A D V E R T I S E M E N T


Author Topic: BOSCH Universal Plus w/shredder/slicer accessory  (Read 5680 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline NinoDel

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 75
  • Location: macomb mi
  • I Love Pizza!
Re: BOSCH Universal Plus w/shredder/slicer accessory
« Reply #100 on: January 18, 2018, 08:32:32 PM »
I was going to use it Sat, so roughly almost 72 hrs, but prob 68 to be more on point.

After it came out of mixer i let it rest for about 20 min, so im sure  it cooled a bit.  Then i balled and put in fridge.

Should i reball it again?  Its been in cold ferment for 24 hours now.

Offline the1mu

  • Lifetime Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1185
Re: BOSCH Universal Plus w/shredder/slicer accessory
« Reply #101 on: January 18, 2018, 09:14:29 PM »
If it looks like it is fermenting a lot faster than you are used to, then it may be wise to do a reball know so it still has time to relax.

Offline NinoDel

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 75
  • Location: macomb mi
  • I Love Pizza!
Re: BOSCH Universal Plus w/shredder/slicer accessory
« Reply #102 on: January 19, 2018, 09:10:46 AM »
Actually looks to be fermenting at a normal pace.

I will be doing another batch tonight if my dough extender and Caputo Americana 00 arrives in time!

Offline NinoDel

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 75
  • Location: macomb mi
  • I Love Pizza!
Re: BOSCH Universal Plus w/shredder/slicer accessory
« Reply #103 on: January 26, 2018, 12:07:09 PM »
I have since used my twice since the initial time. 

Second time I did my normal batch which was at 60% hydration and total batch weight was ~1750g, with the dough hook extender. 
The dough came out nice.

Third time I did a bigger batch at 61% hydration.  Total weight was ~4000g.  I added the water first then flour etc and mixed for a good 10 min, stopping at different intervals to check the temp which never went above 79.

When dough was mixing and when I put it on the counter it was behaving like a high hydrated dough, very sticky and harder to work with.  I did knead it by hand on the counter for a good 5 minutes but the dough still seemed very wet.  I was able to ball it up nicely with some bench flour but kind of odd how wet it seemed for 61%...

Offline vtsteve

  • Supporting Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1239
  • Location: Vermont, USA
Re: BOSCH Universal Plus w/shredder/slicer accessory
« Reply #104 on: January 26, 2018, 12:16:00 PM »
I have since used my twice since the initial time. 

Second time I did my normal batch which was at 60% hydration and total batch weight was ~1750g, with the dough hook extender. 
The dough came out nice.

Third time I did a bigger batch at 61% hydration.  Total weight was ~4000g.  I added the water first then flour etc and mixed for a good 10 min, stopping at different intervals to check the temp which never went above 79.

When dough was mixing and when I put it on the counter it was behaving like a high hydrated dough, very sticky and harder to work with.  I did knead it by hand on the counter for a good 5 minutes but the dough still seemed very wet.  I was able to ball it up nicely with some bench flour but kind of odd how wet it seemed for 61%...

I don't know how aggressive the mixing action is on larger batches, but you may have overmixed it. Were you monitoring the appearance (and planning to stop when it looked right), or just time & temperature?
In grams we trust.
My wood-fired NY thread: Pizza Thursday

A D V E R T I S E M E N T


Offline NinoDel

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 75
  • Location: macomb mi
  • I Love Pizza!
Re: BOSCH Universal Plus w/shredder/slicer accessory
« Reply #105 on: January 26, 2018, 04:58:28 PM »
I had it mix for 6 minutes initially and watched it during that time.  After 7 min the temperature was only 75.  I then let it mix for 4 more minutes but checked the temperature every minute to make sure it didnt go above 80.  The dough still looked the same after the 1st 6 minutes and after the total of 10 minutes mixing.

Offline parallei

  • Supporting Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1881
  • Location: Denver, CO
Re: BOSCH Universal Plus w/shredder/slicer accessory
« Reply #106 on: January 26, 2018, 08:41:16 PM »
I had it mix for 6 minutes initially and watched it during that time.  After 7 min the temperature was only 75.  I then let it mix for 4 more minutes but checked the temperature every minute to make sure it didnt go above 80.  The dough still looked the same after the 1st 6 minutes and after the total of 10 minutes mixing.

Well this is strange.  I've loved my Bosch.

What flour are you using?

Have you much experience making pizza dough?  Not a slam!  Just a question!

I'd really lay off focusing on the time/temperature thing and just focus on what the dough looks/feels like.  If I were doing 1,500g total pizza dough weight in my BUP (with the hook extender) I'd go the following:

 - Use cold water.  That would mean water that has been in the fridge for a few hours - 36F more or less
 - Use an HR appropriate for the flour I'm using.
 - Water/salt into mixer and bump it around a few times to dissolve salt.
 - Dump in flour, sprinkle IDY on top.
 - Mix at speed 1 for a min or so 'till water is mixed in.
 - Rest 10 min
 - Add oil at this point if you are using it.  I've found it helps to squish the dough down with your hand and use your fingers to dimple the dough.  The dimples are were the oil goes to ensure it is evenly distributed.  Mush together with your hands.
 - For a 61% HR, 5 or six min's on speed 2 works for me. 
 - Let rest for 10 min, dump onto bench and hand need for 2 min or so to smooth out.  If your using a decent flour, you shouldn't need bench flour to ball it up.

If you are using a decent flour and an appropriate HR, at 61% HR stickiness should not be a problem.  Try the rest periods I mentioned.  That should help.

All that said, I made 750g of pizza dough this afternoon and just did it by hand!  Rests help. 
 

Offline NinoDel

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 75
  • Location: macomb mi
  • I Love Pizza!
Re: BOSCH Universal Plus w/shredder/slicer accessory
« Reply #107 on: January 27, 2018, 11:54:31 AM »
Well this is strange.  I've loved my Bosch.

What flour are you using?

Have you much experience making pizza dough?  Not a slam!  Just a question!

I'd really lay off focusing on the time/temperature thing and just focus on what the dough looks/feels like.  If I were doing 1,500g total pizza dough weight in my BUP (with the hook extender) I'd go the following:

 - Use cold water.  That would mean water that has been in the fridge for a few hours - 36F more or less
 - Use an HR appropriate for the flour I'm using.
 - Water/salt into mixer and bump it around a few times to dissolve salt.
 - Dump in flour, sprinkle IDY on top.
 - Mix at speed 1 for a min or so 'till water is mixed in.
 - Rest 10 min
 - Add oil at this point if you are using it.  I've found it helps to squish the dough down with your hand and use your fingers to dimple the dough.  The dimples are were the oil goes to ensure it is evenly distributed.  Mush together with your hands.
 - For a 61% HR, 5 or six min's on speed 2 works for me. 
 - Let rest for 10 min, dump onto bench and hand need for 2 min or so to smooth out.  If your using a decent flour, you shouldn't need bench flour to ball it up.

If you are using a decent flour and an appropriate HR, at 61% HR stickiness should not be a problem.  Try the rest periods I mentioned.  That should help.

All that said, I made 750g of pizza dough this afternoon and just did it by hand!  Rests help. 
 
No prob! Here is my answers/process for this dough...
I was using Caputo 00 Americana.  I have been making homemade pizzas for 10 plus years, as far as making them correctly with paying attention to different flours, yeasts, fermentation times etc, probably around 3 years or whenever I bought The Pizza Bible.
I only pay attention to the temp to make sure the dough doesn't get much above 80.  The dough looks good when its done mixing and it is fermenting quite nice, its just odd how it feels very sticky as opposed to lower hydration mixes i've used in the Bosch and KA.

Process:
2140g Caputo Americana
61% Cold filtered water (I added some ice in it to keep it real cold)
2.5% Fine seal salt
2% olive oil
.06% or 12.84g Fresh Yeast
430g dough ball from a previous batch made 3 days before

Water (without ice) went in Bosch bowl
Added yeast and mixed it all together until the yeast dissolved
Once dissolved, I added the flour and mixed for 1 to 2 minutes
Autolyse for 20 min
Turn mixer on speed 1 for and added the dough ball from previous batch, mixed for 2 min then slowly added salt and oil.
Mixed for addl 4 min and checked temp (~75 degrees)
After the dough looked mixed, just wet and sticky I let it go for 4 more min, checking it every minute.  Final dough temp out of mixer was 79 degrees
I hand kneaded it for 3 to 5 minutes then let it rest with a kitchen towel over it for 30 minutes
I then weighed each ball. It was very sticky and hard to handle, so that is where the bench flour came in. 
Rolled each ball and put it in containers and into the fridge (coming up on 72 hours later tonight)

I am impressed with my Bosch and love how it mixes more dough faster. I just want to make sure I am using it correctly.

Offline the1mu

  • Lifetime Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1185
Re: BOSCH Universal Plus w/shredder/slicer accessory
« Reply #108 on: January 27, 2018, 08:30:05 PM »
How over fermented was your old dough ball?

A highly over fermented dough will began to release water out of the cell walls and back into the mix, making for a very wet and sticky result.

Online mitchjg

  • Supporting Member
  • *
  • Posts: 4841
  • Location: Oakland, CA
Re: BOSCH Universal Plus w/shredder/slicer accessory
« Reply #109 on: January 27, 2018, 08:39:49 PM »
I wonder if these issues may have to do with the flour.  Maybe a bad batch?  Perhaps try to mix a dough with the same recipe/process using another flour and see if the same thing happens.
Mitch

“We hate math,” says 4 in 10 – a majority of Americans

A D V E R T I S E M E N T


Offline parallei

  • Supporting Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1881
  • Location: Denver, CO
Re: BOSCH Universal Plus w/shredder/slicer accessory
« Reply #110 on: January 27, 2018, 08:54:50 PM »
I was using Caputo 00 Americana. 

It certainly sounds like you know what you're doing!  I hope you didn't feel I thought otherwise.

Try some good old KABF or GM Better for Bread or whatever they are calling it these days.

I had a really bad experience with the Caputo Americana. I paid for a 10# repack, plus shipping (ouch), and ended up throwing it all out.  I had the same issue you mention - the stuff would never come together.  Others may disagree, but I feel Caputo flours can be pretty spotty, at least on the retail level.  I've had more than one 2kg pack of the Chief's Flour 00 (the red bag or what used to be the red bag) that I've chucked too. 

I wonder if these issues may have to do with the flour.  Maybe a bad batch?  Perhaps try to mix a dough with the same recipe/process using another flour and see if the same thing happens.

Mitch posted while I was typing.  Great minds think alike.......  :-D
« Last Edit: January 27, 2018, 09:23:34 PM by parallei »

Offline Essen1

  • Supporting Member
  • *
  • Posts: 5281
  • Location: SF Bay Area
Re: BOSCH Universal Plus w/shredder/slicer accessory
« Reply #111 on: January 27, 2018, 09:01:15 PM »
No prob! Here is my answers/process for this dough...
I was using Caputo 00 Americana.  I have been making homemade pizzas for 10 plus years, as far as making them correctly with paying attention to different flours, yeasts, fermentation times etc, probably around 3 years or whenever I bought The Pizza Bible.
I only pay attention to the temp to make sure the dough doesn't get much above 80.  The dough looks good when its done mixing and it is fermenting quite nice, its just odd how it feels very sticky as opposed to lower hydration mixes i've used in the Bosch and KA.

Process:
2140g Caputo Americana
61% Cold filtered water (I added some ice in it to keep it real cold)
2.5% Fine seal salt
2% olive oil
.06% or 12.84g Fresh Yeast
430g dough ball from a previous batch made 3 days before

Water (without ice) went in Bosch bowl
Added yeast and mixed it all together until the yeast dissolved
Once dissolved, I added the flour and mixed for 1 to 2 minutes
Autolyse for 20 min
Turn mixer on speed 1 for and added the dough ball from previous batch, mixed for 2 min then slowly added salt and oil.
Mixed for addl 4 min and checked temp (~75 degrees)
After the dough looked mixed, just wet and sticky I let it go for 4 more min, checking it every minute.  Final dough temp out of mixer was 79 degrees
I hand kneaded it for 3 to 5 minutes then let it rest with a kitchen towel over it for 30 minutes
I then weighed each ball. It was very sticky and hard to handle, so that is where the bench flour came in. 
Rolled each ball and put it in containers and into the fridge (coming up on 72 hours later tonight)

I am impressed with my Bosch and love how it mixes more dough faster. I just want to make sure I am using it correctly.

Nino,

I strongly believe it's the flour.

I recently finished a 50lb bag of CapAm and the older the flour got, the more erratic it performed. It is a tremendous flours, don't get me wrong, but I think it's designed for a fast turn-over rate and not necessarily for the home baker. When it was super fresh, it delivered awesome pies and a crust that was simply fantastic.

My go-to flour is Tony Gemignani's 00 High Gluten and that one works just like a charm. Like others here have already suggested, switch to a different flour and see how that performs with the Bosch.
Mike

“All styles of pizza are valid. I make the best I’m capable of; you should make the best you’re capable of. I don’t want to make somebody else’s pizza.” ~ Chris Bianco

Offline NinoDel

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 75
  • Location: macomb mi
  • I Love Pizza!
Re: BOSCH Universal Plus w/shredder/slicer accessory
« Reply #112 on: January 28, 2018, 11:36:31 AM »
the1mu - The old dough ball was about 72 hours old when I incorporated it into the mix.

mitchjg - Quite possible but it performed very well from fermentation to finished product.  I have used 2 different flours for so far.
              1st was a batch ~3500g with High Gluten Bouncer Flour at 64% hydration that I had similar issues with but didnt need bench flour to ball, 2nd was a batch ~1700g with Caputo 00 Americana, which had 60% hydration, and didn't have the issues of it being wet and sticky.

parallei - No worries!  All is good!  I bought this flour as a 20lb repack from Amazon...haven't found anywhere local where I can order it from.

Essen1 - I got the repack of this flour about a week ago, says its good until 12-2018, but who really knows!

I'll continue to mess with it and use other flours as well.  Caputo is 4 times more expensive than the stuff I really like.





Offline NinoDel

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 75
  • Location: macomb mi
  • I Love Pizza!
Re: BOSCH Universal Plus w/shredder/slicer accessory
« Reply #113 on: January 28, 2018, 11:53:16 AM »
Here are some of the finished pizzas from various batches.
« Last Edit: January 28, 2018, 12:12:15 PM by Pete-zza »

Offline NinoDel

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 75
  • Location: macomb mi
  • I Love Pizza!
Re: BOSCH Universal Plus w/shredder/slicer accessory
« Reply #114 on: January 28, 2018, 11:55:19 AM »
More...
« Last Edit: January 28, 2018, 12:14:14 PM by Pete-zza »

A D V E R T I S E M E N T


Offline NinoDel

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 75
  • Location: macomb mi
  • I Love Pizza!
Re: BOSCH Universal Plus w/shredder/slicer accessory
« Reply #115 on: January 28, 2018, 11:56:30 AM »
More...

Offline Essen1

  • Supporting Member
  • *
  • Posts: 5281
  • Location: SF Bay Area
Re: BOSCH Universal Plus w/shredder/slicer accessory
« Reply #116 on: January 28, 2018, 01:40:00 PM »
Looking good.

If you want to experiment with some great flours, Central Milling has some of the best in the Nation. They do sell by the 5lb bags.

https://centralmilling.com/store/

Scroll all the way down and you'll get Tony Gemignani's flour as well.
Mike

“All styles of pizza are valid. I make the best I’m capable of; you should make the best you’re capable of. I don’t want to make somebody else’s pizza.” ~ Chris Bianco

Offline parallei

  • Supporting Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1881
  • Location: Denver, CO
Re: BOSCH Universal Plus w/shredder/slicer accessory
« Reply #117 on: January 28, 2018, 08:40:04 PM »

Offline NinoDel

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 75
  • Location: macomb mi
  • I Love Pizza!
Re: BOSCH Universal Plus w/shredder/slicer accessory
« Reply #118 on: January 28, 2018, 09:45:57 PM »
Thank you very much

Offline janes_mw

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 105
  • Age: 61
  • Location: Largo, FL
  • I Love Pizza!
Re: BOSCH Universal Plus w/shredder/slicer accessory
« Reply #119 on: February 12, 2018, 01:22:31 PM »
Well, got my Universal Bosch after finding a really good deal on a slightly used machine (it's obvious it was used very little).  I did a 1000g All Trumps flour recipe which yielded 1750g dough ball (although I add water/oil to sight/touch, reverse engineering on the dough calculator works out to about 60%).

1st - This mixer is far superior to the Kitchen Aid for my use and type of dough I like. I mixed for 12 minutes on high and the thing didn't even care (no heating up, no grinding, nothing but mixing)  8)

I used the dual whip to mix the dry ingredients for about 1 minute.
Added water to about 30% hydration, then oil.
Let mix for 30 seconds then slowly add water to the texture/consistency I like (stopped and did my touch test  :-D)
Turned up to 4 and mixed for 12 minutes.
Let rest for 15 minutes, dumped, folded a couple times, split into 420ish dough balls.
Room temp for 6 hours, cold temp for 18 hours, back up to room temp 1 hour before I used.

Stretch was fine, bake was great, flavor excellent!  :chef:

Love the mixer!!



Always looking for the best! Haven't found it yet, but damn fun looking!!!!

A D V E R T I S E M E N T