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Author Topic: First attempt at NY style pie!  (Read 754 times)

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Offline ndujaboy

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First attempt at NY style pie!
« on: January 19, 2018, 10:49:12 PM »
Hi everyone,

I finally found a weekend to dedicate to diving head first into NY style pizza! Any advice, thoughts, or critiques are greatly appreciated!

Dough recipe from Serious Eats NY Style Pizza Dough:

100% KABF
67% Water
5% Olive Oil
2% Sugar
1.5% Salt
1.5% IDY

Mixed in a food processor and divided into two 320 g balls. The one I baked tonight (featured in the attached photos) was in the fridge for a 24 hour CF. The other dough ball will be pulled out tomorrow night. Stretched out to about 12" and baked on a baking steel at 550F for 8 minutes with the broiler on for the last 3.5 minutes.

Overall, I'm pretty satisfied for my first try! The crust was crispy but still had a nice chew, although it was a bit bland. Not sure if the blandness is due to the short CF or if I need to up my salt.

Offline Hermit

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Re: First attempt at NY style pie!
« Reply #1 on: January 20, 2018, 01:18:02 AM »
That is a great first attempt and would say to stick with it and make tweaks as you see fit.  You have some room to work with sugar if you run into a cheese that performs slower than your dough, the oil can also be decreased if you want a bit more chew.  I've personally had troubles with KABF at that high of hydration but if you are handling the dough without issues kudos!!  :chef:

I use 1.5% salt in my dough and find it about right for my sauce but it seems to be a bit too much with hard cheeses and cured meats.  The CF seems to really come through at 4 days, but you would need to reduce the yeast amount considerably.  I like to use TXCraig's yeast prediction sheet and use my refrigerators temperature to judge how much yeast to use at the 4 day mark.

https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,26831.msg349349.html#msg349349

« Last Edit: January 20, 2018, 01:24:52 AM by Hermit »

Offline Dangerous Salumi

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Re: First attempt at NY style pie!
« Reply #2 on: January 20, 2018, 06:12:11 AM »
Good work
Have a Dangerous day!


“They say that competitive eating is the battleground upon which God and Lucifer wage war for mens souls my friends, and they are right.”  - George Shea, Chairman, Major League Eating

Offline Jersey Pie Boy

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Re: First attempt at NY style pie!
« Reply #3 on: January 20, 2018, 07:25:53 AM »
Very nice...uh, it's clear you're new here, and you mention to NY Style, but you are clearly quite a skilled pizzamaker. So, are you an NP guy? Wood-fired? Welcome!

Offline norcoscia

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Re: First attempt at NY style pie!
« Reply #4 on: January 20, 2018, 07:42:16 AM »
Yes, agree Bill, with KABF @ 67% and 5% oil it takes skills to make that work - and he made it work very well - nice job ndujaboy.

I think the pie looks great but since you asked for feed back. Here is some:

I try to stay in the 250g to 280g for a 12 inch NY style pie (see TF chart below). But that is just typical for NY and if you like the crust thicker then the chart and what I do should not matter.

I also do not use olive oil in my dough - just flavorless vegetable oil - I add it as a dough conditioner vice a flavor ingredient - I recommend you try it once you might like the crust flavor more. But many here use it.

The salt looks fine, I use a bit more but that is just a matter of taste. Oil is a tiny bit high for NY but in range for a american style.

Again nice work - and I only supplied comments because you requested them and mentioned NY style - I think your pie looks fantastic.

PS. 1.5 IDY is high unless you keeping everything cold - I use .5 for a one or 2 day CF with a finished dough temperature (out of the mixer) of about 78 degrees.
Norm

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Offline Minolta Rokkor

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Re: First attempt at NY style pie!
« Reply #5 on: January 20, 2018, 09:30:25 AM »
Well, there's nothing wrong with how the pizza looks, or how it was baked. Looks great.
 I would say drop the water to 60% - 62%, and the oil to 1% - 2%, also swap the olive oil to canola or soybean. Increase the salt to 2% - 2.5%. Then, you'll be in "the norm" for NY style dough percentages and ingredients.  I would recommend an extended ferment with less yeast as well.

That's just my opinion not the Gospel per se.


Offline ndujaboy

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Re: First attempt at NY style pie!
« Reply #6 on: January 20, 2018, 10:30:17 AM »
Actually, I'm very new to pizza making as well as to the forum! I've made a couple of Sicilian style pizzas, but this is my first attempt at anything that requires actual shaping. I've done quite a bit of reading both on here and various other online resources before this attempt, so that may help to explain the solid results.

I appreciate all of the feedback so far! I'll definitely lower the hydration and swap out the olive oil for something else on the next go. My sauce definitely could be improved as well. Any tips on how to best handle honing in on a dough recipe? I'm a scientist by day so I'm a bit hesitant to go and change multiple variables at once (scientific method, yadda yadda yadda...), but at the same time it seems like lots and lots of pizza dough if I change one variable at a time (not that that is necessarily a bad thing!). I've also been taking detailed notes to keep track of my progress.

Offline norcoscia

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Re: First attempt at NY style pie!
« Reply #7 on: January 20, 2018, 11:02:33 AM »
The best way for me to move my pie closer to my happy spot is to capture what I don't care for when I'm eating my pizza or what I think is missing - step two is to think through what should be changed in my recipe or workflow to adjust the finished product closer to what I think is best.

I'm not sure if you are cooking on a screen or using parchment paper - if you are you will be OK with a much thinner crust (if you plan to go thinner). But if you are launching from a peel onto a stone or steel the thinner you go and the bigger the pie gets really lowers your chances of a problem free launch into the oven.

For my sauce the single most important thing is starting with tomatoes that taste good, trust me, tomatoes in cans are not created equal - even from the same manufacturer's quality can vary since it is a agricultural product - amounts of rain and sun - time of year harvested can all impact the quality. That being said, there are a few brands that have never let me down (those same brands have also been the best I have ever tasted from time to time).

Changing one thing at a time is a good plan - sometimes you can change something and not realize it - everything affects the finished pie - even things like how cold your sauce is can make a difference in how the pie cooks. Leave your flour out in a cold garage and the next week use flour from inside the house and your dough will not behave exactly the same. The only thing that is important is it should be fun and you should enjoy the mistakes along with the successes.
« Last Edit: January 20, 2018, 04:33:54 PM by norcoscia »
Norm

Offline Jersey Pie Boy

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Re: First attempt at NY style pie!
« Reply #8 on: January 20, 2018, 04:32:21 PM »
Yes, what Norm said...you're on tweak at a time plan is right on..otherwise, too many factors at play. Yup, you might have to make a  lot of pizza,,,LOL, you'll find no sympathy here :-D >:D


Most impressive...you're doing great!

Offline Essen1

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Re: First attempt at NY style pie!
« Reply #9 on: January 20, 2018, 04:54:21 PM »
Looks great for a first attempt! Keep at it.
Mike

“All styles of pizza are valid. I make the best I’m capable of; you should make the best you’re capable of. I don’t want to make somebody else’s pizza.” ~ Chris Bianco

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Offline Pizzabro

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Re: First attempt at NY style pie!
« Reply #10 on: January 28, 2018, 10:49:33 AM »
I think you made an excellent pizza. The crumb looks great. As others have already commented, the hydration is a little on the high side, but it appears that you had no issues stretching the dough. I would continue experimenting to see if you can improve even further on these results.
My pizza blog- www.therightcrust.com

Offline foreplease

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Re: First attempt at NY style pie!
« Reply #11 on: February 01, 2018, 01:55:33 PM »
For my sauce the single most important thing is starting with tomatoes that taste good, trust me, tomatoes in cans are not created equal - even from the same manufacturer's quality can vary since it is a agricultural product - amounts of rain and sun - time of year harvested can all impact the quality.
Your entire post was good. This point in particular gets overlooked or taken for granted more often than it should. Though it would be more difficult to discern by tasting before one begins making dough, I suspect the same is true to some extent for flour.


We can be as repetitively accurate and faithful to our methods as possible but in the end, it is part art, and the Muse will have her say. When she frowns, enjoyment of the journey and appreciation for what we have learned may be all we have.

-Tony
I find it easier to imagine a diet of nothing but ice cream than one without ice cream

Offline foreplease

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Re: First attempt at NY style pie!
« Reply #12 on: February 04, 2018, 10:38:36 AM »

I suspect the same is true to some extent for flour.
Interestingly, The Dough Doctor recently addresses changes and differences in what most of us think of as the same flour. This may be easier to believe or understand if a bigger example is used. Here is one I heard from one of our WeighMasters in Michigan. In the summer, gypsum board (SheetRock) produced in MI’s upper peninsula is loaded onto trucks and sent south. Michigan has high humidity in summer; the further south you go the worse it is. There have been several cases of trucks that made weight when loaded were overweight by the time they got 2-3 hours south of the bridge - water from the humidity the gypsum board had taken on.


Anyway, this is a good post from Tom.


https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=51223.msg515218#msg515218
« Last Edit: February 04, 2018, 10:46:50 AM by foreplease »
-Tony
I find it easier to imagine a diet of nothing but ice cream than one without ice cream

Offline ndujaboy

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Re: First attempt at NY style pie!
« Reply #13 on: February 10, 2018, 05:21:40 PM »
I appreciate all of the help thus far! Thanks for all of your feedback!  ;D

I finally found the time to give this a go again, but with a bit more of an experimental approach. I made three doughs using the same recipe and workflow I used previously, but each dough had differing levels of hydration. I decided to go with 55%, 60%, and 65% to try to cover a broad range and give myself a good point of reference for future recipe development.

First up is the 65% hydration dough. My first attempt was 67%, but after reading some of your feedback I decided to cap the high range at 65% because it seems that most NY style doughs would never venture up as high as 67% hydration. I also reduced the mass of each dough ball from 320 g to 288 g to try to get a TF a bit more in line with the style. Here is the recipe:

100% KABF
65% Water
1.5% IDY
5% Oil
2% Sugar
1.5% Salt

I ended up reducing my bake time from 8 to 6 minutes at 550F on a baking steel with the broiler on for the final 3 minutes because I wasn't sure what effect the reduced hydration would have on baking. The crust ended up a little under baked for my taste, but wasn't too bad. Overall, this dough had a very soft texture and a dense crumb.
« Last Edit: February 10, 2018, 05:27:26 PM by ndujaboy »

Offline ndujaboy

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Re: First attempt at NY style pie!
« Reply #14 on: February 10, 2018, 05:25:31 PM »
Here is my 60% dough, made using the exact same recipe as above. I ended up baking for 7 minutes under the same conditions rather than 6 and ended up with a crispier crust than in the 65% attempt. I much preferred this dough. The crumb was airier and less dense than the 65% dough. I'll be posting the 55% dough later this evening, but I am suspecting my sweet spot will be somewhere in that 55% to 60% range.

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Offline the1mu

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Re: First attempt at NY style pie!
« Reply #15 on: February 10, 2018, 09:22:16 PM »
Looking good!

I would recommend going longer, like 8 minutes, based on the bottom of the pie in the first pic. Give a chance for the bottom to catch up to the top. You may find the broiler unnecessary as well... but holding off on it for another minute may let the bottom catch up to the top.

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