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Author Topic: NY Style sauce discussion  (Read 77305 times)

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Offline woodfiredandrew

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Re: NY Style sauce discussion
« Reply #560 on: November 02, 2020, 04:26:42 PM »
I'm curious about the Valoroso label. It appears to be made by Stanislaus, but for whatever reason, it's not available from my local foodservice outlet store, GFS, even though they carry the rest of the lineup. I've heard good things about Valoroso, like it's similar to Alta Cucina, but not as tangy, or something like that. Sounds like something I need to try.

I have tried Alta Cucina, i prefer Voloroso over everything because i don't cook my sauce at all, i barely crush them and then add mince garlic, pinch of salt and oregano.   
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Offline hammettjr

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Re: NY Style sauce discussion
« Reply #561 on: November 02, 2020, 05:16:42 PM »
Hey, that pie looks fantastic. Would you mind sharing that dough recipe please? Would appreciate it. Thanks!

Hey, it wasn't my pie unfortunately,  came from the pizzeria NY Pizza Suprema
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Offline pvura

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Re: NY Style sauce discussion
« Reply #562 on: November 02, 2020, 05:40:40 PM »
For the first time in all my pizza-making, I cooked my sauce. And results were very promising.

Consistency look - It looked like the NY pizzeria sauce I've purchased previously. It was very thin, but without the watery look of a freshly opened can. And the shine from the oil looked just right. Somehow different from my usual.

Consistency bake - worked really well, with a nice resulting melt

Flavor meld - super interesting, I can see this resulting in the "I cant taste any individual ingredients, but there's a lot going on" kind of sauce. Only problem was even though I used half the onion called for, it was too strong.

My Question: I like the oregano to stand out, so assuming the flavors blend together when simmering (still have to try it without the onion), what's the best way to adjust? 2 alternatives I'm considering:
Option 1 - Put the oregano in later in the process, directly into the tomato instead of the oil at the start.
Option 2 - Save half the oregano and add it just before I top the pizza

My sauce is described below. It was based on Kenji's recipe with a few adjustments.

1 Tbs EVOO and 1 Tbs butter melted in a pot. Added and cooked the following for about 3 minutes on medium low:
1 tsp oregano, 1/2 tsp dry basil, 1/16 tsp red pepper flakes, a few grated cloves of garlic, 1/4 tsp salt.

Added 28oz can of Cento San Marzano that was pulsed in blender (but accidently pulsed too much, so no chunks).
1/2 tsp sugar
half a yellow onion
Simmered for 50 minutes then removed the onion.

After removing I added 1 Tbs Romano, which I forgot to do with the simmer.

Oh i see, thanks for the response!

Do u have a recipe for that dough? That looks killer as well 👀. Thanks!

Offline hammettjr

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Re: NY Style sauce discussion
« Reply #563 on: November 02, 2020, 06:08:12 PM »
I'm not a crust fanatic (more focused on sauce and cheese melt) but here's my current formula:

Dough
100% High Gluten Flour
63% Water
3% Oil or Butter
1% Sugar
2% Salt
1% LDMP
0.25% IDY
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Offline RHawthorne

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Re: NY Style sauce discussion
« Reply #564 on: November 02, 2020, 06:50:12 PM »
I have tried Alta Cucina, i prefer Voloroso over everything because i don't cook my sauce at all, i barely crush them and then add mince garlic, pinch of salt and oregano.
That's close to what I do. I use one can tomato product (I've tried quite a few, and I don't know if I've found a favorite yet, but I like 6-in-1 tomatoes quite a bit, and Stanislaus Tomato Magic), and add 1 tsp sea salt, 1 tsp dried oregano, and 1 crushed garlic clove. I don't like my seasonings any more intense than that, and I don't cook my sauce, although I have experimented with that in the past. I tried one can of Atla Cucina tomatoes and I liked them, but they weren't up there with my favorites.  I wish I could get just one can of Valoroso, but GFS doesn't carry that label, like I said. I could order it from webstaurantstore.com, but they only sell it by the whole case, and I could try on amazon, but people jack up prices there so much it's ridiculous. I'll keep my eyes open for some way to get my hands on a can.
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Offline Pizza Shark

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Re: NY Style sauce discussion
« Reply #565 on: November 02, 2020, 08:01:37 PM »
It is a fact that every pizzeria that cranks out some volume is keeping their sauce prep time to an absolute minimum to reduce labor cost.  That means they find what they prefer that is available in #10 cans by the case and create their own mix.  Most of us here can't afford to buy cases of various brands within a brand or outside of that brand to blend together and make a house pizza sauce.  One popular Stanislaus recipe is to mix 1 can of Full Red with 2 cans of 7/11 and season appropriately.  I've used Full Red by itself thinned out with water and I've used 711 straight from the can.  I prefer the 7/11 all day long and have never tried to mix them because that would mean opening 3 #10 cans at once and dealing with all that sauce.  As far as Stanislaus Saporito is concerned, don't even go there as that is the thickest stuff on earth that is sold for maximum yield and is indeed "SUPER HEAVY".  It may as well be tomato paste that you just keep adding more and more water to until you get to the consistency that works for you and then you sell those pies at fairs and such on the midway where you are a vendor with a pizza trailer and there is no such thing as a repeat customer.  Saporito was made for those who want to produce low quality pies dirt cheap in my opinion. It doesn't make a good pizza sauce on its own thinned out but perhaps it could be added as a thickener in moderate amount to such whole tomato and higher water content products like Alta Cucina.  This begs the question do you go with Alta Cucina or similar and thicken it with heavier blends like Full Red or (God forbid) Saporito or do ya just go with what works all the time?  I hang my hat on 7/11 by itself all day for the home baker who has access to it.  If I were to guess 7/11 has got to be Stanislaus' all time best and top selling product... You see it used everywhere in the pizza industry to full service sit down Italian dining. 
« Last Edit: November 02, 2020, 08:16:23 PM by Pizza Shark »

Offline stevenfstein

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Re: NY Style sauce discussion
« Reply #566 on: November 02, 2020, 08:29:31 PM »
anyone try Stanislaus Pizzaiolo sauce?    From their web site. "Pizzaiolo® is an authentic, fully-seasoned chunky pizza sauce, inspired by the artistry of neighborhood pizzaioli (pizza-makers) throughout Italy. A traditional blend of chunky vine-fresh tomatoes, extra virgin olive oil, oregano, garlic, and pepper, Pizzaiolo® has a ready-to-use thickness and authentic character enjoyed in real Italian pizzerias."

Best... Steve

Offline RHawthorne

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Re: NY Style sauce discussion
« Reply #567 on: November 02, 2020, 11:02:02 PM »
anyone try Stanislaus Pizzaiolo sauce?    From their web site. "Pizzaiolo® is an authentic, fully-seasoned chunky pizza sauce, inspired by the artistry of neighborhood pizzaioli (pizza-makers) throughout Italy. A traditional blend of chunky vine-fresh tomatoes, extra virgin olive oil, oregano, garlic, and pepper, Pizzaiolo® has a ready-to-use thickness and authentic character enjoyed in real Italian pizzerias."

Best... Steve
I almost bought a can of that stuff and then opted for something else instead. I guess I'm just hesitant to try anything that's pre-seasoned, in case I don't like the seasoning blend. Especially with garlic and potentially strong herbs like oregano, if there's too much in the mix, it's pretty much impossible to smooth it out without doing something like adding water, which dilutes the whole flavor profile, or mixing it with a can of some other sauce, which gives way too much sauce for any home pizzaiolo to use up in a reasonable time frame. But I still might try it some time.
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Offline scott r

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Re: NY Style sauce discussion
« Reply #568 on: November 03, 2020, 08:22:00 AM »
I was really surprised to find that its quite tasty.  I am pretty much scratch everything so normally I wouldn't cut corners and buy pre seasoned, but this stuff was great!  At home and at my restaurant I still add my own seasoning, but if you don't have time or want to deal with it don't fear the pizzaiolo!   Al dente pasta sauce is amazing too.

Offline quietdesperation

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Re: NY Style sauce discussion
« Reply #569 on: November 03, 2020, 12:22:55 PM »
the thing that takes me the longest and I like the least is pushing scalfani crushed through a mesh strainer with a wooden spoon to remove skin and seeds. Anyone have a solution to avoid this or a short cut? Perhaps purchasing another brand of tomatoes might help...
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Offline pvura

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Re: NY Style sauce discussion
« Reply #570 on: November 03, 2020, 12:42:36 PM »
Idk if this helps anyone out but di fara uses a combo of canned and fresh tomatoes. The brand they use is vantia italian canned tomatoes.

Offline Fiorot

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Re: NY Style sauce discussion
« Reply #571 on: November 03, 2020, 02:29:31 PM »
the thing that takes me the longest and I like the least is pushing scalfani crushed through a mesh strainer with a wooden spoon to remove skin and seeds. Anyone have a solution to avoid this or a short cut? Perhaps purchasing another brand of tomatoes might help...
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Offline piesofsatan

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Re: NY Style sauce discussion
« Reply #572 on: November 03, 2020, 02:41:46 PM »
the thing that takes me the longest and I like the least is pushing scalfani crushed through a mesh strainer with a wooden spoon to remove skin and seeds. Anyone have a solution to avoid this or a short cut? Perhaps purchasing another brand of tomatoes might help...

Wouldn't a food mill with the fine plate do the trick?

Offline Pizza Shark

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Re: NY Style sauce discussion
« Reply #573 on: November 03, 2020, 06:25:46 PM »
Wouldn't a food mill with the fine plate do the trick?

As many home pizza makers have KA mixers, this attachment is absolutely fantastic.  This package sells both the meat grinder and the fruit and vegetable strainer set but if you already have the meat grinder you can just buy the fruit and vegetable set as an add-on that works with the meat grinder.  When I used to have huge harvests of tomatoes I'd take them all and cut them up and put them into a big cooking pot and bring them just to a boil so they were soft and just starting to fall apart.  Then I'd ladle them into the mill and all the pulp and juice comes out the bottom and all the skins and seeds get separated and pushed out the front.  It's like magic and so easy compared to the hand crank mills out there (one of which I had that was made in Italy but the acid from the tomatoes ended up eating it and rusting components away).   I'd run the discarded skins and seeds through a second time to make sure I got all the pulp and juice out of them and a good amount would come out on the 2nd pass.  Then put all the pulp and juice on the stove, and add your seasonings and then add tomato paste and keep adding it until you get the consistency you want and bring it to a boil for a few minutes.  Then pull it, add fresh basil, and sit the pot in a cold water bath in the kitchen sink filled with cold water.  Once cooled to the point you can handle it ladle it into Ziplock freezer bags, squeeze out the air, seal them and into the freezer they go.       

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Furthermore, having the meat grinder is cool so you can grind your own pork and make Italian Sausage spiced as little or as heavy and hot as you like.  Also, you can stay away from that lousy store bought ground beef and buy great cuts of chuck roast or round on sale that are way cheaper per lb. and grind it yourself to turn into 1/4lb burger patties that you can freeze and then use for everything.  The risk of contamination is also far less because you are grinding it yourself.  The taste and texture of homemade ground beef is also superior.  I personally only run mine through once as I like kind of a course grind instead of a double fine grind.  The course grind is more like a steak burger that hasn't been ground into nothingness.

Store bought ground beef can and does get bacteria and such in it from time to time that causes people to get sick as it grows and spreads in the inside which is why fast food chains all cook burgers to well done and all restaurants that offer the option of ordering rare / medium have a disclaimer on their menus that you could get sick.  Lots of people also don't know that the FDA removed the requirement that packaged ground beef had to state whether or not it contained "Pink Slime" technically called Finely Textured Beef.  It is now in most every form of ground beef you buy at the store.  Watch some videos on Youtube about how Finely Textured Beef is made and I guarantee you won't want to be eating it... Absolutely nasty, disgusting stuff that secretly gets added into almost all forms of common ground beef now.         
« Last Edit: November 03, 2020, 06:38:53 PM by Pizza Shark »

Offline HansB

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Re: NY Style sauce discussion
« Reply #574 on: November 03, 2020, 07:42:36 PM »
Anyone have a solution to avoid this or a short cut? Perhaps

Just don't strain them?
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Offline Fiorot

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Re: NY Style sauce discussion
« Reply #575 on: November 04, 2020, 08:18:39 PM »
Just don't strain them?
dont get the same flavor

Offline Andrew Bellucci

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Re: NY Style sauce discussion
« Reply #576 on: November 05, 2020, 10:13:08 PM »
Bellucci's Pizzeria
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Astoria, New York

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Offline NY_Mike

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Re: NY Style sauce discussion
« Reply #577 on: November 06, 2020, 10:19:10 AM »
the thing that takes me the longest and I like the least is pushing scalfani crushed through a mesh strainer with a wooden spoon to remove skin and seeds. Anyone have a solution to avoid this or a short cut? Perhaps purchasing another brand of tomatoes might help...

Yeah definitely a food mill as some others have pointed out. While you may not get the exact same texture as using a fine mesh strainer, I think it'll get you pretty close especially if you change the disk in your food mill to something extra fine.
Yes, you will also get a random seeds here and there that managed to wiggle its way thru but it's negligible.

I used to go thru the process of slicing the tomato's open and removing the seeds by hand, but just found it to be too much work, the food mill does the job 99% well enough that I have no complaints.

Online foreplease

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Re: NY Style sauce discussion
« Reply #578 on: December 16, 2020, 11:42:24 PM »

Brother Hermit, I have missed your posts and participation on the forum the last couple years. i hope you and your family are OK. We lost Nick last winter and Dough Doctor recently.
 
I am very interested to hear thoughts on this.  I don't use any oil in my sauce but I'd like to if it won't make it too greasy.  I always struggle with moisture on pies.

Right now I really have no idea what I am shooting for, admittedly, having never been to NY and had anything to compare it to.  Just what I've had at so called "NY style pizzarias" outside of NY.  Seems like a wide range between them all in the sauce, I guess this is what sets a lot of them apart if they're using the same ovens/cheese/flour.

Right now I have this renegade sauce that I like, changing up between tomatoes seems to bring a difference to the base.  I've been able to add in some red wine vinegar or white sugar to alter a Roma WP tomato to get a little closer to SM but it's still not the same.  Standard WP tomatoes seem to need the most work but around here they have a lot of the salt already in them. 

My seasonings have changed a lot but I seem to really like 1tsp of granular garlic and oregano, 1/2 tsp of black pepper and crushed red pepper in the sauce.  Using white sugar or red wine vinegar to adjust the sweetness or acidity of the sauce.  I'm finding the salt bounces between 1/2tsp and 1tsp depending on the sodium content of tomatoes.  After about 4 months of using almost exclusively SM tomatoes it seems like the roma WP tomatoes need some work.  No side by side comparisons just perception at this point.  I've been trying to take most tomato products between crushed, WP, diced, and get the flavor and consistency to a familiar ballpark.  It takes me a good 2 hours to make the sauce from the time it's strained until it's done just cooking down the juice and getting the salt/sweet/acid right.  Last time I did a taste test throughout the seasoning process and while it wasn't a rested sauce, I still got the general idea of the profile.  The fresh ground black pepper and granulated garlic both seemed to bring the most layered and noticable flavor profiles over the rest of ingredients.

I have tried about 8 different tomatoes, so this is from a very limited perspective!  I see a lot of members using various brands of tomatoes and I am sure they are great and more commercially used, my ingredients are mostly from a standard grocery shoppers perspective.  I don't get out much.

I think I have my local pizzaria beat out on sauce but I need to do a purchase and comparison with some testers to see  ;D
-Tony

Offline hammettjr

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Re: NY Style sauce discussion
« Reply #579 on: March 10, 2021, 05:03:10 PM »
That sounds great. I'm not ready to make the number of changes to my sauce to replicate it immediately, but I'm very tempted to try a bit of anchovy paste as I've been curious about it for a while. If you added a 1/4 tsp for 20" pie, maybe I'll do 1/8 tsp for 16".

But, what do you guys think about the anchovy paste going into a raw uncooked sauce?

Also, is there a big difference in quality/flavor across different brands of paste or can I just buy whatever the supermarket has in stock?

Finally coming back to this 2 years later. I now have anchovy paste. Questions:

- Fine to put in in a raw sauce? Edit: meaning, does the anchovy need extra cooking to develop flavor, or would just the pie bake be sufficient from a flavor perspective? (I'm not too concerned about safety, it seems safe to eat it from the tube.)

- How much for 1.25 cups of sauce? I was surprised the Cento paste I bought has only 550mg of sodium in 2 tsp. I was thinking 1/2 tsp, though that's probably double what JKB used.

Matt
« Last Edit: March 10, 2021, 07:07:25 PM by hammettjr »
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