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Author Topic: Sourdough Detroit Style Thick Pan Recipe Help  (Read 643 times)

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Offline pizza_drummer1105

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Sourdough Detroit Style Thick Pan Recipe Help
« on: December 18, 2020, 06:21:36 PM »
I'm having some trouble with my sourdough Detroit style pizza dough. I can't tell if I'm overproofing or underproofing it and it's driving me crazy. Below is my recipe
  • Flour 638g
  • Water 466g (73%)
  • Oil 13g (2%)
  • Salt 16g (2.5%)
  • Starter 128g (20%, 100% Hydration)
  • Sugar 13g (2%)
I mix the water and starter and sugar. Then I mix in the flour with a stand mixer for about 3 minutes until its combined. I let the dough rest for 20-30 minutes and then add the salt to the mixer for about 30 seconds to 1 minute until incorporated. Finally I add the oil, again until incorporated, for about a minute.

I let the dough rest for an hour and then perform 4 stretch and folds. I move it to a bulk container and I let it sit in the container for about 4 hours or until it almost doubles. My kitchen was slightly colder due to Winter, so about 64-68 degrees F. After it's doubles, I cut the dough into 22oz dough balls and place in dough proofers. I let it sit out again for another 3-4 hours in a 64F-68F kitchen. I then put the dough in the fridge for about 48-50 hours.

I took the dough out of the fridge and placed into my pans. I let the dough come up to room temp for about an hour and pressed it into the pan. Let the dough rest for about 15 minutes and then pressed it into the pan again. Here's where I tried something different:

I usually only let my dough rest in the pan for about a hour or two. But lately i've been reading to let the dough rise a lot longer than that. I attended (virtually) a class with John Arena and he lets his Sicilian style dough (using yeast) rest out for about 10-12 hours. So last night i tried that, letting the dough get its final rise in the pan overnight in the 64F-68F degree kitchen. When I woke up, the dough had been proofing for about 11 hours. I've heard recommendations of letting the dough rise until it's about a third of the way up the pan walls. My dough has never risen up that far, and usually only gets about a quarter of the way up, which is where it had risen to. So I put the dough in the oven and didn't get much of a rise past that. Barely any oven spring. I'm wondering now if I'm over-proofing or under-proofing my dough. I know the poke test is used to tell when dough is ready but I feel like after you dimple dough into the pan, the poke test doesn't really help. Anyone have any advice or tips?

Offline tntpizzasd

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Re: Sourdough Detroit Style Thick Pan Recipe Help
« Reply #1 on: December 21, 2020, 12:10:01 PM »
I use a very similar recipe and very similar process, although usually I spike mine with a tad of commercial yeast and only 12% sourdough (mine is 73% total hydration including including the 100% hyd. sourdough mixture; I've been using a pretty strong flavored SF starter but recently started a a mellower high rising starter so hopefully soon I can forgo the commercial yeast and up the starter in the mixture).

Ive done some rounds of completely sourdough with the SF starter and got a good rise, although "evenness" of the rise has been an issue. Currently after dough is made (similar process to you with shorter rest period mid mix). Usually I make the dough and after 4-6 hr bulk rise room temp (same as you, 65 - 70) stretch in crisco'd Lloyd pans. At that point I let rise in pans, again room temp, for about 14-16 hours (a lot shorter time when weather is warmer). Then put on top of my old Wedgwood stove for anywhere between 2 - 4 hours (oven off, pilot light always lit and generates a bit of heat). Usually that gives a good umph to the rise. Then parbake and good to go. I make between 20 and 40 at a time, one thing I pay attention to is rotating the doughs when on the oven for an even rise.

Sounds like dough might be under proofed. For a long time I was cold fermenting at least overnight, and TBH this didn't really inhibit the rise I ended up having, but did make final rise time longer. Maybe omit the cold ferment (lots of sourdough people are against the cold ferment anyway), given that its pretty could out anyway? Besides that I'd say just make sure the starter is very active and maybe try a longer rise in a warmer place.

Offline scott r

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Re: Sourdough Detroit Style Thick Pan Recipe Help
« Reply #2 on: December 21, 2020, 03:30:44 PM »
It all depends on how you are feeding your starter and when you use it, but typically with 20 percent very active starter, if you are letting it double in volume and then rise another 4 hours at room temp and then 2 days in fridge, and then another 2-12 hours in the pan , I think you are over proofing.  One surefire way to know is if the resulting crust was sour.   I make sourdough Sicilians and I shoot for just a barely perceptible tang.  I do a lot less rise than it sounds like you are doing.   

Try getting your dough into the pans a lot sooner... like maybe after about 10% rise or even less is fine if the dough is going to spend some time in the fridge.  Let the dough double or maybe a bit more in the pan before baking.   I think you might prefer the texture and the flavor, but let us know if im wrong.  Good luck!

Offline pizza_drummer1105

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Re: Sourdough Detroit Style Thick Pan Recipe Help
« Reply #3 on: December 21, 2020, 11:54:29 PM »
Thanks for the tips!  I'm gonna try panning them and skipping the fridge altogether tonight.  I spiked the dough with about 3 grams of ADY tonight.  Mixed the dough at 6pm and have let it almost double.  I'm going to do some stretch and folds and pan them immediately and let it rise overnight in the room temp kitchen and bake tomorrow in the AM.  We'll see how it works!

As far as flavor, I really like the tang I'm getting.  It seems like I'm probably overproofing as i get a good, hearty tang, but its not unpleasant.  I feed my starer a 1:2:2 (starter:flour:water) ratio.  In a previous recipe, I was using about 40% starter as well.  I was just getting tired of sometimes getting a nice oven spring and others not so much.  My dough is also a little denser than most pan pizzas.  So I'm trying to find a good balance between the tangy sourdough goodness, and the dense doughs. 

Either way, delicious, delicious experimentation.  Thanks again for the tips, I'll report back.
« Last Edit: December 22, 2020, 12:43:53 AM by pizza_drummer1105 »

Offline pizza_drummer1105

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Re: Sourdough Detroit Style Thick Pan Recipe Help
« Reply #4 on: December 22, 2020, 05:10:47 PM »
Pressed them out into the pans 3 times in 20 minutes intervals over an hour.  Let them rise in the colder room temp kitchen for 10-11 hours.  Best rise in the pans I've ever gotten.  Didn't really get much of an oven spring but it also didn't really need an oven spring haha.  Thanks for all the help!


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Offline scott r

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Re: Sourdough Detroit Style Thick Pan Recipe Help
« Reply #5 on: December 22, 2020, 05:13:07 PM »
Great!  so glad that worked out letting it do more rise in the pans.   I learned it from HANS :)
« Last Edit: December 23, 2020, 12:28:16 AM by scott r »

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