen Project
Post by: RobynB on December 06, 2012, 02:34:08 PM
{jealous}  That looks really great - I wish it had been an option for us.  I love our oven, but I definitely would have gone for the raised if I could have.  Can't wait to hear how you like it. 
Title: Re: Pizza Oven in Outdoor Kitchen Project
Post by: Reep on December 06, 2012, 02:53:52 PM
{jealous}  That looks really great - I wish it had been an option for us.  I love our oven, but I definitely would have gone for the raised if I could have.  Can't wait to hear how you like it. 

Definitely a three cat oven.  The problem is I only have two kitties so it will remain untested.
Title: Re: Pizza Oven in Outdoor Kitchen Project
Post by: Reep on December 11, 2012, 01:26:08 PM
Crates are arriving at the house this afternoon.  If it was for my darn job I could start assembly.  I'll make sure and get uncrating pictures, but it may not happen until this weekend.
Title: Re: Pizza Oven in Outdoor Kitchen Project
Post by: pizzaneer on December 11, 2012, 02:08:10 PM
It's the work you do that pays for the play! 

Since you brought it up, what's your occupation?
Title: Re: Pizza Oven in Outdoor Kitchen Project
Post by: Reep on December 11, 2012, 06:31:28 PM
It's the work you do that pays for the play!  

Since you brought it up, what's your occupation?

Patent Attorney.  Fun job getting to help people with their inventions.

And here is the first unveiling.  I was glad to see that the raised piece was added at the factory.  I thought that could be one more joint I had to seal when setting it up.  I might need to friends instead of one to help lift the pieces though.  The second picture is looking through the opening of the oven.  The bottom picture is the middle extension piece, which turns a 950B into a 1500B "short", although it looks plenty big.

Title: Re: Pizza Oven in Outdoor Kitchen Project
Post by: scott123 on December 11, 2012, 06:46:58 PM
Patent Attorney.

A patent attorney?  Really?  I'll trade you pizzamaking knowledge for legal advice  ;D Right now I've got at least 10 highly marketable ideas sitting around collecting dust because I'm too cheap to hire a lawyer  :)
Title: Re: Pizza Oven in Outdoor Kitchen Project
Post by: RobynB on December 11, 2012, 07:41:05 PM
Two friends??   :-D :-D :-D

Unless one of those friends is the Incredible Hulk, you will need at LEAST 3 friends and probably more.  For our smaller oven, when it came time to lift the dome pieces into place, we had FIVE guys and it still wasn't easy.  Line up some extras  ;)
Title: Re: Pizza Oven in Outdoor Kitchen Project
Post by: Reep on December 11, 2012, 07:51:21 PM
Two friends??   :-D :-D :-D

Unless one of those friends is the Incredible Hulk, you will need at LEAST 3 friends and probably more.  For our smaller oven, when it came time to lift the dome pieces into place, we had FIVE guys and it still wasn't easy.  Line up some extras  ;)

I'm not shocked, I may end up using the tractor.  I have a back hoe that might clear the wall to the cooking area and let me move the pieces that way.  Obviously that would have to be done carefully or my new FGM would turn quickly into wrecking ball.
Title: Re: Pizza Oven in Outdoor Kitchen Project
Post by: Chicago Bob on December 11, 2012, 07:56:16 PM
Rent a rubber tire/track mini back hoe.....
Title: Re: Pizza Oven in Outdoor Kitchen Project
Post by: Reep on December 11, 2012, 07:59:27 PM
I actually will see if the loader on mine can clear the fence with the pieces attached.  That would be easier to control.  If it doesn't, then I'll have to find some friends.  How many of us 40 to 50 year olds have friends with good backs?
Title: Re: Pizza Oven in Outdoor Kitchen Project
Post by: Chicago Bob on December 11, 2012, 08:29:35 PM
Since you're a patent attorney you probably still have lots of friends....offer a free pizza party to their strapping youngsters.... ;)
Title: Re: Pizza Oven in Outdoor Kitchen Project
Post by: ForrestM on December 11, 2012, 08:45:16 PM
Awesome!  Thanks for keeping us updated.  I look forward to watching your progress.
Title: Re: Pizza Oven in Outdoor Kitchen Project
Post by: breadstoneovens on December 18, 2012, 09:32:41 PM
Lifting the pieces into place takes about 2 to 3 people with a 2x4 that you pass through the metal wire loops. 2 young and strong guys with good backs to lift and one to guide them. I usually do the guiding  :-D
It is harder when the stand is kind of high-up. Then it is more like 3 or 4 people with a couple of 2x4. It is helpful to set-up either a little step-stool or scaffolding.
But it is so rewarding when it is all done  ;D

Title: Re: Pizza Oven in Outdoor Kitchen Project
Post by: Reep on December 19, 2012, 11:43:29 PM
Thanks Antoine.  I tried horsing around a couple of the floor pieces tonight and couldn't even budge them by myself.  I guess that puts it into perspective.  I guess I need to start promising pizza to a lot of friends because all mine have mid-life backs.

Antoine, in Robyn's installation, it looks like she has a bottom ceramic insulation, then a concrete looking layer, then the floor of the oven.  For mine it looks like I am to use two layers of the ceramic insulation and then the oven floor, is that correct?
Title: Re: Pizza Oven in Outdoor Kitchen Project
Post by: Chicago Bob on December 20, 2012, 12:13:01 AM
Reep, what up 'ol boy? Did you let your gym membership go ...slack!   ;D
j/k dude...git er done man, you gonna enjoy it.  :chef:
Bob
Title: Re: Pizza Oven in Outdoor Kitchen Project
Post by: breadstoneovens on December 20, 2012, 08:33:48 PM
Antoine, in Robyn's installation, it looks like she has a bottom ceramic insulation, then a concrete looking layer, then the floor of the oven.  For mine it looks like I am to use two layers of the ceramic insulation and then the oven floor, is that correct?

It takes 2 people to move the floor pieces and more like 3 for the dome pieces. Just spend all day doing just that.

Yes, you are correct for the floor installation.
Robin actually had something called vermiculite insulation which is standard with the older model of FGM ovens imported to the US.
Since I took over the import I told FGM to keep their vermiculite floor insulation. I personally add ceramic fiber board when the ovens arrive to my warehouse.  It is a little more expensive but a lot more efficient and easier to work with. Quality, only quality.

Yours is the same as Robyn's installation in the fashion that you will put the insulation, 2" total of ceramic fiber boards, 2 layers of the 1" thick boards. Over the insulation you will put the concrete floor and then the refractory brick tiles over it.
I have seen the center concrete piece of the concrete floor a little lower than the the front and back piece before. So when you will put the brick tiles you may need to put a little of the refractory clay between the tiles and the concrete to slightly raise them.

Call me if you have any question during the instal.

Antoine

Title: Re: Pizza Oven in Outdoor Kitchen Project
Post by: Reep on December 21, 2012, 11:45:25 AM
Thanks Antoine.  The installation should be easy, and I think I may only need one guy.  Chicago Bob goes to the gym often and I think he will be able to come down and place the pieces by himself.   :angel:

I will probably end up doing it on three stages.  First have my pizza loving friend over to help place the floor.  Second, set the floor tiles, and third, bring in some big guys to help put the dome pieces in place.  Mine will be a bit tricky because the back side of the oven platform drops another 18" so I may have to set up some scaffolding on that side in order for them to lift it high enough.
Title: Re: Pizza Oven in Outdoor Kitchen Project
Post by: Chicago Bob on December 21, 2012, 01:10:35 PM
Sounds like a plan.  ;)
"mid-life backs"....you crack me up Mr. Reep.  ;D
Hope it all goes smoothly for you. Call if you run into any snags.
Title: Re: Pizza Oven in Outdoor Kitchen Project
Post by: Reep on January 01, 2013, 01:31:06 AM
Finally got some help getting the foundation layer in.  Tomorrow I work with the sand and the oven floor.
Title: Re: Pizza Oven in Outdoor Kitchen Project
Post by: Reep on January 01, 2013, 04:28:31 PM
I started assembling the cooking tiles.  First, here are a few things I noticed that were less than perfect.  Not big problems, but less than perfect.

The first picture shows the alignment of the oven floor.  It is a bit stair stepped, which I thought would make balancing the floor a problem as each piece is higher toward the back of the oven than the front.  

The second picture shows a typical tile.  For each square tile, one edge was slightly bowed, which made really tight joints not possible.  

The third picture shows a fairly good gap at the back of the first joint. 

Additionally, a couple tiles had very minor chips in the corners (I put them toward the outside) and some major chips on the bottom side (which did not show).  Some had some big scratches and brick buildup on the bottom, which I had to remove with a rasp or they would not sit flat.  Another observation is that each tile appears to be slightly higher in the middle than on the edges, which ends up making fewer rough edges even though the joints aren't super tight.
Title: Re: Pizza Oven in Outdoor Kitchen Project
Post by: Reep on January 01, 2013, 04:35:18 PM
Now on the the first version of the floor and some questions. 

The first picture shows the whole floor (looks longer than it is due to wide angle lens).

The next three pictures show the floor height with a strait edge. 

Questions:

1) If I rub my hand over the surface, I really don't hit any big snags even though there are some gaps in the tiles and some highs and lows.  I did not perceive any place where a pizza or peel would catch on an edge.  Is that good enough?

2)  A couple tiles wobble a bit corner to corner (less than 1 mm of play), should I use sand to prevent that or just let it be as it doesn't provide any catch spots and the tiles will likely expand and contract anyway?

3)  Are the gaps between the tiles a concern?  I assume they will fill up with ash at some point.  Is a tighter fit more desirable?

4)  The gaps on the sides are quite large (1-2 cm).  Should I cut brick to put in there?  Put mortar and sand mixture?  Or, let it just fill up with ash?
Title: Re: Pizza Oven in Outdoor Kitchen Project
Post by: TXCraig1 on January 01, 2013, 04:40:50 PM
If you don't get an answer, send a PM to [Tom] Tscarborough.
Title: Re: Pizza Oven in Outdoor Kitchen Project
Post by: breadstoneovens on January 01, 2013, 05:04:19 PM
Hi Reep,

Forum members are welcome to comment with their expertise, but here is my answer.
The tiles are hand made which makes them so durable and ensure the high quality, yet they do have very slight default to the eye if put against a straight edge. A few extra tiles are provided just in case there is some damage during the shipping or too great of an imperfection on a tile.
Machine made tiles may appear perfect to the eye but will show their default once exposed to the heat.

1) Yes, it is just fine and I can guaranty you that the result when cooking will be perfect
2) As described in the installation guide you can put a little of the refractory clay,mixed with sand, under the wobbly tiles to level it perfectly. But with something of 1 mm or less, you can just let it as is. Once you start burning the wood, it will settle nicely
3) The tiles need that space to freely expend and retract. Once you will have cured your oven, any of the minor gap you describe will be barely visible.
4) As described in the installation guide you need to fill the gap on the perimeter of the floor where the tiles and the concrete meet with the refractory clay. Do not fill the space with bricks, this space is necessary as well so the tiles can expend and retract (otherwise they will crack over time). Once you place the dome, part of the gap will be covered.

Let me know if you need anything else.

Antoine


Title: Re: Pizza Oven in Outdoor Kitchen Project
Post by: Reep on January 01, 2013, 05:19:19 PM
Thanks Antoine.  I will say that it went together much easier than I anticipated.  If tiles were perfectly cut with exact edges, I think it would be almost impossible to get a surface with no catches.  I was a bit surprised that just placing them in with no sand did provide a surface that I could rub my hand around and not discern any catch points.
Title: Re: Pizza Oven in Outdoor Kitchen Project
Post by: Tscarborough on January 01, 2013, 11:00:12 PM
Ideally they would be at a 45 degree angle, but since they are already in, I wouldn't worry about it.  Gaps no problem.   You could get a grinding cup and smooth it off, but I am not convinced that it makes much difference, and unless you have more than 1/4" vertical difference between tiles I wouldn't bother..
Title: Re: Pizza Oven in Outdoor Kitchen Project
Post by: Reep on January 05, 2013, 06:49:48 PM
Okay, I reset the floor today with the sand/mortar mix.  Took a bit of time and is not perfect, but was an improvement.  Not that it matters a lot, but using the sand and mortar lifted the whole floor so now the floor is perfectly level with the entry tiles, rather than below them.  Before it was probably 95% of perfect, now it is probably 97%.  Close enough for me.

There is only one dodgy place and that is on the far left side where my fire will be.  I would post a picture, but it looks the same as above so no point.

Lesson learned: use the finest sand you can find.  I had troubles in a couple of thin spots with big pieces of sand acting as a fulcrum and had to pull the tile, remove the stone, and reset.
Title: Re: Pizza Oven in Outdoor Kitchen Project
Post by: Tscarborough on January 06, 2013, 04:18:29 PM
Yes, the size of the sand is a function of the desired joint, ideally, it will be 1/4 to 1/3, Maximum, of the desired joint.  It still needs to be graded from that size down, though (not consistently sized).
Title: Re: Pizza Oven in Outdoor Kitchen Project
Post by: Reep on February 28, 2013, 11:06:53 AM
It looks like we are on for installation of the dome tomorrow morning (finally!).  I'll try and get pictures and update the thread.   

Caputo 00 and San Marzano tomatoes are waiting in the kitchen. :drool: Since I still have to put the insulation on, get some utensils and some wood, they may be waiting a while longer.
Title: Re: Pizza Oven in Outdoor Kitchen Project
Post by: pizza dr on February 28, 2013, 11:30:23 PM
Don't forget the cure! 
Title: Re: Pizza Oven in Outdoor Kitchen Project
Post by: ForrestM on February 28, 2013, 11:42:30 PM
Hey Reep.  I just got mine put together.  I will be posting up a build thread soon.  It goes pretty fast when you get enough people together to lift things in place.
Title: Re: Pizza Oven in Outdoor Kitchen Project
Post by: Reep on March 01, 2013, 04:09:25 PM
Don't forget the cure! 

What do I have that needs a cure??? :o

Okay, just kidding.  Yeah, I need to get the insulation on next and get some wood and get it ready for the upcoming rain (until I get the vent piping done).
Title: Re: Pizza Oven in Outdoor Kitchen Project
Post by: Reep on March 01, 2013, 04:13:23 PM
Okay, had the crew out today of four strong backs (not mine) and got the oven put together.  It was a bit different because it had the middle section, which really needed to go in last.  Back first, then front, then middle. It all came together quickly though.  

With the raised option (which is built into the dome on my model, not separate), the pieces are very heavy. Four lean, but strong, guys had a hard time manipulating it in my awkward space.  Nothing else really surprising about it.  After the bottom is done, the dome was only three pieces--four if you count the arch.
Title: Re: Pizza Oven in Outdoor Kitchen Project
Post by: Chicago Bob on March 01, 2013, 04:24:13 PM
Coming along nicely there Reep...boy, what a view you'll have while standing in front baking in your oven. Stick some night floods down low there pointing out at your neighbors property.  8)

I have a club in Germany that we visit...out back of the rear patio faces a half football field sized area that is all light up at night and the locals do combat/police type training out there with their German Shepperd dogs(guys in mummy suits,etc.)...your set up reminded me of that...
Title: Re: Pizza Oven in Outdoor Kitchen Project
Post by: Reep on March 01, 2013, 04:27:01 PM
Question:

What do I have to do before I can start breaking it in (curing)?  I plan on attaching the flue connector tonight.  Do I need the insulation first?  After that can I just start heating it up.  I plan to run a longer chimney (about 4 feet with dual elbows to offset the chimney over the oven) and build a metal stud/concrete board enclosure to cover it.  After that the concrete board will be covered with stone veneer and stucco (eventually).  

Bob, yeah, the view is nice, and it overlooks the sunset on the Santa Monica mountains.  The whole kitchen was designed to look that direction while cooking--and block parts of the view that aren't as interesting.
Title: Re: Pizza Oven in Outdoor Kitchen Project
Post by: Jon in Albany on March 01, 2013, 06:33:20 PM
Do the pieces just fit together (tongue and groove kind of thing) or do you have to mortar pieces together?

Looks great. I am thoroughly jealous.
Title: Re: Pizza Oven in Outdoor Kitchen Project
Post by: breadstoneovens on March 01, 2013, 09:05:17 PM
What do I have to do before I can start breaking it in (curing)?  
Hi Reep,

Once you have put on the flue connector you can start your small and gentle fires to start the curing process. It is better to have the insulation on when you do that, but not required. Having the insulation on helps keeping the oven at a study temperature without much of a fire and the water can evaporate slowly.
Start a small fire and when the flames start touching the dome, spread the fire out and let it die down.
Keep the fires small for a couple of days, with the flame not touching the dome. You don't need a continuous fire, just a fire every hour or so to keep the dome warm. As a good rule of thumb, if you can't touch the dome with your hand, it is too hot and you need to let it cool down some.
The dome thermometer shouldn't get above 60 C or 150 F for the first 8 hours of fire. The second day the dome thermometer shouldn't get above 70 C or 160 F.
On the third day you can slowly bring your oven dome temp to 90 C or 190 F
On the fourth day, through out the course of the day, you will be able to slowly bring your oven to full temperature.

Let me know if you need anything else.

Antoine
Title: Re: Pizza Oven in Outdoor Kitchen Project
Post by: Reep on March 01, 2013, 09:15:29 PM
Thanks Antoine.  I was reading over the next steps about the insulation.  A bit confused on the foil part.  Is that something I get and use?  I didn't see it in the box.  Do I triple insulate with the layers and then cover it with heavy duty aluminum foil and aluminum tape (which I do have)?

Jon, yes the pieces do have an overlap.  I think this is the same for the two-piece domes too.  Mine is three-piece and has a center arch, which has at least a 1" (maybe 1.5") overlap on both sides.  Plenty of space to work with.  The joint between the dome and the floor is a butt joint.  This is actually better as you can move the dome pieces around a bit to get them in the right place.
Title: Re: Pizza Oven in Outdoor Kitchen Project
Post by: JConk007 on March 01, 2013, 10:25:27 PM
Looks great !!
Title: Re: Pizza Oven in Outdoor Kitchen Project
Post by: Reep on March 02, 2013, 12:09:35 AM
I must say that I really do like the internal dimensions.  The raised height with the semi-deep oven really looks versatile--although the 950B raised probably would have been enough.  Pizza will be the primary use of course, but I can see a lot of potential for other things as well. 
Title: Re: Pizza Oven in Outdoor Kitchen Project
Post by: Reep on March 02, 2013, 12:20:11 AM
Here are some pictures of the guys who actually did the work.  Also, of the inside of the oven.  I used a wide angle lens to get it, so it isn't really 20' deep. 
Title: Re: Pizza Oven in Outdoor Kitchen Project
Post by: Jet_deck on March 02, 2013, 12:24:14 AM
Nice build, it looks deady pizza serious.  I can't wait to see the curing fires and some pizza.
Title: Re: Pizza Oven in Outdoor Kitchen Project
Post by: Chicago Bob on March 02, 2013, 12:31:09 AM
Hey Reep, In pic #2...were you waiting to hear the big bad Kaaa-raaack!! sound or what man?   :-D

Sweet oven dude..this is going to be nice.  ;)

Bob
Title: Re: Pizza Oven in Outdoor Kitchen Project
Post by: breadstoneovens on March 02, 2013, 10:24:41 AM
Do I triple insulate with the layers and then cover it with heavy duty aluminum foil and aluminum tape (which I do have)?
Yes, you triple insulate with the provided ceramic fiber blanket to get 3" thickness of insulation. Then you can put foil over it, but wait you are done with the curing fire to put the foil so the water can evaporate properly. Otherwise the water gets trapped between the insulation and the foil and you have water running down the sides.

Antoine
Title: Re: Pizza Oven in Outdoor Kitchen Project
Post by: TXCraig1 on March 02, 2013, 10:29:00 AM
The aluminium foil is a radiant hear barrier, or does it serve another purpose?
Title: Re: Pizza Oven in Outdoor Kitchen Project
Post by: breadstoneovens on March 02, 2013, 10:29:58 AM
Here are some pictures of the guys who actually did the work.
It is much easier to lift the dome pieces when 2x4 are run through the wire loops built in the dome pieces. However they remain heavy, so the oven last a really long time ;D
Title: Re: Pizza Oven in Outdoor Kitchen Project
Post by: breadstoneovens on March 02, 2013, 10:32:15 AM
The aluminium foil is a radiant hear barrier, or does it serve another purpose?
The aluminum is mostly used as a radiant heat barrier. Also, if for some reason water was to make its way through the enclosure, the foil would prevent water from getting into the insulation or the oven.

Antoine
Title: Re: Pizza Oven in Outdoor Kitchen Project
Post by: Reep on March 02, 2013, 01:08:48 PM
It is much easier to lift the dome pieces when 2x4 are run through the wire loops built in the dome pieces. However they remain heavy, so the oven last a really long time ;D

Yeah, I told them that, but there were two issues.  First, they didn't trust that the wires were strong enough and were afraid it would drop.  I explained that they likely used them to load them on the pallets, but they didn't buy it.  Second, the installation area was pretty tight and has a big drop off on two sides and a wall on the other.  I'm not sure they could have taken the dome that high safely with 2x4s.  They ended up sliding it up a big board to oven level and then all getting on top to do the final lifting.

Bob, yeah I was quite nervous about the oven floor.  I had faith that the dome pieces were very strong, but I could see them dropping it onto the floor that I had worked so hard on.  In hind sight I would have taped a double thick layer of something, or cut out a board to put over the oven floor to protect it.  It ended up being okay though.
Title: Re: Pizza Oven in Outdoor Kitchen Project
Post by: Reep on March 03, 2013, 06:31:24 PM
First fire:

I just finished the insulation and had to get the first fire going.  Yeah!
Title: Re: Pizza Oven in Outdoor Kitchen Project
Post by: Jon in Albany on March 03, 2013, 06:39:16 PM
So sweet. 3 more days to pizza....but who's counting.
Title: Re: Pizza Oven in Outdoor Kitchen Project
Post by: Chicago Bob on March 03, 2013, 09:16:07 PM
First fire:

I just finished the insulation and had to get the first fire going.  Yeah!

Yes sir!  :chef:
I wonder if it would make much progress if one was to place at the opening a small electric heater that has a fan in it and you could just let that run when you're not able to be right there to tend to a live fire?  Just a thought...
Bob
Title: Re: Pizza Oven in Outdoor Kitchen Project
Post by: breadstoneovens on March 03, 2013, 10:05:39 PM
I wonder if it would make much progress if one was to place at the opening a small electric heater that has a fan
Bob,
You can, and it is what I do when I assemble them. It takes an entire week to cure an oven with a small heater with a fan going days and nights.
However if you had a small fire going for a few hours with the insulation on, you don't need to. Once you oven has gained some heat, between the insulation and the thermal mass of the FGM, the retained heat will last for a day or so and continue curing even once the fire is out. That is why you only need a total of 3 days of 8 hours of fire per day. The rest of the time the residual water continues evaporating from the residual heat.

Antoine
Title: Re: Pizza Oven in Outdoor Kitchen Project
Post by: Reep on March 10, 2013, 08:13:44 PM
Progress is slow, but steady.  I was able to cure the oven over the last week or so and then got the insulation on.  This weekend I was able to finish the cure, get the foil on and get the framing done.  Next couple weekends are kind of booked, so not sure when the next steps will start, but at least it is up and running.
Title: Re: Pizza Oven in Outdoor Kitchen Project
Post by: Serpentelli on March 10, 2013, 08:30:13 PM
Reep,

That framework looks 99.99% like mine. One thing I would suggest is that if you are planning on having a light shining own onto your hearth from above then make sure your guys insulate the heck out of that chimney so it doesn't melt the electrical wiring that would need to go between the chimney and your cement/backer board. Even though the chimney is double wall it still gets HOT!

PM me if I'm not making sense.

Very jealous!

John K 
Title: Re: Pizza Oven in Outdoor Kitchen Project
Post by: Serpentelli on March 10, 2013, 08:49:58 PM
This is what I am talking about.

Prior to stuffing 2 layers of ceramic insulation between the chimney and the cement board the wire would have melted! :o

John K
Title: Re: Pizza Oven in Outdoor Kitchen Project
Post by: Reep on March 10, 2013, 09:28:49 PM
Reep,

That framework looks 99.99% like mine. One thing I would suggest is that if you are planning on having a light shining own onto your hearth from above then make sure your guys insulate the heck out of that chimney so it doesn't melt the electrical wiring that would need to go between the chimney and your cement/backer board. Even though the chimney is double wall it still gets HOT!

PM me if I'm not making sense.

Very jealous!

John K

Thanks for the info John.  I decided not to run any electric in the oven for that reason.  Nice and simple.  It's going to have to look ugly for a year or so.  The next weekend I get I will complete the walls (with wonderboard) seal it up and then it will have to wait until next year for the rock finish.  Tax man redistributed all my finish money for this year. 
Title: Re: Pizza Oven in Outdoor Kitchen Project
Post by: Serpentelli on March 10, 2013, 09:42:58 PM
Thanks for the info John.  I decided not to run any electric in the oven for that reason.  Nice and simple.  It's going to have to look ugly for a year or so.

Oh she ain't ugly man!!! :D

In support of the light: Cheap, relatively hard to go wrong over time, and invaluable for "night cooking". With the fixture, it added about $450 to the project.

John K
Title: Re: Pizza Oven in Outdoor Kitchen Project
Post by: Pizzaddict on March 14, 2013, 09:47:56 AM
Reep,

I'm really enjoying your build thread, as well as learning from you!

I'm planning on framing around my oven for cement board and a stone veneer as well.

Do you know what gauge steel studs you are using, and where did you get them?

Thanks!

Bob
Title: Re: Pizza Oven in Outdoor Kitchen Project
Post by: Reep on March 14, 2013, 11:54:27 AM
Reep,

I'm really enjoying your build thread, as well as learning from you!

I'm planning on framing around my oven for cement board and a stone veneer as well.

Do you know what gauge steel studs you are using, and where did you get them?

Thanks!

Bob

I just used the standard 25 gauge 2.5" studs and tracks from Home Depot.  They seem to work fine.  I bought self tapping screws, but wouldn't do that again.  I would just predrill and use a pointed end screw.  Holding the stud pieces together while trying to push a self tapping screw through was more difficult that just drilling and screwing.  The 3.75" studs seemed like overkill (and it would have been) and it pushed into my insulation then also.
Title: Re: Pizza Oven in Outdoor Kitchen Project
Post by: Reep on March 14, 2013, 10:20:41 PM
Started putting up the wonderboard on the frame:  First layer was easy.  Second layer needed an extra set of hands to hold it up on the back side.

Title: Re: Pizza Oven in Outdoor Kitchen Project
Post by: JConk007 on March 15, 2013, 12:55:35 AM
Oh Yeah !! looks very good  Can you find any natural field stone in your area  thats what I used on Mine. Even a trunk load at a time maybe?
It works but I am not a big fan of fake rock or the cost, brick is allways cool too. Do the  lights! wish I had em onmy home oven, but that was 8 years ago before everybody started with these crazy cool builds ! 
Oh (hint, hint) Look for a big white truck tomorrow and a Big box !
John
Title: Re: Pizza Oven in Outdoor Kitchen Project
Post by: Reep on March 15, 2013, 11:47:39 AM
Oh Yeah !! looks very good  Can you find any natural field stone in your area  thats what I used on Mine. Even a trunk load at a time maybe?
It works but I am not a big fan of fake rock or the cost, brick is allways cool too. Do the  lights! wish I had em onmy home oven, but that was 8 years ago before everybody started with these crazy cool builds ! 
Oh (hint, hint) Look for a big white truck tomorrow and a Big box !
John

Thanks John.  The oven will be covered in a mix of stacked stone (the same as all around the pool area, on the sides and bottom) and stucco (on the face of the oven and the chimney) with some tile implants and some pseudo-fresco painting on the stucco (grapes and leaves). 

I hear you guys on the lights, but I really don't want a big light on my oven (takes away from the final look of my design).  I might hook up some lights over the prep area though.  I will have some kind of lighting, but I prefer something more diffuse.  I will have outlets everywhere to plug in extra light if needed.  Do you really need light on the landing?  I would think the prep area would be enough.
Title: Re: Pizza Oven in Outdoor Kitchen Project
Post by: z-man on March 15, 2013, 04:03:53 PM
Good job so far Reep. What a coinsidence I am planning for just about the same build and oven as you just a few weeks behind. I did finally manage to get the foundation poured today. Looking forward to following your progress.

Cheers!
Title: Re: Pizza Oven in Outdoor Kitchen Project
Post by: Reep on March 19, 2013, 12:52:23 PM
I was able to to get more of the cover up, so now it is protected from the elements.  I need to put up a few more boards, and then finish the joints and gaps.  Then I can start on the chimney structure.  I also made my own coal hook.  It's a bit different than the usual shape, but it works well in my deep oven.

Assembly notes: I used Wonderboard, but did use the screws for Hardie board because I wanted the square drive.  They work great and I see no reason not to use them.  I predrilled holes just to make it easier.
    Also, don't even think about trying full 4x8 cement board until you have picked it up.  I got lucky with my dimensions, but I would highly recommend using the 5x3 cement boards and making your widest dimension 5' or less so you don't have to cut bigger pieces. 
   I'm hanging rock veneer on mine, so I'm going double layer.  If you need to attach a second layer, or don't have a shelf to rest the cement board on, then cut a small manageable board piece to place on the bottom, and then use that as a shelf to support the larger piece on top while you screw it into place.
Title: Re: Pizza Oven in Outdoor Kitchen Project
Post by: Reep on March 20, 2013, 10:59:09 AM
We just had the other appliances installed, so the kitchen is up and running--even if it will be another year before we get the decorative finish on.
Title: Re: Pizza Oven in Outdoor Kitchen Project
Post by: Chicago Bob on March 20, 2013, 02:58:01 PM
Reep,
Is that a Char-Broiler just to the right of your grill...I am wanting one real bad for outside.
Your helper appears to be quite content, what do you pay her with...Happy Meals?   :)
Title: Re: Pizza Oven in Outdoor Kitchen Project
Post by: Reep on March 20, 2013, 04:23:25 PM
Reep,
Is that a Char-Broiler just to the right of your grill...I am wanting one real bad for outside.
Your helper appears to be quite content, what do you pay her with...Happy Meals?   :)

Payment is in hugs and kisses. 

On the left side of the grill is a warming drawer, but on the right is a searing station and then a wok burner.  I'm not a big steak guy, but I thought it would be very nice for those times when I want to really sear the outside of some meat.  The grill will hopefully be only for those times when I don't have time to get the wood fire going.
Title: Re: Pizza Oven in Outdoor Kitchen Project
Post by: ForrestM on March 21, 2013, 12:54:39 PM
looks great!
Title: Re: Pizza Oven in Outdoor Kitchen Project
Post by: altheg on March 28, 2013, 06:05:52 PM
Reep, nice choice of equipment.  I also have been building an outdoor kitchen and have chosen the 950C raised version with the Alfresco line of BBQ equipment.  In my case, the entire backyard is complete including oven stand, but I have not yet begun to assemble the pizza oven.  I'll start after tax season.  I'm still deciding on the details of the enclosure, but the profile of the oven rather limits the choice to a box shape.
Title: Re: Pizza Oven in Outdoor Kitchen Project
Post by: Reep on April 16, 2013, 12:26:44 PM
A couple of updates on the oven--and love of my life.

Heat up time is less than three hours.  I have yet to just sit and focus on heat up without distraction.  I think I could probably get it up to fill heat in 2.5 hours if I wanted.  For newbies like me, the critical part is the first hour or so.  You should make sure the fire is going will during that time (enough air, the right size wood).  After that, it almost runs itself.

I have yet to try the lower door insert, because I like watching the fire with the big opening.  Next bake I will try it.