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Offline werty20

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no raise
« on: October 31, 2017, 05:23:09 PM »
hi
i plane 50hours @ 7c
but i get no rise  , 0.16 idy 3% salt
when i move it to 22-24c i start to see some rise
if it bad or weak yeast how it didn't work at 7c for 50 hours

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Re: no raise
« Reply #1 on: October 31, 2017, 06:09:55 PM »
7C is actually too low to see much, if any, yeast activity (it's the temperature of the fridge), whereas 22 to 24C is the temperature at which we typically mix our doughs to so we get much better yeast activity at that temperature. Additionally, 3% salt with 0.16% IDY is most likely exhibiting a suppressing effect upon yeast activity, especially at 7C/44F.
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Offline werty20

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Re: no raise
« Reply #2 on: November 02, 2017, 06:43:21 AM »
7C is actually too low to see much, if any, yeast activity (it's the temperature of the fridge), whereas 22 to 24C is the temperature at which we typically mix our doughs to so we get much better yeast activity at that temperature. Additionally, 3% salt with 0.16% IDY is most likely exhibiting a suppressing effect upon yeast activity, especially at 7C/44F.
Tom Lehmann/The Dough Doctor
many thanks
how much yeast for 48-72 hours .. 3% salt

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Re: no raise
« Reply #3 on: November 02, 2017, 10:11:13 AM »
For a typical dough formulation made with 3% salt (too salty for me :( ) and 48 to 72-hours at 7C I would opt for 0.5% IDY. But depending upon the actual temperature of the fridge (they do vary) this might need to be adjusted by 0.1% in either direction. This is assuming the dough is properly managed too.
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Offline werty20

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Re: no raise
« Reply #4 on: November 06, 2017, 03:04:27 PM »
For a typical dough formulation made with 3% salt (too salty for me :( ) and 48 to 72-hours at 7C I would opt for 0.5% IDY. But depending upon the actual temperature of the fridge (they do vary) this might need to be adjusted by 0.1% in either direction. This is assuming the dough is properly managed too.
Tom Lehmann/The Dough Doctor
i try 2.6% salt , 0.3 idy
final dough temp +80
after 24 hour still no rise at all
will try 0.4 next time
=
can i freeze the opened yeast envelope ? or how i store it

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Online The Dough Doctor

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Re: no raise
« Reply #5 on: November 06, 2017, 10:52:52 PM »
Werty20;
With 0.3% IDY and 24-hours at room temperature with an 80F finished dough temperature  and NO RISE your yeast is "kaput". Freezing bad yeast won't make it any better. To save unused IDY, leave it in the original bag, roll the bag down tightly onto the yeast and secure with a rubber band and store at room temperature.
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Offline werty20

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Re: no raise
« Reply #6 on: November 06, 2017, 11:29:04 PM »
Werty20;
With 0.3% IDY and 24-hours at room temperature with an 80F finished dough temperature  and NO RISE your yeast is "kaput". Freezing bad yeast won't make it any better.
Tom Lehmann/The Dough Doctor
no , im sorry
2.6 salt , 0.3 idy ,  finished dough tmep +80 .. and 7c as the same post , sorry again

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Re: no raise
« Reply #7 on: November 06, 2017, 11:54:28 PM »
Your finished dough temperature was 80F, what was at 7C (44.6F)?  Is this the temperature of the cooler/fridge? Even then, after 24-hours you should be seeing some increase in the size of the dough balls and the dough should open pretty easily. If the dough is tough and elastic when opening there is a problem with the yeast.
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Offline werty20

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Re: no raise
« Reply #8 on: November 16, 2017, 05:47:19 AM »
0.3 idy "new" , 2.6 salt , 2 oil , 2 sugar
water + sugar + flour for 20min , idy + 95-100f water , mix for 2 min , salt then oil
finished dough temp was about 80f
after 24 hour no rise again
dough temp ~7c .. chk it with IR and thermometer
it start to rise in 75f
« Last Edit: November 16, 2017, 09:12:27 AM by werty20 »

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Re: no raise
« Reply #9 on: November 16, 2017, 09:22:47 AM »
Can you provide any pictures of the dough balls just as they are going into the fridge and just as you take them out? This might help in figuring out what is going on. Also any information and/or pictures of the IDY container would also help.
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Offline werty20

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Re: no raise
« Reply #10 on: November 16, 2017, 10:02:53 AM »
Can you provide any pictures of the dough balls just as they are going into the fridge and just as you take them out? This might help in figuring out what is going on. Also any information and/or pictures of the IDY container would also help.
Tom Lehmann/The Dough Doctor
sorry didn't take any
but it was very smooth .. i use 68% water and i can make good windowpane
it doubled now .. dough temp IR read 75 , thermometer inside the dough 74
idy .. its this one , bt i use 10g envelops
http://www.pakmaya.com.tr/en/bakery/yeast/instant-dry-yeast/pakmaya-instant-dry-yeast-instant-yeast

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Re: no raise
« Reply #11 on: November 16, 2017, 03:05:18 PM »
I find it interesting that they recommend using 1 to 2% of their IDY. Here in the U.S. our IDY is used at between 1/3 and 1/2 of the compressed yeast level. This means that we are typically looking at 0.25 to 0.5% in pizza dough. Possibly your IDY needs to be used at a higher level? You might try using your IDY at a higher level the next time as well as capturing some pictures.
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Offline werty20

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Re: no raise
« Reply #12 on: November 23, 2017, 02:59:04 PM »
I find it interesting that they recommend using 1 to 2% of their IDY. Here in the U.S. our IDY is used at between 1/3 and 1/2 of the compressed yeast level. This means that we are typically looking at 0.25 to 0.5% in pizza dough. Possibly your IDY needs to be used at a higher level? You might try using your IDY at a higher level the next time as well as capturing some pictures.
Tom Lehmann/The Dough Doctor
many thanks
new one .. 68% water , 0.5 idy , 2.6% salt , 2-3% sugar , 2%oil
will chk it tomorrow
https://imgur.com/a/7CCBo
« Last Edit: November 23, 2017, 05:03:09 PM by Pete-zza »

Offline werty20

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Re: no raise
« Reply #13 on: November 24, 2017, 07:17:13 AM »
same  ??? .. no rise at all !

halted fermentation for 24 hour @7c .. , doubled at 20c in 2-3 hour !

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Re: no raise
« Reply #14 on: November 24, 2017, 11:53:58 AM »
If what you are saying is that again, the dough did not rise at 7C (44.6F) during a 24-hour period but the dough balls doubled in size within 2 to 3-hours at 20C, (68F) this is VERY strange 7C is high for refrigerated dough storage and 20C is low for such vigorous  yeast activity. If your yeast is not tolerant to low temperatures then it would not be performing as it is at 20C. This leads me to believe that something is being overlooked with regard to either the finished dough temperature or the temperature of the fridge.
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Offline werty20

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Re: no raise
« Reply #15 on: November 24, 2017, 12:55:35 PM »
This leads me to believe that something is being overlooked with regard to either the finished dough temperature or the temperature of the fridge.
Tom Lehmann/The Dough Doctor
i chk twice with IR + normal thermometer
even i add frozen shredded mozzarella and tomato sauce beside the dough bowl to see if it will thaw or not .. It took about 7 hours and the chess is soft again

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Re: no raise
« Reply #16 on: November 24, 2017, 09:08:49 PM »
As I indicated in my earlier post there is a possibility that the specific yeast that you are using is less active than what we are used to using here so my advice is to use 1% of your yeast and let's see what happens. Please be sure to take a few pictures of the dough ball just prior to placing in the fridge and then take a couple more pictures of the dough ball after 24-hours in the fridge. Target your finished (mixed) dough temperature for between 75 and 80F.
On a side note: How long are you mixing the dough? IDY should receive a minimum of 4-minutes mixing into the dough. If you are making a yeast suspension of the IDY please let me know exactly how you make the yeast suspension.
Tom Lehmann/The Dough Doctor

Offline werty20

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Re: no raise
« Reply #17 on: November 25, 2017, 03:05:53 AM »
As I indicated in my earlier post there is a possibility that the specific yeast that you are using is less active than what we are used to using here so my advice is to use 1% of your yeast and let's see what happens. Please be sure to take a few pictures of the dough ball just prior to placing in the fridge and then take a couple more pictures of the dough ball after 24-hours in the fridge. Target your finished (mixed) dough temperature for between 75 and 80F.
On a side note: How long are you mixing the dough? IDY should receive a minimum of 4-minutes mixing into the dough. If you are making a yeast suspension of the IDY please let me know exactly how you make the yeast suspension.
Tom Lehmann/The Dough Doctor
thanks
i use the same yeast envelops for 2 years with 0.2-0.3 idy , cf 4-5c .. but i will try
sugar + cold water , add flour and mix by hand , 20m rest .. mix idy with 5 or 10x ~100f water weight for 5 minutes
yeast + dough , mix for 1 or 2 minute then salt , mix again , oil , mix until i get good gluten development and smooth dough ball .. so maybe 6 or 8m mixing time
or .. salt + sugar + cold water , idy + warm water for 5m , add four + idy , mix then add the oil

Offline werty20

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Re: no raise
« Reply #18 on: November 25, 2017, 04:51:25 AM »
i try this 2 methods
and im sure the final dough temp +80f
« Last Edit: November 25, 2017, 04:53:26 AM by werty20 »

Offline werty20

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Re: no raise
« Reply #19 on: December 13, 2017, 01:38:35 AM »
try new one .. increase the yeast to 0.7 idy , decrease the water and salt to 62% , 2%
final dough temp was +80
doubled in 20 hour @ ~7c

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