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Author Topic: Best method to add IDY to 35-37% hydration dough?  (Read 1055 times)

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Offline PizzaGarage

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Best method to add IDY to 35-37% hydration dough?
« on: November 29, 2017, 12:57:12 AM »
Looking for some advise on the best way to mix in as much yeast as possible with a very dry dough.  Yeast is going to be .3 on a 12 hour RT followed by a 24 CF. 3% oil

Last time I added the yeast after the flour and basically got no rise at all.

Do you think adding yeast  to the water directly and stirring for 2 minutes then adding in the flour is an ok method?  Any tricks?

Essentially doing a cracker with a 12.6 flour.

Thanks

Brad

Offline Yael

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Re: Best method to add IDY to 35-37% hydration dough?
« Reply #1 on: November 29, 2017, 05:41:37 AM »
May I try a reply here ? I'm not a doctor, just a nurse  :-D

I would add yeast to some amount of the water (like 10%) and wait till it's dissolved, then you can add in the dough.
"Either you have reason, or result"

Offline HBolte

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Re: Best method to add IDY to 35-37% hydration dough?
« Reply #2 on: November 29, 2017, 07:29:30 AM »
I'm no doctor either but I always dissolve IDY in all of the water when making bread or pizza and it works every time.
Hans

Offline TXCraig1

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Re: Best method to add IDY to 35-37% hydration dough?
« Reply #3 on: November 29, 2017, 09:23:37 AM »
Last time I added the yeast after the flour and basically got no rise at all.

You may not get much rise in a 35% dough no matter how you add the yeast.
"We make great pizza, with sourdough when we can, baker's yeast when we must, but always great pizza."  
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Offline Giggliato

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Re: Best method to add IDY to 35-37% hydration dough?
« Reply #4 on: November 29, 2017, 12:03:07 PM »
Have you considered making a very yeasty poolish, then adding that to some flour and then letting it sit at room temperature for 24 hours or longer? The yeast will find it difficult to move at that low hydration.

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Offline TXCraig1

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Re: Best method to add IDY to 35-37% hydration dough?
« Reply #5 on: November 29, 2017, 12:05:18 PM »
The yeast will find it difficult to move at that low hydration.

Yeast are not motile.
"We make great pizza, with sourdough when we can, baker's yeast when we must, but always great pizza."  
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Offline QwertyJuan

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Re: Best method to add IDY to 35-37% hydration dough?
« Reply #6 on: November 29, 2017, 08:20:09 PM »
Yeast are not motile.

What?? I thought they were like the little sperms of dough making!!  :P  ;D

Offline The Dough Doctor

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Re: Best method to add IDY to 35-37% hydration dough?
« Reply #7 on: November 29, 2017, 10:47:55 PM »
I've had good luck making dry, cracker type crusts using IDY in the dough. Just suspend the IDY in about 5-times its weight of 95F water, stir well, allow to hydrate/activate for 10-minutes, stir once again and add it to the dough water. The dough will ferment but you won't see much, if any, rise due to the tightness of the dough. I've always used a sheeter/roller to open the dough ball/puck into a skin.
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Offline Giggliato

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Re: Best method to add IDY to 35-37% hydration dough?
« Reply #8 on: November 30, 2017, 12:13:11 PM »
Yeast are not motile.

That would be so sad for the little yeast to not move around the dough ball and see the sights. Maybe they move a little bit?

Offline TXCraig1

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Re: Best method to add IDY to 35-37% hydration dough?
« Reply #9 on: November 30, 2017, 12:20:17 PM »
That would be so sad for the little yeast to not move around the dough ball and see the sights. Maybe they move a little bit?

Maybe it would be sadder if they could move? Since they don't have eyes, the couldn't see the sights even if they could get to them  :-D   And, they do move - just not on their own.
"We make great pizza, with sourdough when we can, baker's yeast when we must, but always great pizza."  
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Offline PizzaGarage

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Re: Best method to add IDY to 35-37% hydration dough?
« Reply #10 on: November 30, 2017, 10:54:04 PM »
Thank you all for the input and advise.  I went with adding IDY to the water, mixed for 2 min.  Added oil and sugar, then finally the flour and salt.  I went with a 40% dough using GM Full Strength which was the absolute min hydration to form an actual ball ( we'll sort of a ball) in my mixer.  The salt did not mix in properly on top of the dry flour.  Using kosher salt and I could see the flakes in the dough.  After bulk ferment caused white spots in 1 hour which was the salt absorbing into the dough,  after a 12 hours most of that was gone.  Balled and into the fridge for 36 and will see how it turns out.  Will have to figure out a better way to get the salt in maybe mix and dissolve with a small portion of water and squirt into the mix while mixing...

Thanks for the input, appreciate it.

Brad

Offline PizzaGarage

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Re: Best method to add IDY to 35-37% hydration dough?
« Reply #11 on: November 30, 2017, 10:57:56 PM »
I've had good luck making dry, cracker type crusts using IDY in the dough. Just suspend the IDY in about 5-times its weight of 95F water, stir well, allow to hydrate/activate for 10-minutes, stir once again and add it to the dough water. The dough will ferment but you won't see much, if any, rise due to the tightness of the dough. I've always used a sheeter/roller to open the dough ball/puck into a skin.
Tom Lehmann/The Dough Doctor

Just saw this and not what I tried.  I'll try this method next time and thank you for the help.

Offline Yael

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Re: Best method to add IDY to 35-37% hydration dough?
« Reply #12 on: December 01, 2017, 07:13:09 AM »
PizzaGarage,

I didn't document myself a lot about cracker style, but I must say I don't really understand it. Why this kind of pizza ? Is there a nutritional interest in making it ? I would assume that it's not very digestible (but maybe I'm wrong, as it's very dry, there is not a lot of developed gluten, therefore more digestible ?)

Can you post some pics once you have the final product ?
Thanks  ;),
Yael
"Either you have reason, or result"

Online Pete-zza

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Re: Best method to add IDY to 35-37% hydration dough?
« Reply #13 on: December 01, 2017, 09:36:38 AM »
Brad,

Tom can correct me on this, but when I was playing around with low hydration cracker crusts, I was led to believe from something I read somewhere that using a lot of yeast for a cracker style dough could add a fair amount of additional flavor, especially for a dough that is to be fermented for a short time, and especially at room temperature.

I discussed the above matter and some of the related consequences at:

Reply 100 at https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=5762.msg50109;topicseen#msg50109, and

Reply 135 at https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=5762.msg53189#msg53189.

As can be seen from the above posts, one has to take everything into account when determining the outer limit of yeast to use since it is possible for a low hydration dough with a lot of yeast to overferment, especially with long ferment times at room temperatures.

Peter



Offline The Dough Doctor

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Re: Best method to add IDY to 35-37% hydration dough?
« Reply #14 on: December 01, 2017, 01:45:25 PM »
Peter;
You are correct in that more yeast is typically used when short fermentation times are employed (think Emergency Doughs). The reason for this is because yeast is the only variable which can be increased in the dough to provide an increase in flavor in view of a short fermentation time. While salt and sugar both impact flavor, you can only go so far before the finished crust begins tasting salty or sweet, but you can go amazingly high in the yeast level while imparting an acceptable flavor to the finished crust.
Tom Lehmann/The Dough Doctor

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Offline PizzaGarage

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Re: Best method to add IDY to 35-37% hydration dough?
« Reply #15 on: December 02, 2017, 11:28:31 AM »
Brad,

Tom can correct me on this, but when I was playing around with low hydration cracker crusts, I was led to believe from something I read somewhere that using a lot of yeast for a cracker style dough could add a fair amount of additional flavor, especially for a dough that is to be fermented for a short time, and especially at room temperature.

I discussed the above matter and some of the related consequences at:

Reply 100 at https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=5762.msg50109;topicseen#msg50109, and

Reply 135 at https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=5762.msg53189#msg53189.

As can be seen from the above posts, one has to take everything into account when determining the outer limit of yeast to use since it is possible for a low hydration dough with a lot of yeast to overferment, especially with long ferment times at room temperatures.

Peter

Thank you and very informative posts.

Offline PizzaGarage

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Re: Best method to add IDY to 35-37% hydration dough?
« Reply #16 on: December 02, 2017, 11:44:43 AM »
PizzaGarage,

I didn't document myself a lot about cracker style, but I must say I don't really understand it. Why this kind of pizza ? Is there a nutritional interest in making it ? I would assume that it's not very digestible (but maybe I'm wrong, as it's very dry, there is not a lot of developed gluten, therefore more digestible ?)

Can you post some pics once you have the final product ?
Thanks  ;),
Yael

It an older style of pizza that some of us grew up on around the Chicago area and typically for those that have not had it before love it once they try it.  The style exists more so today on the south side of Chicago and a few selected spots that have become known for their cracker crusts.  Outside of that it's not seen anymore around Chicago.  The older places that have been in business since the 60's for example might serve the style still. 

It not a nutritional purpose, just about getting a super thin crispy crust (not crackle type crusts) but crisp sort of like a potato chip, but thicker.  It's not dry tasting at all, it's not chewy and breaks up quickly while eating.  The trick is to keep the crust crisp for more than a few minutes, rather for 20-30 mins (that's what I shoot for) and crisp in the center too.  This way people can enjoy taking their time to eat it.   Here is what it looks like, this is from last night.
« Last Edit: December 02, 2017, 11:48:12 AM by PizzaGarage »

Offline Yael

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Re: Best method to add IDY to 35-37% hydration dough?
« Reply #17 on: January 05, 2018, 10:40:46 PM »
It an older style of pizza that some of us grew up on around the Chicago area and typically for those that have not had it before love it once they try it.  The style exists more so today on the south side of Chicago and a few selected spots that have become known for their cracker crusts.  Outside of that it's not seen anymore around Chicago.  The older places that have been in business since the 60's for example might serve the style still. 

It not a nutritional purpose, just about getting a super thin crispy crust (not crackle type crusts) but crisp sort of like a potato chip, but thicker.  It's not dry tasting at all, it's not chewy and breaks up quickly while eating.  The trick is to keep the crust crisp for more than a few minutes, rather for 20-30 mins (that's what I shoot for) and crisp in the center too.  This way people can enjoy taking their time to eat it.   Here is what it looks like, this is from last night.

Ok thanks a lot for your explanations. I actually tried this kind of pies before, in France, in a touristic place. They were using pre-baked crusts bought from Metro or somewhere else already topped with tomato sauce, let's say it wasn't made by "real" pizza makers/lovers. But you know what ? I used to like it  ;D
The thing i remember the most was the toasted emmental cheese (I don't know if you read my other posts, I often say that in France we mostly use emmental on pizza). If you can, try the emmental, and tell me what you think about it !  ::)
"Either you have reason, or result"

Offline The Dough Doctor

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Re: Best method to add IDY to 35-37% hydration dough?
« Reply #18 on: January 09, 2018, 02:25:03 AM »
Being a "south sider" I grew up on Ed and Joe's pizza (still in business today) in Tinley Park (175th street/south). Another good place to see this type of pizza is at one of the Beggar's Pizzerias (the one we used to go to was located at about 150 south on Cicero Avenue in Oak Forest.)
Tom Lehmann/The Dough Doctor

Offline PizzaGarage

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Re: Best method to add IDY to 35-37% hydration dough?
« Reply #19 on: January 18, 2018, 09:39:11 PM »
I'll have to try Ed and Joes, a blast going to those old school places.   I see beggars signs everywhere and always wanted try try them out...

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