Why are Italian restaurants so risk-averse?

[stamina888]

I understand why many restaurants in general are risk-averse.  If you put a creative dish on the menu, it might not sell. A lot of customers, especially if it's their first time, will order a safe dish because they don't want to waste money on a risk.   There are some restaurants that are totally fine with patrons sending back dishes they don't like, and would even encourage people to try new foods for that reason.  But there are also some chefs/managers that will get insulted or offended.  In general, customers don't want to waste food or be a burden, or they fear they'll get a reputation as a Karen for sending a dish back.

But that being said... it seems like Italian places and pizzerias are WAYYYY more safe than most other types of cuisine.  Most dishes are bread, cheese and sauce.  Most of the vegetables are the same 5 vegetables (onions, garlic, etc).  And all pizzerias use the same 10 toppings.  Maybe it's just me being exposed to americanized Italian restaurants, and there are lots of underrated ones that do take risks.  But 80%+ of the ones I've tried are conservative (not in the political sense, but just wanting to serve the same exact food in the 2020's as they did in the 1980's).

[TXCraig1]

99% of "Italian" restaurants in the US aren't.

[bjk]

Your typical red sauce joint or Italian American restaurant is more of a cultural and nostalgic thing than it is a culinary innovator. You're going to find the same things on the menu with maybe a slight change depending on the region. However, you're not going to find the local and seasonal dishes that you will in many establishments in Italy or the more upscale restaurants in the US. Food is a lifestyle and cultural thing that doesn't translate well when crossing borders. Good "deals" and adequate portions heavily dictate the US market, therefore, bringing out the integrity of simple and seasonal ingredients isn't a lucrative venture when it isn't a demand from the consumer.

[stamina888]

That's a true point about price. 

Higher end establishments tend to attract enthusiasts who pay more money for innovation.  Whereas in lower to middle class places in the U.S., people want to spend $10-20, get big portion sizes of things they know they'll like.

I just wish there was more of an in between.  Kind of like with music.  A blueprint for success with popular songs is to make a song that follows most of the conventions, but put a twist in 1-2 areas that makes it unique.  I think this is a great way with food too.

But in many self-proclaimed Italian restaurants in the US, there aren't any twists.

[9slicePie]

but just wanting to serve the same exact food in the 2020's as they did in the 1980's).

If it ain't broken...

[Pizza_Not_War]

Almost every Chinese or Thai restaurant I've ever been to has the same menu. Sure there are some outliers but otherwise darn close. Throw in the Mexican restaurants as well.

How about specific examples of restaurants by name?

[stamina888]

How about specific examples of restaurants by name?

No.  I dont think its fair to single out a handful of restaurants for things thousands of them do.

[Timpanogos Slim]

Almost every Chinese or Thai restaurant I've ever been to has the same menu. Sure there are some outliers but otherwise darn close. Throw in the Mexican restaurants as well.

How about specific examples of restaurants by name?

Most restaurants want to offer something that a majority of people recognize. I recall that anthony bourdain visited an ambitious i believe french restaurant somewhere in the midwest where the chef, after adding some stuff people recognized, ended up putting an entry in the menu that simply read "Something strange but good" for people who are feeling adventurous.

You gotta have the amount of money coming in be larger than the amount of money going out, so one way or another you have to offer a product people want.

[Yael]

The truth is, many (or most?) people don't want anything new... When I was working in my brother's restaurant where we were selling ice cream, we had lots of good and different flavors (chestnut, nougat, raspberry...) but people were still ordering their "vanilla-chocolate". Those two are the one I hate the most, lol. Same for pizza, Regina or 4-cheeses or "kebab"...
A part of this behavior can be explained by the fact that usually, in France - at least in countryside/small cities, families don't go out that often (maybe once a month?), so when they do, they don't want to take "risk" as you guys said above.
Then, once you've been to a certain type of restaurant (Asian, Mexican, Italian...) and enjoyed one of their foods, you'll want to find it again next time you visit the same type of restaurant ("hey, last time I had some spicy XX, do you make it here too?").

[Timpanogos Slim]

The truth is, many (or most?) people don't want anything new... When I was working in my brother's restaurant where we were selling ice cream, we had lots of good and different flavors (chestnut, nougat, raspberry...) but people were still ordering their "vanilla-chocolate". Those two are the one I hate the most, lol. Same for pizza, Regina or 4-cheeses or "kebab"...
A part of this behavior can be explained by the fact that usually, in France - at least in countryside/small cities, families don't go out that often (maybe once a month?), so when they do, they don't want to take "risk" as you guys said above.
Then, once you've been to a certain type of restaurant (Asian, Mexican, Italian...) and enjoyed one of their foods, you'll want to find it again next time you visit the same type of restaurant ("hey, last time I had some spicy XX, do you make it here too?").

This area is somewhat adventurous - mormon missionaries live all over the world and then come back here to go to the university.

There's at least one ice cream shop that always has a wildcard flavor on offer - like basil.

[scott r]

I have tried so many different pizzas and cheese pizza outsells everything by double.   Then pepperoni is always next.  Everything else trails that by a pretty far margin.  Both my pizzerias are in wealthy urban areas with lots of different ethnic restaurant choices around.  I think we would have much more adventurous people there than any of the suburban markets.  Anything I have tried that is out of the ordinary just doesn't sell.   

[bjk]

The classics are classic for a reason.

[waltertore]

I have tried so many different pizzas and cheese pizza outsells everything by double.   Then pepperoni is always next.  Everything else trails that by a pretty far margin.  Both my pizzerias are in wealthy urban areas with lots of different ethnic restaurant choices around.  I think we would have much more adventurous people there than any of the suburban markets.  Anything I have tried that is out of the ordinary just doesn't sell.   

Move out here.  Pepperoni is #1 by far.  Cheese pies are a minority mostly ordered by transplants from the northeast. We only had 9 toppings - sausage, pepperoni, green peppers, mushrooms, onions, black olives, crushed garlic, anchovies, fresh basil, and people would order double and triple toppings. We must have said "no" a hundred times a night to people when they ordered and asked for toppings we didn't have - all the exotic stuff used today along with ranch, which was created here in Reno I am told.   It screwed my shoulders up launching/taking out pies they were so heavy.  I orders some sanded thin peels to help.  A loaded 16" from us, was over 40 dollars and so many were 1/2 and 1/2 which I begrudgingly did (people often asked for each slice to have different toppings).  I told them I wouldn't eat such a pizza and did convince a good number of locals to try cheese pies and they stuck to them. West coast pizza is a different food than what I grew up with in NJ.  Here is a typical from an east coaster and their spouse a west coaster. 

[Timpanogos Slim]

Move out here.  Pepperoni is #1 by far.  Cheese pies are a minority mostly ordered by transplants from the northeast. We only had 9 toppings - sausage, pepperoni, green peppers, mushrooms, onions, black olives, crushed garlic, anchovies, fresh basil, and people would order double and triple toppings. We must have said "no" a hundred times a night to people when they ordered and asked for toppings we didn't have - all the exotic stuff used today along with ranch, which was created here in Reno I am told.   It screwed my shoulders up launching/taking out pies they were so heavy.  I orders some sanded thin peels to help.  A loaded 16" from us, was over 40 dollars and so many were 1/2 and 1/2 which I begrudgingly did (people often asked for each slice to have different toppings).  I told them I wouldn't eat such a pizza and did convince a good number of locals to try cheese pies and they stuck to them. West coast pizza is a different food than what I grew up with in NJ.  Here is a typical from an east coaster and their spouse a west coaster.

Yeah, it seems that as you go further west in the US, the pizza toppings get more varied.

To some extent i expect that as the depth of flavor in the cheese, sauce, and crust diminishes, the interest in more and more flavorful toppings goes up. But even as the flavor of my crust, sauce, and cheese advances, i still hanker for pizzas that are an assault of rich flavors.

Perhaps notable that the Little Caesar's management says that the large pepperoni is their benchmark price point, rather than the cheese.

[wotavidone]

A part of this behavior can be explained by the fact that usually, in France - at least in countryside/small cities, families don't go out that often (maybe once a month?), so when they do, they don't want to take "risk" as you guys said above.
Then, once you've been to a certain type of restaurant (Asian, Mexican, Italian...) and enjoyed one of their foods, you'll want to find it again next time you visit the same type of restaurant ("hey, last time I had some spicy XX, do you make it here too?").

Yael, it can be the same here in Oz. Again, especially in the countryside/smaller towns.
Pizza/Italian is partly valued for the amount of tucker you get for the money.
The expression sometimes used here is "cheap and cheerful."
Not always, and not by everyone, but you get my drift.
Imagine you are a welfare recipient (of which my small town has quite a high proportion), or a single income family with a couple of kids.
If you need to spend 20% of your weekly food budget to get one cheer you up, life isn't completely %$#, family meal, you are risk averse.
You want to know you are getting lots of food that you know you and the kids are going to like. If it turns out to be crap, even if crap just means not what you expected, its quite a blow.

[scott r]

Move out here.  Pepperoni is #1 by far.  Cheese pies are a minority mostly ordered by transplants from the northeast. We only had 9 toppings - sausage, pepperoni, green peppers, mushrooms, onions, black olives, crushed garlic, anchovies, fresh basil, and people would order double and triple toppings. We must have said "no" a hundred times a night to people when they ordered and asked for toppings we didn't have - all the exotic stuff used today along with ranch, which was created here in Reno I am told.   It screwed my shoulders up launching/taking out pies they were so heavy.  I orders some sanded thin peels to help.  A loaded 16" from us, was over 40 dollars and so many were 1/2 and 1/2 which I begrudgingly did (people often asked for each slice to have different toppings).  I told them I wouldn't eat such a pizza and did convince a good number of locals to try cheese pies and they stuck to them. West coast pizza is a different food than what I grew up with in NJ.  Here is a typical from an east coaster and their spouse a west coaster.

Woah, this just blew my mind!  I tried 1/2 and 1/2 first year and it slowed us down so much we had to make rules no 1/2.  I have a 12 inch pizza only, though, so that helps.  I got complaints for a few months and then never since.   Its funny how you can train your customers to some extent. 

[wotavidone]

It screwed my shoulders up launching/taking out pies they were so heavy.

I bet that was bloody annoying. A pizza night in my backyard is 6, or maybe 8 at a stretch, 12 inch pizzas.
Even with that tiny little workload, it annoys the hell out of me when people want every bloody topping known to Man laid on with a shovel.

[waltertore]

Woah, this just blew my mind!  I tried 1/2 and 1/2 first year and it slowed us down so much we had to make rules no 1/2.  I have a 12 inch pizza only, though, so that helps.  I got complaints for a few months and then never since.   Its funny how you can train your customers to some extent.

It is a different world out west.  Those mega topping pies took forever to do.  When people asked what I thought of them, I said I would never eat it because I ate cheese pies all my life and still do the same.  A cheese pie done right is impossible to beat from my upbringing. Pizza was still peasant food when I grew up.   We sold only a 16" and that was like playing baseball with a hockey puck  and golf club out here it is so unique. Most places make more sizes than I could count.  The 1/2 and 1/2 pie is as normal as a cheese pie back in my day back home. The east is steeped in pizza culture that didn't change forever.  But I hear all that is changing as my family in NJ says crazy toppings are everywhere now.  Lack of balance is the norm in the USA - more is better is the mantra here. I don't know how Judy took all those crazy orders and got them right.  The young kids I had topping the pies were better than me as my brain never did wrap around all this stuff.  That is why we had to hire a topper as I couldn't keep up with all that crap. 

[caymus]

No.  I dont think its fair to single out a handful of restaurants for things thousands of them do.

Don't worry.  Yelp already does it. 

[TXCraig1]

Its funny how you can train your customers to some extent.

We trained customers to such an extent that we could take the menus off the drivethroughs and it doubled throughput.