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Author Topic: Dough management and RTF  (Read 757 times)

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Offline rondo

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Dough management and RTF
« on: October 26, 2022, 05:43:21 PM »
After reading the post of TXCraig1 and others, I am experimenting with RTF dough after years of using CTF doughs.

My typical CFT dough has been:
flour 100% (35% Grain Craft and 65% Ardent Mills)
water 65%
voo 2%
salt 1.75 %
sugar 2%
IDY .145 for 72 hours at 40į

I follow Tom Lehmans dough management procedure, except I mix for 1 1/2 minutes rest the mixing for 15 minutes or so and then mix for 3 1/2 minutes while adding the oil.

finished dough temperature typically 78į
typical dough ball weight 12.25 ounces
Firmament stone at 500į

I used this recipe on my first RTF and dough balls were very sticky and flat as pancakes and produced a very tough finished dough. Basically a failure.

Second experiment same dough recipe, but reduced water to 60% and IDY to .010% for 27 hours at 76į (21 hours bulk + 6 hours dough balls) I built a cabinet specifically for RTF pizza and bread.

Dough balls not as sticky but not as smooth as I get with CFT dough. picture 1
Dough balls collapsed to near pancake. picture 2
But, dough did stretch out to 16" x 13", picture 3, browned nicely and tasted very good, crispy and lots of flavor. picture 4
On the right track BUT:

Since the dough balls were very firm originally, is the dough ball collapse typical? I have DoughMates boxes and usually get 4 - 5 CFT  balls in 1 box.
I could use tupperware containers, but I am thinking there is something wrong with my dough management.

What is the window of usability with RTF? I have done parties using  5 to 15 CTF dough balls over several hours and that might be a challenge with RTF.
The first pizza I ever made was Chef Boyardee pizza in a box. That was many, many slices ago and I remember thinking it was fabulous.

Offline Alleypizza

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Re: Dough management and RTF
« Reply #1 on: November 01, 2022, 11:26:28 PM »
I sold pizza out of Alley all summer. I didnít have room for the dough in the fridge. So I did a RTF. But I used my basement in my AC controlled house. Basement was about 67-68 degrees day or night.

1 KG high protein flour (mine is 16.8%)
73% water (dropped to 70, when it got hot out)
0.6g active yeast
3% salt.

Poolish was 50% flour with equal water for 24 hours
Then I mixed the dough and bulk fermented for 21-ish hours then balled the dough ready for pizza making.

I would leave the dough in the basement if it was really hot out until 30-60 min before I needed it. If it was colder (80-ish) I would bring it outside sooner.

Amazing results (though I had thin spot issues that Iím still working through with my CF in the food truck, they didnít get better with less fermentation which I thought was the issue) in the 3 weekends in my new truck I havenít been able to get the same quality with the CF. But I canít do RTF on the truck. Temperature swings are too big.

The dough would be balled around 1-2pm and we would make pizza until 7:30 or 8pm.


Offline jma6610

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Re: Dough management and RTF
« Reply #2 on: November 09, 2022, 07:15:20 PM »

What is the window of usability with RTF? I have done parties using  5 to 15 CTF dough balls over several hours and that might be a challenge with RTF.

Just because you've used RT to do most of the fermentation does not mean that you can't put the dough into the fridge to hold prior to baking does it? It sounds as if you have room in the fridge for this. Just do 80-90% of the fermentation at RT, put in fridge to essentially halt the rise and let the rest of the fermentation that you desire occur in the fridge as the dough is cooling down and after you remove from the fridge prior to warming before baking. If you're baking over several hours, just remove a few balls at a time. If use a small amount of yeast and longer fermentation times, you'll get a longer window where the dough can be baked without over proofing.

Offline RickyPizzaiola

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Re: Dough management and RTF
« Reply #3 on: November 28, 2022, 01:40:14 PM »
RTF for me has been tricky with a larger number of pies there seems to be a sweet spot where the dough is perfect then starts to over proof for the last few pies. My typical RTF dough uses zero sugar and I also mix my salt and yeast into the water together (i know this is not often recommended because of the impact salt has on yeast activity but it seems to work well for slowing down the RTF). about 8-10 hours Bulk then into balls about an hour and a half before using. I like 62% hydration and 800 degrees in the Rocbox.

Offline DDT

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Re: Dough management and RTF
« Reply #4 on: December 01, 2022, 08:57:18 PM »
Hopefully I donít get booted off the forum. Posting this as a joke and not trying to advertise this guys you tube channel which is pretty good if you like that kind of stuff but just made me think of all the analyzing I put into my pizza let alone most meals. Pizza cooking is at the end. Wonder if he timed his rt ferment or dough temp.



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Offline Yael

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Re: Dough management and RTF
« Reply #5 on: December 03, 2022, 09:26:50 PM »
[...]
Since the dough balls were very firm originally, is the dough ball collapse typical? I have DoughMates boxes and usually get 4 - 5 CFT  balls in 1 box.
I could use tupperware containers, but I am thinking there is something wrong with my dough management.

What is the window of usability with RTF? I have done parties using  5 to 15 CTF dough balls over several hours and that might be a challenge with RTF.

The dough on pic 2 is just overfermented, so you have a few solutions:
- add less yeast
- lower the RT
- adding salt would give your dough more strength (1.75% is on the low side for pizza making, although I think 3% is too salty I like 2.5%), so it could take more fermentation without changing the factors above.

I read posts of Craig making 48H RTF, and I tried 60+H RTF as well (just FYI https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=67433.0).

The window of usability with a RTF dough should be wider than a CF one (AOTBE), simply because there is much less yeast in a RTF. If you think you have a wider window using CF, it might be because you use your dough too soon (that would be my guess) when it's not fermented enough or too cold.
ďLearn the rules like a pro so you can break them like an artistĒ - Pablo Picasso

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