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Author Topic: Problem when using a dough mixer  (Read 512 times)

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Offline kosmarnik

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Problem when using a dough mixer
« on: January 18, 2018, 12:28:55 PM »
Hi!

I'm having issues trying to mix the dough in my Kenwood Chef mixer. Every time I try, the dough sticks to the hook and it doesn't get mixed, just rides the hook like a merry-go-round.

I usually use 660-1000g of dough. I noticed that the larger batch didn't stick so easily, but it eventually ended on the hook.

My current recipe is as follows:
00 flour 40%
Manitoba flour 60%
62% hydration
3% salt
0.05% IDY

What do you think?




Offline The Dough Doctor

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Re: Problem when using a dough mixer
« Reply #1 on: January 18, 2018, 01:11:09 PM »
The problem stems from a poor hook design...other mixers with a plain "J" hook design similar to yours have the same problem. A couple of things you might try;
1) Mix at a higher speed.
2) Initially use a agitator designed for batter (NOT the whip) and when the dough begins to develop change to the hook and mix at a speed just fast enough to through the dough off of the hook.
3) In many cases the problem can be diminished by mixing a larger size dough.
I would try #1 first. The higher speed will not harm the dough, it will actually give you better gluten development, but listen to your mixer, it will tell you if it is working too hard to mix the dough.
If you use #3 begin your mixing at a lower speed to see if things improve (many time it will) and go to a higher speed ONLY if the dough continues to cling to the hook. Be careful though as the larger dough will put a greater load on your mixer, especially when you mix at a higher speed.
Tom Lehmann/The Dough Doctor

Offline sub

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Re: Problem when using a dough mixer
« Reply #2 on: January 18, 2018, 05:38:28 PM »

My current recipe is as follows:
00 flour 40%
Manitoba flour 60%
62% hydration
3% salt
0.05% IDY

What do you think?

Hi,

In my opinion 60% of Manitoba is way too much for a good neapolitan dough, you should only use 20-30% to reinforce a weak 00 flour.

Offline kosmarnik

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Re: Problem when using a dough mixer
« Reply #3 on: January 18, 2018, 07:24:28 PM »
Hi,

In my opinion 60% of Manitoba is way too much for a good neapolitan dough, you should only use 20-30% to reinforce a weak 00 flour.

Hi Sub!
I used that ratio to get 12.5% protein.
The 00 I got is 10% and manitoba is 14%

If I use 30% manitoba, that would be around 11.2%.
I'll give it a try.

The problem stems from a poor hook design...other mixers with a plain "J" hook design similar to yours have the same problem. A couple of things you might try;
1) Mix at a higher speed.
2) Initially use a agitator designed for batter (NOT the whip) and when the dough begins to develop change to the hook and mix at a speed just fast enough to through the dough off of the hook.
3) In many cases the problem can be diminished by mixing a larger size dough.

Hi Tom,
do you have an example of a proper dough hook? I could try finding one that would fit my mixer.

Thank you both for the advice!
I'll report back after I make my next batch.

Kos

Offline the1mu

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Re: Problem when using a dough mixer
« Reply #4 on: January 18, 2018, 08:26:15 PM »
Hi Sub!
I used that ratio to get 12.5% protein.
The 00 I got is 10% and manitoba is 14%

If I use 30% manitoba, that would be around 11.2%.
I'll give it a try.

Hi Tom,
do you have an example of a proper dough hook? I could try finding one that would fit my mixer.

Thank you both for the advice!
I'll report back after I make my next batch.

Kos
This is a reverse spiral dough hook. But not ever mixed can actually use them.


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Offline kosmarnik

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Re: Problem when using a dough mixer
« Reply #5 on: January 18, 2018, 09:31:09 PM »
This is a reverse spiral dough hook. But not ever mixed can actually use them.
This would be the action I'm looking for.


This would be one for my model:
https://www.kenwoodchefrestore.co.uk/shop/kenwood-chef-dough-hook-spiral

Though, after searching a bit more I found people get the same results with the J hook.

I'll try Toms advice before spending 40 for a hook.

Offline HarryHaller73

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Re: Problem when using a dough mixer
« Reply #6 on: January 19, 2018, 09:53:00 AM »
Home mixers and small quantity of dough will really do very little for gluten strength development, and that's what you see dough just rolling around.

Either increase your dough quantity to fill the bowl more, and/or finish with hand kneading.  Remove from bowl after mix, let sit for 5-10 minutes and then hand knead 20 or so times.
« Last Edit: January 19, 2018, 12:11:18 PM by HarryHaller73 »

Offline Heikjo

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Re: Problem when using a dough mixer
« Reply #7 on: January 25, 2018, 04:35:27 PM »
I got the same problem with my Kenwood Major KM615. I ended up buying a spiral hook which has been working fine. The hook only comes in stainless steel, which is heavier than the hooks that come with the mixer. I haven't had any issues with it yet, but can't say if it's causing more wear than normal. The mixer does jump around a bit. I have however not been mixing too large doughs. Usually 400-500g of flour. Yesterday I made one with 775g of flour, but it's still not enough to make the mixer knead properly. The bowl is simply too large to effectively knead it. A workaround is obviously to make more dough, but I usually don't want to make more than 2x13 NY pies.

I might try increasing the speed so the dough gets thrown off the spiral, but the mixer might jump off the counter then.

I got some vidoes of the spiral hook here: https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=43529

I would be interested if you find some good solution to this issue, whether with the mixer or using hands. I've been considering getting a smaller mixer or just try hand kneading. Maybe not permanently, but perhaps a few times to see if I get different results that way. I don't have too much experience, so I don't really know how a properly developed dough should feel like and what to expect drom the pies. If I do hand knead it and the result is significantly better, it might be worth to pursue, but I think it should be possible with the mixer. One issue is that it's hard to tell just how well the dough has been kneaded, since it sometimes gets stuck on the hook and just spins around. I don't know how long period of lets say a 10 minute mixing period it does this, and it will change from one day to the next.

Offline The Dough Doctor

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Re: Problem when using a dough mixer
« Reply #8 on: January 25, 2018, 05:08:49 PM »
Welcome to the wonderful world of "J" hooks! Now you know why I hate those silly things. They only really work well when mixing a full size dough for the bowl capacity. BTW, it's perfectly normal for a dough mixer to jump around (we call it walking) while mixing a dough. This is why the larger Hobart bench top mixers are all designed to be bolted to the bench top. Even the floor mixers have provision for bolting them to the floor to keep them from walking. Most of the time we just glue the large floor models to the floor using a silicone adhesive as it works just as well. You can also do this with many of the smaller mixers to if they have a tendency to roam. Us a piece of 3/4-inch or 1-inch plywood a little deeper and wider than your mixer (the larger the better) and glue the mixer to it using any good quality silicone adhesive. You can buy 2 X 2 pieces of plywood at most box lumber stores, I just bought a piece at Menards for $7.00. Remember, this does add a new dimension to the portability of the mixer though.
Tom Lehmann/The Dough Doctor

Offline mmille24

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Re: Problem when using a dough mixer
« Reply #9 on: January 25, 2018, 05:53:27 PM »
Get a Bosch Compact

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