Pizza Making Forum

Pizza Making => Neapolitan Style => Topic started by: Don Luigi on January 25, 2015, 01:29:56 PM

Title: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Don Luigi on January 25, 2015, 01:29:56 PM
Last week I got my Pizza Party Oven from Tuscany/Italy. Thanks Simone Banchi for the quick delivery and great communication! After "burning it in" during the week  I finally put the oven through its paces yesterday. Conditions were pretty harsh - grim winter day in Germany with snow and frosty temperatures and a couple of my best friends around so I wasn't exactly sober when I baked the first pie. Prepared them inside and then going outside to the oven  for the bake. Not ideal when it comes to fire managment (which is key with this oven) but the oven performed flawlessly nonetheless and I am very satisfied considering this was my first bake with the oven. Most of the pies were baked in 60-70 seconds- some could have stayed a couple seconds more under the dome. I think the bottom of the pies was really good and generally taste was great (wood fire adds a certain something - it's not smoky but a taste that is more rustique and fresh at the same time for sure) and better than in my pyrolysis oven setup that I used before. Also freshness of the toppings was really great - though it's almost impossible to get good basil at this time of the year in Germany.
I really look forward to exploring the oven more and there will be more "baking adventures" soon!
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: TXCraig1 on January 25, 2015, 01:40:54 PM
Nice.
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: JD on January 25, 2015, 01:59:51 PM
Nice job Don, glad to see your first fire was a success.
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Roman on January 25, 2015, 03:01:17 PM
Don,
Nice start!
We're going to rely on you to set the pace with this oven.  I believe there are many of us that have noses pressed up against the glass on this one. Try not to let the fire go out for too long.
Thanks.

Roman
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party Wood fired oven
Post by: Simone on January 25, 2015, 05:19:52 PM
First Fire First Excellent Pizza!!
Congratulations Markus  :drool: :drool: :drool:
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Don Luigi on January 26, 2015, 07:37:01 AM
Thanks everyone for the comments! I forgot to show this one in my original post. Sourdough San Francisco Starter (still waiting for my Ischia Starter) - as you can see it was clearly under-fermented. Almost no oven spring - I don't know why, I think I fermented it a little to cold (57°F) and SD seems to be way more picky about temperature and fermentation than Baker Yeast. I will do more pies with sourdough next time. My bread was awesome with the sourdough - fermented at 70°F.
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: JD on January 26, 2015, 08:22:55 AM
My bread was awesome with the sourdough - fermented at 70°F.

Did you make the bread in the pizza party oven? That's something I'm still working on.
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Don Luigi on January 26, 2015, 08:39:44 AM
No, I made it in my home oven a day before...I was too busy making pizza and drinking with my friends on Saturday. But next time I am making pizza I want to time it to make bread when the oven's cooling down...
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: SAUZER.ITALY on January 26, 2015, 09:21:29 AM
 ^^^Bravo Don Luigi ! very nice margherita  :pizza: :pizza:
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Don Luigi on January 26, 2015, 10:43:01 AM
Thanks Renato!
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Bensch on January 26, 2015, 11:00:47 AM
That looks fantastic.

Kurze Frage: Was kostet so ein Teil aus Italien. Ich komme aus Mittelhessen :chef:
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Don Luigi on January 26, 2015, 11:12:18 AM
Hi Bensch,

sent you a PM!

P.S.: Ich komme aus der Rhön/Unterfranken. Nicht so weit weg von Dir... :)
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: aspendos on January 26, 2015, 11:56:41 AM
Pizza looks nice.  Which flour did you use?

Is that licence plate from bad neustadt?  ;D
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Don Luigi on January 26, 2015, 12:38:32 PM
Thanks Aspendos - yeah, Bad Neustadt Region - you know it?
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: aspendos on January 26, 2015, 12:43:27 PM
Yes i know. I was in music park in bad neustadt. You still didnt say which flour you used  ;D
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Don Luigi on January 26, 2015, 12:45:45 PM
Oh sorry, Caputo Pizzeria...
Which region are you from?
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: aspendos on January 26, 2015, 12:48:37 PM
Meiningen Thüringen.  Caputo pizzeria 25kg? How much did you pay?
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Don Luigi on January 26, 2015, 12:55:52 PM
Meiningen - wow, the world's a village. Just around the corner. I paid 40 Euros for the 25kg bag.
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: aspendos on January 26, 2015, 01:04:34 PM
Yes i never thought someone here could live that close to me  ;D Next time let me know if you need caputo flour. I can get 25 kg for 20euros
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Don Luigi on January 26, 2015, 01:13:02 PM
For real? I'll let you know for sure...thanks for the offer!
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: wolver on January 26, 2015, 01:56:33 PM
Excellent pies Don  :drool: :drool:
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Don Luigi on January 28, 2015, 01:55:09 PM
Skill comes with practice they say - so, another day, another Pizza. Getting the hang with sourdough (San Francisco Culture - Ischia still in the mail) and starting to love my Pizza Party Oven. Seriously if you let it heat up properly and have a good fire managment and good, dry wood it heats like a rocket! Some of these pies were sub 60 Seconds - in the 45-50 Second range and easily the best I did so far. See for yourself, my friends!

P.S.: Need to get my photography skills up to par!



Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: JD on January 28, 2015, 02:01:41 PM
You killed it Don. What size wood did you use before launch to get a good fire going?
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: TXCraig1 on January 28, 2015, 03:16:46 PM
If those pies taste half as good as they look, you hit it out of the park.
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: wolver on January 28, 2015, 04:27:34 PM
Don! This is art!  :drool: :drool: :chef: :chef:
(today i used my Pizza Party.. pizza and bread  :P)
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: SAUZER.ITALY on January 29, 2015, 02:11:21 AM
Don Luigi  :pizza: :pizza:bella bella bella !!  :chef:
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Don Luigi on January 29, 2015, 03:42:24 AM
You killed it Don. What size wood did you use before launch to get a good fire going?

Thanks alot JD, yeah, very satisfied with the outcome this time!
Firing the Oven: I use two sizes of wood - see the photo. This is bone-dry Beech Wood which I also use to heat my living room with a wood stove. The bigger one is approximately my forearm size (big male forearm). The bigger junks I use to get a good fire going - so I put them on in the beginning and when I put the fire to the side. The smaller pieces I use in between bakes to get the temp up more quickly. I put the fire as much in the back and the side of the oven as I can. The position of the door is really crucial I think. I shoved in the Pizza when the Oven Thermometer showed between 400-450°C. The floor is in the 500°C range then.
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Don Luigi on January 29, 2015, 03:45:01 AM
If those pies taste half as good as they look, you hit it out of the park.

Thanks alot Craig!!! ;D ;D ;D
Taste was really good on these. Sourdough and wood fire is something else. Much more complex in taste than the yeast ones from an electric oven (which are great too).
These were also the highest hydration I ever did: 65% with Caputo Pizzeria.
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Don Luigi on January 29, 2015, 03:46:25 AM
Don! This is art!  :drool: :drool: :chef: :chef:
(today i used my Pizza Party.. pizza and bread  :P)

Thank you wolver! I made some bread as well when the oven cooled down to approx 200°C. The floor was still hotter so the underside became a little to charred but it's great!
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Don Luigi on January 29, 2015, 03:47:28 AM
Don Luigi  :pizza: :pizza:bella bella bella !!  :chef:

Thanks Renato!
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Don Luigi on January 29, 2015, 03:48:41 AM
BTW - I have some leftovers - what's the best way to re-heat them? I mean I love cold pizza as well but I'd like to reheat them for lunch. How do you guys do it?

Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with wood fired oven Pizza Party
Post by: Simone on January 29, 2015, 04:09:52 AM
beautiful pizzas Markus
 :drool: :drool:
Title: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party Wood fired oven
Post by: Simone on January 29, 2015, 05:18:30 AM
info how to choose the firewood:
http://www.wood-fired-pizza-oven.us/how-to-choose-the-firewood/ (http://www.wood-fired-pizza-oven.us/how-to-choose-the-firewood/)
http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=32167.msg318431#msg318431 (http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=32167.msg318431#msg318431)
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: JD on January 29, 2015, 07:22:59 AM
Thanks alot JD, yeah, very satisfied with the outcome this time!
Firing the Oven: I use two sizes of wood - see the photo. This is bone-dry Beech Wood which I also use to heat my living room with a wood stove. The bigger one is approximately my forearm size (big male forearm). The bigger junks I use to get a good fire going - so I put them on in the beginning and when I put the fire to the side. The smaller pieces I use in between bakes to get the temp up more quickly. I put the fire as much in the back and the side of the oven as I can. The position of the door is really crucial I think. I shoved in the Pizza when the Oven Thermometer showed between 400-450°C. The floor is in the 500°C range then.

Thanks for the info Don. I've only put the fire on the side not the back too, I'll try that next.  Are you using your heat deflector for the bake?

I'm getting my Caputo by Saturday so hopefully a Sunday bake is in the works for me.
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Don Luigi on January 29, 2015, 07:39:32 AM
I used the deflector and that metal-cross-thingy that helps to bring more air under the flame - check the picture for placement of the fire. And, I found that much as with a bigger wfo - it helps tremendously to saturate the oven with heat - have it in the 400°C region for like 20-30 Minutes before you shove in the first pie. It works sooner as well, but like this the temperature remains much more stable...
Really eager to see your results with Caputo! I used 65% Hydration this time and it was easier to handle in its final stage than I thought. 26 Hours Sourdough roomtemp ferment with a little less than 4% Starter.

Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: JD on January 29, 2015, 08:13:08 AM
I used the deflector and that metal-cross-thingy that helps to bring more air under the flame - check the picture for placement of the fire. And, I found that much as with a bigger wfo - it helps tremendously to saturate the oven with heat - have it in the 400°C region for like 20-30 Minutes before you shove in the first pie. It works sooner as well, but like this the temperature remains much more stable...
Really eager to see your results with Caputo! I used 65% Hydration this time and it was easier to handle in its final stage than I thought. 26 Hours Sourdough roomtemp ferment with a little less than 4% Starter.

Oh okay, so you don't put the fire across the back, you just put it as far back as possible on the side. That's exactly what I've been doing.

I agree with you on the saturation comment. Technically I'm up to temp in 30-40 minutes, but I usually go over-temp and let it come down to what I want. My typical heat-up time is an hour minimum.

I'm not ready for 65% yet, but maybe it's different with Caputo than KAAP? 
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Roman on January 29, 2015, 08:15:27 AM
Don,

Nice work! Your pizzas show you've dialed in the capabilities of the oven.  When you build your fire for daily use, do you begin by starting within the center of the bed and then push it to the backside? Are you finding any limitations with the oven other than the number of pizzas you are able to cook at one time? So ready to pull the trigger on it, you may soon push me over the edge.

Thanks,

Roman

Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Ben Holiday on January 29, 2015, 09:38:22 AM
This is crazy Aspendos, Im from Meiningen and im living in Untermaßfeld ;)
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: schold on January 29, 2015, 12:14:49 PM
BTW - I have some leftovers - what's the best way to re-heat them? I mean I love cold pizza as well but I'd like to reheat them for lunch. How do you guys do it?

Cook to order. Always. Even the few seconds needed to take a picture stresses me. When it's old, I say throw it in the bin. I don't like throwing food away, so therefore I only cook what will be eaten. Cook to order.
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Don Luigi on January 29, 2015, 12:17:25 PM
Yeah, but with two kids you never know what happens and nothing worse than having not enough. In the end I brushed the rim with a little water and warmed them in the oven. Was real good!
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Don Luigi on January 29, 2015, 01:23:12 PM

Don,

Nice work! Your pizzas show you've dialed in the capabilities of the oven.  When you build your fire for daily use, do you begin by starting within the center of the bed and then push it to the backside? Are you finding any limitations with the oven other than the number of pizzas you are able to cook at one time? So ready to pull the trigger on it, you may soon push me over the edge.

Thanks,

Roman

Yeah, I start with Fire in the middle. Let it burn for approximately 30 minutes and then push it to the left side. Let it burn for another 30-45 Minutes until I have a stable 400C-450C adding in bigger and smaller pieces of wood. No limitations with the oven for me, really. You could cook two Pizza at once but I never tried - could get a little to cozy space-wise in the relatively small chamber. For 1 Pizza at a time (and with 50 seconds cook time who cares?)it's perfect.
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: wolver on January 29, 2015, 04:28:33 PM
BTW - I have some leftovers - what's the best way to re-heat them? I mean I love cold pizza as well but I'd like to reheat them for lunch. How do you guys do it?

I put in small electric oven or freeze to future fast meal
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Roman on January 30, 2015, 06:29:40 AM
Try this for your leftovers as it seems to work for any pizza style. The least forgiving taste is the base of the crust. Take a cookie sheet placed on the lowest rack in conventional oven and heat to 400 F until oven is stable, remove sheet and quickly place leftovers and return to middle rack and lower to 350F. The moisture will quickly sear off the bottom crust then watch for proper cheese melt. The most efficient way to reheat given leftover pizza its due.
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Don Luigi on January 30, 2015, 07:32:37 AM
Thanks for the tips!
More Pizza to come soon...:-) new wood supply...
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: JD on January 30, 2015, 08:13:15 AM
Thanks for the tips!
More Pizza to come soon...:-) new wood supply...

Wow! Talk about priorities!
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Don Luigi on January 30, 2015, 08:33:47 AM
Hehe... 8) I am also heating my living room (wood stove) with this but I don't have even a shadow of a doubt that a fair share of this will be cremated in the Pizza Oven!
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Simone on January 30, 2015, 08:41:09 AM
Markus! you have serious intentions  ;D
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Don Luigi on February 03, 2015, 01:12:03 PM
New Pizza today. Same formular as last time. About 65% Hydration (I prepared for 65% but didn't use all the flour), 3.5% Starter (San Francisco Sourdough), 12 Hours in Bulk, 14 in Balls, 3% Salt. Satisfied. Had a little bit the same problem as JD last batch with slightly overheated oven and domed pretty much all the pies after 40 seconds. But these were damn tasty. I went for a little bit of a different look with the cheese. More Da Michele less "Cheese-Ghosts". I like this look as well! Let me know your opinion, please.


Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: SAUZER.ITALY on February 03, 2015, 01:23:41 PM
very nice pizza,  :pizza: :pizza: it seems to me that the board is not very high, this forum
do not use much make the photo section of the border that is only indicator
leavening. compliments for cooking. :D
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: JD on February 03, 2015, 01:35:55 PM
New Pizza today. Same formular as last time. About 65% Hydration (I prepared for 65% but didn't use all the flour), 3.5% Starter (San Francisco Sourdough), 12 Hours in Bulk, 14 in Balls, 3% Salt. Satisfied. Had a little bit the same problem as JD last batch with slightly overheated oven and domed pretty much all the pies after 40 seconds. But these were damn tasty. I went for a little bit of a different look with the cheese. More Da Michele less "Cheese-Ghosts". I like this look as well! Let me know your opinion, please.

Your pizza is beautiful Don, you managed the heat much better than I did! Can you share the temperatures you were dealing with?

It's funny you mention the cheese-ghosts, my first pizza had that problem and I viewed a Da Michele video to see how thick their cheese was, and I was shocked at how small & how much they use. I definitely prefer the small pieces, your melt is perfect.
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: schold on February 03, 2015, 02:43:22 PM
very nice pizza,  :pizza: :pizza: it seems to me that the board is not very high, this forum
do not use much make the photo section of the border that is only indicator
leavening. compliments for cooking. :D

Do you mean the height of the cornicione?
Title: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Don Luigi on February 04, 2015, 01:48:50 AM
very nice pizza,  :pizza: :pizza: it seems to me that the board is not very high, this forum
do not use much make the photo section of the border that is only indicator
leavening. compliments for cooking. :D

Thanks Renato and you are right: dough was a little under-fermented. I think the starter was already passed its full activity when I made the dough. But there was air and life inside and it felt light when I prepared the pizza, in contrary to the "heavy as brick" feel of a really under-leavened dough ball. Taste was light and airy as well. Oven Spring was less than on my last batch but since I wanted to try a sort of Da Michele Look on the Marghs it was fine!
Title: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Don Luigi on February 04, 2015, 02:00:48 AM
Your pizza is beautiful Don, you managed the heat much better than I did! Can you share the temperatures you were dealing with?

It's funny you mention the cheese-ghosts, my first pizza had that problem and I viewed a Da Michele video to see how thick their cheese was, and I was shocked at how small & how much they use. I definitely prefer the small pieces, your melt is perfect.

Thank you JD! I didn't make detailed measures and went with the oven thermometer but I think the floor in the back right corner (were I bake) was +/- 500C and sometimes hotter. Too hot I think and hard to control. I think next time when I heat up the oven I will make a smaller fire in the middle (before putting the fire to the side) with less wood and a slower heating up. I had a real inferno going this time. I went for 420C on the oven-thermometer when shoving in the Pizza.

"Cheese Ghosts" - I love them usually, really. Of course there must be a melt going but I love the look of the little ghosts. You said "you had the problem" - do you view them as a mistake?
But I love the Da Michele Cheese look as well and I am very satisfied with how it turned out on my pies....
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: SAUZER.ITALY on February 04, 2015, 02:02:39 AM
Do you mean the height of the cornicione?

Yes ,  :D
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: SAUZER.ITALY on February 04, 2015, 02:05:41 AM
Thanks Renato and you are right: dough was a little under-fermented. I think the starter was already passed its full activity when I made the dough. But there was air and life inside and it felt light when I prepared the pizza, in contrary to the "heavy as brick" feel of a really under-leavened dough ball. Taste was light and airy as well. Oven Spring was less than on my last batch but since I wanted to try a sort of Da Michele Look on the Marghs it was fine!

Unfortunately it happens often, me too many times using the same amount of yeast, the same internal temperature, the results can still change.
I can say with certainty that much difference in the end product comes from how
is kneaded, how you stringers.  :chef:
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: JD on February 04, 2015, 07:59:55 AM
"Cheese Ghosts" - I love them usually, really. Of course there must be a melt going but I love the look of the little ghosts. You said "you had the problem" - do you view them as a mistake?
But I love the Da Michele Cheese look as well and I am very satisfied with how it turned out on my pies....

I don't think "mistake" is the correct word, I just prefer the texture of fully melted cheese over partially melted. I cannot tell you what your preferences should be!

Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Don Luigi on February 04, 2015, 08:02:09 AM
Of course...mistake was the wrong word. I should have asked about preference. Language barrier.
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: JD on February 04, 2015, 08:09:57 AM
Language barrier.

If you didn't have your location under your name, I'd have thought you lived in the US. I don't think you used the wrong word Don.

Anyhow, the Da Michele cheese melt in this picture is beautiful to me: http://www.timeout.jp/data/files/00/00/00/01/16/97/8893a63b28934ed8eeeda6f35eb500f1c35e7d5f_tn482x298.jpeg

That's my preference  :D
Title: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Don Luigi on February 04, 2015, 08:44:11 AM
Ahh, I see. That's too much melt when it comes to my preference :-)
Talking about Da Michele. These pies are pretty much my thing (besides that they feature too much cheese):
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: JD on February 04, 2015, 09:12:56 AM
Ahh, I see. That's too much melt when it comes to my preference :-)
Talking about Da Michele. These pies are pretty much my thing (besides that they feature too much cheese):

That looks good to me as well. I don't think it's too much cheese, but I am an American  :-D
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: schold on February 04, 2015, 11:07:41 AM
Unfortunately it happens often, me too many times using the same amount of yeast, the same internal temperature, the results can still change.
I can say with certainty that much difference in the end product comes from how
is kneaded, how you stringers.  :chef:

The same goes for me... With my new, supercool Ebay-bought drug dealer scale (which I learned about from sub), I believe my dough making process has become better controlled and more consistent. Recently, however, I did make a few doughs which didn't exhibit much oven spring and which were overly elastic and sticky. My working theory is that this was the result of poor gluten formation, and as I don't own a KitchenAid or similar machine, I have started experimenting with autolysis.

Now I mix the tipo 00-flour with all the water (rt) and let it stand for 1.5 hours before placing the dough in the refrigerator for another hour. I then take it back out and add dry yeast, salt and the remaining flour (a strong Norwegian spring wheat flour which is also malted) and mix well.  Then a couple of times back into the fridge, relax, knead and back in, until the dough is nice and smooth. I think I get very good gluten formation, a dough which appears to retain gas well, the cornicione puffs up nicely and the texture is good.

In light of all this - when I looked at Don Luigi's somewhat flat cornicione, I immediately thought that it might be due to poor gluten formation.

Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Don Luigi on February 04, 2015, 12:22:47 PM
I don't see the slightly flatter rim as a problem - see Da Michele i.e.It was still airy enough and not flat and lifeless as the under-fermented pie I posted on the first page. My old setup with not so heat-intensive oven (g3 Ferrari Clone) and baker's yeast always produced rims that were too puffy for my preference and visually not so beautiful.
I am doing 3-4 stretch and fold sessions with 15 Minutes rest in between and my dough is really smooth.
I am just relatively new to the sourdough starter thing (this was my 3rd or 4th batch with SD) and need to get more consistent with it, but the taste of these sourdough pies is just worth the extra learning curve.
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: corkd on February 05, 2015, 08:06:18 AM
BTW - I have some leftovers - what's the best way to re-heat them? I mean I love cold pizza as well but I'd like to reheat them for lunch. How do you guys do it?
I heat my leftover caputo slices in a dry nonstick pan on the stovetop. Those are fantastic looking pies. I'm really impressed with what you and others are doing with the PP oven.
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Don Luigi on February 06, 2015, 07:49:27 AM
Thanks for the tip and the nice words, corkd!
Title: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Don Luigi on February 10, 2015, 02:10:38 PM
New Pies today! These were sourdough 48 hour fermentation. Caputo Pizeria, 62.5% Hydration/2.7% Salt/2.5% SF Starter. Craig's formular more or less. A little bit more starter and San Francisco culture instead of Ischia. This time I got the starter in its prime and fermentation was pretty much perfect. I had to put the dough balls into the cellar this morning at roughly 54°F because they were already quite well risen -  so next time I am doing Craig's formular with 1.7% - 2% Starter at 65°F.
But these were surely my best tasting, softest and lightest pies so far. The Mushroom/Mozzarella di Buffalo with italian truffle oil was out of this world.  Soft like a cloud, creamy, melting in your mouth - I was really happy eating it. This was also the only pie that baked in less than 60 seconds today. I really look forward to warmer days, when I can have an eye on the oven while preparing the pizza instead of running in/out (preparing in the house, baking outside) all the time hoping when I get out to the oven I have all parameters "dialed in" correctly. But it's so much fun baking with fire and sour dough. I am loving it!
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: JD on February 10, 2015, 02:20:09 PM
Beautiful Don, you have this oven figured out. I took a step backward this weekend  >:( 

What was your dough weight/diameter? Is there any possibility of you shooting a video in the future?
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: aspendos on February 10, 2015, 03:02:36 PM
Very nice Don. Which temperature did you bake?
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: schold on February 10, 2015, 04:56:03 PM
Lookin' sweet, Don, but where is the one with onions and bell peppers?
Title: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Don Luigi on February 11, 2015, 02:07:53 AM
Beautiful Don, you have this oven figured out. I took a step backward this weekend  >:( 

What was your dough weight/diameter? Is there any possibility of you shooting a video in the future?

Thanks JD! Doughballs were 230-250 gr. diameter ranging from approximately 28cm to 32cm (the second Margherita was the biggest Pizza of the evening). Really like 250gr.
Yeah, I will do a video as soon as the wheather's better here in Germany. 1 Month ahead maybe.
Yesterday I noticed again: The best pies for me come out of the oven with the front thermometer at just a hint above 400C and huge rolling flames that hover across the dome inside the oven. Then baking on the stone in the back right corner for about 45 seconds (maybe one turn involved) and then lift the pie for doming another 5-10 seconds.
What happened JD, why you made a step back?
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Don Luigi on February 11, 2015, 02:11:20 AM

Very nice Don. Which temperature did you bake?

Thanks aspendos! I baked them at about 480-500C on the stone. The Marinara was less - maybe 450. Air Temperature in the oven is hard to say. Depends on how much flame I got going on. But the oven bakes beautiful pies with the deck at 480 and the right amount of flames rolling across its top.
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Don Luigi on February 11, 2015, 02:21:16 AM

Lookin' sweet, Don, but where is the one with onions and bell peppers?

Thanks Schold! I actually tried the onion/bellpepper Pie yesterday in a slight variation. I added some super fine cubes of italian salami (not much) and some chili oil post bake. I loved it!! Unfortunately I had some problems during launching the pie and so it was kind of the ugly duckling of the evening. But the topping (with or without the variation) is really good. The slight sourness of the bellpepper goes very well with the sweetness of the onions. Adding the umami of the salami and the heat of the chili oil rounds it off nicely too! I guess it will become a regular!
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: JD on February 11, 2015, 12:17:59 PM
Thanks JD! Doughballs were 230-250 gr. diameter ranging from approximately 28cm to 32cm (the second Margherita was the biggest Pizza of the evening). Really like 250gr.
Yeah, I will do a video as soon as the wheather's better here in Germany. 1 Month ahead maybe.
Yesterday I noticed again: The best pies for me come out of the oven with the front thermometer at just a hint above 400C and huge rolling flames that hover across the dome inside the oven. Then baking on the stone in the back right corner for about 45 seconds (maybe one turn involved) and then lift the pie for doming another 5-10 seconds.
What happened JD, why you made a step back?

I had to take a long phone call while it was heating up so I over-heated it again. I'm pulling pies off the deck at 45s and it's still too burnt, but deck temps were low to mid 900's (480C+). When I add wood to get the rolling flames like you say, it just continues heating so I may be mid 900's by the time I launch.

Also, I used 60.5% hydration and it wasn't as tender as the 63% from last week. I'm going to bump it to 61.5% next time, and try to keep the deck temp down.

One thing I did learn was keeping the door off for the entire bake actually helped keep a nice rolling flame across the ceiling. I don't think it's necessary to keep the door on for bake, what do you think? I also made one side of my pizza turning peel round instead of square with rounded edge, which helped a lot with turning the pizza.
Title: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Don Luigi on February 11, 2015, 12:48:24 PM
Ahh, I see. The Oven surely needs a workflow and attention - no phone calls allowed :-)!
I think lowering the time you make the fire in the center of the oven might help (i need to try this too - i had to be super attentive not to burn the bottoms) and baking closer to the door (depending on position this can make 50C difference) - with the door on. I never tried with the door off but I found a position of the door which gives a great air flow and a raging fire. I have the fire on the left side - on this side the door is fully closed, on the opposite of the fire (right side) I leave a small gap of maybe 1-2cm. You will find the right position by watching the flames. The door sits in slightly aslant.
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: JD on February 11, 2015, 01:13:04 PM
Ahh, I see. The Oven surely needs a workflow and attention - no phone calls allowed :-)!
I think lowering the time you make the fire in the center of the oven might help (i need to try this too - i had to be super attentive not to burn the bottoms) and baking closer to the door (depending on position this can make 50C difference) - with the door on. I never tried with the door off but I found a position of the door which gives a great air flow and a raging fire. I have the fire on the left side - on this side the door is fully closed, on the opposite of the fire (right side) I leave a small gap of maybe 1-2cm. You will find the right position by watching the flames. The door sits in slightly aslant.

You and I think very similar, I used to do this exact thing. Since I was working with too high temps recently, I didn't have time to put the door on and off and I ended up preferring keeping the door off compeltely.

That's a good suggestion about lowering the time of having the fire in the center, I do keep it there for at least 30-40 minutes. Thanks for the tip. I've been putting my fire on the right side recently. It may be an illusion but it feels like I have way more room to work with, and it seems ergonomically correct since I'm right handed.  I wonder if there is a preference with other WFO users?
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Sirius on February 11, 2015, 03:55:59 PM
I can't tell you about the PIZZA PARTY, havent got mine yet. But the gross of ovens I saw had the fire on the left side.
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: wolver on February 11, 2015, 04:35:30 PM
beautiful pizza Don!!! :drool: :drool:
JD and DON make a video: dough and your use, it maybe useful to me to learn from you or JD, you are excellet pizzamaker :chef:
(Recently i'm trying many bread)
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: JD on February 11, 2015, 05:51:14 PM
beautiful pizza Don!!! :drool: :drool:
JD and DON make a video: dough and your use, it maybe useful to me to learn from you or JD, you are excellet pizzamaker :chef:
(Recently i'm trying many bread)

Thanks, but I have way more work to do before I even think about making a video.
Title: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Don Luigi on February 12, 2015, 01:47:45 AM
Hey JD,  you're very modest but it was your pizza (amongst a few other things) that made me want that oven!
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Simone on February 14, 2015, 11:48:05 AM
Excellent pizzas Markus! :chef:
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: SAUZER.ITALY on February 15, 2015, 03:20:34 AM
Very nice pizza Don Luigi  :chef: i like all !!!  ^^^
Title: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Don Luigi on February 18, 2015, 03:06:01 PM
Weekly Pizza Update!
Not so satisfied today. Neither dough nor fire managment were optimal. My last pies were definitely better. Got some burned bottoms too - argghh. Is it possible my deck becomes more conductive with time? Simone you read this? I measured 538°C on the deck today right before launch  - too much. Too long pre-heat I guess. So I needed to let the oven cool down again.
Also I went with 2% Starter, 48 Hour, 65°F (Build a proofing box!) and 63% Hydration Formula but I am pretty sure the dough was too wet. Very hard to handle. It rose almost only by flattening out which resulted in poor oven spring. The Bubble structure on the bottom looked kinda pefect but I am pretty sure I measured the water content wrong and the dough was in reality something like 68-70% Hyrdation. It felt super wet, very hard to handle. >:( Also, since Ed Wood/Sourdo had some problems shipping my Ischia Culture (I had to re-order and hope it will finally arrive soon) I am still using the San Francisco starter and I really think it lacks a little bit of oven spring/rise when I use it with less than about 4%. Also the taste was borderline tangy today. A little too much to be honest.
Anyhow, to make things worse, I thought it was a cool idea to make a couple of photos with this hipster camera app for the iphone...well, I had better ideas already, I must say. But I blame it today on a really stressful day. Wife and two kids are ill and I didn't have my mind set totally on Pizza today - which is what it needs. Full attention to detail...
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: JD on February 18, 2015, 03:21:37 PM
I'd be happy with those Don. Sounds like your dough may have been over-proofed by your explanation (tangy & feeling wetter than usual).
Title: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Don Luigi on February 19, 2015, 05:13:23 AM
JD I'd agree that the dough was over-proofed if I wasn't so damn sure that it was not. Look at the bubbles in the first pic...I always go by the look of the bubbles a la Craig and I am pretty sure I was still in the "green zone". Those pies were surely eatable - just not another step forward...
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: SAUZER.ITALY on February 19, 2015, 06:13:33 AM
Hi Don !! do not worry, occasionally have some small problems with the dough and oven are part of the game ..  8)
Surely overheat an oven door to an excess of heat in the stalls risk of burning the bottom of the pizza.
For the rest, the hydration with too high a cooking too fast does not lead to benefits as it does not have the time necessary to eliminate the water inside the pizza.
Your result has been good  :chef:
Title: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Don Luigi on February 20, 2015, 04:47:04 AM
At last! It's already in activation process....
Excuse the dirty finger nail
Title: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Don Luigi on February 23, 2015, 05:09:08 PM
Bubbling its way to the stars...
My ischia culture is fully active since today and my first ischia dough in the making for tomorrow.
62, 2.7, 4.0S [email protected]
Really eager for the bake tomorrow...I can already say now that the ischia has at least double the rising power of my SF sourdough starter...
BTW I am planning on keeping this culture for the weekly bake on the counter instead of in the fridge. Do you guys who keep their culture on the counter at room temp have the container air tight sealed  (have the rubber band around the lid, or screwed the lid on tightly) or do you have the lid just loosely on the container? Does it matter?
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Don Luigi on February 24, 2015, 02:04:11 PM
First Ischia Bake! Positive and negative things.

Let's start with the negative:  I had the same problem as on my last bake with dough-balls flattening out like crazy and a 62% Hydration dough feeling like 70%. No rise to the top at all - only flattening, ultra wet dough that is super hard top handle. Caputo Pizzeria Flour. I am starting to think I am storing the flour in a wrong way. I am storing in 3 Liter Plastic Zip Lock Bags filled with ca. 1.5KG of flour. Any ideas anyone? It's driving me crazy! It was so bad today I had to-re-ball one dough ball which resulted in a much more heavy handed not as soft and light Pizza. It was eatable though to my suprise and I could practive more the baking the oven.
Also slightly negative: I didn't catch the Ischia culture in its absolute prime. I think I was a little to0 early using it for baking (but I couldn't wait :angel:) and think it is today, after two feedings more, finally fully active! Next bake will show!

Positive: The first Margherita today was probably my best ever. Light-spirited, creamy, tender. I know why the Ischia Culture is so highly regarded. Not tangy at all but with a creaminess and complexity - wow!

I tried a topping variation I really liked. Mushrooms, Red Onions, Ricotta, Mozzarella Di Bufala, german "Schinkenspeck" (cut into very fine pieces), fresh Black Pepper and Pecorino Romana. It was delicious. Like a french/german "Flammkuchen" but lighter, finer and less heavy handed in taste.

I think I know really how to handle the baking in the oven now. Not too long pre-heating. For me it was 35-40 Minutes pre-heating on the first margherita and the bottom at around 460-480°C - maybe less. But I had a huge, hovering fire for the top heat. Bake was really balanced on this one. Around 60 seconds, short doming.

Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: TXCraig1 on February 24, 2015, 02:12:59 PM
Another thread with some great looking pies I've somehow missed. Nicely done.

Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: JD on February 24, 2015, 02:24:23 PM
First Ischia Bake! Positive and negative things.

Let's start with the negative:  I had the same problem as on my last bake with dough-balls flattening out like crazy and a 62% Hydration dough feeling like 70%. No rise to the top at all - only flattening, ultra wet dough that is super hard top handle. Caputo Pizzeria Flour. I am starting to think I am storing the flour in a wrong way. I am storing in 3 Liter Plastic Zip Lock Bags filled with ca. 1.5KG of flour. Any ideas anyone? It's driving me crazy! It was so bad today I had to-re-ball one dough ball which resulted in a much more heavy handed not as soft and light Pizza. It was eatable though to my suprise and I could practive more the baking the oven.
Also slightly negative: I didn't catch the Ischia culture in its absolute prime. I think I was a little to0 early using it for baking (but I couldn't wait :angel:) and think it is today, after two feedings more, finally fully active! Next bake will show!

Positive: The first Margherita today was probably my best ever. Light-spirited, creamy, tender. I know why the Ischia Culture is so highly regarded. Not tangy at all but with a creaminess and complexity - wow!

I tried a topping variation I really liked. Mushrooms, Red Onions, Ricotta, Mozzarella Di Bufala, german "Schinkenspeck" (cut into very fine pieces), fresh Black Pepper and Pecorino Romana. It was delicious. Like a french/german "Flammkuchen" but lighter, finer and less heavy handed in taste.

I think I know really how to handle the baking in the oven now. Not too long pre-heating. For me it was 35-40 Minutes pre-heating on the first margherita and the bottom at around 460-480°C - maybe less. But I had a huge, hovering fire for the top heat. Bake was really balanced on this one. Around 60 seconds, short doming.


Don, that first margarita is gorgeous! Way to set the bar nice and high.

The inevitable post-bake questions:
1) Do you use the fire shield?
2) Where do you measure the floor temp (Front/middle/back)

Regarding your wet dough, I'm not sure I would draw any conclusions until you know you had proper fermentation. Was it another 48hr ferment? Do you bulk/ball or only ball?
Title: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Don Luigi on February 24, 2015, 03:25:50 PM
Thanks Craig!
JD, thanks alot, man! That margherita surely was my best Pie up until now!
1) Yeah, used the fire shield but didn't use the fire grate thing. I think I like it better without!
2) I measured 425C in the middle of the oven (so it was a bit more in the back) put another fore arm sized piece of wood on, went inside, prepared the pie. When I came back to the oven I didn't measure again, but I had a huge fire rolling across the dome. I think it was the perfect balance of top and bottom heat on that bake...
I bulk and ball ferment. Half and half approximately. This was 24 hours, 4% Starter (maybe not fully active yet). Again dough seemed rather under -proofed than over -proofed. It was incredible wet!
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: gsans on February 24, 2015, 04:19:46 PM
Another beautiful pies here ;) Great job Don !
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: JD on February 24, 2015, 04:35:43 PM
Have you ever tried without the shield? I've done both and I'm not sure which way I like better yet. I get more immediate blistering without the shield but I also tend to get too much color on my cornice.  How long did that forearm sized log keep a large fire? This is what I was hoping to achieve with a "medium" sized log in my previous post.

There are a hundred reasons why your dough may feel wet, and I'm sure you know them all already. What calculator are you using?
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Don Luigi on February 25, 2015, 01:58:51 AM

Another beautiful pies here ;) Great job Don !
Thank you Greg!
Title: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Don Luigi on February 25, 2015, 02:13:47 AM
Have you ever tried without the shield? I've done both and I'm not sure which way I like better yet. I get more immediate blistering without the shield but I also tend to get too much color on my cornice.  How long did that forearm sized log keep a large fire? This is what I was hoping to achieve with a "medium" sized log in my previous post.

There are a hundred reasons why your dough may feel wet, and I'm sure you know them all already. What calculator are you using?

I'll give the bake without the shield a try once I've sorted my wet dough problem. I imagine it giving a more intense color to the crust. How is it handling wise? No wood pieces on your pizza ?
As for the wet dough. I'll do another test batch this weekend or such to check what it is. Maybe it's the new dough trays? I am reading alot about industrial plasticizers in cheaper plastic ware..I don't know...the calculator I am using is fine. It's this one :
http://dsissitka.webfactional.com
That forearm sized log gives enough flame/top heat for two bakes (with prep and a slice or two of Pizza in between),  with the second bake I am putting on smaller bark pieces maybe depending on how the flames look. I think it's important to note that the beech wood I am using is very dry and gives intense heat also in my living room wood stove compared to a lot of other wood  I am using (I am also cutting wood myself, but that's mostly pine and fir).
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: JD on February 25, 2015, 02:47:36 PM
I'll give the bake without the shield a try once I've sorted my wet dough problem. I imagine it giving a more intense color to the crust. How is it handling wise? No wood pieces on your pizza ?
As for the wet dough. I'll do another test batch this weekend or such to check what it is. Maybe it's the new dough trays? I am reading alot about industrial plasticizers in cheaper plastic ware..I don't know...the calculator I am using is fine. It's this one :
http://dsissitka.webfactional.com
That forearm sized log gives enough flame/top heat for two bakes (with prep and a slice or two of Pizza in between),  with the second bake I am putting on smaller bark pieces maybe depending on how the flames look. I think it's important to note that the beech wood I am using is very dry and gives intense heat also in my living room wood stove compared to a lot of other wood  I am using (I am also cutting wood myself, but that's mostly pine and fir).

So far I haven't had any issues with wood/ash on my pizza. I just got a smaller shield to test with, I think the one provided by Pizza Party may be too tall but your results are hard to argue with.

It may be a little while before I make NP again, but I will test the larger piece of wood + some lump charcoal, along with my new shield.

Regarding the wet dough, I'm sure you'll figure it out soon. Let us know what it turned out to be.





 
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Ben Holiday on February 26, 2015, 04:55:06 PM
Absolutely great looking Pies Markus! :chef:

I can't wait for our next Pizza Session to come.
And i am also curious about the Ischia  SD.

Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Don Luigi on March 01, 2015, 02:04:34 PM
Guys, I think I hit the sweetspot today! Both bake and fermentation went really well this time and I had the best Pizza so far. I am VERY happy with the results. I also solved my "wet-dough-problem" I think it was due to under-fermentation. This time fermentation went really well. Formular was 62%/2.7%Salt/5%Ischia Culture/26 Hour Ferment. Fermented at 66F in Bulk for 16 hours, and at 72F in Balls for 10 Hours. Very constant temperature due to my proofing box, heated by a dimmable light bulb (to be replaced in summer by ice/cooling packs).
Like I said I am super happy today and let some pics to the talking...
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: schold on March 01, 2015, 02:22:20 PM
Congratulations! Best so far. You know it yourself  :)
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: JD on March 01, 2015, 02:45:56 PM
Perfect!!! Tell me about your fire management Don, I need to replicate it.
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: TXCraig1 on March 01, 2015, 03:07:08 PM
Pretty.
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Roman on March 01, 2015, 04:17:16 PM
Don, those are built and cooked beautifully!
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: sub on March 01, 2015, 04:35:09 PM
Guys, I think I hit the sweetspot today!

Great Job Don, you nailed it !
Title: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Don Luigi on March 01, 2015, 05:53:51 PM
Thanks for the nice words everybody! Neapolitan Pizza is very rewarding - if you put the work, love, attention and passion in it will grant you with great results...now it's time to get these results consistently!
JD, I pre-heated the oven with the fire in the middle even shorter than last time. About 15 minutes but with a very intense fire. After these 15 minutes I pushed the fire to the side and pre -heated until the oven thermometer showed 800F - when I checked the stone temp in the middle of the oven (where I baked this time - you were right more consistent heat closer to the door) it was at 480-490C! I had an intense fire going for the top heat and in between bakes I sometimes had the door open for a minute or two to not over-heat the oven to much. I tried to shot a video but the heat was so  intense I had to watch the pizza all the time. Baking time was sub 60 seconds on pretty much all of them. Here's a very short, not very helpful clip...but that's all I could do without burning a pie...maybe you can figure the intensity of the fire from it? One of the next times I hope I can make a clip that will show more precisely what I am doing!
http://youtu.be/DJqY52haaTk
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: JD on March 01, 2015, 10:18:06 PM
Thanks for the nice words everybody! Neapolitan Pizza is very rewarding - if you put the work, love, attention and passion in it will grant you with great results...now it's time to get these results consistently!
JD, I pre-heated the oven with the fire in the middle even shorter than last time. About 15 minutes but with a very intense fire. After these 15 minutes I pushed the fire to the side and pre -heated until the oven thermometer showed 800F - when I checked the stone temp in the middle of the oven (where I baked this time - you were right more consistent heat closer to the door) it was at 480-490C! I had an intense fire going for the top heat and in between bakes I sometimes had the door open for a minute or two to not over-heat the oven to much. I tried to shot a video but the heat was so  intense I had to watch the pizza all the time. Baking time was sub 60 seconds on pretty much all of them. Here's a very short, not very helpful clip...but that's all I could do without burning a pie...maybe you can figure the intensity of the fire from it? One of the next times I hope I can make a clip that will show more precisely what I am doing!

Wow, did you bake at 480C+ or did you let it cool first? 

I don't blame you for taking a short video, I personally need full attention when making NP. What I can see looks similar to my fire, except you seem to give more air than I do. I don't have good dry wood like you do, I'm jealous.

Keep up the good work!

Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Don Luigi on March 02, 2015, 01:53:29 PM
I think the wood I am using is very important for my latest results. VERY dry beech. It's a hard wood with a great smell that burns both long and very hot. It's the typical wood in Germany for heating and also smoking!
I launched at 460-490C. I found this the perfect deck temp for 45-60 second pizzas. If I keep the oven going too long inbetween bakes I have to keep the door off for a while else the deck will be over 550C which will cremate the bottom in 45 seconds.
So, "big" fire with rolling flames across the deck almost reaching the floor, 480C deck temp and baking   pretty much in the middle of the floor space that is not in use by the fire...
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Ben Holiday on March 02, 2015, 04:12:11 PM
Outstanding!!
The Dough in the Video looks great and super soft!
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: aspendos on March 03, 2015, 09:40:26 AM
Jackpot Don. Great looking pies!

Today i was in coburg and ate a margherita in an italian pizzeria with a wood fired oven . I think you should go there and teach them how to make a real margherita  ;D

Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: TXCraig1 on March 03, 2015, 09:45:52 AM
That is such a shame.
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: aspendos on March 03, 2015, 10:02:22 AM
That is such a shame.

You are right Craig. Even my first try of margherita was better

Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Don Luigi on March 03, 2015, 10:38:22 AM
Thanks Aspendos! That Coburg Margherita sure looks like %$# - yours is far superior to that! The only good Pizza Place in our region is Ristorante Pizzeria Lo Scoiattolo in Wollbach. Wood fired oven and pretty solid Pizza...Btw, I'll contact you the next couple days because of your offer! Maybe we (including Ben Holiday) can have a Pizza Session at my place and you bring along the flour?
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: gsans on March 03, 2015, 10:40:30 AM
Jackpot Don. Great looking pies!

Today i was in coburg and ate a margherita in an italian pizzeria with a wood fired oven . I think you should go there and teach them how to make a real margherita  ;D

ohhhh a French pizza !  :chef: :pizza: so bad....
Title: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Don Luigi on March 03, 2015, 10:41:52 AM
^^^ It's a shame, Greg, but that's also quite typical in Germany with very few exceptions...
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: aspendos on March 03, 2015, 01:43:08 PM
Thanks Aspendos! That Coburg Margherita sure looks like %$# - yours is far superior to that! The only good Pizza Place in our region is Ristorante Pizzeria Lo Scoiattolo in Wollbach. Wood fired oven and pretty solid Pizza...Btw, I'll contact you the next couple days because of your offer! Maybe we (including Ben Holiday) can have a Pizza Session at my place and you bring along the flour?

Sure Don. I will need caputo flour as well.
By the way i Still cant decide if i should buy p134h or alfa wood fired oven.. ???
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Don Luigi on March 03, 2015, 02:31:30 PM
As you can guess I can highly recommend the Pizza Party Oven! I'll pm you one of these days...
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Don Luigi on March 05, 2015, 03:42:30 PM
I have a friend over at my place for a couple days and yesterday morning we decided it's going to be Pizza today. So, 24 Hour ferment, 62% Hydration, 5% Ischia, Controlled Roomtemp (21°C).
He also shot a video of me baking a 45 second Marg. I was really satisfied again. Last pies might have been a little better, but I am getting the desired consistency! Now, back to the drinks...
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Don Luigi on March 05, 2015, 03:43:57 PM
And the video....

http://youtu.be/WQDlKIV4wmo
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: aspendos on March 05, 2015, 04:18:36 PM
Good job Don. Looks delicious :pizza:
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: JD on March 05, 2015, 04:56:13 PM
Nice Don, that video is helpful. That fire is very healthy, ill try the shield again but with a big fire like yours.

I like your wood peel, I need to get a small one for launching. Regarding the turning peel, if you are capable of modifying it, I suggest cutting a radius on one side like I did. It makes turning much easier.

Nice pizzas!
Title: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Don Luigi on March 06, 2015, 04:54:06 PM
Aspendos - thanks alot!
Josh - that wooden peel is really good. It fits into the entrance of the oven nicely though it's  on the verge of being too big in size. I didn't have one Pie sticking to the peel since I am using it. Good idea with the turning peel. I might look into the mod. What did you use to cut it?
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: JD on March 06, 2015, 05:08:03 PM
Aspendos - thanks alot!
Josh - that wooden peel is really good. It fits into the entrance of the oven nicely though it's  on the verge of being too big in size. I didn't have one Pie sticking to the peel since I am using it. Good idea with the turning peel. I might look into the mod. What did you use to cut it?

I used a dremel and a cut-off wheel, but any grinder would work. It's stainless so a hand-held saw may not be a good idea.
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: schold on March 09, 2015, 04:00:16 PM
Pizza on my mind, so I'm surfing the net looking at pictures of pizza ???. This one made me think of you, Luigi - very similar to the pies you are making:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/garpa/2711184529/in/photolist-58zwGR-58DFA3/ (https://www.flickr.com/photos/garpa/2711184529/in/photolist-58zwGR-58DFA3/)
Title: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Don Luigi on March 09, 2015, 04:49:28 PM
Thanks Schold. These are some fine looking ones and if you think mine look similar I take that as a compliment. More and more trying to find my own style (or consistency) lately which is the great long term goal for me. My latest pies are a good start methinks.
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: schold on March 09, 2015, 05:46:14 PM
More and more trying to find my own style (or consistency) lately which is the great long term goal for me. My latest pies are a good start methinks.

Yes, and with the pies shown in #96 and #114, I would say that you are very well on your way. (By the way, these also look less Michele than your earlier ones, and more Luigi. And on those the cornicione is nice and round and everything - nothing for me to complain about  ;D).
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: wolver on March 09, 2015, 05:59:12 PM
Don Luigi very fast neapolitan pizza! amazing video
 ;D
And the video....

http://youtu.be/WQDlKIV4wmo

Nice Don, that video is helpful. That fire is very healthy, ill try the shield again but with a big fire like yours.

I like your wood peel, I need to get a small one for launching. Regarding the turning peel, if you are capable of modifying it, I suggest cutting a radius on one side like I did. It makes turning much easier.

Nice pizzas!
JD interesting customized peel

Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: aspendos on March 10, 2015, 08:38:06 AM
Markus

I have  good news for you



Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Don Luigi on March 10, 2015, 09:00:28 AM
Ohlala! Great Cengiz! Can't wait and I'll pm you. Ready for some Pizza, eh?
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Don Luigi on March 10, 2015, 09:15:56 AM

Don Luigi very fast neapolitan pizza! amazing video
 ;DJD interesting customized peel
Thanks Wolver!
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Don Luigi on March 12, 2015, 02:55:14 PM
Weekly Pizza Update! Not my best ones but solid I guess. Unfortunately slightly underfermented (hence the over the top leoparding), but still in the green zone I think. Bottoms were really where I like them today. Good bakes but not perfect dough managment. All under 60 sec. 61.5% Hydration, Caputo Pizzeria, 12/12 Hours at 21C (unfortunately I f.....d it up and didn't switch on the light-bulb of my proofing box over night  :o) - so it was more like 12 Hours 14C in Bulk) with 4% Ischia Starter.
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: wolver on March 12, 2015, 05:33:29 PM
Very nice :drool: :drool:!
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: JD on March 12, 2015, 06:22:09 PM
Weekly Pizza Update! Not my best ones but solid I guess. Unfortunately slightly underfermented (hence the over the top leoparding), but still in the green zone I think. Bottoms were really where I like them today. Good bakes but not perfect dough managment. All under 60 sec. 61.5% Hydration, Caputo Pizzeria, 12/12 Hours at 21C (unfortunately I f.....d it up and didn't switch on the light-bulb of my proofing box over night  :o) - so it was more like 12 Hours 14C in Bulk) with 4% Ischia Starter.

The bottom is perfect at least  ;D
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Don Luigi on March 17, 2015, 05:16:43 PM
Heyhey,
I had Ben Holiday and his nice girlfriend here as guests today and suprisingly I made some Pies for them! Also I got new Caputo Pizzeria - great - Thanks Aspendos! Like I wrote in Craig's "How I make my dough" thread I was unsure with my dough today - it spread out quite a bit again and had not much rise to the top. But the dough was certainly ok. I reballed some dough-balls about 4 hours prior to bake to see if there is a difference and it worked quite well. The dough of the re-balls wasn't as easily spreadable as the "flattened" ones but they baked with a little more rise in the cornicone, though they felt a tad more dense. But only just a little bit. Else these were some solid pies I guess. I hope I don't bore you guys with my weekly updates. But this a great resource of comparision for myself too. This bake was 62%/5%Ischia/2.7%Salt/6 in Bulk/20 in Balls at roomtemp.
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Ben Holiday on March 17, 2015, 05:30:01 PM
excellent job! thanks for hosting us and an amazing evening with outstanding Pizza!
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: JD on March 17, 2015, 05:36:56 PM
I hope I don't bore you guys with my weekly updates. But this a great resource of comparision for myself too.

Never bored with updates, I'm always looking to see if you learned any new tricks/techniques with the Pizza Party oven.


Which of the pictures are of pizzas that were re-balled 4hrs prior? Now that it's getting warmer I will be switching to a 24hr total ferment instead of 48hr and will have to mess around with re-ball times.

Looking good as usual Don.
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Don Luigi on March 17, 2015, 06:18:17 PM
Thanks Ben - my pleasure!
JD - thank you. Pretty sure the Marinara and the Proscuitto were reballed. Also Margh2 (the first one posted) was reballed I think - but not so sure about that one.
Time I put the oven out of the garage now. Spring is here and I am really looking forward managing the fire while preparing  the pizza right at the oven...not running outside/inside all the time...
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: aspendos on March 18, 2015, 07:36:45 AM
Pies look real good Markus. Where did get your dough ball box?
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Don Luigi on March 18, 2015, 08:01:23 AM
Hey Cengiz, I don't remember 100%. It's meant for cake. I think I bought it for cheap at a place called Fundgrube. It holds up to 9 Balls and I have a wooden floor for it that I will use for my next bake on Saturday to re-check if I can improve the handling of the dough balls...should work of I believe my own notes /words
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: JD on March 18, 2015, 08:13:48 AM
Thanks Ben - my pleasure!
JD - thank you. Pretty sure the Marinara and the Proscuitto were reballed. Also Margh2 (the first one posted) was reballed I think - but not so sure about that one.

Interesting, I do see a little more rise in the Marinara & proscuitto. Was the 4hr re-balled pizza any less tender than the others? Did the ball open evenly (no thick/thin spots in the opened skin?)

Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: gsans on March 18, 2015, 09:33:09 AM
Good Job DG ;)

Too much maturation, no ? the "corniccione" is little white....(especially the last)
Title: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Don Luigi on March 18, 2015, 09:37:05 AM
The reballed ones had slightly more tension, less tenderness on the rim. But more rise. Still the best Pie was the Margherita that was NOT reballed. The one pictured second last. Doughballs that were reballed were less easy to open but I got them  out of the dough tray with a lot less sweat...they opened evenly, but as said were slightly stiffer and denser. If I feel the need to reball again I'd do so 6 hours before bake. Ill do my old half/half - bulk/ball routine next bake again though.
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: gsans on March 18, 2015, 09:41:06 AM
Ok, It is for that then. ;)
Title: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Don Luigi on March 18, 2015, 11:39:46 AM
Ok, It is for that then. ;)
Sorry, I didn't see your first post, Greg - my "reball" reply was for JD. Fermentation didn't went totally to plan, you are right. They were still ok though. My Ischia culture is a little sluggish lately. I think I'll  need to change my feeding routine a little. Strangely whenever I do a a white pie I seem to take it literally and come up with a whiter cornice.  I see the phenomenon on other people's white pies too everynow and then.
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: gsans on March 18, 2015, 11:44:41 AM
Thank's DL ;)
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: JD on March 18, 2015, 11:49:04 AM
The reballed ones had slightly more tension, less tenderness on the rim. But more rise. Still the best Pie was the Margherita that was NOT reballed. The one pictured second last. Doughballs that were reballed were less easy to open but I got them  out of the dough tray with a lot less sweat...they opened evenly, but as said were slightly stiffer and denser. If I feel the need to reball again I'd do so 6 hours before bake. Ill do my old half/half - bulk/ball routine next bake again though.

Thanks for the info. I re-balled my last batch around 8-10hrs prior, and I had some thick/thin spots from gluten being fully developed. Otherwise they were only slightly stronger than 24hr re-balled doughs I've recently done. I did not like the thick/thin spots at all, but I loved the way the 8hr re-ball dough handled.


Sorry, I didn't see your first post, Greg - my "reball" reply was for JD. Fermentation didn't went totally to plan, you are right. They were still ok though. My Ischia culture is a little sluggish lately. I think I'll  need to change my feeding routine a little. Strangely whenever I do a a white pie I seem to take it literally and come up with a whiter cornice.  I see the phenomenon on other people's white pies too everynow and then.

Do you think your dough was under-fermented? If I had to guess, I would have also thought slightly over-fermented.
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Don Luigi on March 18, 2015, 12:06:26 PM
The dough matured for too long for sure thus the flattening, but I didn't see too much activity (bubble structure, rise) that's why I am guessing my Ischia isn't fully healthy right now. I will feed it daily for the next week or so. I have another bake coming on Saturday for quite a few people...
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: gsans on March 18, 2015, 12:10:01 PM
And undoubtedly, there was no more enough sugar to nourish yeasts....
Title: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Don Luigi on March 22, 2015, 06:39:34 AM
So, I needed to try out what was happening with my last (okayish but not so well fermented) dough and I made a huge step, because I think I finally found a repeatable formula for me with my Ischia Culture. Last time I think the ratio between maturation time and number of yeast bacteria in my sourdough wasn't right. So in the end it was under-fermented. I found a solution in double feeding my starter on the day I make dough and this dough matured pretty much perfectly this time. Handling, oven spring, airiness, softness, everything was much to my satisfaction this time around! I also made a short video of the consistency of one of the pies. Check it out guys. Dough was: 61%/2.7%Salt/6%Ischia/[email protected]°C.
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Don Luigi on March 22, 2015, 06:40:24 AM
and the video:

https://youtu.be/2CeRN-GkWrc
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: JD on March 22, 2015, 08:44:08 AM
Nice Don! I love the cheese melt on Marg2
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Ben Holiday on March 22, 2015, 04:16:46 PM
Very beautiful pies, Markus.
The crust looks really good, a lot of air in it.
Good to see you handled the fire as well as the fermentation ;)
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Simone on March 23, 2015, 06:24:00 AM
Very nice! :drool:
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Don Luigi on March 23, 2015, 02:55:33 PM
Thanks guys! As for air in the Cornicone - that was my main goal for this bake - getting the airy puffiness into my pies. I think it's the result of explicitly trying to incorporate as much air as possible into the dough when kneading and finding the sweetspot with my sourdough culture.
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: schold on March 23, 2015, 03:25:39 PM
Do you think your dough was under-fermented? If I had to guess, I would have also thought slightly over-fermented.

Yes, ditto. In all the cases where Don thought under-fermented, I have been thinking over-fermented. Guess we were wrong. Reading dough ain't easy  :)
Title: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Don Luigi on March 23, 2015, 03:41:33 PM
Yeah it was definitely under-fermented. Not enough yeasts in my sourdough, thus the dough didn't mature properly and kind of flattened too much with time. It still bakes quite well and you get some oven spring too and it tastes certainly good,  you just don't have the puffiness of a better fermented dough.
Besides less airy cornione there's more contrasty and bigger leoparding spots on the under-ferments instead of the more micro-leoparding on the well matured doughs.
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: wolver on March 25, 2015, 05:22:55 PM
Don Luigi to make good dough, you prefer mineral water or tap waters?
there are more differences?
Title: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Don Luigi on March 25, 2015, 06:06:26 PM
Hey Wolver, I use a Britta Water filter for my doughs (cooking in general). My water has a degree of hardness at around 5-7dH which is pretty soft and comparable to good quality bottled water.
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: wolver on March 26, 2015, 06:47:51 PM
thanks DL
i use bottled water, if the water is too cold? What do you do?
 ???
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Don Luigi on March 26, 2015, 07:11:19 PM
I never measured water temp. The water is usually a little colder than room temp. Dough is about room temp when I am ready to go bulk...
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Don Luigi on March 28, 2015, 03:05:12 PM
Pies of today! Same formula as last week 61%/2.7%S/6%Ischia/Caputo Pizzeria. 21 Hours (3 Hours more would have been better I must say). 12 Bulk, 9 Balls.
I recently read Fagilia's observations that the way you put the dough balls in your dough tray plays a huge role in outcome of the cornicone. I absolutely agree I must say. If the dough ball is forced by space restrictions (in a small container a la Craig for example or by putting more in one tray like Ciro Salvo) to rise more to the top than to rise by flattening a little more the cornicone will definitely be more puffy and airy. The first Marinara was again with alot of lightness in the cornicone and airy and really what I'd call a a great cornice while some of the other pies were a little "doughy" in the cornice - still air in there but not as much puffiness. The Marinara was stored in a small container while the other pies where in my usual dough tray. Observation of the day. Ah, that and Pears and Gorgonzola make a great topping. Next time more gorgonzola and smaller pieces of Pears but - wow - what a combination. Thanks Omid!
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: invertedisdead on April 03, 2015, 11:01:38 AM
Wicked pies! That marinara looks especially righteous. Jealous of you wood burners. Would love to play outside in a little fire.
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Simone on April 03, 2015, 02:45:34 PM
happy for you! Very amazing Pizzas
happy Easter for all
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: JD on April 03, 2015, 03:54:13 PM
I missed this post, excellent work Don. They're all great but that marinara is beautiful.
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Don Luigi on April 03, 2015, 03:56:45 PM
Thank you, friends!
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: aspendos on April 03, 2015, 04:42:19 PM
Its high time to open up a neapolitan pizzeria in bad kissingen   ;D
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Don Luigi on April 03, 2015, 04:47:57 PM
Hehe, who knows? But definitely more practicing to do...:-)
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: thezaman on April 03, 2015, 04:58:30 PM
beautiful pizza, I would love to try your margherita's they all look perfect. how do you cut your cheese? the melt looks like a lot of the pizzas I had in naples. on the menu they list their cheese as mozzarella chips.
 I just bought a 9 mm mozzarella shredding disc am going to see how that shreds.
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Don Luigi on April 03, 2015, 05:46:36 PM

beautiful pizza, I would love to try your margherita's they all look perfect. how do you cut your cheese? the melt looks like a lot of the pizzas I had in naples. on the menu they list their cheese as mozzarella chips.
 I just bought a 9 mm mozzarella shredding disc am going to see how that shreds.
Thanks alot! Really appreciated. I cut my Mozzarella by hand. No shredder or anything. I cut approximately 1cm cubes these days. I am not very precise I guess but it doesn't really matter, right? I tried alot but I like it best this way I think. Maybe I'll try smaller by a very small margin one of the next times. Enclosed you find a pic of one of my pies pre bake where you can see the way the mozzarella is cut pretty well. Ahh, I use Galbani water packed mozzarella.
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: aspendos on April 04, 2015, 07:45:06 AM
Markus. I saw  at tegut mozerella di buffalo D.O.P. today. Costs 1.39€
Title: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Don Luigi on April 04, 2015, 08:41:32 AM
In Bad Neustadt? I buy this one regularly, thanks for the note, Aspendos! Today I have been at the Groma (sort of Metro)  and bought Galbani 360gr max Packs for 0,89 Euro each! I bought 6 and put four in the freezer. Plus they have the best Basil around here...and dry aged gold beef for 20 Euros per kilo :-)
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: JD on April 04, 2015, 08:59:52 AM
In Bad Neustadt? I buy this one regularly, thanks for the note, Aspendos! Today I have been at the Groma (sort of Metro)  and bought Galbani 360gr max Packs for 0,89 Euro each! I bought 6 and put four in the freezer. Plus they have the best Basil around here...and dry aged gold beef for 20 Euros per kilo :-)

Have you put fresh mozz in the freezer before? I've done that with low moisture mozz but never thought to do it with the fresh stuff which is a good idea.
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Don Luigi on April 04, 2015, 09:01:28 AM
I tried - and short periods in the freezer it works. It just needs to be drained a little more, but taste and texture stay good
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: JD on April 04, 2015, 09:16:13 AM
I tried - and short periods in the freezer it works. It just needs to be drained a little more, but taste and texture stay good

Great, thanks. The 8oz galbani balls are usually too small and the 16oz log is too big, so I'll get the big one and freeze the extras for a test next time.

Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: SAUZER.ITALY on April 04, 2015, 09:51:10 AM
Bravo Don ! i love pizza marinara  :pizza: very nice...
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Simone on April 04, 2015, 10:48:59 AM
Happy Easter for all
 :drool:
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Don Luigi on April 06, 2015, 05:42:40 AM
Thank you, Renato and Simone. :-)
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Don Luigi on April 06, 2015, 01:35:58 PM
I am a happy little easter bunny today  ;D ! These were my best tasting Pies so far. So puffy and light. Funny thing, I wanted to try more of a UPN kind of look and I think especially the first Margh were I also went light on the sauce, heavy on the EVOO was pretty close, at least when it comes to  the look. These had a great melt in your mouth texture and are super easy to digest. I am feeding my Ischia on a daily base now and use it when it has doubled and is really bubbly - now my doughs ferment pretty much perfectly, I'll be back to a 48 Hour ferment next time to try. This was 22 Hours. 12 in Bulk. Room Temp, 60% and 6% Ischia.

Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: JD on April 06, 2015, 02:17:43 PM
Excellent job Don.
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: thezaman on April 06, 2015, 07:58:48 PM
beautiful pizzas, you definitely  got the upn look.especially the first margh
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: TXCraig1 on April 06, 2015, 09:17:01 PM
Very nice. I really like Margh1.
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Chaze215 on April 06, 2015, 10:40:21 PM
I am a happy little easter bunny today  ;D ! These were my best tasting Pies so far. So puffy and light. Funny thing, I wanted to try more of a UPN kind of look and I think especially the first Margh were I also went light on the sauce, heavy on the EVOO was pretty close, at least when it comes to  the look. These had a great melt in your mouth texture and are super easy to digest. I am feeding my Ischia on a daily base now and use it when it has doubled and is really bubbly - now my doughs ferment pretty much perfectly, I'll be back to a 48 Hour ferment next time to try. This was 22 Hours. 12 in Bulk. Room Temp, 60% and 6% Ischia.
Very nice! Were they 12 in bulk, 10 balled...both at room temperature?
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Don Luigi on April 07, 2015, 12:30:35 AM
Thanks for the nice words, guys!
Chaze, it was 12 Hours in bulk at 19*C and 10 in Balls at 21-22*C.
Title: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Don Luigi on April 13, 2015, 01:44:02 PM
Today's Pies were 48 hour ferment @ 65-70°F, 2% Ischia, 64% Hydration, 2.8% Salt. These were nice but my last were slightly better fermented and baked better too. Guess I am more of a 24 Hour, lower Hydration guy. ;)
Still  Margh1 was a fantastic Pie and my kids seem to have fun taking photos of Pizza too...
Check for yourself!
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: SAUZER.ITALY on April 14, 2015, 02:23:56 AM
wow Don !!! very very very nice  :pizza: :pizza: ^^^
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: JD on April 14, 2015, 06:36:47 AM
Beautiful!!  What do you like better about a 24hr ferment?  2% would be too much for me to do a 48hr ferment, was your dough over-proofed?

 
Title: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Don Luigi on April 14, 2015, 07:23:38 AM
Thanks Renato and Josh!
I get more oven spring, lighter crust and more of a "yoghurty creaminess" in my dough when I use more of my culture. 5-7% seems to be the sweetspot here. This dough looked and felt right but didn't bake with the same rise and airiness. It was good but not as good as my last bake. Also whenever I do longer ferments the leoparding is a bit over the top for my liking (to contrasty) and pies come out a tad too soft. If anything it was under fermented again. I fermented for pretty much all the time (except the last two hours) at 65*F and slightly lower - I should have brought them earlier to 70-72*F roomtemp.
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: JD on April 14, 2015, 08:25:57 AM
If anything it was under fermented again. I fermented for pretty much all the time (except the last two hours) at 65*F and slightly lower - I should have brought them earlier to 70-72*F roomtemp.

Do you have any pictures of your dough-balls right before bake?
Title: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Don Luigi on April 14, 2015, 08:30:12 AM
I just have an "under" photo.  If you compare it with the last batch "under" photo (one page earlier) you see less activity in this batch. Lots of small "air-holes" though, which is always a good sign to me.
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: JD on April 14, 2015, 11:13:02 AM
I just have an "under" photo.  If you compare it with the last batch "under" photo (one page earlier) you see less activity in this batch. Lots of small "air-holes" though, which is always a good sign to me.

For sure under-fermented. My starter is much more active than yours I guess.  It's nice to associate the leopard patterns with amount of fermentation, if that's even possible. 
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Don Luigi on April 14, 2015, 11:22:20 AM
I am pretty sure that slight under-fermenting leads to more pronounced leoparding and paler cornicone, thus more contrast on the rim. I think if I brought the dough to  70*F room temp earlier (like 8 hours earlier) it would have been perfect. I think activity differences in starter cultures are mostly because of temperature differences they are stored. I am pretty much trying to have my ambient temp here at about 69-70 *F which feels great to me but many people (including my wife) tell me it's too cold for them. Seems like I'm a hot-blooded guy
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Don Luigi on April 14, 2015, 12:45:58 PM

For sure under-fermented. My starter is much more active than yours I guess.  It's nice to associate the leopard patterns with amount of fermentation, if that's even possible.
How long does it take for your starter to double and be really bubbly after feeding?
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: JD on April 14, 2015, 01:31:32 PM
How long does it take for your starter to double and be really bubbly after feeding?

Depends on flour/water ratios I use.  I typically use 30:30:30 (starter:flour:water) which would be about 3-4 hours to triple (I always wait until tripled, not doubled)

If I do 50:25:25 then 2-3hrs to triple.


One thing I've noticed recently, and is purely speculation, but if I were to make two identical doughs using either of the above ratios, the 50:25:25 would ferment faster.


 
Title: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Don Luigi on April 14, 2015, 01:34:44 PM
Ok, thanks for the info! That sounds surely like your starter is more active than mine. Mine needs 3-4 Hours to double. I always feed more like 50:25:25 - though I am not measuring...
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Simone on April 15, 2015, 04:50:50 PM
Excellent Don Luigi :drool: :drool:
if possible make a video many customers will appreciate  ::)
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: thevulture on April 15, 2015, 05:01:41 PM
I have ordered a Pizzone from Simone today!

I will be very happy if I can achieve similar results  to you.

Off to read this thread from the start again.
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Don Luigi on April 15, 2015, 05:05:49 PM
Happy to help and inspire!
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: David Esq. on April 16, 2015, 09:45:07 AM
Don, your pizzas are beautiful.  One day, my 4 year old told me that I forgot to take a picture when I was making dinner. That really made me laugh ... now I see that other children are learning the need to photograph food!

I have two questions:

1) Do you ever yearn for a larger oven like the Pizzone, or do you pretty much feel that even with a lot more floor space you would not be able to easily make more than one pie at a time?
2) Now that you've dialed in on the oven and the baking process, have you given any thought to trying the other starter you were using and comparing it to the Ischia?
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: stevehollx on April 16, 2015, 11:36:40 AM
Great looking pies.  I've been experimenting more away from the 48h 2% formula lately, too, but haven't found anything that has topped it yet.  Your 24h 6% @ room temp pies looks great.

Makes me wonder if I should get a pizza party oven to supplement the blackstone oven.  Anyone have both and care to comment?
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Don Luigi on April 16, 2015, 01:59:03 PM
Don, your pizzas are beautiful.  One day, my 4 year old told me that I forgot to take a picture when I was making dinner. That really made me laugh ... now I see that other children are learning the need to photograph food!

I have two questions:

1) Do you ever yearn for a larger oven like the Pizzone, or do you pretty much feel that even with a lot more floor space you would not be able to easily make more than one pie at a time?
2) Now that you've dialed in on the oven and the baking process, have you given any thought to trying the other starter you were using and comparing it to the Ischia?

Thanks for the nice words, David! As for your questions.

1) No. I am perfectly fine with the size of the 70x70. I don't have the urge to do more than one Pizza at once. At 40-60 seconds cook time who cares anyway. You could do 2 Pizze at once but I guess they'd be more in the 1:30 Minute range and would need quite a bit of attention. No problem at all with around 350°C on the floor and open door for 2-4 Minute bake I guess, though I never tried.

2) I baked with a San Francisco SD Starter earlier and got good results too, though I prefer the Ischia Culture taste wise. There's definitely a big diffference. The Ischia is very smooth tasting and has no noticable tangy taste at all which the SF Starter definitely has. I also still have the Camaldoli Starte unactivated in a shelf here and this summer I'll be on vacation in the olive mounts of ancient Liguria and I am planing to capture a wild yeast culture there. But for now I continue with the Ischia until I have the feeling I have fully figured it out - which is not yet  ;) ;)
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Don Luigi on April 16, 2015, 02:04:48 PM
Great looking pies.  I've been experimenting more away from the 48h 2% formula lately, too, but haven't found anything that has topped it yet.  Your 24h 6% @ room temp pies looks great.

Makes me wonder if I should get a pizza party oven to supplement the blackstone oven.  Anyone have both and care to comment?

Steve, thanks. I can highly recommend the Pizza Party Oven. It's great fun and just feels like the real thing.It's well built, Simone is a great guy and obviously the oven works great for Neapolitan Pizza.  I mean the Blackstone is getting superb results as well - see Thezaman, Craig, Dylan etc. but playing with real fire is just something I always enjoyed  >:D

As for 48 Hours vs. 24 Hours. I think it's really a preference thing and what works out for you. I never managed to get a 48 Hour SD ferment that went 100% to plan yet (so I will try again one of these days), but my 24 Hour/6% Ischia Pies come out very nicely most of the time. So, it's just what works better for me.
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: JD on April 16, 2015, 02:08:49 PM
1) No. I am perfectly fine with the size of the 70x70. I don't have the urge to do more than one Pizza at once. At 40-60 seconds cook time who cares anyway.

Completely agree for Neapolitan but if someone was to do something like NY style, 4-6 minute bake times one at a time would take forever. I've done 2 at a time in my 70 x 70 though and it's totally manageable with NY style. The Pizzone allegedly does 4, but I probably wouldn't do more than 3 at a time anyway. Considering the design of the oven, I don't think the Pizzone would require much more wood than the 70 x 70.

I wish I could try the 70 x 90 just to compare the two.



but playing with real fire is just something I always enjoyed  >:D

 ^^^ ^^^
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: David Esq. on April 16, 2015, 04:41:54 PM
I was thinking that if I wanted to make "a lot" of pizza I would use their pizza alla metro (i.e., a long rectangular pie) and could get away with that.  Given that I entertain at most a few times  a year, the larger oven seems like it would just be more oven than I need and likely use more wood to get it up to heat (more floor space has to translate to more heat needed, no?)
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: JD on April 16, 2015, 05:16:16 PM
I was thinking that if I wanted to make "a lot" of pizza I would use their pizza alla metro (i.e., a long rectangular pie) and could get away with that.  Given that I entertain at most a few times  a year, the larger oven seems like it would just be more oven than I need and likely use more wood to get it up to heat (more floor space has to translate to more heat needed, no?)

It's about 28" x 8" worth of additional hearth to heat up. I don't know for sure, but I can't imagine it would take that much more wood, if any, to preheat.
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: David Esq. on April 17, 2015, 06:33:52 AM
Maybe not. 224 square inches of brick to saturate may not take much longer. So then maybe the question is, just for the extra money is it worth it for the extra space that I might one day but probably never use?  Do you ever find yourself thinking, I wish the oven were bigger?  Maybe to add more pizza or to just move the one you have further from the flame?
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Don Luigi on April 17, 2015, 07:26:40 AM
Maybe not. 224 square inches of brick to saturate may not take much longer. So then maybe the question is, just for the extra money is it worth it for the extra space that I might one day but probably never use?  Do you ever find yourself thinking, I wish the oven were bigger?  Maybe to add more pizza or to just move the one you have further from the flame?

Can't speak for JD obviously, but I've never though about a bigger oven honestly...so far, I might add - you never know... :-D
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: JD on April 17, 2015, 08:39:09 AM
Maybe not. 224 square inches of brick to saturate may not take much longer. So then maybe the question is, just for the extra money is it worth it for the extra space that I might one day but probably never use?  Do you ever find yourself thinking, I wish the oven were bigger?  Maybe to add more pizza or to just move the one you have further from the flame?

Never when doing Neapolitan, but when making NY style 2 at a time, a little extra room never hurt anybody.
Title: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Don Luigi on April 18, 2015, 08:27:34 AM
Why is it whenever you have guests that something with your dough doesn't work out as planned. I have a dough that is really ready now but needs to survive for 6 more hours at least. I put it outside at about 12*C. Anything else I could do? Fridge is not an option, too much dough-balls I won't get em inside....
I'm 100% sure bigger batches of dough ferment much faster vs smaller batches...
Title: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Don Luigi on April 19, 2015, 06:16:44 AM
So, my dough was still usable. Maybe slightly on the side of over-fermentation but not by much. The texture and taste changed a bit though due to being fermented for 7 hours at much lower temps, but better than an unusable dough when you have 10 hungry guests knocking your door!
I made 15 Pies in my oven. The Oven is still in the garage while I do the prep work inside. I surely walked a couple kilometres yesterday and fire managment is not always ideal like this - but it worked even for so many pies. I'll get the oven out of the garage and into the sunlight soon!
Formula 61%/6%Ischia/2.7%Salt/Fermented total for 26 Hours at roomtemp with a 6 Hour ferment time in balls @12°C.
Not many pics but I managed to do at least a few. Pie 1 and 3 is the same btw. Before and after dressing with Parma Ham, arugula and parmesano...
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: JD on April 19, 2015, 09:54:06 AM
Wow, 15 Neapolitan pizzas? Way to go, those look great as usual.
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: aspendos on April 20, 2015, 03:20:45 AM
Servus Markus,

Great looking neapel pizza. Did you take the pics with your cell phone or with a camera?
Title: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Don Luigi on April 20, 2015, 04:18:49 AM
Thanks JD and Cengiz!

Yeah 15 Pies was the most I did so far. It worked nicely and soon when I am next to the oven preparing the Pizzas it shouldn't be a problem at all! Everybody loved it - I was only so-so satisfied. These weren't my best but some real nice ones in there. Strife for perfection is a blessing for the others and a burden to the self, ha! The last two Pies I did where Desert Pizza with banannas and brown sugar + Hazelnut Nougat Creme. I'll be adding some ricotta to that next time and it will be very nice!

Cengiz, I am using my Iphone 5s Cam. I am always editing the pics a little with Iphone Onboard Photo Editor to get the colours a little more natural. With the right light the Iphone makes pretty good pics.
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: schold on April 20, 2015, 06:16:50 AM
No pizza with french fries?
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Don Luigi on April 20, 2015, 06:31:50 AM
I actually prefer to have my pizza nicely balanced - like this...;-)
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: JD on April 20, 2015, 07:55:53 AM
Strife for perfection is a blessing for the others and a burden to the self, ha!

That's an understatement! I made 6 yesterday that everyone loved, not a single slice remaining. What they don't know is my fermentation was off again, over-fermented I believe. None were post-worthy in my opinion >:(

I think I'm going to use bakers yeast and cold ferment my next attempt, or cut way back on my starter, haven't decided yet.



No pizza with french fries?
I actually prefer to have my pizza nicely balanced - like this...;-)

... and you guys think Americans are fat...

Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: pizapizza on April 20, 2015, 10:45:11 AM
they look great!
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: schold on April 20, 2015, 02:36:45 PM
I actually prefer to have my pizza nicely balanced - like this...;-)

Oh, she's a beaut - balanced both aesthetically and nutritionally...

I wish the "patatine" pizza was a joke, but I have actually seen quite a few Sardinian kids order it.
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Don Luigi on April 21, 2015, 03:37:52 AM

I think I'm going to use bakers yeast and cold ferment my next attempt, or cut way back on my starter, haven't decided yet.

Didn't you previously use the Ischia Yeast as well? Why don't you go back and try that again? The 1 gr per Liter of Water Formula for Cake Yeast and 24 Hour Roomtemp works quite well if you wanna go there.
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: JD on April 21, 2015, 08:37:08 AM
Didn't you previously use the Ischia Yeast as well? Why don't you go back and try that again? The 1 gr per Liter of Water Formula for Cake Yeast and 24 Hour Roomtemp works quite well if you wanna go there.

Unfortunately I hadn't used my Ischia for so long, and I neglected to refresh it every now and then so it became spoiled and I threw it away.

Great minds think alike however, last night I made dough using IDY for a room temp fermentation to use tonight. It was the last of my Caputo so I hope it goes well.
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Don Luigi on April 25, 2015, 08:41:46 AM
Had a friend over for a Pizza and Bourbon Session -> great times!
Now my Ischia Culture is very stable and I get really predictable fermentation result. I must say I am really into the puffy UPN Style of Pizza right now. Those are light as feathers and so easy on the stomache - you can't stop eating. My friend also shot another video which I uploaded to my youtube channel - maybe it is helpful for some. Who knows? These were all 50-60 seconds except for Margh 2 which was around 80 Seconds.
My fave formula right now, but higher hydrated. 64%/2.7% Salt/7%Ischia/20 Hour ferment at 20°C. I am getting better :-)



Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Don Luigi on April 25, 2015, 08:42:26 AM
And the video

https://youtu.be/767wILRpW6k
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Simone on April 25, 2015, 10:05:53 AM
Great Don!!! :drool: :drool:
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: JD on April 25, 2015, 10:33:35 AM
Pro!
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: HansB on April 25, 2015, 11:04:43 AM
Ausgezeichnet!
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: schold on April 25, 2015, 11:08:01 AM
Pro!

Yes, he is! Congratulations, Don!
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Sirius on April 25, 2015, 01:00:45 PM
Looking Good! What mozzarella Do you use?
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Don Luigi on April 25, 2015, 02:56:44 PM
Thanks for the nice comments!
Sirius, I am using Galbani Water packed in their maxi size. Very milky, not too wet, not too dry - great melt. Got the tip from TxCraig's thread.
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: TXCraig1 on April 25, 2015, 03:19:57 PM
That's the look I really like - gentle even browning w/ light leoparding. Bellissimo.
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Don Luigi on April 25, 2015, 03:32:17 PM

That's the look I really like - gentle even browning w/ light leoparding. Bellissimo.
Thank you, Craig. A great pleasure to hear that from you. And I agree - this look produces the best tasting pies in my experience.
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Chaze215 on April 25, 2015, 09:19:15 PM
Looking good Don! Do you need to keep the door on during baking?
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Don Luigi on April 26, 2015, 03:58:55 AM
Hi Chaze. Thanks. It'll work with the door off too for the bake but I prefer to have the door on.
It keeps the heat in and shortens bake time.
I can regulate the air flow in the oven with the door, as you can see in the vid at around 0:27. I give more air to the flames and increase upper heat.
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: SAUZER.ITALY on April 27, 2015, 07:22:11 AM
Don Luigi !! wow !! BRAVISSIMO !!! very very nice Margherita  ^^^ ^^^ ^^^ ^^^
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Don Luigi on April 27, 2015, 08:28:29 AM
Thanks Renato! I'm flattered.
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: SAUZER.ITALY on April 27, 2015, 09:03:23 AM
Thanks Renato! I'm flattered.

I consider myself a connoisseur of pizza True .. I confirm my congratulations, you've got great results!  :chef:
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: f.montoya on April 29, 2015, 08:57:26 AM
Those are some pretty pies, Don. Well done, my friend!!
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Don Luigi on April 29, 2015, 12:54:06 PM

Those are some pretty pies, Don. Well done, my friend!!
Thanks Fidel! I've always enjoyed greatly looking at your pizza and your videos.
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Don Luigi on May 03, 2015, 01:59:22 PM
Made some Pies today. Tried less Ischia (5%), more Hydration (65). Ambient Temp/21 Hours - pretty low outside temperatures in Germany right now.  I am definitely not liking it as much as my last more airy and light results. These were okayish and leoparded like crazy though. Didn't bother to make more photos because I was disappointed and it was raining cats and dogs. I'll go back to 6-7% Starter and 61-62% Hydration next time again.
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: thevulture on May 03, 2015, 02:30:26 PM
They still look excellent.
In the process of heating up my pizzone for the first 'serious' firing.
I had a practice yesterday.
All the bottoms were burnt.

waiting for the oven to hit 400, before I launch the first pizza.
Weather crappy here, in Scotland too.
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Don Luigi on May 05, 2015, 05:36:21 PM
Thanks thevulture! Your first serious firing went fine?
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: TXCraig1 on May 05, 2015, 05:50:30 PM
Made some Pies today. Tried less Ischia (5%), more Hydration (65). Ambient Temp/21 Hours - pretty low outside temperatures in Germany right now.  I am definitely not liking it as much as my last more airy and light results. These were okayish and leoparded like crazy though. Didn't bother to make more photos because I was disappointed and it was raining cats and dogs. I'll go back to 6-7% Starter and 61-62% Hydration next time again.

Quite stunning visually. I would I could taste them.

Why do you feel like you need so much culture? How long are you fermenting and at what temp? 6-7% of the flour is much more than you would ever expect to see in Naples where my understanding is that 7% of the water is pretty much the max.
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Pete-zza on May 05, 2015, 06:34:40 PM
Craig,

Marco (pizzanapoletana) used to talk about using a natural starter from one to five percent of the formula water. See, for example, Reply 10 at:

http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=861.msg8679;topicseen#msg8679

Peter
Title: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Don Luigi on May 06, 2015, 04:29:16 AM
Quite stunning visually. I would I could taste them.

Why do you feel like you need so much culture? How long are you fermenting and at what temp? 6-7% of the flour is much more than you would ever expect to see in Naples where my understanding is that 7% of the water is pretty much the max.
Thanks Craig - but these looked better than they tasted. Too dense crust - kinda "doughy". I missed the slightly crisp texture of the outer Cornicone and some airiness inside.
As for the amount of starter. It's the amount I figured by trial and error that works for me. I have about 20C ambient temp in my house this time of the year and ferment for 21-26 Hours. 5-7% Ischia Starter.
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: thevulture on May 09, 2015, 05:43:18 PM
Thanks thevulture! Your first serious firing went fine?


Hi Don,

Thanks for asking, OK but not great.
Hopefully tomorrow's baking will be even better.
I will try and take some photos to upload.

Cheers.
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Don Luigi on May 10, 2015, 10:10:09 AM
Yesterday's Pies Post with a huge hangover! Had two of my best friends at my place, wife and kids out of house - that means: Pizza, Beers and Bourbons!

My favourite formular. Fully Active Ischia 6%, 62% filtered Water, 2.7%Salt, Caputo Pizzeria. Ferment 24 hours at 21°C -  12/12 Bulk/Balls. All Pies were around 50-60 seconds in the oven.
Lovely airiness, creamy, moist and tender crumb and slight crisp outer shell of the cornicone. This is exactly how I love to have my Pies! My friends loved them too and were really into Margheritas - so I made 3! New tradition - Leftover Pizza. Whatever is left over of the ingredients goes on the last pie.

Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: f.montoya on May 10, 2015, 10:27:18 AM
Don,

Someone should lock you up and throw away the key.  Outstanding pies that could be illegal!!!
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Simone on May 10, 2015, 02:36:35 PM
Don,

Someone should lock you up and throw away the key.  Outstanding pies that could be illegal!!!

 :drool: :drool: :drool:
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: aspendos on May 11, 2015, 10:30:35 AM
Very nice Markus.
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Don Luigi on May 11, 2015, 01:28:23 PM
Thank you Fidel, Simone and Cengiz! Much appreciated!
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: SAUZER.ITALY on May 12, 2015, 09:07:48 AM
Bravo Don !!!!!!!
really beautiful .. :chef:
I really like your section, unfortunately there are few who understand how important the review section of cornice.
The internal shape of the cornice explains the digestibility and the lightness of the pizza.
If I can give you some advice on how to cut the ledge to get a better section, use scissors  ;)
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: TXCraig1 on May 12, 2015, 09:17:11 AM
Pretty.
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: TXCraig1 on May 12, 2015, 09:22:08 AM
These pies have much more of the look I like to achieve - lower contrast leoparding and a gentle, even browning. Quickly looking at your descriptions, you used more yeast and lower hydration. Was there other differences in the formula, workflow, and/or oven management?

I like ~62% as well. I've noticed that high contrast leoparding and big cat spots often accompany (but certainly not always) higher hydration. Thoughts?
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Don Luigi on May 12, 2015, 02:39:01 PM
Thank you so much Renato and Craig! Much, much appreciated!  ;D

Craig, this is the look that produces the best tasting pies in my opinion too. Preparation of the dough was identical - just more Ischia, less Hydration. My Culture was a little more active as well. I fed it better than last time and fed it more flour which resulted in a little stiffer culture that has more yeast activity I think. Nowadays I totally prefer Hydation in the 60-63% Region. Some observations of mine lately:
More Hydration often leads to more flattened out doughballs which leads to less rise in the cornice and more contrasted leoparding (see Da Michele). I think it is because more hydration seems to support less yeast acitivity and of course more water will put more "Weight" on them poor balls so they flat out. I made the same observation with my SD Culture - if it is a little stiffer it'll rise more quickly and produces more "air bubbles" and thus ferment the dough in a better way. Better fermented dough leads to better rise, more even browning and less leoparding, better structure of the crumb and slightly crisp outer shell of the Pizza - generally better Pizza if you ask me. I know that you, Craig,  made the observation that higher hydrations ferment more quickly, but I am not sure about it. The more Flour you feed the better it should ferment, shouldn't it? IN my experience whenever I go for lower hydrations my doughballs rise more to the top and ferment much better. What do you think?
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: David Esq. on May 12, 2015, 07:05:32 PM
More flour means more food. But higher hydration means it is easier for the yeast to swim around and get to the food. A happy medium is needed for good dough.
Title: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Don Luigi on May 18, 2015, 01:46:02 PM
This week's Pies! Same formular as last couple of times. 62/6SD/2.7S/24 Hours/Roomtemp around 19-20°C. Satisfied. Oven slightly hotter, fermentation slightly less. Very good taste and very tender Pizza! Pie of the day was the last Calzone. First time I got it right. I left the door open for this one and baked it close to the oven mouth and had the oven cool down a little before the bake. It was really delicious. Will be repeated!
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: JD on May 18, 2015, 02:07:49 PM
Lookin' good Don
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: TXCraig1 on May 18, 2015, 02:22:37 PM
More flour means more food. But higher hydration means it is easier for the yeast to swim around and get to the food. A happy medium is needed for good dough.

Yeast are not motile. Either the food must come to them or they must be mechanically moved to the food.
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: TXCraig1 on May 18, 2015, 02:40:51 PM
I know that you, Craig,  made the observation that higher hydrations ferment more quickly, but I am not sure about it. The more Flour you feed the better it should ferment, shouldn't it? IN my experience whenever I go for lower hydrations my doughballs rise more to the top and ferment much better. What do you think?

I'm pretty sure it's true. AOTBE, yeast are more efficient in a wetter environment. Less water in the environment requires more energy to hydrate the cell for survival. The less energy that the yeast needs to use to survive, the more they have left over for growth. One of my kids tested this in a science project a couple years ago. I'll see if I can find the data.
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: TXCraig1 on May 18, 2015, 02:41:27 PM
This week's Pies! Same formular as last couple of times. 62/6SD/2.7S/24 Hours/Roomtemp around 19-20°C. Satisfied. Oven slightly hotter, fermentation slightly less. Very good taste and very tender Pizza! Pie of the day was the last Calzone. First time I got it right. I left the door open for this one and baked it close to the oven mouth and had the oven cool down a little before the bake. It was really delicious. Will be repeated!

Looks great from here.
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: TXCraig1 on May 18, 2015, 02:58:28 PM
Here is his data.  Three sets of dough were made at 50%, 60%, 70%, 80%, and 90% HR. One set each with 0.2%, 0.5%, and 1.25% IDY respectively. Temperature was held at a constant (77F if I remember correctly) The time it took the dough to double in volume was measured for each dough. Within each set of yeast % doughs, the time to double was normalized at 60%HR. The time to double as specific hydration levels was only compared within the set of doughs made with the same IDY%. While it shows is there there is not a lot of difference in the time to double between 60%-90% HR, but below 70%, the time to double begins to increase significantly. The amount of yeast used doesn't appear to play much of a role in the HR% - time to double relationship.
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: TXCraig1 on May 18, 2015, 03:00:05 PM
It was a junior high science project, so it comes with that caveat.
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Don Luigi on May 18, 2015, 03:19:04 PM
Thanks Josh and Craig for the nice words and thanks Craig for the wealth of information on Hydration and fermentation of dough and the scientific proof. Guess it was just coincidence here that whenever I went for higher Hydration my dough didn't ferment as nicely. I'll give it another try soon and make sure my Ischia is healthy and active. I really need to feed it very regularly (read: daily) to make sure it's really active.
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: SAUZER.ITALY on May 19, 2015, 04:04:02 AM
wow DON !!!!  ^^^ ! excellent picture of the edge section.
very good  for the calzone. :pizza:
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: David Esq. on May 19, 2015, 05:28:01 AM
Don, are you baking the pies on those screens? How are the bottoms looking?
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Don Luigi on May 19, 2015, 05:50:07 AM
I am baking directly on the stone of course. Getting top and bottom heat into balance takes some time learning. It largely depends on your pre-heatibg time and fire managment in general. Here's a shot from a typical bottom - not from yesterday but two-three weeks ago.
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: David Esq. on May 19, 2015, 09:09:32 AM
I cannot wait to try this.  Fire management is going to take a while to learn for sure, but I am sure going to enjoy the process.  I only asked about the screens because I saw them in the picture.  I think a perforated screen would probably still give a fine result while making it easier for folks like me to "launch".  Of course, I don't own a screen so I'll have to do it the old fashion way. :)
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: rsaha on May 21, 2015, 08:32:25 AM
Great thread and beautiful pizzas. I will be trying your 6%SD 12/12 formulation soon.
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Don Luigi on May 23, 2015, 02:05:12 PM
Thanks! It's my go to formula and works great for me!
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Don Luigi on May 25, 2015, 01:00:41 PM
Made some Pies today. No photos since I couldn't find my phone and the kids were hungry like little wolves. A little over fermented I must say, but deliciously light. Now that temperature increases in Germany I think I need to cut back on my starter culture and will go for 4-5% for a 24 Hour ferment. Or I'll use my proofing box with bottles filled with ice  a la Craig.
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Don Luigi on June 03, 2015, 02:15:40 PM
Hey Guys, made some Pies again. These went down really light and were fantastic in taste and texture. 24 Hour Ferment, 4.5% Ischia, 62% Hydration, Caputo Pizzeria. Lovely Pies on a great early summer evening in Germany. Live can be so easy and so beautiful.
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: f.montoya on June 03, 2015, 09:32:29 PM
Absolute genius!! (that's my new word these days) I bet some cold German beer would go well with those beauties. I'll have to make my way out to Germany one of these days.
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: SAUZER.ITALY on June 04, 2015, 02:45:32 AM
Big DON !! Bravo.. Bravo...  ^^^
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Don Luigi on June 04, 2015, 04:52:07 AM
Thanks Renato and Fidel! Fidel, if you come over to Germany give me a buzz. A Pizza/German Beer Session can easily be arranged...
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: JD on June 04, 2015, 05:33:30 AM
Beautiful, really. Wish I could try those!
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Don Luigi on June 05, 2015, 02:52:01 AM
Thanks Josh! Can you use your Pizza Party oven in your new location?
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Simone on June 05, 2015, 08:27:40 AM
Excellent Don  :drool: :drool:
I will come to you in Germany and eat your pizza  ;D
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: f.montoya on June 05, 2015, 09:22:21 AM
Fidel, if you come over to Germany give me a buzz. A Pizza/German Beer Session can easily be arranged...

I will keep that in mind! I have other friends living in Germany, and you're giving me yet another good excuse to go.
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: TXCraig1 on June 05, 2015, 09:39:24 AM
Very nice.
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: JD on June 05, 2015, 12:54:13 PM
Thanks Josh! Can you use your Pizza Party oven in your new location?

Yes I can. In one week I moved across the country, my second son was born, and I started a new job. I'm dying to fire it up, hopefully soon. In the meantime I'll keep checking this thread  :D
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: David Esq. on June 05, 2015, 05:33:45 PM
Congratulations!
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Neopolitan on June 07, 2015, 05:32:23 AM
Pizza Und Party.. Auschezeigenet!

Nur nog Birra! ;D

Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Don Luigi on June 08, 2015, 09:17:39 AM

Pizza Und Party.. Auschezeigenet!

Nur nog Birra! ;D
bier is altijd goed
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Neopolitan on June 12, 2015, 04:50:28 PM
Wauw!
 :D
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: thevulture on June 13, 2015, 09:20:33 AM
Wow those last pies are amazing.

 
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: thevulture on June 13, 2015, 09:36:16 AM
How long did the Calzone take to bake?
What temperature was the  oven at?
I am having trouble not burning the bottoms on 60 second bake
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: schold on June 13, 2015, 09:40:28 AM
bier is altijd goed

Øl er alltid godt.
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Don Luigi on June 13, 2015, 09:56:23 AM
Thevulture: for Calzone I let the oven cool down to about 350-400*C. Maybe 90-120 seconds on the floor and about 30-60 seconds under the dome
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: thevulture on June 13, 2015, 10:03:01 AM
Thevulture: for Calzone I let the oven cool down to about 350-400*C. Maybe 90-120 seconds on the floor and about 30-60 seconds under the dome

Thanks, I'll try that when I next have pizza.
Off to make a batch of dough using your formula (the 62%) one.


Title: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Don Luigi on June 13, 2015, 10:23:19 AM
Øl er alltid godt.
When it comes to Beer the world speaks one language. Bier ist immer gut!
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Don Luigi on June 13, 2015, 10:23:56 AM

Thanks, I'll try that when I next have pizza.
Off to make a batch of dough using your formula (the 62%) one.
Let me know how it worked out for you!
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: 3pedals on June 13, 2015, 11:22:53 AM
Don't mean to hi jack this thread, but don't want to create my own.. Here is my first pizza in the Pizza Party Pizzone.. I bought the bigger one thinking I would do multiple pies catering one day, but to be honest my first make was prob 50 seconds and there is no way I can make another pie in that time.. Forgot to take an after picture because I was so hungry but here is a picture of the pizza in the oven.
Title: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Don Luigi on June 13, 2015, 12:41:16 PM
That's one healthy fire 3Pedals! Managing multiple pies with neapolitan bake times is only for the masters I guess. I think my head would explode! Anyway, for home use and 45-60 second pies, who cares?
I made some pies today as well. 24 Hour Ferment. I cut back the amount of Ischia quite a bit because of high ambient temps in Germany right now. Maybe a tad more starter again next time.
It was my son's 5th birthday Party and I was a bit stressed out by kids running around me all the time but I tried to bake without the door too like Fidel and after this first test I must say it works better for me with the door on. I am pretty sure it's got to do with the Pizzone's extra depth but I got the feeling the ratio of upper heat and floor temp was a bit out of whack for the 70x70. I  domed the pizza without the door for the last 15-20 seconds else I would have cremated the bottoms. At what +/- floor temps are you working Fidel if you read this? I usually go for approximately 480-490C. Anyway I'll try it again if I have some more time and not six totally over the top 5 year olds running around me. Just a couple photos today because no time to make photos. Playing football with the boys had priority! Now a couple of cold ones....cheers!
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: David Esq. on June 13, 2015, 01:05:22 PM
3pedals how did the wood burn?  One advantage of a bigger oven even if you cook one pie at a time is the there is more hot stone so you can launch the next pie on a stone that hasn't been cooled by the prior bake.  So far, too cool hasn't been a problem for me. Perhaps a theoretical benefit.
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: 3pedals on June 13, 2015, 02:11:14 PM
3pedals how did the wood burn?  One advantage of a bigger oven even if you cook one pie at a time is the there is more hot stone so you can launch the next pie on a stone that hasn't been cooled by the prior bake.  So far, too cool hasn't been a problem for me. Perhaps a theoretical benefit.

Don, What is your 24hr ferment recipe?? David, Wood worked great once I got it started, had a really hard time getting the fire going.. Been splitting wood the last few days but might need to get some more seasoned wood in the mean time.
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: thevulture on June 13, 2015, 02:16:28 PM
Don, What is your 24hr ferment recipe??
3pedals he's posted a few i think this is current  / fav one.

Yesterday's Pies Post with a huge hangover! Had two of my best friends at my place, wife and kids out of house - that means: Pizza, Beers and Bourbons!

My favourite formular. Fully Active Ischia 6%, 62% filtered Water, 2.7%Salt, Caputo Pizzeria. Ferment 24 hours at 21°C -  12/12 Bulk/Balls. All Pies were around 50-60 seconds in the oven.
Lovely airiness, creamy, moist and tender crumb and slight crisp outer shell of the cornicone. This is exactly how I love to have my Pies! My friends loved them too and were really into Margheritas - so I made 3! New tradition - Leftover Pizza. Whatever is left over of the ingredients goes on the last pie.

I used it last time with great results.

Maybe we should create Pizza Party owners thread to share tips and tricks instead of hijacking poor Don's thread.
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Don Luigi on June 13, 2015, 02:21:33 PM
No problem, guys! We're all here to learn from each other. This thread's not mine - it's ours....
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: f.montoya on June 13, 2015, 09:24:41 PM
That's one healthy fire 3Pedals! Managing multiple pies with neapolitan bake times is only for the masters I guess. I think my head would explode! Anyway, for home use and 45-60 second pies, who cares?
I made some pies today as well. 24 Hour Ferment. I cut back the amount of Ischia quite a bit because of high ambient temps in Germany right now. Maybe a tad more starter again next time.
It was my son's 5th birthday Party and I was a bit stressed out by kids running around me all the time but I tried to bake without the door too like Fidel and after this first test I must say it works better for me with the door on. I am pretty sure it's got to do with the Pizzone's extra depth but I got the feeling the ratio of upper heat and floor temp was a bit out of whack for the 70x70. I  domed the pizza without the door for the last 15-20 seconds else I would have cremated the bottoms. At what +/- floor temps are you working Fidel if you read this? I usually go for approximately 480-490C. Anyway I'll try it again if I have some more time and not six totally over the top 5 year olds running around me. Just a couple photos today because no time to make photos. Playing football with the boys had priority! Now a couple of cold ones....cheers!

Regarding the temps, it depends. When I was putting in pies one after the other, the floor was regulated and consistently around 850° f and the upper area was 950° f. The floor closer to the door was cooler, about 750° f and the reading from the PP mounted thermometer was reading 700° f, which I don't pay attention to anymore, except during pre-heat. But too much time between pies and the floor would get to about 920° f, which is too hot, if I kept feeding the fire. Thus I employed two techniques to avoid this. One, I let the fire die completely down during long breaks between pies(with the door off of course). And two, I brushed the floor two or three times with a very slightly damp brush and then re-check the floor temp.

Regarding your pies, they look awesome!
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: 3pedals on June 14, 2015, 03:01:30 PM
Does anyone use any sort of brush to get out of the ashes when trying to clean the floor? Also How does this hold up in the rain? Should I cover it? or can it be left outside uncovered?
Title: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: David Esq. on June 14, 2015, 07:38:13 PM
I use the metal tube and blow the ashes out. I also leave it Uncovered. Just close the chimney and door.  But i haven't had it more than a season yet.
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Don Luigi on June 15, 2015, 01:55:24 AM
I use a normal hand-brush and brush the old and cold ash out onto piece of old newspaper.
Title: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Don Luigi on June 22, 2015, 01:48:08 PM
Pizza Monday! Rainy German summer day with some tasty pies. The Oven was really hot this evening. This were are all sub 50 seconds I think. Door on except for the Calzone which was baked with door off in slightly cooled down oven. Nice dough which was what I'd call almost perfectly fermented. Usual Formular, 26 Hours fermentation time though. 62/6/2.7S/Caputo Pizzeria. Doughballs on wood which contributed to really perfect handling of the dough (thanks Craig for reminding me to try out again!). Very satisfied.
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: TXCraig1 on June 22, 2015, 03:36:20 PM
Very nice.
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: mitchjg on June 22, 2015, 03:56:13 PM
Pizza Monday! Rainy German summer day with some tasty pies. The Oven was really hot this evening. This were are all sub 50 seconds I think. Door on except for the Calzone which was baked with door off in slightly cooled down oven. Nice dough which was what I'd call almost perfectly fermented. Usual Formular, 26 Hours fermentation time though. 62/6/2.7S/Caputo Pizzeria. Doughballs on wood which contributed to really perfect handling of the dough (thanks Craig for reminding me to try out again!). Very satisfied.

Beautiful!

Can you describe the "door on" process a little bit more?  Do you mean you are keeping the door on during the bake, in between bakes, or both?  If the door is on during the bake, my imagination says that you are constantly opening and closing the door since it is only a 50 second bake - i.e. load pie, close door, open door, turn pie, close door, open door, turn pie, close door, open door, remove pie.

 That seems like a lot of open/close.  Help me understand this more.

Thanks!
Title: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Don Luigi on June 22, 2015, 04:03:46 PM
Thanks Craig and Mitch!
Mitch check that video -> pretty much my usual bake minus about 5-10 seconds doming.
http://youtu.be/767wILRpW6k
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: mitchjg on June 22, 2015, 04:11:05 PM
Very helpful.  So you really only need to give it one turn (usually, I guess).  Thanks.
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Don Luigi on June 22, 2015, 04:16:16 PM
Yeah, one turn usually.
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Neopolitan on June 22, 2015, 08:32:11 PM
WoW One turn with a open flame!

I geuss the deflector really does it's job to not char the cornicione exposed towards the flame.
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: David Esq. on June 23, 2015, 05:49:38 AM
Hmm. I may have to give that deflector a try. Do you just put it in the oven after you slide the fire over or do you keep it in the oven from the start and push it along?
Title: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Don Luigi on June 23, 2015, 07:08:19 AM
I put it in when I am pushing the fire to the side. Not the metal cross thing under the fire - the "heat shield".
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: David Esq. on June 23, 2015, 07:29:19 AM
Got it. I wasn't using it but will give it a go. Just seemed like another step. But, I bet it also does a great job keeping the embers at bay!
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Don Luigi on July 12, 2015, 02:20:47 AM
Sunday morning Pizza balling....
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Don Luigi on July 12, 2015, 05:02:14 AM
Trying out some new cheese later today
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Pab on July 12, 2015, 01:35:35 PM
Hey Guys, made some Pies again. These went down really light and were fantastic in taste and texture. 24 Hour Ferment, 4.5% Ischia, 62% Hydration, Caputo Pizzeria. Lovely Pies on a great early summer evening in Germany. Live can be so easy and so beautiful.

Excellent.No other words.
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Don Luigi on July 12, 2015, 02:52:41 PM

Excellent.No other words.

Thanks man!
Title: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Don Luigi on July 12, 2015, 02:57:48 PM
Todays Pizza! Dough was really nice. 63%/3%SD/2.7%S/Caputo Pizzeria. Fermented 18 Hours Bulk/10 Hours Balls. Had a good friend with wife and kids over here. Dolce Vita!
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: HansB on July 12, 2015, 03:19:10 PM
Beautiful pies Don Luigi!!
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Don Luigi on July 13, 2015, 03:52:35 AM

Beautiful pies Don Luigi!!
Thanks a lot. They tasted great and everybody loved them. I think I really got some consistency now and will try some more topping variations in the future.
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: aspendos on July 13, 2015, 09:03:57 AM
They look awesome Markus! Wir sollen in bad neustadt eine Pizzeria eröffnen . Der würde bestimmt gut laufen.  :D
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: 3pedals on July 13, 2015, 12:20:50 PM
Do you flour the $hit out of the bottom of the plastic dough trays to make it easier to get the doughs out? Every time I use the plastic ones, I find the dough sticks a lot to the tray and makes it very difficult to remove.
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Don Luigi on July 13, 2015, 01:12:25 PM

Do you flour the $hit out of the bottom of the plastic dough trays to make it easier to get the doughs out? Every time I use the plastic ones, I find the dough sticks a lot to the tray and makes it very difficult to remove.
thanks aspendos! 3Pedals I nowadays use a wooden sheet (Poplar) on the floor of my plastic box. In small containers it's a few drops of oil or a lot of flour.
Title: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Don Luigi on July 17, 2015, 01:07:24 AM
Time for some experiments! These Pies were done with standard AP German Flour (Type 405) - while I still prefer Caputo I was pleased to see that those came out pretty darn nice. A little more chew to the crust and not as light and also slightly more bread -like but definitely good. Dough was over -proofed a little. 18 Hour ferment with 64% Hydration and 5% Ischia (too much - should have cut it to about 3.5%). Toppings were Frutti Di Mare, with garlic and Parsley and Basil on the first. Buffalo Mozzarella with Chives and Pecorino on the second  and Capers, Olives, Anchovies and Basil on the last.
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: deb415611 on July 17, 2015, 06:42:39 AM
Time for some experiments!

beautiful experiments
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: mitchjg on July 17, 2015, 11:00:22 AM
beautiful experiments

+ 1 !

All of your pies look fantastic.  I hope I can get close!
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Don Luigi on July 18, 2015, 04:35:49 AM
Thanks Deb and Mitch!
Title: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Don Luigi on July 24, 2015, 10:33:13 AM
just made 25Kg of Dough and cut 10Kg of Mozzarella both by hand for 100 Neapolitan Pies I'll be doing together with Ben Holiday at an event this weekend. only 1 Oven...it will be interesting to say the least....
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: mitchjg on July 24, 2015, 11:12:10 AM
just made 25Kg of Dough and cut 10Kg of Mozzarella both by hand for 100 Neapolitan Pies I'll be doing together with Ben Holiday at an event this weekend. only 1 Oven...it will be interesting to say the least....

Pretty ambitious!!!!! Best of luck and have fun.  Don't forget to take a picture of each and every pie.  :P
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: schold on July 24, 2015, 11:48:42 AM
Yeah, some pictures would be great.
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Don Luigi on July 24, 2015, 12:05:40 PM
I'll do my best! we are aiming for 15-18 Pies per Hour and will be selling these in halfs (so effecticely doing up to 36 Pizze) folded on a carton plate.
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Don Luigi on July 24, 2015, 03:16:24 PM
ready for tomorrow...
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: David Esq. on July 24, 2015, 04:21:27 PM
That bin of wood all you intend to burn for all of those pies?
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Don Luigi on July 24, 2015, 04:29:52 PM
no, of course not. the oven's filled with wood and I loaded about 4 more of those bins. Plus you see more wood behind the oven about 2 of those bins.... so all in all about 8 of those bins.
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Don Luigi on July 25, 2015, 02:10:56 PM
Back home. Phew! Unfortunately the wheather was not on our side. Crazy windy, rainy, huge storm over night so not many people at the event. We baked only about 30-35 Pies but it was enough to not get out of this with a loss. Dough was pretty good in the beginning but challenging the later the day. I learned a thing or two again. Oven management was not easy but worked ok enough. Though it's hard to always maintain perfect temperature with 30 Minutes without a bake. But that's not what this oven's made for, right! Much more respect for the professional Pizza Bakers. Just snapped two-three Photos.
Now for some drinks and leftover dough bread making....
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: David Esq. on July 25, 2015, 08:10:02 PM
That stinks about the number of guests.  Did you get any complements or was it too crazy to talk to anybod?
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Simone on July 26, 2015, 03:50:11 AM
Hi Don
great support! ;D
and excellent pizza!  :drool:
the weather will improve in the next week, proceed better the next time  ;)
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Roman on July 26, 2015, 06:44:00 AM
Don,

Great looking pies! A couple of questions, what was your launch temp on the deck and how long did it take the oven to recover to your target launch temp between pies? Thanks.

Roman
Title: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Don Luigi on July 26, 2015, 02:09:35 PM
Thanks guys! Yeah we got alot of compliments. One guy was a baker and when I told him about the sourdough leavening of our dough he was very impressed! Also by the neapolitan cooking times and taste! Roman, I always try to have the floor between 430-480*C with flames rolling across the dome. If the floor is in access of 500 I'll let the flame die and have the oven cool for like 10 Minutes with an open door. But when you're baking one pie after the other the "cold" dough on the floor kinda regulates the floor temp by itself.
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Don Luigi on July 26, 2015, 02:12:04 PM
But I must confess yesterday when the oven wasn't in use for a longer time sometimes the floor was only at about 380*C - 400*C and I baked some pies more in the 2 Minute range.
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: mitchjg on July 26, 2015, 02:32:34 PM
But I must confess yesterday when the oven wasn't in use for a longer time sometimes the floor was only at about 380*C - 400*C and I baked some pies more in the 2 Minute range.

Don't worry, the VPN police were properly bribed in advance not to handcuff you and drag you away.  I am sure they came out just fine!!!
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Simone on July 27, 2015, 03:46:17 AM
the sourdough makes a delicious pizza  :chef: how long you sourdough?
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Don Luigi on July 27, 2015, 03:59:30 AM
24 Hours Ferment with Ischia Culture. A little less than 2% SD at 21-22*C.
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Don Luigi on July 27, 2015, 04:04:42 AM

Don't worry, the VPN police were properly bribed in advance not to handcuff you and drag you away.  I am sure they came out just fine!!!
I was watching over my shoulders in anxiety when I did those forbidden 2 minute Pies. I hope I do not have to go to Pizza Hell for this dreadful sins...
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: David Esq. on July 27, 2015, 06:58:04 AM
They don't care unless you say it is a Neapolitan pie. Hopefully you weren't deceiving anyone with claims of 90 second bake times for those two pies.
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Don Luigi on August 06, 2015, 04:22:21 AM
Greetings from Italy friends! Capturing a new SD Culture in the ancient olive groves of Liguria. It's becoming plenty active already. it's a beautiful place here and there's the scent of olive wood and the saltiness of the very close sea in the air. I hope I can capture this magic a little....
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: parallei on August 06, 2015, 05:53:24 PM
Greetings from Italy friends! Capturing a new SD Culture in the ancient olive groves of Liguria. It's becoming plenty active already. it's a beautiful place here and there's the scent of olive wood and the saltiness of the very close sea in the air. I hope I can capture this magic a little....

A lovely part of the world.  Enjoy!  My father's family is from an area to the east Chiavari.  My wife and I enjoyed our visits to Liguria, but the only family we could locate were in cemeteries!  A wonderful cuisine....

I've often thought about making a pizza with salsa di noci as a base.  I guess just some sort of greens as a topping?  Never got around to it though.
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Don Luigi on August 07, 2015, 09:25:26 AM

A lovely part of the world.  Enjoy!  My father's family is from an area to the east Chiavari.  My wife and I enjoyed our visits to Liguria, but the only family we could locate were in cemeteries!  A wonderful cuisine....

I've often thought about making a pizza with salsa di noci as a base.  I guess just some sort of greens as a topping?  Never got around to it though.
One of my fave places I've ever been. I have been to this region with my parents when I was a kid quite often and now return every couple years. Now first time with my kids. As italian as it gets. Great cuisine, best olive oil in the world and beautiful, rustic landscape. Great coast, beautiful beaches.
Salsa di Noci is a great idea as a pizza base - i'd maybe add some mozzarella, peccorino, salt to taste and arugula post bake. Prosciutto Crudo post bake and ricotta pre bake would fit quite well too. Time to try....
Title: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Don Luigi on August 18, 2015, 01:54:27 PM
Back from Italy - time for some good Pizza!  :o  Seriously I didn't eat even one satsifying Pizza in Italy. They were all ok at best. But Liguria isn't exactly known for its Pizzerias to be fair.
I brought some stuff with me. Some excellent Olive Oil from Liguria's endless Olive Groves, a Oliera finally, some excellent Truffle Oil and 2 bags of Gran Mugnaio Farina Per Pizza. I used the flour before last year and I remembered it to be good but I must say it's excellent and really close to Caputo Pizzeria in taste and texture. A little harder to get a caramel crust but if you see a bag of this you can buy it for sure. It's a very good flour! Formula was 62/2.7S/3.5SD/[email protected]°C. Nice handling of the dough (matured on wooden floor) and really tasty Pies. The best surely was the mushroom pie with the ligurian Olio al Tartufo. It was the bomb!
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: HansB on August 18, 2015, 02:25:07 PM
Beautiful pies!
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: schold on August 18, 2015, 03:42:32 PM
Back from Italy - time for some good Pizza!  :o  Seriously I didn't eat even one satsifying Pizza in Italy. They were all ok at best. But Liguria isn't exactly known for its Pizzerias to be fair.

That's interesting to hear, Don. Actually, I had planned to ask you about your experiences with pizza in Italy. We ate quite a bit of pies in Sardinia, and while all were good, only one place come close to the Neapolitan style. For example, it was the only place which used fresh mozzarella - all the other used the dry kind. In fact, I often think it was a different type of cheese altogether.
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: TXCraig1 on August 18, 2015, 04:19:34 PM
Excellent pizza!
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: parallei on August 18, 2015, 04:30:56 PM
Excellent pizza!

+1

Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Don Luigi on August 18, 2015, 05:11:47 PM
Thank you guys! These were enjoyable for sure!
Schold - same problem with dried mozzarella on all the pies I ate in holiday - to make things worse, under-proofed dough with crackery consistency and pale appearance on most. I love ligurian cuisine: The fish dishes, Pesto Genovese, Salsa di Noci, ligurian bread etc. but the pies were really not that good.  The Foccacia at the bakery were awesome though. Next time I'm there I will stay with fish, frutti di mare, Focaccia and Pasta. Funny, I was thinking about Sardegna for our next holiday the coming year. I hear they have a great, meat-heavy and rustic cuisine. That or Amalfi coast.
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: parallei on August 18, 2015, 05:25:43 PM

Next time I'm there I will stay with fish, frutti di mare, Focaccia and Pasta.........

Don't forget the Focaccia di Recco and Farinata for other "flat foods"!
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: JD on August 18, 2015, 08:21:23 PM
Wow Don, those pizzas are phenomenal! That mushroom is absolutely perfect!
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Jackitup on August 19, 2015, 12:20:15 AM
Obere Kerbe Bruder

jon
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Don Luigi on August 19, 2015, 03:02:56 AM
Don't forget the Focaccia di Recco and Farinata for other "flat foods"!

You're right. Farinata is great.Haven't tried Focaccia di Reco but the spinach-filled Tortas have been another favourite!
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Don Luigi on August 19, 2015, 03:03:38 AM
Thanks for the nice comments, friends! JD, great to read you again. Haven't seen you on here for quite a while!
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Don Luigi on August 26, 2015, 02:00:28 PM
New Pies! For the first time I used the SD Culture I captured myself in Liguria/Italy. It's a potent culture. I had to put the dough to about 60°F right after balling cause the bulk was already pretty much fiilled with air/well fermented after 12 Hours at 68°F. I think I used 4.5% Liguria Culture, 61% Water, Caputo Pizzeria. 24 Hours ferment in total. Very satsified with results of the dough and new toppings as well. One was a Cherry tomatoes (marinated with EVOO and Garlic)/Buffalo Mozz/Pecorino - Arugula postbake.
The other Buffalo Mozz/Pecorino/EVOO -  Arugula, Proscuitto Cotto, italian Salami and more Oil postbake - delicious and I love the visuals of that pie! Have a nice evening/day guys!

Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Simone on August 26, 2015, 05:05:32 PM
great  :drool: :drool: :drool:
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: schold on August 27, 2015, 04:59:37 PM
Thanks for keeping this place alive, Don! Your pies are looking really great and I'm also impressed by the consistency.
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Don Luigi on September 07, 2015, 01:19:12 PM
My wife had a couple of her work colleagues invited on last Friday and I baked some pies for them. They were really into them and swallowed them in delight! It was my own Liguria SD Culture at 3%, 24 Hour Ferment. Caputo Pizzeria, 62% Hydration, 2.7% Salt. I didn't snap many photos only a couple. Dough Fermentation was pretty much perfect. Dough balls opened themselves without being out of control. Maturing the dough on wooden floor. Taste wise they were very good.
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: pizapizza on September 07, 2015, 06:15:57 PM
looks nice! my oven should be here in a few days. how long do you preheat for? how did the oven hold up for the catering gig you did, would you recommend it?
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: TXCraig1 on September 07, 2015, 07:51:54 PM
Looks like you have that little oven figured out. Very nice.
Title: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Don Luigi on September 08, 2015, 01:47:00 PM
thank you craig!
Pizapizza - I preheat about 40-45 Minutes. Start with the fire in the middle then after about 20 Minutes put it to the side. Wait until the floor is about 480*C and always bake with flames rolling across the dome.
It worked quite nice for the catering. Let your floor cool every now and then with open door for 5 minutes and keep the door closed if you don't bake for longer periods / it keeps the heat in.
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Ave Maria on September 08, 2015, 02:45:32 PM
Don Luigi,

Thanks for sharing about your Pizza Party Oven. I ordered one Friday and hope it will be here In a few days.

Any advice you can give on the first fire is greatly appreciated. Your pizza's look Great! Your friends are probably thankful you made that purchase too!

Stay warm,

Marsha
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Raffa on September 14, 2015, 12:55:48 PM
Hi Don,

The pies you post look amazing.

I am at dead ends between choosing to a built-in WFO or a the Pizza Party. So from your usage so far can a Pizza Party replace the built-in? And is it durable to last for years lets say?
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Ave Maria on September 17, 2015, 11:24:46 AM
Don Luigi~ can you convert this ingredient for me

3/5 grams of fresh yeast= how much in ounces?

Thanks newbie here
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: vtsteve on September 18, 2015, 12:32:07 AM
3/5 grams of fresh yeast= how much in ounces?

You've written "3/5 grams" in two different posts; for 1700g of flour, it's almost certainly 3.5 (three and a half) grams, not 3/5 (0.6 grams).

Google will do this conversion for you; just type in "3.5g to oz" in the Google search box.
Here's a link to the resulting conversion:  https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=3.5g%20to%20oz (https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=3.5g%20to%20oz)

3.5 g = 0.123459 oz. (weight)

3/5 g = 0.6 g = 0.0211644 oz. (weight)

Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Don Luigi on September 22, 2015, 03:22:43 AM
Sorry for not replying - I've been away for a week. vtsteve helped you already with the conversion. Thanks! I am a little out of practice with commercial yeast since I am using Sourdough Starter Cultures since quite some time now but I want to go back to try some fresh yeast pies again soon...
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: schold on September 22, 2015, 02:34:56 PM
I look forward to hearing your views on SD vs fresh yeast, don.
Title: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Don Luigi on September 23, 2015, 02:52:19 PM
Today's Pies.
Dolcedo SD [email protected]%, 63%Aqua, 2.7%Salt, 20 Hours Ferment at 18*C.
New-Topping-Try-Out-Time. Figs/Mozzarella Di Bufala/Gorgonzola/Parmesano and Prosciutto Di Parma after the bake. Wow! It tasted awesome.
Also I messed with a new Fire Setup something similar which both Craig and Omid described - it worked out surprisingly well in my small oven but I need a little more time to get it absolutely right. The dough was very light and easy on the stomach today. I love that. Have a nice time my friends!
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Breadscience on September 28, 2015, 02:33:11 PM
What  process you use to make your dough?
Title: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Don Luigi on September 29, 2015, 02:45:03 PM
What  process you use to make your dough?

I follow a very similiar process to what Craig describes in his Neapolitan Garage Thread - actually I am hugely inspired by his Pizza and his workflow. Thank you, man! The differences: I ferment only for 22-26 Hours total and I ferment at about 21*C  room temperature.
48 Hours before I bake I pull my SD Culture from the fridge let it come to room temperature and then feed it. It will become active over night. The next day about 4-5 hours before I mix the dough the culture gets fed again. After 4 Hours it usually doubled in size and gets bubbly. This is the time I take (depending on ambient temperature) 3-6% of the culture (the amount of flour being 100%). I measure 61-63% filtered Water and 2.7-3% Salt. Dissolve the salt in water. Once the salt is dissolved I add the amount of SD Culture and mix it in with a whisk until it's really foamy and frothy. Now I add the flour little by little until I have a shaggy not too sticky mass of dough. I let that rest for about 30 Minutes. After that I knead some more and perform a couple of stretch and folds until I get a pretty smooth dough. Let that rest for another 10 Minutes and repeat until the dough is really, really smooth, elastic and not sticky at all. Bulk Ferment over night for about 10-14 Hours and in the morning I ball the dough to individual 260 gr Balls. Ferment this for another 10-12 and they should be ready to bake. I ferment the individual balls in a box with a wooden floor which makes the handling of the dough very easy and let's you go with higher hydrations without a problem.
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Breadscience on September 29, 2015, 03:02:06 PM
Thanks for detailed answer!
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: TXCraig1 on September 29, 2015, 04:37:42 PM
I follow a very similiar process to what Craig describes in his Neapolitan Garage Thread - actually I am hugely inspired by his Pizza and his workflow. Thank you, man!

If I can claim any credit in helping you get to those beautiful pies, I'm greatly honored.  ;D
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Don Luigi on October 11, 2015, 02:25:01 PM
I wanted to experiment a little with Cake Yeast/Fresh Yeast vs Sourdough and since my last sourdough Pies were terribly underfermented ( I definitely need to find a good SD Workflow in the colder season finally!) I thought I'd give it a go this weekend so we are on the safe side and don't need to call the chinese restaurant. I made three doughs:

1) Ischia SD 4.5% 24 Hour Ferment at Ambient Temperature
2) CY 0.06% 24 Hour Ferment at Ambient
3) VPN Style Dough with 0.4% CY and 7 Hour Ferment at Ambient

My conclusions:
The 24 Hour Fresh Yeast Pies are optically almost indistinguishable from the SD Pies. Unfortunately my SD Dough was slightly underfemented again (but not much and definitely usable). Also the 24 Hour Yeast Pies had great oven spring and good handling of the dough and a good texture. It's definitely a good alternative to SD though the taste is missing that dimension that I only get from SD and the texture of the SD Pies is simply softer and lighter and handling of the dough is superior with SD. But I was suprised how good the 24 Hour Yeast Pies were all in all. They looked great and baked great in the oven! But I'll definitely stick to my SD Cultures and need to get them fully active in winter now as well.
The 6 Hour Yeast is really only for emergency cases. That dough was also maybe only for 2 Hour usable then it just had too much gas inside. I reballed that dough balls to one big one and I am baking bread with it right now.
Here are some pics:
1) 6 Hour Yeast Marinara
2) 24 Hour Yeast Margherita
3) 24 Hour Ischia Margherita
4) 24 Hour Yeast Buffalo Mozz and marinated cherry tomatoes
5) 24 Hour Ischia Proscuitto Funghi (looks so chaotic becasue I shared with my son and he didn't want Mushrooms so one half with and one without + an almost failed launch...)

Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: schold on October 12, 2015, 06:05:31 PM
Dear Don, like a true artisan, you always get great results. It doesn't matter if it is a home oven in self cleaning-mode or a wood-fired oven, sourdough or cake yeast, short or long fermentation time  ;D
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: wolver on October 13, 2015, 01:43:47 AM
nice pizzas Don  :drool:
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Don Luigi on October 13, 2015, 03:51:38 PM
Thank you guys!
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Don Luigi on October 31, 2015, 10:53:35 AM
Friends,

made some Pies yesterday. Ben Holiday from the Forum here came over for a visit. These Pies were great. Some of my best. Formula with Caputo Pizzeria. 62%/2.7S/5.5%SD (my own Dolcedo Culture). Fermented in bulk for 12 Hours at about 21°C and another 12 Hours at about 24°C in Balls. I made the Rosa Pie Dylan Style with Pistachios post bake and a little bit of Mozzarella. I didn't use rosemary though but added some Pistachio Oil after the bake. Delicious!
I "cured" my sluggish SD culture by adding a little bit of sugar when I first fed it after taking it out of the fridge. Worked really well and the Culture became alot more active again. Not quite as active as in summer time but  enough to ferment the dough in an appropriate manner.
Have a nice weekend ye all!

Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: IIFYMpizza on November 03, 2015, 07:17:12 AM
Those are just stunning Don ! very impressive
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: mbrulato on November 03, 2015, 07:35:30 AM
Wow, Don.  I don't know why I haven't read through this thread sooner.  You are a true pizza artist!  Your pies are beautiful.
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: SAUZER.ITALY on November 04, 2015, 06:08:20 AM
Bravo Don  :D :D :chef: :chef:
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Don Luigi on November 04, 2015, 07:11:39 AM
thanks alot guys!
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Don Luigi on November 09, 2015, 02:47:19 AM
My SD Culture is back to old activity level! Made some pies this weekend with my go to Formular and while these might be visually not the most impressive, taste and texture wise these were stunning. As light and airy as it gets I guess....
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: SAUZER.ITALY on November 09, 2015, 09:31:40 AM
Bravo Don  ! the important thing is that the pizza is coming good , the aesthetic has no way related !
:D
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: schold on November 09, 2015, 11:15:15 AM
I believe that how a pizza looks may often be indicative to how it will taste. Often, but of course not always. However, presentation is in itself of some importance. With the said, I guess it is only natural that in a forum such as this, where only the visual modality comes into play, that (too much) emphasis will be placed on appearance.

The pies look nice. Btw, Don, I'm trying your "CY 0.06% 24 Hour Ferment at Ambient" from #370 today.
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Don Luigi on November 09, 2015, 11:47:50 AM
Thanks Renato and Schold for your comments and yes I agree, Schold - visual characteristics of the crust and balance of the toppings are of course indicators of taste characterics. Sometimes however you can obtain desirable visual characteristics in more eye-pleasing manner than other times. With my latest pies -  I think I have done visually more pleasing ones before but as I said taste wise these were really nice!
Schold, eager to see how that formula worked out for you!
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Simone on November 09, 2015, 05:44:37 PM
Very nice Don!!! :drool:
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Tricia1quinn on November 24, 2015, 11:51:54 AM
 Hi! I'm new to the forum and just unpacked my pizza oven. I'm reading all the posts with a Pizza Party ovens. I was hoping you could tell me about your dough? Did you buy your starter or make your own? And what dies 63% mean? Thanks for the help!   :)
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Don Luigi on November 25, 2015, 09:00:31 AM

Hi! I'm new to the forum and just unpacked my pizza oven. I'm reading all the posts with a Pizza Party ovens. I was hoping you could tell me about your dough? Did you buy your starter or make your own? And what dies 63% mean? Thanks for the help!   :)

Hi,
there's alot of Info about my dough in the thread! Basically, I am using Caputo Pizzeria Flour, 62% Hydration (more or less), 24 Hour total Ferment at around 21*C  (approx 12 Hours Bulk and 12 Hours Balls), 2.7% Sea Salt and 3.5%-7% Starter depending on ambient temperature and activity level of my starter. I am using both an Ischia Starter I bought and a Starter I captured myself in Italy.
The percentage numbers are percentage of the total Flour - meaning: let's assume I have a formula with 1000gr of Flour I'd use 620gr of water, 35-70gr of SD Starter, and 27gr of Salt.
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Don Luigi on January 03, 2016, 01:34:05 PM
Saputo in the snow was the motto of the day! Baking in heavy snowfall here in Germany! I got my Biscotto Saputo Floor from the great Simone/Pizza Party the other day and tried it out today. I am loving it! Baking is much more relaxed with it! No need to dome (I still dome the last 5-10 sec to give the crust its final colour) since it is almost impossible to burn the bottom. On the first Margh I preheated the floor to 530*C/986*F and the bake was at around the 45 sec mark max. No bottom char and ultra-soft Pie. Almost too soft! On the next Pies I aimed for around 60-70 second bakes and 480*C/900*F range for the floor to give the cornicone an ever so slight crispiness. Worked very nicely! The floor is a really great addition to the Pizza Party Oven if you are into Neapolitan Style! My usual formular with Ischia SD at 6% and 24 Hour Room Temp Ferment. Dough was not perfect but definitely very usable.
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Ben Holiday on January 03, 2016, 03:28:58 PM
stunning pies like always! The first Margh looks very awesome and tasty!
can´t wait for the next Pizza session to come!  8)
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: ponzu on January 04, 2016, 01:03:42 AM
Lovely. Just lovely. Very tempted by the Saputto looking at your pies.
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: JD on January 04, 2016, 01:08:19 PM
That first margherita is stunning!
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: sub on January 04, 2016, 01:40:44 PM
That first margherita is stunning!

 ^^^

Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: TXCraig1 on January 04, 2016, 01:42:30 PM
I prefer the 2nd.  ;D
Title: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Don Luigi on January 04, 2016, 01:44:26 PM
Thanks guys! Strictly aesthetically speaking I prefer the first too but taste and texture wise I am with Craig - the 2nd was the better tasting Pizza!
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: SAUZER.ITALY on January 05, 2016, 05:15:35 AM
Bravo Don !!!! Great , the first pizza  is by Oscar  :drool: , a lot of good cooking with SAPUTO, definitely is a touch of perfection in cooking . :pizza:
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Simone on January 07, 2016, 10:24:58 AM
Excellent pizzas Don :drool: :drool:
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Protoolskaiser on January 07, 2016, 03:12:48 PM
your Pizzas look great! Möchte man sofort essen.
Gruss, Detlef.
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: pizzarust on January 13, 2016, 10:42:26 PM
Hello Don L & JD. I've had my Pizzone for a little over a month.  What can you guys tell me about the Biscotto Saputo bricks? What are they, and how do they differ from the bricks that came w/my Pizzone? Sorry for the thread jack, but thanks in advance!!
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: ponzu on January 13, 2016, 11:07:11 PM
Pizza rust,

No personal experience but the principle is simple. Biscotto have less conductivity so less bottom burning.

If underskirt burning is your issue, boscotto are the answer.
(The pizza party does tend to burn the bottom before the top in my experience.)
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Don Luigi on January 14, 2016, 07:09:23 AM
Like Ponzu said:
With the Saputo Floor you can go for higher temps without risking of burning the bottom. you can have great results with the original floor too, but Saputo makes life easier...:-)
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: TXCraig1 on January 14, 2016, 08:36:54 AM
Keep in mind that the reverse is also true - if your bottoms are too light or right where you want them, changing to a less conductive deck will make things worse.
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: pizzarust on January 14, 2016, 07:39:41 PM
Thank you, everyone.
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Don Luigi on January 20, 2016, 03:13:51 PM
second bake with the saputo deck! it bakes some very even coloured Pies - maybe I left em in the oven a little too long now and then since the new floor needs a couple of workflow adjustments but when everything is balanced it bakes some incredible soft and beautiful bottoms!
this was my usual formular (the dough was under fermented unfortunately - pulled my sd too late from the fridge) but higher Hydration (64%).
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: TXCraig1 on January 20, 2016, 03:32:55 PM
Looking really good - as always. Are you still baking with the fire on the side and the door on? What was the bake time on the last couple pictured? Did the new deck change the bake time?
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Don Luigi on January 20, 2016, 03:48:22 PM
Thanks Craig! I found the Saputo floor needs to be more saturated with heat. I baked actually 5 Pies today - the later Pies had the best balance between top and bottom with the original floor it is pretty much the opposite - the more I pies I baked with it the more I needed to let the deck cool in between bakes because bottoms became pretty dark. Bake time was in the 60-80 sec range though I didn't time them and I could have pulled some earlier. Still Fire left side, heat shield and door on. I checked the floor temp on some bakes and got the best results in the 530*C range! That's 50*C more than with the old deck. You kinda need to readjust the balance between top and bottom heat with the Saputo, but if done right the pies are definitely softer and more elegant with the new floor!
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: ponzu on January 20, 2016, 03:48:45 PM

second bake with the saputo deck! it bakes some very even coloured Pies - maybe I left em in the oven a little too long now and then since the new floor needs a couple of workflow adjustments but when everything is balanced it bakes some incredible soft and beautiful bottoms!
this was my usual formular (the dough was under fermented unfortunately - pulled my sd too late from the fridge) but higher Hydration (64%).

Those look perfect to me.

How did you determine they were underfermented?
Title: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Don Luigi on January 20, 2016, 03:54:14 PM
Those look perfect to me.

How did you determine they were underfermented?

Thanks Ponzu!
The dough felt a little lifeless and had not the oven spring and puff compared to a perfect ferment. But still the dough was very usable of course.
edit: This is something I always struggle with during winter time and with SD. It's so much more sensitive to fluctuations in temperature than commercial yeast.
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: robertscalchi on January 20, 2016, 04:30:06 PM
Your Neapolitan pies have that perfect small leopard in char on the cornicione. I got my pizza party 5 months ago and learned very quickly within the first week that the fire has to be off to the side and my pies typically like to cook at an oven temperature of 680 degrees with a floor temperature of 730 otherwise my bottoms burn too fast. I typically have to dome the rest of the pie directly under the fire to get close to the char that I want. I'm trying to get closer to the pies I made at Amanos in Ridgewood New Jersey where I was trained. The pies were light and airy and had very small leoparding on them. It is my last picture. You can clearly see the distinct type of leoparding from my other pies with the pizza party. So is this saputo floor supposed to help with over cooking/ burning  the bottoms on the pizza party oven?
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Don Luigi on January 20, 2016, 04:40:54 PM

Your Neapolitan pies have that perfect small leopard in char on the cornicione. I got my pizza party 5 months ago and learned very quickly within the first week that the fire has to be off to the side and my pies typically like to cook at an oven temperature of 680 degrees with a floor temperature of 730 otherwise my bottoms burn too fast. I typically have to dome the rest of the pie directly under the fire to get close to the char that I want. I'm trying to get closer to the pies I made at Amanos in Ridgewood New Jersey where I was trained. The pies were light and airy and had very small leoparding on them. So is this saputo floor supposed to help with over cooking the bottoms on the pizza party oven?
Your pies look very good man! The Saputo will definitely help you when you have problems of burning the bottom. It's quite a bit less conductive than the original floor.
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: robertscalchi on January 20, 2016, 04:54:15 PM
Your pies from Jan 3rd are perfect. That to me is what a true np should look like. I too have used the Ischia and camaldoli in the past in my kitchen oven and love the ischia it's a potent powder keg with loads of flavor. I froze the mother for more than 3 months and it died off on me. Need to order more. Been researching other yeasts in the italian Austrian area I know more exists. For giggles I've been playing around with Belgian wheat ale beer yeast lately. Been getting some interesting peppery notes in dough lately. I really love the steaks and veggies coming out of this pizza party and have been baking breads too. Anyway I hope we will be following each others progress for perfection.  8) :pizza: glad I found a mentor with the pizza party. Will be in touch more often. Good luck and keep baking.
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: robertscalchi on January 20, 2016, 05:03:34 PM
Hey Don I'm curious about your cheese placement do you cube slice tear or all three whichever mood suits you? I noticed your cheese dollops melt very bubble uniform if you know what I mean?.  I've done this with both fiore di latte and buffala. But never consistently.
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Don Luigi on January 20, 2016, 05:30:47 PM
Robert, I cut the mozz in either cubes or stripes. I have been slicing to smaller pieces lately which melt more into the sauce. But honestly I don't know if I didn't like the only partially melted bigger pieces a little more. I using Galbani Mozzarella or Brimi Fior Di Latte most of the time.
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Obsauced on January 21, 2016, 08:42:42 AM
second bake with the saputo deck! it bakes some very even coloured Pies - maybe I left em in the oven a little too long now and then since the new floor needs a couple of workflow adjustments but when everything is balanced it bakes some incredible soft and beautiful bottoms!
this was my usual formular (the dough was under fermented unfortunately - pulled my sd too late from the fridge) but higher Hydration (64%).

the bottom is a work of art! stunning pies
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Don Luigi on January 21, 2016, 02:06:57 PM

the bottom is a work of art! stunning pies
Thanks alot man! The Saputo sure makes it easy...
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: David Esq. on January 21, 2016, 03:14:11 PM
Are you doomed to always have a soft bottom with those stones? Can you cook at non Neapolitan temps and have the bottom cooked brown?
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: David Esq. on January 21, 2016, 03:15:21 PM
To that question I wonder if one can bake on a Saputo "pizza stone"  so that you would not have to replace the bricks to get the effect.
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: ponzu on January 21, 2016, 04:17:58 PM

Are you doomed to always have a soft bottom with those stones? Can you cook at non Neapolitan temps and have the bottom cooked brown?

Interestingly I have found that the imbalance between top and bottom heat is even more noticeable for lower temp longer bakes. I am really looking forward to baking my NYC crunchy pies on biscotto saputto.
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: mitchjg on January 21, 2016, 04:59:07 PM
Are you doomed to always have a soft bottom with those stones? Can you cook at non Neapolitan temps and have the bottom cooked brown?

These pies were cooked with the floor in the 650 - 750 range.  I happened to take a photo of the cheese pie bottom.  The bottom was sufficiently browned and definitely had a "crunch" when cutting it with the pizza wheel.  I am still working on learning how to best bake with these tiles.  If I remember correctly, I had little to no flame when launching the pie.  I also moved it to the very front of the oven, with the door open, for the last minute to let the bottom cook more with less action on the top. 

So, no, I do not think one is doomed to have a soft bottom at non-Neapolitan temperatures.  But, there is some work and timing involved to try to nail it - I am not there (yet, I hope) but I got close.

http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=26286.msg409733#msg409733

Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: ponzu on January 21, 2016, 07:22:58 PM
 Mitch,

Seeing this picture I think the answer to the original question is definitively "no." That pie looks awesome! And very New York.
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Jeslan on January 25, 2016, 08:53:55 AM
Saputo in the snow was the motto of the day! Baking in heavy snowfall here in Germany! I got my Biscotto Saputo Floor from the great Simone/Pizza Party the other day and tried it out today. I am loving it! Baking is much more relaxed with it! No need to dome (I still dome the last 5-10 sec to give the crust its final colour) since it is almost impossible to burn the bottom. On the first Margh I preheated the floor to 530*C/986*F and the bake was at around the 45 sec mark max. No bottom char and ultra-soft Pie. Almost too soft! On the next Pies I aimed for around 60-70 second bakes and 480*C/900*F range for the floor to give the cornicone an ever so slight crispiness. Worked very nicely! The floor is a really great addition to the Pizza Party Oven if you are into Neapolitan Style! My usual formular with Ischia SD at 6% and 24 Hour Room Temp Ferment. Dough was not perfect but definitely very usable.
Hi Don
I have also looked at the new floor tiles from Simone/Pizza Party.
I struggle a bit with burnt pizza bottoms, especially if the oven has been baking for a longer time (over 2 hours). I have tried to follow your advice, opening the door for a couple of minutes, and only bake with flames in the dome (feeding the fire a new small piece of wood, after pulling out a pizza).
I wonder if the Biscotto Saputo Floor could help me?
Could you describe your new purchase a bit more?  :D
Thanks

/jesper   
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Icelandr on January 26, 2016, 10:52:19 AM
Thank You Don Luigi!

I have read and re-read your thread on the Pizza Party oven and although you didn't know it you convinced me!
Last night I ordered my own Pizza Party oven, 70x70, in Glorious red, and added the Biscotto Saputo tiles as you suggested. I look forward to trying it out and learning to manage the fire!

Thanks for your posts, I will continue to read and learn.

Greg Stephenson
Gabriola Island
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Don Luigi on January 28, 2016, 02:26:54 AM

Hi Don
I have also looked at the new floor tiles from Simone/Pizza Party.
I struggle a bit with burnt pizza bottoms, especially if the oven has been baking for a longer time (over 2 hours). I have tried to follow your advice, opening the door for a couple of minutes, and only bake with flames in the dome (feeding the fire a new small piece of wood, after pulling out a pizza).
I wonder if the Biscotto Saputo Floor could help me?
Could you describe your new purchase a bit more?  :D
Thanks

/jesper

Jesper, if you struggle with burnt bottoms the Saputo will be your cure. I find they need to be preheated longer and hotter (I roughly went for 480*C on the old floor vs more like 530*C with Saputo Tiles) but there's no risk of bottom burning with the Saputo floor. I just baked two times with it but a third time will follow this weekend. So, watch this channel ;-)
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Don Luigi on January 28, 2016, 02:28:15 AM

Thank You Don Luigi!

I have read and re-read your thread on the Pizza Party oven and although you didn't know it you convinced me!
Last night I ordered my own Pizza Party oven, 70x70, in Glorious red, and added the Biscotto Saputo tiles as you suggested. I look forward to trying it out and learning to manage the fire!

Thanks for your posts, I will continue to read and learn.

Greg Stephenson
Gabriola Island

That's great to hear and I am sure you won't regret! Let us know you experience with the oven!
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: schold on January 30, 2016, 05:01:33 AM
I prefer the 2nd.  ;D

As much as it pains me, I'm with Craig on this one  ;D
Title: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Don Luigi on January 30, 2016, 05:56:09 AM
As much as it pains me, I'm with Craig on this one  ;D

why the pain, schold?
Personally, having eaten both, the second tasted better while the looks of the first is still strictly visually more appealing to me...
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: schold on January 30, 2016, 03:58:50 PM
why the pain, schold?

You aint got it from me, but dude's Swedish :o.

I'm just kidding as usual...
Title: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Don Luigi on January 30, 2016, 06:18:22 PM
New Pies. Third bake with the Saputo Floor. I love it! Those bottoms come out nice very easily! I have my usual wintertime sd activity problems though. This time Dolcedo Culture @7%, 65%Hydration (I used too much bench flour), Caputo Pizzeria. 26 Hour ferment @ambient temp. The Saputo really shines with very hot temps (500*C +) and bake times under 60 seconds. I had guests, they loved those pies. Prosciutto Pizza with Artichokes was the winner Pie tonight!Having some Bourbon, cheers!
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: ponzu on January 30, 2016, 10:55:21 PM
The upskirt on that pie is a thing of beauty.

Enjoy your bourbon!
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: psedillo on January 31, 2016, 01:27:27 AM
New Pies. Third bake with the Saputo Floor. I love it! Those bottoms come out nice very easily! I have my usual wintertime sd activity problems though. This time Dolcedo Culture @7%, 65%Hydration (I used too much bench flour), Caputo Pizzeria. 26 Hour ferment @ambient temp. The Saputo really shines with very hot temps (500*C +) and bake times under 60 seconds. I had guests, they loved those pies. Prosciutto Pizza with Artichokes was the winner Pie tonight!Having some Bourbon, cheers!

Don Luigi,

I heavily debated going with the Saputo bricks when I placed the order. Your results look great. My ultimate goal is to make Neapolitan pies. In your opinion is it worth the money to order the replacement bricks?

Paul
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Don Luigi on January 31, 2016, 12:09:39 PM

Don Luigi,

I heavily debated going with the Saputo bricks when I placed the order. Your results look great. My ultimate goal is to make Neapolitan pies. In your opinion is it worth the money to order the replacement bricks?

Paul

Hey Paul,
the original floor bakes perfectly fine Neapolitan Pizza. The Saputo will make your life easier though as it's less conductive and can be used with very high temps without any risk of bottom burning...
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: TXCraig1 on February 02, 2016, 09:00:48 AM
As much as it pains me, I'm with Craig on this one  ;D

I'm sorry I put you in that position.  :-D
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: TXCraig1 on February 02, 2016, 09:28:51 AM
In addition to preferring the more even browning and less spotting, to me it doesn't look like your typical pie with a very even bake. If I didn't know better, I'd say it was baked in a Blackstone that has such intense heat from directly above. It's very common in Blackstone pies to see a relatively dark band around the top of the cornicione and a light edge.
Title: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Don Luigi on February 02, 2016, 11:45:19 AM
In addition to preferring the more even browning and less spotting, to me it doesn't look like your typical pie with a very even bake. If I didn't know better, I'd say it was baked in a Blackstone that has such intense heat from directly above. It's very common in Blackstone pies to see a relatively dark band around the top of the cornicione and a light edge.
It could very well be possible that on the first pie I had a more intense top heat going. I think it was the second pie I baked on the Saputo and maybe I was kinda compensating for the less conductive floor. Now I know I need to go higher temp on the Saputo and also go for a more intense saturation of heat thereon, which will result in a very even bake with beautiful bottoms.
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: italdream on February 02, 2016, 02:29:04 PM
I have to give it to Pizza Party that offering the option of biscotto saputo with their little contraption was a great move. Very enticing. Don Luigi your pizzas look superlative. I am sure that they tasted as good as they looked.
I have always had a weak spot for pizzas with really fast baking time.
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: robertscalchi on February 04, 2016, 06:05:58 PM
Wow that NY pie kind of reminds me of Sallus appiza di Fara's or joe and pats.
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: robertscalchi on February 05, 2016, 08:57:34 PM
Those pies astetic wise kooks like they would beat the sh*t out of da michele or sorbillos :drool:. I'm waking up my Belgian ale starter tonight from the deep freeze and firing up the oven tomorrow. Really need to reorder the ischia and camadoli. What starter are you using again?
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: robertscalchi on February 05, 2016, 09:11:56 PM
Hey Don sometimes what I will do to wake up a culture. I will either heat up filtered water in a microwave for 1 minute and mix into the culture plus flour.  I check the water temp with the in fared to make sure it's under 125 degrees or I'll put the cultures in the oven next to the light bulb.or I'll put them on the furnace until they rise. Funny story one night I fell asleep next to the furnace and woke up the SD was flowing all through the vent covers and knocked thd furnace out sine the gas ports got covered in sd. Had to clean them out
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: robertscalchi on February 05, 2016, 09:23:37 PM
Hey don? Would you be willing to dry sell and ship the ligura culture? I don't know when I will be going back the near future. I have been all over northern  and middle italy at least 5 times. Last time on my honeymoon in 2009 I was in sorrento just across Mt vesuvius and Naples and shamefully at the time wasn't into the pizza fever I am now. Missed out on all Naples greats. Had a pie in LA Scala Milan before I left and that's when my fire was reignited from my affair as a kid. I don't think the italian government will let me back in the country...lol I stiffed them on 2 speeding tickets on the autostrade between Florence and Rome and floracne got me with their Zona limits da no car camera bs...lol
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Don Luigi on February 08, 2016, 01:33:08 AM

Hey don? Would you be willing to dry sell and ship the ligura culture? I don't know when I will be going back the near future. I have been all over northern  and middle italy at least 5 times. Last time on my honeymoon in 2009 I was in sorrento just across Mt vesuvius and Naples and shamefully at the time wasn't into the pizza fever I am now. Missed out on all Naples greats. Had a pie in LA Scala Milan before I left and that's when my fire was reignited from my affair as a kid. I don't think the italian government will let me back in the country...lol I stiffed them on 2 speeding tickets on the autostrade between Florence and Rome and floracne got me with their Zona limits da no car camera bs...lol

Thanks for the nice words! How is the common procedure of drying a culture? I'll look into that and can send some dried dolcedo culture to anyone who wants and covers the postal costs...
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: sub on February 08, 2016, 05:40:14 AM
http://yumarama.com/2624/drying-your-starter/

 ;)
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Don Luigi on February 08, 2016, 01:21:28 PM
Thanks Sub!
Title: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Don Luigi on February 09, 2016, 01:25:39 PM
just a quick post. Made some pies in a heavy, rainy storm here in Germany. Made the oven hard to control due to the howling wind but I won, ha! Really good dough, highest hydration I did in a long time and very nice ferment! 66% Hydration, Caputo Pizzeria, 8% Ischia, 24 Hours. 10 in Balls. That Margh was 40 seconds max in a blistering hot oven. I didn't measure but around 550*C if I had to guess. Almost too dark of course - but I like that ;-) Bottom was spot on! Later I let the oven cool and made some 70-90 second pies - no photos, just a crumb shot...
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: sub on February 09, 2016, 02:07:29 PM
That margharita looks delicious !
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: schold on February 09, 2016, 02:30:12 PM
 :) 
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: ponzu on February 09, 2016, 06:49:48 PM
That Marg is dramatic and beautiful.

You nailed is as usual Don Luigi!
Title: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Don Luigi on February 10, 2016, 06:55:38 AM
Thank you guys! I love this place where you can call a Pizza "dramatic" and everybody will know what you're saying without any raised eyebrows. Thanks!
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: SAUZER.ITALY on February 10, 2016, 08:13:24 AM
wow !! Bravo Don !! very nice margherita  ^^^
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: robertscalchi on February 11, 2016, 06:28:37 PM
Wow that pie looks like an untamed leopard. Awesome just awesome. I actually don't know the procedure for drying I might have to ask ed wood of sd international. I know he has special dehydration equipment for his production. I appreciate the sharing and would be happy to pay postage.
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: robertscalchi on February 11, 2016, 06:43:03 PM
Hey don I know there are bread and pizza formulas around here for measuring starter percentages salt and hydration but how do you do it? I have never subscribed to formulas just because I didn't want to overanalyse the situation. But i would like to develop a benchmark for consistency incase i want to run a small business. I just typically get a starter active and get it to double by two thirds. Pour in filtered water, mix in some salt to taste, add more water and flour for enough to make 6-10 dough balls depending. Bulk rise for 2 hrs at room temp. Punch down and scrap into balls and refridgerate for 2 days. Some cultures I have are unpreductable with rise times.  In the past my ischia was always predictable. 4 hour rises at room temp or 2-3 days in fridge. So how do you calculate?
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: robertscalchi on February 11, 2016, 06:47:11 PM
Oh BTW sometimes my starter may in excess of 25 to 35% of the bulk.  :P hate to see good starter go down the drain
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: TXCraig1 on February 11, 2016, 07:16:13 PM
:)

 :-D
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: TXCraig1 on February 11, 2016, 07:17:38 PM
just a quick post. Made some pies in a heavy, rainy storm here in Germany. Made the oven hard to control due to the howling wind but I won, ha! Really good dough, highest hydration I did in a long time and very nice ferment! 66% Hydration, Caputo Pizzeria, 8% Ischia, 24 Hours. 10 in Balls. That Margh was 40 seconds max in a blistering hot oven. I didn't measure but around 550*C if I had to guess. Almost too dark of course - but I like that ;-) Bottom was spot on! Later I let the oven cool and made some 70-90 second pies - no photos, just a crumb shot...

The Marg. looks a lot like a UPN pie.
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: italdream on February 18, 2016, 10:47:13 AM
Thank you guys! I love this place where you can call a Pizza "dramatic" and everybody will know what you're saying without any raised eyebrows. Thanks!

Don Luigi, after reading that comment, "dramatic" sounds like the best description I can think of. It expresses the efforts and passion that went through that journey, and how the look of that pizza conveys that journey beautifully. Dramatic indeed!

A couple of questions. I am hoping to get a PP at some point. Coming from a Blackstone, I have some concerns about launching without destroying the pizza and retaining a decent shape (I have a method with the Blackstone involving thick pizza-box paper which would not with a Pizza Party) and fire management.

Are there basic suggestions on those two issues (launching and fire management), including essential tools that you would recommend to work with the Pizza Party?

I saw that as your pizza party adventure progressed, your pizzas looked better and better. I see them as the standard for a Pizza Party Neapolitan pie.
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: ponzu on February 18, 2016, 03:29:29 PM
Don Luigi. At what temperature would you estimate your bulk and ball fermentation for a 24 hour dough with 8% starter?
Title: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Don Luigi on February 18, 2016, 03:34:07 PM
Don Luigi. At what temperature would you estimate your bulk and ball fermentation for a 24 hour dough with 8% starter?

At about 21*C. Depending on the activity of your starter and later bulk you can either raise or lower temp when ball-fermenting.
I might add that I bulk ferment at about 18-19*C and ball ferment at about 22-23*C and my starter is a lot less active in winter. In summer I go for about 4% Starter...
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Don Luigi on February 24, 2016, 09:49:07 AM
Don Luigi, after reading that comment, "dramatic" sounds like the best description I can think of. It expresses the efforts and passion that went through that journey, and how the look of that pizza conveys that journey beautifully. Dramatic indeed!

A couple of questions. I am hoping to get a PP at some point. Coming from a Blackstone, I have some concerns about launching without destroying the pizza and retaining a decent shape (I have a method with the Blackstone involving thick pizza-box paper which would not with a Pizza Party) and fire management.

Are there basic suggestions on those two issues (launching and fire management), including essential tools that you would recommend to work with the Pizza Party?

I saw that as your pizza party adventure progressed, your pizzas looked better and better. I see them as the standard for a Pizza Party Neapolitan pie.

Italdream,

thanks for the nice words. I use a regular wooden peel to launch the pie. Just make the sure the one you buy fits into the oven's mouth. As for fire managment. I use very dry beech wood. It's important to have a good fire going and if you have the Saputo floor go for temps at around 500°C on the floor. I also use the the spatiaflamma metal fire shield thing (is it called like that?) and always close the door the first 30-40 seconds I put in the pie - then turn - another 10-20 seconds bake with closed door - dome (or not, depending) - done!
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: italdream on February 25, 2016, 09:24:01 AM
Thanks Don Luigi. So you do a closed-door bake and one turn, plus doming at the end. I have read it several times about the Pizza Party and the close door. So close door is essential to retain temperature in the PP during bake.

Regarding top heat,  do you add a log right before inserting the pie, to get a high flame going under the roof, or doming is fine regardless of a top flame?
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Don Luigi on February 25, 2016, 09:45:52 AM
You need top flames rolling over the dome. A couple of pages earlier there's a video of my bake...check that!
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: italdream on February 25, 2016, 11:22:43 AM
Thanks.
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Don Luigi on February 28, 2016, 02:10:53 AM
Had a Pizza Party with my Pizza Party last night with my brothers, their wifes and friends. Good times. I made 14 Pies. Dough was fantastic. Slight crisp outer shell, creamy inside, airy crumb! 64% with 6% Ischia in a 26 Hour Ferment. I love the Saputo Stone really. Not one burned bottom - all beautiful! 500-530 *C  really is the sweet spot for that stone! Some pics.
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Simone on February 28, 2016, 11:00:03 AM
amazing pizzas! :drool: :drool:
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: TXCraig1 on February 28, 2016, 01:55:20 PM
Had a Pizza Party with my Pizza Party last night with my brothers, their wifes and friends. Good times. I made 14 Pies. Dough was fantastic. Slight crisp outer shell, creamy inside, airy crumb! 64% with 6% Ischia in a 26 Hour Ferment. I love the Saputo Stone really. Not one burned bottom - all beautiful! 500-530 *C  really is the sweet spot for that stone! Some pics.

Pretty!. When you say  "500-530 *C" do you mean on the stone? What does the thermometer at the front of the oven read?
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Don Luigi on February 28, 2016, 01:56:32 PM
Thanks!
Yeah on the stone! the front reads 400-450 depending on how much fire is going.
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: SAUZER.ITALY on March 01, 2016, 10:27:10 AM
wow... very very good !!!!  :drool:
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: arowe724 on March 01, 2016, 01:54:41 PM
Hi man! You are an inspiration! Brilliant pies! Do you have any secrets on fire/ heat management?

I think how I've read it is....
>Small fire in centre for 40 mins (roughly) to warm up the oven.
> move it to the side and add wood untill the temp reaches desired amount.
> add small chunks before cooking for the flame over the dome.

My only question is how do you stop the fire getting away with itself and become massively over heated?

Love the pies!
Trying to find a ischia starter from a UK Donor!

Thanks in advance

Title: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Don Luigi on March 01, 2016, 02:26:33 PM
Thanks! arowe724 - glad to help. I don't preheat this long in the center anymore. Maybe 25 minutes then to the side until I get solid 500*C. Adding 3-4 smaller, ruler-sized chunks of wood in between bakes...If I overheat the stone (no concern with the Saputo) I leave the door open without adding new wood for 5-10 minutes.
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: arowe724 on March 01, 2016, 02:41:31 PM
Thanks! arowe724 - glad to help. I don't preheat this long in the center anymore. Maybe 25 minutes then to the side until I get solid 500*C. Adding 3-4 smaller, ruler-sized chunks of wood in between bakes...If I overheat the stone (no concern with the Saputo) I leave the door open without adding new wood for 5-10 minutes.
Cool! Hopefully I will have saved enough for my oven soon! The saputo tiles.... Are they made out-of clay instead of the fire brick material?
I'm deciding between the pizza party or an actual brick oven. With you're blog I am really swaying towards getting a PP and sourcing some starter cultures!
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: JD on March 02, 2016, 10:04:10 PM
Way to keep your thread alive, and glad to see some beautiful pizzas coming out of your oven! Spring is around the corner, can't wait to get back outside and make some more NP pizzas. I'll be pushing the limits of the Saputo after reading your latest posts.
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: slimank on March 05, 2016, 06:44:46 AM
Hi All,

I also made the "leap" and ordered a PP WFO yesterday  ;D I have read a lot on this Forum and Simone was also helpful in providing the proper information. I ordered the pizzone with the saputo tiles, but I am still wondering how to handle the saputo tiles. With other words, do you need to "oven" dry them? or can you use them directly and do you also need to "cure" the oven before you can make some pies like Don Luigi does :)


greetings from the NL's
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: TXCraig1 on March 05, 2016, 08:07:35 AM
do you also need to "cure" the oven before you can make some pies like Don Luigi does :)

You have to do a lot more than cure some tiles to make pizza like Don.  ;D
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Jeslan on March 05, 2016, 08:36:41 AM
Hi All,
I also made the "leap" and ordered a PP WFO yesterday  ;D I have read a lot on this Forum and Simone was also helpful in providing the proper information. I ordered the pizzone with the saputo tiles, but I am still wondering how to handle the saputo tiles. With other words, do you need to "oven" dry them? or can you use them directly and do you also need to "cure" the oven before you can make some pies like Don Luigi does :)
greetings from the NL's

Hi Slimank
I also ordered the pizzaone with saputo floor last weekend, after having read Don positive experience  :) 
I have the 70x70 already, and its super WFO, and cook very good pizza's.

For the "normal floor" that comes with the oven, you need to "cure" the stones, before starting to use the oven for real.
Its all mentioned in the quick guide that comes with the oven.
I would think this also goes for the Saputo floor.

Good luck with your new WFO, the Pizzaparty is not difficult to use, but as Craig says, you will most likely need to make a lots of pizza's before the results the same results as Don.
:-)

rgds
jesper


Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Jeslan on March 05, 2016, 08:40:17 AM
Slimank
I forgot to mention - take the time and read all of Dons thread, there is lot of useful information.
The tip about, opening the door - if the floor gets too hot, really help me. (burned a lot of pizzas before i read the tip in Dons thread)

:-)

rgds
jesper

Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: slimank on March 05, 2016, 03:24:43 PM
Thnx Jesper and indeed to make pies like Don Luigi makes them I need to do a lot more :) but to be honest that is also the main goal here  ;D make, bake an do it all over again :p
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Pete Zaria on March 05, 2016, 04:19:16 PM
Hi Slimank
I also ordered the pizzaone with saputo floor last weekend, after having read Don positive experience  :) 
I have the 70x70 already, and its super WFO, and cook very good pizza's.

For the "normal floor" that comes with the oven, you need to "cure" the stones, before starting to use the oven for real.
Its all mentioned in the quick guide that comes with the oven.
I would think this also goes for the Saputo floor.

Good luck with your new WFO, the Pizzaparty is not difficult to use, but as Craig says, you will most likely need to make a lots of pizza's before the results the same results as Don.
:-)

rgds
jesper


Hi Jesper,

This is my first post, hope I'm doing it correctly.  I am interested in purchasing a Pizza Party oven but I'm not sure if the extra 20 cm. in the Pizzone justifies the added expense.  Since you will have both the 70X70 and the Pizzone in short order, I would appreciate your opinion of the Pizzone vs. the 70x70.

Thanks

Pete
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Don Luigi on March 06, 2016, 06:20:07 AM
Thanks everyone for the nice words! Great to hear that this thread is inspiring and useful. my pleasure.


Thnx Jesper and indeed to make pies like Don Luigi makes them I need to do a lot more :) but to be honest that is also the main goal here  ;D make, bake an do it all over again :p

You decided quickly, eh? Anyway, great choice with the PP. As for "curing" the floor. I heated the oven for an hour or so at more moderate heat (250-300*C)and then started the neapolitan inferno. No cracks or such in the tiles so all good. Have fun with the oven and let us know how it's working out for you!
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Jeslan on March 06, 2016, 08:40:34 AM

Hi Jesper,

This is my first post, hope I'm doing it correctly.  I am interested in purchasing a Pizza Party oven but I'm not sure if the extra 20 cm. in the Pizzone justifies the added expense.  Since you will have both the 70X70 and the Pizzone in short order, I would appreciate your opinion of the Pizzone vs. the 70x70.

Thanks

Pete
Hi.
If you plan to invite more than 4 people over for pizza, I would go for the larger pizzaone.
Without a helper,  for me it takes 7-8 mins preparing and cooking each pizza. (I'm not very skilled or quick yet. )
So having over the whole family and making pizza for them, takes its time.
But I will update you on the benefits if any, on having the larger model.

Rgds Jesper
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Don Luigi on March 06, 2016, 08:55:54 AM

Hi.
If you plan to invite more than 4 people over for pizza, I would go for the larger pizzaone.
Without a helper,  for me it takes 7-8 mins preparing and cooking each pizza. (I'm not very skilled or quick yet. )
So having over the whole family and making pizza for them, takes its time.
But I will update you on the benefits if any, on having the larger model.

Rgds Jesper

Baking two pies at once at Neapolitan Temps takes a lot more skill, workflow and attention too I might add. I had Pizza Parties with up to 10-15 people here with my 70x70 without any problems.
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Pete Zaria on March 06, 2016, 09:16:30 AM
THANKS JESPER!!!
Title: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: David Esq. on March 06, 2016, 10:07:46 AM
I don't believe the floor bricks required curing. It was the front of the oven that required the curing. At least, that is what I recall reading when I received my oven.
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Icelandr on March 06, 2016, 01:11:39 PM
When posting about my new purchase of the Pizza Party 70x70, I received this from Pizza Party, likely Simone.

"The first ignition: moderate heat about 200 °C (390 °F) for 1h30m, then gradually increase the temperature to dry the refractory bricks and tempering oven and tempering pizza oven"

From here:

http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=32167.msg414516#msg414516
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: TXCraig1 on March 06, 2016, 01:30:58 PM
I would recommend the larger model without reservation. Burning slightly more wood is far better than not having enough room.
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Pete Zaria on March 06, 2016, 02:19:46 PM
I would recommend the larger model without reservation. Burning slightly more wood is far better than not having enough room.


Thanks for the advice TXCraig1.


Pete
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: slimank on March 08, 2016, 02:24:27 AM
Thnx guys for the info regarding the curing.

unfortunately I received an email that the PP WFO pizzone will be delayed :( it seems that the last  Biscotto saputo tiles had an accident, so no pizza baking this weekend.
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Don Luigi on March 09, 2016, 05:11:30 PM
Pizza Wednesday, right? Made some experimental dough yesterday and boy was it good! Definitely some of my best.
This was 68% Hydration Caputo Pizzeria, 4%Dolcedo SD, 0.04% IDY, 2.7% Salt. 20 Hour Ambient Temperature ferment. Slap and Fold a la Richard Bertinet kneading. Dough was perfectly airy and pillowy soft and tender with that slight crisp shell. Check that video

http://youtu.be/i3cDf8vUp1A

And some pics. Happy!


Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Simone on March 09, 2016, 06:13:58 PM
 :drool: :drool:
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: slimank on March 10, 2016, 04:18:19 AM
Damn that looks good!!

So you are using SD and IDY? (You inspired me to make my own SD, so I am trying that as well ;) )
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Don Luigi on March 10, 2016, 04:29:25 AM

Damn that looks good!!

So you are using SD and IDY? (You inspired me to make my own SD, so I am trying that as well ;) )

First time I tried it and it worked out awesome. I thought about having the best of both worlds and that is exactly what it was.
I was pretty inspired by this guy for this batch...
http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=41217.0
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Jackie Tran on March 10, 2016, 08:03:02 AM
Don Luigi, I like the look of your latest pizza and crumb shots.  It looks to have the proper texture.   That's something I am working on as well.  Cheers.

Chau
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Jeslan on March 11, 2016, 04:50:48 AM

Hi Jesper,

This is my first post, hope I'm doing it correctly.  I am interested in purchasing a Pizza Party oven but I'm not sure if the extra 20 cm. in the Pizzone justifies the added expense.  Since you will have both the 70X70 and the Pizzone in short order, I would appreciate your opinion of the Pizzone vs. the 70x70.

Thanks

Pete



The Pizzaone  with biscotto saputo floor has arrived. .
Thanks to Don for telling about the biscotto saputo tiles, and making me upgrade my Pizzaparty setup.

Rgds Jesper
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Don Luigi on March 11, 2016, 05:46:25 AM

Don Luigi, I like the look of your latest pizza and crumb shots.  It looks to have the proper texture.   That's something I am working on as well.  Cheers.

Chau

Thanks alot Chau. Getting that airy crumb texture right is one of the hardest tasks I think. Often the very leoparded visually amazing Pies lack just that. I am working on having the great texture of the crumb and the stunning visuals in my latest batches.
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: slimank on March 11, 2016, 06:18:30 AM
Hi Jesper,

Congrats :)

My PP will arrive today, but the saputo tiles will be arriving probably next week, are you going to use the oven right away? :)
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Jackie Tran on March 11, 2016, 08:09:16 AM
Thanks alot Chau. Getting that airy crumb texture right is one of the hardest tasks I think. Often the very leoparded visually amazing Pies lack just that. I am working on having the great texture of the crumb and the stunning visuals in my latest batches.

I've noticed the same.  I tend to associate leoparding with strong gluten development and toughening of the crumb.  Good luck with your quest.  I'll be cheering you on.
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Pete Zaria on March 11, 2016, 09:20:59 AM


The Pizzaone  with biscotto saputo floor has arrived. .
Thanks to Don for telling about the biscotto saputo tiles, and made me upgrade my Pizzaparty setup.

Rgds Jesper

Great!!!  Looking forward to hearing about the differences between the 70 X 70 and the Pizzone.
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Steve on March 11, 2016, 09:28:06 AM
Great!!!  Looking forward to hearing about the differences between the 70 X 70 and the Pizzone.

Me too, I have the 70 x 70 but I wish it was just a little bit bigger. The Pizzaone sounds like it's the perfect size.
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Sirius on March 11, 2016, 10:43:57 AM
I have the Pizzone and just thought the opposite, since i dont have the skills to bake 2 pizze at the same time, the 70*70 would be big enough for me
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: ebpizza on March 11, 2016, 03:38:02 PM
I have the Pizzone and am thankful for the extra space in the oven, even if I don't have the skill for cooking more than one pizza at a time.
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Soulboy on March 11, 2016, 04:18:35 PM
I have the 70x70 and not sure as to what I'd do with the extra space
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: ebpizza on March 11, 2016, 04:52:03 PM
for me, the extra space gives me more of a cooler safe zone to rest the pie if needed.
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: robertscalchi on March 11, 2016, 05:13:35 PM
Hey don. I've been trying to follow your repertoire to the letter lately. I have been reading this post every night for the last month straight. In the 7 years I've been making pizzas between my home oven and the 40 odd times I've used the pizza party 70×70 with the original floor since last august. I've had great results without adhering to any type of baker's percentages, strickly mixing dough and starter by feel and not measurements. Always getting good but different results in dough performance and oven performance.

Previously when using ady/idy and or wild yeast starter or preferment, I would add im guessing 15% to 20% starter, wash in water, then salt to taste, then mix in flour to form wet dough. Let autolyse for 20min, mix,  autolyse again 20 min, mix one last time, then pour out onto floured surface and turn until smooth mass dough formed.  bulk ferment for  1-2 hrs at room temp, depending on activity, re ball individually, then cold rise for 24-48 hrs and warm up to room temp at 3-4 hrs prior to baking. . I've always done this even with wild yeast starters and preferments. Sometimes I would just warm rise the dough balls for 6 hours that day of needed immediately. I would use round containers of tupperware to let my dough rise.

With oven management. I would light fire in center and move off to left side center after P.P. warmed up equally from ceiling to floor anywhere between 680 and 720 deg. F according to the thermometer on the front of the oven.  I would check the floor temp with infrared and that would register anywhere between 820-920 deg f. And I would launch my pie mid right side . Always adding a piece of wood just before launch to get flames across dome. Sometimes with the spatifamma and sometimes without.

 Recently I tried a few things different and noticed a major improvement in dough handling and oddly and unexpectedly oven handling. This time I bulk fermented 12  hrs in the fridge  (from beer yeast preferment.) then balled, and fermented balls for 12 hrs in a completely flat container in back in fridge. Then let warm up and rise for 3-4 hrs prior to bake. The dough was extremely airy, less compressed, and handled great. 

The oven I decided to keep the fire all the way back left side and oddly noticed this time i couldn't get front thermometer to register pass 700 no matter how much wood i added it ran kind of cool with the fire to the very back left which i found odd becauae the weather was 70 deg that day. (I've had the P.P. at 900 deg on very cold winter days.)  The floor registered 870f and getting impatient i launched my pie with cooler temps then what I am accustomed to. Front 680 and floor 820 deg.  I did a 60 sec pie at the right side very back of the oven at the lower temps with door on and the results were pretty impressive.

 I want to try and learn bakers percentages for the sake of consistancy and have been messing with the dough calculator. So I tried plugging in your stats of 6% starter 62% hydration, 2-3 % salt and whatever else amount of g loud to yield 7 dough balls.

Where my confusion lies is the preferment percentage of water. Also.... how in the world do you handle caputo pizza flour at 62% hydration. It is extremely wet and sticky. I used to be able to get away with that high hydration with KABF but not with caputo 00. What temp is the front of your oven and floor of your oven with the original stone floor before launching pie. Also my biggest question is how do you recently bulk ferment for 24 hrs at 68deg and then re ball and ferment another 24 hrs at 68 deg. without the dough becoming over proofed or too acidic? In my opinion and experience the dough skins would tear on me. Unless you either refridge bulk for 24 and and refridge ball for 24. Or do you do 12 and 12?. Your input as well appreciated.  I can't sleep until I know how the great don does it.....lol  :chef: :drool:
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Don Luigi on March 11, 2016, 05:20:03 PM
just a short answer to your last question: I do 24 Hours total Ferment at 6%Ischia. More at a later point, ok?
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: robertscalchi on March 11, 2016, 05:29:22 PM
2nd and 3rd margherita
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: robertscalchi on March 11, 2016, 05:40:05 PM
Ok thanks. Sorry to bombard you with info. Just didn't want to leave anything out.
Title: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Don Luigi on March 12, 2016, 02:51:10 AM
Hi Robert, I think your Pizza looks really good. 62% Hydration is not really high. On my last batch I experimented with 68% and Caputo Pizzeria and the handling was good especially if those dough balls were matured on a wooden floor. Try the French  Slap and Fold Technique a la Richard Bertinet for higher Hydration and don't cold ferment. Depending on the activity level of your starter and the ambient temperature in your surrounding  you might experiment with the % of starter you need. In my book 70% of a great dough is in the maturation. Hydration Level, Flour used, SD vs yeast - all plays a role but if your dough has the right maturation you won half the game!
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Simone on March 12, 2016, 06:02:56 PM
nice pizzas Robert!
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: robertscalchi on March 13, 2016, 09:11:41 AM
Thank you luigi snd Simone (pizza party) for compliments. I just wrapped up my session with the higher hydration at 62 %  and following the formulas from the dough calculator rather than by feel with the caputo tonight. I could barely ball them they were so wet and very slack.  They went slack almost immediately, but the results when opening the dough were fine if not similar. Handling results were different than my last batch but still suberb. Once the dough rises for 24 hrs i notice it handle fine. So im going to keep pushing the  envelope with the hydration and heat in future. I bulk fermented at 62% hydation at room temp for 18hrs. Had to leave the house today and cold rose balls for 12 hrs and warmed up for 2 hrs. I think I 'm starting to get the consistancy down. Pies were great tonight. )  cooked for 60 secs. Floor temp 830 deg seems to be the constant winner without burning bottoms with upper chamber at 920 deg with flames rolling on log in back left side and coals in front left with the the pizza party. Luigi I'm going to look into that french slap opening that sounds pretty interesting and try making or using wooden proof boxes. I've seen people on here using old wooden wine boxes for proof containers. Never would have thought of that. Have plenty of them.  Thanks craig and luigi. I going to look into that french slap that looks interesting
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: robertscalchi on March 13, 2016, 09:17:46 AM
Marg 2
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: robertscalchi on March 15, 2016, 05:07:49 PM
The French slap fold by Richard bertinet is intended for a very wet bulk dough correct. People don't actually open matured dough balls this way? Or do they? :chef:
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Don Luigi on March 15, 2016, 05:13:22 PM

The French slap fold by Richard bertinet is intended for a very wet bulk dough correct. People don't actually open matured dough balls this way? Or do they? :chef:

It's for initial mixing of high hydrated dough.
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: pizapizza on March 16, 2016, 08:40:40 AM
1st one looks great!
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: TXCraig1 on March 16, 2016, 11:04:28 AM
The French slap fold by Richard bertinet is intended for a very wet bulk dough correct. People don't actually open matured dough balls this way? Or do they? :chef:

Only if they want a horribly mangled mess. It has absolutely nothing in common with the unfortunately named Neapolitan "slap" technique.
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Jackie Tran on March 16, 2016, 01:11:01 PM
The French slap technique is a general bread making technique.  In the video Richard is demonstrating it on a Sweet bread dough, that contains lots of fat (butter I believe) and is a moderately wet dough.  Higher hydration doughs or doughs with a lot of fat can tolerate this aggressive manipulation of the dough to some extent.  It may even require it to some small extent.  But in a regular pizza dough, it produces a tough and leathery crumb.   When I first started to learn how to hand knead, I made around 60 batches of dough using this same technique not knowing the wiser.  It wasn't until Scott123 turned me onto minimal kneading that I saw a difference in crumb. Yes it can build a lot of strength in the dough, but it has it's limitations.  Needless to say I don't use the technique anymore nor would I recommend it.
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Don Luigi on March 16, 2016, 01:19:19 PM

The French slap technique is a general bread making technique.  In the video Richard is demonstrating it on a Sweet bread dough, that contains lots of fat (butter I believe) and is a moderately wet dough.  Higher hydration doughs or doughs with a lot of fat can tolerate this aggressive manipulation of the dough to some extent.  It may even require it to some small extent.  But in a regular pizza dough, it produces a tough and leathery crumb.   When I first started to learn how to hand knead, I made around 60 batches of dough using this same technique not knowing the wiser.  It wasn't until Scott123 turned me onto minimal kneading that I saw a difference in crumb. Yes it can build a lot of strength in the dough, but it has it's limitations.  Needless to say I don't use the technique anymore nor would I recommend it.
Wow, my first try with the technique resulted in the best crumb I ever produced. Super light and airy. I used the slap and fold maybe for two-three minutes and then did two rest periods with regular stretch and folds in between - I realized the moment I finally balled the bulk that I had trapped more air in the dough than ever before. Maybe a longer, more intense slap n fold produces a tighter crumb?
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: mmille24 on March 16, 2016, 01:25:10 PM
I went up to 70% hydration recently and find you can do a significantly more slap and folds.

If I'm working with say 64% hydration, I can only do a few slap and folds before the dough gets too stiff.
Title: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Don Luigi on March 16, 2016, 01:27:49 PM
I went up to 70% hydration recently and find you can do a significantly more slap and folds.

If I'm working with say 64% hydration, I can only do a few slap and folds before the dough gets too stiff.

Right! i think the technique only works from something like 66% upwards.
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Jackie Tran on March 16, 2016, 02:23:57 PM
Wow, my first try with the technique resulted in the best crumb I ever produced. Super light and airy. I used the slap and fold maybe for two-three minutes and then did two rest periods with regular stretch and folds in between - I realized the moment I finally balled the bulk that I had trapped more air in the dough than ever before. Maybe a longer, more intense slap n fold produces a tighter crumb?

Yes one of my very best crust and crumb was made with this technique. It was for a NY dough, around mid 70% hydration.  But I have only been able to make that once.  I haven't been able to replicate that crust even after 60 more tries.  It's here.  Look at the first pizza and the crumb shot in reply #4 http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=10826.msg96537#msg96537
Especially if you are following his advice of slap and folding till the dough pulls away cleanly from the board.   And when I talk about tough or leathery crumb, I'm speaking of the pizza once it cools down after a few minutes.  As it cools longer the crumb gets more and more tough.  But the technique can be expertly used if you just use it for initial kneading and finish the dough with periods of rest and stretch and folds.  Don Luigi, keep playing with the technique.  If you can get reproducible results that is light and airy then I will look into it again.  It's been years since I've used the technique, but this was when I was starting out. 
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Don Luigi on March 16, 2016, 02:38:57 PM

Yes one of my very best crust and crumb was made with this technique. It was for a NY dough, around mid 70% hydration.  But I have only been able to make that once.  I haven't been able to replicate that crust even after 60 more tries.  It's here.  Look at the first pizza and the crumb shot in reply #4 http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=10826.msg96537#msg96537
Especially if you are following his advice of slap and folding till the dough pulls away cleanly from the board.   And when I talk about tough or leathery crumb, I'm speaking of the pizza once it cools down after a few minutes.  As it cools longer the crumb gets more and more tough.  But the technique can be expertly used if you just use it for initial kneading and finish the dough with periods of rest and stretch and folds.  Don Luigi, keep playing with the technique.  If you can get reproducible results that is light and airy then I will look into it again.  It's been years since I've used the technique, but this was when I was starting out.

Chau, just made this new batch - exact same formular and kneading technique. Results tomorrow...;-)
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Jackie Tran on March 16, 2016, 02:46:14 PM
Your dough looks nice and smooth.  Looking forward to the pictures and crumb shot.  How long of a bulk are you doing?  How much is the dough rising in bulk before you ball it? 10% or more like 50%?
Title: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Don Luigi on March 16, 2016, 02:51:40 PM
I'll ball tomorrow morning, after approximately 12 hours in bulk. Then another 10 hours in balls. Formular was 68% Water, 0.04% IDY+4%SD. I expect this to have a little bit of gas therein tomorrow when I ball. Usually my dough really starts to ferment in balls and I don't see too much rise in bulk. Just a little bit of gas/air bubbles.
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Pete Zaria on March 17, 2016, 07:37:51 PM


The Pizzaone  with biscotto saputo floor has arrived. .
Thanks to Don for telling about the biscotto saputo tiles, and making me upgrade my Pizzaparty setup.

Rgds Jesper

Hi Jesper,

Did you get to fire up the Pizzone yet?

Pete
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: tjb77494 on March 18, 2016, 05:40:13 AM
Your pies look awesome, I am newbie and new to this forum. I've just ordered 70*70 from Simone and have few questions.
First, Can I use my KitchenAid mixer, or hand kneading is a preferred method?
Also, true cooking schedule i.e. I want to start to cook pizzas at 14:00, What is your routine from feeding the starter to serving the pizzas?


Regards Tom!
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Don Luigi on March 18, 2016, 09:17:49 AM

Your pies look awesome, I am newbie and new to this forum. I've just ordered 70*70 from Simone and have few questions.
First, Can I use my KitchenAid mixer, or hand kneading is a preferred method?
Also, true cooking schedule i.e. I want to start to cook pizzas at 14:00, What is your routine from feeding the starter to serving the pizzas?


Regards Tom!

Tom, thanks! If you keep your sd in the fridge, I'd pull it out 24 hours before dough making, let it come to room temp, feed in the evening and then again in the morning 5 hours prior to making dough. If your sd is kept out of the fridge I'd simple feed it 5 hours prior to dough making (if you know it'll at least double in size after about 4 hours after feeding).
Title: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Don Luigi on March 18, 2016, 12:08:43 PM
Pies of yesterday! I think I succesfully repeated the dough of last time. Ever so slightly less airy - but great dough nonetheless! This could become my new standard dough!
Also again a study on how different temperatures in the oven and bake times affect the final Pizza. The first (more leoparded) Pizza was a 40-45 second bake. Super soft. The second is a 70 second one. More airy, very thin and slightly crispy outer shell of the cornice. I love both styles to be honest!
Spring is here in Germany finally!
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Jackie Tran on March 18, 2016, 12:15:40 PM
Very nice looking pies Don Luigi! Ok I will try the technique again.  How big of a batch are you making? At what point are you doing the slap and fold to?  Obviously not smooth right?
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: slimank on March 18, 2016, 12:27:08 PM
wauw Don..

Do you also autolyse the dough? and any tips regarding the "wet dough"? I will try make some pies next week with 65% hydration and 6% SD (the SD is self made with caputo flower) and with a small amount of fresh yeast or IDY.

regards,
Sliman
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: TXCraig1 on March 18, 2016, 12:46:23 PM
Very pretty.
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: jsfotografie on March 18, 2016, 12:56:04 PM
uhhh nice pies don  :pizza:

where did you get your sd from? and which flour you use for feeding it? :-)

cheers janosch
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: schold on March 18, 2016, 01:11:29 PM
Now it's my turn to return the compliments - truly beautiful pies. Very impressive. Aesthetically, I prefer the latter, which I guess is no surprise, but I would love to have had them side by side for a taste (and texture) comparison. For me, a 40 second bake in the Effeuno P134H oven is merely a pipe dream.

How does the basil turn out? I would much prefer to add it beforehand as well, but with my cooking times and the "weak" Norwegian basil, that doesn't work that well. I've eaten a lot of pizza in Italy where the basil perfumes the whole pie, and I wish I could achieve the same at home.
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Don Luigi on March 18, 2016, 01:28:45 PM

Very nice looking pies Don Luigi! Ok I will try the technique again.  How big of a batch are you making? At what point are you doing the slap and fold to?  Obviously not smooth right?
Thank you, Chau! My usual batch is for 5x265gr Balls.
I slap and fold (pretty gently I must add not slaping with much force) for about 2-3 minutes until the dough starts to get off my hands and starts to get smooth. I think it's very effective in incorporating the air and make the dough come alive aka stimulating the yeasts (god, that sounds weird). Then I let rest for about 10 minutes, add a light dusting of flour, then stretch and fold on the flour. Repeat last step again including 10 minute rest again and bulk ferment.
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Don Luigi on March 18, 2016, 01:31:48 PM

wauw Don..

Do you also autolyse the dough? and any tips regarding the "wet dough"? I will try make some pies next week with 65% hydration and 6% SD (the SD is self made with caputo flower) and with a small amount of fresh yeast or IDY.

regards,
Sliman
I don't autolyse. For wet doughs a gentle version of slap and fold like Richard Bertinet works great for me. The balls itself are sometimes hard to not stick to the work surface when spreading them. Use as much bench flour as you need and as least as you can.
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Don Luigi on March 18, 2016, 01:32:15 PM

Very pretty.
Thanks alot Craig!
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Don Luigi on March 18, 2016, 01:35:47 PM

uhhh nice pies don  :pizza:

where did you get your sd from? and which flour you use for feeding it? :-)

cheers janosch

It's this SD i used for this batch

http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=36320.msg391257#msg391257

I feed with whatever type 405 or 550 flour is at hand. Lately I been using Alnatura Flour for all my breads and sourdough culture.
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Jackie Tran on March 18, 2016, 01:36:24 PM
Thank you, Chau! My usual batch is for 5x265gr Balls.
I slap and fold (pretty gently I must add not slaping with much force) for about 2-3 minutes until the dough starts to get off my hands and starts to get smooth. I think it's very effective in incorporating the air and make the dough come alive aka stimulating the yeasts (god, that sounds weird). Then I let rest for about 10 minutes, add a light dusting of flour, then stretch and fold on the flour. Repeat last step again including 10 minute rest again and bulk ferment.

Thanks Don.  I see the difference.  Richard bangs his dough on the surface pretty hard.  And the technique is until the dough becomes smooth and doesn't stick to the board anymore.  That type of aggressive kneading will guarantee a tough crumb.  You are doing a much gentler version of that technique.  No wonder you are not getting a tough crumb.  I'll give your method a try this weekend and report back.
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Don Luigi on March 18, 2016, 01:39:34 PM

Now it's my turn to return the compliments - truly beautiful pies. Very impressive. Aesthetically, I prefer the latter, which I guess is no surprise, but I would love to have had them side by side for a taste (and texture) comparison. For me, a 40 second bake in the Effeuno P134H oven is merely a pipe dream.

How does the basil turn out? I would much prefer to add it beforehand as well, but with my cooking times and the "weak" Norwegian basil, that doesn't work that well. I've eaten a lot of pizza in Italy where the basil perfumes the whole pie, and I wish I could achieve the same at home.

Schold, thanks alot. When I made Pizza for my cousin lately (who's a baker like my uncle and my grandfather was) he asked why I didn't add the basil later and I answered with exactly your words. Added before it perfumes the whole Pizza. I get packed Basil of good quality at some places here in Germany all year these days. Fortunately.
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Matthew on March 18, 2016, 03:58:31 PM
Very pretty indeed!


Matt
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: ponzu on March 18, 2016, 07:17:33 PM
The first pie is visually stunning. I can't imagine a prettier pie. It is a supermodel.

Knowing my tastes, though, I'd probably prefer the second. Kind of like a slightly less hot sister of a supermodel with an amazing sense of humor.
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: SAUZER.ITALY on March 19, 2016, 03:45:49 AM
Really good ! I agree with you, to get a clear mako the furnace has very high temperature.
good pizzas! :drool:
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Don Luigi on March 23, 2016, 04:19:33 PM
I had a friend here whom I promised to make Pizza for since a long time. He was really into the Pizza. Just one pic.
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: tjb77494 on March 25, 2016, 01:27:41 AM
Thank you wolver! I made some bread as well when the oven cooled down to approx 200°C. The floor was still hotter so the underside became a little to charred but it's great!

Have you removed the coals from the oven before you baked these loafs?
I am curious if the brick retains enough heat to do a load of the bread.

Regards,
Tom
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: sub on March 25, 2016, 04:32:46 AM
I had a friend here whom I promised to make Pizza for since a long time. He was really into the Pizza. Just one pic.

I bet he enjoyed it, the pie realy looks delicious.
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: stormholloway on March 25, 2016, 01:14:38 PM
What peels are you guys using with your PP ovens? I know the opening is only 13". Will a 13" GI metal peel fit?
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: mitchjg on March 25, 2016, 01:32:55 PM
Yes, you can. I have many times.  You have to be careful to maneuver past the fire but totally doable. I think the opening is 14 and the recently improved the opening which makes it easier.
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: robertscalchi on April 10, 2016, 01:07:53 AM
I have the gi peel and it's a little tight if you don't have the newer wider opening in your oven. Depending on if you are right or left handed. Slightly cock the backend of the spatifamma and the fire towards the center of the oven. Not much though I'm talking like 2 to 3 degrees. Should give you a little more wiggle room from the opening if you launch the pie on a a slight angle.
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: robertscalchi on April 10, 2016, 01:10:52 AM
Don you are at your consistancy peak. I think it's time you give the big shots d as michele sorbillo and mangieri a run for their money and their business  :drool:
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Sirius on April 12, 2016, 05:21:57 PM
Kann ich die Pizza essen, bitte, bitte,bitte....ich bringe auch Bier mit ;D
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: xavster on April 28, 2016, 04:51:28 PM
Your pizzas look amazing!
I've read the first few pages of the thread and the fire shield is mentioned a few times.
Is it just a piece of iron?
I ask because if I have a large fire in my oven, then the side closest blisters very quickly and the cheese doesn't get a chance to melt properly. I think a fire shield would help and wanted your advice!
Thanks very much.
Xavier
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Don Luigi on May 01, 2016, 02:25:00 PM

I have the gi peel and it's a little tight if you don't have the newer wider opening in your oven. Depending on if you are right or left handed. Slightly cock the backend of the spatifamma and the fire towards the center of the oven. Not much though I'm talking like 2 to 3 degrees. Should give you a little more wiggle room from the opening if you launch the pie on a a slight angle.

+1
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Don Luigi on May 01, 2016, 02:25:47 PM

Don you are at your consistancy peak. I think it's time you give the big shots d as michele sorbillo and mangieri a run for their money and their business  :drool:

Thank you man! Yeah, very satisfied with the consistency of late!
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Don Luigi on May 01, 2016, 02:26:31 PM

Kann ich die Pizza essen, bitte, bitte,bitte....ich bringe auch Bier mit ;D

Come over - for real! Wo kommst du her?
Title: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Don Luigi on May 01, 2016, 02:28:37 PM
Your pizzas look amazing!
I've read the first few pages of the thread and the fire shield is mentioned a few times.
Is it just a piece of iron?
I ask because if I have a large fire in my oven, then the side closest blisters very quickly and the cheese doesn't get a chance to melt properly. I think a fire shield would help and wanted your advice!
Thanks very much.
Xavier

Yeah, spatiafiamma or fire shield is just a piece of bend metal. it's pretty easy to build one yourself and it's really useful in a small oven like the Pizza Party.
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Don Luigi on May 01, 2016, 02:33:44 PM
Hey,
been on the road for a while without Pizza :-( When I came home I invited some friends and had a Pizza Party with 12 Pies. Didn't make many photos just the two below. It was 5%SD (boosted with some IDY), 66% Hydration. A little over-fermented but lovely, airy Pies! Very enjoyable!
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: xavster on May 02, 2016, 02:24:42 AM
Thank you for your help re spatiafiamma.
Would you be able to give me the dimensions?
Just a piece of angle iron?
Thanks again.
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Soulboy on May 02, 2016, 03:36:36 AM
http://pizzapartyshop.com/en/accessories/56-spartifiamma-wood-oven-accessories.html?cid=12
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: xavster on May 02, 2016, 04:30:18 AM
Thank you, but it costs €17 then €40 shipping to the UK.
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Soulboy on May 02, 2016, 06:51:37 AM
But on those pictures you see what it looks like and then toucan make your own from a sheet of steel according to the dimensions of your oven...
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: xavster on May 02, 2016, 05:47:59 PM
Yes I reckon so. I could probably just buy a piece of 90 degree angled steel very cheaply somewhere.
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Soulboy on May 02, 2016, 06:00:51 PM
Get a used kitchen sink and just cut out the piece you need.
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: robertscalchi on May 02, 2016, 11:27:19 PM
Could even attempt to make the spatifamma out of a copper sheet more flexible to bend and lathe and should hold up to those temps
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: robertscalchi on May 02, 2016, 11:30:20 PM
Stainless steel sink that's a good idea. I like cast iron just you can season/parkerizing it buy just coating it with any food grade oil or animal fat. Might be conductive of heat more though and cook the pies even harder
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: TXCraig1 on May 02, 2016, 11:44:39 PM
Seasoning won't hold up to WFO temps. It will burn it right off the cast iron. Parkerizing is a different thing entirely.
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Icelandr on May 03, 2016, 12:00:35 AM
Copper? Seasoning?
Surely you jest, the light gauge stainless steel that makes up the origininal supplied heat shield, is a tad light for its purpose, a great idea but a bit light - below is a just taken shot of mine now 3 months old,  a heavier gauge stainless is on its way
The temperatures of the oven are high, metal reacts in odd ways to heat stress . . .
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Simone on May 04, 2016, 05:50:23 PM
A Spartifiamma more bigger and with greater thickness reduce maneuverability, is better stainless steel material
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: TXCraig1 on May 04, 2016, 06:01:16 PM
Copper? Seasoning?
Surely you jest, the light gauge stainless steel that makes up the origininal supplied heat shield, is a tad light for its purpose, a great idea but a bit light - below is a just taken shot of mine now 3 months old,  a heavier gauge stainless is on its way
The temperatures of the oven are high, metal reacts in odd ways to heat stress . . .

Why do you say it's too light? What does it need to do that it isn't doing?
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: mitchjg on May 04, 2016, 06:54:26 PM
Mine looks the same - a little buckled here and there and discolored.  I pretty much don't care because I think it does the job just fine.  It seems to shield so well that my pies tend to be done a little bit faster on the opposite side from the fire facing the back.

The only issue I have had is that sometimes the buckling makes it difficult to slide/maneuver the baby andiron on it when getting the fire set up on the side.   A heavier material would not buckle as much.  But, not a big deal.
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Icelandr on May 04, 2016, 10:31:37 PM
Craig, I recall some time ago reading, perhaps in Omid's thread, of a similar idea separating fire from pies, keeping the embers at bay in a small oven. I believe the suggestions were for a "curb" of steel of some weight.

Is the present spartifama doing it's job - yes. Would it benefit from heavier gauge stainless, yes, I believe it would and think it would more easily allow me to push back the beginnings of the fire and look like the same quality as the production the oven. Yes, my dear wife refers to me a as a picky b*stard, I am sure, affectionately.
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: TXCraig1 on May 05, 2016, 09:34:20 AM
If my memory is correct, Omid was using a piece of flat steel bent along it's long axis - somewhat like an 's' -  so as not to flop over. I don't think it was 'L' shaped and the bottom didn't go under the fire. In this case, the additional thickness was probably necessary. I've used the stock spartifiamma in a Pizza Party, and I've experimented with a bar similar to Omid's in my big oven.  While it's somewhat of a necessity to hold back the fire in a smaller oven like the Pizza Party to maximize the baking space, I think you would be surprised just how little difference the barrier itself, thick or thin, makes in the actual bake. In my big oven, it makes no difference whatsoever.  A slightly thicker steel probably won't hurt oven performance, but I doubt it will help it either. Keep in mind that Omid's oven, while small, was not low mass. If you go too thick on the steel in a low mass oven like the PP you might cause a problem where the temperature of the steel gets out of balance with the rest of the oven.


 
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Jackie Tran on May 05, 2016, 10:07:14 AM
A Spartifiamma more bigger and with greater thickness reduce maneuverability, is better stainless steel material

The size is fine but the thinness of the material is what ppl are questioning.  The current one works fine but I suspect most ppl feel that it isn't durable because of the thinness and warping.  Maybe a slightly thicker gauge sheet metal would be better.  I have some 22g sheet metal that is thicker and I will use to make one.  I'll report back if it warps as well or not.
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Don Luigi on May 05, 2016, 03:16:36 PM

If my memory is correct, Omid was using a piece of flat steel bent along it's long axis - somewhat like an 's' -  so as not to flop over. I don't think it was 'L' shaped and the bottom didn't go under the fire. In this case, the additional thickness was probably necessary. I've used the stock spartifiamma in a Pizza Party, and I've experimented with a bar similar to Omid's in my big oven.  While it's somewhat of a necessity to hold back the fire in a smaller oven like the Pizza Party to maximize the baking space, I think you would be surprised just how little difference the barrier itself, thick or thin, makes in the actual bake. In my big oven, it makes no difference whatsoever.  A slightly thicker steel probably won't hurt oven performance, but I doubt it will help it either. Keep in mind that Omid's oven, while small, was not low mass. If you go too thick on the steel in a low mass oven like the PP you might cause a problem where the temperature of the steel gets out of balance with the rest of the oven.
Craig, I didn't know you had experience with the Pizza Party. That's cool to hear! You own one yourself or did you bake with a friends oven?
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: TXCraig1 on May 05, 2016, 03:47:08 PM
Yes, I've had the opportunity to bake in a Pizzone with the Saputo deck a dozen or so times, and I really like it a lot. 50+/- seconds typically with a few partial turns and little or no doming.
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Don Luigi on May 05, 2016, 03:48:19 PM

Yes, I've had the opportunity to bake in a Pizzone with the Saputo deck a dozen or so times, and I really like it a lot. 50+/- seconds typically with a few partial turns and little or no doming.
Awesome, great to see and hear!
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: stormholloway on May 06, 2016, 12:41:19 AM
You know I didn't opt for the saputo option and I didn't have an issue with the tiles being too hot compared to the top heat on my first run. Not sure what I'm missing.

I also didn't use the spartafiamma at all and didn't feel like I needed it in the 70x70.
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: robertscalchi on May 06, 2016, 02:36:07 PM
Craig. I've seen seasoning start to flake at the 700 deg range but my oven wood stand... I keep wiping it with bacon grease every firing and it stays nice and black and prevents from rusting pitting. My spartifamma is all warped like everyone's I don't mind it, just frustrating when an added log topples it and you have to rearrange the spilled coals again. Pizza party's have depth. But not width. Wish I knew of the wider mouth version when I ordered
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Don Luigi on May 09, 2016, 12:40:07 PM
Pizza Party yesterday with 14 Pies. Beautiful weather, nice Pizza, good drinks (Beer from Belgium and Whiskey from Kentucky). What more can you ask?
Managed to make a few photos...:-)


Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: TXCraig1 on May 09, 2016, 12:57:58 PM
If that Margherita was round, it would be bordering on near perfect to my eye.
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Icelandr on May 09, 2016, 01:09:57 PM
Beautiful Pies! I'll have to work harder to try to catch up. Quit moving the posts!
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Don Luigi on May 10, 2016, 03:33:08 AM

If that Margherita was round, it would be bordering on near perfect to my eye.

Thanks alot Craig. That Margh is also absolutely what I am trying to achieve with every Pie. Kind of a cross of your Pies and UPN. Tastewise it was awesome. I think I found the best cheese now. It's Brimi Fior Di Latte for the europeans around. If you find it - grab it! Excellent quality, great melt and beautiful pure, white colour!
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Don Luigi on May 10, 2016, 03:33:48 AM

Beautiful Pies! I'll have to work harder to try to catch up. Quit moving the posts!

Thanks Icelandr! I really enjoy your posts too!
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: norfbech on May 10, 2016, 07:05:18 AM
They look absolutely fantastic Don.
I'm going to find the time to read through this thread in full Don.
Can I ask how long it takes you to heat the oven up and (approximately) what weight/amount of wood you would use?
I'm sure those details are in this thread though!

Cheers.
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: LaLabbo on May 10, 2016, 08:34:03 AM
It's Brimi Fior Di Latte for the europeans around. If you find it - grab it! Excellent quality, great melt and beautiful pure, white colour!

That's what I thaught when I first used Brimi. Here around (FFM) you get it at "Tegut".
Obviously, very nice Pies
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Don Luigi on May 10, 2016, 01:48:38 PM

That's what I thaught when I first used Brimi. Here around (FFM) you get it at "Tegut".
Obviously, very nice Pies

Thanks! Yeah, I buy Brimi Products as well at Tegut as well here in northern Bavaria.
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: schold on May 10, 2016, 05:19:45 PM
Very beautiful, Don - you've acquired a certain kind of "look" to your pies, which is cool. I could spot one of your creations a mile away. I prefer more sauce, personally, but I know that this is how you roll  :pizza: :)
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Pizza Napoletana on May 10, 2016, 07:51:05 PM
Don, you have been making awesome sourdough pizzas in your Pizza Party oven. This is a great thread!

Omid
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Don Luigi on May 11, 2016, 02:30:16 AM

Very beautiful, Don - you've acquired a certain kind of "look" to your pies, which is cool. I could spot one of your creations a mile away. I prefer more sauce, personally, but I know that this is how you roll  :pizza: :)

Hi Schold - great to read from you! Thanks for the "look" comment - that's awesome! As for the sauce - I used to used more sauce as well and even commented somewhere on here that I think Anthony Mangierie is using not enough but I came to love it. It gives room for more olive oil which I personally love to taste on my pies...;-) But of course I see why you prefer more sauce. It's a matter of taste.
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Don Luigi on May 11, 2016, 02:30:55 AM

Don, you have been making awesome sourdough pizzas in your Pizza Party oven. This is a great thread!

Omid

Thank you Omid. A highly appreciated comment.
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Don Luigi on May 11, 2016, 02:36:11 AM

They look absolutely fantastic Don.
I'm going to find the time to read through this thread in full Don.
Can I ask how long it takes you to heat the oven up and (approximately) what weight/amount of wood you would use?
I'm sure those details are in this thread though!

Cheers.

Thanks! Pre-heat is about 45 minutes. The amount of wood depends on alot of factors. I use beech wood which has a great balance of good and lasting heat and it grows like crazy around here.
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: norfbech on May 11, 2016, 06:16:37 AM
^^ Thanks Don - that's a pretty decent warm up time.
I look forward to sitting down with this thread... :)
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Icelandr on May 11, 2016, 10:29:48 AM
A question if I may . . . What is your preferred oven and floor temperature range now. Before the Saputo, I know it was lower but what do you aim for now?
The last few pies in my oven were at 850° oven and 520° floor but keeping it there between bakes seems a challenge.

Thanks
Title: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Don Luigi on May 11, 2016, 10:51:54 AM
I only check temperature before I launch the first pies - else my firing routine seems to keep the oven at relatively constant temp (I always add some wood when a pie is finished). I check for the floor to be in the range of 480-520*C and the front thermometer opposite of the fire usually is in the 425*C range.
Title: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Don Luigi on May 22, 2016, 01:19:02 PM
Perfect early summer day in Germany. Been out in nature with my wife and kids and crowned the day with some Pizza.
Formula:
66%/5%Dolcedo SD/2.8 Salt/Caputo Pizzeria
22 Hours ambient temp.
New topping tryout and my kids loved it. Me and my wife too. White Pie with Shrimp/Garlic/Parmigiano/Basil and fresh chopped Chives and Parsley from the garden.
I also used a little more sauce again on these Marghs as opposed to my latest pies. I like it too but think I prefer the UPN approach to tomatoe sauce on Margharitas. Also made a tribute to Schold Bellpepper/Red Onion/Chilli Pie but didn't snap a photo...next time. Great topping!
Now for some cold beers.
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: TXCraig1 on May 22, 2016, 02:28:05 PM
Lovin' that Marg on the striped plate.
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: schold on May 23, 2016, 07:14:32 AM
Also made a tribute to Schold Bellpepper/Red Onion/Chilli Pie but didn't snap a photo...next time. Great topping!
Now for some cold beers.

Thank you, Don! I'm glad you liked it. It looks like you had a great day in Germany.
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: JD on May 23, 2016, 09:29:44 AM
Beauties!
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Simone on May 23, 2016, 11:07:28 AM
this is an hot summer.. Pizza Party go go  ;D
great pizzas Don!!
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Don Luigi on May 23, 2016, 01:55:26 PM

Lovin' that Marg on the striped plate.
Thanks Craig!
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Don Luigi on May 23, 2016, 01:56:13 PM

Thank you, Don! I'm glad you liked it. It looks like you had a great day in Germany.
Yes, great day and that topping is great. Sweet, spicy and hot.
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Don Luigi on May 23, 2016, 01:56:30 PM

Beauties!

Grazie JD!
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Don Luigi on May 23, 2016, 01:57:32 PM

this is an hot summer.. Pizza Party go go  ;D
great pizzas Don!!
Thank you Simone. Unfortunately it's cold again today. But this summer will be filled with Pizza Parties I hope!
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Don Luigi on June 07, 2016, 03:01:11 PM
Some Pies of today. 5% Ischia SD, 68% Hydration (maybe too much) and a little over fermented. Need to cut down the amount of starter now in summertime a little. Very nice nonetheless. Todays fave: Chives from the garden with Buffalo Mozz. Whoever invented this Pie - it's a to die for topping in its perfectly balanced simplicity.

Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: TXCraig1 on June 07, 2016, 03:01:54 PM
Sweet.
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: MotoMannequin on June 07, 2016, 03:08:10 PM
Fantastic looking pizzas Don. Inspirational!
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: schold on June 07, 2016, 05:02:08 PM
Very impressive, Don. I'll give the chive pizza a try. You add them before you cook the pie, right? Anything else? Salt, I guess, and olive oil.
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Don Luigi on June 07, 2016, 05:11:38 PM
Thank you guys! Schold, it's Chives, Buffalo Mozz, Parmigiano and Olive Oil. Some salt could work, but I don't add it and let the cheeses do their thing. The Buffalo Mozz really unfolds its magic on this Pie!
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Icelandr on June 08, 2016, 04:47:15 PM
Both of your latest bakes look fantastic, I like the colour and the cornichone size for the size of the pie - another inspiration.
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: parallei on June 08, 2016, 05:24:23 PM
Todays fave: Chives from the garden with Buffalo Mozz. Whoever invented this Pie - it's a to die for topping in its perfectly balanced simplicity.

That was member John Della Vecchia's creation.  He doesn't post much anymore.  He does/did the most lovely pies.  I miss his work!
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: TXCraig1 on June 08, 2016, 10:12:34 PM
Here is the original: http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=21400.0

IMO, possibly the all-time best original pie ever posted in this forum.
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Don Luigi on June 23, 2016, 01:55:07 PM
Pizza on a beautiful summer day in Germany! Nothing special, just my usual Pies but delicious whatsoever. 65%/Caputo Pizzeria/4%Dolcedo SD/2.9%Salt. Very soft, beautifully fermented dough. Nice!
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: JD on June 23, 2016, 02:07:38 PM
Pizza on a beautiful summer day in Germany! Nothing special, just my usual Pies but delicious whatsoever. 65%/Caputo Pizzeria/4%Dolcedo SD/2.9%Salt. Very soft, beautifully fermented dough. Nice!

The Margheritas are perfect!
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Don Luigi on June 24, 2016, 05:00:28 AM
Thanks JD. Margherita is still my fave Pizza.
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: arowe724 on June 24, 2016, 05:13:07 AM
Don!
Beautiful pies! I made my first pies in my oven last night. Im going to start a thread for progress reports! What do you use for you're tomato sauce? I used tinned San marzanos with fresh basil then added salt to taste and roughly blended with my hand blender. My wife thinks it's too runny.
This was my first pie. I didn't have time for a long slow ferment so I just did a recipe off of forno bravo website.
Do you have problems with soot? I used a mix of kiln-dried Birch and heat logs. But when I add the Birch it creates alot of soot. So when I add a Birch log o have to wait for a few minutes for it to burn off. Then cook a pie. The heat logs I can't recommend enough!
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Icelandr on June 24, 2016, 09:58:44 AM
Don, once again beautiful pies, once again jealousy !

Once again, questions to selfishly wring out your knowledge to help my pursuit of your pizza quality and consistency.  I have difficulty still with consistent baking unrelated to wine consumption . . . My last bake was first pie just about where I wanted it, the second was blonde, though I had added some wood after the first bake. Perhaps, grasping at straws, the size of the wood I am using has a bearing. The pieces I cut range from 3-4 cm and less and are about 30 cm long. I am using Garry Oak and it is very dry and burns well and cleanly. I wonder if larger section makes for more consistent heat. Yes, now that I pose the question, I can change that in a couple of days to try it out, but ask for your experience.

Cheers, Thanks for your time
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Jackie Tran on June 24, 2016, 10:16:10 AM
Very very nice Don Luigi.  I like seeing the progression of your pies.  Wish I could my NPs to look like that.
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: parallei on June 24, 2016, 12:08:54 PM
Very very nice Don Luigi.  ......... Wish I could my NPs to look like that.

+1
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Don Luigi on June 25, 2016, 02:15:01 AM

Don!
Beautiful pies! I made my first pies in my oven last night. Im going to start a thread for progress reports! What do you use for you're tomato sauce? I used tinned San marzanos with fresh basil then added salt to taste and roughly blended with my hand blender. My wife thinks it's too runny.
This was my first pie. I didn't have time for a long slow ferment so I just did a recipe off of forno bravo website.
Do you have problems with soot? I used a mix of kiln-dried Birch and heat logs. But when I add the Birch it creates alot of soot. So when I add a Birch log o have to wait for a few minutes for it to burn off. Then cook a pie. The heat logs I can't recommend enough!

Tomatoe Sauce. I use different kinds of italian Pelati. San Marzanos are great but I had the biggest success so far with Delmonte brand. I add a pinch of salt and sugar to taste and carefully blend them with a stick blender.
Your Pie looks good but a little pale. I think you need to preheat longer/hotter and you need more flame atop the Pie. I don't think Birch is a good wood for Pizza. It has this oily sootiness to it. I can't recommend beech enough if you can find it. It grows everywhere here and burns very hot and clean if dry.
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Don Luigi on June 25, 2016, 02:28:13 AM

Don, once again beautiful pies, once again jealousy !

Once again, questions to selfishly wring out your knowledge to help my pursuit of your pizza quality and consistency.  I have difficulty still with consistent baking unrelated to wine consumption . . . My last bake was first pie just about where I wanted it, the second was blonde, though I had added some wood after the first bake. Perhaps, grasping at straws, the size of the wood I am using has a bearing. The pieces I cut range from 3-5cm and less (for quick heat up) and are about 30 cm long. I am using Garry Oak and it is very dry and burns well and cleanly. I wonder if larger section makes for more consistent heat. Yes, now that I pose the question, I can change that in a couple of days to try it out, but ask for your experience.

Cheers, Thanks for your time

Icelandr, thanks for the nice comments. I am using beech wood, it is known here for burning very hot and clean. The logs I use these days are about 20-30cm in length and about 3-6cm in diameter too. Usually when I finish a pie I put one or two on and reduce the air flow with the door so they are burning but are not done already when I am launching the next pie. When they are burning with alot of flane and the front thermometer is in the 420-450 range I am good to go. If not I add smaller pieces before launch and quickly add some air with the PP Blow pipe. Actually the worst pie is usually the first I do if I haven't waited long enough. They get better bake by bake as the oven heats up and is saturated more with heat.
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Don Luigi on June 25, 2016, 02:29:16 AM

Very very nice Don Luigi.  I like seeing the progression of your pies.  Wish I could my NPs to look like that.

Thanks Jackie!
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Don Luigi on June 25, 2016, 02:30:08 AM

+1

Grazie!
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: arowe724 on June 25, 2016, 06:23:11 AM
Tomatoe Sauce. I use different kinds of italian Pelati. San Marzanos are great but I had the biggest success so far with Delmonte brand. I add a pinch of salt and sugar to taste and carefully blend them with a stick blender.
Your Pie looks good but a little pale. I think you need to preheat longer/hotter and you need more flame atop the Pie. I don't think Birch is a good wood for Pizza. It has this oily sootiness to it. I can't recommend beech enough if you can find it. It grows everywhere here and burns very hot and clean if dry.

Thanks for your advice. This was my last pie, the flames were rolling for the rest . I only did a 4hour dough ferment, my son decided he wanted pizza when I got in from work at 2pm. So made the dough at 2 and by 7 the pizza was cooking. I lit the oven for half hour in the middle then half hour at the back. My oven is 70cm deep by 40cm wide. Im waiting for my IR thermometer to arrive so I was guessing temps. I think the oven was around 450 because my thermometer on the Door was off the scale! I don't know Wether to try the fire at the side rather than across the back wall.
Thanks for your advice man.
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Simone on June 25, 2016, 10:26:14 AM
Don Luigi
amazing pizzas  :drool: :drool:
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Don Luigi on July 10, 2016, 01:58:11 PM
New pies today. Great dough. 67% hydrated Caputo Pizzeria. 3% Dolcedo SD, 26 Hour ferment at about 21-22*C.
Super hot oven. These were about 40 second bakes. Creamy, moist and tender.
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Simone on July 10, 2016, 06:01:08 PM
divine!!!
invite me to dinner  ;D ;D
Title: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Don Luigi on July 11, 2016, 03:56:21 AM
Thanks Simone! You are always welcome ! bring some fiorentine steaks as a dessert...;-)
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: f.montoya on July 11, 2016, 09:11:06 AM
Damn!! They don't get any better than that, Don.
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Don Luigi on July 11, 2016, 01:15:05 PM
Thank you Fidel! Still alot of room for improvement, though. But it's a damn tasty strive for perfection...;-)
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: sub on July 17, 2016, 04:02:36 AM
Hi Don,

If you want to try a good fior di latte I found a webshop in Germany.

http://amatulli.de/fior-di-latte-agerola.html

Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Don Luigi on July 17, 2016, 11:59:48 AM
Hi Don,

If you want to try a good fior di latte I found a webshop in Germany.

http://amatulli.de/fior-di-latte-agerola.html

Thanks for that link Sub. Definitely will be ordering some!
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: MotoMannequin on July 17, 2016, 10:47:22 PM
Beautiful pies Don!
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Don Luigi on July 28, 2016, 12:49:52 PM
Some Pies of yesterday. 4%SD, 62 Hydration, Caputo Pizzeria as usual. They were very nice. I still can not decide between about 62% and higher Hydrations in the 66-68%. I like both a lot.
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: TXCraig1 on July 28, 2016, 01:11:56 PM
Very nice.
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Sirius on July 28, 2016, 04:40:59 PM
Hey Don, your Pizze are my pizza party bench mark! Irgendeine Chance wie ich an etwas deiner Kultur komme?
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: italdream on July 28, 2016, 05:18:45 PM
Nothing special, just my usual Pies

"Nothing Special" LOL
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Lagwepe on July 31, 2016, 12:24:48 PM
Hi Don Luigi,

I have been lurking your topic for a while and I have to admit that you're a proper artist. I am soon going to get the Pizza Party. You will be the pizzaiolo I will benchmark myself against :).

Nothing short of superb, really!  :drool:
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Don Luigi on August 02, 2016, 11:14:20 AM
Thanks my friends for the nice comments. Glad to inspire!
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Simone on August 04, 2016, 09:58:55 AM
invite me to dinner  ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Don Luigi on August 10, 2016, 07:36:56 AM
Ciao Ragazzi,
Back from northern Italy Holiday (Lago Maggiore). Time for Pizza! New fantastic olive oil, new truffel oil from Piemont and some Cirio Tomatoes. These were fine eating!
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: LaLabbo on August 10, 2016, 08:26:07 AM
simply amazing
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: TXCraig1 on August 10, 2016, 08:30:13 AM
Great pies brother!
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Icelandr on August 10, 2016, 09:41:23 AM
Wonderful! Another round of inspirational pies!
Such consistent baking! Fire management.
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Sukillavaan on August 10, 2016, 11:39:17 AM
Perfetto! You win.
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Lagwepe on August 10, 2016, 12:39:32 PM
This is simply fantastic!  :drool:
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: invertedisdead on August 10, 2016, 02:17:45 PM
They all look great but wow, that first margherita looks exceptional!
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: parallei on August 10, 2016, 02:31:56 PM
Looking good, Don Luigi. :chef:
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: HansB on August 10, 2016, 02:56:42 PM
Looking good, Don Luigi. :chef:

^^^  :chef: :chef:
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Don Luigi on August 11, 2016, 11:14:43 AM
Thank you friends for the nice comments!
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: LPE427 on August 11, 2016, 02:24:43 PM
amazing looking pies.
perfection  ^^^

what temperature do you maintain your pizza party oven on?
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: fexxi on August 11, 2016, 05:49:22 PM
Your pies look amazing! They are perfect.

I was wondering how you get these into the Pizza Party because they look pretty big. What peel do you use?
Are your 67-68% hydration doughs a lot softer than your 62% doughs?
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Simone on August 12, 2016, 01:30:57 AM
 :drool: :drool: :drool:
Title: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Don Luigi on August 15, 2016, 03:26:07 PM
amazing looking pies.
perfection  ^^^

what temperature do you maintain your pizza party oven on?

Thanks man! I am going for about 480-520*C on the Saputo Floor with flames always rolling across the dome. Key to a perfect bake in a small oven like this is to always be attentive to have your top and bottom temperatures in balance!
Title: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Don Luigi on August 15, 2016, 03:43:52 PM
Your pies look amazing! They are perfect.

I was wondering how you get these into the Pizza Party because they look pretty big. What peel do you use?
Are your 67-68% hydration doughs a lot softer than your 62% doughs?

Thanks!!! My Pies are between 28- 32cm diameter after baking. I use a 30cm wooden peel and I still dress the Pizza on the peel. Since I saw Franco Pepe doing the same I don't feel as bad about it anymore ;-)
High Hydration is softer more creamy, lighter in texture but also in taste. "Lower" Hyration at about 62% has more taste and ever so slightly stronger texture. I like both. Strangely I like either at about 62% or at about 67-68%.
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: LPE427 on August 18, 2016, 06:08:15 AM
Thanks man! I am going for about 480-520*C on the Saputo Floor with flames always rolling across the dome. Key to a perfect bake in a small oven like this is to always be attentive to have your top and bottom temperatures in balance!

That's what I am achieving as well but man, turning the pizza to be even from all the sides is bothering me.
Just got a very small round peel to try if it will be easier to turn it that way.
Title: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Don Luigi on August 18, 2016, 02:49:49 PM
New round of Pizza! This time it's Strutto time. Fellow member Antilife posted alot about using Strutto/Lard in his dough so I wanted to try it out myself. Went to the butcher and bought some "Schmalz" (that's how us germans call it). Dough Formula

62.5% Water
Caputo Pizzeria
5% Ischia
Tiny bit of IDY since my SD wasn't overly active
2% Strutto (pig fat, lard or however you wanna call it)
2.7% Salt

21 Hours at ambient temp, about 10 hours in Balls.

Those were really nice. Strutto is kind of a booster of everything. The dough tastes more (not better essentially), the fast 40 sec pies were even softer, the 70-80 second pies had a more pronounced slight crispness on the shell of the pie. Leoparding is pronounced. It's slightly heavier in feel and texture though - so of course it's definitely and by no means essential to a great Pizza to use it, but I really liked it and I am sure I will repeat it.

Some pics. The Mushroom Pizza. Boy, was it good...;-)
Title: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Antilife on August 18, 2016, 03:51:24 PM
Fantastic Pizzas Don, i'm very happy you liked Strutto. Don't care of Disciplinary... don't care about closed mind of people..use your sense , the taste in primis. Traditions live in the old recipes .... not in a piece of paper
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: TXCraig1 on August 18, 2016, 04:46:17 PM
Dang it. I was really hoping you wouldn't like it. Now I'll have to try it  :-D
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: parallei on August 18, 2016, 05:18:47 PM
Dang it. I was really hoping you wouldn't like it. Now I'll have to try it  :-D

  :o  Not me.  I'll save the added calories for truly empty ones, like wine or bourbon. ;)
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Don Luigi on August 19, 2016, 01:56:23 AM
Dang it. I was really hoping you wouldn't like it. Now I'll have to try it  :-D
Definitely worth trying out! Let us know what you think of it, Craig!
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Don Luigi on August 19, 2016, 02:02:24 AM
  :o  Not me.  I'll save the added calories for truly empty ones, like wine or bourbon. ;)

It adds 27kcal per Pizza. Come on, let's not be pedantic ;-)
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: IIFYMpizza on August 19, 2016, 06:09:53 AM
Truely artistic Don. 27 kcal you say? I might have to try it. The mushroom pizza is just mozzarella, mushrooms and EVOO?
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Don Luigi on August 19, 2016, 06:21:51 AM
Truely artistic Don. 27 kcal you say? I might have to try it. The mushroom pizza is just mozzarella, mushrooms and EVOO?
Thanks!
I added 15 gr Strutto to the whole dough which makes a total 135 kcal to the whole dough, divided by 5 it makes 27kcal per Pie.
The Mushroom Pie is Mushrooms, Mozz, Parmigiano, Pepper and Truffle Oil (that post bake). Credit goes to Craig. One of my fave toppings ever!
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Icelandr on August 19, 2016, 10:15:23 AM
Don Luigi . . . The favourite pie in this house is also mushroom, cut thick and thin as suggested in a post by by Craig, while here it is coupled with a little mild Italian sausage meat AND Taleggio DOP. Everyone who tries it remarks on the fantastic melt and taste of the cheese. I hope you'll try it and let me know what you think. I use a small amount about 3/4 fresh mozzarella 1/4 (perhaps 1/3)Taleggio.

Not yet ready for strutto . . . That would take the mix to 5 ingredients, I still seem challenged by 4!
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: f.montoya on August 19, 2016, 10:28:02 AM
I just got home from Italy. Having sampled half a dozen places in Napoli, as well as sticking my head into kitchens, and eating pies from a few of the legendary places, this particular pie of yours could have been in any of of them. Wish I could have tasted it. It is a work of art...

Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: parallei on August 19, 2016, 11:17:55 AM
It adds 27kcal per Pizza. Come on, let's not be pedantic ;-)

I was just being silly!  Though I do need to pay attention to the size of my belly. :(

Your mushroom pie is truly beautiful. :chef:
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Falcor on August 19, 2016, 11:39:06 AM
Quote
Don Luigi
...Strutto is kind of a booster of everything. The dough tastes more (not better essentially), the fast 40 sec pies were even softer, the 70-80 second pies had a more pronounced slight crispness on the shell of the pie....

  That was also precisely my experience with adding Lard to my neapolitan dough...pizzas look great!
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Don Luigi on August 19, 2016, 11:48:26 AM
Don Luigi . . . The favourite pie in this house is also mushroom, cut thick and thin as suggested in a post by by Craig, while here it is coupled with a little mild Italian sausage meat AND Taleggio DOP. Everyone who tries it remarks on the fantastic melt and taste of the cheese. I hope you'll try it and let me know what you think. I use a small amount about 3/4 fresh mozzarella 1/4 (perhaps 1/3)Taleggio.

Not yet ready for strutto . . . That would take the mix to 5 ingredients, I still seem challenged by 4!

Never had Taleggio on a Pizza. Sounds like a good idea to try out!
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Don Luigi on August 19, 2016, 11:49:11 AM
I just got home from Italy. Having sampled half a dozen places in Napoli, as well as sticking my head into kitchens, and eating pies from a few of the legendary places, this particular pie of yours could have been in any of of them. Wish I could have tasted it. It is a work of art...
Thank you Fidel. That's a very flattering comment!
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Don Luigi on August 19, 2016, 11:51:13 AM
I was just being silly!  Though I do need to pay attention to the size of my belly. :(

Your mushroom pie is truly beautiful. :chef:

Sure :-) Thank you for the nice comments!
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Don Luigi on August 19, 2016, 12:24:39 PM
  That was also precisely my experience with adding Lard to my neapolitan dough...pizzas look great!
Thanks alot!
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: LPE427 on August 19, 2016, 01:06:41 PM
This time it was super soft and foldable.
too bad I had maybe a little bit more starter than I should as it was more in the sour side.

Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: LPE427 on August 19, 2016, 05:20:25 PM
..
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: TXCraig1 on August 19, 2016, 08:23:41 PM
I just got home from Italy. Having sampled half a dozen places in Napoli, as well as sticking my head into kitchens, and eating pies from a few of the legendary places, this particular pie of yours could have been in any of of them. Wish I could have tasted it. It is a work of art...

Having made that pizza almost every time I've ever made pizza, I can say that that particular pizza is one of the finest examples of that pizza I've ever seen. I don't know exactly why, but getting perfect crust coloration like that on that pizza is exceedingly difficult.
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Don Luigi on August 22, 2016, 03:03:49 PM
Having made that pizza almost every time I've ever made pizza, I can say that that particular pizza is one of the finest examples of that pizza I've ever seen. I don't know exactly why, but getting perfect crust coloration like that on that pizza is exceedingly difficult.
Wow, thanks alot Craig! And yes I share your experience. I think white pies in general are more difficult to get the perfect crust colour. I am baffled as to why as well but often they come out paler than I want them to be.
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: TXCraig1 on August 22, 2016, 03:22:51 PM
Wow, thanks alot Craig! And yes I share your experience. I think white pies in general are more difficult to get the perfect crust colour. I am baffled as to why as well but often they come out paler than I want them to be.

I've noticed a similar phenomenon. My guess is it has something to do with the lack of steam from the sauce otherwise found on red pies. 
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Weber Dude on August 22, 2016, 06:00:12 PM
Don, what's on the mushroom pizza? Looks delicious!

Thanks Nate
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Don Luigi on August 23, 2016, 11:38:21 AM
Don, what's on the mushroom pizza? Looks delicious!

Thanks Nate
I wrote it earlier already, it's Mozzarella, Mushrooms, Parmigiano and pepper prebake. White Truffle Oil postbake.
Title: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Don Luigi on September 18, 2016, 06:42:39 AM
Some random pics from my last bake. Visually definitely not my best but they were some fine eating anyway! The oven was a little too hot! Got a new supply of very dry wood and need to get used to the high heat it produces in a short amount of time. The wood I was using lately was cut by myself, was cut to bigger junks and it was dry but not like this stuff!
If you are on the lookout for awesome canned Tomatoes in Germany give the Napolina a try. Thick, ripe and sweet! Up there with the San Marzanos I had so far!
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Icelandr on September 18, 2016, 11:32:19 AM
Once again, those are beautiful pies! You win again! No, it is not a competition, but easy to compare my results with yours especially when it seems we were baking the same night, - when should we bake again? I was enjoying a glass or two of Ravenswood Zinfandel . . . And you?

Seeing all that wood on the tarp made me nervous, I came home to find a surprise rain had soaked my wood stacked up for the bake.

Cheers, nice work, thanks for posting
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Don Luigi on September 19, 2016, 02:40:09 PM
Once again, those are beautiful pies! You win again! No, it is not a competition, but easy to compare my results with yours especially when it seems we were baking the same night, - when should we bake again? I was enjoying a glass or two of Ravenswood Zinfandel . . . And you?

Seeing all that wood on the tarp made me nervous, I came home to find a surprise rain had soaked my wood stacked up for the bake.

Cheers, nice work, thanks for posting

Hi Icelandr!
thanks, I haven't been fully satisfied with that bake though...;-) My next one 's hopefully Sunday...what about you? I need my Pies once a week or at least once every two weeks...;;-) the wood is dry and safely stored under my terrace ready for the coming bakes and heating my ass this coming fall and winter!
I had some cold Coronas with lemon slices while baking! Not the best of all drinks or beers but damn refreshing. Kind of junk drink but nice once in a while!
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: SAUZER.ITALY on September 26, 2016, 07:17:33 AM
Hey my friend!  ;D
With pleasure I see that you always do the most beautiful pizzas!
Very nice pizza with mushrooms and one with the rocket .. ^^^
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Don Luigi on September 26, 2016, 01:04:53 PM
Hey my friend!  ;D
With pleasure I see that you always do the most beautiful pizzas!
Very nice pizza with mushrooms and one with the rocket .. ^^^
Thank you my friend!
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Simone on September 27, 2016, 09:01:59 AM
 :chef: :pizza: :drool: :chef: :pizza: :drool:

Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Sirius on September 28, 2016, 04:05:37 AM
Where did you get the napolina tomatos and how much are they? Never saw them before...
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Don Luigi on September 28, 2016, 04:45:26 PM
Where did you get the napolina tomatos and how much are they? Never saw them before...
I bought them at a local Edeka. They are really, really good. Cooked some pasta sauce today with them - same conclusion: ripe and sweet. Beautiful!
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Don Luigi on October 02, 2016, 01:19:59 PM
Today's Pies! Learned a thing  or two again today.
- I really like high Hydration
- Storing the dough balls lower than room temp (around 16-18*C) really is the best. As Craig always wrote! Dough is workable and bakes really fine.
- It's really important to have fire all along the side of the Pizza Party, especially in the back end AND close to the door.
Those were some of my best ever and pretty much had most of the attributes I really want to see in my Pizza. Soft, yet slightly crispy shell of the cornice, very light and easy to digest. Great tomatoes too (Napolina from local Edeka)!
Dough:
Caputo Pizzeria
70% Hydration
4% SD
0.02% IDY
2.7% Salt
11 hours at around at 20*C, 9 Hours in Balls at 16-18*C
check these out!

Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: schold on October 02, 2016, 02:55:39 PM
Very impressive!
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: IIFYMpizza on October 02, 2016, 05:46:17 PM
Wow i love the last pic. I also try to increase my hydration, baked some 68% pies today and they were not bad. Team (higher) hydration  :chef:
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Icelandr on October 02, 2016, 06:10:21 PM
Don Luigi . . . . . Can't you just switch to knitting or something? You are making it very hard for us new guys to catch up!  OK, OK, mighty fine Pizza! Well done (again!)


Edited to ask a question, - as I look back at my last bake, I used .015% IDY and note you have used 4% SD AND .02% IDY over the same approximate time frame. I felt my % yeast was about right but should perhaps increase?
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Don Luigi on October 03, 2016, 02:12:53 PM
Wow i love the last pic. I also try to increase my hydration, baked some 68% pies today and they were not bad. Team (higher) hydration  :chef:
Thank you! I said it before, but really, I really prefer the 68-70% Hydration range or lower like 60-63%.
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Don Luigi on October 03, 2016, 02:15:13 PM
Don Luigi . . . . . Can't you just switch to knitting or something? You are making it very hard for us new guys to catch up!  OK, OK, mighty fine Pizza! Well done (again!)


Edited to ask a question, - as I look back at my last bake, I used .015% IDY and note you have used 4% SD AND .02% IDY over the same approximate time frame. I felt my % yeast was about right but should perhaps increase?
Thank you Icelandr. Please keep in mind that I kept the doughballs for around 8 hours at only 16*C. I also must say that nowadays I really take an overfermented dough to under any day of the week!
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Lewdannie on October 04, 2016, 12:55:59 AM
Dion Luigi,

do you think you could post an updated photo or video with your current fire position?

I'm sure I am not the only one who would find that interesting.

Thanks

Dean
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Soulboy on October 04, 2016, 02:33:54 AM
Simply fantastic!!!

/p
Title: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Don Luigi on October 04, 2016, 01:06:10 PM
Dion Luigi,

do you think you could post an updated photo or video with your current fire position?

I'm sure I am not the only one who would find that interesting.

Thanks

Dean

I will try to get a video done of the entire process maybe around x-mas time. I am away from home this autumn for quite some time so Pizza baking needs to take a forced break :-(
My fire position is still the same I just make sure I have fire going all along the left side of the oven, especially close to the door!
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Don Luigi on October 04, 2016, 01:08:03 PM
Simply fantastic!!!

/p
Thanks alot!
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Breadscience on October 04, 2016, 03:05:12 PM
Looks very nice!I never understand why people prefer low hydrations for Neapolitan like 60-63%.Hydration above 70% will always give you much better results if you can handle the dough, which is not so difficult for 70% hydration for Blue Caputo or others 00 flours.Most Neapolitan pizzerias used low hydration 60-63% max to allow staff handle the dough much easier.
Also, how you knead your dough by hand , mixer, do you tried to use autolyse to shorten mix time and dough oxydation?In pizzeries they mixed in very large mixers and batches cold watter often ice cubes to prevent overheating the dough.But how mixing time  effects on crumb and pizza color?For me less mixing, high hydration and autolyse = more open crumb and better taste, this  also valid  for bread.If mixed two doughs  both fermented for same time and temperature but first one mixed intensive in mixer for 10-15min, and second one long autolyse, minimal mixing with couple of foldings , result not be the same right?Many people don't focus on this but this is also important for perfect results.I only know one person(Gsans) in this forum , who does long autolyse for Neapolitan with very good results.
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: pascom on October 04, 2016, 05:46:06 PM
Hello Don,

your pies are great! It is love!  :-[
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: SAUZER.ITALY on October 05, 2016, 02:12:06 AM
wow Don !! margherita top class  ^^^
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: IIFYMpizza on October 05, 2016, 06:02:55 AM
I always wonder how significant is the difference between autolyzed dough vs nonautolyzed when the fermentation is 20+ hours? I've done short autolyze 1,5h with my 12h dough and didnt notice much of a difference. Thoughts? I think autolyzing the dough might be a good idea for a commertial setting. Autolyze the dough overnight and add acvtive agent (yeast/SD) early in the morning.
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: mmille24 on October 05, 2016, 08:02:02 PM
11 hours at around at 20*C, 9 Hours in Balls at 16-18*C

Beautiful pizzas. Are you able to stretch at 16-18C without issue? Why not the other way around? Wouldn't they be easier to stretch if the warmer temperature were done in balls?
Title: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Don Luigi on October 06, 2016, 01:38:00 AM
Looks very nice!I never understand why people prefer low hydrations for Neapolitan like 60-63%.Hydration above 70% will always give you much better results if you can handle the dough, which is not so difficult for 70% hydration for Blue Caputo or others 00 flours.Most Neapolitan pizzerias used low hydration 60-63% max to allow staff handle the dough much easier.
Also, how you knead your dough by hand , mixer, do you tried to use autolyse to shorten mix time and dough oxydation?In pizzeries they mixed in very large mixers and batches cold watter often ice cubes to prevent overheating the dough.But how mixing time  effects on crumb and pizza color?For me less mixing, high hydration and autolyse = more open crumb and better taste, this  also valid  for bread.If mixed two doughs  both fermented for same time and temperature but first one mixed intensive in mixer for 10-15min, and second one long autolyse, minimal mixing with couple of foldings , result not be the same right?Many people don't focus on this but this is also important for perfect results.I only know one person(Gsans) in this forum , who does long autolyse for Neapolitan with very good results.

Thanks Berk!
Actually I really like "lower" hydration as well, around 61-63. Hydration level is definitely not the only hallmark of a great dough to me. I either do 61-63 or around 70 of Hydration, the in between is kind of a non-interest zone for me. I got the impression that lower hydrations have a slightly stronger taste while higher Hydration are superior in texture.
I knead by hand and I definitely don't overwork the dough. When I started with neapolitan dough 3-4 years ago I used to do a short autolyse of about 30 minutes to one hour but I skipped this completely after a while. Nowadays, I add salt to the flour and and yeast/sourdough to the water (froth it up some with a whisk) then put everything relatively quickly together (now and then will add Strutto) mix until its all one mass, put on the counter, do Richard Bertinet style (but a little less brutal) slap and fold for about 2-3 minutes until I feel the dough coming together. Let rest for 10 minutes. Stretch and fold, let rest for 10 minutes, stretch and fold -> ferment!
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Don Luigi on October 06, 2016, 01:39:34 AM
I always wonder how significant is the difference between autolyzed dough vs nonautolyzed when the fermentation is 20+ hours? I've done short autolyze 1,5h with my 12h dough and didnt notice much of a difference. Thoughts? I think autolyzing the dough might be a good idea for a commertial setting. Autolyze the dough overnight and add acvtive agent (yeast/SD) early in the morning.
I used to do short autolyse years ago but never felt a big difference to non-autolysed dough. I never tried longer autolysis though.
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Don Luigi on October 06, 2016, 01:40:12 AM
Hello Don,

your pies are great! It is love!  :-[
Thank you. yes, it's a passion!
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Don Luigi on October 06, 2016, 01:40:32 AM
wow Don !! margherita top class  ^^^
Thanks my friend!
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Don Luigi on October 06, 2016, 01:44:02 AM
Beautiful pizzas. Are you able to stretch at 16-18C without issue? Why not the other way around? Wouldn't they be easier to stretch if the warmer temperature were done in balls?
I always did the othercway around but I really liked this process a little more I think. Stretching worked nicely with this temperature it was not like a dough out of the fridge. My dough is usually very soft especially at this hydration and I actually prefered the slightly more stiffness due to colder dough. At room temp it often stretches too easily - almost by only looking at it ;-)
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: pascom on October 06, 2016, 04:36:50 AM
Thank you. yes, it's a passion!

I order the same wood fire oven, also bronze  ;D but the pies will not be as beautiful as yours   ::)
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Icelandr on October 06, 2016, 01:40:54 PM
A question if I may Don Luigi,  . . . . . As I push the hydration higher, the last being 68%, the only real hassle I am having is when forming the balls. Either the dough should not still be "sticky" or I have to use quite a bit of flour on my hands to ball the dough. After that, it is in the containers and rests more behaved. Is your dough sticky at that point or do you have to deal with it with flour or water on your hands.
The last action before it sits in bulk is 3 stretch and folds with 10 minutes between.

Thanks for your time again
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Don Luigi on October 06, 2016, 01:56:02 PM
A question if I may Don Luigi,  . . . . . As I push the hydration higher, the last being 68%, the only real hassle I am having is when forming the balls. Either the dough should not still be "sticky" or I have to use quite a bit of flour on my hands to ball the dough. After that, it is in the containers and rests more behaved. Is your dough sticky at that point or do you have to deal with it with flour or water on your hands.
The last action before it sits in bulk is 3 stretch and folds with 10 minutes between.

Thanks for your time again

Hi Icelandr,
same here. After bulk fermenting high hydration doughs I lightly dust the workbench with flour and then lightly dust all individual balls with as much flour I need and as little I can get away with. But the dough is surely sticky at this point.
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: sub on October 07, 2016, 03:47:07 AM
Icelandr look this video of Ciro

https://youtu.be/jxTOr1CpEt8 (https://youtu.be/jxTOr1CpEt8)

The dough is always a bit sticky, from Ciro's point of view a good dough should always be at the limit of workability.

You can do an autolyse before kneading, the dough will be a bit easier to handle.
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Icelandr on October 08, 2016, 12:09:10 AM
Thank you once again Sub, you always have information to call on to reply to a question . .  Me, at this point I only have questions!
Once again as I have likely expressed, I wish I had more languages! I am so impressed with the ability of servers in various countries to be able to make people comfortable by speaking their language. The distance between languages and borders in Europe is very small, one can travel from country to country, with a significant change in language in a very short time, here I have to drive for 6 days to reach an area of Canada that speaks French, our second official language. There is little incentive, apart from intellectual, to grasp, let alone be fluent in another language.
I digress, not uncommon I suppose.
Thank you for the link to the video, my take . . .  Cover the bancone with flour and deal with it!

Cheers . . . A long time since Belgium . . . .  1967, when I was 19!
Title: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Don Luigi on October 15, 2016, 03:50:02 AM
Some Pies from a couple of days ago. again 70% Hydration, 5%SD, tiny bit of idy. Ferment at about 18*C for about 20 hours. This could become my new go to!
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: IIFYMpizza on October 15, 2016, 04:41:11 AM
Don you wont stop to amaze me, what a beautiful pies. Your pizzas makes me want to give a sourdough another try. Going to start the culture today in maybe 2 weeks we'll see what comes out of this.
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: HansB on October 15, 2016, 05:59:25 AM
Beautiful! I need a trip to Germany.
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: pascom on October 15, 2016, 04:24:15 PM
mammamia!  :-[
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: rsaha on October 17, 2016, 08:38:32 AM
Not much to say except WOW!
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Lewdannie on October 18, 2016, 01:19:32 AM
mix until its all one mass, put on the counter, do Richard Bertinet style (but a little less brutal) slap and fold for about 2-3 minutes until I feel the dough coming together. Let rest for 10 minutes. Stretch and fold, let rest for 10 minutes, stretch and fold -> ferment!

Don Luigi, just to confirm, you only do one slap and fold, the next 2 are stretch and fold?

Thanks  Dean
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: SAUZER.ITALY on October 18, 2016, 05:20:45 AM
 ^^^Wow !! beautiful all pizzas! Leopard very pronounced and perfect cooking. We see that the yeast worked well.  :pizza:
Big Don !!!
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: mmille24 on October 21, 2016, 01:20:24 AM
Why any IDY? Are you not getting the rise you want without it? Why not increase the SD%?
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: IIFYMpizza on October 21, 2016, 03:39:01 AM
I am sure Don is going to give his reasons for adding yeast to the dough besides SD, but i found that increasing SD when it isnt fully potent negatively inpacts the gluten structure in the dough and makes it less workable, especially with higher hydration doughs. Don is working with 70% which i consider to be very high hydration.
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: HansB on October 21, 2016, 08:58:37 AM
For SD bread baking it is not uncommon to see formulas that add .2% IDY.
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Neopolitan on October 25, 2016, 11:39:23 AM
Malzeit!!! :drool:
Title: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Don Luigi on November 20, 2016, 01:13:52 PM
After being away from home for over a month without Pizza I was really happy today to finally be able to bake and eat some fine Pizza again. These turned out just how I like them! Light, airy and tender.
Formula was:
68% Hydration/6% Ischia/tiny bit of IDY/2.8%Salt. 21 Hours Ambient Temp Ferment. I was happy to see I still could do it after such a long time without baking :-)
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: SAUZER.ITALY on November 21, 2016, 02:21:58 AM
wow Don !!  ^^^ very nice margherita and good Leopard  :pizza: :pizza:
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: IIFYMpizza on November 21, 2016, 08:53:02 AM
Quality pies Don, i'd love to try your pizza out one day
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Lagwepe on November 22, 2016, 07:47:52 AM
Absolutely stunning!  :drool:
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Don Luigi on November 22, 2016, 02:25:22 PM
Thanks for the nice comments everybody!
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Don Luigi on November 22, 2016, 02:27:37 PM
Don Luigi, just to confirm, you only do one slap and fold, the next 2 are stretch and fold?

Thanks  Dean

Yes! I do one round approx 2-3 minutes of slap and fold a la Bertinent until the dough really unifies. Then 2 rounds of stretch and fold with 5 minutes of dough rest in between. Usually, at this point my dough is silky smooth.
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Don Luigi on November 22, 2016, 02:29:53 PM
Why any IDY? Are you not getting the rise you want without it? Why not increase the SD%?
I just overcome the sluggishness of my sourdough cultures especially during cold weather by adding tiny amounts (around 0.01%) of IDY. My results became really predictable now and the taste doesn't suffer the slightest.
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Icelandr on November 22, 2016, 03:37:01 PM
Once again, very nice work! The break from pizzamaking did nothing to change the quality of the product but I can certainly see how it would make you very keen to get back at it.

Cheers
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Don Luigi on November 23, 2016, 02:05:07 AM
Once again, very nice work! The break from pizzamaking did nothing to change the quality of the product but I can certainly see how it would make you very keen to get back at it.

Cheers

Cheers Icelandr!
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Don Luigi on December 18, 2016, 04:52:01 AM
Pies of yesterday. My brother in law and his girlfriend were here and we enjoyed those pies quite a bit. After that we had some fine barrel proof Bourbon (hint, hint, Craig!) Temperatures were frosty in Germany and I wonder if the low outside temperature in Germany led to the pronounced leoparding of some of the pies. Formular was:
68% Water, Caputo Pizzeria, 5% Ischia Culture, 2.7% Salt. My go to SD only dough. Ischia was plenty active and fermented the dough nicely.
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: SAUZER.ITALY on December 18, 2016, 11:42:48 AM
Top pizzas my friend!  :drool:
Beautiful to look at and safe good to the palate.
sure that the external temperature affect the ripening of the dough.
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: thezaman on December 18, 2016, 02:55:52 PM
wow, three beautiful pizzas those would be my choices if eating in a pizzeria. the onions on your pistachio pizza are they pre-cooked at all?
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: pascom on December 19, 2016, 04:45:30 AM
These three pizzas!  :drool:
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Don Luigi on December 19, 2016, 02:19:12 PM
Top pizzas my friend!  :drool:
Beautiful to look at and safe good to the palate.
sure that the external temperature affect the ripening of the dough.

Thank you my friend! Yeah, lower temperatures of course have effect on fermentation. Theoretically, though I should have approximately the same temperature in my house as in summer time, but practically it seems not. My Sourdough is alot slower in winter.
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Don Luigi on December 19, 2016, 02:19:25 PM
Top pizzas my friend!  :drool:
Beautiful to look at and safe good to the palate.
sure that the external temperature affect the ripening of the dough.

Thank you my friend! Yeah, lower temperatures of course have effect on fermentation. Theoretically, though I should have approximately the same temperature in my house as in summer time, but practically it seems not. My Sourdough is alot slower in winter.
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: TXCraig1 on December 19, 2016, 02:20:35 PM
Sweet and sweeter.  ;D
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Don Luigi on December 19, 2016, 02:22:23 PM
wow, three beautiful pizzas those would be my choices if eating in a pizzeria. the onions on your pistachio pizza are they pre-cooked at all?
Thanks alot thezaman! The Margherita and the Mushroom Pizza a la Craig are definitely my favourite Pies!
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Don Luigi on December 19, 2016, 02:25:06 PM
These three pizzas!  :drool:

Thanks alot!
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Don Luigi on December 19, 2016, 02:25:48 PM
Sweet and sweeter.  ;D

Thank you Craig. The Stagg went down nicely with those Pies....:-)
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Simone on December 20, 2016, 11:26:21 PM
10+ :chef: :chef:
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: robertscalchi on January 02, 2017, 06:03:09 PM
Don the characteristics of yours and Craigs pies are the benchmark of excellence to strive for :chef:
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: pascom on January 03, 2017, 02:29:06 AM
Happy new year DL.

Usually you cook at how many degrees? 400°C? More?
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: TXCraig1 on January 03, 2017, 05:09:57 PM
Happy new year DL.

Usually you cook at how many degrees? 400°C? More?

On the biscotto Saputo, I like 500C +/- measured in the middle of the deck with an IR thermometer. This gives me a 50 second +/- bake.
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: pascom on January 03, 2017, 05:47:25 PM
On the biscotto Saputo, I like 500C +/- measured in the middle of the deck with an IR thermometer. This gives me a 50 second +/- bake.

Thank Craig  ;)
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Don Luigi on January 04, 2017, 02:59:47 AM
Don the characteristics of yours and Craigs pies are the benchmark of excellence to strive for :chef:

Thanks alot! Craig's and Omid's Pies have always been my benchmark and I still think I have some Pies to bake to rival their excellence!
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Don Luigi on January 04, 2017, 03:03:18 AM
Happy new year DL.

Usually you cook at how many degrees? 400°C? More?

Similiar to Craig the 480-530*C is the range I go for on the deck. The built in oven thermometer usually shows 400-450*C.
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: pascom on January 04, 2017, 06:36:19 AM
Thanks DL ;)
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Don Luigi on February 19, 2017, 05:20:54 PM
Made some Pies this Friday! Was really satisfied with the outcome. I used german biological flour from Alnatura for these and was stunned by the results. It baked perfectly and tasted awesome. I mixed the very soft Type 405 (60%) with the stronger Type 550 (40%). Fermented 20 hours (12 Bulk/8 Balls) at about 20*C ambient temp. 6% Ischia and 0.03% IDY. 66% Water.
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Simone on February 20, 2017, 04:41:13 AM
 :chef: :drool: :drool: :drool:
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: SAUZER.ITALY on February 20, 2017, 06:09:43 AM
My friend ! I really like your margherita ! and congratulations for the flour you are using. :pizza:
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: JD on February 20, 2017, 08:28:57 AM
Stunning!
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: la_marziana on February 20, 2017, 07:04:58 PM
beautiful!!
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Don Luigi on March 03, 2017, 02:40:46 PM
More experiments with different flours. This time standard Flour type 405 from german discounter Lidl with some additional semolina added in. Not bad but a little dry and bread-like as you can see on the crust shot. But definitely usable and eatable I'd say. Pretty much my standard formula with 66% Hydration/7%SD 20 hour ferment.
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: TXCraig1 on March 03, 2017, 04:18:27 PM
Beautiful pizza!
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Don Luigi on March 04, 2017, 12:45:49 PM
Beautiful pizza!
Thanks Craig. These weren't my best for sure but given the flour I used I was very satisfied - almost suprised as to how good they came out...More bread-like and less soft than Caputo but absolutely usable.
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Simone on March 05, 2017, 02:29:49 AM
excellent :chef: :pizza:
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Don Luigi on March 17, 2017, 03:23:14 PM
Pies of today. Absolutely great dough. Very light, tender and aromatic Pizza. 70/30 of Alnatura 405/550 Flours. This Flour is as good or better than Caputo Pizzeria. Germans, check it out! It's all biological too! Else it was 8% Ischia Sourdough and 66% water. 22 Hours at 21*C. 10 hours in Balls.
I got a new camera. so sorry for the toying around photos...;-)
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Jon in Albany on March 17, 2017, 03:31:13 PM
Those are beautiful.
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: parallei on March 17, 2017, 04:36:20 PM
Those are beautiful.

 ^^^ :drool:
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: SAUZER.ITALY on March 18, 2017, 03:54:12 AM
Don !! Amico mio ! An excellent level these pizzas!  :pizza: :pizza:
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: schold on March 18, 2017, 02:42:51 PM
Nice work, Don. The Rosa is truly a great pie, and I had to make it tonight after seeing your post.
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: TXCraig1 on March 18, 2017, 03:07:25 PM
That's one of the best looking expressions of the Rosa that I've seen.
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Simone on March 19, 2017, 03:19:35 AM
 :pizza: :chef: :drool: :drool: :drool: :drool: :drool: :drool:
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Don Luigi on March 19, 2017, 10:55:14 AM
Those are beautiful.
Thank you!
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Don Luigi on March 19, 2017, 10:56:53 AM
Don !! Amico mio ! An excellent level these pizzas!  :pizza: :pizza:
Grazie Mille, Renato!
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Don Luigi on March 19, 2017, 10:59:21 AM
Nice work, Don. The Rosa is truly a great pie, and I had to make it tonight after seeing your post.
Nice to read you Schold and thanks! While the Rosa is not my favorite Pie I really like to make it now and then. It's a good tasting pie that is visually very appealing.
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Don Luigi on March 19, 2017, 11:00:03 AM
That's one of the best looking expressions of the Rosa that I've seen.
Thank you Craig. I'm flattered.
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Don Luigi on April 01, 2017, 03:43:23 PM
New Pies. Great, beautiful weather. Used the first chives from the garden. Dough was very good. 8%SD, 66% Water, Alnatura Flour, 22 Hours fermentation. Very tasty. Loved the chives Pie.
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: HansB on April 01, 2017, 03:49:49 PM
Very nice!
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: norma427 on April 01, 2017, 07:41:20 PM
New Pies. Great, beautiful weather. Used the first chives from the garden. Dough was very good. 8%SD, 66% Water, Alnatura Flour, 22 Hours fermentation. Very tasty. Loved the chives Pie.

Don,

Delicious looking pizzas!  :chef:

Norma
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Jackie Tran on April 01, 2017, 09:46:29 PM
They look prettier and prettier with every bake. 
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: pizapizza on April 03, 2017, 01:21:04 AM
do you put the tomatoes on raw?
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Don Luigi on April 03, 2017, 02:29:13 AM
Very nice!

Thanks alot!
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Don Luigi on April 03, 2017, 02:30:03 AM
Don,

Delicious looking pizzas!  :chef:

Norma

Thank you Norma. Those Pies were definitely eatable...;-)
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Don Luigi on April 03, 2017, 02:31:33 AM
They look prettier and prettier with every bake.

Thanks Jackie! Well, getting a new camera helped a little making them look prettier too! But I was very satisfied with this batch. Visually and taste wise!
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Don Luigi on April 03, 2017, 02:33:22 AM
do you put the tomatoes on raw?

I marinate them a couple of hours before baking with thinly sliced garlic and olive oil. On the Pie I at sone salt. That's it.
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: SAUZER.ITALY on April 04, 2017, 05:53:12 AM
Don !!!  :drool: you are Napolitan man  :chef:
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Icelandr on April 07, 2017, 12:28:00 AM
Excellent looking Pies, especially after my tonight's disaster, I had to look at yours for solace!
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Don Luigi on April 07, 2017, 03:04:36 PM
Excellent looking Pies, especially after my tonight's disaster, I had to look at yours for solace!

Thanks Ice! To quote a famous movie: Sometimes you eat the bear, and sometimes, well, he eats you.
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Don Luigi on April 07, 2017, 03:08:01 PM
New round of Pies today! My current fave formula using Alnatura Flour and 66% Hydration. This flour is really great. I say it again: It bakes perfect, is as soft as Caputo and is stronger and more flavourful in taste! Absolutely awesome! Check it out!
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Icelandr on April 08, 2017, 12:30:51 AM
Excellent!




Thinking of your comment about the Bear, I prefer the rendition by Dire Straits . . .  "Sometimes you're the windshield, sometimes you're the bug" but thank you for the reminder, it is all a learning process.
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Wario on April 09, 2017, 01:07:03 PM
Wow! Impressive pizza baking skills!
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: TXCraig1 on April 09, 2017, 02:19:22 PM
I love that first one absolutely beautiful. Arugula pre-bake?
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Don Luigi on April 09, 2017, 05:23:25 PM
I love that first one absolutely beautiful. Arugula pre-bake?
Thanks! It's actually more or less a Margherita with Arugula, Parma Ham, Parmigiano and (more) Olive Oil added post bake. It was one of my best looking pies so far for sure and taste wise very fine as well!
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Simone on April 10, 2017, 07:26:41 AM
 :chef: :pizza: :drool: :drool: :drool:
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Lagwepe on April 10, 2017, 12:35:50 PM
They all look absolutely fantastic! Can you deliver in the UK?!  :drool: :-D
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: rrpizza on April 10, 2017, 08:33:09 PM
How hot are your stones when you are baking your pizzas?

Thanks!
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Lagwepe on April 11, 2017, 12:19:34 PM
Another question for you: can you touch the outside of the oven (top and side) without burning your hands? Do you know how hot it gets?
I am just starting fires in my Pizzone and only reached 250 degrees Celcius so far and it's been quite hot - more than I thought it would.

Thanks  :)
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Don Luigi on April 14, 2017, 01:00:32 PM
How hot are your stones when you are baking your pizzas?

Thanks!

I bake between 480-530*C on the (Saputo Floor)
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Don Luigi on April 14, 2017, 01:02:06 PM
Another question for you: can you touch the outside of the oven (top and side) without burning your hands? Do you know how hot it gets?
I am just starting fires in my Pizzone and only reached 250 degrees Celcius so far and it's been quite hot - more than I thought it would.

Thanks  :)

Top and side get to about 60*C maybe. Never measured but I never burned my hands on the outside, so...
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Don Luigi on April 14, 2017, 01:03:01 PM
Wow! Impressive pizza baking skills!
Thanks alot!
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Don Luigi on April 18, 2017, 04:07:49 PM
New round of Pies from the craziest April day since a long time. Snow, rain and sunshine with about 15*C all on the same day. Back to Caputo Pizzeria Flour. Coming back to an old friend. Alnatura Flour is a great alternative to Pizzeria though. 68%. 10% SD, 22 Hours ferment at ambient temperature. The Chives/Buffalo Mozz Pie is probably my favourite topping ever. It's out of this world in it's perfect simplicity.
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: TXCraig1 on April 18, 2017, 04:32:25 PM
My 3 favorite pies in stunning perfection.
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: invertedisdead on April 18, 2017, 04:39:04 PM
Maestro!  :chef:
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: parallei on April 18, 2017, 05:09:30 PM
Nice work. :chef:

Snow, rain and sunshine with about 15*C all on the same day.

Sounds like a spring day here in Denver!
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Lagwepe on April 19, 2017, 04:19:20 AM
Wonderful! What's the third one? Buffalo Mozzarella, sliced mushrooms... and any specific oil?
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: pizzadaheim on April 19, 2017, 02:01:51 PM
Super markus! Im letzten Monat gab es frühjahrsmarkt in Euerdorf. Wir hätten einen valoriani Holz Ofen mieten und Napoli Pizza verkaufen können. Was sagst du für den nächsten frühjahrsmarkt?
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: PizzaManic on April 20, 2017, 05:29:27 AM
New round of Pies today! My current fave formula using Alnatura Flour and 66% Hydration. This flour is really great. I say it again: It bakes perfect, is as soft as Caputo and is stronger and more flavourful in taste! Absolutely awesome! Check it out!

That 2nd pic Sir looks absolutely perfect - well done  :drool:
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: pascom on April 26, 2017, 04:34:09 PM
Incredible but true!  :drool:
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: schold on April 26, 2017, 05:14:45 PM
The Chives/Buffalo Mozz Pie is probably my favourite topping ever. It's out of this world in it's perfect simplicity.

They all look great! Who invented the latter mentioned pie, by the way? I've read it somewhere, but I forgot - was it someone on this forum, perhaps? Anyway, it looks like have the same special relationship with that pizza as I have developed with the Rosa. Do you use any Parmesan cheese on it?
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: heyerok on May 28, 2017, 01:14:25 AM
More experiments with different flours. This time standard Flour type 405 from german discounter Lidl with some additional semolina added in. Not bad but a little dry and bread-like as you can see on the crust shot. But definitely usable and eatable I'd say. Pretty much my standard formula with 66% Hydration/7%SD 20 hour ferment.

Don - Amazing work. I've just begun spending a lot of time here in Germany and want to start experimenting with Neapolitan and even without access to a WFO sometimes a similar "Nearlypolitan" style. In the states I like to blend a 00 pizza flour with KAAP or something with malted barley to help with the char in a home oven that doesn't reach WFO temps...

Question for you: Do you know if the Alnatura 550 contains malted grains or are you aware of a German flour that might? Otherwise I'll probably try the 405/550 mixture you're working with but would like to find something that's more suitable for a home oven and still achieves something close to a neapolitan style.

Thanks for your help!
Erik
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Don Luigi on June 01, 2017, 03:46:28 PM
Thanks for all the flattering words friends and sorry for not responding in a while - I've been a busy bloke lately, however I didn't stop to make Pizza - just didn't post about. I am back to Caputo Pizzeria now and between it and the Alnatura (which is unmalted as any floor in Germany) there's barely a difference. I really like both of these flours!
Here are some latest Pizzas. Pretty consistent I'd say seeing that these are from different sessions. The latest batch was 68% Water, 6% (very active) SD, Pizzeria, 22 Hours Ferment at room temp. These days I really prefer to work with dough that is a couple degrees below room temp (put the balls down to the cellar for thst). Just gives you more control when spreading the dough.
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: TXCraig1 on June 01, 2017, 05:00:15 PM
Stunning as always.
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Pete-zza on June 01, 2017, 07:04:51 PM
Stunning as always.

 ^^^

Peter
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: JD on June 02, 2017, 09:13:01 AM
Consistently awesome
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Simone on June 03, 2017, 02:22:48 AM
10+++++++ :drool: :chef:
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: schold on September 22, 2017, 03:34:38 PM
Hi Don! Which type of Alnatura flour do you use?
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: George_M on September 23, 2017, 03:18:55 PM
Excellent pies!!
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Don Luigi on December 07, 2017, 10:33:36 AM
Wow, didn‘t post in a long while but still was actively making Pizza - just not as often as last year. Also tons of work to do and have been alot away from home. I had some Problems with fire wood as well but now got a healthy new supply of beech wood. Grows like crazy here and is the best imho!
Anyhow, recipe has stayed the same. Caputo Pizzeria lately again, 65-68% Hydration, 6-8% Sourdough, 2.7% Salt and a tiny bit of dry yeast to “boost” the SD a little in the colder season. 22 Hour room temp. 12 in Bulk, 10 in Balls.
Enjoy those pics. The first photos are frim my latest bake last week!
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Jon in Albany on December 07, 2017, 10:35:10 AM
Absolutely beautiful looking pizza.
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: CaptBob on December 07, 2017, 11:28:29 AM
Absolutely beautiful looking pizza.

 ^^^!
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: TXCraig1 on December 07, 2017, 12:20:34 PM
Simply awesome.
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: hotsawce on December 07, 2017, 01:15:33 PM
How long did these bake for? stunning pies..

Wow, didn‘t post in a long while but still was actively making Pizza - just not as often as last year. Also tons of work to do and have been alot away from home. I had some Problems with fire wood as well but now got a healthy new supply of beech wood. Grows like crazy here and is the best imho!
Anyhow, recipe has stayed the same. Caputo Pizzeria lately again, 65-68% Hydration, 6-8% Sourdough, 2.7% Salt and a tiny bit of dry yeast to “boost” the SD a little in the colder season. 22 Hour room temp. 12 in Bulk, 10 in Balls.
Enjoy those pics. The first photos are frim my latest bake last week!
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: bradtri on December 07, 2017, 06:05:25 PM
NV

lest anyone misinterpret this ... I am green with envy ...   :D
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: TXCraig1 on December 07, 2017, 07:29:55 PM
NV

lest anyone misinterpret this ... I am green with envy ...   :D

 :-D
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: pizzadaheim on December 08, 2017, 03:51:43 AM
Bravo Markus! Hast schön gemacht!
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: fdmason on December 08, 2017, 10:21:45 AM
Caputo Pizzeria lately again, 65-68% Hydration, 6-8% Sourdough, 2.7% Salt and a tiny bit of dry yeast to “boost” the SD a little in the colder season. 22 Hour room temp. 12 in Bulk, 10 in Balls.
What's room temperature where you are? I find it can vary greatly in different parts of the world. And the starter is ischia?
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Simone on December 10, 2017, 03:41:24 PM
 :pizza: :chef: :drool: :drool: :drool: :drool: :drool: :drool: :drool: :drool: :drool: :drool: :drool: :drool: :drool: :drool: :drool:
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: TimSt on March 29, 2018, 03:45:03 PM
Bumping this thread to say thanks to @Don Luigi. Just purchased my Pizza Party Bollore a few weeks ago, and fired it up for the first time last week.  Using a formula from here, did my first Neapolitan pizzas: 750g Caputo Chef’s flour, 510g water, 45g Ischia SD, 20.25g salt, 8 hours bulk and 14 hours balled at RT resulted in a few fine Margherita pizzas. Picture is of my very first.  Still have to work on getting the pizza in the oven and turning it, but very happy with the result. I’ll be trying wood in a couple of weeks after I get the handling aspects down a bit better.  Thank you Don Luigi and all who have contributed to this thread.
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Simone on March 30, 2018, 09:24:20 AM
 ^^^
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: inutero303 on May 14, 2018, 09:43:29 PM
Don Luigi very fast neapolitan pizza! amazing video
 ;DJD interesting customized peel

is this gas or wood? thanks
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Simone on May 15, 2018, 02:31:39 AM
Don Luigi have 70x70
https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=36320.0
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Don Luigi on May 15, 2018, 03:42:04 AM
Yes, using the 70x70 with the Saputo Floor and still absolutely love it! Woodfired!
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: inutero303 on May 15, 2018, 04:48:59 PM
did u have to buy the Seputo floor separately ? .. did it come with it ?
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: TXCraig1 on May 15, 2018, 07:37:53 PM
did u have to buy the Seputo floor separately ? .. did it come with it ?

He got them after the oven: https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=36320.msg409672#msg409672

You should read this thread from one end to the other. It's an awesome resource for using the PP with wood.
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: inutero303 on May 15, 2018, 07:52:36 PM
He got them after the oven: https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=36320.msg409672#msg409672

You should read this thread from one end to the other. It's an awesome resource for using the PP with wood.

craig i think u are the god of pizzaforum .. they should be paying u a salary my man  ^^^ :chef:
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: inutero303 on May 15, 2018, 08:37:32 PM
Thanks! arowe724 - glad to help. I don't preheat this long in the center anymore. Maybe 25 minutes then to the side until I get solid 500*C. Adding 3-4 smaller, ruler-sized chunks of wood in between bakes...If I overheat the stone (no concern with the Saputo) I leave the door open without adding new wood for 5-10 minutes.

u have to add a chunk of wood everytime u fire a new pizza ?
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Icelandr on May 15, 2018, 11:09:27 PM
Sorry for the interjection . . .but
It is important to read some of the threads that most pertain to your plans and interests - in their entirety. Yes, they can be a long read but in my mind are very often better than a book, this is real world, post all the triumphs and ugly bits. There is rarely, this is how to do it, but a running commentary on progress and experiments. There is learning evident. Read stuff, try stuff, have a good look at what others have done, read their posts, it is great stuff!
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: inutero303 on May 16, 2018, 04:06:17 AM
ready for tomorrow...

my disks are getting pretty flat on the trays after 12 hrs and becomes really hard to pill off the tray.. any advice ? .. should i re ball it ?

Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: inutero303 on May 16, 2018, 08:08:33 AM
Do this look normal ? .. 65%H 1%culture 2.5%salt . bulk 24hrs ball 12hrs .. at 65-67deg .. theres a lot of air inside of them .. i think maybe a little be overproof .. but man the disk are so big .. im hoping to use this method for big parties where i need to use trays and i cant put each balls in a little containers for 100ish pizzas ..
any help will be really appreciate it

best

TIn

Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: vtsteve on May 16, 2018, 09:23:52 AM
Those are the Dough Mate boxes, right? Do you have the little putty knife/dough scraper? (If not, just get a 4" putty knife).

There are plenty of videos of people cutting blown out, grown-together balls and making pizzas out of them, it's just a fact of life if you're making lots of pies working out of dough boxes.


Another (MUCH cheaper!) option is to proof on half-sheet pans with covers; they're stackable, roomier (so you can keep the doughs further apart) and the low sides make it a snap to get under the dough without mangling it.

Don't sprinkle flour on the doughs until you're ready to open them - they'll get crusty/gummy. Moist on top is good at this stage!

The third photo here shows 6 doughs on a half-sheet:  https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=48384.msg521760#msg521760
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: inutero303 on May 16, 2018, 09:39:54 AM
Those are the Dough Mate boxes, right? Do you have the little putty knife/dough scraper? (If not, just get a 4" putty knife).

There are plenty of videos of people cutting blown out, grown-together balls and making pizzas out of them, it's just a fact of life if you're making lots of pies working out of dough boxes.


Another (MUCH cheaper!) option is to proof on half-sheet pans with covers; they're stackable, roomier (so you can keep the doughs further apart) and the low sides make it a snap to get under the dough without mangling it.

Don't sprinkle flour on the doughs until you're ready to open them - they'll get crusty/gummy. Moist on top is good at this stage!

The third photo here shows 6 doughs on a half-sheet:  https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=48384.msg521760#msg521760


oh i see .. so its perfectly normal for them to be that after such a long balled fermentation .. its my first time trying this method , i usually let them chill for 2-3 hrs before baking , never did a 12hr balled fermentation .. 
I guess if there really close to each other it will help so they dont spread too much .. i seen those full trays before , u have to kind of cut them cuz they stick a bit
thanks for the flour tip !

Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: inutero303 on May 16, 2018, 09:42:42 AM


This is EXCELLENT advice, and the above thread is fun and a fast read. When I found the forum I spent a couple MONTHS reading down the topics that were of immediate interest, and finding other topics that became new interests, before I even posted... starting as a sourdough/ self-built brick oven bread baker, so not a newbie by any means.
[/quote]


Believe me i been spending way too much time on this forums ,. like my wife is kind of pissed off .. hahahah
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: vtsteve on May 16, 2018, 09:45:15 AM
I wouldn't reball any closer than 8 hours to the bake; the dough will be harder to open because you've just tightened it up.

Caught me mid-edit, quoting Icelander!


Quote
Believe me i been spending way too much time on this forums ,. like my wife is kind of pissed off .. hahahah

Yeah, my wife moved into the "acceptance" stage while I was still mostly doing bread, and building the oven...   :-D

I've never heard of someone saying "My baking hobby saved my marriage."
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: inutero303 on May 16, 2018, 09:53:05 AM
thanks for yer help ! ;D
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: inutero303 on May 16, 2018, 02:41:03 PM
Well ,  finally baked them .. not too bad ..

Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: sk on August 23, 2018, 01:15:11 PM
Hi there.  Going over posts for Pizza Party Pizza Oven.  Yours shows a picture of the inside of the oven.  How did you get the fire so far over to the side?  My fire seems to really get close to the pie.
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Simone on August 26, 2018, 12:42:49 AM
sk, you use the Spartifiamma?
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: sk on August 26, 2018, 08:29:34 AM
I have tried to do so but can't seem to get it far enough over to get the peel and pie in the small door.  Do you push it close enough to touch the side on the bottom part of the device?
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Simone on August 30, 2018, 11:42:29 AM
send me image of your fire or a video of your inside of oven when you cook pizza
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: wotavidone on August 30, 2018, 07:43:27 PM

Don't sprinkle flour on the doughs until you're ready to open them - they'll get crusty/gummy. Moist on top is good at this stage!

I've taken to skipping the flour altogether, too. I watched quite a few Italian how-to videos, and seldom do you see flour in the tray.
Like you say, they don't put them in flour until they are ready to open them.
I'm opposed to fats in my dough, but I have compromised a little. I use a light spray of cooking oil in the tray to prevent sticking and a very light mist over the tops of the balls as insurance against the balls skinning up. Then take them out with a 4 inch paint scraper/putty knife. Then a little bench flour to open them.
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: sk on September 01, 2018, 09:33:35 PM
@Simone:

Here is the inside with the guard.  I pushed it over as far as possible.  It restricted the fire a little.


Also, a picture of the oven in my outdoor space which I though you might like.
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Simone on September 02, 2018, 10:33:27 AM
Hi SK
beautiful location! if possible send me if you have other images of your outdoor cooking area
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: sk on September 02, 2018, 11:06:29 AM
Hi Again Simone, picture below.
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Don Luigi on November 12, 2018, 03:29:46 PM
Wow, haven‘t posted here in a long time and didn‘t reply to a couple of questions - I am very sorry for that. Had a super busy year. Of course I still made quite a lot of Pizza whenever I had the time. In the Pizza Party Woodfired Oven or in my new Pizza Party Ardore Gas Oven - check this thread here: https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=54874.0
Below are a couple of Pies I did last year in my Pizza Party WFO. Fire managment, routine and recipe is still pretty much the same as usual. I uped the SD Culture now to kind of like 8-10% recently. I absolutely prefer over fermented dough to liveless underfermented one. So it‘s like: 21-24 Hours Room Temp ferment (at least 8 Hours in Balls), 65-68% Hydration, Caputo Pizzeria Flour, 8-10% Ischia SD, 2.7% Salt. WFO heated with bone-dry beech wood. Floor between 480-530*C. Check these out. The first margh is probably one of my favourite Pies ever of mine!

Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Icelandr on November 12, 2018, 09:02:32 PM
Don Luigi, your pies look fantastic as always, busy or not! Here I am, Gleefully Retired, all the time in the world perhaps and I can’t seem to catch up! Your thread started this Pizza Party for me and I am still enjoying the pursuit, the oven and the challenge. Good to see a couple of new posts
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Don Luigi on November 18, 2018, 09:39:34 AM
Don Luigi, your pies look fantastic as always, busy or not! Here I am, Gleefully Retired, all the time in the world perhaps and I can’t seem to catch up! Your thread started this Pizza Party for me and I am still enjoying the pursuit, the oven and the challenge. Good to see a couple of new posts

Hi Ice, thanks for the nice words. Your latest bakes look great and I am glad I could lure you into the Pizza Party! I am trying to post a little bit more regulary now again!
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: phillypizzafan on November 28, 2018, 12:11:37 PM
So it‘s like: 21-24 Hours Room Temp ferment (at least 8 Hours in Balls), 65-68% Hydration, Caputo Pizzeria Flour, 8-10% Ischia SD, 2.7% Salt. WFO heated with bone-dry beech wood. Floor between 480-530*C. Check these out. The first margh is probably one of my favourite Pies ever of mine!

Don,
Amazing pies! I have really enjoyed reading through your journey here.

I am new to SD so have a silly question. When someone says "8-10% Ischia SD", is that total SD / total flour?  Does total flour include the flour in the SD?

Example,

Say I start with 600g of flour and then want to add 10% SD. Should I add 60g of SD to the 600 (bringing the new total to 660)? Or should I downsize my original weight to 540g so when I add 60g of SD, it's 10% of the new total?

Or is this based on total weight and not just weight of flour?

Any help appreciated. Thanks.

Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: Don Luigi on November 28, 2018, 03:37:32 PM
Don,
Amazing pies! I have really enjoyed reading through your journey here.

I am new to SD so have a silly question. When someone says "8-10% Ischia SD", is that total SD / total flour?  Does total flour include the flour in the SD?

Example,

Say I start with 600g of flour and then want to add 10% SD. Should I add 60g of SD to the 600 (bringing the new total to 660)? Or should I downsize my original weight to 540g so when I add 60g of SD, it's 10% of the new total?

Or is this based on total weight and not just weight of flour?

Any help appreciated. Thanks.

It’s the % of total flour weight. For 1kg of Flour 10% SD would mean 100gr of SD Culture. You could up your salt a bit if using that much SD but I never do. The SD adds a level of flavour that never made me feel I should put more salt into the dough.
Title: Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
Post by: phillypizzafan on November 28, 2018, 04:24:20 PM
It’s the % of total flour weight. For 1kg of Flour 10% SD would mean 100gr of SD Culture. You could up your salt a bit if using that much SD but I never do. The SD adds a level of flavour that never made me feel I should put more salt into the dough.

Got it. Thanks so much!