Pizza Making Forum

Pizza Making => General Pizza Making => Topic started by: maxiemag on March 26, 2009, 10:40:35 AM

Title: Jets pizza
Post by: maxiemag on March 26, 2009, 10:40:35 AM
I am trying to find a recipe similar to the crust that Jets uses for their pan pizza.
TIA
Title: Re: Jets pizza
Post by: Mad_Ernie on March 26, 2009, 11:34:04 AM
Where is Jets pizza?  Do you have a website or any information on what their pizza looks and tastes like? ???
Title: Re: Jets pizza
Post by: Pete-zza on March 26, 2009, 11:36:17 AM
Where is Jets pizza?  Do you have a website or any information on what their pizza looks and tastes like? ???

ME,

http://jetspizza.com/.

Peter
Title: Re: Jets pizza
Post by: Mad_Ernie on March 27, 2009, 01:24:23 PM
Thanks Peter.

Judging by the looks of the pizzas I could see on the menu page, it looks like Jets has a rectangular pan pizza similar to a Pizza Hut pan/thick pizza crust.  The crust looks a bit fried to me, so I would say some form of oil (fat) in the pan is needed.  I would say this puts it closer to a PH pan pizza clone than a more traditional Sicilian style (except for the shape).

My suggestion is go through the PH pan pizza clone threads and start there using a rectangular pan.  You might need a baker's supply store to get a pan with the right amount of edge.

Start here and follow this and similar threads http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,213.0.html (http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,213.0.html)

After that, some tweaking will probably be needed to get it to the flavor that is more characteristic of Jets.

Title: Re: Jets pizza
Post by: Pete-zza on March 27, 2009, 01:28:33 PM
ME,

Jet's also makes round pizzas. See, for example, http://jetspizza.com/menu/item/24.

Peter

Title: Re: Jets pizza
Post by: Mad_Ernie on March 27, 2009, 02:19:42 PM
ME,

Jet's also makes round pizzas. See, for example, http://jetspizza.com/menu/item/24.

Peter

I noticed that, but since maxiemag said he wanted a recipe for Jet's pan pizza, I thought he meant the rectangular-shaped thick crust pan pizza.  The other pizzas looked more like traditional non-pan types (with nice shiney crusts  ;))
Title: Re: Jets pizza
Post by: Pete-zza on March 27, 2009, 02:52:08 PM
ME,

Ah, you are so right. I will fall on my sword.

The key to these kinds of analyses is to get the form factor right, that is, get the pizza dimensions and relative amounts of dough, sauce, cheese and toppings. Getting brands of ingredients will also help, if only to have something to examine from related nutrition data. I noticed that the Jet's website does not give the sizes of their pizzas. Someone will have to measure typical pizzas, maybe a round one and a rectangular/square one (they say "square" but some look like they are rectangular).

I was looking at the data on the medium pepperoni pizza, which appears to be made from a hand shaped skin. That pizza weighs around 30 ounces baked, so an unbaked pizza will weigh a bit more. If you look at the allergen information, you will see that Jet's uses corn oil in the square pizza dough, soybean oil in the thin crust flour (this suggests a pre-made flour blend), Red Star active dry yeast, but no "milk or dairy within the crust" and no trans fats. 

If possible, maxiemag should also try to determine how the dough and pizzas are made, including the type of oven used (e.g., deck oven or conveyor oven). My suspicion is that the dough is made on premises.

Peter
Title: Re: Jets pizza
Post by: PizzaHog on March 29, 2009, 03:17:01 PM
I believe Jet's originated in Michigan and that their corp headquarters is still here.  I would consider their square pizza to be Detroit Stylish version of Sicilian which does feature the fried crust as Peter correctly observed.  So in addition to the PH pan maybe some ideas from the Sicilian threads might apply.
Title: Re: Jets pizza
Post by: Pete-zza on March 29, 2009, 03:22:19 PM
From some additional online research, I discovered that Jet's uses conveyor ovens in at least some locations. I saw a photo showing a Middleby Marshall WOW conveyor (http://media.naplesnews.com/media/img/photos/2008/07/24/080724BZ-EM-NEWPIZZA_00165_t607.jpg). I also read that Jet's was one of the first ones to bake the rectangular/square pizzas in a conveyor oven.

The pizza sauce apparently comes in cans bearing the name "Jet Fuel" (http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/3342567891/). The dough appears to be made on site at each location.

Peter

EDIT (1/25/16): For an updated link to the Middleby Marshall oven, see http://www.naplesnews.com/business/special-delivery-michigan-man-opening-southwest-florida-pizza-parlors-ep-401407525-330908851.html (http://www.naplesnews.com/business/special-delivery-michigan-man-opening-southwest-florida-pizza-parlors-ep-401407525-330908851.html)
Title: Re: Jets pizza
Post by: Jmikla on May 21, 2009, 12:51:21 PM
From some additional online research, I discovered that Jet's uses conveyor ovens in at least some locations. I saw a photo showing what appears to be a Middleby Marshall WOW conveyor. I also read that Jet's was one of the first ones to bake the rectangular/square pizzas in a conveyor oven.

The pizza sauce apparently comes in cans bearing the name "Jet Fuel". The dough appears to be made on site at each location.

Peter

Jet's Pizza Sauce is also made from scratch in-house. The only portion Jet's Supplies' is the spice mix. The ovens "are" conveyor ovens are heated up to 545 degrees, and conveyor runs from left to right 8 mins on top oven and 9 mins on bottom oven.
Title: How to make the Jets Pizza chain's exact square pan pizza
Post by: boboo on October 27, 2010, 05:09:20 PM
I want to know how to make the Jets Pizza chain's exact square pan pizza with the hard fried crisp on the entire bottom and chewy top layer dough.  You can hear the crunch when you bite it. They claim no one can do it but them - a challenge.
Title: Re: How to make the Jets Pizza chain's exact square pan pizza
Post by: Pete-zza on October 27, 2010, 06:09:56 PM
boboo,

You are not the first one to ask for the Jet's pizza recipe, as noted above. See, also, the recent video at http://news.yahoo.com/video/detroit-wxyz-20910802/jet-s-pizza-21918483*. You will need a lot of information to reverse engineer a Jet's square pan pizza.

Peter

* No longer available at Yahoo.
Title: Re: How to make the Jets Pizza chain's exact square pan pizza
Post by: boboo on October 28, 2010, 11:36:19 AM
I have taken note of the ultra top secret nature surrounding this pizza.  That just means to me that its just a matter of one thing and of knowing it. Jets personnel have said its in their custom made pan thickness, but the pans look normal to me.   I'm willing. Who should I turn to?
Title: Re: How to make the Jets Pizza chain's exact square pan pizza
Post by: Pete-zza on October 31, 2010, 03:09:58 PM
I have taken note of the ultra top secret nature surrounding this pizza.  That just means to me that its just a matter of one thing and of knowing it. Jets personnel have said its in their custom made pan thickness, but the pans look normal to me.   I'm willing. Who should I turn to?

boboo,

I have been doing some research on the Jet's square pizzas. What is it specifically that you are looking for and how time and effort are you prepared to put into the exercise?

Peter
Title: Re: Jets pizza
Post by: AustinSpartan on November 02, 2010, 08:46:22 AM
From some additional online research, I discovered that Jet's uses conveyor ovens in at least some locations. I saw a photo showing a Middleby Marshall WOW conveyor (http://media.naplesnews.com/media/img/photos/2008/07/24/080724BZ-EM-NEWPIZZA_00165_t607.jpg). I also read that Jet's was one of the first ones to bake the rectangular/square pizzas in a conveyor oven.

The pizza sauce apparently comes in cans bearing the name "Jet Fuel" (http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/3342567891/). The dough appears to be made on site at each location.

Peter

Being from Detroit and having eaten a LOT of Jets' pizza in the past, I can comment on a few of the above points.

Jets uses some sort of oil in the bottom of their pans to achieve the crispy / fried bottom crust.

The sauce is indeed delivered in can form to the stores.

The dough looks to be made onsite, as I do seem to remember very large bags of pre-mixed flours around the store.

Every Jets pizza that I've stepped inside uses a conveyor type oven.

If there are any other specific questions, I may be able to leverage some family ties, as I do have a 4th cousin that manages a Jets store and has been in the business for 10+ years now.
Title: Re: Jets pizza
Post by: Pete-zza on November 02, 2010, 06:30:31 PM
AustinSpartan,

If you look at the Allergen Info section at the Jet's Pizza website, at http://jetspizza.com/nutrition, you will see a reference to the use of corn oil in the square pizza dough. You will also note that soybean oil, which is a common oil used by pizza chains in their doughs, is used only in the thin crust flour, which is presumably used to make their thin round pizzas. If the allergen information is current and correct, I believe the oil that is used in the square pizza pans is corn oil. Otherwise, they would have to report the soybean oil as a possible allergen for those who are allergic to soy products.

What would be interesting to me and, I am sure, to boboo also, is what the pans are made of and who supplies the pans to Jet's. Actually, there are three pan sizes, only one of which is square (or appears to be so); the others are rectangular. If you look at the pans shown in the video at http://news.yahoo.com/video/detroit-wxyz-20910802/jet-s-pizza-21918483*, they appear to be dark, seasoned steel pans or possibly blue steel pans with reinforced rims. They also look to be made with folded, welded corners, as is common with some of the older bread pans, rather than being stamped out of a metal sheet. At least that is what the pans look like coming out of the oven toward the end of the abovereferenced video.

The oven is indeed a conveyor oven. Unless they have changed ovens, Jet's is using Middleby Marshall conveyor ovens, as previously noted.

I have never had a Jet's pizza. Are they anything like a Buddy's pizza?

Peter

* Video no longer available at Yahoo

Title: Re: Jets pizza
Post by: shuboyje on November 02, 2010, 09:51:52 PM
Yes, Jet's is very much like Buddy's.  As a Detroiter I'll say Jet's is probably my favorite between Jet's, Shield's, and Buddy's.  It's topped more like an american style pie, but the base is the same.  The pans are also very similar to the pans talked about in the Buddy's thread.
Title: Re: Jets pizza
Post by: boboo on November 04, 2010, 03:50:49 PM
Boboo in reply to everyone regarding replicating Jet's square or rectangle pan pizzas. I'm new member and am figuring out how to post.  Yes can you get in touch with Jets family to get any knowledge they will reveal. Thank you.  In answer to Pete, I am prepared to do anything and contact anyone I can to get the harder crunch on this pizza. The bottom line is Jets essential element is a generally desired one - A "harder" fried crunch on the entire bottom -hard crunch on bottom, soft on top.
What kind of pans does "Buddy" use?

Meanwhile, I'll tell what I have to date:  Everyone is right about it so far:  Jets uses the Middleby conveyor oven and cooks at 500 deg. for 8 min. There is no parbaking that I know of.   their allergy ingredients just list flour with barley and corn oil - no milk.

Their sauce is very neutral and they use a lot. ( does this help with top uncooked chewy layer?) The cheese is good but in the normal range. Normal sweet tasting dough. They put the cheese to the edge so it will produce a burnt top edge. They have a thick top layer of dough uncooked and chewy with a lesser middle cooked layer.

Its the "harder" fried crunch on the entire bottom that is the key. 

Their local personnel have claimed the hard crunch is all in their pan thickness, but admit the franchiser sends them the flour rather than a flour supplier. (The franchiser claims its "mom's" recipe and that they have the flour special made for them as well as their pans)  They showed me a pan and it seemed normal thickness for a good pan. They appear to be steel. At least, they are not cast iron. I think they are stamped. I don't recall seeing welds. They didn't look like nonstick. They were black on sides but the bottom appeared to be clean steel.
Jets claims they mix up dough on site and place it in multiple pans on top of the oil ( claimed just enough to cover bottom) in advance and keep in fridge. ( I don't know if they let dough rise in the pans or let it rise first, then put in pans) (I have only had success putting mine in pans to rise, then press down in middle right before cooking)

I have duplicated (beginner's luck) everything pretty well except for this one thing - the harder fried crunch; and, on the entire bottom. ( Pizza Hut has it but only on the edges) You can hear the crunch when you bite it. Its resistant.

My fried effect looks just right, even in the middle. But its a softer crunch which breaks into fine particles when bitten instead of sticking together with the hard crunch. Mine is also only on the edges - no crunch in the middle even though the middle is fried also.

I am trying to learn about flour etc. So far I have used bread flour and all purpose flour. Bread seems better. I have not tried high gluten or semolina (will try next) I tried cornmeal and it tasted like gritty cornbread.

A fried crunch is there, but not hard enough or on entire bottom. It seems it has to be just one simple thing to make it harder and thruout: It does not seem to be a matter of adjustments. The crunch is too evident.  It seems its one simple missing thing:  Commercial type of oil, the pans, the type of dough or ingredient in the dough???

PS: On the other hand, I did notice that their extra large had less hard crunch in the middle of it than the  large indicating they have a range limit as well. Would this indicate a matter of technique rather than ingredients?

Thanks a bunch
Bob

 

Title: Re: Jets pizza
Post by: Pete-zza on November 04, 2010, 07:52:37 PM
Bob,

Thanks for offering to work on this matter. I look forward to working with you. Hopefully, we will both learn something in the process.

Sometimes it is tempting to conclude that a particular characteristic, such as the crunchiness of a crust, is due to one thing. Usually, it is a combination and culmination of several things. In this case, it might be a combination of the dough formulation, the pans (and how they are used) and the oven. Some of these aspects can be emulated in a home setting with a standard home oven but the reality is that a standard home oven, even one with a convection feature, is not the same as a Middleby Marshall conveyor oven. That usually means that you have to adapt either or both of the dough formulation--to the extent you are able to divine it--and the oven to be able to replicate the conveyor pizza, even if it is not an exact replication.

I will try to answer some of your questions below but, before doing so, perhaps you can indulge me by trying to answer the questions posed below. I have done a fair amount of research on the Jet's square/rectangular pizzas but there are still some gaps in my knowledge and understanding. You may be able to help close those gaps. So, here goes:

1. Do you know the ingredients used by Jet's Pizza to make the dough for their square/rectangular pizzas. If not, can you post the dough recipe you have been using?

2. Is there a particular size of Jet's square/rectangular pizza that you are trying to reverse engineer and clone and, if so, what is that size?

3. Do you have any information on the suppliers of the flour used to make the square/rectangular pizzas, the sauce (including seasonings) and the mozzarella cheese?

4. Does the YouTube video at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j0PJmOB8098 accurately depict the bottom crust characteristics you have singled out for discussion? 

5. Have you ever seen commercial dough rolling equipment and proofing equipment in the Jet's Pizza shops you frequent and, if so, do you recall how they were being used, either for square/rectangular pizzas, round pizzas, or buns or related dough products?

6. Have you been able to learn who supplies the pans that Jet's Pizza uses? Do you know the different pan sizes?

7. I have read that on occasion a Jet's Pizza shop will sell dough balls. Have you explored that possibility?

8. Do you know any dough ball weights for the different Jet's square/rectangular pizzas?

9. Do you have a good digital scale?

Now, to your questions.

It is not entirely clear who sources the pans for Buddy's but there has been an enormous amount of work devoted by our members to ingredients and equipment used at Buddy's. It also appears that Buddy's has not been standing still and has made many changes to its operations since our members first started to try to reverse engineer and clone the Buddy's pizzas. At one time, there was speculation that a company in Livonia, MI, called P.A. Products, was a supplier of the Buddy's pans but the pan sizes that Buddy's uses do not match up with the deep-dish pans (blue steel) listed on the P.A products website (http://www.paprod.com/). If you are interested, you can read of the members' efforts to reverse engineer and clone the Buddy's pizzas at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,3783.0.html. In that thread, you will see photos of some of the pans used by Buddy's.

If Jet's is using a lot of sauce, it would not be unnatural to expect either a gumline or a part of the crust that is not completely cooked. Moreover, these characteristics might appear more prominently with the larger rectangular Jet's pizzas because the edges of the pizza are more likely to be more fully baked than the center of the pizza. This problem is sometimes addressed by pan producers by perforating the center parts of the pans to allow more heat to be directed to the centers of pizzas. This is perhaps not a particularly practical solution for someone like Jet's Pizza because the pans might require a fair amount of oil in order to get the degree of bottom crust bake that characterizes the Jet's pizzas. I can tell you from experience that it is not a good idea to use oiled perforated pans in a home oven. The oil can easily fall through the perforations and hit the hot bottom coil and create a lot of smoke and possibly set off your smoke alarm is the oven door is opened.

Peter
Title: Re: Jets pizza
Post by: boboo on November 07, 2010, 12:16:57 AM
Thanks for helping. I think and hope many folks will benefit.
Sorry for delay. Its either me or my computer but this is the first time I have seen Peter's last message. I'm on my son's now.  His is more updated ???
You make better sense than me (of course) when you say its probably not one thing but many things together to get the crust. Reality rings true when one hears it, if he's listening.

Before I get to questions, I went to a brand new Jets location tonight and their crust was not as crunchy as the other location even though, like mine, it looked the same - the golden fried crisp look. It looked like they cooked it less time ( they told me they cooked it for 8 min. 40 secs.); or, I noticed their ovens were down to 450 deg - if that helps as a guide in any way. ( mine just gets burnt if I cook it longer for the purpose to get the crunch harder.  This should tell us something too)  i.e., Mine goes past the right (looking ) crunch, to burnt without passing into a hard crunch stage.  I don't know if cooking it lower and slower would change the crunch but I don't think so. Fast or slow, it passes thru the crunch stage - Jets is a hard crunch - mine is a soft one. ( It hasn't been difficult to get the cheese and the bottom to coordinate except when cooking it lower  and slower.)  I did notice that one location started out with a harder crunch, then went to a lesser one as the hardest one was a little burnt (too hard). In any event, they can adjust this crunch and therefor the hardness stage; whereas mine is not adjustable. It goes from golden to burnt with no stages and no hard crunch. But they have a range and can count on theirs and play around with it.   

I'll try to find out some answers to your questions. For present, I don't know many of them viz:

I don't know the ingredients in dough except what Jet's allergy list is. They list wheat and barley and no milk products.  They list only corn oil.
Their video claims they get their flour special made for them. Looks like they send it out to their stores under their name though ( keeping it secret?). So, don't know original supplier.  None of the employees I've talked to know whats in it.

Their sauce spices comes the same way from Jets too.  Its not any thicker than normal etc. and it tastes just like tomato sauce you would get at the grocery with garlic, oregano and basil in it (not too heavy on spices.) They are keeping spices a secret too looks like. They call it Jet fuel. It looks brown. I do think the plentiful sauce helps give them the thick top layer of uncooked dough. They definitely have that; and, the cooked layer is very spongy and chewy also - High gluten? Their dough is very white so I guess they use bleached flour? Looks like most high gluten comes unbleached?
Their video claims they get the cheese direct from farm with "contented cows" that sit in barn and listen to opera music all day....OK....
One franchise owner said the cheese is top of the line costing them some extra bucks. Don't know any more yet.

The U-Tube critique video was exactly a correct version of the Jets I'm speaking of. The bottom crust was just what they look like and you can tell its extra hard with large chunks of crust which stick together and resist the bite.  They all do have bubble spots that don't get fried, so its contact with the pan that does it.  Mine looks like this, but the resistant crunch ( and chewiness) is not there)

I have looked for equipment utilized. They have large stainless table in back, but have not seen a dough rolling or proofing equipment. I see Middleby conveyor; large fridge; Hobart mixer and the big table and a couple of things I don't know what they are. I know they mix the dough on site each day from the flour that the main office sends them.  I saw one guy hand tossing their round ones. They use screens on round ones.
Don't know if they use instant or active yeast yet.  One employee told me they form the dough in multiple pans in advance by hand then refrigerate till time to bake.  I have tried letting dough rise then pushing it down, then putting in pans to rise again some - Didn't work for me, so I guess they let it rise in pans - I have to do it this way so far, but it looks just like theirs when done???   

I will definitely ask them next time if they will sell me a dough ball. Would love to have that. I figured they would shoot me or something.

I don't know their dough weights or ingredient weights. I just went by the approx size of their dough balls in their video (a guess)  The video has them pushing the dough down in the pans in the middle a little right before they put the toppings on. And their edges gradually rise up thicker as if it rose in pans - at least some. The middle is not that thick. This is what I am getting when I let mine rise in pan and push it down using the same size ball as them.

Mine is not too sophisticated to put it mildly (rank beginning beginner beginning to begin). I got it from the reported "Pizza Hut" recipe that has the same crunch as Jets, but just on bottom edges)  I use about two and quarter teaspoons active yeast and proof it ( have tried no proof "pizza"yeast from store in packages)  I use about a cup of warm water (guess around 110)  Two tablespoons of corn oil;  1/2 teaspoon of salt
(then shake little more in)  two tablespoons of sugar. (I have not adjusted for anything in the proofing) I have tried all purpose and bread flour. Bread does some better. Tried cornmeal - didn't work.  I do about three cups of flour, but it varies down to maybe two and half cups.  I usually don't have to add any more flour to remove the stickiness. It is usually gets dry to the touch to knead. I hand knead for ten minutes. Roll it out to just over size of pan. Cut it to fit pan. I'm guessing its about 1/8 " thick - little thicker on edges.  Put oil in pan. spread.  Put dough in pan push to  edges and let it rise in pan for several hours in oven (off) with pan of hot water in there. Have not tried refrigerator rise (few tries at it didn't work for me yet)  Punch it down in middle and put on sauce and cheese to edge for burnt top edge. Cook at 500 deg for 8 min. (9 is too long) ( have tried down to 450 for little longer.) (electric home oven.)  Tried middle and lower rack.  ( as said, I'm passing into the fried crunch stage - its just not crunchy though) Have tried varying amounts of corn oil in bottom and sides of pan. Up to 3oz for a 9X12 pan down to just covering the bottom.  Only know to now try high gluten and semolina from King Arthur's??? and get a thicker pan; Or adjust water.  I see Lloyd Ind. has raised holes to keep the oil in and let the moisture out??? Jets has no holes though.

My pan (that I had already) is stamped steel or metal. It is 9 X12 but its thin (I did get it level on bottom)
Jet's sizes are approx 9 by 9 for small; 9 by 12 to 13 for large; (the extra large I don't know, but as mentioned, the extra large begins to lose the hard crunch in the middle; so,l they DO have limits in size vs crunch. (this should tell us something?)

I have a friend who will let me use his digital scale. 

My result is NOT as chewy. Less uncooked layer. The cooked layer is more bread like.  And, as said, my crunch is there in appearance, but in resistance its too soft and flakes into tiny particles too easily (and none in middle), not hard like Jets.

When cooked, Jet's crust rises gradually from about an inch from the edge up to about 3/4" at the edge and is fairly thin in the middle - about 1/4" to 3/8".

What they got is very chewy; very crunchy; burnt cheese top edge.

I will try to get these answers ASAP. I might have to go in and ask one or two questions at a time. They get hush hush real quickly.


Title: Re: Jets pizza
Post by: Pete-zza on November 07, 2010, 09:26:21 PM
boboo,

I have made a few phone calls and am awaiting responses. I will let you know what I learn.

Peter
Title: Re: Jets pizza
Post by: pizza king millinium on November 19, 2010, 12:24:05 AM
I have worked at Jet's for 20 years, I know everything there is to know about the business.
Title: Re: Jets pizza
Post by: boboo on November 23, 2010, 04:01:05 PM
Hey to Pizza King Millenium.  Just now saw your message.  Thanks for response.

My family loves the square deep dish pizza of Jets.
I can't afford as many as we'd like so I would like to make them myself to fill in the gap. We will still get the Jets often and recommend them etc. as much as possible We just need more of them in between.

I'm close and my crust looks just like Jets fried bottom crust, but its not as hard and crunchy. Mine kind of crumbles when you bite it so its softer and the center bottom is not crunchy at all.  I am also not getting as much chewy doughy top and middle layers; but perhaps I can work on that later.

Can you tell me exactly what Jets does to get this harder fried crunch on the entire bottom; what necessary ingredients, type of dough, equip, how they make it in detail, etc.? Will I have to have their types of commercial equipment, pans, and supplies etc.? If so, what and where to get them?


I am using bread flour, putting it in pan to let it rise for few hours. Then push the middle down and add toppings and bake it on 500 deg. for about 8 to 9 min.

Ordered high gluten flour to try next.

What is the secret and/or method to their consistent hard fried crunch on the bottom? 

Thanks
Bob
Title: Re: Jets pizza
Post by: pizza king millinium on November 24, 2010, 11:13:04 AM
Hey to Pizza King Millenium.  Just now saw your message.  Thanks for response.

My family loves the square deep dish pizza of Jets.
I can't afford as many as we'd like so I would like to make them myself to fill in the gap. We will still get the Jets often and recommend them etc. as much as possible We just need more of them in between.

I'm close and my crust looks just like Jets fried bottom crust, but its not as hard and crunchy. Mine kind of crumbles when you bite it so its softer and the center bottom is not crunchy at all.  I am also not getting as much chewy doughy top and middle layers; but perhaps I can work on that later.

Can you tell me exactly what Jets does to get this harder fried crunch on the entire bottom; what necessary ingredients, type of dough, equip, how they make it in detail, etc.? Will I have to have their types of commercial equipment, pans, and supplies etc.? If so, what and where to get them?


I am using bread flour, putting it in pan to let it rise for few hours. Then push the middle down and add toppings and bake it on 500 deg. for about 8 to 9 min.

Ordered high gluten flour to try next.

What is the secret and/or method to their consistent hard fried crunch on the bottom? 

Thanks
Bob

Its a top secret procedure! Your almost there though, a little tweeking, if you want the true way, it will cost you $1000000.00, LOL
Title: Re: Jets pizza
Post by: boboo on November 24, 2010, 02:37:02 PM
You want $1,000,000.00 for the "secret". I can buy the whole franchise for $20,000.00; or hire a test kitchen for much less.  Are you under legal obligation not to disclose?  How close am I? What direction do I need to go in? ANYTHING!

Bob
Title: Re: Jets pizza
Post by: Pete-zza on November 24, 2010, 02:43:25 PM
Its a top secret procedure! Your almost there though, a little tweeking, if you want the true way, it will cost you $1000000.00, LOL

pizza king millinium,

Speaking as a Moderator, I do not think that it is a good idea for you to reveal anything of a proprietary nature about Jet's operations. I would imagine that Jet's has obligations of confidentiality that bind you even after you leave the company. I will also treat your million dollar comment as a joke so that others don't take what you said seriously.

I have done a fair amount of research on the Jet's operations recently, using only public information. I hope before long to note my findings for Bob's benefit. 

Peter
Title: Re: Jets pizza
Post by: Pete-zza on November 24, 2010, 05:04:32 PM
Bob,

I have detailed below what I have found to date about the Jetís operation and its pizzas. (Note: there are several edits to this post that should be noted as the post is read and studied since they clarify and update certain matters and also address dead links.)

The starting point for my recent research on this subject was the Jetís video at Jet's Pizza (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5lxLBp4-8dE#) That supplemented what I found through my earlier research on the Jetís pizzas.

The Jetís Company. The company has its headquarters in Sterling Heights, MI with 194 stores, with 16 more scheduled for opening. There are 141 stores in Michigan alone, with six more on the way. The Michigan connection is a dominant one in the Jetís video referenced above and ties in with some of the information provided below.

The Jet's Square Pans. Based on information I uncovered when starting this project, I was told that the Jet pan sizes were 10Ē x 10Ē (small), 13Ē x 15Ē (large), and 15Ē x 18Ē (extra large). There is no medium square pan size. Since the Jetís pans appear to have tapered sides, I canít say where the above measurements were taken but that is something that can be determined by taking measurements of purchased square pizzas from Jetís. After doing a fair amount of Google searching looking for pans with the above dimensions, and coming up empty, I concluded that they must be custom made for Jetís. However, this shouldnít deter us from the task at hand. If we are able to determine the thickness factor of a typical Jetís dough skin that is placed in a given size pan, it should be possible to come up with a dough formulation for essentially any other size pan. The pans used at Jetís appear to be steel rather than aluminum but it is possible that the pans are seasoned or dark anodized aluminum pans. There are not that many sources of square/rectangular steel pans. P.A. Products, which is not that far from the Jetís headquarters, sells steel square/rectangular pans to the trade (see http://www.paprod.com/pans.html (http://www.paprod.com/pans.html)) but not in the sizes used in Jetís stores. A search on the forum for steel pans, including blue steel pans, will turn up other sources of such pans but not in the sizes used in Jetís stores. [For an important update on the Jet's pan sizes and source, see EDIT 6 below.]

The Jetís Pizza Dough. The Jetís pizza dough is made daily in the Jetís stores. From what I was able to determine, the dough can be used the same day and any dough beyond that needed for that day to fill orders can be held overnight in a cooler and used the next day. After the second day, any unused dough is apparently discarded. Apparently not all Jet's stores follow that procedure. According to the article at http://plymouth-mi.patch.com/articles/super-bowl-sunday-the-big-game-means-big-business-for-plymouth-pizzerias (http://plymouth-mi.patch.com/articles/super-bowl-sunday-the-big-game-means-big-business-for-plymouth-pizzerias), one MI Jet's store discards the prior day's dough when making the new dough (note that the new dough is made at around 9 AM for a noontime store opening). The mixer shown in the Jetís video appears to be a Hobart mixer such as shown at http://www.nnysupply.com/mixers/l800.pdf (http://www.nnysupply.com/mixers/l800.pdf).

I was able to determine that the ingredients used to make the dough for the square pizzas are flour, water, salt, sugar, oil and yeast. I found independent confirmation of this list of ingredients at page 35 of the Northville (MI) public school ingredients list and nutritional information document at http://www.northville.k12.mi.us/district/foodservice/pdfs/MSIngred.pdf (http://www.northville.k12.mi.us/district/foodservice/pdfs/MSIngred.pdf). It is quite common for school districts to require ingredients and nutrition information for any products sold to it by outside vendors. Jetís has several programs that cater to businesses, schools and school lunch programs (e.g., see http://www.solake.org/FoodService/docs/menu_MS_201011.pdf (http://www.solake.org/FoodService/docs/menu_MS_201011.pdf)). If I had to guess, I would say that the types of pizzas sold by Jetís to school lunch programs are square pizzas. I base this on the fact that Jetís catering menus, at least the several I found online (e.g., see https://order.jetspizza.com/Menu.aspx?T=c&RestaurantID=4e88d34e-0059-467a-b35f-0ca1df188943 (https://order.jetspizza.com/Menu.aspx?T=c&RestaurantID=4e88d34e-0059-467a-b35f-0ca1df188943)), were limited to square/party tray type pizzas (http://web.archive.org/web/20130808064634/http://jetspizza.com/menu/item/27 (http://web.archive.org/web/20130808064634/http://jetspizza.com/menu/item/27)). Again, if I had to guess, the ingredients used to make pizzas for school programs are perhaps the same as used in the Jetís stores. It does not make a lot of sense to have a special dough formulation for only school lunch programs.

In addition to the dough used to make the square pizzas, there appears to be a second type of dough used to make the round NY style pizzas sold at Jetís stores. As noted below, the flour used for the NY style dough is apparently different than that used to make the dough for the square pizzas.

If my analysis on the Jetís dough is correct, it suggests that your dough formulation doesnít fit the parameters of the Jetís dough formulation based on the list and sequencing of ingredients (by weight) discussed above.

As noted in the Nutrition/Allergens section of the Jetís website (http://jetspizza.com/ (http://jetspizza.com/)), at http://jetspizza.com/pdf/allergeninformation-20151030.pdf (http://jetspizza.com/pdf/allergeninformation-20151030.pdf), the oil used in the dough for the square pizzas is corn oil. Soybean oil is apparently used with the ďthin crust flourĒ, quite likely as part of the flour blend used to make the round pizzas. This would suggest that any oil used in the square pans is corn oil. Previously, in Reply 6 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=8247.msg71260#msg71260 (http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=8247.msg71260#msg71260), I noted that the Allergen information at the time said that Red Star active dry yeast (ADY) was used. Normally, one does not treat dry yeast as an allergen, so that might explain its absence in the current Allergens information. The Jet's video shows the yeast going into the mixer bowl before the water. The usual way of rehydrating ADY is to mix it in warm water. Although instant dry yeast (IDY) can be rehydrated in water, it is usually added to the flour instead. For our purposes, I think I would be inclined to go with ADY and use warm water.

I should also note that there are gaps in the Jet's video. For example, a pitcher of water would not be enough to hydrate 50 pounds of flour. You would need gallons. Also, I suspect that there is more than one can of Jet Fuel that goes into the mixer bowl before diluting it with a can of water.

The Flour and Other Jetís Ingredients. I found a document (The Bulk Gourmet) that is highly unusual because the company behind it (http://www.thebulkgourmet.com/ (http://www.thebulkgourmet.com/)) is in the Barbados (Roatan), but the document, at https://web.archive.org/web/20090730144935/http://www.thebulkgourmet.com/catalogs/food_kitchen_laundry.pdf (https://web.archive.org/web/20090730144935/http://www.thebulkgourmet.com/catalogs/food_kitchen_laundry.pdf), lists several Jetís products, including Jetís Pizza FLOUR UNBLCHD ďPZZA SQĒ 50# JETS (at page 61), FLOUR HI-GLUTEN ďPZZA RNDĒ 50# JETS (also at page 61), SEASONING PIZZA SCE 12-26.7Z CASTELLA (at page 114), and SAUCE PIZZA PREP 6-10 JETS (at page 109). If you enter Jetís in the search box of that document, the search will turn up many other food products and supplies, including pepperoni, wings and other chicken-based products, used by Jetís in its stores. BTW, the ďCastellaĒ reference above is to Castella Imports, at http://www.castella.com/Products/Spices-Seasonings.aspx (http://www.castella.com/Products/Spices-Seasonings.aspx). Castella prepares proprietary blends of herbs and seasonings for various end users. It does not sell directly to the public. In the Jetís video, it will be noted that the herbs/seasoning blend is added to the mixer bowl right after the Jet Fuel tomato product is added to the bowl along with water to thin it down.

After staring at the above Barbados document for some time and wondering what it was, it finally hit me. It is an expanded or modified products list of Gordon Food Service (GFS), a well-known foodservice company with distribution centers in several states, including Michigan. It took me a fair amount of time to find the current GFS Product Guide to compare it with the Barbados document but I managed to hunt it down at the GFS website (http://www.gfs.com/en (http://www.gfs.com/en)). It is the document at http://www.gfs.com/files/pdf/gms/ProductGuide.pdf (http://www.gfs.com/files/pdf/gms/ProductGuide.pdf). To satisfy myself that the Barbados product guide referenced above was an expanded or modified version of the GFS Product Guide, I ran several of the GFS product numbers listed in the Barbados document through the search engine of the current GFS Product Guide. The matches were there. As a matter of fact, I wouldnít be surprised if GFS is the Michigan-based distribution company that Eugene Jetts mentioned in the Jetís video. GFS also has a distribution center in Florida, where Jetís has 10 stores and another on the way. (Note: The Bulk Gourmet Barbados document can also be found at http://www.docstoc.com/docs/41731252/BULK-GOURMET-PRICE-BOOK-UPDATED (http://www.docstoc.com/docs/41731252/BULK-GOURMET-PRICE-BOOK-UPDATED)).

What I donít yet know about the flour used by Jetís to make its square pizzas is whether the flour is bromated or not. Typically, pan doughs benefit from the use of bromated flours, especially if the dough skins in pans are proofed. If the flour for the square pizzas is bromated, that would rule out all-purpose flours since all-purpose flour is almost never bromated. That leaves us with flour with a protein content of bread flour or high-gluten flour. I think it is safe to say that the flour used to make the NY style doughs is a high-gluten flour, but not the flour used to make the dough for the square pizzas.

Jet Fuel. To see if I could find the source of the Jetís Jet Fuel tomatoes, I did a Google search using the exact phrase ďvine-ripened fresh tomatoes, salt and naturally derived citric acidĒ. This is the phrase that is used in the Northville public school document referenced earlier. The search turned up several tomato products of Stanislaus Food Products, a well-known supplier of tomato products to the pizza industry. My search also turned up a good place to research the Stanislaus tomato products, at http://profileshowcase.com/WEB-AFSProfile/Share/frmSearch.aspx (http://profileshowcase.com/WEB-AFSProfile/Share/frmSearch.aspx). Selecting Stanislaus from the pull-down menu, I was able to research the Stanislaus tomato products and find detailed profiles on those products (by clicking on the icons on the left). After researching the Stanislaus products, and assuming that Stanislaus is the supplier to Jetís, I would pick one of the Full Red or Saporito puree or ground/crushed tomatoes products as candidates for the Jet Fuel tomato product based on the consistency of the tomato sauce shown in the Jetís video. Stanislaus does not recommend watering down their tomato products (they believe that that damages the fresh tomato flavor) but that is a practice that is common in the industry.

I also ran the Stanislaus name through the The Bulk Gourmet Barbados document and the GFS Product Guide but did not find the particular Stanislaus products mentioned above. However, that shouldnít preclude Stanislaus from packing tomatoes in the Jet Fuel cans and shipping them to GFS for distribution to Jet store locations. We know from the Barbados document that the Jet Fuel tomatoes are listed in their version of the GFS document. As mentioned earlier, the supplier of the pizza sauce seasonings appears to be Castella Imports.

The Mozzarella Cheese. Apparently, the mozzarella cheese used by Jetís comes from the milk of contented cows that have their own mattresses and listen to opera. I thought that this was quite unusual until I did a Google search and found that supplying cows with mattresses and playing music had been done before. An example of what I found is the document at https://web.archive.org/web/20121123155755/http://www.purefood.org/rbgh/classical_music_milk_production.cfm (https://web.archive.org/web/20121123155755/http://www.purefood.org/rbgh/classical_music_milk_production.cfm). That document even goes so far as to list the best type of music to entertain and calm down the cows (the document also notes the less effective music). So, if you decide to get your own cows and treat them like the supplier of milk for the Jetís cheeses, you will know what music is the best to use. You might even sing to your cows to save having to buy audio equipment. For now, based on the Northville public school document referenced above, I would say that Jetís uses low-moisture part-skim mozzarella cheese as their pizza cheese. Also, according to an article about Jetís at http://community.timesfreepress.com/news/2010/dec/15/jets-pizza-lands-hixson/ (http://community.timesfreepress.com/news/2010/dec/15/jets-pizza-lands-hixson/), it appears that the cheese is grated in-store.

(Note: As an update on the mozzarella cheese, on 1/13/11 and 1/14/11 it was learned through email exchanges with Grande that Grande mozzarella cheese is used by Jet's stores in its network of stores. See Reply 54 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=8247.msg123283#msg123283 (http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=8247.msg123283#msg123283). Note also that the description of the Grande part skim loaf mozzarella cheese at http://www.grandecheese.com/products/Pages/Product_Spec.aspx?ProductMasterID=16 (http://www.grandecheese.com/products/Pages/Product_Spec.aspx?ProductMasterID=16) is the same as given in the ingredients list in the Northville public school document referenced above. To the best of my knowledge, the only firm mozzarella cheeses that Grande sells in loaf form are the part skim and whole mozzarella cheeses.)

Other Jetís Store Equipment. In addition to the Hobart mixer mentioned earlier, the Jet stores use other equipment. According to this document, https://web.archive.org/web/20100216210131/http://www.hfse.com/submnu/simple%20parts/Jets%20Pizza%20SPCE.pdf (https://web.archive.org/web/20100216210131/http://www.hfse.com/submnu/simple%20parts/Jets%20Pizza%20SPCE.pdf), the other types of equipment used in Jetís stores includes dough rollers (from Anets and Somerset), proofers (from Lockwood) and a conveyor oven (from Middleby-Marshall). More information on these products (other than the proofers) can be found at https://web.archive.org/web/20120202163006/http://anetsberger.com/equipment/ANETS-DoughRoller.pdf (https://web.archive.org/web/20120202163006/http://anetsberger.com/equipment/ANETS-DoughRoller.pdf), http://www.smrset.com/dough-roller-cdr-1550.shtml (http://www.smrset.com/dough-roller-cdr-1550.shtml) and http://www.middleby.com/pdf/mm/4501.pdf (http://www.middleby.com/pdf/mm/4501.pdf).

I spoke recently with sales and customer service reps at Anets and Somerset and was told that the only reason why one would have dough rollers in their stores is to roll out skins. As it turns out, the Anets and Somerset dough rollers, although marketed to make round skins, can also form rectangular skins. For example, at Jetís stores, workers can use the dual-pass feature of the above models of dough rollers to make round skins for their NY style pizzas, which requires turning the skin around 90 degrees after the first pass, or to make rectangular skins for their pan pizzas, which requires passing the skins through the machine twice in the same direction. I was told that the fit of the rectangular skins to pans is almost perfect, without even having to push the skins in the corners to get a good fit. If Jetís wants to tout their round skins as hand tossed, they can use the dough rollers to open up the skins part way (about 2/3 of the final desired skin size) and stretch the dough the rest of the way out by hand. If you want to see how a typical dual-pass dough roller works, see the video for the Somerset CDR-1550 at http://www.smrset.com/dough-roller-cdr-1550.shtml. (http://www.smrset.com/dough-roller-cdr-1550.shtml.)

I also spoke with a customer service rep at Lookwood (a Michigan company, http://www.lockwoodusa.com/9.html (http://www.lockwoodusa.com/9.html)) and was told that Jetís often uses their proofers to keep baked pizzas warm. However, since the Lockwood proofers have separate temperature and humidity control, there is no reason why the proofers canít be used to proof dough skins placed in the Jet square pans. Apparently the side rails of the Lockwood proofers can be removed or reconfigured to hold trays of pans. It is also possible that Jetís uses the proofers for other products, such as rolls used for sandwiches. The dough for such products might even be delivered to Jetís in frozen form. According to the nutrition/allergen section of the Jetís website, Jetís uses certain rolls from Caravan.

Iíd appreciate having your comments and observations once you have had a chance to digest the above information. I might then have some suggestions for courses of action on your part.

Peter

EDIT: Added the Jet Fuel section (11/27/10)

EDIT 2: Added information on yeast and details on hydration and use of Jet Fuel (11/29/10)

EDIT 3: On 11/30/10, I learned from Jet's that the flour used to make the Jet's square pizzas is not bromated (12/11/10)

EDIT 4: On 1/13/11 and 1/14/11, following up on a lead by another member, I learned that Jet's uses mozzarella cheese from Grande for all of its stores.

EDIT 5: On 4/20/11, it was learned from member Pizzahog that a Jet's store he frequents uses the Grande shredded low-moisture part-skim mozzarella cheese. This is not a material point since the block and shredded forms of this cheese have the same nutrition specs.

EDIT 6: On 4/27/11, I learned from the manufacturer of pan lids used by Jet's (http://www.pizzapanlids.com/ (http://www.pizzapanlids.com/)) that the three pan sizes are not as noted above. The correct sizes are 8" x 10", 10" x 14" and 12" x 17". The pans used by Jet's are blue steel pans made by Dover Parkersburg and sold by P.A. Products (734-421-1060) and also by Northern Pizza Equipment (1-877-303-5319). See, also, Reply 77 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,8247.msg137183.html#msg137183 (http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,8247.msg137183.html#msg137183) and the thread at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,13687.msg137011.html#msg137011. (http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,13687.msg137011.html#msg137011.)

EDIT 7 (4/26/13): For the Wayback Machine link to the hfse equipment document, see http://web.archive.org/web/20100216210131/http://www.hfse.com/submnu/simple%20parts/Jets%20Pizza%20SPCE.pdf (http://web.archive.org/web/20100216210131/http://www.hfse.com/submnu/simple%20parts/Jets%20Pizza%20SPCE.pdf); there are no Wayback Machine links for the no longer operative links to the Northville foodservive pdf document and to the profileshowcase document. However, a substitute document for the Northville document can be seen at http://www.northville.k12.mi.us/district/foodservice/pdfs/elem-ingredients.pdf (http://www.northville.k12.mi.us/district/foodservice/pdfs/elem-ingredients.pdf), and information on the Stanislaus tomato products can be found at http://www.stanislaus.com/products/nutrition-facts (http://www.stanislaus.com/products/nutrition-facts).

EDIT 8 (4/26/13): It appears that the sources of pans mentioned earlier in this thread (and in EDIT 6) and also in the Buddy's and other related threads are no longer sourcing those pans. However, pans for the Detroit style pizza are now being sold by the Detroit Style Pizza Co. (http://detroitstylepizza.co/detroit-style-pizza-pans/ (http://detroitstylepizza.co/detroit-style-pizza-pans/)).

EDIT 9 (1/25/16): Corrected several of the inoperative links and found Wayback Machine versions for some inoperative links; however, other links that were previously corrected are no longer operative. However, a copy that I made of the ingredients for the Northville school district gives the ingredients for a pepperoni pizza as follows: Dough (bleached wheat flour, malted barley flour, water, salt, sugar, oil, yeast), part-skim mozzarella cheese (pasteurized milk, cheese culture, salt, rennet), pizza sauce (vine-ripened tomatoes, salt and naturally derived citric acid), pizza seasoning, pepperoni (pork, beef, salt, spices, dextrose, lactic acid starter culture, oleoresin of paprika, flavorings, sodium nitrate, BHA, BHT, citric acid). Note that the oil is not added to the dough but is used in the pan.

EDIT 10 (1/26/15): At the latest Jet's Allergens list at http://jetspizza.com/pdf/allergeninformation-20151030.pdf (http://jetspizza.com/pdf/allergeninformation-20151030.pdf), there is a GMO statement as follows: GMO: There are no GMO grains in any of Jets products. Bay State Milling Company. This statement strongly suggests that the flour used to make Jet's pizzas is sourced by Bay State Milling. A listing of their flours can be seen in the Bay State Milling flour entry in the thread at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=40212.0 (http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=40212.0).
Title: Re: Jets pizza
Post by: norma427 on November 24, 2010, 09:37:04 PM
Peter,

I donít mean to interfere with Bobís and your research on Jetís pizza, but is Jetís pizza something like Buddyís Detroit style pizza?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Detroit-style_pizza

I read that Rob Peecher, 42, who owned Peecherís Pizza in Dearborn, Mich., for more than 20 years,  oversees the operations as the general manger for the local restaurants in Florida. Heís also a part-owner of Jetís pizza.
He said in the article I read ďWe donít scorch our pizzas,Ē Peecher said. ďIt takes a little longer to cook them. But it takes time for them to develop.Ē
To me they look similar anyway.

Norma
Title: Re: Jets pizza
Post by: Pete-zza on November 24, 2010, 09:43:08 PM
I donít mean to interfere with Bobís and your research on Jetís pizza, but is Jetís pizza something like Buddyís Detroit style pizza?

Norma,

Bob will know better than I, but I would say yes. However, Jet's puts down the sauce and cheese in the usual manner, that is, the sauce goes down before the cheese.

Peter
Title: Re: Jets pizza
Post by: PizzaHog on November 25, 2010, 11:06:51 PM
Wow, that is some serious sleuthing Peter, following the trail all the way to the Barbados and back to Michigan  :o !
I have eaten a few thousand Jet's since they appeared here in MI and can confirm a little in hope of helping.
-Yup, this a Det style as you and Norma surmised with carmelized cheese crust, crispy bottom, and moist not too bready crumb, but Jet's version uses less pungent mozz cheese and puts it on top as with all toppings.
-I have never seen any device or proofer of any kind to keep the pies warm myself.
-According to my kids the Jet's served at school is the same as the retail.
As best guesses:
I am as sure as I can be without having handled them with a magnet that the pans are steel and super well seasoned.
The GFS linkage you established is quite likely IMHO. 
TF around 0.125 should be close as a starting point.
boboo, if you are in the Det area many on the forum have located sources other than GFS where various ingredients and equipment can be found so post if so.  Good luck and with Peter's help you will get there for sure.
Title: Re: Jets pizza
Post by: chickenparm on November 26, 2010, 01:25:46 AM
I have worked at Jet's for 20 years, I know everything there is to know about the business.

Well,you want a medal from us here?
 ;D
If you are going to sign up on here and make that Bold statement,and this IS a "Pizza Making" forum,we are going to assume you will help us.The money joke kidding aside...

If not,then why brag online here,you were there 20 years? Doesn't do us folks a bit of good.

Come one,spill everything we need to know!
 :-D




Title: Re: Jets pizza
Post by: Pete-zza on November 26, 2010, 11:31:05 PM
-According to my kids the Jet's served at school is the same as the retail.

Hog,

Would it be possible for you to ask your kids whether the Jet's pizzas they get at school are the square pizzas, maybe the party tray (http://web.archive.org/web/20130808064634/http://jetspizza.com/menu/item/27) or even the 8-Corner pizzas (http://jetspizza.com/menu/item/37)? I didn't see any specific nutrition information for the 8-Corner pizza at the Jet's website but I believe I later read that the 8-Corner pizza is made up of two small square pizzas. That would suggest that the two small square pizzas are cut into a total of eight pieces rather than twelve.

I didn't mention it earlier but if one looks at the Barbados product guide, there are other chains mentioned, including Ruth's Chris, P. F. Chang/Pei Wei and Johnny Rockets. Unless these companies have retail product extensions sold through GFS, this would seem to lend credence to GFS being a distributor for Jet's Pizza.

I also noted in the Jet's video that there are two colored bags of flour, a brownish one for the square pizza and a white one that is perhaps the flour for the NY style.

Peter
Title: Re: Jets pizza
Post by: PizzaHog on November 27, 2010, 11:59:13 AM
Hi Peter
I prob should have noted my info on the school Jet's may be dated as the kids are all growed up now, but back then they were the square party trays.  The 8 corner pie is indeed 2 small squares served together and cut into larger size pieces than the standard small square, but these pies were not yet sold by Jet's when the kids were in school.
Since joining the forum and researching local pizza and restraunt suppliers, taking note of what ingredients are visible while visiting local pizzeria's, asking questions at same, and even noticing what delivery trucks I encounter while driving about, GFS makes sense.  They are certainly not the only supplier around, but are THE big player are far as I can tell.  Every pizzeria I have visited where I could see behind the sales counter had GFS branded products of some type visible.  Plus, the Jet's video linked earlier in the thread claims their distributor (as well as most everything else) is a MI based company and only GFS fits the bill AFAIK.
Cheese wise this makes sense also as Jet's does not advertise Grande brand as many others do and all my inquiries at GFS indicate they do not handle Grande.  As an aside, I never have been able find just who does handle Grande around here that sells to the public and have never been able to try it!
With all this Jet's talk I may just have to go pick one up this weekend.  If so, or when I next do, I will try and gather some addn'l info.
Title: Re: Jets pizza
Post by: Pete-zza on November 27, 2010, 12:32:26 PM
With all this Jet's talk I may just have to go pick one up this weekend.  If so, or when I next do, I will try and gather some addn'l info.


Hog,

Thanks for the update. I was going to give boboo (Bob) a homework assignment once he checks back into this thread. One of the things I was going to ask him to do is to take the measurements of a typical square pie from Jet's. I would tell him to order the pie uncut and to take as many measurements as possible. If the pans are indeed tapered, there should be several measurements. When I do this sort of thing, I do it in the car, right outside the restaurant before the pizza cools down. It is easier to do things to the pizza, including weighing it, when it is uncut.

I don't want or expect you to go through this kind of drill, but I will take any inputs at this point.

Peter
Title: Re: Jets pizza
Post by: PizzaHog on November 27, 2010, 12:50:48 PM
I don't want or expect you to go through this kind of drill, but I will take any inputs at this point.
Peter
Actually, this sounds fun and I would be happy to contribute.  Luckily for me the nearest and favorite Jet's is just down the road so I could bring it home minutes out of the oven and measure, weigh and disect it in any way helpful.  I usually buy small squares now, would that work or is a large better?  If you could detail the specifics needed I will have at it with the next pie, although that may or may not be this weekend.
Hog
Title: Re: Jets pizza
Post by: Pete-zza on November 27, 2010, 01:13:37 PM
Since joining the forum and researching local pizza and restaurant suppliers, taking note of what ingredients are visible while visiting local pizzeria's, asking questions at same, and even noticing what delivery trucks I encounter while driving about, GFS makes sense.  They are certainly not the only supplier around, but are THE big player are far as I can tell.  Every pizzeria I have visited where I could see behind the sales counter had GFS branded products of some type visible.  Plus, the Jet's video linked earlier in the thread claims their distributor (as well as most everything else) is a MI based company and only GFS fits the bill AFAIK.
Cheese wise this makes sense also as Jet's does not advertise Grande brand as many others do and all my inquiries at GFS indicate they do not handle Grande

Hog,

I remember reading where the owner of a new Jet's store said that they were using a great mozzarella cheese but groused that it cost him an arm and a leg. I would think that mozzarella cheese made from milk produced by cows in their stalls on mattresses listening to opera would cost more than usual. Eugene Jett says in the video that his company goes through 8.5 million pounds of mozzarella cheese a year. That comes to about 3% of the U.S. total annual mozzarella cheese production. I read that a cow on average produces around 20,000 pounds of milk per year and that that amount of milk will make about 2000 pounds of mozzarella cheese (on a 10:1 basis). If those numbers are correct, that means that Eugene Jett has about 4250 cows on his payroll, lounging around on mattresses listening to music  :-D.

Peter
Title: Re: Jets pizza
Post by: Pete-zza on November 27, 2010, 01:25:49 PM
Peter
Actually, this sounds fun and I would be happy to contribute.  Luckily for me the nearest and favorite Jet's is just down the road so I could bring it home minutes out of the oven and measure, weigh and disect it in any way helpful.  I usually buy small squares now, would that work or is a large better?  If you could detail the specifics needed I will have at it with the next pie, although that may or may not be this weekend.
Hog

Hog,

That is mighty nice of you to be willing to do that. If you buy the small squares, that should be fine. I can ask Bob to buy a larger size to get the corresponding data, if he is willing to do that.

Basically what I would like to get in your case is the dimensions of the small square. As I mentioned earlier, there may be more measurements than usual because of the apparent tapering of the pans. Then I would like the weight of the pizza. When I go through this kind of exercise, I usually buy either a cheese pizza or one with pepperoni only because it is easier to reverse engineer to get the dough data if there aren't too many toppings. If I get the pepperoni pizza, I measure the diameter of the slices and count how many slices are on the pizza. If I am able to watch the workers who make my pizzas, I try to estimate how much sauce and cheese they put on the pizza. Ultimately the objective is to try to arrive at a dough ball weight and corresponding thickness factor. If you are lucky, a worker might know the dough ball weight and tell you what it is. It does not always hold that the same thickness factor is used for all pan sizes.

There is no urgency on my part, so do what you can at your leisure.

Peter
Title: Re: Jets pizza
Post by: PizzaHog on November 27, 2010, 01:36:43 PM
Peter
Will do with my next Jet's pie.
However, I think your cow calculation may need some revision.  According to this http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=112954171 (http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=112954171) the mattress lounging cows produce 5% more milk then their not so comfortable cousins.  And that does not take into account any further additions from the music these cows chew their cud to.
Now if I can only find a dairy farm in Michigan with about 4,000 chaise lounging, hoof tapping cows, we will have found this cheese!  I'll have to get back to you on this one...
Title: Re: Jets pizza
Post by: Pete-zza on November 27, 2010, 01:55:48 PM
However, I think your cow calculation may need some revision.  According to this http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=112954171 (http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=112954171) the mattress lounging cows produce 5% more milk then their not so comfortable cousins.  And that does not take into account any further additions from the music these cows chew their cud to.
Now if I can only find a dairy farm in Michigan with about 4,000 chaise lounging, hoof tapping cows, we will have found this cheese!  I'll have to get back to you on this one...

Hog,

I stand corrected. Everything that I read about lounging cows said that the amount of milk produced increased when the cows were given such nice treatment. However, in the video, Eugene Jett says that the milk is "better", not more.

Peter
Title: Re: Jets pizza
Post by: boboo on November 29, 2010, 12:48:23 PM
Just now getting back. Thanks Pete for everything!!!!!

I will get every measurement and weight there is on an uncut large square Jets with only a cheese topping ASAP.

Should I start attempting to get some supplies and pans etc. from these supplier companies you found by some means? 
 
I am not even at novice stage if anyone wants to be sent any supplies to experiment.

I tried the high gluten flour from King Arthur with reduced oil. It was chewier.  First try though did not get the hard bottom crunch. Kind of missed the timing, so couldn't tell yet if any improvement. Will try some more to see the difference. Also, still not getting the thick uncooked chewy layer under the sauce either.

But I noticed Pete that you concluded the square pan did not have a high gluten flour.  So I guess this is not the way to go?

Thanks

Bob
Title: Re: Jets pizza
Post by: Pete-zza on November 29, 2010, 02:28:04 PM
Bob,

It would be helpful if you got every measurement (because of the tapering of the pans) of a large square Jet's cheese pizza. I would also like the weight of the baked pizza as soon as you can weigh it. I have even gone so far in the past of scraping everything off of a purchased pizza in order to get a rough baked weight of the crust only. Usually the cheese is congealed and, especially if the sauce is on the thin side, it gives off a lot of moisture during baking and leaves just a little residue on the crust. For now, there is no need for you to go that far. You should enjoy the pizza--after you have taken all of the measurements. With your measurements and Hog's measurements, we might be able to tell if the scaling of the Jet's square pizzas is proportional. It is quite common for that not to be so, either because of assembly or baking considerations or because operators like to work with dough ball weights that are not oddball numbers, like numbers with fractions. It is also possible that the dough balls used to make the small pizzas are combined to make the larger pizzas. 

I would also ask for a sample of the Jet's regular pizza sauce on the side. Sometimes pizza places have those little tubs of sauce for customers to use for dipping crusts but those sauces usually are different than their regular sauces and contain preservatives that can give the sauce a medicinal taste. I usually tell the workers that it is for my daughter for dipping purposes and she won't eat the sauce with the chemicals. If you can get a sample of the sauce, I would like you to examine it for things like seeds and small pieces of tomato skin, any chunkiness of tomatoes, and anything else that you can see. It will usually be herbs, which we know are in the sauce if Jet's is using the Castella herb pouches. You should also taste the sauce to detect things like salt, sugar, pepper, garlic and herbs like oregano, which tends to be one of the most common herbs used in pizza sauces. If Jet's is using a Stanislaus tomato product, as I suspect, it will be naturally sweet because Stanislaus uses fresh-pack tomatoes that are processed during a very short window after picking, which makes the tomatoes sweeter than most brands of tomatoes.

If you can take and post some photos of the Jet's pizza you buy, for example, after slicing, that might be useful since real pizzas made by chains often look different than the pizzas shown at their websites. A crumb shot showing the height of the pizza would be especially useful as would a shot of the bottom crust showing the coloration and degree of crisping.

I would be very surprised if Jet's is using high-gluten flour for the dough for its square pizzas. If that were the case, they would only have to use one kind of flour, not two as shown in the Jet's video and also in the Barbados document. At some point, I would like to find out whether the flour used for the Jet's square pizzas is bromated or not, and also whether it is bleached, as the Northville data suggests. You might try asking a worker at the Jet's you go to if their flour for the square pizzas is bromated. Often workers don't even know what bromated flours are. I usually explain that bromated flours are outlawed in California and that a member of the family from California who will be eating the pizzas is sensitive to that.

I would hold back for now on getting supplies and pans. I'd like to get the numbers for their pizzas as best I can and then decide what is the best way to proceed from there.

BTW, where are you located, near one of the Jet's shops in Michigan or at a franchise location somewhere else out of that state?

Peter
Title: Re: Jets pizza
Post by: Mipizza1 on November 29, 2010, 05:22:55 PM
Norma,

Bob will know better than I, but I would say yes. However, Jet's puts down the sauce and cheese in the usual manner, that is, the sauce goes down before the cheese.

Peter
Jets has a more dense crust. When u bite into jets it has a crunch. 
Title: Re: Jets pizza
Post by: boboo on November 29, 2010, 08:55:12 PM
I'm in Tennessee with a Jets just around the corner.

I will get some pictures and the sauce etc.  I'll ask em about bromated.

I think you are right about their sq. pan not being high gluten.  Jets is just like all others in the chewy aspect.  It is very white so I guess its bleached.  It has a cooked layer and a larger uncooked layer, both layers are very very chewy, but not like the high gluten I just tried.

I did try the high gluten a 2nd time (burnt first one)  and it did give me a harder, crunchier,
more "stuck together" bottom crust.  Not as good as Jets ( esp. the middle) but I got much much closer. It did solve my flaky crumbly problem.

This may aid in that if the high gluten also starts down the crunchy road, it might point to what else would also do so with all purpose flour.

Jets crunch is easily and consistently done for them. That is, they have no problem getting it every time. I noticed, they can even fine tune it at will. ( I guess with cooking temps and time)

Also, mine has to work on taste as well. Mine is kinda funky tasting so far.

Thanks
Bob
Title: Re: Jets pizza
Post by: Pete-zza on November 29, 2010, 09:25:05 PM
I'm in Tennessee with a Jets just around the corner.

Bob,

Can you tell me which one of the TN Jet's you go to? Jet's is getting pretty big in TN, with 15 stores and 3 more on the way. Usually when Jet's opens a new store, it is common for an article to be written up in a local newspaper to herald the opening of the new store. Sometimes there is a tidbit in the article about how they make their pizzas. Then, reviews typically follow.

Peter
Title: Re: Jets pizza
Post by: boboo on November 29, 2010, 09:37:32 PM
Its a new one in Nashville on Richard Jones Road.

Title: Re: Jets pizza
Post by: Pete-zza on November 30, 2010, 03:44:08 PM
There will be no need for anyone to inquire as to whether the flour for the Jet's square pizza is bromated or not. Today, I called Jet's Pizza and spoke with a customer service rep who looked into the matter and emailed me to tell me that the flour is not bromated. Apparently, I was the first person to ever ask if the Jet's flour is bromated. Jet's had to go to the supplier of the flour to get the answer.

I also learned a bit more about how Jet's handles school programs. Apparently many states have legal requirements that limit how much fat and other components can be in food products supplied to schools in the state. Once Jet's is aware of the requirements, it works with its nutrition department to come up with products that satisfy the legal requirements. At the store level, this might mean using less cheese or less pepperoni than normal to be in compliance. Also, schools might want larger or smaller pizza pieces than sold in the stores.

The Jet's pizzas supplied to schools can be square pizzas or their round pizzas. When I looked at the Nutrition Facts in the Northville document referenced earlier, I could not match those Nutrition Facts with any existing Jet's product. Quite likely the Northville school pizzas were designed especially for them based on their specific nutrition requirements.

Peter
Title: Re: Jets pizza
Post by: AustinSpartan on January 11, 2011, 10:00:42 AM
A few points that I can clarify.

I noticed discussion of the cheese did not notice any resolution. I did confirm that the cheese used is a Grande mozzarella.

The thin-crust dough is brought in frozen, and all of the deep dish is made daily.

Title: Re: Jets pizza
Post by: Pete-zza on January 11, 2011, 07:02:09 PM
A few points that I can clarify.

I noticed discussion of the cheese did not notice any resolution. I did confirm that the cheese used is a Grande mozzarella.

The thin-crust dough is brought in frozen, and all of the deep dish is made daily.



AustinSpartan,

Can you tell me where you got confirmation that the cheese used at Jet's is Grande?

By "thin crust", I assume you are referring to a Jet's thin crust pizza such as shown at http://jetspizza.com/menu/item/67. If so, it is quite common for chain operators to use frozen shells for that style. Domino's and Papa John's and Pizza Hut do that.

Peter
Title: Re: Jets pizza
Post by: Pete-zza on January 13, 2011, 05:48:23 PM
Following up on AustinSpartan's lead and hoping to get an answer to the Jet's mozzarella cheese question, this afternoon I sent an email to Grande using the Contact Us feature at the Grande website at http://www.grande.com/Pages/Welcome.aspx. In the email, I referenced the Jet's video in which the founder of Jet's (Gene Jett) discussed how the cows whose milk is used to make the Jet's mozzarella cheese are given mattresses to rest on and are entertained with operatic music. I also mentioned that I was led to believe that Jet's procured its mozzarella cheese from Grande. Not long after I sent the email, I received the following reply:

Jetís pizza shops based out of Michigan currently use Grande Cheese products.  Grande Cheese Company would have no control over what is mentioned about the animal treatment outside of the prepared information on our web site at www.grandecheese.com.

The above would suggest that Jet's is using another cheese source in Michigan where it still has a large number of stores, more than in any other state.

Peter
Title: Re: Jets pizza
Post by: AustinSpartan on January 13, 2011, 07:53:22 PM
Following up on AustinSpartan's lead and hoping to get an answer to the Jet's mozzarella cheese question, this afternoon I sent an email to Grande using the Contact Us feature at the Grande website at http://www.grande.com/Pages/Welcome.aspx. In the email, I referenced the Jet's video in which the founder of Jet's (Gene Jett) discussed how the cows whose milk is used to make the Jet's mozzarella cheese are given mattresses to rest on and are entertained with operatic music. I also mentioned that I was led to believe that Jet's procured its mozzarella cheese from Grande. Not long after I sent the email, I received the following reply:

Jetís pizza shops based out of Michigan currently use Grande Cheese products.  Grande Cheese Company would have no control over what is mentioned about the animal treatment outside of the prepared information on our web site at www.grandecheese.com.

The above would suggest that Jet's is using another cheese source in Michigan where it still has a large number of stores, more than in any other state.

Peter

I do believe that you're interpreting this response incorrectly. This reads to me as 'all of our Michigan Jet's Pizza locations use Grande Cheese Products'. If he meant to say that it was all but Michigan that used Grande, it would have read, "Jetís pizza shops based outside of Michigan currently use Grande Cheese products."

The marketing that Jet's uses for their cheese probably does not reflect the actual conditions, and Grande does not control this statement made by Jet's. Just my thoughts based on what I'm reading here. I'm pretty sure that all midwest Jet's pizza locations use Grande, though that might be different in Texas.
Title: Re: Jets pizza
Post by: Pete-zza on January 13, 2011, 08:17:15 PM
AustinSpartan,

I don't see the interpretation you attach to the Grande response. To me, "based" implies a physical presence somewhere (http://www.yourdictionary.com/based-suffix). The last time I researched Jet's, there were close to 150 stores in Michigan--open stores and stores scheduled to open. There are around 65 stores open or scheduled to open outside of Michigan. I would guess that all of the stores outside of Michigan are licensee stores. They are in FL, OH, TX, NC, MN, TN, GA, IL, KY and IN. I'm sure that over time, stores will open in additional states. Since Grande has a national distribution system, it would make sense to me to use them for the stores outside of Michigan, and retain the current supplier in Michigan, at least for the time being if there are business or marketing reasons to do so.

Peter
Title: Re: Jets pizza
Post by: AustinSpartan on January 13, 2011, 09:25:34 PM
AustinSpartan,

I don't see the interpretation you attach to the Grande response. To me, "based" implies a physical presence somewhere (http://www.yourdictionary.com/based-suffix). The last time I researched Jet's, there were close to 150 stores in Michigan--open stores and stores scheduled to open. There are around 65 stores open or scheduled to open outside of Michigan. I would guess that all of the stores outside of Michigan are licensee stores. They are in FL, OH, TX, NC, MN, TN, GA, IL, KY and IN. I'm sure that over time, stores will open in additional states. Since Grande has a national distribution system, it would make sense to me to use them for the stores outside of Michigan, and retain the current supplier in Michigan, at least for the time being if there are business or marketing reasons to do so.

Peter

The phrase 'based out of' is a way of describing the presence of a company located in a particular area. I'd venture to say this is a regional use of the phrase, and as a fellow midwesterner, I am lead to believe that they mean in Michigan; not outside of Michigan.

As a reference, it may be poor English, but this is how I've heard it used in MI: http://www.dailywritingtips.com/based-in-and-based-out-of/

I can always contact my source and ask directly to clarify any miscommunication in the Grande response. :)
Title: Re: Jets pizza
Post by: Chippewafan on January 14, 2011, 03:59:08 AM
Gordon Food Service (GFS) does sell Grande. You have to ask a manager to order it for you. You have to order a whole case. My last order cost $81. It freezes very well.

I use BDoggPizza's recipe for my Detroit style pizza. It come out very close to Jett's.
Title: Re: Jets pizza
Post by: Pete-zza on January 14, 2011, 09:30:20 AM
I use BDoggPizza's recipe for my Detroit style pizza. It come out very close to Jett's.

Chippewafan,

I'm glad you mentioned BDoggPizza's recipe. For those unfamiliar with that recipe, it is the one given at Reply 17 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,3783.msg62787.html#msg62787 and as I converted it to baker's percent format at Reply 19 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,3783.msg62820.html#msg62820.

From my perspective, the relevance of the BDoggPizza dough recipe to the Jet's situation is that, as best I can tell from my Jet's research, it recites the same ingredients as I believe Jet's uses to make the dough for its square pizzas. Moreover, the baker's percents appear to be in the same pecking order as the Jet's dough recipe I found in my research. Apart from specific baker's percents values, what we don't know is if the thickness factor used by BDoggPizza is the same as used by Jet's. It will take more information about the Jet's pizzas to arrive at what we hope will the correct, or at least workable, thickness factor for the Jet's square pizzas. Until then, there is no harm if people want to use the expanded dough calculating tool at http://www.pizzamaking.com/expanded_calculator.html to adapt BDoggPizza's recipe for a rectangular or square pan rather than a round one as was used by BDoggPizza.

Peter
Title: Re: Jets pizza
Post by: Pete-zza on January 14, 2011, 10:15:15 AM
I can always contact my source and ask directly to clarify any miscommunication in the Grande response. :)

AustinSpartan,

I sent a follow-up email to Grande last night in which I specifically asked whether Grande is the supplier to only the Jet's stores outside of Michigan, i.e., none in Michigan. This morning, I received the reply reproduced below, which apparently was to clarify what was meant by the words "based out of". Here is the reply I got this morning:

Grande Cheese company is supplying all the Jetís locations in the network of pizzeriaís

Assuming that the above is true, and that what Gene Jett says in the video about the cows is also true, that must mean that Grande deals with at least one dairy farmer who provides mattresses and music for their cows.

Peter
Title: Re: Jets pizza
Post by: Pete-zza on January 14, 2011, 08:30:35 PM
Here is further evidence of the use by Jet's of Grande mozzarella cheese, in Michigan in this case: http://foodio54.com/restaurant/Monroe-MI/39566/Jets-Pizza-Of-Monroe.

I also confirmed that Gordon Food Services (GFS) carries many of the Grande mozzarella cheeses, in various forms (block, diced and shredded). The Grande offerings appear in the Bulk Gourmet document at https://web.archive.org/web/20090730144935/http://www.thebulkgourmet.com/catalogs/food_kitchen_laundry.pdf (https://web.archive.org/web/20090730144935/http://www.thebulkgourmet.com/catalogs/food_kitchen_laundry.pdf) and also in the GFS Product Guide at http://www.gfs.com/files/pdf/gms/ProductGuide.pdf, both of which were referenced earlier in this thread in Reply 26 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,8247.msg118161.html#msg118161. However, it is not clear whether GFS or Grande handles the distribution of the Grande cheeses. From our perspective, it is not material.

Peter
Title: Re: Jets pizza
Post by: StrayBullet on January 15, 2011, 11:04:44 AM
I also confirmed that Gordon Food Services (GFS) carries many of the Grande mozzarella cheeses, in various forms (block, diced and shredded).

I've been buying low moisture whole milk shredded Grande at my local GFS...LOVE this cheese.  One of these days, I'll ask about them acquiring the East Coast Blend :)
Title: Re: Jets pizza
Post by: Pete-zza on January 26, 2011, 11:28:08 AM
One of our members, apizza, posted a link to an article today at, http://www.freep.com/article/20110123/COL20/101230384/Shortage-of-steel-pans-has-Detroit-style-pizza-makers-scrambling, in which there is a discussion of the Detroit-style steel deep-dish pans such as used at places like Buddy's and Jet's to make their pizzas. According to the article, manufacturers of such pans have not been able to keep up with demand for the deep-dish pans. It appears that Gene Jett is one of the major users of the steel deep-dish pans who has been frustrated by the shortage of the pans, as is clear from this excerpt from the article:

But a very frustrated Eugene Jett -- cofounder of the fast-growing Jet's Pizza chain -- is through waiting.

After promised deliveries didn't come in September or December, he went into action.

"We've tried other pans and (the pizza) doesn't come out as good," he says. So he had the original pans analyzed by a lab in Lansing, found a manufacturer, and is having them made -- right here in Michigan. He says the key, by the way, is the thickness of the steel.

"They're cutting them as we speak," he said last week. And not a moment too soon: Two new Jet's are opening at the end of the month and he's totally out of pans, after giving each of his last three stores only 75% of what they needed.

"The first thing is for me to get my pans," he says; the first run is enough for nine stores. If the manufacturer thinks they'd be profitable, it could put them into full production, he says.

"It took me a long time to figure out how to get them done," Jett said. "But I decided then, I will build my own pans."


To date, I have not been able to find either the sizes of pans that Jet's uses or a probable supplier. This has led me to conclude that Jet's deep-dish pans are a non-standard proprietary product made especially for them.

Peter
Title: Re: Jets pizza
Post by: norma427 on March 29, 2011, 10:23:17 PM
I tried to make a Jetís pizza dough, but forgot to take my round steel pan to market today. The dough was made on Sunday. I had to cut the dough so it would fit in Steveís 10" blue steel pan. I then had no idea of what thickness factor I was using. I did use a lot of oil in Steveís pan, but the bottom of this pizza didnít get real crispy, like a Jetís pizza is supposed to be.  The pizza didnít really turn out like a Jetís pizza, but was good.  The rest of the dough ball was frozen.

These are the pictures and the formula I used for the attempt at a Jetís pizza.

Norma
Title: Re: Jets pizza
Post by: norma427 on March 29, 2011, 10:25:01 PM
end of pictures

Norma
Title: Re: Jets pizza
Post by: norma427 on March 29, 2011, 10:27:56 PM
formula used for this attempt

Norma
Title: Re: Jets pizza
Post by: Pete-zza on March 30, 2011, 08:01:15 AM
Norma,

As best I can tell, Jet's makes a rectangular/square pizza and a round pizza, using different flours and possibly different formulations. This thread has been devoted thus far to the rectangular/square format. Are you looking to make the rectangular/square pizza but in a round format?

Looking at your dough formulation, it appears that the ingredients are in the right pecking order for the rectangular/square Jet's format. I have not seen or found a dough ingredients list for the dough for the Jet's round pizza.

Also, is there a particular reason why you chose the particular dough preparation sequence you used rather than the one shown in the original Jet's video?

Peter
Title: Re: Jets pizza
Post by: norma427 on March 30, 2011, 09:35:46 AM
Norma,

As best I can tell, Jet's makes a rectangular/square pizza and a round pizza, using different flours and possibly different formulations. This thread has been devoted thus far to the rectangular/square format. Are you looking to make the rectangular/square pizza but in a round format?

Looking at your dough formulation, it appears that the ingredients are in the right pecking order for the rectangular/square Jet's format. I have not seen or found a dough ingredients list for the dough for the Jet's round pizza.

Also, is there a particular reason why you chose the particular dough preparation sequence you used rather than the one shown in the original Jet's video?

Peter

Peter,

I did see Jetís makes a round pizza, but I wanted to try to see if I could make a Jetís rectangular/square pizza.  I donít have the right kind of steel baking pan to try, so I thought I would try out my 18" steel baking pan, but since I forgot that when I went to market, I had to find another pan to try. 

The only reason I tried the mixing the way I did was I wanted to see if a lower hydration dough could be mixed just with the paddle attachment, with bread flour. I found out that didnít work to well.  I had to use the dough hook to finish the dough.  The next time I try this formula out, I will mix the way that is shown in the video.  I am not to sure when I make my next attempt if I should use the bread flour I used or go with bromated high-gluten flour.  I donít understand either why the bottom crust didnít get more crisp, with all the olive oil I used, but it still was good.

If you have any other ideas for me to try next time or see changes I should make, let me know. 

These are a few pictures of the dough used for my attempt, that I forgot to include last evening.  The first two pictures are of the dough before it was divided and the last picture is before the proofing of the dough in the pan. 

Norma
Title: Re: Jets pizza
Post by: norma427 on April 05, 2011, 11:43:42 PM
I used the leftover frozen dough from my last post and tried another Jetís pizza today.  Since I didnít know what TF I was using again, because it was the leftover dough, I tried my round deep-dish pan (not steel) for this attempt.  I also used more olive oil in the pan.  This attempt turned out much better and although the bottom isnít altogether brown, this pizza did have a definite crunch when eaten.  I really donít know how a Jetís pizza is suppose to taste, but the pizza was really good.  Both Steve and I agreed that this was better than last weeks attempt.  Steve and I gave some other standholders slices of this pie and they also really liked this pie.

Pictures below

Norma
Title: Re: Jets pizza
Post by: norma427 on April 05, 2011, 11:45:29 PM
end of pictures

Norma
Title: Re: Jets pizza
Post by: jets147 on April 06, 2011, 01:43:53 AM
when i first saw this post i laughed for a few minutes. jets pizza is extreamly easy to make and produce. you need a few things. this first step is how much do u want. typeically if u want to make a lot. u make a four water. which is 16 quarts of hot water. the water must be hot. if the water is steaming it is too hot and u will burn out the yeast. the next things u will need are simple. 1 cup of sugar, salt, and yeast. stir with wisp to make sure contents are mixed well and get and even taste. next is your flour. bromated flour is fine, but it tends to get more air bubbles. i would stick with none bromated. 50 pounds bags of flour we use are specically designed for jets pizza. no other pizza place use the same ingriedents as us. if u want more details on the flour jets email me [email protected] when the dough is completed is should not be stiff. it should be soft and sticky. the reason for the soft and sticky is when u go to throw the dough out, it is easier to stretch and fit into the pan. now the pans are extreamly hard to come by now a days becuase they have been banned by the fda. now they are only offerd outside the country or threw other store owners. smalls are 12 oz larges are 21 and xtra larges are 31. after put into the pans, depending on the temp of store it takes 30 mins to 1 hour for the dough top rise. (make sure ur pans have corn oil on them)after that it u must "press the dough out" this processes is basically makeing the dough fit to the pan corner to corner. once pressed out it takes about 45 mins for it rise again. now, it can be more then 45 mins if u want. or less. more time u wait the fluffier the dough will be.


I am a manager at jets pizza and i have been doind this routine for about 3 years now, i know it like the back of my hand. jets has rounds too, although we don't sell nearly as many as our sqaure deep dish. we just interdouced a new type of flour, a multi-grain. so far it is not popular.
 honestly it taste like bark from a tree.
 
as for chesse it low moisture skim. shred well.

as for sauce i cant do much for u. we regular tomato sauce as the base. the spice i don't know becuase there is no way to find out unlesss u go to manufatcer. on the package it just says " Spices " there is obviously iregeno and garlics. but which ones i don't know.

do not do your rounds in pans. it is a waste of money to use the pans for rounds. use a round metal screen.

i saw this site when i was messing around. i am always looking for new places to work. so if anyone is a busness owner and wants a person with great pizza expiernece email me at ken[email protected] and questions email me.
Title: Re: Jets pizza
Post by: Pete-zza on April 06, 2011, 06:12:48 PM
jets147,

Did you forget the corn oil (and its amount) added to the dough (or to the water used to make the dough) as opposed to the corn oil (and its amount) used in the pans? Also, does your store have and use a proofer?

Peter
Title: Re: Jets pizza
Post by: jets147 on April 08, 2011, 11:24:52 PM
no corn oil is needed for the dough to be made. but there does need to be oil in the pans. yes our store does have a proofer. but we just use it as a hotbox to store orders.
Title: Re: Jets pizza
Post by: Pete-zza on April 08, 2011, 11:45:37 PM
jets147,

Thank you. Before I posed the question to you, I went back and looked at the Jet's video again. I saw dry ingredients in the mixer bowl before the water was added, but I did not see any oil anywhere near the dough. I concluded that the only oil was for the pans. Obviously, some of the oil ends up in the pizza and that is why the ingredients list I saw lists oil. You can't always tell when a video is staged in some fashion or edited to leave certain things out, so I wasn't completely sure about the oil. But you confirmed my suspicions.

With respect to the proofer, I was told (I believe it was a person with the company that makes proofers for Jet's) that Jet's does use its proofers for holding purposes.

Peter
Title: Re: Jets pizza
Post by: Pete-zza on April 10, 2011, 02:13:54 PM
After analyzing the information provided recently by jets147, I have concluded that that information conforms to the ingredients list as provided at page 35 of the document at http://www.northville.k12.mi.us/district/foodservice/pdfs/MSIngred.pdf. The ingredients list in that document shows the inclusion of oil, so presumably that is the portion of the total oil that actually ends up in the finished crust (or it may be oil that is used to coat dough balls), with the rest being the oil that is added to the pans before the dough is formed into skins in the pans. I was able to come up with a dough formulation and to assess it in relation to the methods shown in the Jet's video at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5lxLBp4-8dE. As it turns out, it appears that I originally guessed correctly on the hydration and the amount of ADY after first seeing the video. I suspected (correctly) that dough hydration would be less of an issue if the dough is pressed into pans, or even put through a commercial roller/sheeter (with any necessary bench flour). I would not have had any idea as to the amount of sugar and salt without having sampled a real Jet's pizza crust.

A few pieces of the puzzle remain. One is the type of flour. I believe that the flour is bleached but not bromated. That means that the flour can be just about anything, including all-purpose flour, bread flour or high-gluten flour. I would prefer that no insider reveal that information to the forum. Also, I have not yet had a chance to study the Jet's Nutrition information in detail to see if that will reveal anything with respect to the type of flour used.

The more significant missing piece of the puzzle is the thickness factor. The value of the thickness factor would allow one to use the expanded dough calculating tool at http://www.pizzamaking.com/expanded_calculator.html to come up with a dough weight for any size pan. What complicates the exercise is the fact that the three pans used by Jet's to make its pizzas are sloping-sided rather than straight-sided. I did some quick research on how pan producers who manufacture square and rectangular Sicilian/Sicilian-style pans size those pans and it appears that the dimensions they use are the top dimensions. For example, I have an 8" x 12" PSTK sloping-sided pan from PizzaTools(http://www.pizzatools.com/Square_Sicilian_Pans/30879/subgrouping.htm). It is quoted as an 8" x 12" pan. However, the bottom dimensions appear to be about 11" x 7" (or maybe slightly larger). A further complication is that I was unable to find a manufacturer who makes the 13Ē x 15Ē (large), and 15Ē x 18Ē (extra large) pans used by Jet's. PizzaTools makes a 10" x 10" pan, which Jet's calls "small", and P.A. Products (http://www.paprod.com/pans.html) offers sloping-sided blue steel pans in the sizes 8" x 10", 10" x 14" and 12" x 17". Owners of the latter pans would have to have an accurate thickness factor in order to improve their chances of coming up with a viable Jet's clone dough and pizza.

I was hoping and expecting that member boboo (Bob) would have helped advance the clone project by providing information on real Jet's pizzas, including finished pizza weights and dimensions. After all, he was the member who was most motivated by the desire to replicate a Jet's dough and pizza. In fact, I saw that he also went over to the PMQ Think Tank in search of help (see http://thinktank.pmq.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=9214&p=66323&hilit=#p66323). But, alas, Bob has been missing in action on the forum since just before last Xmas, not long after I had developed a plan of attack for him to execute.

Peter

EDIT (1/25/16): For the list of pizza ingredients at the Northville schools, see EDIT 9 at Reply 26 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=8247.msg118161#msg118161 (http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=8247.msg118161#msg118161); the pan sizes noted above with respect to Jet's appear to be incorrect. For an update on pan sizes, see EDIT 6 in Reply 26 referenced above.
Title: Re: Jets pizza
Post by: PizzaHog on April 20, 2011, 10:36:02 AM
This took about forever but I finally found time to pick up a Jet's and take some measurements as promised long ago.
I picked up a small square with peperoni only, uncut.
Dimensions:
Crust thickness at edge varied from 1 to 1 1/4 inches.
Width at bottom 6 3/4 inches.
Width at top 6 7/8 inches
Length at bottom 8 3/4 inches.
Length at top 8 7/8 inches.
Crust thickness interior to the edge varied and was as low a 1/2 inch, showing compression of the dough under the weight of the toppings common on the Detroit style.
Weight of the pie, less the peperoni 685 grams, 715 grams with.
The Jets I visited free hands the toppings and over the years I have noted quite a variance.  This pie was heavily topped compared to the average.  There were as many peperoni slices on this small (20) as I have sometimes seen on a large.  The slices are 1 1/2 inch.  This pie was also cheese and sauce heavy.
And what did I see as I walked in?  One of the pizza assemblers opening up a case of Grande shredded low moisture part skim Mozz.

   
Title: Re: Jets pizza
Post by: Pete-zza on April 20, 2011, 01:02:34 PM
Hog,

Thank you for helping out on this project. However, it does deal us a setback--at least for now. Some time ago, I was told (by a Jet's employee over the phone) that the "small" Jet's pan was 10" x 10". The dimensions of the small pizza that you gave do not jibe with a 10" x 10" pan. The Jet's pan that was used to make your pizza must have been a rectangular pan, not a square pan, and with a smaller overall footprint. It's possible that the Jet's you went to is using an 8" x 10" pan (top dimensions) for its small square pizzas. You might recall from media reports a while back that there was a shortage of the steel pans and member jet147 mentioned recently that there was some kind of problem with the Jet's pans and the FDA. The 8" x 10" size pan, if correct, is available from P.A. Products (http://www.paprod.com/pans.html) and also from Northern Pizza Equipment (http://yhst-14911471596624.stores.yahoo.net/8x10blstpan.html), both of which are located in Michigan. If the actual size pan is 8" x 10", I don't know what that does to the Jet's nutrition data, especially if different Jet's locations are using different pan sizes. It is now also unclear as to whether the pans now being used to make the large and extra large Jet's square pizzas have been replaced by other pan sizes.

Nonetheless, the information you provided is helpful. I plan to study the dimensional data you posted to see if I can divine anything useful from it. I will also be looking at the Jet's nutrition data to see if that fits with the information you provided.

To avoid confusing our members on the pan size issue, I deleted my last post that was devoted to that subject.

Peter

EDIT (1/26/16): For an update on the pan sizes for the Jet's square pizzas, and the availability of those pans, or the lack thereof, see EDITS 6 and 8 of Reply 26 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=8247.msg118161#msg118161 (http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=8247.msg118161#msg118161).

Title: Re: Jets pizza
Post by: Pete-zza on April 20, 2011, 01:09:08 PM
And what did I see as I walked in?  One of the pizza assemblers opening up a case of Grande shredded low moisture part skim Mozz.

Hog,

I forgot to ask in my last post. Are you sure that the Grande mozzarella cheese was already shredded? I had read reports that the mozzarella cheese in some Jet's locations is shredded in-store from blocks. I believe that the specs are the same for the Grande block and shredded low-moisture part-skim mozzarella cheeses, and that the shredded form does not contain any ingredients to prevent clumping.

Peter
Title: Re: Jets pizza
Post by: PizzaHog on April 20, 2011, 08:02:47 PM
Hey Peter
My recollection is that Jets smalls have always been rectangular.  This last one did appear small to me when I opened the box though!  I just called the same Jets and asked how big their small was.  6 slices (I'm positive they used to be eight).  How many inches?  Approx 10x7.  Now I am wondering if I mismeasured the length or if they are making them smaller.  I was so engrossed with the cheese I paid no attention to their pans to notice anything different.  But unless they recently changed as you mention, at least at the location I am most familiar with, the pans are not the PA Products style steelbaker and I have.  No exposed wire corners and they appear to be heavier and thicker.  Could be another pan in their line though for sure.  I could hardly believe it when I noticed the box of Grande being carried out, opened, and bags of shredded pulled out, no doubt about it.
Still have a quarter of this pie so rechecked and width measurment is correct.  I will pick up another one in the near future and recheck everything just to be sure, and see if the pans look to be newish or diff.  The pan and size thing really has me thinking...
Title: Re: Jets pizza
Post by: Pete-zza on April 20, 2011, 09:19:34 PM
Hog,

Here is a photo of the small Jet's square pepperoni pizza: http://jetspizza.com/menu/item/23. I believe that you are right that the pizza is actually rectangular. Your photos make that clear.

I also took the weight data that you provided and checked it against the Jet's nutrition data at http://jetspizza.com/nutrition/category/13. According to that data, a small square cheese pizza, baked, weighs 6 x 114 grams = 684 grams. Your weight, less the pepperoni, was 685 grams. So, you were right on the money. A small square pepperoni and cheese pizza, baked, weighs 6 x 116 grams = 696 grams. Your weight was 715 grams. However, you noted that you got more pepperoni slices than normal. Like you, I counted 20 slices whereas the photo referenced above shows about 15 slices. You also noted that they were heavy on the sauce. So, both of those factors could have accounted for your slightly overweight pizza.

With respect to the cheese and sauce for your small Jet's square pizza, can you venture an estimate of their respective weights?

Peter
Title: Re: Jets pizza
Post by: PizzaHog on April 21, 2011, 08:59:32 PM
Hog,

With respect to the cheese and sauce for your small Jet's square pizza, can you venture an estimate of their respective weights?

Peter

Peter,
Can only guess maybe 6-7 oz of cheese, 3 oz sauce.  Will attempt more detailed info on the next one.
Hog
Title: Re: Jets pizza
Post by: gschwim on April 24, 2011, 08:19:02 PM
Here in NYC, I haven't been able to find a reliable source of cheese made from milk from cows that lie on mattresses and listen to music.  So I tried buying my usual cheese and after putting it in the fridge, lying on a mattress and listening to music myself.

Works for me!

Gene
Title: Re: Jets pizza
Post by: Pete-zza on April 28, 2011, 11:13:01 AM
As I was conducting further research on the Jet's pizzas recently, I came across a website of a company called Pizzapanlids, at http://www.pizzapanlids.com/, where I learned for the first time that Jet's, at least in some of its stores, uses pan lids for its pans. I was especially intrigued by the perceived benefits of using the lids, including the following:

2.Better for your dough
   a.Faster proofing time
   b.Rises higher
   c.Results in fluffier crust
   d.Lasts longer in the cooler


It strikes me as quite possible that, given that Jet's does not use bromated flours (according to Jet's corporate office), the lids might help produce a better rise and a more open and airy finished crust. The lids also prevent "crud" from the bottoms of pans that are stacked from falling into the dough of lower pans in the stack.

I also wondered whether one, including interested members of our forum, could purchase lids from Pizzapanlids. To find out, I called Damon at Pizzapanlids and had a nice discussion with him on his company's products. As it turns out, his company works through distributors and, as a result, does not sell directly to individuals. However, as I noted yesterday at Reply 1 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,13687.msg137053.html#new, a Michigan company by the name of Northern Pizza Equipment, at http://www.northernpizzaequipment.com/ (http://www.northernpizzaequipment.com/), offers the lids from Pizzapanlids. The blue steel pans for which the lids were designed can also be purchased from Northern.

Perhaps the most important information that I got from Damon is on the sizes of the pans used by Jet's. Obviously, as a supplier to Jet's, Pizzapanlids would know the Jet's pan sizes. As it turns out, the sizes I was previously given (by a Jet's store manager), and which I originally reported at Reply 26 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,8247.msg118161.html#msg118161, were incorrect. It's possible, I suppose, that different Jet's stores are using different pan sizes, with or without lids, or maybe the dimensions I was given were incorrectly measured, but the correct pan sizes for the Jet's pans are 8" x 10", 10" x 14" and 12" x 17", all as noted at the Northern website. As mentioned at Reply 1 referenced above, I was also told that Jet's uses the blue steel pans sold by Northern (which procures them from P.A. Products, also a Michigan company, at http://www.paprod.com/pans.html).

I have edited Reply 26 to reflect the new pan size information.

Peter

Note: It appears that Pizzapanlids no longer exists as a company. Also, it appears that Northern does not carry all lid sizes (see, for example, http://www.northernpizzaequipment.com/rectangular-pans-lids.html).

Title: Re: Jets pizza
Post by: Pete-zza on April 29, 2011, 10:57:20 AM
For more on the subject of the manufacturer of the blue steel pans used by Jet's and others who sell the Detroit square pan pizzas, as well as sources of those pans for our members, see the thread at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,13687.msg137011.html#msg137011.

Peter
Title: Re: Jets pizza
Post by: Pete-zza on May 01, 2011, 08:40:51 AM
Hog,

I picked up a small square with peperoni only, uncut.
Dimensions:
Crust thickness at edge varied from 1 to 1 1/4 inches.
Width at bottom 6 3/4 inches.
Width at top 6 7/8 inches
Length at bottom 8 3/4 inches.
Length at top 8 7/8 inches.
Crust thickness interior to the edge varied and was as low a 1/2 inch, showing compression of the dough under the weight of the toppings common on the Detroit style.
Weight of the pie, less the peperoni 685 grams, 715 grams with.
The Jets I visited free hands the toppings and over the years I have noted quite a variance.  This pie was heavily topped compared to the average.  There were as many peperoni slices on this small (20) as I have sometimes seen on a large.  The slices are 1 1/2 inch.  This pie was also cheese and sauce heavy.

I believe that your dimensions as given above may be correct. I happened to be at the website of Cloverleaf's, also a well known Detroit-style pizza operator, and noticed that at http://www.cloverleafonline.com/mailorder.php they are selling mail-order pizzas. You will note the statement that their mail-order pizzas are 7" x 9". No doubt they are using an 8" x 10" sloping-sided pan like the others. Remember, that the 8" x 10" dimensions are taken across the top of the pan. So, I think your numbers may be right for an 8" x 10" pan.

I was looking at the Jet's nutrition data for a small square pepperoni pizza and the amount of pepperoni seems quite small. Is Jet's using a very thin sliced pepperoni by any chance? And is there a lot of oiling off of the pepperoni that you can tell? The photos you posted don't seem to show much oiling off. It may also be that Jet's uses less cheese and/or sauce for a small square pepperoni pizza than for a cheese pizza.

Peter

EDIT (1/27/16): For the Wayback Machine version of the above inoperative link, see http://web.archive.org/web/20110223091428/http://www.cloverleafonline.com/mailorder.php (http://web.archive.org/web/20110223091428/http://www.cloverleafonline.com/mailorder.php).
Title: Re: Jets pizza
Post by: PizzaHog on May 01, 2011, 11:51:05 AM
Quote
I was looking at the Jet's nutrition data for a small square pepperoni pizza and the amount of pepperoni seems quite small. Is Jet's using a very thin sliced pepperoni by any chance? And is there a lot of oiling off of the pepperoni that you can tell?
Peter
IMHO Jet's pepperoni slices would qualify as very thin, and not a lot of oiling off if memory serves.  I will take note on these on the next one.  Glad you figured out the size issue, I thought I measured correctly, and appreciate all the research on the black steel pans.
Hog
Title: Re: Jets pizza
Post by: Pete-zza on May 01, 2011, 12:48:41 PM
IMHO Jet's pepperoni slices would qualify as very thin, and not a lot of oiling off if memory serves.  I will take note on these on the next one.
Hog,

Thanks for the added information and your continuing interest and participation in this project.

What puzzles me most about the pepperoni used on Jet's pizzas is that when I look at the Jet's nutrition information at http://jetspizza.com/nutrition/category/13 and compare the nutrition data for a small square Jet's cheese pizza with a small Jet's square pepperoni pizza, the difference in weights is only 6 x 2 = 12 grams, or 0.42 ounces. Since Jet's charges extra for the pepperoni slices, I would think that they would just make a regular cheese pizza and add the pepperoni slices to it, rather than stiffing the customer by using less cheese. I did a check of three different brands of pepperoni slices in my freezer and one of them, Wilson, has a similar ingredients list for the pepperoni slices (it's almost exact, but for one ingredient). 12 grams worth of pepperoni for that brand comes to 6 slices. That is why I wondered whether possibly Jet's uses very thin pepperoni slices. That would not be unusual, because I know that companies that make pepperoni slices often offer their products in different thicknesses. Twenty slices of the Wilson brand would come to 40 grams, or 1.41 ounces; fifteen slices (based on a Jet's photo) comes to 30 grams, or 1.08 ounces. The numbers aren't much different when using the data for the other two brands of pepperoni in my freezer (Hormel and Armour).

For the record, a while back I did a Google search using the exact string of terms used to describe the Jet's pepperoni in the ingredients listing given in the Northville public school document referenced earlier in this thread. I got several hits showing that the ingredients list is a fairly garden variety one--one that is used by many makers of pizza products.

As an interesting sidenote, it looks like some of the other metro Detroit pizza operators specializing in the square Detroit-style pizza want a bigger piece of the pie. For example, I read that Cloverleaf, in addition to widening its geographical net by selling its pizzas online, wants to open 30 locations by 2018 (http://www.restaurantnews.com/cloverleaf-pizza-turns-heads-around-the-world/) and Shield's, which sold out a while back to a couple of former owners, changed its legal name to Shield's Franchise Restaurants, L.L.C. and has expansion in mind also (http://www.shieldspizza.com/franchise.html). By contrast, Jet's is now the 17th largest pizza operation in the country, with over 200 locations (11 are company owned) and annual sales of around $163,000,000. Buddy's has nine locations. Hmmm. The plot thickens.

Peter
Title: Re: Jets pizza
Post by: PizzaHog on May 01, 2011, 02:25:30 PM
Peter
Wow, your research and info is beyond complete as usual.  The Cloverleaf expansion, per the links found following your link, seems to involve only the carry out locations, not the original.  I once inquired at a carry out what the relationship was to the original but the answer was vague and left me with the impression it was like a semi franchise.  The two carry outs are independently owned, and by the same guys, but that was about all I could confirm.  Maybe these guys will spread the Detroit style around the world.  I wish them luck as anything positive about Detroit is always welcome and they do put out a consistent and tasty pie, at least the times I tried it.  Plus, they are still a bit old school with good ole deck ovens.
Shield's I am not so sure about.  They opened a location near my house, I tried it and was most disappointed, then they went out of business there.  I'm pretty sure Shield's once had more locations than today so who knows what is up with them.
Re Jet's pepperoni, my best guess here is simply that they use very thin slices and not many of them vs using less cheese or sauce to explain the minor increase in weight.  I was surprised at 20 slices on a small, and would also be surprised at 15!  This is just my recollection over the years and may not reflect what they might be doing now, or variances on hand topped pies.  We will see what the next one looks like...
Hog 
Title: Re: Jets pizza
Post by: norma427 on August 07, 2011, 08:28:43 AM
Peter,

I wanted to ask you a few questions about making a Jetís square pizza at market on Tuesday.  Since I purchased a 12Ē square blackbuster steel pan,  http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,10141.msg145736.html#msg145736  I have been wanting to try it out a Jetís pizza. My square pan isnít a sloping pan. I think I have read though the Jetís thread and any links, but wonder about using oil in the formula.  I read in your post at Reply 26 http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,8247.msg118161.html#msg118161
 that Jetís does use oil in the formula.  In the post by jets147  at Reply 65 http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,8247.msg134105.html#msg134105
 he says no oil is used in the dough for a Jetís pizza.  You then replied at post 68 http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,8247.msg134510.html#msg134510
You concluded no oil was used in Jetís dough, and the oil comes from oiling the pan. I didnít see any formula you posted with what TF you thought Jetís uses.  Do you think I should try the same formula I tried at Reply 60 http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,8247.msg132975.html#msg132975
and omit the oil, and keep the same TF?  I am able to purchase shredded Grande cheese by the pound, from a local pizza operator.

Norma
Title: Re: Jets pizza
Post by: Pete-zza on August 07, 2011, 10:09:00 AM
Norma,

It's been a while since I last worked on this project, so my mind is a bit fuzzy on the details.

With respect to the oil, I think the explanation is that there is no oil in the dough but that there is oil in the baked crust because of the oil that is put in the pan and is absorbed by the crust. I believe that is why oil was listed in the ingredients list that I found through my searches.

I am not sure how the dough formulation at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,8247.msg132975.html#msg132975 will work but I do not believe that it is the Jet's dough formulation as best I understand it from my research to date. For example, I believe the thickness factor is too low. Also, the Jet's thickness factor would be with respect to a sloping-sided pan of a specific material and design.

Peter
Title: Re: Jets pizza
Post by: norma427 on August 07, 2011, 11:28:58 AM
Norma,

It's been a while since I last worked on this project, so my mind is a bit fuzzy on the details.

With respect to the oil, I think the explanation is that there is no oil in the dough but that there is oil in the baked crust because of the oil that is put in the pan and is absorbed by the crust. I believe that is why oil was listed in the ingredients list that I found through my searches.

I am not sure how the dough formulation at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,8247.msg132975.html#msg132975 will work but I do not believe that it is the Jet's dough formulation as best I understand it from my research to date. For example, I believe the thickness factor is too low. Also, the Jet's thickness factor would be with respect to a sloping-sided pan of a specific material and design.

Peter

Peter,

Thanks for your explanations.  Do you have a TF in mind for me to try, to get closer to a Jetís pizza, and also what TF to use since I donít have a sloping pan? Also I read the flour isnít bromated in Jetís dough.  Do you also have a flour in mind for me to experiment with?

Norma
Title: Re: Jets pizza
Post by: Pete-zza on August 07, 2011, 12:43:18 PM
Do you have a TF in mind for me to try, to get closer to a Jetís pizza, and also what TF to use since I donít have a sloping pan? Also I read the flour isnít bromated in Jetís dough.  Do you also have a flour in mind for me to experiment with?

Norma,

I don't yet have enough information to figure out the actual thickness factor. I was also waiting for more weight information, etc., for a finished Jet's pan pizza to see if there are any clues on that score. When I have a chance, I will look at the Jet's nutrition information to see if it is of any help in coming up with a good thickness factor to use. For now, you might try a value greater than 0.12, which I believe is what Hog uses for his Buddy's clone.

With respect to the flour to try, I think I would go with an unbromated flour with a protein content of around 12.5-13%. That is just a guess since Jet's uses a flour that is prepared just for them. Unfortunately, there is no easy way to determine what kind of flour is used or its protein content from just the nutrition information. A typical pizza has multiple sources of protein. I have read conflicting information on whether the Jet's flour is bleached or not. I don't think it will really matter whether the flour is bleached or not.

Peter
Title: Re: Jets pizza
Post by: norma427 on August 07, 2011, 05:50:32 PM
Norma,

I don't yet have enough information to figure out the actual thickness factor. I was also waiting for more weight information, etc., for a finished Jet's pan pizza to see if there are any clues on that score. When I have a chance, I will look at the Jet's nutrition information to see if it is of any help in coming up with a good thickness factor to use. For now, you might try a value greater than 0.12, which I believe is what Hog uses for his Buddy's clone.

With respect to the flour to try, I think I would go with an unbromated flour with a protein content of around 12.5-13%. That is just a guess since Jet's uses a flour that is prepared just for them. Unfortunately, there is no easy way to determine what kind of flour is used or its protein content from just the nutrition information. A typical pizza has multiple sources of protein. I have read conflicting information on whether the Jet's flour is bleached or not. I don't think it will really matter whether the flour is bleached or not.

Peter


Peter,

I can understand you donít have enough information to figure out the actual TF.  Thanks for the advise for the protein of the flour to try.  I will give the Jetís pizza another try when I find time.  You donít have to look up the nutrition information.

Norma
Title: Re: Jets pizza
Post by: Jet_deck on August 10, 2011, 10:41:06 PM
Sorry if this has already been discussed.  The Jet's Pizza AT&T commercials...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rtIQygU5GBU (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rtIQygU5GBU)


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qU4eqxTkIhA (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qU4eqxTkIhA)


Title: Re: Jets pizza
Post by: Pete-zza on August 11, 2011, 09:43:36 AM
Gene,

Thank you for posting the links to the videos. One of the interesting observations is that certain of the ingredients appear to be weighed, including what appears to be diced cheese, as shown at 0:28 in the first video.

Peter
Title: Re: Jets pizza
Post by: norma427 on August 24, 2011, 07:51:56 PM
I tried another experimental Jetís pizza.  I modified the last formula I posted at Reply 60 http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,8247.msg132975.html#msg132975
by increasing the TF to 0.15 and decreasing the salt amount to 1.75%., since 1.75% is usually the normal amount of salt I use in my pizza doughs. I also omitted the corn oil. The rest of the formula was kept the same.  I used Superlative flour as the flour.

I mixed the dough in my Kitchen Aid mixer, and balled and cold fermented for a little over a day.  The  dough ball was left to warm-up for about an hour.  The dough ball then was pressed some on my marble slab, then open a little to fit in my 12Ēx12Ē square steel pan.  I then put aluminum foil over the steel pan, and left the dough proof for about a hour.  The pan was oiled with 1 tablespoon and 1 teaspoon of corn oil.  I used a paper towel to spread the corn oil on the pan, so there was some of the corn oil was on the paper towel.  

Steve and I weighed the sauce, Grande cheese, and pepperoni that went on for the dressings.  The sauce weighed 3.4 oz, the Grande cheese weighed 7.5 oz., and the 16 slices of pepperoni, which weighed 1.30 oz.  The pizza was baked at about 492 degrees F, on the deck for about 9 minutes 11 seconds.  

Steve and I never tasted a real Jetís pizza, so we have no idea if this attempt did taste anywhere near a Jetís pizza.  I also donít have a conveyor oven like Jetís uses, so I know my pizza would be different than Jetís that does use a conveyor oven.

Scan of formula I used, and pictures of the process and pizza.  I might try Occident flour as the flour in the same formula next week.

Norma
Title: Re: Jets pizza
Post by: norma427 on August 24, 2011, 08:03:44 PM
Norma
Title: Re: Jets pizza
Post by: norma427 on August 24, 2011, 08:05:19 PM
Norma
Title: Re: Jets pizza
Post by: norma427 on August 24, 2011, 08:07:20 PM
Norma
Title: Re: Jets pizza
Post by: norma427 on August 31, 2011, 10:31:49 AM
I made another Jetís attempt yesterday at market.  For this attempt, I upped the hydration to 65% based on Peterís post at Reply 93 http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,14928.msg151230.html#msg151230  saying he guessed the hydration might be about 65% for Jetís dough.  I also changed the flour in the dough I made to the Occident flour.  I wanted to see how a lower protein flour would affect the crumb and if a 65% hydration dough could be made without becoming sticky with the Occident flour.  I mixed the dough in my Kitchen Aid mixer about the same way that is show in the Jetís video.  I mixed until the dough had picked up off the sides of the mixer and was almost picking off of the bottom of the mixing bowl. The dough was a little sticky when I took it out of the mixing bowl.  I then put it into a plastic container with the lid on, for about 20 minutes.  I didnít need any addition flour to make the dough less sticky.  The balling of the dough made the dough nice.  I did oil the dough ball. 

The pizza was made about a day and a half after I had mixed the dough.  There are pictures of the top of the dough, first is when I balled the dough, and a bottom picture of the dough after it was taken out of the container at market.  The bottom of the dough ball looked sticky, but I lightly floured it and it was fine.  The dough was really soft.  I just gently pushed the dough in the steel pan that had been oiled with 1 tablespoon and 1 teaspoon of corn oil.  The dough was then covered and left to proof at room temperature for about an hour.

I only used sauce and cheese to dress this pizza, because I was running out of pepperoni.  The Jetís attempt did turn out very good, but the bottom crust didnít brown as I would have liked it to.  The crumb was very moist and soft and really had a good flavor.  Steve, Randy, Jeff, Mark, Lorie and I all enjoyed the Jetís attempt.  There werenít any leftover slices for customers to taste.  I know this isnít like a real Jetís pizza, or donít think so, because the bottom crust isnít crispy enough, but found it quite different than other pizzas I have made.  I donít know if the Occident flour and the higher hydration had anything to do with that or not, but I am finding out I do like Occident flour for making pizzas.

Steve and I had an interesting visitor yesterday at market, when we were getting ready to make this pizzas and others.  He was from San Antonio, Texas and has traveled all over the world eating pizzas.  He talked about all the different kinds of pizzas he has eaten.  He is also a member of the Philharmonic Orchestra and plays bass.  He has played with many different famous people.  He showed Steve and me pictures on his cell phone.  Since Steve also plays different instruments and is part Sicilian, he really got to liking Steve and even called some of his friends on his cell phone and got Steve to talk to them.  He sure was an interesting character, but he also was sure a talker.  We found out many interesting things about San Antonio, Texas from our visitor, and a lot of other information.

Norma
Title: Re: Jets pizza
Post by: norma427 on August 31, 2011, 10:36:09 AM
Norma
Title: Re: Jets pizza
Post by: norma427 on August 31, 2011, 10:37:41 AM
Norma
Title: Re: Jets pizza
Post by: norma427 on August 31, 2011, 10:39:19 AM
Norma
Title: Re: Jets pizza
Post by: norma427 on August 31, 2011, 10:39:54 AM
Norma
Title: Re: Jets pizza
Post by: Pete-zza on August 31, 2011, 12:57:16 PM
Norma,

The Occident flour has a protein content of only 12.4% so that might help explain the slight stickiness in the dough at a hydration value of 65%. You might have to go to a higher protein flour to get rid of the stickiness or reduce the hydration of your recent dough formulation by a percent or two. As for the bottom crust, you may have to use considerably more corn oil in the pan to get the crust to "fry". If that doesn't do the trick, then you might consider getting the same type of pan that Jet's uses, along with a companion lid.

Peter
Title: Re: Jets pizza
Post by: norma427 on August 31, 2011, 03:47:14 PM
Norma,

The Occident flour has a protein content of only 12.4% so that might help explain the slight stickiness in the dough at a hydration value of 65%. You might have to go to a higher protein flour to get rid of the stickiness or reduce the hydration of your recent dough formulation by a percent or two. As for the bottom crust, you may have to use considerably more corn oil in the pan to get the crust to "fry". If that doesn't do the trick, then you might consider getting the same type of pan that Jet's uses, along with a companion lid.

Peter

Peter,

Thanks for posting what I can try.  I will add more corn oil to the pan next week to see if the bottom crust will fry.  My pans might not be seasoned enough yet, since I recently purchased them.  If all else fails, I will see about purchasing a pan like Jetís uses, along with a companion lid. I can see using a conveyor oven could also make a difference in how the bottom crust browns.  I will have to read over the Buddyís and Shields threads again and see how they get their bottom crusts to brown.

I think I can speak for the other taste testers, that we all really liked how this attempt tasted.  It was almost like eating a cloud, but I want to be able to get the bottom crunch, just to see how it tastes.

Norma
Title: Re: Jets pizza
Post by: Trinity on September 01, 2011, 06:14:32 AM
Norma

Oh My God, That looks so good!!!! :chef:
Title: Re: Jets pizza
Post by: norma427 on September 01, 2011, 07:31:56 AM
Oh My God, That looks so good!!!! :chef:

Trinity,

Thanks for your compliment!  :)  The crumb and taste of the pizza was really good.

Norma
Title: Re: Jets pizza
Post by: TXCraig1 on September 25, 2011, 02:48:06 PM
Has anyone seen this commercial?  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qU4eqxTkIhA

It's an AT&T commercial that features Jet's Pizza. In the commercial, you see some of the insides of their operations. They stretch out a dough ball and at 0:06, it looks like the skin is fully opened and in a pan and it is being scored with a knife in many long slashes as the pan is turned.

I've never seen anything like this. Docking on steroids? or something else?

I didn't find any mention of this in here with a search, but I have not been following this thread, so please forgive me if it has been covered.

CL
Title: Re: Jets pizza
Post by: shuboyje on September 25, 2011, 03:52:54 PM
That is a thin round pizza of some sort.  I'd guess one of their specialty pies or maybe even a dessert pie.  The jet's right around the corner from me has an open kitchen, and I've never seen them do that, and they certainly don't on the detroit style pizza that seems to be the object of most posts.  It's darn odd for pizza, although it is common in bread.
Title: Re: Jets pizza
Post by: Tommy Nott on October 20, 2011, 08:39:47 PM
Hi everybody. It is this thread that brought me here. Jets pizza is pretty much the only pizza I will eat if given the choice. Buddy's is okay, Pizza Hut is okay... "Happy's" is atrocious... Jets just has that "certain something" that nobody else has. The texture, the taste - perfection!
I've been eating it since I was a little boy living less than a mile from the original "Jets Party Store" at 14 Mile & Ryan. Back then they sold it by the slice at the "back counter" of the party store. It was awesome. Watching them go from that single party store selling pizza by the slice to a chain the size and popularity of Jet's today is awesome - a true American example of greatness rewarded with success.

I'm posting in here because I am planning on making a go of this - I eat Jets for dinner almost every Saturday night (Small Square Pizza, extra cheese, with Mushrooms and Black Olives, plus a small order of Jet Bread). I'd like to see how close I can get to replicating it.

My first sticking point:  In the post earlier from the Jets manager, he said the dry ingredients mix for mixing with the 16 quarts of water was "1 cup sugar, 1 cup salt, 1 cup yeast" - and then he says "add your flour" - but he doesn't specify how much flour. Can we get a more clear measurement/ratio of these dry ingredients? Any ideas?

Regards,

Tommy Nott
Title: Re: Jets pizza
Post by: Pete-zza on October 21, 2011, 10:52:23 AM
Tommy,

There are still a lot of loose ends in this project. Also, we have reached somewhat a stalemate for lack of information needed to do the job properly. I usually take this to mean that people really aren't interested, or least not interested enough to pitch in to help fill in the missing blanks. Some people will offer to do things and profess their love for Jet's pizza but do not deliver.

As an example of what I have encountered in this project, I have not been able to square what I know about the Jet's dough with the Jet's Nutrition Facts. It may be because some Jet's stores are using pan sizes that are different from what Jet's was using before there was a problem--now apparently resolved--with sourcing the pans. If different pans are being used in some Jet's stores, that will mean different quantities of cheese and sauce and different nutrition facts. As you may have noted, I was given pan information initially by a Jet's store manager in Texas that was different than what I later learned. It is quite common for employees of pizza places to dispense information that turns out to be wrong or incomplete. As a result, I tend to take what is told to me with a grain of salt and try to find the answers, or at least try to confirm what is told to me, through things like Nutrition Facts and public documents that I am able to uncover through searches.

For the time being, you might try Norma's stab at the Jet's clone. If you do not have the same pan size you should be able to use the expanded dough calculating tool at http://www.pizzamaking.com/expanded_calculator.html to modify Norma's dough formulation for your particular pan size.

Peter
Title: Re: Jets pizza
Post by: Tommy Nott on October 23, 2011, 03:01:18 PM
Well, for what it's worth, regarding pan size:

To my memory, Jets "square pizza" has always been rectangular, for as long as I remember. We regularly get them for family parties/etc.. and as I said, I often get a small one on Sat night (although, ironically, last night I did not LOL). I don't remember them ever being an actual "square", even though - admittedly - we do call it "square pizza". so I tend to think that your 8" x 10" is probably correct for the small.

At this point - is there anything I can do to help further the project. What "eyewitness" info do you need? I can walk in pretty much anytime, there are 3 locations within 3 miles of my house (one of those being 'the original party store location') and in fact next Sat I'm planning on getting one anyways.

Let me know.

Thanks,

-TommyNott
Title: Re: Jets pizza
Post by: norma427 on October 24, 2011, 09:41:40 PM
Steve and I were ready for another attempt at a Jetís pizza tomorrow, so I used the formula I posted at Reply 94 http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,8247.msg151463.html#msg151463
and the only thing I changed was I used Better for Bread flour, as the formula flour.  At least the dough felt nice after it was mixed.

Norma
Title: Re: Jets pizza
Post by: Pete-zza on October 25, 2011, 04:33:23 PM
To my memory, Jets "square pizza" has always been rectangular, for as long as I remember. We regularly get them for family parties/etc.. and as I said, I often get a small one on Sat night (although, ironically, last night I did not LOL). I don't remember them ever being an actual "square", even though - admittedly - we do call it "square pizza". so I tend to think that your 8" x 10" is probably correct for the small.

At this point - is there anything I can do to help further the project. What "eyewitness" info do you need? I can walk in pretty much anytime, there are 3 locations within 3 miles of my house (one of those being 'the original party store location') and in fact next Sat I'm planning on getting one anyways.

Tommy,

Thank you for your offer to help.

I will accept whatever information you can provide. I believe that you are correct that the small square Jet's pizza is made in an 8" x !0" pan.

The kind of information that would be most useful is the dimensions and weight of a basic small square pan pizza from Jet's and also any information on the amount of sauce and cheese used. The dimensions would be the dimensions of the top and bottom surfaces of the pizza and its depth (measured on either on a slant or vertically), and the weight would be the weight of the baked pizza. The easiest pizza to analyze from a reverse engineering and cloning standpoint is a plain cheese pizza, simply because it has the fewest ingredients. Next would be a pepperoni pizza provided that the number of pepperoni slices are counted. Measuring the diameter of a typical pepperoni slice would also be helpful. To facilitate the measurements, I usually advise that the pizza purchased be uncut.

I would prefer that the weight of the pizza be taken as soon after purchase as possible although if you live near the Jet's store that should be OK since the loss in weight of a just baked pizza is quite small over a short travel distance. For reasons of accuracy, I prefer that the weight be in grams if possible.

Getting an idea as to the amount of sauce and cheese used on a given pizza is one of the hardest parts of the exercise. I typically watch the utensils used to measure out pizza sauce, like Spoodle or similar portioning control devices, and I note the color of the handle if such a device is used since many such devices are color coded as to the bowl volume. Asking a worker how much sauce and cheese is used on the pizza is also a good idea (like: "Out of curiosity, how much sauce and cheese do you put on a small square pepperoni cheese pizza?" and "How many pepperoni slices are you supposed to put on a small square pizza?") and you might get an answer if the worker has been properly trained. Or if you are in a position to observe the pizza being assembled, you might use your best estimate as to the amounts of sauce and cheese used.

Whenever I am in a pizza establishment trying to gather information, I pay close attention to what the people are doing and how they make the pizzas. I might even try to time the duration of the bake although workers will often tell you what that time is if asked. I also look at what equipment and other items are on hand, including coolers, mixers, bags of flour, cans of tomatoes, etc. Of course, often these items are not in the view of customers.

Peter
Title: Re: Jets pizza
Post by: norma427 on October 26, 2011, 10:18:27 AM
At least I made the attempt at a Jetís pizza after my MMís attempt, so the Jetís attempt pictures werenít deleted.  Although I used the same formula as I used in my last attempt, and only changed the flour to Better for Bread, my last attempt with Occident flour was better in my opinion.  I used manteca to oil my pan, but guess shouldnít have used that as the oil either.  The taste of the Jetís attempt was good, but still didnít have the crunch on the bottom of the pizza like a Jetís pizza does.

Norma
Title: Re: Jets pizza
Post by: norma427 on October 26, 2011, 10:20:14 AM
Norma
Title: Re: Jets pizza
Post by: norma427 on October 26, 2011, 10:21:23 AM
Norma
Title: Re: Jets pizza
Post by: norma427 on October 26, 2011, 10:22:39 AM
Norma
Title: Re: Jets pizza
Post by: norma427 on October 26, 2011, 10:23:53 AM
Norma
Title: Re: Jets pizza
Post by: norma427 on October 26, 2011, 10:25:25 AM
Norma
Title: Re: Jets pizza
Post by: norma427 on October 26, 2011, 10:26:14 AM
Norma
Title: Re: Jets pizza
Post by: Tommy Nott on October 26, 2011, 12:48:48 PM
Okay then, my mission for this Saturday is clear.

I will order one small Jets pizza, and hang around in-store while they make it and ask a few questions, like:

1.) How much sauce
2.) How much cheese

I will ask them to NOT cut it, and will take it home immediately (I live less than 2 miles away), and weigh it on our kitchen scale.

I will measure across the top both ways, and then also along the bottom both ways.  I can then cut into it and measure the depth at whatever point you want... (the middle?)

I'm also willing to scrape off the cheese and sauce and get a measure of just the dough, if you like.

Let me know.

Thanks,

-Tommy Nott
Title: Re: Jets pizza
Post by: Pete-zza on October 26, 2011, 01:15:51 PM
Tommy,

You can take a measurement of thickness at the middle. I just want to have a rough idea. An average thickness would also be good.

I am more interested at this point in the amounts of sauce and cheese for a small square pizza (and number of pepperoni slices if a pepperoni pizza is purchased) than the weight of the baked crust. I hate to ask you to remove everything from the pizza to weight the crust only, although you might be able to replace most of the lost sauce and the cheese and reheat the reconstructed pizza before cutting. Hopefully if you are able to get the amounts of sauce and cheese used there won't be any need to desecrate the pizza.

I plan to be out of town soon and through the weekend, so I may not be in a position to react to your findings until early next week.

Peter
Title: Re: Jets pizza
Post by: Tommy Nott on October 26, 2011, 02:28:22 PM
Ok cool, understood. I will look forward to your analysis. :)

Here is what I will be doing:

1.) Will ask for measurement amounts of sauce and cheese from employee.
2.) Will order 1 small "square" cheese pizza. Uncut.
3.) Will take it immediately home and weigh it.
4.) Will measure it across top - both ways.
5.) Will measure it across bottom - both ways.
6.) Will measure it's thickness in the middle, and at 4 "half-way out from middle" points.
7.) IF they have not given me the measurements for sauce and cheese, then I will "desecrate" (lol) and try to get weights of just cheese, and then just dough with everything "scraped off" .. (will be a little hard to weigh the sauce).  No worries here, I can order two pizzas if I cannot bear the loss of this one or don't think I can re-construct lol...  best part here is the wife and children will be out of town, I will be home alone. That way I won't be committed to the insane asylum for doing this, either. :)

I will try to look at equipment/ladles/etc... if I can see, but I know from experience that that stuff is fairly well concealed (by design or otherwise) from the visiting public.

If there is anything else useful I can do, let me know.

Thanks,

-Tommy Nott
Title: Re: Jets pizza
Post by: Pete-zza on October 26, 2011, 03:28:17 PM
Tommy,

It looks like you are all set. It will be almost impossible to weigh the sauce because a fair amount of the water content of the sauce is driven off during baking, leaving only essentially a "skin" of sauce on the dough. When I have done "before" and "after" weighings of pizzas, the losses have been around 7-8%. But that is for a flat pizza, not a pan pizza. My recollection is that the percent loss is less for a pan-type pizza such as a Chicago deep-dish pizza.

Thanks again for contributing to the cause.

Peter
Title: Re: Jets pizza
Post by: Tommy Nott on October 29, 2011, 11:06:30 PM
Okay, here is my first attempt to do "reconnaissance" on a Jet's small cheese pizza. :)

First: the guy who took my order seemed "suspicious" about my inquiring about things, so I decided to hold off on the sauce question.  The conversation went like this:

Me: "Hi, I'm thinking I want a small cheese pizza, but ... when you make it, do you just grab cheese and put it on, or do you measure it and use a specific amount".

Him: "We measure it". (eyes actually narrowed in reaction to this question - sheesh!)

Me: "Oh, how much do you put on?"

Him: "Well, we use whats on the chart."

Me: "Oh you have a chart?" (turning to look and find it)

Him: "You can't see it."

Me: "Oh ... well, on a small cheese pizza how much would that be?"

Him: "It will be the amount on the chart - we follow it pretty closely."

Me: "Oh I don't doubt your ability to put the correct amount on, I'm asking for nutritional reasons - I'm strictly tracking my dairy intake and need to be aware of it."

Him: "Oh. We put 5 ounces on."

Me: "So if I ordered double cheese it would be 10 ounces, then?"

Him: "No...no... believe me, you don't want 10 ounces of cheese, that would be wayyy too much. When people order extra cheese, we just use the regular 5 ounces, and then add some more as a 'topping', we don't actually double the amount".

Me: "Ahhh - so 10 ounces would be way too much?"

Him: "Yeah, definitely."

Me: "Okay, well then I'll take a small square cheese pizza - can I get that uncut?"

Him: "Sure! People actually order it that way all the time."

....I try to watch them make the pizza, but they have their "topping/assembly" area pretty well concealed behind some metal partition/dividers. I did notice, however, that that conveyor oven was set to 475 degrees on the top conveyor, and 432 degrees on the lower conveyor. My pizza went through the top conveyor. I failed to time it, I was too busy looking around for evidence of anything I could use. :(

Next post: my pics. :)



Title: Re: Jets pizza
Post by: Tommy Nott on October 29, 2011, 11:15:47 PM
The pics.

First: the weighing. When I asked my wife to get out our kitchen scale before she left on our trip, I didn't realize what a crappy scale we have LOL. This thing is awful, I don't know if we can really trust these weights - it seems AWFULLY light to me. But if the numbers seem impossible, let me know - and I'll see about getting a better scale for the next attempt. At least we have my measurements too.

First, our scale with nothing on it (included because - well, you'll see: our scale does NOT sit at zero LOL):

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/841/image017ua.jpg/ (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/841/image017ua.jpg/)

As you can see, our scale sits at 1.1 ounces with nothing on it. :/

Not sure how to make photos visible in my post, so we'll have to live with links for now. Sorry guys. Moderator: if you can fix this, please do.
Moving along....


Next, the image of the scale with the pizza on it:

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/252/image019g.jpg/ (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/252/image019g.jpg/)

So with the pizza on it, the weight is 1.6 ounces - exactly 5 ounces heavier.  I have trouble believing that that entire pizza only weighs 5 ounces! It felt like at least a pound to me... thats why I think I need to get a better scale and weight it again. :)  Also - the guy told me that they put 5 ounces of cheese on the thing... maybe the cheese gets lighter with cooking, but for the entire pizza to only weigh as much as the cheese afterwards, well - that just doesn't seem right to me.
So lets move on to what I consider the "better measurements" with tape measure.

First - pizza measured across (short way) - is pretty much exactly 7 inches:

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/641/image020ne.jpg/ (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/641/image020ne.jpg/)

Next - pizza measure longways - is pretty much exactly 9 inches:

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/213/image021t.jpg/ (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/213/image021t.jpg/)

Next - thickness measured from the middle - is about 1.25 inches:

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/228/image022tj.jpg/ (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/228/image022tj.jpg/)

Thickness measurement two - further out towards edge - still about 1.25 inches:

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/189/image023pv.jpg/ (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/189/image023pv.jpg/)

Thickness measurement three - taken near corner on outer edge - still around 1.25 inches:

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/263/image024xo.jpg/ (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/263/image024xo.jpg/)

Thickness measurement four - taken on another edge still further away out from center - again, around 1.25 inches - fairly consistent:

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/228/image025it.jpg/ (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/228/image025it.jpg/)

Next, I peeled the cheese back from the dough over part of the pizza, and took a measurement of just the "dough thickness" with no cheese on top. Here is just a shot of the cheese peeled back, so you can see what I'm measuring in the next pic:

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/692/image027cu.jpg/ (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/692/image027cu.jpg/)

Thickness measurement five - about the same spot as measurement four - but now with the cheese peeled back away from it - again, just a bit under 1.25 inches(maybe closer to the inch mark) - surprisingly (to me), the cheese doesn't really add any significant height.  The most interesting part of this pic, in my opinion, is you can see the line where the dough goes from being "cooked" to more "raw", at about a quarter-inch height from the bottom. Look carefully and you will see it:

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/220/image028e.jpg/ (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/220/image028e.jpg/)

And finally, a shot of the bottom - shiny with oil, and definitely a bit "fried" - that Jet's pizza trademark:

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/526/image026jo.jpg/ (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/526/image026jo.jpg/)


I realized too late that I forgot to measure it across the bottom. Sorry about that, but I can get it next time. :)

Hopefully these images are of some use, and hopefully the moderator can make them visible without you having to click the links.

Thanks!

-Tommy Nott




Title: Re: Jets pizza
Post by: Pete-zza on November 01, 2011, 11:13:22 AM
Tommy,

Thank you for the information on the small square cheese pizza you purchased from Jet's.

On the matter of attaching photos to posts, you might want to take a look at the thread at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,8671.0.html. If that thread doesn't apply, you might want to look at other threads on posting photos under the general Forum Info board at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/board,40.0.html.

I don't know what is going on with your kitchen scale. All scales, both analog and digital, have some way of zeroing out the scale. Obviously, the pizza weighed more than five ounces. You might try weighing objects whose weight you know to see if the scale is not operating properly for some reason. If you can correct the problem, then you will have to buy another pizza and go through the same exercise again. However, your measurements confirm that the Jet's you visited is using an 8" x 10" pan for the small square pizzas.

On the matter of the amount of cheese used, do you know if the amount was by weight or by volume? Many pizza places use portioning cups to measure out the amount of cheese for their pizzas. I do not recall seeing the use of such portioning cups in any of the videos pertaining to Jet's operations. What I saw was free-throwing of the shredded cheese.

Also, do you recall seeing the oil added to the pan or was the dough already in the pan at the time your pizza was made?

While you resolve the matter with your scale, I will take a look at the Jet's nutrition data at http://jetspizza.com/nutrition/category/13 to see if the five ounces of cheese looks right for a small Jet's square cheese pizza, either from a weight standpoint or a volume standpoint, based on using the Grande shredded mozzarella cheese, which I understand the Jet's stores are supposed to be using (I believe that they are using the low-moisture part-skim Grande mozzarella cheese).

Peter

Title: Re: Jets pizza
Post by: Tommy Nott on November 01, 2011, 12:38:17 PM
Pete,

I'm going to get another scale and try again. No worries about buying another: this is a fairly regular Saturday night thing for me :).

For the amount of cheese: actually, I did see a scale with a metal bowl up above their assembly area (on top of the metal divider that hides the view) - and I did see them put cheese into the bowl (apparently weighing it) and then taking the bowl down off the scale and (apparently) putting the cheese they weighed onto the pizza. My best guess here would be that they weigh the cheese (5 ounces) for a small pizza.

I did not see them add oil to the pan - in fact, I didn't even see them pull my pizza out before assembling... it was like it was just magically there at the assembly station. I will pay more attention for that particular detail next Saturday.

Also - I noticed a typo in my own post earlier: I stated that in the "thickness" photo you could see where the dough goes from "cooked" to raw, and that it was at about 1/4-inch high... looking at the picture again, I was wrong - it's actually at about the half-inch mark, NOT the quarter-inch.  So correction: dough goes from cooked to "raw" at a half-inch above the bottom. Not sure whether that matters or is relevant, but thought I would clarify it since I mis-stated it in my post.

Thanks,

-Tommy Nott
Title: Re: Jets pizza
Post by: Pete-zza on November 01, 2011, 01:33:29 PM
Tommy,

Five ounces of mozzarella cheese by weight does not seem to square with the nutrition information for a small square pizza as given at http://jetspizza.com/nutrition/category/13. I come to this conclusion based on the cholesterol amount given in the Jet's nutrition chart. That amount is 6 x 25 = 150 mg for a small six-slice Jet's square cheese pizza. The only cholesterol in a cheese pizza is in the cheese. There is none in the dough and there is none in the sauce and there is none in the corn oil used in the pan. If we assume that the cheese being is the shredded low-moisture part-skim Grande mozzarella cheese as described at http://www.grandecheese.com/products/Pages/Product_Spec.aspx?ProductMasterID=18, then to get 150 mg cholesterol, you would need 10 ounces of that cheese. The actual amount might vary a bit because of rounding factors, but it will not be anywhere near 5 ounces. The only other possible explanations that I can come up with is that the Jet's worker gave you incorrect information or that Jet's is using a custom mozzarella cheese from Grande, or a different mozzarella cheese, or maybe it is using less cheese, which would suggest that the Jet's nutrition information is not up to date. Before you get your next pizza I will shred some low-moisture part-skim mozarella cheese (a local supermarket brand) to see what 5 ounces by volume weighs just to have that number.

Mozzarella cheese also includes saturated fat but corn oil also includes some saturated fat so it is hard to apportion the saturated fat between the cheese and the corn oil without having a fairly accurate fix on the amount of cheese used. Likewise with the salt. Salt is present in the cheese, the sauce and the dough.

The above makes it doubly important to get an accurate weight for a small Jet's square cheese pizza. In so doing, you might want to read the posts starting at Replies 70-75 starting at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,8247.msg135948.html#msg135948 where member PizzaHog went through a similar exercise as you did with your last Jet's pizza. You will note that Hog mentioned that the Jet's pizza store he went to was using the Grande part-skim mozzarella cheese.

Peter
Title: Re: Jets pizza
Post by: Pete-zza on November 03, 2011, 01:54:39 PM
Tommy,

Last night, I measured out five ounces of shredded mozzarella cheese by volume. I used a standard supermarket brand (Lucerne) of low-moisture part skim mozzarella cheese. Five ounces of shredded mozzarella cheese by weight is about 142 grams. For five ounces of the shredded mozzarella cheese when measured out volumetrically, I got about 50 grams (about 1.76 ounces by weight). When I packed the shredded mozzarella cheese down into the measuring cup as much as I could, which is not a method used by pizzerias, I got around 83 grams by weight (a bit under 3 ounces by weight). So, if the number you were given is 5 ounces, the only thing that that can mean is 5 ounces by weight.

To dig into this further, and particularly the cholesterol issued I raised recently in this thread in relation to the cholesterol number given at the Jet's website for a small square cheese pizza, this morning I called the Grande Cheese Company where I was referred to a sales rep. You might recall that Pizza Hog mentioned that he saw the Grande low-fat mozzarella cheese being used at the Jet's store he visited. The only mozzarella cheese that I have heard about or read about as being used by Jet's is a part-skim mozzarella cheese. And the only brand of that cheese that I have heard about or read about is the Grande brand. That was confirmed to me by Grande itself.

The Grande rep I spoke with today said that there are three Grande mozzarella-only cheese products described at their website--a Whole Milk Mozzarella, a Part-Skim Mozzarella and an East Coast Blend. The East Coast Blend is a 50/50 blend of the Whole Milk Mozzarella and the Part-Skim Mozzarella. I asked the rep if Grande did any custom blending of mozzarella cheeses. She hemmed and hawed on that question, possibly because she preferred to promote their standard offerings, but finally said that custom blending might be an option, but one that would have to be discussed with others in Grande. The impression I got was that it was not an especially common option. In any event, custom blending is something that most likely would apply to an end user with a need for a lot of cheese, quite possibly a pizza chain. An individual would be able to do his or her own shredding and blending of the Grande cheeses to achieve any desired ratio.

I also asked the Grande rep whether a blend of their Whole Milk and Part-Skim mozzarella cheeses could be called "part-skim", for example, if there was more of the Part-Skim mozzarella cheese than the Whole Milk mozzarella cheese in the blend. This question stumped her, most likely because that is not a question that is posed to her very often. She really didn't have an answer to that question and simply said that an end user could decide on the makeup of the blend. I personally think that Jet's would be misleading the public and possibly even be in violation of FDA regulations if it were using a blend of whole milk and part-skim mozzarella cheeses and called it a part-skim mozzarella cheese.

Any way you look at the Grande numbers, and especially those for cholesterol, there is no way for five ounces of any of their mozzarella cheese products to meet the numbers given in the nutrition section of Jet's website for a small square cheese pizza. If you look at the labels of just about any mozzarella cheese, you will discover that the range of cholesterol levels is between about 15-20 mg per ounce (by weight). This applies to just about any brand of mozzarella cheese.

We also shouldn't rule out the possibility that you were shortchanged on the amount of mozzarella cheese used on the small square cheese pizza that you purchased. It is quite common for pizza operators who are trying to achieve certain profit goals to cut back on the amount of cheese. Mozzarella cheese is usually the most expensive part of a chain type pizza and it is easy to cut back on the amount used, whether using a scale or just free throwing. That is one of the reasons why it is important to have the weight data. Of course, the worker in the Jet's store you visited could have intentionally or unintentionally misled you.

Peter
Title: Re: Jets pizza
Post by: Tommy Nott on November 06, 2011, 12:39:35 PM
I was not able to do my pizza last night due to a last-minute work obligation :( .... so I am now planning for next weekend again.

Pete - I'm inclined to think that the guy I spoke with simply was not being honest with me - he seemed really suspicious that I would ask anything (for instance, at my very first question "do you guys actually measure or just eyeball it?" his eyes actually narrowed and he looked like I had just asked him for the key to his safe-deposit box or something) - so I'm guessing he just didn't feel like sharing.

I did get Jets pizza on Friday (a co-worker and I went in on a medium square pizza) - so I had some opportunity to do a little more observing at a different Jets location. My observations at this location were as follows:

1.) For square pizzas - I saw them bring the them out from a cooler already pressed into the pan and already with cheese put on top of them (and so, I assume the sauce as well, under the cheese).

2.) I did watch them make some of their round pizzas, which they were doing right in front.  They grabbed some pre-made balls of dough, pressed them out onto the round cooking things they have for them (round screen-like things), then put the sauce, cheese, and other toppings on. For these round pizzas, they absolutely DID NOT measure the cheese... just just "free-handed it" and gave it a good covering - but they used no instruments of measurement, and just grabbed the cheese (already shredded in a big container in front of them) and threw it on until the pie was covered. I asked the guy at the counter about it, and he flat out said "we don't measure, we just grab it and put it on" - I asked if that was true of the square pizzas too, and he said yes. So according to this location: they don't measure. And for the round ones, I witnessed it - they were not measuring.

3.) Disturbing fact: there were three people making those round pizzas in front of me - two male employees and one female. Both of the males, before making the pizza, grabbed those little clear-plastic gloves and put them on before handling the dough and cheese/etc... The female employee did NOT put those gloves on, and proceeded to handle the pies she was making barehanded, including sticking her bare hands into that big bin of shredded cheese to grab it - AND I witnessed her scratch her nose and wipe her forehead in the middle of the process.  I was less than impressed, and tempted to call the manager. I'm thinking I will not return to that particular Jets location again. Ewww.... just.... ewww.... nasty.

4.) I examined the medium pizza I got pretty carefully - it looks like it got cooked "a little more" than the small, with the cooked part of the dough coming up higher and the "raw part" of the dough being only a very thin layer on top (as opposed to the half-inch or so on my small from last week).  Either that is a "medium size" thing, and they can't cook it to the same specs ... OR - (and I suspect this is more likely the truth) - this particular Jets location just doesn't really care about following strict standards for consistency, and probably doesn't do anything "the same" all the time, as evidenced by their "we don't measure the cheese" policy...  All in all, I think this particular location is a poor choice for trying to get a feel for what Jets pizza is all about. Also - the pizza was "okay", and definitely Jets, but still not as good as the stuff I get from the locations around my house (including "the original" location, which is where my small from last week came from).

...'til next week.  Oh - I'm also going to be purchasing a new scale. :)
Title: Re: Jets pizza
Post by: Tommy Nott on November 12, 2011, 09:31:48 PM
Okay, I bought a working scale (the one at Bed, Bath, & Beyond that's from "The Biggest Loser")...

Got a small cheese pizza, uncut - and weighed it several times.

It weighed in at 1 pound, 5.3 ounces.

Or, 21.3 ounces.

There were a few times it weighed at 1 pound 5.4 (0.1 ounces more) - but after repeated weighing 21.3 ounces was the more common weight (about 8 to 2).

So there is the weight.

What next?

-TommyNott
Title: Re: Jets pizza
Post by: Pete-zza on November 13, 2011, 10:39:02 AM
Tommy,

Thank you for the weight information on your latest small square Jet's cheese pizza.

According to the Jet's nutrition information at http://jetspizza.com/nutrition/category/13, a small square Jet's cheese pizza should weigh 6 x 114 grams = 684 grams, or 24.13 ounces (684/28.35 = 24.13 ounces). So, you pizza was underweight by 24.13-21.3 = 2.83 ounces. There will be a slight loss in weight of the pizza from the store to your home as the pizza cools down, but that loss is usually very small if you live close by the store. My guess is that you may have been shortchanged on the amount of cheese. Did you sense that there was less cheese than usual? And can you venture a guess as to the amount of cheese that was on your pizza?

I think the next step is to contact Jet's to get an explanation as to the shortfall. That might also be the time to try to get an answer as to the amount of mozzarella cheese that is supposed to be used on a small square Jet's cheese pizza based on the cholesterol quantity given in the Jet's nutrition information and what Grande reports at its website for shredded low-moisture part-skim mozzarella cheese. If you go to http://jetspizza.com/contact and click on the Nutrition Information link, you will get a pop-up form to use to raise the issues of the shortfall in weight and the cholesterol levels.

If you'd like me to help you phrase the questions to use in the Jet's form, let me know. It would help in that case to know how far you live, by time or distance, from the Jet's store you visited and also whether you are a regular customer at that store, or at other Jet's stores, and for how long. You will note that the Jet's form requires that you identify which Jet's store you visited.

Right now, your latest pizza does not fit the Jet's nutrition information. There may be a perfectly good explanation for this but I'd like to know what it is. 

Peter
Title: Re: Jets pizza
Post by: Tommy Nott on November 14, 2011, 12:49:28 AM
I'm willing to do that, yes. Actually, this pizza was right from "the original" Jets party store location at 14 Mile & Ryan (Sterling Heights, MI). I live two miles north, at 16 Mile & Ryan (still Sterling Heights).

However, this particular pizza did suffer a delay on the way home in the form of my wife stopping at CVS to buy a few things.

So lets do it this way:

I'm going to give them another chance, next Saturday. This time, I will get the pizza myself, drive it straight home, and put it immediately on the scale. I'll keep track of time too, from when it was in my hands to when I weigh it.

If next week's pizza once again appears to be "under-weight", then yes I definitely want to use that form you mentioned - and yes, I also would appreciate your help in phrasing the questions/etc...

I will report time from handoff to weigh-in and what the weight is next Saturday night.

Oh - and to answer your other question: no, it didn't seem like less cheese to me. It seemed like a typical small square Jets cheese pizza. Thats not to say it wasn't light though.  I just don't know if I'd notice 2 ounces of missing cheese in the context of an entire pizza.

Thanks,

-Tommy Nott
Title: Re: Jets pizza
Post by: Pete-zza on November 14, 2011, 10:14:02 AM
Tommy,

A pizza will lose some weight as it cools down but it should not be a lot. For example, if you look at Reply 213 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,6758.msg107567/topicseen.html#msg107567, you will see that I calculated the weight loss of a basic Papa John's pizza to be 3 grams from the store to my home. However, to give Jet's one less reason to question the weight in your case, it may be a good idea to buy another pizza and weigh it as soon as you can. In my case, I brought my scale and a pizza screen with me to PJs and bought the pizza uncut. I tared the screen on my scale and then put the just-baked pizza on top of the screen to weigh it. I did this in my car in the PJ parking lot. I repeated the weighing as soon as I got home and from that weighing I calculated the weight loss from the store to my home. According to what a PJ rep told me some time ago, the Federal regulations permit some variance from the weights of pizzas stated in nutrition information. That might be the explanation in this case, especially if you hit the Jet's store at a very busy time, but I want Jet's to tell us that (without prompting by us) if we eventually contact them on this matter. I'd also like to know if the Jet's store you visited habitually makes underweight pizzas. I suppose that there is also a possibility that the Jet's nutrition information is not up to date or is incorrect in some respect. These days, the nutrition information is typically done by specialized software, either in-house or outsourced.

Peter
Title: Re: Jets pizza
Post by: Tommy Nott on November 19, 2011, 10:09:23 PM
Pizza #3:

The kid making it was very easygoing and talkative - I watched him throw the cheese up on the scale (scale face is away from me though, so I can't see the weight)... I asked if he always weighs it or if he can just freehand it sometimes... he laughed and said "No, I have to weigh it every time"... I asked him how much he had to use, and he replied "For a small cheese pizza? 6 ounces".  So that was one ounce more than what the other guy told me. (however, they probably have to take into account the container they weigh it in, so maybe he is just used to seeing "6 ounces" as the target weight, with 1 ounce being the container?  I don't know, since I couldn't see the scale face.

So here is the breakdown of the pizza making process:

They had a stack of about 3-4 small pizza pans with the dough already pressed in sitting next to the assembly station. That stack was in a plastic bag, which had a fair amount of condensation building up inside it, so I'd say it had been in a cooler for several hours at least prior to being brought out.

They grab one out of the bag, put on the sauce (couldn't see this very well), then weigh the cheese and put it over the top.

He put the pie on the conveyor at 9:04PM (conveyor was set to 475 degrees for the top conveyor, where the pizza was going).
He pulled it off the other end at 9:12PM, boxed it and handed it to me uncut.
I was putting it on my scale at 9:21PM, 9 minutes later.

This pizza weighed in at 1 pound, 5.4 ounces - or 21.4 ounces.   Exactly 0.1 ounces heavier than last weeks pie. I weighed it several times over the course of two minutes, and it was the exact same weigh every time until the very end, when suddenly it lost 0.1 (weighing in at 21.3 ounces now - IDENTICAL to last week, which - if you recall - was delayed in the weighing).

I would say that this pizza was exactly to standard, since two of them one week apart weighed in within 0.1 ounces of each other and after time lapse weighed the same.

Then I got a little crazy.

I scraped off the cheese as best as I could and weighed just that: it weighed in at 5.3 ounces .... however, there was some cheese stuck along the edges, kind of burned into the crust... so there was probably more like 5.5 ounces of cheese total....

So, in summary:

Pizza-kid says 6 ounces of cheese - which he was definitely weighing on a scale and not freehanding.
Cooking time 7-8 minutes at 475 degrees
Pizza weight 21.3 - 21.4 ounces
Cheese alone 5.3 - 5.5 ounces.

-Tommy Nott
Title: Re: Jets pizza
Post by: Pete-zza on November 20, 2011, 04:19:49 PM
Tommy,

Now, that is two Jet's small square cheese pizzas in a row that don't seem to fit the Jet's Nutrition Facts. I think it may be appropriate to send an email to Jet's on the matter. I don't want anyone to think that Jet's has done anything wrong so tomorrow I will send you a PM with a proposed email to send to Jet's.

Peter
Title: Re: Jets pizza
Post by: norma427 on December 01, 2011, 08:00:02 PM
This was my next attempt for a Jetís pizza, using the new steel pans (8Ēx10Ē) I purchased.  I used the same formula I used the last time, but did change the flour to the PFM Mondako flour.  The steel pan was seasoned before the bake one time.  I used a fair amount of corn oil in the steel pan for this attempt, but the bottom crust still didnít get crunchy.  The attempt still did taste very good and was light and fluffy.  There wasnít much corn oil left in the pan, after the bake, so the dough must have soak-up most of the corn oil, while proofing or in the bake.  I will try to season the pan again before another attempt at a Jetís pizza is made.

Norma
Title: Re: Jets pizza
Post by: norma427 on December 01, 2011, 08:01:12 PM
Norma
Title: Re: Jets pizza
Post by: norma427 on December 01, 2011, 08:02:18 PM
Norma
Title: Re: Jets pizza
Post by: norma427 on December 01, 2011, 08:03:40 PM
Norma
Title: Re: Jets pizza
Post by: norma427 on December 01, 2011, 08:04:50 PM
Norma
Title: Re: Jets pizza
Post by: norma427 on December 01, 2011, 08:05:53 PM
Norma
Title: Re: Jets pizza
Post by: norma427 on December 01, 2011, 08:06:49 PM
Norma
Title: Re: Jets pizza
Post by: Tommy Nott on December 03, 2011, 09:08:23 PM
Hi Norma,

That looks really good!

Examining the pics, though, I have some constructive comments:

It looks like the dough in your pizza is cooked all the way through from bottom to top.

In a Jets pizza, the bottom half of the dough is cooked, but the top half (up to the sauce) is still kind of raw, which gives the pizza a "chewy texture", which is a great contrast with the crunchy bottom. Check out this picture - it is a side view of a Jets small square with the cheese peeled back. You can see the dough is cooked up to just under the half-inch mark - I have drawn a line in the pic to show where it changes:



I'm thinking that, by Jets standards, that pizza might be a little overcooked (no "raw chewy dough" left in it).

Are you baking it at 475 degrees for 7-8 minutes?
Title: Re: Jets pizza
Post by: norma427 on December 03, 2011, 09:23:09 PM
Hi Norma,

That looks really good!

Examining the pics, though, I have some constructive comments:

It looks like the dough in your pizza is cooked all the way through from bottom to top.

In a Jets pizza, the bottom half of the dough is cooked, but the top half (up to the sauce) is still kind of raw, which gives the pizza a "chewy texture", which is a great contrast with the crunchy bottom. Check out this picture - it is a side view of a Jets small square with the cheese peeled back. You can see the dough is cooked up to just under the half-inch mark - I have drawn a line in the pic to show where it changes:



I'm thinking that, by Jets standards, that pizza might be a little overcooked (no "raw chewy dough" left in it).

Are you baking it at 475 degrees for 7-8 minutes?


Tommy,

I always like constructive comments.  Thanks for yours since you have eaten real Jetís pizzas.  I never tried a real Jetís pizza.  I see what you mean by the top half being kind of raw.  Thanks for posting that picture.  I donít think my steel pan is seasoned enough to be able to get a crunchy bottom.  I am not baking at 475 for 7 to 8 minutes.  My deck oven is right around 525 degrees F.  I could change the temperature, but then my market pies wouldnít turn out right.  I will work on the Jetís pizza again in the future. 

Thanks so much for your help in this thread!  :)

Norma
Title: Re: Jets pizza
Post by: norma427 on December 06, 2011, 10:07:23 PM
I made another attempt for a Jetís pizza today.  The only thing I changed was I used Better for Bread flour in the same formulation I had tried last week.

Norma
Title: Re: Jets pizza
Post by: norma427 on December 06, 2011, 10:08:20 PM
Norma
Title: Re: Jets pizza
Post by: norma427 on December 06, 2011, 10:09:27 PM
Norma
Title: Re: Jets pizza
Post by: norma427 on December 06, 2011, 10:10:47 PM
Norma
Title: Re: Jets pizza
Post by: norma427 on December 06, 2011, 10:12:06 PM
Norma
Title: Re: Jets pizza
Post by: norma427 on December 06, 2011, 10:13:27 PM
Norma
Title: Re: Jets pizza
Post by: norma427 on December 06, 2011, 10:14:51 PM
Norma
Title: Re: Jets pizza
Post by: Tommy Nott on December 11, 2011, 07:06:50 PM
Eureka! It looks like you got it! :)

Looking at those pics with the side view, it looks much more like the bottom half is crunchy and heading up to the upper half of the dough it's still more raw/chewy.  Did it have that crunchy/chewy texture when you bit into it? (I realize you haven't had an actual Jets pizza so you don't know if it was exact - but those pictures seem to match mine fairly closely!)

Nice work!

How did you achieve that? Different temps or cooking times? Or, as you said, was the type of dough used actually the only difference?

-Tommy Nott
Title: Re: Jets pizza
Post by: norma427 on December 11, 2011, 08:57:37 PM
Eureka! It looks like you got it! :)

Looking at those pics with the side view, it looks much more like the bottom half is crunchy and heading up to the upper half of the dough it's still more raw/chewy.  Did it have that crunchy/chewy texture when you bit into it? (I realize you haven't had an actual Jets pizza so you don't know if it was exact - but those pictures seem to match mine fairly closely!)

Nice work!

How did you achieve that? Different temps or cooking times? Or, as you said, was the type of dough used actually the only difference?

-Tommy Nott

Tommy,

Thanks for your kind words.  :) I am only estimating what a Jetís pizza is like, since I never really tasted a real Jetís pizza.  My attempt at the bake was better than before, but I donítí think I am there yet.  The bottom crust did have some crunch, but I donít really think it was enough.  I really donít know if my blue steel pans are seasoned enough or not.  Really, the only difference in my last attempt compared to the last two attempts was I changed the flour to Better for Bread flour and my steel pans are getting seasoned better.  I really canít change my baking temperatures because I bake my normal pizzas for market at 525 degrees F, so that is what I had to go with.  If you attempt a Jetís pizza at home you can adjust your oven temperature or use different rack positions.

Norma

Title: Re: Jets pizza
Post by: Essen1 on December 11, 2011, 09:07:57 PM
The Queen of Sicilian is back!  ;D

Seriously Norma, that's a hell of a good looking pizza. I have never tried my hands on Sicilian-style but might as well get to it finally. I have one question, though...

In the pic below, is that liquid inside the container and on top of the dough?

Title: Re: Jets pizza
Post by: norma427 on December 11, 2011, 09:39:13 PM
The Queen of Sicilian is back!  ;D

Seriously Norma, that's a hell of a good looking pizza. I have never tried my hands on Sicilian-style but might as well get to it finally. I have one question, though...

In the pic below, is that liquid inside the container and on top of the dough?



Mike,

Lol!  :-D Thanks for your kind words about the Jetís attempt.  :)  I donít know how you would like Jetís pizza, but Steve, my taste testers, some customers that have tasted them, and I really do like pizzas that are made in a pan.  They are a lot easier to do than NY style pizzas because there is no stretching the dough ball out and the bake temperature really doesnít have to be real hot.  Looking forward to seeing you try something like a Jetís pizza, Buddyís or Shields, or maybe a Victor Pig pizza, if you decide to try any of them!  ;D

That picture you posted must have the light shining on it the wrong way.  There was no liquid in the container.  Maybe it was my fingers that cast that shadow.  It does look like liquid in the container.

Norma
Title: Re: Jets pizza
Post by: Essen1 on December 11, 2011, 09:51:26 PM
Mike,

Lol!  :-D Thanks for your kind words about the Jetís attempt.  :)  I donít know how you would like Jetís pizza, but Steve, my taste testers, some customers that have tasted them, and I really do like pizzas that are made in a pan.  They are a lot easier to do than NY style pizzas because there is no stretching the dough ball out and the bake temperature really doesnít have to be real hot.  Looking forward to seeing you try something like a Jetís pizza, Buddyís or Shields, or maybe a Victor Pig pizza, if you decide to try any of them!  ;D

That picture you posted must have the light shining on it the wrong way.  There was no liquid in the container.  Maybe it was my fingers that cast that shadow.  It does look like liquid in the container.

Norma

Norma,

Thanks for the clarification. I didn't know what it was and thought it looked like some form of liquid which was maybe required to proof the dough.

Anyway, I will try my hands on a Sicilian in the next few days and post them in a new thread.
Title: Re: Jets pizza
Post by: Tommy Nott on December 18, 2011, 12:40:38 PM
I had to do a double-take at that picture too, it really does look like liquid at first glance.

However, after looking at it more closely - I'd say what we are seeing is the top rim of the container being a bit "refracted" through the plastic.  If you follow the rim around you can see it goes right into what looks like the "top line of the liquid" ... it's just the rim.

Good catch, though - I had never noticed that before.

-Tommy nott
Title: Re: Jets pizza
Post by: segfault on December 18, 2011, 08:06:01 PM
I used Norma's recipe and here are my results.  I cooked @ 475, bottom rack, 18min.  KAAP flour, blue steel pan seasoned with corn oil


Title: Re: Jets pizza
Post by: segfault on December 18, 2011, 08:07:12 PM
.
Title: Re: Jets pizza
Post by: norma427 on December 18, 2011, 09:42:49 PM
segfault,

Thanks for posting your results with using my formulation.  Your Jetís attempt really looks great!  ;D Did your bottom crust turn out crunchy?  Did you ever eat a real Jetís pizza?  If you did what did you think of the results of your attempt?  Since I have never eaten a real Jetís pizza I really donít have anything to compare my results with.

Great job!  :)

Norma
Title: Re: Jets pizza
Post by: segfault on December 18, 2011, 11:31:56 PM
Hi Norma,

My bottom crust was indeed very crunchy and the dough reminded me of eating a Jets pizza.  I live in Michigan and Jets deep dish is actually my favorite pizza.  In my estimation, my attempt was a touch overcooked, but I recently moved, and am still tweaking cook times for my oven :)

I'm not sure if it makes a difference, but I used the Deep-Dish Dough Calculation Tool and set the "how far up the sides of the pan will the dough go" setting to 1".  I noticed you used the expanded dough calculation tool.  Everything else in my attempt was the same. 

I'm new here, but would love to contribute to anything needed to clone Jet's pizza, in particular, I'm interested in figuring out how to make a "jet fuel" clone :)



Title: Re: Jets pizza
Post by: norma427 on December 19, 2011, 06:31:40 AM
Hi Norma,

My bottom crust was indeed very crunchy and the dough reminded me of eating a Jets pizza.  I live in Michigan and Jets deep dish is actually my favorite pizza.  In my estimation, my attempt was a touch overcooked, but I recently moved, and am still tweaking cook times for my oven :)

I'm not sure if it makes a difference, but I used the Deep-Dish Dough Calculation Tool and set the "how far up the sides of the pan will the dough go" setting to 1".  I noticed you used the expanded dough calculation tool.  Everything else in my attempt was the same.  

I'm new here, but would love to contribute to anything needed to clone Jet's pizza, in particular, I'm interested in figuring out how to make a "jet fuel" clone :)



segfault,

I forgot to welcome you to the forum.  I didnít notice how many posts you had.  I also didnít know if you have been watching this thread before you were a member or not. I looked at your past posts and saw you said you have been creeping this forum for awhile, but would like to post on the Jetís thread. Since you have tasted a real Jetís pizza you already know how they should taste.  I donít know if you read Peterís detailed post at Reply 26 http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,8247.msg118161.html#msg118161 or not, but in that post he posted that Castella prepares proprietary blends of herbs and seasonings for end users and they donít sell directly to the public.  Peter also noted that the herbs/seasoning blend is added to the mixer bowl right after the Jet Fuel tomato product is added to the bowl along with water to thin it down.  If you read on in Peterís reply, you can find out what he posted about, if you havenít already read it.

It is great that you got a crunchy bottom crust.  :) Your home oven seems to do a better job than my deck oven.  

In my opinion it could have made a difference that you used the Deep-Dish Calculation Tool.  Do you mind posting the exact formula you used from that tool, if you can?  If you wanted to make a thicker pizza that tool does come in handy.  

Glad to hear you would love to contribute anything needed to clone a Jetís pizza.  :)

Norma
Title: Re: Jets pizza
Post by: segfault on December 21, 2011, 05:01:55 PM
My attempt after this i reduced the "how far up the sides" from 1.25 to 1.00
Title: Re: Jets pizza
Post by: norma427 on December 21, 2011, 05:09:12 PM
My attempt after this i reduced the "how far up the sides" from 1.25 to 1.00

segfault,

Thanks so much for posting the picture of how you did the formulation on the Deep dish calculation tool!  :) That should help anyone that might want to replicate your results.

Norma
Title: Re: Jets pizza
Post by: Pete-zza on December 21, 2011, 07:27:23 PM
segfault,

Having been involved in the design of the deep-dish dough calculating tool, along with Boy Hits Car (Mike), I can tell you that that tool is intended to be used for deep-dish pizzas, of the Chicago style with a crust thickness of a fraction of an inch, not for a pan-style pizza where the dough is proofed to rise in the pan, like a Jet's dough, a Buddy's dough, etc. Using the deep-dish dough calculating tool as a proxy for a Jet's style pizza will lead to an amount of dough that will be too much for a Jet's small 8" x 10" pizza and will not pass muster under the Jet's Nutrition Facts at http://jetspizza.com/nutrition/category/13. You will be several ounces off. The Rectangular feature was included as an option in the deep-dish dough calculating tool, even though Mike and I were not aware at the time of any pizza operator who was making a rectangular Chicago-style pizza, although maybe a Rocky Rococo pizza (http://www.rockyrococo.com/default.aspx) was a possible candidate, just in case someone wanted to attempt a rectangular deep-dish style pizza.

However, I like your creative approach and contribution to the Jet's reverse-engineering and cloning project.

Peter
Title: Re: Jets pizza
Post by: ahamric on January 17, 2012, 05:57:03 PM
Hello All,

I just joined the forum, but I have been reading this thread for months. I just ordered some blue steel pans from Northern Pizza Equipment and am going to try my hand at one of these recipes.

Quick question: I have always used IDY in the past, just throwing it in with the dry ingredients, then adding warm water and letting it rise for a few hours. Can I do the same with the recipes that cold ferment overnight (or longer)? I purchased some ADY with the thought that it would be better for a longer rise, but I am not sure if I need to dissolve it first.

Also: In the Buddy's/Shield's thread, there were comments about the cheese "welding" itself to the sides of the steel pans without taking special care to ensure that there was oil or shortening on the sides of the pan. However, I have not seen anyone mention this here. When would this be an issue?

Thanks!

Andy
Title: Re: Jets pizza
Post by: Pete-zza on January 17, 2012, 07:51:30 PM
Andy,

From the Jet's video referenced earlier in this thread, it looks like all of the water is added to the mixer bowl with the yeast. If the yeast is ADY, I assume that the water is warm, but because the dough is made and used within a short period of time, the water might not be warm. That is not the ordinary practice but it would extend the window of usability of the dough. If you plan to use ADY for a cold fermentation application, I would rehydrate the ADY in a small amount of the formula water at around 105 degrees F for about ten minutes. The rehydrated ADY can then be added to the rest of the formula water or to the rest of the ingredients in the mixer bowl. Normally, you would adjust the temperature of the part of the water not used to rehydrate the ADY to achieve a finished dough temperature of around 75-80 degrees F.

I have not seen or read anything to suggest that Jet's tries to pile the cheese against the sides of the pans. Tommy Nott may know the answer for sure since he had been buying Jet's pan pizzas for some time and had been observing their methods over the past few months.

Peter
Title: Re: Jets pizza
Post by: ahamric on January 17, 2012, 11:14:32 PM
Thanks Peter!

I had assumed that the crusty cheese at the edges of a Jet's pizza were the same as Buddy's and Shield's, but I haven't had Buddy's or Shield's in so long... they may be taking extra steps to pile cheese at the edges while Jet's just extends the cheese to the edge without attempting to pile it up.

I got my blue steel pans (at least blue in the order name - there is no blue color but I think blue probably refers to a process of rust resistance), washed them in warm soapy water, then dried them in the oven.

While I was drying them by hand before placing them in the oven, I noticed that I was still getting gray "smudges" on my paper towel. Should I be concerned about this? I was planning on seasoning the outside of the pans as recommended elsewhere on the site, although I fail to see any harm in seasoning the inside of the pan too... even if it will season itself over time.
Title: Re: Jets pizza
Post by: segfault on January 27, 2012, 04:46:10 PM
You'll want to season the inside of your blue steel pans before making pizza in them... or your pizza won't pop out nice and easy after it's baked.  Or at least that was my experience with them.

I simply :
coat pan in oil (i use corn oil)
cook @ 425 for 20 minutes
cool, repeat
coat pan 3rd time
place sheet of foil on rack, under where pan will cook
cook upside down for 20min





Thanks Peter!

I had assumed that the crusty cheese at the edges of a Jet's pizza were the same as Buddy's and Shield's, but I haven't had Buddy's or Shield's in so long... they may be taking extra steps to pile cheese at the edges while Jet's just extends the cheese to the edge without attempting to pile it up.

I got my blue steel pans (at least blue in the order name - there is no blue color but I think blue probably refers to a process of rust resistance), washed them in warm soapy water, then dried them in the oven.

While I was drying them by hand before placing them in the oven, I noticed that I was still getting gray "smudges" on my paper towel. Should I be concerned about this? I was planning on seasoning the outside of the pans as recommended elsewhere on the site, although I fail to see any harm in seasoning the inside of the pan too... even if it will season itself over time.
Title: Re: Jets pizza
Post by: ahamric on January 28, 2012, 11:05:56 PM
Thanks Segfault!

The first attempt I used your recipe posted a bit earlier. I forgot to change it from 1.25 to 1 inch though. I only cooked it for 11:30 on the bottom rack at 475 F and it was too doughy. This attempt used 1 T and 1 t of peanut oil in the bottom (after seasoning 2 or 3 times) and the cheese stuck pretty badly to the sides. Plus the peanut oil didn't give the right flavor of a true Jet's.

Tonight I made a second attempt, reducing your deep dish recipe to 1 inch. The crust still seemed pretty thick, but I had let the dough rise over six hours in a sealed plastic container and then about four hours in the covered pan, so maybe it rose too much. Texture of the crust was really nice though after baking at 475 F on bottom rack for 15 minutes. Nice browning, and crispy bottom, although still not crunchy enough to mimic a Jet's. I eye-balled putting corn oil in the bottom of the pan. It was definitely less than last time (maybe a couple teaspoons). The crust was not greasy at all when it came out, but the flavor was more neutral. For my next attempt I think I will try 1 T of corn oil and see if I get more crunch.

This second attempt was made after seasoning the pan another two or three times, and the release was much better. Virtually no sticking to the pan. However, I wonder if I was using too much oil for the seasoning attempts. I have some gummy residue in the bottom of the pan, and if I try to use paper towels to wipe it out, they stick too much and leave paper fibers in the pan. I think I will just leave it as is for the next try.
Title: Re: Jets pizza
Post by: sailor570 on January 29, 2012, 03:36:55 AM
Peter
I'm puzzled.
In reading this topic it seems you are still looking for TF or dough weights for the 3 sizes.
Did you miss that information in reply 65, or did you deem his info to be less than accurate?
From my experience, and I'm by no means saying it's more than yours, his weights seem pretty good.

Thank You
Blair
Title: Re: Jets pizza
Post by: Pete-zza on January 29, 2012, 10:48:46 AM
Blair,

I did see the reply you referenced but I had difficulty in matching it with the Jet's Nutrition Facts. There is also the issue of reliability. As noted earlier in this thread, I was given incorrect information on pan sizes, either innocently or intentionally. Also, one of our members tried recently to have questions about the Jet's Nutrition Facts answered (by a Jet's corporate employee) and was given evasive answers and the runaround. The member was also knowingly (in my opinion) given incorrect information by a worker in one of the Jet's stores where he has been buying pizzas for years. Even that information was at odds with the Jet's Nutrition Facts. Because of issues like these, I have become increasingly suspect of information given by present or former employees of companies whose products I try to reverse engineer and clone. For example, if you go over to the Mellow Mushroom thread at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,3940.0.html, I would say that there were perhaps a half dozen instances where we were given incorrect information by Mellow Mushroom employees or in materials put out by Mellow Mushroom. Jet's happens to be more careful about their operations than Mellow Mushroom seems to be, as can be seen by the way that they hide what they do by using special packaging for their canned tomatoes and flour. Their employees at the store level are also instructed not to reveal information to outsiders, like customers, on their operations.

One of these days, I will perhaps get back to this project. My practice is to stay with a project until I am either done or can't take it any further. As one who has a "I will work for food" philosophy, I try to encourage our members to become more actively involved in reverse engineering and cloning projects, especially for clones or copycats of chain pizzas that are in great demand, rather than leaving all of the work to be done by one or a few of the members--which can take months--and simply wait until all the answers are in and then conveniently take the final formulation and leave the forum.

Peter
Title: Re: Jets pizza
Post by: ahamric on February 05, 2012, 10:31:43 AM
Hello folks,

I made segfault's recipe again and I need some help tweaking it. The recipe I used was from the deep-dish too (TF entered as 0.15 and 1 inch up the sides):

Flour (100%):
Water (65%):
IDY (.3851%):
Salt (1.75%):
Sugar (2.1875%):
Total (169.3226%):
272.76 g  |  9.62 oz | 0.6 lbs
177.29 g  |  6.25 oz | 0.39 lbs
1.05 g | 0.04 oz | 0 lbs | 0.35 tsp | 0.12 tbsp
4.77 g | 0.17 oz | 0.01 lbs | 0.99 tsp | 0.33 tbsp
5.97 g | 0.21 oz | 0.01 lbs | 1.5 tsp | 0.5 tbsp
461.84 g | 16.29 oz | 1.02 lbs | TF = 0.15225

Here is what I did:

I mixed the dry ingredients together (using King Arthur Bread Flour), then poured 110 F water into my KA stand mixer bowl. I put it on the lowest setting and beat it (C-hook) until the dough started getting incorporated (~45 s), then put the mixer up one setting and beat for 5 minutes. After this I transferred the ball to a plastic container coated in Pam, then oiled the top with corn oil and sealed the container for 5 hours.

I coated the 8x10 blued steel pan with 1 T corn oil (silicone brush) and stretched the dough out into the pan, covered with a lid for about one hour 15 minutes, then dressed with some 6-in-1 (previously frozen), 6 oz mozzarella, pepperoni, sausage, and green olives. I baked it on the bottom rack at 475 F for 16 minutes, which was 1 minute longer than my last attempt.

Observations: The cheese started to brown on the top near the edges, so I don't want to bake it much longer. The bottom was nicely browned, but the crisp seemed to mostly be on the surface and did not penetrate up into the crust as much as I would like. Also, the crunch is not as hard as I want. Additionally, the top half of the dough was not baked through enough and tasted doughy. At first I thought it might be due to some water released by the 6-in-1 during the thaw, but I had this same problem last time and that time I used the 6-in-1 straight from the can.

I converted segfault's recipe to the regular dough calculator, and discovered that the thickness factor is about 0.20!

Flour (100%):
Water (65%):
IDY (.3851%):
Salt (1.75%):
Sugar (2.1875%):
Total (169.3226%):
271.91 g  |  9.59 oz | 0.6 lbs
176.74 g  |  6.23 oz | 0.39 lbs
1.05 g | 0.04 oz | 0 lbs | 0.35 tsp | 0.12 tbsp
4.76 g | 0.17 oz | 0.01 lbs | 0.99 tsp | 0.33 tbsp
5.95 g | 0.21 oz | 0.01 lbs | 1.49 tsp | 0.5 tbsp
460.4 g | 16.24 oz | 1.01 lbs | TF = 0.203

Questions:

1. Will  changing the dough to a TF of, say, 0.15 allow my crust to cook through?
2. Will more oil give me a deeper, harder crunch? If not, do you have any suggestions? I thought of trying to change oven temperature but I am really at a loss for what might allow the bottom to cook harder without browning the top too much. Maybe use my pizza stone?

Thanks for everyone's help! This forum is fantastic and even with the limitations of my above experiences, I am still making remarkably good pizza!

Andy

Title: Re: Jets pizza
Post by: joelb79 on February 17, 2012, 09:44:37 PM
GFS indicate they do not handle Grande.

My local GFS has had Grande in 5lb Shredded bags for a cost premium above their Primo Gusto brand. Honestly when checking the dates, the Grande has a best by date 2 days from the date I saw it and I was in at closing. They had significant stock of it. The Primo Gusto was marked with a best by date 3 weeks out and was cheaper, and available in diced, shredded, whole milk and part skim, as well as part skim/prov mixes. I went back another date and the space where the Grande branded products were was filled with solely Primo Gusto

So, it wouldn't be wise to assume that GFS doesn't carry or deal with Grande. I didn't see the reason for the extra $5 for my home pies, especially when it would spoil before use. Also, they do not seem to consistently carry it up front. I'm sure for business accounts they may deal differently than retail/display space. Looks like I'll give that grande a try if they have it out again, since I like Jet's cheese so much.
Title: Re: Jets pizza
Post by: segfault on August 12, 2012, 01:19:07 AM
bought a house :)  finally trying a deep dish in a new oven.  So excited to have gas burners again!

the usual formula tweaked abit (.85 inch rise)  and i prebaked (see below)

ambient temp was only 75 degrees and I was in a time pinch so i preheated the oven to like 150 then turned it off
set dough in pan and let it rise for about 4 hours
prebake in oven @ 500 for 5 min (was too long, next time 2 or 3 min)
bake @ 475 for 17 min..... about 1/4 off bottom of oven

after 17 min...... determinted it needed to be cooked more (bottom wasn't crispy) so i bumped the oven up to 500 and set the timer to 7 min.

wasn't really a good "jets" replication but it still tasted good :)
Title: Re: Jets pizza
Post by: Chicago Bob on August 12, 2012, 01:30:25 AM
I like how you are so specific about your temps. an times. You will get this dialed in so quickly. Good for you...thanks for the pics too!   ;)
Title: Re: Jets pizza
Post by: Chicago Bob on October 01, 2012, 04:25:27 PM
I just found out I have a new Jets Pizza now in my area.....any suggestions? I see that you can order a pie that each slice is a corner piece....folks must luv them Jetts corners!  ;D
Title: Re: Jets pizza
Post by: jetsaddict on October 14, 2012, 08:13:25 PM
Thanks everyone for their contributions.  Decided to start baking to save money, as a bag of flour is insanely cheaper than buying the stuff you can make with it.  Baked my first loaf of bread yesterday, that's as far as my experience goes.  I mainly want to make my own pizza, as buying jets only once a week or so is as much as I have been able to cut back, which is still $15-$20 a week, $80 a month, etc.   

I used the deep dish dough calculator and the values segfault posted.  I used pilsbury bread flour.  Let the dough rise in the bowl for about an hour and a half, and it didn't seem to rise as much as the bread I made yesterday.  The only pan I had was a new 9x5 cheap bread pan.  Oiled the pan with soy bean oil, but the no stick made the oil pool and bead up.  I'm guessing a real pizza pan isn't non stick and would help with this.

I spread the dough in the pan, had a hell of a time getting the dough to go up the edges to form a crust, then let rise for about 3 hours.  After the dough rose again, the edges were easier to form.  I think if the dough was a little drier I could have made the sides a little thicker. The dough seemed too liquidy, but I don't know I've never worked with dough before.   

I used some store bought prego pizza sauce, tasted way too acidic, added sugar to it and it wasn't bad.  Jet's has pretty good pizza sauce, but there's tons of pizza sauce recipes out there so I'm sure I can improve on this, the crust and dough is what makes a Jets pizza for me (and the ranch), the sauce and cheese don't have to be exact. 

I have a very old gas oven, and I preheated it to about 500 F for a half hour with a pizza stone on the second to lowest rack height.  I don't recall anyone else posting how they cooked it, if the used a stone or not, but I figured this would help give the bottom that deep fried crust while not cooking the top as fast. 

I turned the oven down some, somewhere between 450 and 500 F, the oven is not that exact and put the pizza in.  Set a timer for 10 minutes because the pan was so small.  It was done after the ten minutes, faster than I thought, but the cheese was starting to bubble and brown.

It turned out great, not quite Jets, but its a good substitute.  The bottom looked almost the same, much like the other posters, golden brown with the bubbles that weren't' touching the pan. The edges were almost just like Jets but not as thick, although towards the center the pizza was not as crunchy, like others have posted in this thread.  Using a real pizza pan, without the oil beading and pooling up in the nonstick bread pan I used would help I think.   

The dough was not quite as fluffy or thick as jets, maybe could rise longer or use more yeast? Or possibly even more dough?  Jets also seems to have the bottom 1/4" of dough deep fried, where mine was just the 1/8" or less of the bottom, if that makes any sense.  There was no grease or oil left on my pizza, where jets usually has ample.  Maybe use more oil in the pan next time, and a real pan might help.  I don't think using the soybean oil I had would be any different from corn oil.

The top was doughy like Jets, probably helped by the fact I used too much sauce, and a little too much cheese.  I'm sure getting the entire bottom fried and leaving to top doughy would be very hard to accomplish without the conveyor belt ovens they have.  My oven goes up to 550, I was thinking of preheating the pizza stone as high as I can then turning the oven down to cook the pizza, I'm just worried the edges might get burnt.

I made my own ranch with hidden valley buttermilk packet.  I used one cup of buttermilk, half a cup of mayo, and half a cup of sour cream.  Pretty close to jets ranch, but not as tangy and I think I can taste the mayo.  Jets has the best ranch imo.  My fiance used to work at jets like ten years ago and she swears they used hidden valley packets to make their ranch.  But Jet's ranch seems more oily than what I made, do people make ranch with oil?  From what she remembers the pizza making procedure is the same as everyone else described.     

I can't believe how good my pizza turned out, especially using a bread pan and never baking anything before.  Thought I'd share how mine turned out, thanks everyone for trying to replicate Jet's and posting the results. 
Title: Re: Jets pizza
Post by: Chicago Bob on October 14, 2012, 08:29:13 PM
Sounds great addict...your instincts are quite impressive so it is no wonder your first attempt turned out so well. Go with that different pan idea of yours...you will see a BIG improvement.  ;)
Nice job man!  :chef:
Title: Re: Jets pizza
Post by: segfault on March 17, 2014, 10:06:40 PM
i feel like bumping this thread, for the past year(s)+ I've played around with the amount of corn oil i use, bake times, temperatures, and can never quite replicate the crunch that a jet's pizza provides.  short of getting a temp job there, i'm throwing in the towel :P

Title: Re: Jets pizza
Post by: norma427 on March 18, 2014, 06:39:41 AM
i feel like bumping this thread, for the past year(s)+ I've played around with the amount of corn oil i use, bake times, temperatures, and can never quite replicate the crunch that a jet's pizza provides.  short of getting a temp job there, i'm throwing in the towel :P

segfault,

You might want to look at Peter post at Reply 7 and some of other posts on that thread http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=23495.msg238665#msg238665 (http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=23495.msg238665#msg238665) to see if you can get some helpful information about a Jet's pizza.

The Sicilian pizzas I was experimenting with on another thread really weren't a Jet's clone, but I was trying to achieve something like a Jet's pizza.  This is one example of the Sicilian pizza I made at Reply 60 http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=18281.msg180372#msg180372 (http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=18281.msg180372#msg180372) and the next few posts.  If you look through that thread it can be seen what formulations I tried.

Norma
Title: Re: Jets pizza
Post by: RPCLady on April 07, 2014, 07:24:02 PM
Greetings!  I know this thread got started quite awhile ago, but I wanted to let you know I enjoyed reading through it!  My computer is broken so I can't watch the video clips here on the forums however I finally took some time and was able to watch the youtube videos on my smart TV today....while searching for videos featuring Jet's I found this gem:

 http://youtu.be/BQv-V1HmkRc (http://youtu.be/BQv-V1HmkRc)
Title: Re: Jets pizza
Post by: RockyMountainPie on April 12, 2014, 02:46:37 AM
RPCLady,

A lot of good information there on the process of making a Jet's pizza.  Thanks for posting it!


Title: Re: Jets pizza
Post by: daveJay on August 13, 2014, 12:24:26 PM
Hey everyone. I see this thread is a bit old, but I just finished reading the entire chain of messages and am fascinated by it all. Especially the level of dedication by Pete and Norma who haven't even ever had a Jet's pizza before! Thanks to you both.

I'd like to try using the formulation by Segfault on reply 161 http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=8247.msg164370#msg164370 (http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=8247.msg164370#msg164370) because he seemed to get the best result of a crispy crust. I ordered a 10" x 14" pizza pan from Detroit Style Pizza (http://detroitstylepizza.co/detroit-style-pizza-pans/ (http://detroitstylepizza.co/detroit-style-pizza-pans/)) and am waiting for that to arrive, but in the meantime I thought I'd simply try cooking it in my Lodge Iron Skillet.

Anyway, I have a question on the process for how you're supposed to make the dough with the results on those formulations. Ahamric posted the steps of what he did in reply 171 : http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=8247.msg170815#msg170815 (http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=8247.msg170815#msg170815)

After he mixed the dry ingredients with the water and had a lump of dough, he said he oiled it and sealed it in a container for 5 hours. This seems to perhaps be what Norma does every time she makes an attempt also? What is this step for? Is it simply to let the dough rise?

Then he moved it to the pizza pan which was coated with the corn oil. Stretched it out to fit the pan and covered it for an hour and 15 minutes. I assume this also is to let the dough rise?

I'm new to this whole cooking with yeast thing, so I'm just wondering if I can get some clarification on what the process should be? It seems like I could just roll out the dough immediately after I make it and let it rise in the pan. Or let it rise in the mixer bowl first, and then roll it out and put it in the pan and cook it. Is it necessary to let it rise twice?

Also, I bought some Instant Dry Yeast. Does the rising process change if I use Active dry yeast in my formulation instead?

Sorry for the noob post. Once I figure out what I'm supposed to do, I'm eager to post some pictures of my attempt!

Title: Re: Jets pizza
Post by: robear00 on April 29, 2015, 12:04:57 PM
Ok, I did a search of topics and it doesn't seem like anyone is talking about this recipe.  If so, my apologies for missing it. 

Anyway, what I am trying to do is kind of combine the best of both worlds.  If anyone has tried it in the Midwest, there is a place called Casey's General Store that makes a pretty good breakfast pizza.  I've been able to make my own version of it and I have friends from South Dakota that say it is VERY close.  What I what to do is turn it into a Detroit deep dish and put the ingredients on a Jets-style dough.  I plan on trying a couple of the recipes here, but was wondered about something:

Considering all of the talk that has been in this topic about weights and measures, has anybody just walked into a Jets and just asked to buy a ball of dough?  The location by my house lets me do this and charges $3.50/ea. (cashiers, especially new ones, will give me a weird look, but the managers take care of it well), but I've never done the deep dish style as I've never had a pan for it (ordering one soon). 

At any rate, I'm still very new into making dough as mine is typically store bought, so I'm not sure if there would be any useful information in this buying the dough.  I would think, if anything, to test the pan with their dough to figure out the crunch factor.
Title: Re: Jets pizza
Post by: daveJay on April 29, 2015, 01:54:57 PM
I like that idea! My dough is never as crunchy as jets, so that would be a good way to see if it's my recipe or my form of cooking it.

What's the recipe for your breakfast pizza you like out of curiosity?
Title: Re: Jets pizza
Post by: robear00 on April 29, 2015, 02:06:10 PM
I do a variation on Casey's General Store's recipe.  Looking through the board, today was the first I've heard of thinning Velveeta, so I'm going to try that.  Sausage and eggs are the same, but I use a simple candied bacon.  I coat strips in dark brown sugar and pepper, then bake them.  Let them rest for a bit, then cut into bits.
Title: Re: Jets pizza
Post by: segfault on January 11, 2016, 12:33:49 AM
Hello again!

So it's been some time since I last posted.

I have been using the dough formulation i previously posted for a year and some change now, but recently got motivated to dial it in.  I've been eating more jets lately and realized the dough i was making was much too thick, and not crunchy enough.

I re-read the entire forum and decided to take advise and reduce the TF.  I also decided to use a high gluten flour. 

I ordered http://www.kingarthurflour.com/shop/items/king-arthur-sir-lancelot-unbleached-hi-gluten-flour-3-lb

I was excited to try it out.  While preparing the ingredients for the dough, i accidentally used 10g sugar [see attached dough calc toll] , but my results were outstanding, i am very happy with the results.

Here was my process :

Weigh all ingredients in separate containers.

Add water to mixer bowl
Add all ingredients minus flour
Add Flour

Mix on "Low" for 2 minutes to incorporate
Mix on "4" (med-low) for 8 minutes

Add maybe 3Tbs corn oil to blue steel pan
form dough to pan

Proof in oven (@100deg) for 2 hour with damp dish rag covering
remove from oven, let stand for 4 hours with damp dish rag covering

Preheat oven to 550 deg
Prepare pizza with sauce
Add about 6 to 7 oz cheese
toppings to choice

cook for 7-8 min, middle rack
cover with foil and cook additional 3 min

remove, let rest, then transfer to metal rack.  let cool, and then transfer to cutting board.  Cut and enjoy  :pizza:

My results were fantastic, the dough had the "crunch" i was after, best attempt to date! :)  Next attempt i'll try and record the measurements for how much corn oil and sauce i'm adding.



Title: Re: Jets pizza
Post by: hotsawce on January 13, 2016, 07:00:19 PM
Great looking pie! Your post is timely, as your recipe is exactly the direction I was moving for my Detroit style. I wanted to decrease the hydration out of the 70s (I was getting a similar rise with a lower hydration) and increase my thickness factor. Now I just need to dial in my bake to get that "crunch" as well. I use Lloyd pans, which bake a little bit darker. For me, I think 500 to 525 is going to give me a nice golden brown
Title: Re: Jets pizza
Post by: hotsawce on January 18, 2016, 12:53:21 PM
tried a 0.15 TF pie and, while it looked nice the way the cheese set up on the edge thought it was a little doughy
Title: Re: Jets pizza
Post by: HansB on January 18, 2016, 01:30:27 PM
My last few were .117 TF or 265g for 8X10, 530g for 10X14. Seems to be my favorite so far.
Title: Re: Jets pizza
Post by: hotsawce on January 18, 2016, 02:09:22 PM
Yes, my favorite has been between Grandma thickness factor and sicilian, maybe around 0.125

My last few were .117 TF or 265g for 8X10, 530g for 10X14. Seems to be my favorite so far.
Title: Re: Jets pizza
Post by: segfault on January 24, 2016, 11:52:23 PM
Thanks, i'll adjust the TF for my next attempt!
Title: Re: Jets pizza
Post by: Pete-zza on January 26, 2016, 07:45:43 PM
I spent a good part of yesterday and today revisiting this thread. Much of the time was spent fixing as many broken links as I could, including finding replacement versions of several links at the Wayback Machine. Many of the changes are reflected in Reply 26 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=8247.msg118161#msg118161 (http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=8247.msg118161#msg118161) and also in the many EDITS to that post. That is the post that I have been using to contain pretty much everything I know about the Jet's pizzas. There are still some links that are no longer operative and for which I could not find replacements or substitutes. Fortunately, for the most part they were incidental and not at the heart of the matter at hand.

This thread was a real challenge for many reasons. For example, when I first started my investigations into the Jet's pizza, I was given incorrect pan size information by an employee of a Jet's store that I called seeking the pan sizes. So I was off to a rocky start right at the outset. It took quite a while before the owner of a now-defunct company that sold lids to Jet's gave me the pan sizes that Jet's was actually using. Then there was a major issue surrounding the pans themselves. The company in West Virginia that sold blue steel pans to just about all of the Detroit area operators that made square pan pizzas ceased the manufacture of the pans. So, companies like P.A. Products and Northern Pizza Supply no longer had the pans, although they scrambled to find substitutes. Most of those pans were no longer of blue steel. Out of desperation, Jet's sought out a manufacturer to make new pans for them. Eventually, companies like Lloyd Pans, the owner of Pizzatools.com, came out with its own Detroit style pans with the PSTK coating. But there are still a few companies out there with blue steel or equivalent pans but one should be sure that they are of the right sizes.

Then there was the issue of recipes and Jet's clone pizzas made by our members not meeting the Jet's Nutrition information. I spent a lot of time on this issue. One of the major issues was the amount of mozzarella cheese Jet's used on its small square cheese pizzas with six slices. I selected that pizza for analysis because it is the simplest square pizza that Jet's makes. Through my own research and with the help of other members, I had previously determined that the source of the Jet's mozzarella cheese was Grande. So I knew all of the nutrients for that cheese and their amounts. One of our members who tried to help me by buying some Jet's small square pizzas for us to analyze was told by a Jet's employee that they used five ounces of mozzarella cheese for the small square pizza; another employee at a later date said six ounces. But the amount of Cholesterol for either five or six ounces of Grande mozzarella cheese was far less than called for in the Jet's Nutrition information. I and the other member tried to resolve this matter with Jet's itself, through emails and telephone calls, but got no satisfaction or resolution. I decided then that I could not continue with my attempts to reverse engineer and clone the Jet's pizzas. The numbers just didn't jibe.

Now I know what the problem was. I believe that the Jet's Nutrition information was faulty. And it was purely out of curiosity that I recently decided to take a look at the current Jet's Nutrition information. And, lo and behold, they changed (lowered) the Cholesterol numbers. Now, the Cholesterol numbers support the use of about six ounces of the Grande mozzarella cheese. There are still some issues relating to the weights of the small square pizzas that Jet's sells, so I am still not confident of some of the Jet's numbers.

I also now believe that I have identified the source of the flour that Jet's uses for its square pizzas. I am pretty confident that it is Bay State Milling. I say this because that company was mentioned in the Allergens section of the Jet's website, as I noted in EDIT 10 of Reply 26 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=8247.msg118161#msg118161 (http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=8247.msg118161#msg118161). As I understand it, the flours that Jet's uses are custom tailored to Jet's requirements so they may not be available at the retail level or even from major commercial flour millers and marketers. Were I to hazard a guess, I would say that based on the Jet's Nutrition information, and especially the Dietary Fiber and Carbohydrate numbers, that the flour that Jet's is using is likely a bread flour. Based on what I found through my work in this thread, it would be unbleached (or maybe bleached) and unbromated but malted and enriched. I doubt that a high gluten flour is used for the Jet's square pizzas. But it is quite possible that a high gluten flour is used for its round NY style pizzas.

What may come as a big surprise to our members is that the dough that Jet's uses to make its square pizzas has very little sugar and very little salt. This is based on inputs by a former Jet's employee who posted on the forum but also supported by the Jet's Nutrition information. As somewhat a confirmation of the low salt level, see the Jet's report at Reply 11 at https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=23495.msg248636#msg248636 (https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=23495.msg248636#msg248636). I also believe that the proper thickness factor to use is 0.15. Jet's previously used ADY with warm water and I assume that has not changed. There is also no oil in the dough although there is oil placed in the pans that gets absorbed into the finished crust. That is reflected in the Jet's Nutrition information. The oil itself is corn oil.

As for the sauce, we already know that Stanislaus supplies the basic tomatoes for making the Jet's pizza sauce, to which Jet's adds water and a spice packet. I would say that just about any of the Stanislaus Full Red or similar canned tomatoes that are crushed, that is, without filets or dice or solid tomato pieces, will work. I think that some of the Stanislaus Saporito products will also work. And because Jet's adds water to the tomatoes, it is quite possible that the tomatoes are concentrated.

I am still studying the Jet's Nutrition information but I hope soon to post a Jet's clone dough formulation for our members to consider. However, I should hasten to point out that the clone dough formulation itself is only a part of the story. The type of pans now used by Jet's and the use of a conveyor oven with its particular operating temperatures and bake times, especially for the three different size pans Jet's uses for its square pizzas, will also dictate the nature of the final results. So, some experimentation will most likely be required.

If there are any matters that I missed, please feel free to bring them to my attention.

Peter


Title: Re: Jets pizza
Post by: Pete-zza on January 27, 2016, 02:15:36 PM
After my last post, I thought that it might be useful to get a firmer grip on the pan sizes used by Jet's, or at least the sizes they used at the time this thread was started.

So, for this leg of my journey, I decided to check the websites of the two companies, Northern Pizza Equipment (Northern) and P.A. Products, both of whom major suppliers of blue steel pans to the Detroit-area square pizza trade up to the time that the manufacturer of those pans closed shop, and also the website of the later entry, Lloyd Pans, with its PSTK Detroit style pans. As previously mentioned, and as discussed in some detail earlier in this thread, I was told by the former supplier of lids to Jet's that the Jet's pan sizes were 8" x 10", 10" x 14", and 12" x 17". When I saw that Northern did not have an 8" x 10" pan, but rather only an 8" x 8" pan in the smaller size, and that the P.A. Products website showed all three sizes of pans, all of which were blue steel pans, I decided to call both companies. At Northern (see http://www.northernpizzaequipment.com/rectangular-pans-lids.html (http://www.northernpizzaequipment.com/rectangular-pans-lids.html)), the 8" x 8" pan size was confirmed, even though the photo appears to show a rectangular pan (most likely a stock photo was used), but I was told that they could get me an 8" x 10" pan if I wanted that size. At P.A. Products, I was told that they no longer sold the blue steel pans even though they are still shown in their online catalog.

At both Northern and P.A. Products, I asked the sales reps why the blue steel pans were discontinued. They mentioned the demise of the original source in West Virginia that closed shop but they also mentioned that there were potentially toxicity issues with the blue steel pans (e.g., rusting problems) and also that crud could accumulate in the corners of the pans and pose health concerns. On this latter point, when I went to the Lloyd Pans website, at http://www.lloydpans.com/standard-pans/pizza-tools/rectangular-pans-and-disks/detroit-style-deep-dish#gsc.tab=0 (http://www.lloydpans.com/standard-pans/pizza-tools/rectangular-pans-and-disks/detroit-style-deep-dish#gsc.tab=0), I saw that there were so-called Alternate Detroit Style Pizza Pans with rounded interior corners. Whether that is why Lloyd Pans offers that particular pan version I cannot say. But, most notably, of the three companies, only Lloyd Pans (and its Pizzatools.com affiliate) offers the three pan sizes discussed above. And, no other sizes, whether it is 8" x 8" or 10" x 10", or whatever. However, I should mention that Lloyd sells square Sicilian style pans although I have not done comparison of those pans with their Detroit style pans. As is well known, the Lloyd Detroit style pans are sold by the Detroit Style Pizza Company.

Not completely satisfied by the above analysis, I decided to call several Jet's stores in the Dallas Metroplex and to ask questions that were calculated to tell me the sizes of the pans they are using and maybe even some dough ball weights. Most of the employees I spoke with seemed to be young males. I told them that I was considering buying pizzas from them but that I could not tell the sizes of their pizzas because the Jet's home website did not give sizes for their pizzas. Not surprisingly, they did not have a lot of answers to my questions. In one case, the employee I spoke with told me that the small pan was 8" x 10", but in a couple other instances, I was told the small pan was 10" x 10". When I commented that the photos of the "square" pizzas that I saw on the Internet showed one side longer than the other, I was told that that was so, but no effort was made to correct the apparent misstatements. Possibly, when pizzas are sold as "square" pizzas, to them that must mean that the pans are square. But, more importantly, in two cases, when I probed about the weights of their "square" pizzas, I was told that the dough ball weight for the small pizza (irrespective of the pan size I was told) was 12 ounces, and 21 ounces for the large square (there is no medium size). In one case, there was also an x-large pizza but it appears that there are also ways of combining the other sizes to offer a so-called "party" size. The one place where there was little confusion was in the number of pieces in each size pizza: 6 pieces for the small, 10 pieces for the large, and 15 pieces for the x-large. This was important information because it squares (no pun intended) with the Nutrition information given at the Jet's official website.

What is most significant from the above exercise is the dough ball weights that were mentioned. Earlier in this thread, a former employee of Jet's stated that the three dough ball weights used by Jet's were 12 ounces, 21 ounces and 31 ounces. He did not mention the corresponding pan sizes but, if I am correct, they are the three pan sizes mentioned above (i.e., 8" x 10", 10" x 14" and 12" x 17"). And if one calculates the thickness factors for those three cases, you get 0.15 in each case. And because of the linearity and direct proportionality of the calculations, with no squaring of radii as is the case for round pizzas, that means that the 0.15 thickness factor can be used for any size of rectangular or square pan used to make a Jet's clone. However, the results may be a bit different if the pans are straight-sided as opposed to sloping-sided.

Peter
Title: Re: Jets pizza
Post by: Pete-zza on January 29, 2016, 02:40:41 PM
Doing some simple calculations and using the expanded dough calculating tool at http://www.pizzamaking.com/expanded-calculator.html (http://www.pizzamaking.com/expanded-calculator.html), I have set forth below a proposed dough formulation for use in connection with an 8" x 10" sloping-sided pan. The amount of dough is 12 ounces. Several comments will follow:

Flour (100%):
Water (65.2%):
ADY (0.80%):
Salt (1.18125%):
Sugar (0.84375%):
Total (168.025%):
202.47 g  |  7.14 oz | 0.45 lbs
132.01 g  |  4.66 oz | 0.29 lbs
1.62 g | 0.06 oz | 0 lbs | 0.43 tsp | 0.14 tbsp
2.39 g | 0.08 oz | 0.01 lbs | 0.43 tsp | 0.14 tbsp
1.71 g | 0.06 oz | 0 lbs | 0.43 tsp | 0.14 tbsp
340.2 g | 12 oz | 0.75 lbs | TF = N/A
Note: Dough (12 ounces) is for a sloping-sided 8" x 10" pan; nominal thickness factor = 0.15 [12/(8 x 10)]; no bowl residue compensation but a value of 1.5% is suggested; while there is no oil in the dough, there is corn oil added to the pan and the dough ball might be coated with corn oil.

I will begin my comments by saying that I came up with the above dough formulation by doing volume-to-weight conversions for the water, salt, yeast, (ADY), and sugar ingredients that were set forth earlier in this thread by member jets147 who indicated at the time that he was a Jet's employee familiar with the way that the dough was made and managed at Jet's. Once I came up with the baker's percent version of the dough formulation, I tested that formulation against the Jet's nutrition information as given at its website at http://jetspizza.com/nutrition/category/13 (http://jetspizza.com/nutrition/category/13). For this test, I decided to use a small Jet's square cheese pizza. I selected a cheese pizza because it is the most basic and simplest pizza that Jet's makes, inasmuch as it comprises only dough, cheese and pizza sauce. But this meant that I had to make certain assumptions as to the weights of the cheese and pizza sauce that would be used with the dough to make a pizza.

In my case, I used six ounces of low-moisture part-skim mozzarella cheese from Grande and about four ounces of pizza sauce made from a watered down tomato base from Stanislaus, for a total unbaked pizza weight of 22 ounces. I selected Grande and Stanislaus since they are ones that Jet's used when I researched the matter some years ago. More recently, I saw reference to Bay State Milling (BSM) in the allergens section of the Jet's website that leads me to believe that BSM is the supplier to Jet's of the flours used to make its pizzas. BSM has many flours in its flour portfolio (see the Bay State Milling entry at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=40212.0 (http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=40212.0)) but, unfortunately, it does not publish the specs for its flours. Maybe having those specs might have helped but from my prior research I was given to understand that the flours used by Jet's are milled just for them and packaged exclusively for them. So, for purposes of my analysis of the Jet's nutrition information, I used a standard bread flour that seemed to be close to what Jet's may be using. Like Jet's flour, it was bleached, malted, unbromated, and enriched.

But after going through the analysis, and while I am not completely giving up on a bread flour with the right numbers, I now tend to think that Jet's may be using a weaker flour, one that may be closer to an all-purpose flour, but one that may be a stronger (e.g., higher ash content) than a typical all purpose flour. Otherwise, the flour may not work well with a hydration of around 65%. What led me to this alternative possibility is the high Carbohydrates number and the low Dietary Fiber number in the Jet's nutrition information. There are also Carbohydrates in the cheese (a small amount--about a gram per ounce) and in the pizza sauce, and there is Dietary Fiber in the tomatoes, but even when I took these numbers into account, I had a hard time achieving the Carbohydrate and Dietary Fiber numbers in Jet's latest nutrition information. I only got closer when I used the nutrition numbers for a weaker flour with a higher Carbohydrate number and a lower Dietary Fiber number and a tomato product with a high Carbohydrate number and a low Dietary Fiber number. The above said, it is important to keep in mind that Jet's, or any other pizza chain for that matter, is not required by the FDA to produce nutrition numbers for its pizzas. Most do it because of the increasing demand of consumers to know what it is that they are eating. But that doesn't mean the that nutrition information is always accurate or correct. As I previously noted, Jet's significantly lowered the Cholesterol number in its recent nutrition information from its prior value. Whether they did that because I raised the issue with Jet's I cannot say.

But one thing that seemed to be supported by my analysis is the amounts of salt and sugar in the Jet's dough. Both of the numbers for the salt and sugar in the above dough formulation appear credible, and I'd like to think their values are intentional since there are good reasons or logical explanations for the small amounts of salt and sugar as used in the formulation, especially when taken into account with the use of ADY, warm water, and the fermentation protocol. I can go into the reasons for those who may be interested. But I should also add that the amount of ADY is also credible in the context of the dough life cycle used at Jet's, where the dough made each morning is for the dinner crowd that day and held in the cooler for the next day's lunch, with any leftover dough at that point being discarded (a least according to Jet's rules).

With respect to the hydration calculation, I used a conversion of one cup of water equals 8.15 ounces by weight. That is a standard conversion factor I use even though technically a cup of water weighs 8.345 ounces. Most people don't measure out water carefully or correctly enough to get that weight. To confirm my conversion number, I did several weighings of two quarts of water on my kitchen scale and then calculated the water on a cup basis. It was at about 8.15 ounces.

But the amount of oil is a bit trickier. As previously noted, there is no oil (corn oil) used in the Jet's dough, but there is corn oil in the pan. But once I took into account all of the sources of fats, the only way that I could achieve the high Total Fats number in the Jet's nutrition information was to assume that there was about eight teaspoons of corn oil used in the pan. That seems high to me but I recall that Pizza Hut used to use considerably more oil in its pans than my number suggested, even when equalizing the pan areas.

How the dough made using the above formulation is made and managed is important if one is trying to clone a Jet's pizza. Member jets147 provided some guidance on these matters, as follows:

after put into the pans, depending on the temp of store it takes 30 mins to 1 hour for the dough top rise. (make sure ur pans have corn oil on them)after that it u must "press the dough out" this processes is basically makeing the dough fit to the pan corner to corner. once pressed out it takes about 45 mins for it rise again. now, it can be more then 45 mins if u want. or less. more time u wait the fluffier the dough will be.

The above instructions are in line with what I read in articles about Jet's on the subject. However, I recently saw a video on the same matter, as noted below. But what is important is that the ADY be added dry to the mixer bowl and that the water added to the bowl be warm. It has to be warm enough to rehydrate the ADY. Most yeast producers suggest a water temperature of around 120-130 degrees F when rehydrating ADY added to the flour. Of course, using all warm water will usually mean a finished dough temperature that is likely to be close to 90 degrees F. But that high finished dough temperature is critical to the method of preparing the Jet's dough. As part of the dough making process, I suggest that members also view, or view again, the video that was referenced in Reply 26 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=8247.msg118161#msg118161 (http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=8247.msg118161#msg118161). For convenience, I have included that video in this post also. Note, also the use of the Somerset dough roller in the first video where it looks like the sheeted skins are put into dark pans. I did not see the use of lids such as described in Reply 77 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=8247.msg137183#msg137183, but such use might be helpful for the reasons noted in Reply 77.

Finally, I added another Jet's video of August 2014 to show the flour bags, pizza sauce cans and boxes, etc.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OI9VFItB69I

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5lxLBp4-8dE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2GkqvowIEs

Peter


Title: Re: Jets pizza
Post by: Pete-zza on January 30, 2016, 03:53:31 PM
This post is about the Jet's Jet Fuel pizza sauce.

Some while ago, at Reply 159 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=8247.msg164047#msg164047 (http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=8247.msg164047#msg164047), member segfault indicated that he was interested in being able to replicate the Jet's Jet Fuel pizza sauce. Unfortunately, that will be very difficult to do inasmuch as Jet's uses a pizza sauce seasoning prepared for them by Castella Imports (http://www.castella.com/ (http://www.castella.com/)) and whose ingredients are not disclosed anywhere by Castella. What we do know, based on searching the document at https://web.archive.org/web/20090730144935/http://www.thebulkgourmet.com/catalogs/food_kitchen_laundry.pdf (https://web.archive.org/web/20090730144935/http://www.thebulkgourmet.com/catalogs/food_kitchen_laundry.pdf), is that the pouch of pizza sauce seasoning used by Jet's weighs 26.7 ounces. That would not have been of much help until I stumbled across a YouTube video that showed how Jet's makes its pizza sauce. That is the first video shown below. As will be seen from that video, eight cans of Jet Fuel pizza sauce are mixed in a mixer along with 3 1/2 cans of water, and one pouch of the Castella seasoning. You will note the name and logo of Jet's on the pouch. Each of the eight cans of Jet Fuel has a net weight of 6 pounds, 11 ounces. That number is shown at about 2:20 in the second Jet's video shown in my last post, and is important because that is a weight that Stanislaus uses for most of its large cans of crushed or pureed canned tomato products. So, while we may not be able to come up with the seasoning ingredients, we may be able to identify which Stanislaus tomatoes are candidates for the Jet Fuel sauce.

After viewing the first video shown below, I decided to see if there was any information on the Jet's pizza sauce at the Nutritionix website (https://www.nutritionix.com/ (https://www.nutritionix.com/)), which is a website that gives nutritional information on a large number of food products, including pizza. It was there that I saw for the first time that there was nutrition information on the Jet's pizzas, but also for a pizza sauce sold or offered as a side item. I tracked that product back at the Jet's website at http://jetspizza.com/nutrition/category/14 (http://jetspizza.com/nutrition/category/14). I wasn't sure if that side pizza sauce was the same as what is used on Jet's pizzas, but I came to believe that such was the case when I found another Jet's YouTube that discussed the freshness of the Jet's products, including its pizza sauce, which was shown in little tubs that are to be sold or given to patrons as sides. That video is the second video shown below.

Using all of the above information, I then set about to try to decipher the side pizza sauce to determine its composition from a nutritional standpoint so that I could compare it with the various Stanislaus tomato products disclosed at the Stanislaus website in the form of Nutrition Facts. As part of this exercise, I had to determine the weight of the tomatoes and also the weight of the Castella pizza sauce seasoning as percents of the total weight of the sauce as described in the first video shown below. I also had to normalize all of the serving sizes and caloric values used in the Nutrition Facts for the various Stanislaus tomato products so that I get the most accurate comparisons. It took me two pages of calculations to do this. But when I was done with the calculations, and compared them against the various Stanislaus tomato products in the 6 pound, 11 ounce size cans (all of which describe the tomatoes simply as Vine-ripened fresh tomatoes, salt and naturally-derived citric acid).

I found three Stanislaus tomato products that satisfied my numbers. And, interestingly, the pertinent numbers were virtually identical for all three products. The matches weren't perfect but I somewhat expected that since I was working with Jet's numbers that were all rounded, not the actual, more precise numbers. This is standard practice in the industry but it makes it more difficult to analyze. Also, it is possible that the Castella pizza sauce seasonings may have affected some of the nutrient values even though seasonings often confer little in the way of nutrition. As it turns out, I calculated that the Castella seasonings represented about 2.1% of the total weight of the sauce. By contrast, the tomatoes represented 69.57% of the total weight of the sauce (with the rest being water).

These are the three Stanislaus products that best matched my numbers:

Full Red Concentrated Crushed All Purpose Tomatoes: http://www.stanislausfoodproducts.com/_pdfs/Full-Red-Concentrated-Crushed-Tomatoes.pdf (http://www.stanislausfoodproducts.com/_pdfs/Full-Red-Concentrated-Crushed-Tomatoes.pdf)

Full Red Pizza Sauce: http://www.stanislausfoodproducts.com/_pdfs/Full-Red-Pizza-Sauce.pdf (http://www.stanislausfoodproducts.com/_pdfs/Full-Red-Pizza-Sauce.pdf)

Full Red Extra Heavy Tomato Puree: http://www.stanislausfoodproducts.com/_pdfs/Full-Red-Puree.pdf (http://www.stanislausfoodproducts.com/_pdfs/Full-Red-Puree.pdf)

At this point, I am inclined to rule out the Stanislaus Saporito products that I earlier thought might be likely candidates for the Jet Fuel sauce.

Here are the two videos:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uZaDl3cmEh4 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uZaDl3cmEh4)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=42J4DmYV84I (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=42J4DmYV84I)

Peter
Title: Re: Jets pizza
Post by: Pete-zza on February 02, 2016, 11:05:32 AM
Over the last day or so I have been researching flours to see if I can find one that has a decent amount of protein and that satisfies the Jet's nutrition information for a small square cheese pizza with 12 ounces of dough, six ounces of low-moisture part-skim mozzarella cheese (Grande) and four ounces of pizza sauce. I concluded that for a flour to satisfy the Jet's nutrition information, it would have to have a high Carbohydrate value and a fairly low Dietary Fiber value.

By way of background, most high gluten flours and bread flours have about 70-73 grams of Carbohydrates per 100 gram serving. That number tends to go down as the protein content goes up. An all purpose flour typically has a Carbohydrate number that is higher than that of a high gluten flour or bread flour. This pattern can be seen in the following King Arthur document that I retrieved from the Wayback Machine after KA stopped making its detailed flour specs public:

http://web.archive.org/web/20060311133549/http://www.kingarthurflour.com/stuff/contentmgr/files/528fa553a218e1e5566108ef6e4c55d9/miscdocs/Nutritional%20Analysis.pdf (http://web.archive.org/web/20060311133549/http://www.kingarthurflour.com/stuff/contentmgr/files/528fa553a218e1e5566108ef6e4c55d9/miscdocs/Nutritional%20Analysis.pdf)

As can also be seen from the above document, when the protein content of a flour goes up, its Dietary Fiber number also goes up, and when the protein content goes down, its Dietary Fiber number goes down. I might mention that the Sir Gallahad flour in the above document is the same as the all purpose flour sold at retail as the King Arthur all purpose flour (KAAP) and that the Special flour in the above document is the same as the bread flour sold at retail as the King Arthur bread flour (KABF).

In my search of flours that might satisfy the Jet's nutrition information, I came across another KA flour that has an above average Carbohydrate number for an all purpose flour. That flour is the KA Organic Select Artisan all purpose flour, with a protein content of 11.3% and with a Carbohydrate number of 76, which is far greater than most flours that can be used to make pizza dough. The specs for that flour can be seen at http://www.kingarthurflour.com/shop-img/labels/1443556132815.pdf (http://www.kingarthurflour.com/shop-img/labels/1443556132815.pdf) and also in a bit more detail in the following KA document that I also salvaged from the Wayback Machine:

http://web.archive.org/web/20061211051235/http://www.kingarthurflour.com/stuff/contentmgr/files/528fa553a218e1e5566108ef6e4c55d9/miscdocs/KAF%20Organic%20Nutritional%20Analysis.pdf (http://web.archive.org/web/20061211051235/http://www.kingarthurflour.com/stuff/contentmgr/files/528fa553a218e1e5566108ef6e4c55d9/miscdocs/KAF%20Organic%20Nutritional%20Analysis.pdf)

By my calculations, the KA Organic Select Artisan flour would come quite close to satisfying the Jet's nutrition numbers but for the Dietary Fiber number, which is on the high side. On the plus side, the KA Organic select Artisan flour is often sold at retail (I saw it the other day at my local Wal-Mart) but usually in a small bag (two pounds) with a big price (close to $5).

I was also looking for a high ash value in the flours I studied. High ash numbers tend to allow for higher hydration values. The ash values for the KA flours can be seen in this document that I also salvaged from the Wayback Machine:

http://web.archive.org/web/20051027032834/http://www.kingarthurflour.com/stuff/contentmgr/files/4a1eb4311b0be08b2b590b39ac3f2c77/download/Primary%20sell%20sheet.pdf (http://web.archive.org/web/20051027032834/http://www.kingarthurflour.com/stuff/contentmgr/files/4a1eb4311b0be08b2b590b39ac3f2c77/download/Primary%20sell%20sheet.pdf)

As can be seen from the above document, the range of ash values for the KA flours covered in the document is 0.48-0.52. That is a very typical range.

I was about ready to call it a day when I decided to check my personal files where I store things like copies of flour spec sheets. It was then that I stumbled upon two spec sheets from Pendleton Mills, now renamed Grain Craft. The spec sheets are for the Pendleton Power flour and the Pendleton Mondako flour. As between the two flours, the Power flour struck me as coming closest to the Jet's nutrition information. Here are the relevant numbers for that flour for a standard 100-gram sample:

Protein: 13% +/- 0.3%* (Pendleton/Grain Craft calls this a high gluten flour)
Carbohydrate: 77.9 grams
Dietary Fiber: 2.2 grams
Absorption: 65%
Ash: 0.55% +/- 0.03%
*Note: General Mills would put this protein value in the Mid-High gluten category, just above bread flour, and King Arthur would put it in the Medium High-Gluten category, also just above bread flour.

When I ran those numbers through my nutrition calculations, they came very close to the Jet's nutrition information for the small square cheese pizza. I might add that I had an exchange some time ago with Pendleton with respect to the high absorption value for the Power flour (65%) and I was told that that high absorption value was correct and was a major selling feature. In fact, here is the exact language from the Pendleton technical sales manager:

Per your research, your findings about 65% water absorption are correct and this is one of our selling points with Power Hi Gluten.

A lot of flours especially from Texas, California and Kansas have an average absorption of 60% which leaves us well ahead of the rest.  This means that 65% is the rated absorption level and from an operational stand point this can also be true. Depending on what kind of finished product the customer desires, Power Hi Gluten will perform according to water added at the bowl.


As a reminder, the hydration value in the dough formulation I set forth in Reply 194 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=8247.msg413711#msg413711 (http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=8247.msg413711#msg413711) is 65.2%.

After I had conducted the nutrition analysis, I did some further searching to see if I could find more on the Power flour. That search led me to a thread at the PMQ Think Tank where I found a post on the relative merits of the Power and Mondako flours as used to make pan pizzas. The thread can be seen at:

http://thinktank.pmq.com/threads/pfm-high-gluten-power-flour-vs-pfm-mondako-question-for-tom.14287/

So, it at least looks like a flour such as the Power flour can be used to make a clone of a Jet's pan pizza while also coming close to the Jet's nutrition information. So, if Bay State Milling is sourcing the flours to Jet's, they may also have access to a flour that has characteristics similar to the Power flour.

As a final comment, I should mention that I calculated the ranges for the Jet's Dietary Fiber and Sugars numbers since they were both rounded to 1 gram (a total of six grams in each case for the entire pizza). This is always an issue for very small numbers, but much less so than for large numbers, such as the Carbohydrate numbers that are reported to the nearest gram under FDA rules and regulations.

Peter


Title: Re: Jets pizza
Post by: Pete-zza on February 02, 2016, 01:35:50 PM
I forgot to mention in my last post that the KA Organic Select Artisan all purpose flour is unbleached, unbromated and unenriched.

The Pendleton Power flour is available as either bleached or unbleached and is enriched. It also uses ascorbic acid as a dough conditioner. However, instead of using a cereal source of the amylase enzyme, such as barley malt, it uses a fungal amylase. This was confirmed by Pendleton itself at Reply 58 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=34845.msg348376#msg348376 (http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=34845.msg348376#msg348376).

I also forgot that I had another discussion about the Power flour's absorption value with a specialist at Pendleton. The details of that discussion are given at Reply 125 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=14928.msg151643;topicseen#msg151643 (http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=14928.msg151643;topicseen#msg151643).

It still isn't entirely clear whether Jet's is using a bleached or unbleached flour. In Reply 26 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=8247.msg118161#msg118161 (http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=8247.msg118161#msg118161), I cited a catalog at https://web.archive.org/web/20090730144935/http://www.thebulkgourmet.com/catalogs/food_kitchen_laundry.pdf (https://web.archive.org/web/20090730144935/http://www.thebulkgourmet.com/catalogs/food_kitchen_laundry.pdf) that, at about page 61, states that the flour used by Jet's is unbleached. That catalog was created in August, 2009. However, in the video referenced in Reply 26, which was published in September, 2010, there is a picture of the flour bag for the square pizza and that bag says that the flour is bleached. Also, as noted in EDIT 9 at Reply 26, one Jet's store made pizza for a school district that used a dough that was bleached. In the Jet's Biz Spotlight video, which was published in August, 2014 and was referenced in Reply 194, there is no indication on the flour bag shown in that video of whether the flour is bleached or unbleached. I suppose this is all moot because whether the flour that Jet's uses in bleached or unbleached, that will not affect the nutrition calculations.

Peter
Title: Re: Jets pizza
Post by: segfault on February 05, 2016, 01:16:41 AM
pete!  these posts are going to take me months to digest!  :pizza:  but i look forward to it :)
Title: Re: Jets pizza
Post by: Pete-zza on February 06, 2016, 08:39:22 AM
pete!  these posts are going to take me months to digest!  :pizza:  but i look forward to it :)
segfault,

A good part of what I have written on the Jet's pizza is to create an archive or repository all in one place for all of my research on the subject. That archive is much better than my files with scribblings and notes and papers and folders all over the place. Writing also forces me to more clearly compose and organize my thoughts.

The most important thing for you is the dough formulation I posted and trying to find a flour that will work well in the formulation. You will also want to find a suitable low moisture part skim mozzarella cheese and a suitable tomato product to make the pizza sauce. Then it comes down to using the right pan with the right amount of oil and finding the best way to bake your pizza in a home oven rather than a conveyor oven such as used by Jet's. That is not the easiest thing to do.

I still have a few open issues to work on, one of which I recently made the subject of an email to Jet's. I have learned not to hold my breath about getting a response, so some follow-up may be necessary.

Peter
Title: Re: Jets pizza
Post by: hotsawce on February 06, 2016, 02:30:30 PM
With all the information on Jets, does anyone know what temperature/time Jets is running their ovens at?
Title: Re: Jets pizza
Post by: Pete-zza on February 06, 2016, 03:21:27 PM
With all the information on Jets, does anyone know what temperature/time Jets is running their ovens at?
Lou,

That topic is one that I have under consideration and was planning to discuss at some point, but it has been discussed by a couple of members before in this thread. I should be able to find the information for you. However, from what I can tell, most Jet's stores use something like the WOW Middleby-Marshall conveyor oven to bake their pizzas. It seems that there are two or three stacks, and it is possible that the small square pizzas are baked at one level and the larger square pizzas are baked at another level because of the need for a longer bake for the larger size pizzas. Supposedly the WOW ovens are more energy efficient and can bake the pizzas faster than most other conveyor ovens (and more efficiently from an energy use standpoint). You can see what one of the Jet's WOW ovens looks like at http://www.naplesnews.com/business/special-delivery-michigan-man-opening-southwest-florida-pizza-parlors-ep-401407525-330908851.html (http://www.naplesnews.com/business/special-delivery-michigan-man-opening-southwest-florida-pizza-parlors-ep-401407525-330908851.html). I believe that Jet's has always used conveyor ovens, and that it did not start with deck ovens. Jet's also went to newly designed pans once the old blue steel pans were no longer being manufactured. I do not know nor have I read who exactly is making the new pans for Jet's other than that they are in Michigan, as noted in the article quoted in Reply 57 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=8247.msg124604#msg124604 (http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=8247.msg124604#msg124604).

Peter
Title: Re: Jets pizza
Post by: Pete-zza on February 06, 2016, 03:58:33 PM
Lou,

Further to my last post, here are the earlier posts in this thread where oven temperatures and bake times were mentioned:

Reply 9 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=8247.msg74503#msg74503 (http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=8247.msg74503#msg74503) (545 degrees, conveyor runs from left to right, 8 minutes on top oven and 9 minutes on bottom oven)

Reply 121 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=8247.msg158443#msg158443 (http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=8247.msg158443#msg158443) (475 degrees on the top conveyor, and 432 degrees on the lower conveyor; the pizza in question went through the top conveyor)

Reply 135 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=8247.msg160384#msg160384 (http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=8247.msg160384#msg160384) (475 degrees, top conveyor, 8 minutes)

Peter
Title: Re: Jets pizza
Post by: norma427 on February 06, 2016, 04:53:46 PM
Peter,

When the employee video makes a Jet's pizza, as he likes one to be made, there sure doesn't look like there is a lot of oil in the pan, when he presses down on the dough.  Does Jet's use any cheddar in any of their other pizzas that you know of?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HRe5tEZLeMk

The pans at Jet's don't really look oily either, and the dough when pressing on the dough no oil can be seen. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dsFtOszhSmw

The dough balls looked oiled in the aluminum pan at the video you referenced at Reply 194 http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=8247.msg413893#msg413893


It can be seen how the dough balls look in the morning and also how the sauce is applied to a Jet's pizza at the link below.  The sides of the Jet's pans look dry on the sides.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OI9VFItB69I

It sounds like Jet's had a deck oven when they first started.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2GkqvowIEs

Norma
Title: Re: Jets pizza
Post by: norma427 on February 06, 2016, 05:02:09 PM
Another video where no oil can be seen in the pans.  The owner of the Jet's store said in the video that the Grande cheese used is provolone. ???

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hGIKbhRIQN0


Norma
Title: Re: Jets pizza
Post by: norma427 on February 06, 2016, 05:06:14 PM
Another video of employees making Jet's pizzas.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFu8i6GSn1I

Norma
Title: Re: Jets pizza
Post by: Pete-zza on February 06, 2016, 06:17:08 PM
Norma.

If you look at the Jet's pizza menu at http://jetspizza.com/menu/pizza (http://jetspizza.com/menu/pizza), which appears to be the same at its stores in the field, you will see only Premium Mozzarella Cheese for its Specialty Pizzas. However, cheddar cheese is available as a topping for the Build Your Own Pizza. You will see photos of some square pizzas under Pizza Selections but there are no links to those. Presumably, they use Premium Mozzarella Cheese. I checked out all of the Jet's food offerings and did not see any provolone. However, there are a lot of Jet's food offerings that do not say what is in them. But if you go to the Jet's Allergen Information, at http://jetspizza.com/pdf/allergeninformation-20151030.pdf (http://jetspizza.com/pdf/allergeninformation-20151030.pdf), you will see provolone. If I had to guess, I would say that the Jet's owner who mentioned provolone in respect of the Jet's pizzas misspoke.

You mentioned that Jet's may at some time used a deck oven. Can you tell me where in the video you referenced that is mentioned? It seems to me that I read somewhere that Jet's went directly to conveyor ovens, but I may be wrong.

The oil issue is one that is puzzling. The Jet's allergy information lists corn oil in the dough but unless Jet's is now using corn oil directly in the dough rather than coating it or exposing it to corn oil in the pans, the Jet's Total Fats numbers just don't add up. I also think that the Jet's Cholesterol numbers are still too high, even after Jet's lowered the Cholesterol number from the time that matter was brought to their attention. So, maybe the numbers are still wrong. Fats and cholesterol used in foods do not go away or diminish during baking from what I can tell.

Peter

Title: Re: Jets pizza
Post by: Pete-zza on February 06, 2016, 06:54:13 PM
While I was doing some more Jet's searches, I saw some sad news that Eugene Jetts, whose You Tube videos I had looked at over and over, passed away in December of 2014:

http://www.crainsdetroit.com/article/20141208/NEWS/141209873/jets-pizza-co-founder-eugene-jetts-jr-dies-at-60

In the article, I saw a name that surrounded familiar, Mary Kopietz, who was Gene Jetts sister. I checked my saved email files where I saw an email from her where she told me that the Jet's flour was not bromated. That was back in December of 2010.

Peter
Title: Re: Jets pizza
Post by: norma427 on February 06, 2016, 08:54:59 PM
Norma.

If you look at the Jet's pizza menu at http://jetspizza.com/menu/pizza (http://jetspizza.com/menu/pizza), which appears to be the same at its stores in the field, you will see only Premium Mozzarella Cheese for its Specialty Pizzas. However, cheddar cheese is available as a topping for the Build Your Own Pizza. You will see photos of some square pizzas under Pizza Selections but there are no links to those. Presumably, they use Premium Mozzarella Cheese. I checked out all of the Jet's food offerings and did not see any provolone. However, there are a lot of Jet's food offerings that do not say what is in them. But if you go to the Jet's Allergen Information, at http://jetspizza.com/pdf/allergeninformation-20151030.pdf (http://jetspizza.com/pdf/allergeninformation-20151030.pdf), you will see provolone. If I had to guess, I would say that the Jet's owner who mentioned provolone in respect of the Jet's pizzas misspoke.

You mentioned that Jet's may at some time used a deck oven. Can you tell me where in the video you referenced that is mentioned? It seems to me that I read somewhere that Jet's went directly to conveyor ovens, but I may be wrong.

The oil issue is one that is puzzling. The Jet's allergy information lists corn oil in the dough but unless Jet's is now using corn oil directly in the dough rather than coating it or exposing it to corn oil in the pans, the Jet's Total Fats numbers just don't add up. I also think that the Jet's Cholesterol numbers are still too high, even after Jet's lowered the Cholesterol number from the time that matter was brought to their attention. So, maybe the numbers are still wrong. Fats and cholesterol used in foods do not go away or diminish during baking from what I can tell.

Peter

Peter,

After I posted, I checked cheddar in Jet's pizzas on a Google search.  I saw on the Jet's Triple Cheese Turbo Stix that cheddar was one of the cheeses.  http://jetspizza.com/menu/sidekicks, in addition to the Build Your Own Pizza that you told me about. 

Maybe I am missing something, or don't understand right, but Eugene Jetts say at the beginning of this video that in 1978 there was a pizza oven in the back room in the party store.  After the party store became too busy things had to be changed to be able to make so more pizzas.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2GkqvowIEs

I agree that the oil issue is puzzling even though I don't understand how to do Nutritional Facts.  I think it would be tough to do all of the total fats in all of Jet's food products.  Do nutrition facts have to be redone every time something differently is done, like changing the dough formulation?

I know from experience if too much oil is put in one of those steel pans the dough wants to slide around, or at least I would think it would.

Norma
Title: Re: Jets pizza
Post by: Pete-zza on February 06, 2016, 09:35:31 PM
Norma,

On the matter of the oil used by Jet's in its pans, I saw the following comment at http://slice.seriouseats.com/archives/2012/02/chain-reaction-jets-pizza.html.

The crust had a deep golden hue with a nice bit of crispness to the very bottom. The amount of oil used to achieve such a result, though, does leave a noticeably greasy residue; this is a multiple-napkin slice. Once you're past that crunchy exterior, the rest of the crust is airy and buttery

With respect to the updating of nutrition information, Jet's is not required under law to do so but when it does, the information should be correct in my opinion. The last time Jet's revised its nutrition information was March, 2015.

Peter
Title: Re: Jets pizza
Post by: Pete-zza on February 06, 2016, 09:48:07 PM
Maybe I am missing something, or don't understand right, but Eugene Jetts say at the beginning of this video that in 1978 there was a pizza oven in the back room in the party store.  After the party store became too busy things had to be changed to be able to make so more pizzas.
Norma,

Conveyor ovens were around when the Jetts had the original store but we don't know what kind of oven they actually used. I read somewhere that they added a second oven to meet consumer demand when their pizzas became so popular. If I had to guess, I would say that the Jetts had to modify their dough formulation to adapt it to the conveyor ovens they eventually ended up using when they expanded their business.

Peter
Title: Re: Jets pizza
Post by: norma427 on February 06, 2016, 10:03:09 PM
Norma,

On the matter of the oil used by Jet's in its pans, I saw the following comment at http://slice.seriouseats.com/archives/2012/02/chain-reaction-jets-pizza.html.

The crust had a deep golden hue with a nice bit of crispness to the very bottom. The amount of oil used to achieve such a result, though, does leave a noticeably greasy residue; this is a multiple-napkin slice. Once you're past that crunchy exterior, the rest of the crust is airy and buttery

With respect to the updating of nutrition information, Jet's is not required under law to do so but when it does, the information should be correct in my opinion. The last time Jet's revised its nutrition information was March, 2015.

Peter

Peter,

I also saw that comment at Slice.  Thanks for telling me that Jet's does not have to update their nutrition information, but they did in March 2015.

Norma
Title: Re: Jets pizza
Post by: Pete-zza on February 07, 2016, 11:34:57 AM
I will elaborate later on the following comments I found by an allegedly former Jet's employee (Pizza guy) in an article about Jet's:

Pizza guy
Jets is a very generic commercialized version of the style, not to mention the amount if oil they pour in their pans, gross. With conveyour ovens thatís the only way they can achieve a crunch like that is to deep fry it, thatís why it is so heavy in stomach and canít eat a whole lot without feeling it. They also put pepperoni on top of cheese and sauce under cheeseÖTHAT IS NOT DETROIT STYLE PIZZA. Try some of the real deals like Buddyís, Detroit Style Pizza Company, Via 313 and few others that make a true detroit style. Light and airy inside and crispy outside baked in deck ovens with a 10th of the oil used by Jets, I know because Iíve worked at Jets and no people from some authentic detroit style pizza place. Same with Little Caesars, donít call it Detroit Style Pizza unless it is prepared, constructed and baked like True Dsp, donít give people the perception itís something itís notÖ Thatís my 2 centsÖ


Peter


Title: Re: Jets pizza
Post by: hotsawce on February 07, 2016, 01:30:08 PM
Why would a significant amount oil be required to get a crispy bottom in their conveyor ovens? I've gotten crispy bottoms baking on the rack in my home oven, no stone, so why would an impinger that forces air into the bottom of the pan be any different?

Am I missing something?
Title: Re: Jets pizza
Post by: Pete-zza on February 07, 2016, 01:50:56 PM
Here is the elaboration I mentioned in my last post.

The comments I quoted in my last post came from an article about Jet's at http://www.voice-tribune.com/life-style-2/tastes/jets-takes-off-with-detroit-style-pizza/ (http://www.voice-tribune.com/life-style-2/tastes/jets-takes-off-with-detroit-style-pizza/). I found the article in the course of a Google search I conducted to find information about Jet's ovens. When I opened up the article, I found the comments quoted in my last post. But I no sooner read the comments and they disappeared before my eyes. And the article reverted to what one is likely to see by clicking on the above link.

I think it was intended that the comments be deleted completely but maybe a lingering copy remained in their system. But when I tried to retrieve it to copy it, the comments disappeared again. So, I decided to go to the Wayback Machine to see if that website could hold the copy. I found six "captures" of the article, one of which surfaced, but the comments disappeared again. I was using my first or second generation iPad, so I decided to go through the same drill but using my desktop PC. Still, no luck. I couldn't find the comments at all. I later tried out my new iPad and it did not find the comments either. So, I decided to go back to the Wayback Machine using my old iPad. It took me several tries and I was able to eventually find the comments. But this time, I decided to use a trick I have used before with my old iPad to keep a page from crashing, and that was to keep my fingers moving on the screen, like an up and down scroll, but always moving. As I was doing this, a Copy button suddenly and unexpectedly popped up. I immediately hit it. I then tested the copy in a mock reply in this thread and saw that the entire article was there. So, I stripped everything away but for the comments. And with a few introductory words, that became my last post.

I estimate that I spent well over an hour trying to capture and copy the comments in my last reply. But I thought that it was important enough to have the comments on hand relative to the issue of the amount of oil Jet's uses in its pans, even if the Pizza guy might have exaggerated some of his comments.

If Norma, or anyone else wishes, I can go through the steps I went through to calculate the amount of oil that Jet's may be using based on the Jet's nutrition information. But the basics are quite simple. We know that a small Jet's square cheese pizza has six pieces, as we are told in the Jet's nutrition information for that pizza. There are 6 x 11 = 66 grams (rounded) of Total Fat in the pizza. The fats in the pizza reside only in the flour (about a gram, rounded, per hundred grams of flour) and in the mozzarella cheese (about 5 grams, rounded, per ounce for Grande). There are no fats in the water, the yeast, the salt or the sugar or in the sauce. Estimating the amount of mozzarella cheese used, and the rest is simple math. The last time I went through the calculations, I estimated that there were about eight teaspoons of corn oil. This was using the rounded nutrition numbers for fats. The amount of oil will change, but only slightly, if I calculate the ranges of fat in the flour and cheese on a non-rounded basis under FDA rules, which I have not done to date.

Peter

Title: Re: Jets pizza
Post by: norma427 on February 07, 2016, 01:59:16 PM
Peter,

I still have a hard time believing there could be that much oil in Jet's pans.  I think I could have logged in to see the one comment Peter mentioned, but didn't want to try that.  The photos show how the comment might be viewed.

Pizza guy sounds like a disgruntled past employee to me.  I could be wrong though.

Norma
Title: Re: Jets pizza
Post by: Pete-zza on February 07, 2016, 02:22:47 PM
Why would a significant amount oil be required to get a crispy bottom in their conveyor ovens? I've gotten crispy bottoms baking on the rack in my home oven, no stone, so why would an impinger that forces air into the bottom of the pan be any different?

Am I missing something?
Lou,

That is a fair question. When I did all of my experiments with the Papa John's clone pizzas after I had reversed engineered the dough formulation as best I could, I found that I could get a pizza that was baked in my home oven on a pizza screen to capture the texture and taste of a real PJ pizza. That was based on side by side tests. But since my oven, like most home electric ovens, had a tall interior to be able to accommodate things like big turkeys and the like, and since I did not have a convection feature, I concluded that my oven could not simulate the conveyor ovens that PJ was using. You can see a comparison of one of my PJ clone pizzas and a real PJ pizza of the same type and size in Replies 2 and 3 starting at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=6758.msg58197#msg58197 (http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=6758.msg58197#msg58197).

As for the amount of oil that one could use for a pan pizza baked in a conveyor oven, I had already known that Pizza Hut used enormous amounts of oil to bake their pan pizzas in conveyor ovens. So, I was not the least bit surprised about the idea of Jet's possibly doing the same. If you read the post by a former PH manager at Reply 5 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=4067.msg33990#msg33990 (http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=4067.msg33990#msg33990), you will see that 9 ounces of vegetable oil was used to bake a 16" (large) pan pizza and 6 ounces of oil for a 14" (medium) pan pizza. If we were to take the square inches of pan surface area in the PH case for a 14" pizza and adjust that area to be the same as for a small square pizza pan at Jet's (80 square inches), and even adjust for the different dough ball weights in some fashion, we would still be talking about a lot of corn oil in Jet's case.

Peter
Title: Re: Jets pizza
Post by: hotsawce on February 07, 2016, 02:29:43 PM
I would be very interested to test an impinger oven to see if it could bake up a crisp bottom crust without much oil. My home oven, not convection, set to 500 with a Lloyd pan detroit pie on the middle rack baked up very crispy on the bottom, without much oil in the pan. Why an impinger that blasts hot air directly into the bottom of the pan continuously would be unable to make a crisp pie confuses me...is there something going on with the science I don't understand?

Even when baking Kenji Lopez's cast iron pan pizza in my home oven...a thick cast iron pan...I was able to achieve a crispy bottom crust in 12 minutes...no stone or steel.
Title: Re: Jets pizza
Post by: Pete-zza on February 07, 2016, 02:42:03 PM
Pizza guy sounds like a disgruntled past employee to me.  I could be wrong though.

Norma
Norma,

I had meant to mention that it is quite possible that many Jet's workers do not use a lot of oil in the pans for the pizzas they make since it is common for franchisees to make modifications that suit their needs or practices. For example, if customers that frequent certain Jet's stores complain that the crusts are too oily, it is simple and easy enough to alter the practice about oil use to accommodate such customers and others like them in the future. That would be consistent with many of the Jet's videos we have seen.

I personally did not think that Pizza guy was a disgruntled former employee because his store used what he deemed to be too much oil. The point I think he was trying to drive home is that one should not confuse a Jet's pan pizza, or a Little Caesars pan pizza, as being representative of the Detroit style in the fashion of Buddy's, the Detroit Style Pizza Company, Via 313 and a few others that practice the classic Detroit style. In Jet's case, as I have noted before, I do not recall that Jet's itself has ever called their pan pizzas "Detroit style". Authors of articles on square pizzas quite likely have done so, but not Jet's to the best of my knowledge and recollection.

The only dog I have in the hunt as to the oil is to divine Jet's nutrition information on Total Fat.

Peter
Title: Re: Jets pizza
Post by: thezaman on February 08, 2016, 05:32:52 PM
 Peter,the sauce they tried to give my employee was a pre packaged marinara sauce. when he insisted on the actual side of pizza sauce they would not give him any. they finally broke down and charged 3.00 for two 4 ounce cups.
  i think if you look deeper into the Stanislaus you will see a pizza sauce with dried basil.i think that is their base. 
  i liked the sauce a lot. i like that dried basil taste in pizza sauce.it makes the sauce sweet and seems to cut the acid mellowing out the tomatoes. i think a lot of places use that as their base.  if you want to try a can i can probably get one shipped to you.
  as far as jets sauce vs the others. it was similar to loui's in that it was oregano forward.better than cloverleaf which was very plain. and i think dpc was better . you can see their tomato mix above. they warm theirs and add it post bake which give a different texture and taste. 
  the sauce i use  for my detroit has a cloned spice packet from fontinini sausage company code 100. my employees tasted the jets against the one i have been testing and they prefer the fontinini.which is 50 grams of the mix with a can of 7/11 tomatoes and water.
Title: Re: Jets pizza
Post by: Pete-zza on February 08, 2016, 06:52:46 PM
Peter,the sauce they tried to give my employee was a pre packaged marinara sauce. when he insisted on the actual side of pizza sauce they would not give him any. they finally broke down and charged 3.00 for two 4 ounce cups.
  i think if you look deeper into the Stanislaus you will see a pizza sauce with dried basil.i think that is their base. 
  i liked the sauce a lot. i like that dried basil taste in pizza sauce.it makes the sauce sweet and seems to cut the acid mellowing out the tomatoes. i think a lot of places use that as their base.
Larry,

Thank you, and thank you also for posting the same reply at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=41545.msg415490#msg415490 (http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=41545.msg415490#msg415490) in response to my post on the Jet's pizza sauce at Reply 43 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=41545.msg415464#msg415464 (http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=41545.msg415464#msg415464).

When I went through my analysis of the Stanislaus tomatoes as discussed at Reply 195 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=8247.msg413893#msg413893 (http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=8247.msg413893#msg413893), I looked at every Stanislaus tomato product at the Stanislaus website at http://www.stanislausfoodproducts.com/products/nutrition-facts (http://www.stanislausfoodproducts.com/products/nutrition-facts). There were many Stanislaus tomatoes that I could rule out very quickly based on the ingredients lists and, in some cases, the nature of the tomatoes themselves, such as those that had filets, diced tomatoes, tomato chunks, strips, plums, a lot of ingredients to make a fully-prepared sauce, etc. But the ones I studied intensely and spent a lot of time doing calculations with were those that were simply described at the Stanislaus website as "Vine-ripened tomatoes, salt and naturally derived citric acid". The reason I did this is because that is how Jet's described their pizza sauce in a document that was provided by Jet's to a school district that purchased pizzas from Jet's. That description is set forth in EDIT 9 of Reply 26 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=8247.msg118161#msg118161 (http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=8247.msg118161#msg118161). As soon as I saw that description I knew that they were most likely talking about Stanislaus because they are the only one I know of that uses that description, especially the part about the naturally derived citric acid. Escalon avoids those words like a plague and only uses them to imply that there is no citric acid in their fresh-pack tomatoes. They may not add any citric acid to their fresh-pack tomatoes but it is there naturally.

I would be very surprised if Jet's were using a Stanislaus tomato product with basil already in it because Jet's uses a seasoning product from Castella Imports. You can see the Castella seasoning pouch in the video that shows Jet's employees making the sauce. You can also see the seasoning being added to the mixer bowl at 3:19 in the video referenced in Reply 26. Some of the steps shown in that video were solely for production purposes. The actual processes take several more steps. But, for the record, I went back to the Stanislaus website and looked at their offerings with dried basil. The only one I found was the Saporitoģ Super Heavy Pizza Sauce with Dry Basil, at http://www.stanislausfoodproducts.com/_pdfs/Saporito-Pizza-Sauce-w-Dry-Basil.pdf (http://www.stanislausfoodproducts.com/_pdfs/Saporito-Pizza-Sauce-w-Dry-Basil.pdf). However, the Nutrition facts for that product did not match well with the Jet's nutrition information for their Pizza Sauce.

Since Jet's sold your employee two 4-ounce containers of Pizza Sauce, presumably leading your employee to believe that the Pizza Sauce was the same as used on their pizzas, that lends credence to my earlier suspicion that such was the case. If we are correct on this, it should make the calculations I perform more accurate. For those calculations, I was assuming that Jet's uses about four ounces of pizza sauce for the small square cheese pizza. Because of weight factors associated with the entire small Jet's square cheese pizza, which I will be discussing separately soon, the Jet's pizza sauce might be a bit more than four ounces.

I have to give Jet's a lot of credit for the way that they try to keep people from knowing what ingredients go into making their pizzas. Part of this is having packaging of the major pizza components with their names on the containers, and nothing to suggest what is in the containers. This applies to the bags of flour, the cans of Jet Fuel tomatoes, the boxes the cans of Jet Fuel tomatoes are packed in, and the seasoning pouches. I wouldn't be the least bit surprised to find out that all of those products are standard products that are sold to anyone but with packaging that is exclusive to Jet's. This approach even keeps their own employees in their stores and the employees of franchisees from knowing what is in the containers. About all they know is that the mozzarella cheese is from Grande, and that might have been leaked out by someone in one of the Jet's stores or by someone seeing the Grande in one of the stores (as member PizzaHog did).

Peter

Title: Re: Jets pizza
Post by: thezaman on February 09, 2016, 12:29:47 PM
one of my suppliers, sofo foods. distributes to 400 jets stores.they have a cheese called misto doro that they sell. the rep that opened the jets account had this specially blended for them.now that is the Toledo and Michigan stores. and everything in the sofo order guide for jets is off limits to other customers. they have over 600 cases of the blu steel parts pans and cannot sell them to anyone other then jets.
Title: Re: Jets pizza
Post by: Pete-zza on February 09, 2016, 01:17:02 PM
they have over 600 cases of the blu steel parts pans and cannot sell them to anyone other then jets.
Larry,

That is interesting but not surprising because it is consistent with the approach that Jet's has taken with respect to exclusivity. But if the new Jet's pans are different than the pre-existing blue steel parts pans, then that might pose challenges for others to replicate the Jet's pizzas even if they have the right dough formulation and use the same cheese and pizza sauce. There may also be oven considerations that come into play.

Peter
Title: Re: Jets pizza
Post by: thezaman on February 09, 2016, 10:00:38 PM
no they are part pans.the buyer gave the inventory on all sizes and tried to get approval to sell me some,no luck proprietary to jets. a year ago i got a case of the 8 by 10 from them ,but they tightened up on it. 
Title: Re: Jets pizza
Post by: HansB on February 10, 2016, 08:09:18 AM
no they are part pans.the buyer gave the inventory on all sizes and tried to get approval to sell me some,no luck proprietary to jets. a year ago i got a case of the 8 by 10 from them ,but they tightened up on it.

Larry, have you tried the pans from Roselli? If so, how did they work out?
Title: Re: Jets pizza
Post by: Pete-zza on February 13, 2016, 11:20:03 AM
In Reply 220, I alluded to weight factors associated with an entire small Jet's square cheese pizza. The reason I mentioned that was because pizza weight data given in nutrition information isn't always helpful. It is usually most helpful when used in conjunction with other information, such as the ingredients used to make the pizza and information such as the dough ball weight, the amount of cheese used, the amount of sauce used, the amount of weight loss during baking, etc.

To be more specific, in Jet's case the nutrition information given at its website at http://jetspizza.com/nutrition/category/13 (http://jetspizza.com/nutrition/category/13) says that a single slice of a small square cheese pizza weighs 114 grams. So, for six slices, the weight of the entire pizza is 684 grams. There is an asterisk Next to the words Serving Grams that, on the pdf copy of the nutrition information, says that one ounce is 28.35 grams. So, 684 grams translates into a weight for the entire pizza of 24.13 ounces.

During the course of this thread, we had two members, PizzaHog and Tommy Nott, who actually purchased pizzas from Jet's and weighed them. In PizzaHog's case, he purchased a small cheese and pepperoni pizza and, after removing the pepperoni slices, weighed the rest of the pizza. The weight he reported was 685 grams, or 24.16 ounces, or almost exactly as reported by Jet's for a small square cheese pizza. However, PizzaHog, who had purchased pizzas from Jet's for many years and was very familiar with what he was getting, reported that the worker who made his pizza used a heavy hand for the cheese, sauce and pepperoni. He also indicated that he did not see much in the way of fat rendered from the pepperoni during baking.

Subsequently, Tommy Nott purchased two small square pizzas from Jet's and weighed them shortly after purchase. In both cases, his weights were about 21 ounces, or losses of around three ounces when compared against the Jet's weight information. It was because of Tommy's experience with Jet's that I inquired at the FDA as to what recourses one had when a pizza sold by a pizzeria weighed less than its own nutrition information said. I was told that if the pizza was a frozen pizza (and presumably with a Nutrition Facts label as typically shown on the pizza box), then one could file a complaint with the FDA. But if the pizza was from a pizzeria, the recourse would be to go the pizzeria and complain.

I eventually came to the conclusion that Jet's most likely hired a specialist to create the Jet's nutrition information and, for this purpose, the specialist worked from a basic dough recipe (before cooking) along with information, including nutrition information, from the suppliers of the ingredients used to make the Jet's pizza, such as the flour, cheese, tomatoes, seasonings, etc. This was not an approach that was new to me. Some time ago, when I was trying to reverse engineer and clone the pizza dough used by the Papa Gino's chain in the Northeast, I had an exchange with them after I had purchased a pizza that weighed quite a bit less than what was stated in the PG nutrition information. The post where I reported on the matter is Reply 101 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=8167.msg75915;topicseen#msg75915 (http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=8167.msg75915;topicseen#msg75915). Based on the foregoing, I recently sent an email to Jet's asking if their nutrition information for their pizzas is for baked or unbaked pizzas. If an answer is forthcoming, that might help us determine how much cheese and sauce (seasoned) is used with a 20-ounce dough ball to make a clone of a small Jet's square cheese pizza.

Peter

Title: Re: Jets pizza
Post by: Pete-zza on February 18, 2016, 08:16:37 PM
Over the past two weeks or so, I sent two emails to Jet's inquiring as to certain aspects of their nutrition information as set forth for a small square cheese pizza. The Jet's nutrition information is given at http://jetspizza.com/nutrition/category/13 (http://jetspizza.com/nutrition/category/13).

The first question I asked was if the Cholesterol number given for the small square cheese pizza was still too high inasmuch as I understood that Jet's uses about six ounces of Grande low moisture part skim mozzarella cheese for that particular pizza. The Grande Nutrition Facts for that cheese can be seen at http://www.grandecheese.com/products/Pages/Product_Spec.aspx?ProductMasterID=16 (http://www.grandecheese.com/products/Pages/Product_Spec.aspx?ProductMasterID=16). Apparently, some Jet's stores use a shredded Grande cheese but the Nutrition Facts are the same as for the loaf cheese. The second question I asked was if the Jet's nutrition information was for baked or unbaked pizzas. As a side note, when I looked into that question for the Papa John's pizzas, I was told that their nutrition information was for baked pizzas (see Reply 212 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=6758.msg107166;topicseen#msg107166 (http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=6758.msg107166;topicseen#msg107166)). I also seem to recall that I called Pizza Hut on the same question and was told that their nutrition information was also for baked pizzas.

When I did not hear back from Jet's within the two-day window to respond, after the passage of about two weeks I followed up with another email that I sent to the general information part of Jet's rather than to the Nutrition department to which I had sent the two previous emails. Today, I received the following reply:

Hello Peter,

Thank you for emailing us regarding your nutrition questions. The nutritional values for pizza are based on being unbaked. And the amount of cheese that goes on a small square cheese pizza is slightly more than that. That nutritional value that you are seeing is correct. These values are all formulated using our nutritional software and usually will round up in a situation due to the guidelines required by the FDA. We hope this answers your questions for you. Please feel free to email us back with any further questions or comments.

Thank you,

Have a great day!


It isn't entirely clear whether the above statement means that more than six ounces of Grande cheese are used, so I may follow-up on that matter. Also, I will mention that the FDA rules do not call for only rounding up numbers. They can be rounded down also.

As I previously mentioned, according to the Jet's nutrition information, a small Jet's unbaked square cheese pizza weighs about 24 ounces. We know that the dough for making that pizza weighs 12 ounces, as previously discussed. So, that leaves about 12 ounces for the cheese and sauce and, possibly, the oil that goes into the pan. But there is a yawning gap between the number for Total Fat that I calculated for the Jet's small square chees pizza and the number shown in the Jet's nutrition information. And that gap cannot be closed, or come anywhere near closing, by simply using a bit more cheese, if that is what Jet's is saying. The only way that I can see to close that gap is to use around seven or eight teaspoon of corn oil in the pan.

I will report further if more information becomes available. But in the meantime, members who decide to use the dough formulation set forth at Reply 194 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=8247.msg413711#msg413711 (http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=8247.msg413711#msg413711) might want to use about 6 ounces of low moisture part skim mozzarella cheese and about five ounces of pizza sauce. I will leave to the members to decide how much corn oil to use in the pan.

Peter

Title: Re: Jets pizza
Post by: Pete-zza on February 24, 2016, 05:08:25 PM
In my last post, I indicated that I was going to follow up with Jet's on the cheese amount, more specifically, to get clarification on that amount, given that I used 6 ounces of cheese as my estimate of the amount of cheese used on a small Jet's square cheese pizza. The six ounces number came from a Jet's employee who made a small square cheese pizza for member Tommy Nott.

The follow-up email to Jet's yielded the following response:

Yes, there is more cheese than that on that specific pizza. The nutritional information displayed on our website for that pizza is correct. Any information more than that is proprietary.

That reply was helpful on two scores. More specifically, it increases the numbers for the Total Fat and Cholesterol. After doing several calculations, I came to the conclusion that 7.5 ounces of the Grande low moisture part skim mozzarella cheese (http://www.grandecheese.com/products/Pages/Product_Spec.aspx?ProductMasterID=16 (http://www.grandecheese.com/products/Pages/Product_Spec.aspx?ProductMasterID=16)) yields a Cholesterol number that is quite close to what Jet's reports in it nutrition information (http://jetspizza.com/nutrition/category/13 (http://jetspizza.com/nutrition/category/13)), and even more closely if I unround the Grande's Cholesterol number. When I thought about it, 7.5 ounces sounds reasonable and, in fact, is about what Buddy's uses on its small square cheese pizza but using brick cheese rather than mozzarella cheese. Using 7.5 ounces of mozzarella cheese also reduces the Total Fat gap that I mentioned in my last post. How much that gap is closed depends on whose numbers are used to do the calculations. For example, I used Grande's numbers and also those for a generic low moisture part skim mozzarella cheese as given at the NutritionData.Self.com website at http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/dairy-and-egg-products/28/2 (http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/dairy-and-egg-products/28/2). I also unrounded some of the numbers, inasmuch as I believe that it is most likely actual numbers that are used by Jet's to create its nutrition information. This analysis suggests that the amount of corn oil that Jet's uses in its 8" x 10" pans to make a square cheese pizza is about 5-6 teaspoons, with a weight of about one ounce.

Now, maybe a revised set of numbers can be set forth for a clone of a small Jet's square cheese pizza.

We know the dough ball weight for the above size of pizza is 12 ounces. That is the dough quantity from the formulation set forth at Reply 194 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=8247.msg413711#msg413711 (http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=8247.msg413711#msg413711). If we use 7.5 ounces of Grande low moisture part skim mozzarella cheese (or its nutritional equivalent), 3.5 ounces of pizza sauce, and one ounce of corn oil, we get a total of 24 ounces. That is about the weight of an unbaked small Jet's square pizza as given by Jet's at its website. There is perhaps a little wiggle room in those numbers since we are working with numbers that aren't exact, just as there is wiggle room in how a worker assembles a pizza to be baked.

Peter
Title: Re: Jets pizza
Post by: segfault on February 26, 2016, 11:06:21 PM
Hi Pete, 

7.5 oz cheese seems like a lot.  Would using Kroger low moisture part skim mozzarella vs Grande make a huge difference?? (see pics)

The amount of oil seems on point though, very crispy like jets!  Couldn't really say if the amount of sauce seemed correct due to the cheese.
Title: Re: Jets pizza
Post by: Pete-zza on February 27, 2016, 10:16:05 AM
segfault,

Thank you for posting your results. I have never had a Jet's pizza so I do not have any way of knowing how close your version compared with a real Jet's square cheese pizza. I would expect some taste differences since you would not be using the same ingredients as Jet's uses to make its pizzas. Your pizza looks very good but can you tell us how your pizza stacked up against a real Jet's square cheese pizza? It also would help to know what type and brand of flour you used, the makeup of the sauce you used, whether the Kroger cheese you used was in block or shredded form (which usually has fillers, preservatives and other things other than the basic cheese), the type and amount of oil you used in the pan, and how specifically you baked your pizza, including bake temperature and time, oven rack position, whether a pizza stone was used or not, etc. It might also help if you have any tips or suggestions or anything else that you think others might want to know if they plan to try a clone of the Jet's pizza.

With respect to the Kroger cheese you used, from what I found at a nutrition website at http://www.caloriecount.com/calories-kroger-cheese-i244780 (http://www.caloriecount.com/calories-kroger-cheese-i244780), it appears that the Nutrition Facts for the Kroger low moisture part skim mozzarella cheese are identical to the Nutrition Facts for the Grande low moisture part skim Grande that Jet's supposedly uses. You can see the Grande Nutrition Facts at http://www.grandecheese.com/products/Pages/Product_Spec.aspx?ProductMasterID=16 (http://www.grandecheese.com/products/Pages/Product_Spec.aspx?ProductMasterID=16). But the similarity of the Nutrition Facts does not mean that the two cheeses will taste the same, especially if the cheese you used was shredded and included anti-caking, preservatives and other ingredients besides the cheese. Also, Grande is one of the few cheese producers that makes shredded versions of their mozzarella cheeses without those other ingredients.

As for the amount of cheese you used, that is something you may want to experiment with to find what works best for you. As you know, I was trying to balance everything out such that the total weight of the unbaked clone of the Jet's small square cheese pizza came out to about 24 ounces. Pizza makers have a fair amount of latitude on matters such as total weight but it is also possible that there are deviations at the store level from the Jet's recommended amounts of cheese and other ingredients to use. For example, it is well known that franchisees will often use less cheese than they are supposed to (while also avoiding detection) because that is the easiest way to reduce the cost of ingredients used, especially since cheese is the most expensive part of a typical pizza. They may still have to pay the franchisor (Jet's in this case) royalties based on sales but they will still pocket more on the profits side. 

Peter


Title: Re: Jets pizza
Post by: segfault on February 27, 2016, 12:26:37 PM
Hi Peter,

The ingredients iím using right now are more a function of what I have on hand, but Iím working on finding Grande cheese.  I called Grande and inquired where I might purchase their cheese.  They told me they donít sell retail, but Gordon Food Service is an authorized distributor in the Detroit area, and my best bet is to check out one of their stores.  So thatís on my list of things to do today.  Iím still searching for where to buy Stanislaus for my sauce, and in the mean time, iíve just been using Dei Fratelli Tomato Puree (28oz) and adding a mixture of spices.  As for the flour, I am using King Arthur - Sir Lancelot (high gluten bread flour)Ö Iíll also be switching this up based on the discoveries you have made in that area.  The Kroger cheese was just their stock 8oz bag of shredded low moisture mozzarella.

I would say the amount of oil used (2T) is spot on.  I think the amount of ďcrunchĒ in the dough is comparable to a real Jetís pizza.  The flavor of the sauce i use isnít comparable to jets, but I think nailing the quantity is the first step.  The amount of cheese used (7.5oz) seemed high.  I think iíll order a Jets 8x10 cheese only pizza today and deconstruct.  See how well i can separate the cheese from the sauce.  Iíll post my results.

My process (8x10 cheese only)

Weigh dough ingredients:

Flour - 200.92g
H20 - 130.6g
ADY (Fleischmann, ADY) - 0.77g
Salt (Kosher) - 3.52g
Sugar  - 4.4g

Microwave H20 to get to about 100deg F.
Add ADY, salt, sugar to mixing bowl
Add water
Add flour

Mix on low until incorporated (~2min)
Mix on 4 (medium) for 8 min.

In my most recent attempt, i threw the dough ball on my scale, and it was 11.9oz after mixing.

I put the dough in a plastic container, and proof it in the oven for 1 hour @ 100deg.  After an hour, i add 2T corn oil to my 8x10 blue steel pan, and use a brush to distribute the oil on the sides and bottom.  I then transfer the dough to the pan, and do my best to stretch it to fill the pan.  I cover the pan with a wet towel and put it back in the oven for 1 hour @ 100deg.  I then remove it from the oven, and let it stand at room temperature until Iím ready to make a pizza.

To cook the pizza, i preheat my oven to 550 degrees.  I use the regular ďBakeĒ settingÖ (vs convection)
I have my rack set in the middle of the oven.  No pizza stone, I place the 8x10 pan directly on the rack.

For this latest attempt, i added 3.5oz sauce, and 7.5oz cheese.  Next attempt iíll reduce the cheese to 3.75ozÖ or iíll use the amount from my jetís ďexperimentĒ

I find that the pizza needs to be cooked for a total of 10 to 12 minutes.  However, I always watch the pizza, and when the cheese starts to brown up, i put aluminum foil over the pizza, and let it continue to cook.

For this attempt, after 7 minutes, the cheese was starting to brown, so I quickly placed foil over my pan, and let it continue to cook for the full 10 to 12 minutes.

After cooking, i take the pizza out and let it cool in the pan for 5 to 10 minutes.  I find if i let it rest in the pan, itís easier to release from the pan.  To release from the pan, i use a plastic spatula, slide it around the edges, and then ďpopĒ it out onto a cooling rack.  I let it cool for another 5 to 10 min, transfer to cutting board and slice it up.
Title: Re: Jets pizza
Post by: Pete-zza on February 27, 2016, 01:56:39 PM
I think iíll order a Jets 8x10 cheese only pizza today and deconstruct.  See how well i can separate the cheese from the sauce.  Iíll post my results.
segfault,

If you do decide to get a Jet's cheese pizza would you mind taking the dimensions of the pizza? If you ask them to leave the pizza uncut, then that might make the measuring easier. I'd ask you to also weigh the pizza but I wouldn't want you to do that if it will spoil the eating experience.

Peter
Title: Re: Jets pizza
Post by: segfault on February 29, 2016, 11:36:39 PM
Hi Pete,

Sorry for not getting to the Jet's pizza experiment.  Life with kids sometimes alters plans :)  However, they will be at daycare tomorrow, and after i pick up my order of Grande cheese from GFS, I plan on ordering a Jets pizza for deconstruction!

Title: Re: Jets pizza
Post by: Pete-zza on March 01, 2016, 07:52:35 AM
segfault,

Do what you have to do and don't worry about this. When you are ready, we will continue.

Peter
Title: Re: Jets pizza
Post by: segfault on March 01, 2016, 01:55:14 PM
Comments below
Title: Re: Jets pizza
Post by: segfault on March 01, 2016, 01:57:02 PM
Comments below
Title: Re: Jets pizza
Post by: segfault on March 01, 2016, 02:03:56 PM
Hi Pete,

So I ordered a small deep dish cheese only pizza from Jets today.  I asked them not to cut it for easier measure/weight.

It took me 5 minutes to get from pizza shop to home.

The pizza weighed 21.3407oz. 
Top of pizza dimensions were roughly 8.75" x 7"
Bottom of pizza dimensions were roughly 8.5" x 6.5"

I put the pizza in my small 8x10 blue steel pan, and it fit like a glove..... which i would expect, i ordered those blue steel pans years ago because i read that is what jets uses :)

It was difficult to get the cheese off, i certainly didn't recover 100% of the cheese, and there was some sauce mixed in, but that weighed 4.7oz
The sauce, also difficult to separate, was 0.5oz (but i missed a lot)

I took a bunch of pictures (posted above) of my "science" experiment :)






Title: Re: Jets pizza
Post by: Pete-zza on March 01, 2016, 05:52:25 PM
segfault,

Thank you very much for the measurements that you took on the Jet's small square cheese pizza that you purchased. If you look at the material I quoted in Reply 79 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=8247.msg137559;topicseen#msg137559 (http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=8247.msg137559;topicseen#msg137559), it appears that your measurements of the dimensions of the pizza are similar to what member PizzaHog got for a small square pizza that he purchased from Jet's, and also what Cloverleaf reported for the size of their pizzas. As for the weight of the pizza that you got, it is about what member Tommy Nott got on two separate occasions. On one occasion, he was told by the worker that made the pizza that the amount of mozzarella cheese used was 5 ounces. On the other occasion, the worker who made the pizza said that the amount of cheese was 6 ounces. Jet's corporate now tells us that the amount is more than 6 ounces.

I might add that any weight loss during transit from the Jet's store to your home five minutes away should be minor and inconsequential. 

It is hard to determine weights of things from a baked pizza because there are losses due to evaporation of moisture in the dough, the sauce and the cheese, and those losses can vary depending on the size of the pizza, the amounts of sauce and cheese, and the bake method, the bake temperature and the bake duration. But, overall, a weight loss of about 12-13% for a Jet's small square cheese pizza seems to be typical. That is something that you might test on your own Jet's clone sometime to see if that percent is also typical of your clone baked in your own oven.

I am also curious as to whether your Jet's pizza seemed oily in any way, and maybe indicative of the use of a lot of oil in the pan.

Peter
Title: Re: Jets pizza
Post by: segfault on March 02, 2016, 08:39:35 PM
I am also curious as to whether your Jet's pizza seemed oily in any way, and maybe indicative of the use of a lot of oil in the pan.

I feel like Jets has some inconsistency in how oily their pizza is.  The cheese pizza i bought yesterday didn't feel oily.  I have been adding 2T of corn oil per your suggestions, and I feel like that is pretty close.

I picked up some Grande cheese from GFS and made another attempt at a small cheese.  I used 5.6oz cheese, and 4oz sauce.  After cooking, it weighed in at 1lb 4.2oz.  About an oz short of the jets i purchased recently.  I feel like there could have been more cheese, so i'm going to attempt 6.5oz cheese and 4oz sauce.

Having never used Grande cheese, i have to admit, it's amazing what a difference it makes. 




Title: Re: Jets pizza
Post by: Pete-zza on March 02, 2016, 08:56:59 PM
segfault,

Were there any Nutrition Facts to accompany the Grande low moisture, part skim mozzarella cheese you purchased from GFS and, if so, can you give me the numbers for the nutrients listed on the label?

Peter
Title: Re: Jets pizza
Post by: segfault on March 02, 2016, 10:43:24 PM
took a picture of the label
Title: Re: Jets pizza
Post by: Pete-zza on March 03, 2016, 07:47:41 AM
segfault,

Thank you for posting the Grande Nutrition Facts. They are the same as Grande posts at its website, at:

http://www.grandecheese.com/products/Pages/Product_Spec.aspx?ProductMasterID=16

The Grande Nutrition Facts are the same for all forms of the low moisture part skin mozzarella cheese, including loaf, diced and shredded.

Peter

Title: Re: Jets pizza
Post by: jsperk on March 03, 2016, 11:29:22 AM
Your pizza look real good.
Here an article I just read. Maybe most  people seen this info.https://www.washingtonpost.com/pb/recipes/detroit-style-pizza/15159/?tid=a_inl

https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/food/why-your-next-homemade-pizza-should-hail-from-the-midwest-not-new-york/2016/02/22/0f1659c4-d505-11e5-be55-2cc3c1e4b76b_story.html

Title: Re: Jets pizza
Post by: Pete-zza on March 03, 2016, 11:43:53 AM
jsperk,

Thank you for the links. However, interestingly, to the best of my knowledge Jet's has never touted its square pizzas as being Detroit-style, although maybe they have acquiesced in others calling it that style rather than trying to correct them. I have theorized that Jet's does not want to limit its style to a particular regional area when their plans call for franchising their business all across the company.

As an aside, the recipes at the Washington Post are indicated to be adaptations of a recipe by Shawn Randazzo of the Detroit Style Pizza Company. That means that the recipe is not a scaled down version of a recipe he is using.

Peter
Title: Re: Jets pizza
Post by: jsperk on March 03, 2016, 12:00:06 PM
jsperk,

Thank you for the links. However, interestingly, to the best of my knowledge Jet's has never touted its square pizzas as being Detroit-style, although maybe they have acquiesced in others calling it that style rather than trying to correct them. I have theorized that Jet's does not want to limit its style to a particular regional area when their plans call for franchising their business all across the company.

As an aside, the recipes at the Washington Post are indicated to be adaptations of a recipe by Shawn Randazzo of the Detroit Style Pizza Company. That means that the recipe is not a scaled down version of a recipe he is using.

Peter

Thanks for the info. I'll be using the recipe on reply 230 before trying the one from the Washington post. Hopefully tomorrow but all I have is Robin hood AP flour right now.
Title: Re: Jets pizza
Post by: Pete-zza on March 03, 2016, 12:13:08 PM
I'll be using the recipe on reply 230 before trying the one from the Washington post. Hopefully tomorrow but all I have is Robin hood AP flour right now.
jsperk,

The version I came up with for the dough for a clone of a small Jet's square pizza using an 8" x 10" pan is set forth at Reply 194 at:

http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=8247.msg413711#msg413711 (http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=8247.msg413711#msg413711).

I believe segfault used a somewhat different version.

Peter
Title: Re: Jets pizza
Post by: segfault on March 03, 2016, 04:46:18 PM
Pete,

That was actually a mistake on my part, when I was posting I realized I had somehow not followed your recipe.

I'm working on dialing in the sauce / cheese amounts so that my cooked weight is close, and also matches the consistency of Jets.  I'll post a follow up soon!


jsperk,

The version I came up with for the dough for a clone of a small Jet's square pizza using an 8" x 10" pan is set forth at Reply 194 at:

http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=8247.msg413711#msg413711 (http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=8247.msg413711#msg413711).

I believe segfault used a somewhat different version.

Peter
Title: Re: Jets pizza
Post by: Pete-zza on March 03, 2016, 06:06:13 PM
I was recently shopping at Kroger's and another local supermarket that is an affiliate of Safeway, and I decided to check out the low moisture part skim mozzarella (LMPS) cheeses sold in those stores. What I was looking for was primarily the Total Fat, Cholesterol and Sodium numbers as given on the Nutrition Facts labels. These are the most telling numbers for analytical purposes because their values pretty much stay intact from unbaked to baked pizza.

What surprised me was that Kroger sells a one-pound ball of LMPS mozzarella cheese that has 7g of Total Fat, 20mg of Cholesterol, and 210mg of Sodium. Those numbers would work better in analyzing the Jet's nutrition information than the Grande LMPS mozzarella cheese numbers.

Kroger also has a two-pound rectangular block of LMPS mozzarella cheese but for some reason the numbers are like those for the Grande LMPS mozzarella cheese, with 5g Total Fat, 15mg Cholesterol, and 170mg Sodium. I would have expected the two Kroger products to have the same Nutrition Facts.

I also found two brands, Cacique (the name is Spanish but the cheese is made in the U.S., most likely for a Hispanic customer base) and Lucerne that have 6g Total Fat, 15mg Cholesterol, and 210mg Sodium. As with the Kroger one-pound ball of LMPS mozzarella cheese, both of these products work better in analyzing the Jet's nutrition than the Grande LMPS mozzarella cheese numbers.

Since we don't know what software Jet's uses to create its nutrition information, or what numbers are put into the software, which could even include more accurate and detailed (unrounded) numbers from Grande, and since no doubt there are rounding of some of the numbers, it is hard to know exactly how much LMPS Grande mozzarella cheese Jet's uses in making a basic small square cheese pizza. Some of this may be moot inasmuch as the Jet's workers who assemble pizzas in real time have a fair amount of latitude in what the final pizza looks like and how much it will weigh after baking. The information we have suggests that the cheese is weighed out in the Jet's stores before placing on the pizza but the dough itself is scaled into balls by hand in each store, as shown, for example, in the video cited in Reply 26 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=8247.msg118161#msg118161 (http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=8247.msg118161#msg118161), and the sauce is applied free hand. So, there can be variances from one pizza to another in terms of weight. Since Jet's does not come under the FDA's jurisdiction, one either has to accept what they get from Jet's or complain to management.

For those who do not have access to the Grande LMPS mozzarella cheese but do have access to a Kroger store, the one-pound ball of the Kroger LMPS mozzarella cheese may be a reasonable alternative to the Grande cheese. I would think that about 6-7 ounces would be a good place to start.

As somewhat an aside, I was reading an interesting article today about a lawsuit that was lodged against the Subway sandwich chain because its footlong sandwiches weren't always a foot long, or 12". The suit was based on deceptive marketing and sales practices, not on some violation of FDA rules or regulations. But the article, at http://www.restaurantnews.com/why-the-subway-footlong-lawsuits-fell-short/ (http://www.restaurantnews.com/why-the-subway-footlong-lawsuits-fell-short/), had me laughing because of how I and others have tried to nail down information from both Jet's and Buddy's about their pizzas. For those who would like the full story on the lawsuit, the details are at http://www.wied.uscourts.gov/sites/wied/files/documents/Subway%20MDL%20Final%20Settlement%20Approval%20Order.pdf (http://www.wied.uscourts.gov/sites/wied/files/documents/Subway%20MDL%20Final%20Settlement%20Approval%20Order.pdf).

Peter

Title: Re: Jets pizza
Post by: THEBBQMAN on March 27, 2016, 04:58:55 PM
http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160327/87f23f96b03ab9107bfb49dc96005ea5.jpg

This is the oven at a Jets Pizza in Greenville SC.
Title: Re: Jets pizza
Post by: hotsawce on March 30, 2016, 02:00:38 AM
Any idea what temp they run at?

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160327/87f23f96b03ab9107bfb49dc96005ea5.jpg

This is the oven at a Jets Pizza in Greenville SC.
Title: Re: Jets pizza
Post by: hotsawce on March 31, 2016, 05:11:14 PM
A friend of mine had a Jets pie in TN and said the bottom was extremely crispy; so crisp and crunchy, that it almost hurt your mouth to eat it. I haven't tried a Jet's pie but that sounds appealing to me. Definitely never had a crispy pie from a conveyor oven. I wonder what their oven setup is...
Title: Re: Jets pizza
Post by: DetroitPizzaGirl on March 12, 2017, 12:07:35 PM
Hello everyone - I am new to this forum, but I have read this Jet's thread many, many times and already done a couple experiments of making Jet's pizza.  I would like to share my experience here and exchange information with you. I'm originally from the Detroit area, but I am currently living in Europe. And there is NOTHING like Jet's Pizza over here. That is why it is my mission to try and make this pizza myself.

I used Segfault's recipe/instructions for my trials (Thank you Segfault!). 

* Pan Size: 12.5 x 16.5 Blue Steel Pan

* Sauce (turned out really well! I think I nailed this one). Whisk the below ingredients together for 5 minutes:
- 14oz Pureed sun-ripened tomatoes (get a really high-quality brand)
- 1/2 teaspoon salt
- 1/4 teaspoon granulated garlic (not garlic powder... look for "granulated"... it has a more sand-like texture and flavour is better)
- 1 tablespoon dried oregano

Dough Ingredients:
- Flour (100%):    493.66 g  |  17.41 oz | 1.09 lbs 
- Water (65%):    320.88 g  |  11.32 oz | 0.71 lbs
- IDY (.3851%):    1.9 g | 0.07 oz | 0 lbs | 0.63 tsp | 0.21 tbsp 
- Salt (1.75%):    8.64 g | 0.3 oz | 0.02 lbs | 1.55 tsp | 0.52 tbsp
- Sugar (2.1875%):    10.8 g | 0.38 oz | 0.02 lbs | 2.71 tsp | 0.9 tbsp
- Total (169.3226%):   835.87 g | 29.48 oz | 1.84 lbs | TF = 0.15

Dough Instructions:

- Add Active Dry Yeast (ADY), Salt, Sugar to a mixing bowl
- Heat Water (100 degrees Fahrenheit) to a WARM/HOT temperature, but not boiling (it will ruin the yeast). 
- Add all water to bowl and whisk together well until absorbed
- Add Flour - I used a flour that was called "Pizza Flour"
- Mix Flour 1-2 minutes until incorporated.  (I only have a hand-mixer, so then I removed the dough and kneaded it by hand for 10 minutes)
- When dough is finished it should be soft and sticky, not stiff.
- Place the dough in a plastic bowl (oiled), and spread oil on top of dough. Cover with a wet kitchen towel.  Place in oven for 60 minutes to rise.
- Put 5 TBSP corn oil into Pizza Pan. Spread out dough in the pan (as far to the corners as you can). 
- Cover dough with a wet towel or plastic wrap and put in the oven 90 minutes to rise again (at 100 Degrees Fahrenheit).

Baking:
- I pre-heated my oven to 250 Celsius (480 Fahrenheit) - as that is the highest my oven can go.  I used a special setting that cooks from the bottom, kind of like roasting but from the bottom only.
- I cooked the pizza for 30 minutes. Then allowed it to cool for 10 minutes, before removing it from the pan and cutting it on a cutting board.

Observations during Baking:
- 3 min Ė oil bubbles on side
- 5 min Ė cheese melted
- 13 min Ė Pepperoni leaking oil a bit, light brown edges on sides, cheese still liquidy, can see oil bubbling on sides slightly
- 15 min Ė cheese start to bubble a bit, size crust more golden
- 20 min Ė crust a golden brown color, cheese still liquidy and not burned, oil from pepperoni on top of pizza starts to bubble a bit.
- 22 min Ė golden edge getting darker and moving inwards more on top of pizza, pepperonis starting to fry on top
- 23 min Ė cheese has some few brown spots
- 24 min Ė cheese bubbles up slowly and bursts
- 25 min Ė middle of pizza seems to rise, sides stay more sunken down
- 26 min Ė more brown spots on cheese. Air temperature seems to be 200 Celsius
- 28 min Ė more brown spots on cheese, crust getting dark.

Final Result:
- This was the best attempt so far.  The sides were crunchy. The bottom was ďtougherĒ like the beginning of a crunch, but not crunchy enough like Jetís. 

I still wasn't able to get the really crunch crust... here were some ideas that I had to try next time:
- Place the pizza pan DIRECTLY on the bottom of the oven (not on the lowest rack). Could this maybe work?
- Maybe cook the pizza longer and a lower temperature?
- More Corn oil in the pan?
- Different type of flour?
Title: Re: Jets pizza
Post by: vtsteve on March 12, 2017, 01:34:59 PM
Love the crumb! You might try baking on a stone or steel, to try to drive a little more heat into the bottom crust. Sometime less oil helps with crisping, as too much oil can slow the heat transfer. Smaller pans may help, too -- was the bottom crispier toward the edges, softer/tougher in the middle?
Title: Re: Jets pizza
Post by: humpty99 on March 12, 2017, 02:20:48 PM
It's been a looooong time since I've posted anything,  but I've been in bed sick and this old thread caught my eye.

I saw the pic below on page 3 of a purchased jets pizza. My mind instantly went to rice flour. It looks like a cracker made with rice flour to me. Knowing that the op was after the crunch factor, any chance this is the missing link?

Anyone who has used rice flour knows that it definately creates a signature crunch. Forgive me if this has already came up. I did scan all the pages before posting. I also clicked on Pete's link to the flour source that he thought was being used. There were a couple gluten free varieties on their site,  which could be a source for the rice flour. Even a small percentage in the flour mix may change the crunch characteristics just enough.
(http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h222/humpty99/Screenshot_20170312-141341.png) (http://s65.photobucket.com/user/humpty99/media/Screenshot_20170312-141341.png.html)
Title: Re: Jets pizza
Post by: DetroitPizzaGirl on March 13, 2017, 09:47:27 AM
Thank you for these ideas!

VTSTEVE - Yes I definitely want a smaller pan, unfortunately the 12x16 was the only thing I could find on Amazon short-notice.  I am going to look for the smaller 8x10 one.  You are correct, the bottom was crispier towards the edges and softer/tougher in the middle. I think I will also try a pizza stone, good idea.

HUMPTY99 - I haven't seen anyone mention rice flour yet, but I would be willing to try anything. When I do my next "experiment" I will give that a try and report back to the group.  It may be a couple weeks until I can get to it.
Title: Re: Jets pizza
Post by: HansB on March 13, 2017, 11:20:16 AM
Here are excellent pans for DS pizza: https://www.lloydpans.com/standard-pans/pizza-tools/detroit-style-pizza-pans-sicilian-pans/detroit-style-pizza-pans

Rice flour is not an ingredient in any DS pizza that I know of.

Here's my DS thread: https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=42012.0
Title: Re: Jets pizza
Post by: HarryHaller73 on March 13, 2017, 04:04:43 PM
Here are excellent pans for DS pizza: https://www.lloydpans.com/standard-pans/pizza-tools/detroit-style-pizza-pans-sicilian-pans/detroit-style-pizza-pans

Rice flour is not an ingredient in any DS pizza that I know of.

Here's my DS thread: https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=42012.0

I spoke to a former Jets employee at a fast food franchising forum here in NYC.  It's proprietary hi gluten flour at intermediate hydration high 50's low 60's,  not a Detroit style formulation that I've seen here at the 70-75+% hydration area.  Jets does not cold ferment and makes dough in house every morning.  Morning dough is used for afternoon to dinner service and next day lunch.  Dough is balled pressed in pan and proofed for few hours. As hotsawce mentioned in an old post, the undercrust is very crunchy and dry and the crumb is tighter than high hydration pan pizzas..  This all makes sense within lower hydration.  Jets sets 8 minutes in a convection heat conveyor.  The convection probably a very different heating profile than another oven.  Converting from convection bake time to standard, might be I'm guessing, 12-15 minutes. 
 
I finally tried a Jets pizza in Boca Raton this month.  I'm surprised they don't have more franchise locations, IMO, they are much better than other chain pan pizza.

Title: Re: Jets pizza
Post by: invertedisdead on March 13, 2017, 04:15:58 PM
I spoke to a former Jets employee at a fast food franchising forum here in NYC.  It's proprietary hi gluten flour at intermediate hydration high 50's low 60's,  not a Detroit style formulation that I've seen here at the 70-75+% hydration area.  Jets does not cold ferment and makes dough in house every morning.  Morning dough is used for afternoon to dinner service and next day lunch.  Dough iis balled pressed in pan and proofed for few hours. As hotsawce mentioned in an old post, the undercrust is very crunchy and dry and the crumb is tighter than high hydration pan pizzas..  This all makes sense within lower hydration.  Jets sets 8 minutes in a convection heat conveyor at 450 F.  The convection probably a very different heating profile than another oven.  Converting from convection bake time to standard, might be I"m guessing, 12-15 minutes. 
 
I finally tried a Jets pizza in Boca Raton this month.  I'm surprised they don't have more franchise locations, IMO, they are much better than other chain pan pizza.

What yeast percent would give such a large window of usability?
Title: Re: Jets pizza
Post by: HansB on March 13, 2017, 04:16:37 PM

I finally tried a Jets pizza in Boca Raton this month.  I'm surprised they don't have more franchise locations, IMO, they are much better than other chain pan pizza.

I agree. Jet's was my go to spot for round pizza before I started making my own.
Title: Re: Jets pizza
Post by: HarryHaller73 on March 13, 2017, 04:27:20 PM
What yeast percent would give such a large window of usability?

Since dough is made in morning at 9am, and earliest used is around 3pm, that's a 6-12 hr dough until close.  But as this style requires pressing and re-proofing in a pan for several hours, the style in itself should have a long window of usage.  I'm guessing 0.25-0.5% depending on temperature and humidity.

Also, I would assume they stick dough for tomorrow's lunch service in the fridge.
Title: Re: Jets pizza
Post by: Pete-zza on March 13, 2017, 04:56:39 PM
HarryHaller73,

You can see my analysis of the Jet's pizza in a series of posts starting at Reply 194 at:

https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=8247.msg413711#msg413711

There is also a lot of background information in the post at Reply 26 at:

https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=8247.msg118161#msg118161.

Peter
Title: Re: Jets pizza
Post by: HarryHaller73 on March 13, 2017, 05:57:41 PM
HarryHaller73,

You can see my analysis of the Jet's pizza in a series of posts starting at Reply 194 at:

https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=8247.msg413711#msg413711

There is also a lot of background information in the post at Reply 26 at:

https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=8247.msg118161#msg118161.

Peter

Thanks for the links.

My initial impression of the crust was that it is pretty amazing and yet very uncomplicated, what stands out is an almost fossilized undercrust which produces a big crunch.  This is their "hook".  This simple thing differentiates it from other soggy pan pizzas on market.   There are some interesting information in your links that I saw, regarding oil used to grease the pan.  Though the data shows corn oil only, there's definitely an artificial flavoring added somewhere, as corn oil doesn't naturally taste like butter.  Tasting the sauce, there's alot more going on there too, and reminds me of Chuck E. Cheese pizza sauce in the 80's in a good way.  There's something nostalgic about the pizza flavor.   To clone this pizza begins with getting the undercrust texture right.  In my experience, is low/intermediate hydration, lower temp and longer bake.  To dry out the undercrust as much as possible without burning it.

I find another way their model differentiates against competitors is via tight quality control of workflow and ingredient sourcing and prep.  Unused old doughs are thrown out, and made fresh daily unlike other chains who'll use delivered dough out to many days.  Vegetables are cut in house daily, etc.  Nothing complicated just fresher ingredients and strict adherence to processes.  And these things seem cyclical to chains.  For instance, about a decade ago, Dominos rebooted with better processes and ingredients and they've cleaned up in market share while Papa Johns has regressed and imo, was the better product at one point.

Title: Re: Jets pizza
Post by: Pete-zza on March 13, 2017, 06:21:16 PM
HarryHaller73,

On the matter of the crunch, you might take a look at Reply 21, at https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=8247.msg415258#msg415258, and also Reply 214 at https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=8247.msg415286#msg415286. There is also a fair amount of follow-up discussion after Reply 214.

There will always be issues when trying to replicate a commercial pizza but using a home oven. It also means having the right pan.

Peter
Title: Re: Jets pizza
Post by: amkelly on March 21, 2017, 08:28:29 PM
Having been in Jets before they started branding their supplies, my husband saw them using Whirl to coat the deep dish pans.  So the last time I was there, I saw a bottle with their name on it.....and it was turned enough to see the name of Whirl on the back.  I purchased some a couple of weeks ago and it made a world of difference in the crunch and taste.
Title: Re: Jets pizza
Post by: segfault on May 16, 2017, 12:05:58 PM
this stuff??
https://www.amazon.com/Whirl-Butter-Flavored-Oil-Gallon-case/dp/B00BUYU2IK


Having been in Jets before they started branding their supplies, my husband saw them using Whirl to coat the deep dish pans.  So the last time I was there, I saw a bottle with their name on it.....and it was turned enough to see the name of Whirl on the back.  I purchased some a couple of weeks ago and it made a world of difference in the crunch and taste.
Title: Re: Jets pizza
Post by: foreplease on May 21, 2017, 08:44:12 PM
A person could read this entire thread, decide on the best approach, and make one faster than he/she could successfully order one from Jet's web site. The one in our area anyway. Too bad, I like their pizza once in a while but not their phone system or web site. It's near my shop. I walk in and order one sometimes and come back in 15-20 minutes.
Title: Re: Jets pizza
Post by: hotsawce on June 05, 2017, 11:09:59 PM
I'm surprised. Whirl is just Soybean oil...

Having been in Jets before they started branding their supplies, my husband saw them using Whirl to coat the deep dish pans.  So the last time I was there, I saw a bottle with their name on it.....and it was turned enough to see the name of Whirl on the back.  I purchased some a couple of weeks ago and it made a world of difference in the crunch and taste.
Title: Re: Jets pizza
Post by: HansB on June 06, 2017, 10:54:19 AM
I'm surprised. Whirl is just Soybean oil...

Lou, I could not find the ingredients but the website says: Whirl butter flavored oil adds delicious butter flavor to everything you make, without the hassles of butter or margarine. Whirl's authentic butter flavor makes it great for brushing on pizza crusts and breadsticks and as a replacement for butter or margarine in wing sauces. Best of all, Whirl is up to half the cost of butter!

So they must just add flavoring to soybean oil?
Title: Re: Jets pizza
Post by: Pete-zza on June 06, 2017, 11:18:04 AM
Hans,

Here you go :D:

http://www.foodservicedirect.com/product.cfm/p/11055/Whirl-Butter-Flavored-Oil.htm

Peter
Title: Re: Jets pizza
Post by: hotsawce on June 08, 2017, 02:30:17 AM
I'm curious;

Does anyone recall Jet's bake time and temp? I've never had one of their pies but I do find it interesting they've cracked getting a very crisp crust in a conveyor.

Also, does anyone know how they store and care for their plans? Jets has to do a ton of volume...I'm wondering how they clean those steel pans without having them rust.
Title: Re: Jets pizza
Post by: THEBBQMAN on June 11, 2017, 04:02:05 PM
I'll ask the next time I stop in and see if the help will give me the time and temp for their pies.  I do LOVE their rectangle pies, crispy on the outside and tender on the inside, just the right amount of cheese and sauce IMO.
Title: Re: Jets pizza
Post by: segfault on July 30, 2017, 09:41:28 PM
It's been a long time since I made a home made pizza.....but i made two this weekend!

I used Pete's formula as per reply 194

Flour 202.47 - KABF (it's all i had available)
Water 132.01 - Filtered @ 70deg F
ADY 1.62 - fleischmann ADY
Salt 2.39 - Morton Kosher
Sugar 1.71 - Kroger Granulated Sugar

Inc in blender
8min on "6"
Plastic container, room temp 2 hr,  then shape into square, and roll out, place in 8x10 blue steel pan along with 3T veg oil (didn't have corn :[  )
rerise in oven on "proof" (~100f)


I used reply 251 for the sauce:
14oz puree sun ripened tomato
1/2 tsp salt
1/4 tsp granulated garlic
1 Tbs dried oregano
whisk together


for the pizza, i used :
6.5oz grande mozzarella
4oz pizza sauce

I feel like this is an optimal level of cheese to sauce to dough, i won't be tweaking this anymore.

For the first - Baked 12min @ 550 on bottom rack [foil @ 9min] - came out a bit burnt on the bottom
For the second - Baked 12min @ 550 on middle rack [foil @ 9min] - golden brown on the bottom

props to DetroitPizzaGirl, sauce is pretty good, perhaps a touch aggressive with the garlic, but i enjoyed it.  I'm going to compare it to a jets pizza one of these days and see if i can tweak it.

I'd like to give this "whirl" business a try, but i'm not thrilled about buying bulk quantities :|





Title: Re: Jets pizza
Post by: Pepperonnie on October 14, 2017, 06:52:20 PM
Here is my take on a Jet's Pizza we had for dinner tonight. Tastes real close to Jet's.
Title: Re: Jets pizza
Post by: Pete-zza on October 14, 2017, 06:57:23 PM
Pepperonnie,

You did a very nice job. Can you tell us what dough recipe you used?

Peter
Title: Re: Jets pizza
Post by: Pepperonnie on November 02, 2017, 01:27:30 PM
Pepperonnie,

You did a very nice job. Can you tell us what dough recipe you used?

Peter

I start out with:

1 cup water
2 tsp salt
2 tsp sugar
2 tsp yeast
1 1/2 cups bread flower
1/2 cup or less semolina.

I mix by hand and add more bread flower until I get it mixed good. I leave the dough kinda of on the wet side. Then I put it in a covered dish and let it rise for 1-2 hours. Then I put it in my square pan that I bought from DetroitStylePizza.com. The main thing is to put corn oil in the pan before adding the dough. This is what gives it the kind of fried dough like Jets. I let it rise in the pan until it reaches the thickness I like. I used 2 different cooking methods. Sometimes I bake it on a pizza stone, yes in the pan, at 500-550 degrees for 8 minutes. Sometimes I put it in the oven at 425 degrees for 25-30 minutes. Tastes great. I also use a full fat mozzarella with either a provalone or munster blend. Jets uses just a mozzarella provalone blend from Grande I believe. I also make my own pepperoni.
Title: Re: Jets pizza
Post by: DetroitPizzaGirl on December 21, 2017, 06:00:56 PM
Hello Everyone, it's been many months since I made a pizza trial - and finally I made another attempt today, and (I think) I got even closer to the Jet's taste.  I used my last recipe from Reply #251 (https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=8247.msg472672#msg472672 (https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=8247.msg472672#msg472672))

... but  made a few changes:

- I bought smaller pans 8x10 inch size from www.detroitstylepizza.com
- I tweaked the sauce (thank you Segfault for the feedback - I reduced the granulated garlic in HALF... down to 1/8 teaspoon... and I did indeed like it better)
- I put 4 TBSP corn oil (mazola) in each 8x10 pan (perhaps next time I'll just do 3 TBSP) AND... I sprinkled some salt onto the oil on the bottom of the pan, and I think that gave the crust a saltier flavor actually... it tasted pretty good.
- I cooked the pizza on 425 Farenheit for 20 minutes (on a special oven setting that roasts the bottom and circulates the hot air on top)

THE RESULT?
- Finally the bottom is getting crunchier.  Not 100% to where I want... but like 70% there. The smaller pan size definitely makes a difference to disperse the heat more and the middle bottom of the pizza gets crunchier.

NEXT TIME
- Next time I think I will try to reduce the heat and cook it a bit longer perhaps. Might help to get crunchier bottom. Or perhaps I have to buy a pizza stone...
- I'm also curious about this "WHIRL" oil/butter... I also have the feeling there must be some additional flavour on the crust... there is something else there other than just oil. It tastes buttery/salty...
Title: Re: Jets pizza
Post by: hotsawce on April 01, 2018, 03:34:53 PM
Iím curious, did anyone ever figure out what time and temp Jets bakes at for square pies?

Iíve not had one of their Squared, but the crunchy bottom sounds excellent to me and Iíd like to try achieving it.
Title: Re: Jets pizza
Post by: Qarl on April 03, 2018, 05:01:05 PM
I've got some "Jet's Bread" in the works...

Waiting for 2nd rise to complete.
Title: Re: Jets pizza
Post by: Qarl on April 03, 2018, 08:18:45 PM
So this was my take on Jets Bread...   Basically round, deep-dish garlic cheese bread.   The menu states it is topped with mozarella, butter, garlic, and romano cheese.

This was mixed using Wingold Special flour.  It's 12.2% protein, bleached and enriched hard wheat flour product from Bay State Milling.  Found this at my local Restaurant Depot and had them send me the Spec Sheet.. attached

I basically followed Pete-zza's recipe on post #194

https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=8247.msg413711#msg413711 (https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=8247.msg413711#msg413711)

Pete had calculated 340 gram dough balls for an 8x10 square deep-dish Jet's pizza,  I think Jet's actually makes 10-inch round Jet's bread.  Unfortunately, I only have a 12-inch pan.  Coincidentally, the area of 10-inch round is almost 80 inches (78.5), so I venture to guess they use the same dough ball for the 10-inch round Jet's Bread as they do on the 8x10 square.

340 grams for 80 square inches is roughly 4.25 grams/square inch. So extrapolating for my larger pan, I came up with a goal of 480 grams!

I rounded Pet's numbers, but dropped the yeast percentage a bit.  I also lowered the hydration by 1% since this wasn't a super strong flour (only 12.2% protein). I didn't want it too sticky...

Flour = 100%
Water = 64%
ADY = .65%
Salt = 1.25%
Sugar = .85%

Thickness factor of .15 with 2% wastage  For me... a 490 gram ball -


Making the Garlic "butter" oil...

Ahead of time, I mixed 1/2 cup (about 4 TBS) of Whirl butter-flavored oil with 1/2 tsp garlic powder.  I warmed it up, whisked it and let it sit for a few hours.  (Whirl also makes a garlic flavored oil which I suspect they use at Jet's).

When you go to their website and look up the nutritional information, their garlic butter is basically the soy-bean oil-based butter flavored Whirl with garlic added.  No "real" butter is used.


Making the dough...

To make the dough, I added the water and yeast first and mixed. Then dumped in sugar and mixed.  Then dumped in half the flour... mixed on low for a minute, then the remaining flour water... mixed a minute... salt last. Mixed 8 minutes more with a rest half way through.  Dough was not too sticky. Nice and smooth and light and airy.

I balled and did first rise in oiled container for 90 minutes in oven with light on.

I added 2 TBS butter-flavored Whirl to the PSTK coated 12-inch round pan and then spread dough out with my fingertips until it was about 90% to the edge.  Covered with plastic wrap and let rise another 90 minutes.


Prep time...

First, I brushed on 3 TBS of the garlic butter-flavored oil onto the risen dough.  Go around the perimeter and press the edges down (I noticed this in a video online). You can see it in the photo below with the garlic oil added. 

On top,  I added 8 ounces of shredded mozzarella (I used Restaurant Depot Supremo New York Cheese blend).  And did a light sprinkling of finely grated Romano cheese on top of that.


The Bake...

Placed a 1-inch corderite stone on bottom rack and preheated oven to 475 degrees for about an hour with convection fan running. Wanted that stone nice and hot!

Convection fan switched OFF. Placed pan directly on top of stone for 15 minutes rotating once half-way through. 

Came right out of pan (no-stick) and placed it on a cooling rack and cooled for a minute or two.  A traditional Jet's Bread cut is once down the middle, and then 4 or 5 cross cuts to make "bread sticks".

Sprinkled on more Romano cheese and serve with some tomato dipping sauce.


The Verdict...

Outstanding!!! As close as I can remember.  The right amount of cheese.  Crunch on the bottom.  Soft inside... garlicy but not overboard.  It wasn't overly greasy.

I totally surprised my wife... she LOVES Jet's Bread.  She literally was jumping up and down all excited. I think I scored some major points.
Title: Re: Jets pizza
Post by: Qarl on April 03, 2018, 08:21:01 PM
My copy and the REAL deal
Title: Re: Jets pizza
Post by: Qarl on April 03, 2018, 08:29:40 PM
I forgot to add the spec sheets on the Wingold Special

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1RmAuBFLykptxoSSprGgKJlNN1VhGwZIn/view?usp=sharing (https://drive.google.com/file/d/1RmAuBFLykptxoSSprGgKJlNN1VhGwZIn/view?usp=sharing)

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1I-yAfJL0sTgkQO0lQEnhTeqpDRbbXYmD/view?usp=sharing (https://drive.google.com/file/d/1I-yAfJL0sTgkQO0lQEnhTeqpDRbbXYmD/view?usp=sharing)
Title: Re: Jets pizza
Post by: foreplease on April 03, 2018, 08:51:12 PM
That is quite a project, Qarl. Nice work. It appears pizza is bread afterall  :-D
Title: Re: Jets pizza
Post by: norma427 on April 03, 2018, 10:42:44 PM
So this was my take on Jets Bread...   Basically round, deep-dish garlic cheese bread.   The menu states it is topped with mozarella, butter, garlic, and romano cheese.

This was mixed using Wingold Special flour.  It's 12.2% protein, bleached and enriched hard wheat flour product from Bay State Milling.  Found this at my local Restaurant Depot and had them send me the Spec Sheet.. attached

I basically followed Pete-zza's recipe on post #194

https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=8247.msg413711#msg413711 (https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=8247.msg413711#msg413711)

Pete had calculated 340 gram dough balls for an 8x10 square deep-dish Jet's pizza,  I think Jet's actually makes 10-inch round Jet's bread.  Unfortunately, I only have a 12-inch pan.  Coincidentally, the area of 10-inch round is almost 80 inches (78.5), so I venture to guess they use the same dough ball for the 10-inch round Jet's Bread as they do on the 8x10 square.

340 grams for 80 square inches is roughly 4.25 grams/square inch. So extrapolating for my larger pan, I came up with a goal of 480 grams!

I rounded Pet's numbers, but dropped the yeast percentage a bit.  I also lowered the hydration by 1% since this wasn't a super strong flour (only 12.2% protein). I didn't want it too sticky...

Flour = 100%
Water = 64%
ADY = .65%
Salt = 1.25%
Sugar = .85%

Thickness factor of .15 with 2% wastage  For me... a 490 gram ball -


Making the Garlic "butter" oil...

Ahead of time, I mixed 1/2 cup (about 4 TBS) of Whirl butter-flavored oil with 1/2 tsp garlic powder.  I warmed it up, whisked it and let it sit for a few hours.  (Whirl also makes a garlic flavored oil which I suspect they use at Jet's).

When you go to their website and look up the nutritional information, their garlic butter is basically the soy-bean oil-based butter flavored Whirl with garlic added.  No "real" butter is used.


Making the dough...

To make the dough, I added the water and yeast first and mixed. Then dumped in sugar and mixed.  Then dumped in half water... mixed on low for a minute, then remaing water... mixed a minute... salt last. Mixed 8 minutes more with a rest half way through.  Dough was not too sticky. Nice and smooth and light and airy.

I balled and did first rise in oiled container for 90 minutes in oven with light on.

I added 2 TBS butter-flavored Whirl to the PSTK coated 12-inch round pan and then spread dough out with my fingertips until it was about 90% to the edge.  Covered with plastic wrap and let rise another 90 minutes.


Prep time...

First, I brushed on 3 TBS of the garlic butter-flavored oil onto the risen dough.  Go around the perimeter and press the edges down (I noticed this in a video online). You can see it in the photo below with the garlic oil added. 

On top,  I added 8 ounces of shredded mozzarella (I used Restaurant Depot Supremo New York Cheese blend).  And did a light sprinkling of finely grated Romano cheese on top of that.


The Bake...

Placed a 1-inch corderite stone on bottom rack and preheated oven to 475 degrees for about an hour with convection fan running. Wanted that stone nice and hot!

Convection fan switched OFF. Placed pan directly on top of stone for 15 minutes rotating once half-way through. 

Came right out of pan (no-stick) and placed it on a cooling rack and cooled for a minute or two.  A traditional Jet's Bread cut is once down the middle, and then 4 or 5 cross cuts to make "bread sticks".

Sprinkled on more Romano cheese and serve with some tomato dipping sauce.


The Verdict...

Outstanding!!! As close as I can remember.  The right amount of cheese.  Crunch on the bottom.  Soft inside... garlicy but not overboard.  It wasn't overly greasy.

I totally surprised my wife... she LOVES Jet's Bread.  She literally was jumping up and down all excited. I think I scored some major points.

Great job Qarl!   :drool: :chef: :chef:

Norma
Title: Re: Jets pizza
Post by: hotsawce on August 29, 2018, 12:17:30 PM
I know this thread hasn't been posted in for a while, but for those of you that have had Jets, is the bottom really crispy? Or crunchy? I'm curious. I watched a video recently that said they bake for 10 minutes - I've never had a Jet's pie but I know their "crunch" is supposed to be a big part of their brand.
Title: Re: Jets pizza
Post by: foreplease on August 29, 2018, 06:11:24 PM
Bottom has a nice crisp. The area closer to toppings could usully benefit from a longer bake - being more done and less gummy, however you would choose to change the bake to achieve this. We order these because my wife likes them. A few months ago I had the pleasure of joining Hans at Buddyís original in Detroit. If I were going to work on one it would be that or Hansís own version.
Title: Re: Jets pizza
Post by: hotsawce on August 29, 2018, 08:10:11 PM
any details on the length of Buddy's bake? I've had a buddy's frozen pie and wasn't impressed. I assume a longer bake and lower temp in those ovens will give more crunch...

Bottom has a nice crisp. The area closer to toppings could usully benefit from a longer bake - being more done and less gummy, however you would choose to change the bake to achieve this. We order these because my wife likes them. A few months ago I had the pleasure of joining Hans at Buddyís original in Detroit. If I were going to work on one it would be that or Hansís own version.
Title: Re: Jets pizza
Post by: foreplease on August 29, 2018, 09:04:44 PM
No, I was not privy to the details. Hans may know. Buddyís has it figured out though :)
Title: Re: Jets pizza
Post by: HansB on September 02, 2018, 11:37:07 AM
any details on the length of Buddy's bake? I've had a buddy's frozen pie and wasn't impressed. I assume a longer bake and lower temp in those ovens will give more crunch...

Lou, your pizza at Emmy2 was very similar to Buddies.
Title: Re: Jets pizza
Post by: exchicagogal on May 14, 2019, 01:20:59 PM
Hey guys, is there a way to tweak Pete's formula to fit two 8*8 cake pans. I'm making this weekend, I plan on using whirl and my baking steel for the bake. Any advice on a temp and time with that set up? Thanks!
Title: Re: Jets pizza
Post by: exchicagogal on May 19, 2019, 01:24:17 PM
I found the dough calculator and I am done with this recipe. It is very-very similar to Jet's. It was so good and easy that we've had it twice in the past few days.

Here's how I did it.

The Dough, I followed Qarl's formula from an earlier reply but I'll repost here for ease.

Sqaure Pizza Place Clone

KABF  (100%):    332.96 g  |  11.74 oz | 0.73 lbs
Water (64%):    213.09 g  |  7.52 oz | 0.47 lbs
ADY (0.65%):    2.16 g | 0.08 oz | 0 lbs | 0.57 tsp | 0.19 tbsp
Salt (1.25%):    4.16 g | 0.15 oz | 0.01 lbs | 0.75 tsp | 0.25 tbsp
Sugar (0.85%):    2.83 g | 0.1 oz | 0.01 lbs | 0.71 tsp | 0.24 tbsp
Total (166.75%):   555.21 g | 19.58 oz | 1.22 lbs | TF = 0.153
Single Ball:   277.6 g | 9.79 oz | 0.61 lbs

I used a thickness factor of 0.15 and a bowl residue of 2%. The recipe above produces 2 dough balls.

I warmed the water and added the sugar then threw in the yeast. The yeast in this recipe is equivalent to 1/4 tsp and 1/3 tsp. I then left the yeast to puff up for a little and once frothy, I threw it in my stand mixer bowl with all the other ingredients. I then needed on medium-high for 8 minutes.

I brushed my dough ball with some oil and then placed in an oven with the light on. The first time I let it rise for 90 minutes and that actually felt too long as the dough ball overflowed the bowl. The second time I made it , I was short on time, so I put a bowl of boiling hot water in the oven with the dough ball. The dough took 45 minutes to 'double in size' with the oven light on. It was perfect, I'll definitely be sticking with the hot water method.

Next, I brought out my two pans. I did purchase Whirl, it was 15 bucks on Amazon so I thought ... why not? However, my BF mentioned that you could probably just used a butter-flavored cooking spray and get the same results. Nevertheless, I used 1 tablespoon and 1 teaspoon of Whirl per pan. I then weighed my dough balls out and pressed them into each pan. Nice thing about this recipe is you don't need roll out the dough at all and it's so easy to work with it just pushes into the pan beautifully.

I then used the same hot water trick with the oven light and let the dough fill into the pans for about 25 minutes. Then, I took my pans out of the oven and let them continue to rise while I prepped the oven. I used my DoughJoe 1/4 inch baking steel in the middle rack and preheated to 480. I let the steel heat up for about 10-15 minutes while I prepped my pizza.

I used Clasico pizza sauce (a basic but really good tasting pizza sauce that I can get locally) then I topped with 4 oz of Cheese. For cheese, I've found that Trader Joe's Lite Mozzarella is my favorite cheese. While most lite cheeses aren't very good, I've found that this Lite cheese for some reason this cheese comes out weirdly similar to the cheese on chain-pizzerias. Everything from the melt, to the way it streches and tastes just reminds me of a chain-pizzeria place like Pizza Hut or Domino's. Not sure if anyone knows why or maybe if these chains are using a similar type of mozzarella (maybe using it to save money as it's cheaper to make?). If you have a Trader Joe's near you, I highly recommend you try it and let me know your thoughts.

I used Turkey Pepperoni. I then baked my pies on the steel at 480 for 16 minutes which seems to be the magic number for a crispy crust and crunch cheese edges. One thing to note, is the first night I made this I felt the cheese baked to fast so the pictures aren't amazing. I didn't take any pictures the second night but I found that putting down a sheet of foil above the pizzas at 8 minutes and then taking it off when the pizzas have about 2 minutes left to cook, created a perfect cheese melt.

Overall, this was about as close to Jet's as I needed it to be. I'm sure I could try some of the sauce recipes on this thread to get it closer but this was fine. It actually was really easy and for an emergency type recipe produced a really really fluffy crust.


I have some pictures below, like I said the cheese on the first night's pizza was a little more well done than I would like but aside from that, everything was perfect.

If anyone wants to chime in about the Trader Joe's cheese ... I'm still not sure why a 'light' cheese comes out better than the 'regular' cheese?



Title: Re: Jets pizza
Post by: foreplease on May 19, 2019, 05:09:00 PM
That is a great result, exchicagogal!
Title: Re: Jets pizza
Post by: greggw2gs on November 24, 2019, 05:23:51 PM
Man just what I was looking for!  Thank you for sharing!

Do you think my KA High Gluten flour will be good too?

Thanks Gregg
Title: Re: Jets pizza
Post by: briansemerick on February 25, 2020, 10:30:48 AM
Those who order from DetroitStylePizza.com for pans, do you get the seasoned?  I'm fine seasoning my pans and would rather not spend $13 more for them to do it, unless they really do some sort of magic job on it.
Title: Re: Jets pizza
Post by: ellementz on March 28, 2020, 02:16:09 PM
Hey guys, I work at Jet's Pizza so if there is any questions I can answer to help you out let me know.


Attached is my homemade Jet's Pizza for reference.
Title: Re: Jets pizza
Post by: foreplease on March 28, 2020, 02:38:43 PM
Welcome to the forum, ellementz. That is a great looking pizza.
Title: Re: Jets pizza
Post by: Pizza_Not_War on March 28, 2020, 03:23:01 PM
ellementz, another welcome and request for details on how to make that great looking pizza. Assuming of course that it won't get you fired!
Title: Re: Jets pizza
Post by: Chicago Bob on March 28, 2020, 04:00:15 PM
Hey guys, I work at Jet's Pizza so if there is any questions I can answer to help you out let me know.


Attached is my homemade Jet's Pizza for reference.
welcome aboard e that's great looking pizza there!  :chef:
Title: Re: Jets pizza
Post by: ellementz on March 28, 2020, 04:26:24 PM
ellementz, another welcome and request for details on how to make that great looking pizza. Assuming of course that it won't get you fired!

Here's a quick breakdown

[Dough]
2 cups of water
4 1/2 cups flour ( I use 3 cups bread flour and 1 1/2 cups of 00 flour)
1/2 tbsp salt
1/2 tbsp sugar
1 tsp yeast (we use Red Star)

In a bowl/mixer add the water at 100-110 degrees, the yeast and the sugar. Allow yeast to bloom for 10 minutes. Then add the salt and flour and mix for 5 minutes (10 minutes or so if hand kneading)

Small= 12 oz dough ball
Large= 21oz dough ball
X-Large= 32oz dough ball

Make your dough balls accordingly and let them rest 10-15 minutes, while they are resting grab your Detroit style pizza pan and to it add 2-4oz of corn oil (Jet's uses corn oil, a lot of it lol) I personally have a XL pan so I use 4 oz, for a large pan use 2-3oz.

After you dough sits for 10-15 minutes lightly oil your work surface and push the dough out flat and form a sort of rectangle, pick the dough up and slap it back and forth between your hands to stretch it (if you don't feel comfortable doing this just stretch it out best you can on your work surface) now place the dough into your pan and starting with one end push the edges into the corners and turn the pan around and do the same with the other side. Now using your fingertips press down hard up one side then up the other over the area of the pan.

Now just cover the pan with a towel, lid, whatever and allow to sit out for 4-5 hours 70-80 degrees or until the dough has risen about half way up the pan. Now you can cook it or refrigerate it.

I baked mine at 550 degrees for 15 minutes

Quick edit to add a little more information. We get our cheese from Grande, it's a whole milk mozzarella. I figure any whole milk mozzarella or brick cheese if you like that better will do nicely, always shred your own cheese though!

As for the pepperoni, Jet's uses a self labeled Jet's pepperoni that they get from Sofo food distributors so not sure exactly what brand.

If you can find ezzo pepperoni in your area I would recommend those or Boars Head is good too.

Title: Re: Jets pizza
Post by: Chicago Bob on March 28, 2020, 09:15:46 PM
Is the dough used at Jets pizzaria a same day dough? 
Title: Re: Jets pizza
Post by: ellementz on March 29, 2020, 12:28:51 AM
Is the dough used at Jets pizzaria a same day dough?

Yes, we make the square dough in the morning and it is used in the evening. Our round dough needs to proof for a couple days.
Title: Re: Jets pizza
Post by: hotsawce on March 29, 2020, 01:20:44 PM
Welcome! this is awesome.

How does Jet's get the dough to fill the pan evenly with the large amount of oil in the pan? Mine springs back quite a bit when I use oil

Here's a quick breakdown

[Dough]
2 cups of water
4 1/2 cups flour ( I use 3 cups bread flour and 1 1/2 cups of 00 flour)
1/2 tbsp salt
1/2 tbsp sugar
1 tsp yeast (we use Red Star)

In a bowl/mixer add the water at 100-110 degrees, the yeast and the sugar. Allow yeast to bloom for 10 minutes. Then add the salt and flour and mix for 5 minutes (10 minutes or so if hand kneading)

Small= 12 oz dough ball
Large= 21oz dough ball
X-Large= 32oz dough ball

Make your dough balls accordingly and let them rest 10-15 minutes, while they are resting grab your Detroit style pizza pan and to it add 2-4oz of corn oil (Jet's uses corn oil, a lot of it lol) I personally have a XL pan so I use 4 oz, for a large pan use 2-3oz.

After you dough sits for 10-15 minutes lightly oil your work surface and push the dough out flat and form a sort of rectangle, pick the dough up and slap it back and forth between your hands to stretch it (if you don't feel comfortable doing this just stretch it out best you can on your work surface) now place the dough into your pan and starting with one end push the edges into the corners and turn the pan around and do the same with the other side. Now using your fingertips press down hard up one side then up the other over the area of the pan.

Now just cover the pan with a towel, lid, whatever and allow to sit out for 4-5 hours 70-80 degrees or until the dough has risen about half way up the pan. Now you can cook it or refrigerate it.

I baked mine at 550 degrees for 15 minutes

Quick edit to add a little more information. We get our cheese from Grande, it's a whole milk mozzarella. I figure any whole milk mozzarella or brick cheese if you like that better will do nicely, always shred your own cheese though!

As for the pepperoni, Jet's uses a self labeled Jet's pepperoni that they get from Sofo food distributors so not sure exactly what brand.

If you can find ezzo pepperoni in your area I would recommend those or Boars Head is good too.
Title: Re: Jets pizza
Post by: ellementz on March 30, 2020, 02:46:34 AM
Welcome! this is awesome.

How does Jet's get the dough to fill the pan evenly with the large amount of oil in the pan? Mine springs back quite a bit when I use oil


If you're having issues with it trying to stretch back then after you first give it its initial stretch and place it in the pan just cover it and let it rise for maybe an hour or so then dock it, should have no trouble at that point.
Title: Re: Jets pizza
Post by: briansemerick on April 14, 2020, 12:14:55 PM
thank you!  how about sauce?
Title: Re: Jets pizza
Post by: Pizza Journey on April 20, 2020, 02:36:53 PM
Am I doing the math right on your recipe? I know cups of flour are a bit subjective, but does 81% sound right for the hydration level?

2 cups water: ~474g
4.5 cups flour: ~585g

81% hydration.

Edit: I made it as written by ellementz, and this has got to be the stretchiest dough I've ever worked with! My food processor's dough blade doesn't "lock" (it's held in by gravity, Cuisinart) and the dough knocked it loose after about 2 minutes of mixing. Seemed like plenty though. Got it rising in the pan right now-- excited to eat this. I will update with results.

ellementz recipe scaled to the "large" 21oz doughball:
262g water
325g flour
1 tsp salt
1 tsp sugar
1/2 tsp IDY

corn oil in pan

Post-eating update: This is a great recipe! I probably could have cooked it a few minutes longer but it was delicious. The high hydration was indeed great and I will certainly be making this one again. I used to love Jet's but haven't had it in years since I relocated to another state. This is it! Thanks ellementz!
Title: Re: Jets pizza
Post by: Movefast on May 04, 2020, 11:06:03 PM
What size of pans would correlate to the three size pans you listed so we know the appropriate dough to make for the size?

You use the XL size you said, whatís the measurements and the recipe you posted, I would assume thatís for an XL pan??

Would avocado oil work or regular extra virgin olive oil work?


Thanks!!! That Pizza looks amazing
Title: Re: Jets pizza
Post by: Chi_Guy on May 12, 2020, 05:17:33 PM
Iíve found that a combination of ghee and corn oil gives me a similar crispness to Jetís.  Still need to figure out how to replicate their Turbocrust flavor though.
Title: Re: Jets pizza
Post by: briansemerick on May 23, 2020, 01:14:16 PM
I made this recipe with a 10x14 pan and it was like DOUBLE the thickness of Jet's.  It was good but it was almost all crust.  I'm going to halve it this time.

I think the issue is the recipe is just for a generic amount of dough that you then later cut into certain weights to use, but the average person makes one pizza, so they just the amounts for one pizza.
Title: Re: Jets pizza
Post by: briansemerick on May 23, 2020, 06:48:27 PM
Much better this time. 500 for 20 minutes.

10x14 pan

10 oz sauce (6 in 1 unpeeled plus 1tbsp oregano, 1/2 tsp salt, 1/2 tsp granulated garlic, 1/2 tsp sugar, stirred and left to sit an hour)

1lb mozz

Pizza journeyís 21oz dough:

262g water
325g flour
1 tsp salt
1 tsp sugar
1/2 tsp IDY

1lb Italian sausage cooked

Dusted with oregano and Parmesan

2oz corn oil in pan

Yummy.

Title: Re: Jets pizza
Post by: Chicago Bob on May 23, 2020, 07:55:51 PM
That looks great!  :chef:

You can apply sausage raw on there if you'd like more flavor.  :pizza:
Title: Re: Jets pizza
Post by: foreplease on May 23, 2020, 09:53:30 PM
That looks great!  :chef:

You can apply sausage raw on there if you'd like more flavor.  :pizza:
Iím thinking at a pound of sausage per pizza weíre going to be able to taste it to some extent.  :-D 


We had a couple from Jets 2 nights ago. Reheated what was left tonight (almost a full 8-corner) and served with pasta. I think their pizza is better the second time around.
Title: Re: Jets pizza
Post by: Chicago Bob on May 23, 2020, 10:30:17 PM
Iím thinking at a pound of sausage per pizza weíre going to be able to taste it to some extent.  :-D 


We had a couple from Jets 2 nights ago. Reheated what was left tonight (almost a full 8-corner) and served with pasta. I think their pizza is better the second time around.

   One can put 2lbs of sausage on there if they want.... But finished pie taste will be different than one baked utilizing raw meat... :drool:

Most non neopolitan commercial pizza will have better flavors the second time around.... Experienced reheaters can make a reheat better... Plus some!  💪🔥🍕🌴
Title: Re: Jets pizza
Post by: briansemerick on June 10, 2020, 02:37:27 PM
Yeah thatís because of the reaction the cheese has when melting the first time lets it congeal so the second heating keeps it more solid. Usually the sauce and cheese is too liquid when itís hot out of the oven.
Title: Re: Jets pizza
Post by: briansemerick on June 10, 2020, 02:38:18 PM
That looks great!  :chef:

You can apply sausage raw on there if you'd like more flavor.  :pizza:

I prefer cooking ahead to get the carmelized sausage taste plus I can drain the grease off.
Title: Re: Jets pizza
Post by: PizzaJason on June 16, 2020, 09:38:39 AM
Jets dough is very light and bubbly, indicating high yeast and high moisture dough.  I think the dough is very wet loose,  layed in pan with LOT of oil and allowed to rise in the pan.    Pat it down and top.
Consider a conveyor oven can vary the temp as it passes thru on top and bottom,  so they may hit it with different temps thru the cooking stage.
Title: Re: Jets pizza
Post by: jkb on June 16, 2020, 09:45:58 AM
Much better this time. 500 for 20 minutes.

10x14 pan

10 oz sauce (6 in 1 unpeeled plus 1tbsp oregano, 1/2 tsp salt, 1/2 tsp granulated garlic, 1/2 tsp sugar, stirred and left to sit an hour)

1lb mozz

Pizza journeyís 21oz dough:

262g water
325g flour
1 tsp salt
1 tsp sugar
1/2 tsp IDY

1lb Italian sausage cooked

Dusted with oregano and Parmesan

2oz corn oil in pan

Yummy.


Nice!
Title: Re: Jets pizza
Post by: c0rpse on June 26, 2020, 11:08:01 AM
Hey everyone. I saw the note above about being hard to stretch in the pan etc but just to add to that.

I find that when I'm trying to stretch in the pan a lot of the pan oil tends to get up on TOP of the dough and when baked this tends to kind of screw up the cheese and toppings a little bit. It's never really baking right as there's just too much oil etc

Any thoughts on how I can avoid this? The crust itself is turning out great. Just not the cheese bake.
Title: Re: Jets pizza
Post by: bobgraff on June 27, 2020, 03:06:24 PM
Hey everyone. I saw the note above about being hard to stretch in the pan etc but just to add to that.

I find that when I'm trying to stretch in the pan a lot of the pan oil tends to get up on TOP of the dough and when baked this tends to kind of screw up the cheese and toppings a little bit. It's never really baking right as there's just too much oil etc

Any thoughts on how I can avoid this? The crust itself is turning out great. Just not the cheese bake.

Try coating the pan with vegetable shortening in place of the oil.
Title: Re: Jets pizza
Post by: Pizza Journey on June 28, 2020, 10:40:40 AM
Made this again last night... absolutely fantastic! Definitely a contender for the best pizza I have ever made.

15 minute bake at 500 degrees. Raw Italian sausage & Bridgeford pepperoni. Whole milk mozz with some cheddar sprinkled in around the edges. The crunch on the bottom was perfect, and the dough was airy and spongy and excellent.

21 oz recipe (my pan is 9x13 inches approx, which is the perfect size for the 21oz dough):
262g water
325g flour
1 tsp salt
1 tsp sugar
1/2 tsp IDY

Title: Re: Jets pizza
Post by: foreplease on June 28, 2020, 11:29:16 AM
Made this again last night... absolutely fantastic! Definitely a contender for the best pizza I have ever made.

15 minute bake at 500 degrees. Raw Italian sausage & Bridgeford pepperoni. Whole milk mozz with some cheddar sprinkled in around the edges. The crunch on the bottom was perfect, and the dough was airy and spongy and excellent.

21 oz recipe (my pan is 9x13 inches approx, which is the perfect size for the 21oz dough):
262g water
325g flour
1 tsp salt
1 tsp sugar
1/2 tsp IDY
That looks fantastic, PJ!
Title: Re: Jets pizza
Post by: Pizza Journey on June 29, 2020, 10:17:51 AM
That looks fantastic, PJ!
Thank you!

The dough is so wet and sticky that it's kind of a pain to work with; the key seems to be to let it rise in the (covered) pan at room temp and then pat it out/stretch it over the course of a few hours until it fills the pan and looks like my first picture. But the high hydration is spot on for the Jet's style, so it's worth the effort. I highly recommend giving this recipe a try if you're a fan of Detroit style pizza!
Title: Re: Jets pizza
Post by: PizzaJason on July 07, 2020, 07:09:43 PM
I gave this a test run, wow, very good and super easy.  Ive sent this out to friends who are skeptical that they can make good pizza at home,  rising the dough in the pan keeps them kneading and stretching, no special equipment - so the fear factor goes down.

Dough recipe
2 1/2 C flour, hard scoop into the cup and leveled
1 1/4 C warm water, went high on the water for a self leveling dough
1/2 tsp yeast - fleishmans quick
1 tsp sugar,  1/2 tsp salt mixed into flour

9x13 metal cake pan

Easy to mix, 3 tbsn corn oil in the pan,  dusted some course cornmeal in the pan for flavor, finger tip it flat to the edge.
4 hour countertop rise.

Sauce (hearty)
14 oz crushed tomato,
1/2 can tomato paste
1 Tbsp oregano
2 tsp basil
2 tsp garlic powder
S&P
1 Tbsp olive oil
Few sprigs of rosemary
Tomato paste was sweet, splash of balsamic evened it out.

550 12 min.  Cheese was overdone, I will loosely tent with foil next go round or lay a baking sheet partially over the pan.

This will be a go-to recipe for me now.  My family likes JETS,  super easy.   I can see proofing this in the oven, or doing a refrigerated rise to make it fast or slow.  Prep before or after work and have pizza that night.



Title: Re: Jets pizza
Post by: regor0 on July 21, 2020, 05:23:50 PM
Are you cooking it on a stone or just the rack?
Title: Re: Jets pizza
Post by: Pete-zza on August 04, 2020, 09:42:05 AM
Jetís is celebrating its 42nd anniversary:

http://www.restaurantnews.com/jets-pizza-celebrates-42nd-anniversary-080320/

What I found interesting is the statement that the dough is prepared every morning by hand. IĎm not quite sure what that means.

Peter
Title: Re: Jets pizza
Post by: Fullcollapsea110 on August 19, 2020, 11:07:35 PM
Hey all!

First post here. Tried out Norma's recipe in reply 94 http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,8247.msg151463.html#msg151463 modified for my 8X10" steel pan.

My attempt was as follows:

204g KABF
133g H20
1/4tsp IDY
1/2tsp Overflowing sea salt
1tsp Sugar
228g Mozzarella
Just some sauce I had around from my Buddy's pizza's

- Mixed in KA mixer on 2 for 5min and 4 for 3 min
- Covered and let rest for 20 min
- Balled and oiled dough (corn oil) and put in the refrigerator for ~24hrs
- Removed from fridge let warm for about 45 minutes used 2tbs corn oil to oil the pan then stretched dough into pan (one stretch, then let rest for 20 min and one final stretch). Let the dough rise for 3 hours
- Pizza stone on bottom rack preheated @ 525 for 1.5hrs
- Before I put the pie in I turned down the temp to 500 then cooked for 14 minutes (could have done a few minutes longer but was worried about getting that nice doughy top right under the cheese

Results:


Title: Re: Jets pizza
Post by: Fullcollapsea110 on August 19, 2020, 11:15:48 PM
Next time I'll keep it in a few minutes longer to get the center of the cheese cooked better, reduce the dough ever so slightly to cut down on the thickness, and reduce the cheese at the sides of the pan because the cheese creeped to the bottom of the sides a bit too much.

-Justin
Title: Re: Jets pizza
Post by: scott r on December 04, 2020, 11:14:50 PM
I grabbed pies from Jet's and another Detroit style pizzeria today.   Jets had much better crust and the other place had especially great toppings, but the crust was too thick and dense.   Im down with Jets! I didnt detect any whirl, and I was looking for it, but it definitely had a light and especially crunchy crust.

Peter, I highly doubt they are mixing by hand.  I think thats just marketing worded to sound like they might be, when really they are just saying the dough is put into pans by hand.  There was an 80qt Hobart front and center.

Worth a try if you have a chance to try Jet's.
Title: Re: Jets pizza
Post by: wilson502 on January 12, 2021, 01:08:10 AM
Hello All,

This is my first post here, I have been a lurker for sometime, anyway, I tried out ellementz's recipe on reply 297 https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=8247.msg612869#msg612869. I made a couple of tweaks to it by doing an overnight ferment instead of same day, and substituted sugar for Honey.

For the flour I used Central Milling High Mountain Bread Flour and Tony Gemingnani's 00 Flour from Central Milling. I used a 50/50 mix of Bella Rosano WMLM and Northbeach PSM.

This was about a 13 minute bake at 500F (convection) with a stone on top and steel on bottom in a 11x14 Lloyd Industries Detroit Style Pan. I did 7 minutes on the top stone, and the remaining 6 minutes on the bottom steel.

This pizza came out so good! The flavor and texture of the pizza was absolutely spot on. It reminded me of a Little Caesars Deep Dish but way better.
Title: Re: Jets pizza
Post by: foreplease on January 14, 2021, 01:45:16 PM
Nice work, wilson502. Welcome to the forum.
Title: Re: Jets pizza
Post by: Pizza_TSS on February 07, 2021, 05:05:47 PM
Hello All...This was about a 13 minute bake at 500F (convection) with a stone on top and steel on bottom in a 11x14 Lloyd Industries Detroit Style Pan. I did 7 minutes on the top stone, and the remaining 6 minutes on the bottom  The flavor and texture of the pizza was absolutely spot on. It reminded me of a Little Caesars Deep Dish but way better.

Wilson502, that is a very respectable looking version of a Jetís crust. The sides and bottom of the crust look like they have the Jetís magic. I havenít attempted to duplicate Jetís because I live in a town that has a Jetís. If I want one, I order one. I dedicate my home pizza making to other styles. But you can bet that if I ever move away, Iíll be doing what you just did!
Title: Re: Jets pizza
Post by: soulpatch on February 10, 2021, 01:04:39 PM
So who's recipe came closest to jetts crust?  I'm running 10X14 lloyds pans and have been using HansB's recipe to duplicate a traditional "buddy's" crust, but really also want to do a jets style since my wife/son like that one more.  I've read this entire forum but so many have had good ideas, techniques, etc.  So which one came out closest to jets?  I can't run up to the store and pick one up, it's unfortunately a 16 hour drive for me now lol 
Title: Re: Jets pizza
Post by: wilson502 on March 07, 2021, 02:32:01 PM
So who's recipe came closest to jetts crust?  I'm running 10X14 lloyds pans and have been using HansB's recipe to duplicate a traditional "buddy's" crust, but really also want to do a jets style since my wife/son like that one more.  I've read this entire forum but so many have had good ideas, techniques, etc.  So which one came out closest to jets?  I can't run up to the store and pick one up, it's unfortunately a 16 hour drive for me now lol

I got really good results from Ellementz recipe as indicated in my post. His post indicated he is a current employee of Jets, so I would say his recipe is a pretty good indication of the real thing.
Title: Re: Jets pizza
Post by: billschultz on March 30, 2021, 10:21:24 PM
Hello everyone,
I've been following this post for quite a while, and I've tried a couple of the different recipes that have been posted. I have made Ellementz recipe quite a few times with great results, but have recently lowered the hydration to 65% to get a dough that looks closer to how Jet's dough looks in the various videos posted online. The higher hydration never seemed to for a good ball for me, and just seemed to flatten out like a blob. Wether doing the higher hydration at 75-80% or at 65%, I always seem to have an issue with applying the sauce. The dough gets a good rise in the pan after a few hours, but when applying the sauce the dough starts to collapse. I try to be gentle and not apply too much sauce once, but that same thing always happens. When watching the videos of Jet's employees applying sauce the dough seems to stay rigid at the same thickness. In fact, I've seen videos where they seem to lightly pat their hands down on the dough before applying sauce. The dough doesn't seem to drop at all after patting it and then with the sauce. Am I missing a step? The pizza Im making turns out pretty well, but I'm just always looking for ways to improve. Thanks!
Title: Re: Jets pizza
Post by: amolapizza on April 02, 2021, 02:52:26 PM
Maybe you let it rise too much, it might be better to let it rise less so that the dough still has some structure and oven spring.  But it's just a guess..!

Edit: Or you have to develop more strength in you dough.