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Offline CaptBob

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Re: Post a Pic of Your Pie - Daily Update
« Reply #19420 on: November 27, 2021, 05:46:18 PM »
90% KABF and 10% Einkorn AP. Really light and crispy.
Bob

Offline TurkeyOnRye

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Re: Post a Pic of Your Pie - Daily Update
« Reply #19421 on: November 27, 2021, 09:15:57 PM »
Room temperature ferment. Each about 72% hydration.

Offline Elchimi

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Post a Pic of Your Pie - Daily Update
« Reply #19422 on: November 27, 2021, 09:26:27 PM »
Altitude pie,
Made dough at 5280ft,
8h RT, then 24h at 5c in fridge.
Baked on stone for about 8min at 9000ft.

Offline RHawthorne

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Re: Post a Pic of Your Pie - Daily Update
« Reply #19423 on: November 27, 2021, 11:06:26 PM »
Altitude pie,
Made dough at 5280ft,
8h RT, then 24h at 5c in fridge.
Baked on stone for about 8min at 9000ft.
This is the first time I've seen anybody make note of the exact altitudes at which doughs were fermented and baked. Have you fermented your dough at each of those different altitudes, and if so, what kind of differences have you experienced between them?
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Offline Elchimi

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Re: Post a Pic of Your Pie - Daily Update
« Reply #19424 on: November 27, 2021, 11:43:17 PM »
This is the first time I've seen anybody make note of the exact altitudes at which doughs were fermented and baked. Have you fermented your dough at each of those different altitudes, and if so, what kind of differences have you experienced between them?
I mixed the dough in Denver, and soon after we left for the mountains. We just put the whole dough in the car and once we were at our cabin at 9000ft I balled it and put it in the fridge over night. Tricky part is using less yeast at altitude that it doesnít overferment. Some people say use 50% less yeast or so.
Then baking the pizza also takes more time.
Making dough at 9000ft is really difficult since it blows up pretty quickly and you may not get enough flavor in.

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Offline RHawthorne

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Re: Post a Pic of Your Pie - Daily Update
« Reply #19425 on: November 27, 2021, 11:49:15 PM »
I mixed the dough in Denver, and soon after we left for the mountains. We just put the whole dough in the car and once we were at our cabin at 9000ft I balled it and put it in the fridge over night. Tricky part is using less yeast at altitude that it doesnít overferment. Some people say use 50% less yeast or so.
Then baking the pizza also takes more time.
Making dough at 9000ft is really difficult since it blows up pretty quickly and you may not get enough flavor in.
I guess I never realized that high altitude can have such a pronounced impact on fermentation. That's interesting.
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Offline Elchimi

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Re: Post a Pic of Your Pie - Daily Update
« Reply #19426 on: November 27, 2021, 11:56:12 PM »
I guess I never realized that high altitude can have such a pronounced impact on fermentation. That's interesting.
It really has some impact on your product.
People who moved to Denver complain that their baking is off due to altitude. I learned baking in Denver so It doesnít bother me too much, but I guess if I would move back to sea level my baking will be off too, just the other way aroundÖ

Offline AJ33

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Re: Post a Pic of Your Pie - Daily Update
« Reply #19427 on: November 28, 2021, 03:53:07 PM »
Weekend pies cooked at an ambient outside temperature of 3*C. Which in hindsight meant the bottoms cooked faster than the tops because I dropped the flames down. Next time, at similar temps I would kill the flames by only half.

Offline Atheen_

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Re: Papa T "Grumpy Old Man" same day stuffed crust Pizza, PH Supreme style
« Reply #19428 on: November 28, 2021, 08:16:00 PM »
Hi, guys.

So, I went completely off the rails today. I wanted a good same day deep dish dough, because my husband told me he was craving PH at lunch time. But he also wanted a stuffed crust Pizza... 🤔

Thanks to Pete posting his "emergency" list, I found PapaT's "Grumpy Old Man" recipe. Which of course, I tweaked, because that's what I do. Added a little sugar and little olive oil to bring it closer to PH. Also added more IDY, because by the time I was done with my research, it was already close to 4pm, and I didn't have 4 hours for that dough to rise.

Which brings the ingredients to :

Flour, KAAP, 261 grams
Water, tap hot, 182 grams
Salt, 6 grams
Sugar, 1 heaping tsp
Yeast, IDY, SAF Red, a heaping 1/4 tsp

Tossed the ball in a little olive oil, covered, and stuck in my oven under proofing, for about an hour and a half.

Then added 3 Tbsp of Olive oil in my 13x9 USA Pan, dumped the dough in, gently stretched without having the oil get on top of the dough, covered, waited 30 minutes, finished stretching to the sides.

Added 5 mozzarella sticks cut in 2 lenght wise on all 4 sides, and rolled the dough inwards around the sticks. Pinched to seal.

Added about 3/4 cup of zesty tomato sauce, added a light sprinkle of low moisture mozarella, and added the toppings (kalamata olives, mushrooms, sausage, green bell peppers), before covering it all with more mozarella. Added Hormel turkey pepperoni on top.

The mushrooms were canned pieces and stems that I had sauteed with a spray of OO and some black pepper until they started to golden, avoid water release. Same thing for the green peppers, which I charred in the same non stick pan after I did the mushrooms, so they'd be already cooked before going on the pizza.

The sauce was done on the spot, with 4 pressed Garlic cloves  fried in a Tbsp of Olive oil, then add a Tbsp of tomato paste, a small can of Contadina tomato sauce, 1 tsp of mediterrean oregano, a 1/4 tsp sea salt, and a little cayenne. I add a Tbsp of parmesan to the sauce at the end.

It cooked in a preheated 450 oven, on top of my pizza stone for 9 minutes, I then increased the temp to 475 for 7 minutes.

The pizza was slid out of the pan immediately, I then waited 2-3 minutes before slicing it.

No leftovers, and a happy happy husband.

I plan on trying Pete's modified PH recipe next week end, a day in advance, and in the Chicago 16 deep dish I ordered on Amazon.

And now, some pictures!

God bless,


Atheen

Offline jsaras

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Re: Post a Pic of Your Pie - Daily Update
« Reply #19429 on: November 28, 2021, 10:21:24 PM »
Camarillo bar pizza with Italian sausage, green olives, garlic, Saputo Premium Gold Mozz, Pecorino Romano, Parmigiano Reggiano, Mutti Pelati Tomatoes and Basil.  Dough fermented for 10 hours at room temperature.
Things have never been more like today than they are right now.

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Offline foreplease

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Re: Papa T "Grumpy Old Man" same day stuffed crust Pizza, PH Supreme style
« Reply #19430 on: November 28, 2021, 11:18:46 PM »

Atheen_,
Thanks for posting your recipe, thoughts & changes, and photos. Itís a very good sign that there were no leftovers and your husband was happy with it.


Youíll not hear this too often on this forum but I think given the time constraints you could have used even more IDY. I assumed that a heaping 1/4 teaspoon of IDY could amount to a half teaspoon. If so, you used approximately 1.575 g IDY, which is around 0.06 IDY in 261 g flour. Within the time constraints you mentioned, you could have tried 0.08% - or even 1%.


Your pizzas will continue to improve if you can let the dough ferment more slowly over a longer period of time. But, I congratulate you and look forward to seeing what is next. Good luck. Keep payimg attention to the details, including time and temperature at different stages.

Hi, guys.

So, I went completely off the rails today. I wanted a good same day deep dish dough, because my husband told me he was craving PH at lunch time. But he also wanted a stuffed crust Pizza... 🤔

Thanks to Pete posting his "emergency" list, I found PapaT's "Grumpy Old Man" recipe. Which of course, I tweaked, because that's what I do. Added a little sugar and little olive oil to bring it closer to PH. Also added more IDY, because by the time I was done with my research, it was already close to 4pm, and I didn't have 4 hours for that dough to rise.

Which brings the ingredients to :

Flour, KAAP, 261 grams
Water, tap hot, 182 grams
Salt, 6 grams
Sugar, 1 heaping tsp
Yeast, IDY, SAF Red, a heaping 1/4 tsp

Tossed the ball in a little olive oil, covered, and stuck in my oven under proofing, for about an hour and a half.

Then added 3 Tbsp of Olive oil in my 13x9 USA Pan, dumped the dough in, gently stretched without having the oil get on top of the dough, covered, waited 30 minutes, finished stretching to the sides.

Added 5 mozzarella sticks cut in 2 lenght wise on all 4 sides, and rolled the dough inwards around the sticks. Pinched to seal.

Added about 3/4 cup of zesty tomato sauce, added a light sprinkle of low moisture mozarella, and added the toppings (kalamata olives, mushrooms, sausage, green bell peppers), before covering it all with more mozarella. Added Hormel turkey pepperoni on top.

The mushrooms were canned pieces and stems that I had sauteed with a spray of OO and some black pepper until they started to golden, avoid water release. Same thing for the green peppers, which I charred in the same non stick pan after I did the mushrooms, so they'd be already cooked before going on the pizza.

The sauce was done on the spot, with 4 pressed Garlic cloves  fried in a Tbsp of Olive oil, then add a Tbsp of tomato paste, a small can of Contadina tomato sauce, 1 tsp of mediterrean oregano, a 1/4 tsp sea salt, and a little cayenne. I add a Tbsp of parmesan to the sauce at the end.

It cooked in a preheated 450 oven, on top of my pizza stone for 9 minutes, I then increased the temp to 475 for 7 minutes.

The pizza was slid out of the pan immediately, I then waited 2-3 minutes before slicing it.

No leftovers, and a happy happy husband.

I plan on trying Pete's modified PH recipe next week end, a day in advance, and in the Chicago 16 deep dish I ordered on Amazon.

And now, some pictures!

God bless,


Atheen
-Tony

Offline Papa T

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Re: Post a Pic of Your Pie - Daily Update
« Reply #19431 on: November 30, 2021, 04:26:10 AM »
A 10 inch sourdough grandma-ish pizza, in thickness, but not in hydration or shape. Much less hydration used in this version, and it was baked in a round pan. Just flour, water, salt, and sourdough starter. No oil or sugar added to the dough.

The hydration on this iteration of my sourdough experiments was 59%. Iíve done so many sourdough pizza experiments over the past month for just myself, and friends (who have yet to be pizza-ed out!), that I wanted to scale back on the pan size for when Iím the only person eating it. Iíve been using a quarter sheet pan, 9x13x1 inches, of commercial grade shiny aluminum. It works great, as does its half sheet sibling.

However, if there is more pizza, I will eat more pizza. I wanted to use a smaller pan when Iím the only one eating it, so I decided to use my 10x1 round Lloyd pan, typically used for South Shore or bar style pies. Works great for this grandma-ish pizza, and is only 78.5 square inches versus the 117 sq/in of the quarter sheet pan. Portion Control 101, LOL.

Iíve made so much pizza the past few weeks that a friend gifted me a five pound bag of shredded LMPS mozzarella cheese. It was the store brand Memberís Mark from Samís Club, and cost them $12.26 or $2.45/lb. I normally donít use pre-shredded cheese, but in my experimentation mode, Iíve been using whatís cheap, on sale, and available because of the amount Iíve been baking.

My frequent pizza baking experiments are for learning more about using sourdough for different styles of pizza, and not so much about the toppings. With that said, I will admit that the Samís brand cheese had decent flavor and melt for LMPS, better that the typical brands found in the small bags hanging in grocery stores. It does list cellulose in the ingredients to prevent caking, but I honestly couldnít feel or see it. With many of the grocery store brands, your fingers will have powder residue on them that you can see and feel after you use it. I didnít get that with this Samís house brand.

Anyway, I made this pizza with a grandma style thickness in mind, so around a 0.127 TF, 285g/10 oz of dough for a 10 inch pan.

KAAP flour, about 160 g, 100%
Water, about 89 g, 55%
Salt, about 3 g, 2%
Sourdough starter (100% hydration), about 33 g, 20%.
With the sourdough starter figured in, the total dough hydration comes in around 59.7%.

The KAAP is an excellent strong AP flour at 11.7% protein, that is unbleached and unbromated. It also has a bit of malted barley flour which bring some enzymes to the mix, and which cannot exceed 0.75% of the flour weight by federal law. For a five pound (80 ounce) bag, that would be no more the 0.6 ounces of malted barley flour.

For this dough batch, I made my starter using 10 grams of my sourdough culture, and added 20 grams each of water and flour, then mixed it. Thatís a 1:2:2 ratio for those keeping score, for a total of 50 grams. I keep my sourdough culture and make my starters at 100% hydration to make calculating how they figure into a dough mix easier. When the starter peaks, having grown 3-4 times the original volume, I stir, then scoop out the amount I need to add to the dough mix, in this case, 33 grams. I add whatís left over to my discard jar in the fridge for other uses. The starter nearly quadrupled in volume after four hours, so it was dough mixing time.

The dough was left RT to rise, and took about 10 hours total time to be ready to bake. My RT was around 73F. After mixing, I formed it into a tight ball and put in a covered bowl to rise. When it was around 60% of doubling in size, which took about six hours, I removed it to finish the rise in the pan. I prepped the pan by applying to the bottom and all sides some of my homemade goop*, but Crisco alone will work fine, too. I spread the dough to fill the pan, then apply about a teaspoon of oil to the dough and spread it all over the surface using my hands. Not too much. Just enough to lightly coat. Once applied, I flip the dough over, tidy it up a bit to the edges, and cover it with another pan to finish rising.

The dough was ready after about another 4 hours. I check the dough periodically to see how itís rising, and decided to preheat my oven around three hours into the pan rise. Iíve gotten to know how the sourdough behaves in my kitchen fairly well now.

Iíve started parbaking my grandma, Sicilian, and Detroit style pizzas most of the time. I donít always do it, but most of the time I do. It has provided me with a way to ensure consistent bakes, regardless of toppings used. By parbaking, the dough springs well. Without parbaking, if there are a lot of toppings, or they are heavy, it can keep the dough from springing to its full potential. Parbaking helps fix that. I parbake 8-10 minutes depending on the dough formulation used, and gauge it by the spring and using an offset spatula to peek at the bottom starting around 8 minutes.

With just a 10 hour RT rise, the sourdough starter brings a lot of flavor. You could cultivate more if desired by putting the dough in the fridge when it rises to the 50-70% range and let it do a CF for a few days. The longer, the more sourdough like it will taste, and two or three days seems optimal for a pronounced sourdough hit. When ready, take out the dough to warm up and finish rising, then use as intended.

Iíve been baking the various pan pizzas at in the 450-465F range for about 20 minutes, with the parbake being the first 8-10 minutes of that. I always use a stone on the bottom rack and put the pan on the stone. The dough bottom will bake more evenly when the pan is put on a preheated stone. The bottom rack works best in my oven. Yours may differ. This one baked for 20 minutes total as Iíve done with the others. The bottom came out a bit more brown than I prefer, but still was quite tasty. I forgot that using the darker Lloyd pan will bake the dough bottom faster than the shiny aluminum pan. Many though, would prefer the darker bake. Perhaps even darker.

I topped the parbake with a simple homemade sauce, the Samís Club mozzarella, some ground sausage I had browned earlier, and some diced onions. Once topped, I sprinkled on some dried oregano, and fresh ground black pepper. Back into the oven for another 10 minutes. When I came out of the oven, I sprinkled on some grated Pecorino Romano. Yummy yum yums.

The only oil used on the dough was that that I spread on it before flipping it over in the pan. Just that small amount of oil, and the goop I applied (or Crisco) to prevent sticking, creates a crispy-crunchy bottom, and a crust that is not laden with oil from basically deep frying in the pan like most pan pizzas. I like this way much better. It stays crispy and crunchy a good while, too. I ate every square inch of it.

*Goop is a mix of AP or bread flour, neutral oil, and Crisco (shortening), in equal parts by volume, to use as a non-stick coating on pans for anything baked. Itís an old time non-stick thing that just works. Iíve never had any bread, muffin, cake, brownie, pizza, etc., stick to a pan when using it. Make it by using equal parts by volume of each ingredients, and whisk until itís a creamy paste. I use 1/8 cup of each, and then store it in an air tight container on my counter, though it can be kept in the fridge. It will just get a bit thicker. I generally make this small batch every three to four months and have never had an issue leaving it on the counter. Your mileage may vary.
« Last Edit: November 30, 2021, 09:45:31 PM by Papa T »
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Every pizza is good.

Making good pizza is not that hard, unless we choose to make it that way.

The best pizza you'll ever make for someone is making the one they ask for instead of making it the way we think it should be made.

Offline sodface

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Re: Post a Pic of Your Pie - Daily Update
« Reply #19432 on: November 30, 2021, 08:15:53 PM »
Moments ago. Homemade frozen pizza with black olives.
Carl

Offline foreplease

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Re: Papa T "Grumpy Old Man" same day stuffed crust Pizza, PH Supreme style
« Reply #19433 on: November 30, 2021, 10:41:34 PM »

Youíll not hear this too often on this forum but I think given the time constraints you could have used even more IDY. I assumed that a heaping 1/4 teaspoon of IDY could amount to a half teaspoon. If so, you used approximately 1.575 g IDY, which is around 0.06 IDY in 261 g flour. Within the time constraints you mentioned, you could have tried 0.08% - or even 1%.
Atheen_ I got sloppy with my decimals and percentages, something I am never confused about but failed to convey clearly. My basic advice in arrears remains the same:more yeast for the time you had would have been ok. The correct numbers are:


I estimated you used 1.575 g yeast in your 261 g flour. That = 0.6% of the flour weight, which is 0.006 as a decimal.


I then said you could have tried 0.08% or even 1%. Those are two very different numbers. I should have said 0.8% (which is 0.008 x the flour weight) - or as much as 1% (which is 0.01 x the flour weight). This stuff can be confusing enough without me typing it wrong. I just wanted to clear this up. I hope you see this and that you will keep posting your results.

-Tony

Offline Atheen_

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Re: Post a Pic of Your Pie - Daily Update
« Reply #19434 on: December 01, 2021, 02:08:49 AM »
Thank you for clarifying! I am trying the 24h PH xPHmgr recipe with Pete's adjustments this week end, but next time I need a same day crust, I'll be sure to try PapaT's recipe again, this time with more yeast to your specifications!

Thank you again.  :D

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Offline RHawthorne

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Re: Post a Pic of Your Pie - Daily Update
« Reply #19435 on: December 01, 2021, 02:12:40 PM »
Today's bake, first time posting in a little while. A little experimentation going on; 50/50 blend of GM unbleached bromated flour and Caputo Nuvola Super "0", 66% hydration, 24 hrs RT followed by about 63 hrs CF with one set of stretches and folds. Also the least amount of yeast I've ever used in a dough, 0.04% ADY. First time using Sapporito Super Dolce tomatoes. I wasn't sure if it was going to be a thick product, and it is, which I'm not thrilled with. Watered it down and added some olive oil, balsamic vinegar, and sea salt. Flavor was pretty good pre-bake, but it somehow almost completely disappeared on the finished. That's a first for me. Baked with anthracite coal at around 700 degrees or so. The finished crust was pretty decent, but confirmed my impressions the last time I worked with bromated flour: it's a bit like working with soft silly putty. Yeah, it's very easy to stretch out, and the dough is not very sticky at all given the hydration level, but the outer rim had no real aeration and the overall character was kind of nondescript. It could be that the extremely small amount of yeast contributed to the low aeration and bland flavor of the crust, but I'm not sure.  I doubt I'll use the bromated flour again. I don't hate the pizzas I get with it, but they're not among my best. Anyway, it was still a looker, and the sausage, roasted red peppers, onions, and cheese blend of fresh mozz, sharp provolone, havarti, oregano, and parmesan made it quite tasty.
« Last Edit: December 01, 2021, 02:37:24 PM by RHawthorne »
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Offline foreplease

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Re: Post a Pic of Your Pie - Daily Update
« Reply #19436 on: December 01, 2021, 04:14:47 PM »
Good looking pizza, Randy. Cool that you tried 0.04.
-Tony

Offline RHawthorne

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Re: Post a Pic of Your Pie - Daily Update
« Reply #19437 on: December 01, 2021, 08:09:14 PM »
Good looking pizza, Randy. Cool that you tried 0.04.
Yeah, I remember you posting one last week or whenever it was that you said you used so little yeast. I decided to give it a shot. I'm trying a poolish today, and I think I'll stick with that method and see where that goes.
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Offline Buddha

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Re: Post a Pic of Your Pie - Daily Update
« Reply #19438 on: December 01, 2021, 08:18:24 PM »
Caputo Americana with bacon

Offline Taahir

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Re: Post a Pic of Your Pie - Daily Update
« Reply #19439 on: December 02, 2021, 08:30:28 AM »
Been a while since I have visited this forum and posted anything. Attached a pic from this weekend's bake. Caputo blue, at 60%, made with 5% SD starter, CF for 60HRs in bulk, 12HR balled. FDL mozz, SM tomato, chilli salt, chilli oil, pepperoni. Slight attempt at canotta pizza. Baked for 90 seconds in a stainless steel WFO with gas assist.

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