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Offline waltertore

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Re: baking on steel question
« Reply #40 on: February 28, 2023, 05:55:39 PM »
Looks great. What I find most interesting is the lack of flop in your pizza. I've never experienced that before, ever. Until I got this steel. I've never even had pizza like that before. My first round of pies had no flop like that. The wife did not like the crunch, I loved it...

Thanks.  I grew up with a crisp but chewy pie. I think I was concived on a crispy pizza, my grandfathers homemade wine, and a Sinatra album playing.  Pizza was deep in my family and where I grew up.  The floppy doughy pies never excited me. Most of the NJ shore boardwalk pies were doughy, floppy, and too much cheese, not enough sauce.  Never liked them.
« Last Edit: February 28, 2023, 05:59:45 PM by waltertore »
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Offline Pizza_Not_War

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Re: baking on steel question
« Reply #41 on: February 28, 2023, 05:57:12 PM »
I grew up with a crisp but chewy pie.  The floppy doughy pies never excited me.
NJ vs. NY ??  Floppy was about 99% of pizza I grew up with, only reheats had crisp bottoms.

Offline waltertore

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Re: baking on steel question
« Reply #42 on: February 28, 2023, 06:01:44 PM »
NJ vs. NY ??  Floppy was about 99% of pizza I grew up with, only reheats had crisp bottoms.

I don't know.  The pies in my neighborhood were crispy and chewy but when I started wandering into NYC, cutting high school,for music, I saw all floppy pizza slices, but I didn't know one shop from the next like I did at home.
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Offline waltertore

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Re: baking on steel question
« Reply #43 on: March 11, 2023, 07:34:37 PM »
Newest experiment to recreate my pizzeria pizza in a home oven.  Raised hydration and yeast levels. This helped give the look and feel of my pizzeria dough. Still have 2 problems - our home fridge doesn't cool like our walk in did, steel only gets to 535 degrees after a couple hours of preheat.  Going to lower the steel to direct on oven floor as I get readings around 600 degrees but only 530-540 on the oven walls.  I want more of pop with the dough a hotter temp gives and hopefully can figure this out in the home oven. I am going to put the steel direct on the oven floor as I get 600 degree reading from it and the electric element is under it.
 Then finish on the top of the oven with the broiler.  All hypothetical but will try it this week. Might be needing some people to help eat the experiments if I don't figure it out soon :)
« Last Edit: March 11, 2023, 07:38:32 PM by waltertore »
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Offline TheRealJonnyD

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Re: baking on steel question
« Reply #44 on: March 11, 2023, 07:54:22 PM »
That's a great looking pie!

In my experience, intense top heat at the beginning will get the pop you want. I prefer using my steel at 500f, I like to turn the broiler on high immediately before launch (525 on my oven) and then switch back to bake 2 minutes after the pizza hits the oven. At 6m30s, I have a well browned pie with nice bubbles even at 58% hydration and fairly low yeast. I am really interested in hearing how your experiment turns out!
Jon

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Offline waltertore

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Re: baking on steel question
« Reply #45 on: March 11, 2023, 09:02:01 PM »
That's a great looking pie!

In my experience, intense top heat at the beginning will get the pop you want. I prefer using my steel at 500f, I like to turn the broiler on high immediately before launch (525 on my oven) and then switch back to bake 2 minutes after the pizza hits the oven. At 6m30s, I have a well browned pie with nice bubbles even at 58% hydration and fairly low yeast. I am really interested in hearing how your experiment turns out!

Thanks for the compliment.  I give them a 6 out of 10 where I gave my pizzeria pie a 10 out of 10.  Also, thanks for the info on how you work your home oven. Is it gas or electric?  Can you post some pictures for me to see?  They are rising like I like with just the steel but feel dried out even with raising the hydration levels on each of the 2 pies.  Our ovens are electric and am thinking spraying the walls of the oven when I put the pies in to see if a little humidity can simulate the humidity that was coming off from the natural gas in our Blodgett 1000's. 
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Offline Whisky

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Re: baking on steel question
« Reply #46 on: March 11, 2023, 10:52:57 PM »
After my first cook on this steel at the second from top position I moved it down to second from bottom position. I then put a stone on the rack right above it. Once I get the bottom color I want I switch the oven to broil and move up to the stone for a couple minutes to finish. It's been an improvement, but now I may try the method mentioned above where you start with the broiler. That sounds interesting.

Offline waltertore

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Re: baking on steel question
« Reply #47 on: March 16, 2023, 05:35:21 PM »
Getting back into my breadmaking.  Sure missed it but was too busy with the pizzeria to do it.  Last of my hand kneaded doughs just came out of the oven.  Got a kitchenaid 6-quart pro mixer coming in the mail tomorrow.  Judy is running low on the bagels we get shipped from NYC and I am going to make a batch of mine.  Hand kneading bagel dough is tough on my hands - getting arthritis in them and don't want to end my guitar playing career till I die 🙂  It is so much fun to get back into dough as a hobby instead of a living.
The round is a sourdough from my made in Reno starter and the loaves are high hydration cold fermented.  I am giving them to neighbors or I will end up 400 pounds 🙂
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Offline jkb

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Re: baking on steel question
« Reply #48 on: March 16, 2023, 05:47:09 PM »
Getting back into my breadmaking.  Sure missed it but was too busy with the pizzeria to do it.  Last of my hand kneaded doughs just came out of the oven.  Got a kitchenaid 6-quart pro mixer coming in the mail tomorrow.  Judy is running low on the bagels we get shipped from NYC and I am going to make a batch of mine.  Hand kneading bagel dough is tough on my hands - getting arthritis in them and don't want to end my guitar playing career till I die 🙂  It is so much fun to get back into dough as a hobby instead of a living.
The round is a sourdough from my made in Reno starter and the loaves are high hydration cold fermented.  I am giving them to neighbors or I will end up 400 pounds 🙂

I've killed 4 Kitchenaids mixing pizza and bagel dough.  I've been using a food processor for the last 25 years.
John

Offline TXCraig1

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Re: baking on steel question
« Reply #49 on: March 16, 2023, 08:49:56 PM »
Walter, what oven do you have in your house?
"We make great pizza, with sourdough when we can, baker's yeast when we must, but always great pizza."  
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Offline Mark Polo

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Re: baking on steel question
« Reply #50 on: March 16, 2023, 09:34:03 PM »
Walter, it is fun to see you baking at home...and asking for input from forum members.  I feel like I am giving Muhammad Ali tips on how to jab. :-D  In any event, I began cooking on steel after Scott 123 came up with the idea.  I used All Trumps, 63% hydration 2 to 3 day cold ferment and preheated my steel to 535 near the top my electric oven.  Broil assist for the first minute or so.  Got some oven spring & usually got a nice brown on the bottom crust and pie was done in 4 to 5 minutes.  When I got my steel to 550 things cooked too fast.  3 minutes and too dark on bottom.  Grande mozzarella. I made this pie every week for my family for several years.

Offline waltertore

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Re: baking on steel question
« Reply #51 on: March 16, 2023, 09:36:02 PM »
I've killed 4 Kitchenaids mixing pizza and bagel dough.  I've been using a food processor for the last 25 years.

I am returning the one I ordered.  A friend has one that her husband rebuilt and they are giving it to me.  He replaced the plastic gears with metal. 
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Offline waltertore

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Re: baking on steel question
« Reply #52 on: March 16, 2023, 09:42:08 PM »
Walter, it is fun to see you baking at home...and asking for input from forum members.  I feel like I am giving Muhammad Ali tips on how to jab. :-D  In any event, I began cooking on steel after Scott 123 came up with the idea.  I used All Trumps, 63% hydration 2 to 3 day cold ferment and preheated my steel to 535 near the top my electric oven.  Broil assist for the first minute or so.  Got some oven spring & usually got a nice brown on the bottom crust and pie was done in 4 to 5 minutes.  When I got my steel to 550 things cooked too fast.  3 minutes and too dark on bottom.  Grande mozzarella. I made this pie every week for my family for several years.

Thanks for your that info!  I am nothing but a has been :-D    I hit the home run today.  After about 6 experimental pies we now have Smiling with Hope Pizza made in our home oven :)  I set the oven to 550, and when the bottom browned nice, finished it up on the broiler.  Judy agreed it is identical to our pizzeria pizza.  I had to up the hydration, and fortunately get all the same ingredients I used at the pizzeria.  I should have stretched it a tad more.  We sold a 16" pie at the shop and the steel is 16" deep.  Gonna push it to the edges on the next one.  this one was about 1" shy of the edge.  The NJ pizza gods and Frank Mastro were with me today :)
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Offline waltertore

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Re: baking on steel question
« Reply #53 on: March 16, 2023, 09:44:51 PM »
Walter, what oven do you have in your house?

I thought it was a GE but it is a whirlpool. I only used a few times in the 7 years we have been here. Pizzeria kept me too busy to cook anything at home. The enamel interior started chipping early on.  The photo reminded me we had it replaced as our house was new and appliances came with it an was under warranty. Forgot all about that. Now I am digging on it and don't miss the blodgetts because to own them means I got to have a pizzeria :)
« Last Edit: March 16, 2023, 09:47:52 PM by waltertore »
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Offline TXCraig1

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Re: baking on steel question
« Reply #54 on: March 17, 2023, 09:23:59 AM »
Walter - it looks like your oven can be adjusted to bake up to +30F. That's what I do when I bake on steel. It should get you to at least 565F.

I think I found your manual, but if not, I bet yours has similar instructions as this:
"We make great pizza, with sourdough when we can, baker's yeast when we must, but always great pizza."  
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Offline TheRealJonnyD

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Re: baking on steel question
« Reply #55 on: March 17, 2023, 10:06:39 AM »
When I got my steel to 550 things cooked too fast.  3 minutes and too dark on bottom.

This is my experience as well. Even with no sugar in the dough and no added diastatic malt (aside from what's in all trumps already), I can scorch a pie in 2 minutes at 550. This is why I bake at 500f with steel. With the broiler helping, I can get ~5 min pies this way without overcooking the bottom.
Jon

Offline scott r

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Re: baking on steel question
« Reply #56 on: March 17, 2023, 10:22:40 AM »
Walter - it looks like your oven can be adjusted to bake up to +30F. That's what I do when I bake on steel. It should get you to at least 565F.

I think I found your manual, but if not, I bet yours has similar instructions as this:

This info should be on some sort of sticky..   In all the ovens I had over the years of renting in Boston I have had every oven calibrated to get the extra heat and it really makes a big difference in my pizzas.  Some can get you 35 more, and I think I even had one that gave 45 more.

Im sure there are some really old school ones you cant calibrate, but I think any modern oven should be able to do it.   Even non digital ovens have a way to do it.  It doesnt sound like much but can really be game changing, and I forget that its not common knowledge.
« Last Edit: March 17, 2023, 10:46:30 AM by scott r »

Offline Howitzer21

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Re: baking on steel question
« Reply #57 on: March 17, 2023, 10:27:27 AM »
Walter - it looks like your oven can be adjusted to bake up to +30F. That's what I do when I bake on steel. It should get you to at least 565F.

I think I found your manual, but if not, I bet yours has similar instructions as this:

Didn't know this was a thing, just looked up the manual for my electric oven which maxes at 500F and it has the same adjustment function. Thanks for posting Craig
-Zack

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: baking on steel question
« Reply #58 on: March 17, 2023, 11:43:20 AM »
This info should be on some sort of sticky.   In all the ovens I had over the years of renting in Boston I have had every oven calibrated to get the extra heat and it really makes a big difference in my pizzas.  Some can get you 35 more, and I think I even had one that gave 45 more.

I'm sure there are some really old school ones you can't calibrate, but I think any modern oven should be able to do it.   Even non digital ovens have a way to do it.  It doesn't sound like much but can really be game changing, and I forget that it's not common knowledge.
Scott,

A while back, on Feb. 6 of this year, I edited a post at Reply 45 at https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=2223.msg20965#msg20965 to refer to this thread. As it so happens, the thread in which Reply 45 appears is a sticky under the New York style.

Peter

Offline Whisky

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Re: baking on steel question
« Reply #59 on: March 17, 2023, 01:09:43 PM »
That's the same instructions for my Kitchenaid oven also. All newer Kitchenaid and Whirlpool should adjust the same way.

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