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Author Topic: More flavour in dough  (Read 458558 times)

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Offline norma427

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Re: More flavour in dough
« Reply #1100 on: January 16, 2015, 12:43:22 PM »
Norma,

Go see Tony.

He's one of the most helpful and nicest guys I have met. Not many pizza operators I have met here in SF are willing to share some of their knowledge but Mr. Gemignani is an exception.

Definitely worth the trip for you.  :)

Mike,

Tony is going to be one of the judges for the pizza competitions.  I will try to talk to Tony if he isn't too busy doing other things.  I know Tony is a very nice man.  I talked to Scott Wiener and he is going to be one of the judges too.  I am anxious to meet Scott.  He said he will make time to talk to me.  I also will be looking to see if I can score a couple of lbs. of the new Caputo NY style flour to do a couple of experiments.

It will be an early up day for me since I will go to Reading, Pa. to take the bus to NYC.  I probably will be really tired on Tuesday.  I am making my dough batches this Sunday for Tuesday.  Hopefully I won't get lost on the subway system in NYC since I am going alone.

Norma

Offline norma427

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Re: More flavour in dough
« Reply #1101 on: January 18, 2015, 05:34:32 PM »
What the heck, it was really balmy at market today.  The heaters were on full blast.  The flour and water were still colder because they were closer to the floor.  That makes for another challenge in making the dough that is going to be fermented for 2 days.  I also mixed in frozen dough balls today in all the batches of dough.  Dave stopped by and gave me the pizza box he made for Scott.  I thought the pizza box was really cool.  8)  The pizza box also has writing on the sides of the pizza box related to the theme of the pizza box.  When I was at market on Friday to clean, do other things and take a block of cheese to market Dave saw my vehicle and stopped in to say hi.  After we talked awhile, I told Dave I want to take a pizza box and fold it so the inside was the outside and then draw something on it for Scott.  I asked Dave if he had any ideas of what to draw.  Dave really came up with some good ideas and then said he would do it for me.  I am not showing the whole pizza box design from Dave because I want it to be a surprise for Scott tomorrow.

Norma

Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: More flavour in dough
« Reply #1102 on: January 18, 2015, 10:13:38 PM »


   I hope you have a safe an fun trip tomorrow Norma and you have your camera all charged up and ready to go!  ;D
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Offline Jackitup

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Re: More flavour in dough
« Reply #1103 on: January 18, 2015, 10:45:40 PM »
The style of the hand on the artwork on the pizza box reminds me a bit of Robert Crumb style, really like it! For those of us that remember him and Zap comics  :-D

jon
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Offline norma427

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Re: More flavour in dough
« Reply #1104 on: January 19, 2015, 02:07:49 AM »

   I hope you have a safe an fun trip tomorrow Norma and you have your camera all charged up and ready to go!  ;D

Bob,

Thanks, and I have my camera ready to roll.   :P  Going to be a long day, but I like an adventure.

Norma

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Offline norma427

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Re: More flavour in dough
« Reply #1105 on: January 19, 2015, 02:14:20 AM »
The style of the hand on the artwork on the pizza box reminds me a bit of Robert Crumb style, really like it! For those of us that remember him and Zap comics  :-D

jon

Jon,

I am old, but don't recall Robert Crumb and his Zap comics.  Dave sometimes does his artwork in the style of Gary Larson of the Far Side.  This wasn't one of them though.  Can you imagine those pizzas going into a warp drive, or zap drive through a black hole into the galaxy.  Maybe after looking at Dave's artwork there is somewhere in the galaxy that just has pizzas.   :-D  ;D

Norma

Offline JohnA

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Re: More flavour in dough
« Reply #1106 on: January 20, 2015, 03:44:15 AM »
Robert Crumb's two best known drawings/characters, are most likely one of the many variations of "Mr Natural" and also some of the different variations of "Keep on Trucking".

https://images.search.yahoo.com/yhs/search;_ylt=A0LEV7nkDb5USkYAH.cPxQt.;_ylu=X3oDMTB0ZjNuMHJ1BHNlYwNzYwRjb2xvA2JmMQR2dGlkA1lIUzAwM18x?_adv_prop=image&fr=yhs-att-att_001&va=r+crumb+mr+natural&hspart=att&hsimp=yhs-att_001
 

Offline norma427

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Re: More flavour in dough
« Reply #1107 on: January 20, 2015, 06:51:54 AM »
Robert Crumb's two best known drawings/characters, are most likely one of the many variations of "Mr Natural" and also some of the different variations of "Keep on Trucking".

https://images.search.yahoo.com/yhs/search;_ylt=A0LEV7nkDb5USkYAH.cPxQt.;_ylu=X3oDMTB0ZjNuMHJ1BHNlYwNzYwRjb2xvA2JmMQR2dGlkA1lIUzAwM18x?_adv_prop=image&fr=yhs-att-att_001&va=r+crumb+mr+natural&hspart=att&hsimp=yhs-att_001

JohnA,

Thanks for posting about Robert Crumbs two best known drawing/characters.  I recall seeing them now.  They are cool!  8)

Norma

Offline norma427

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Re: More flavour in dough
« Reply #1108 on: January 20, 2015, 06:53:15 AM »
If anyone is interested since I posted about going to the Global Pizza Summit on this thread, the link to the new thread I started about the Global Pizza Summit starts at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,36229.msg360618.html#msg360618 

Norma

Offline norma427

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Re: More flavour in dough
« Reply #1109 on: January 22, 2015, 11:50:05 AM »
The pizzas made with the dough that was made last Sunday turned out well.  I took a couple of photos, but they are not good, and I was too busy to take more photos.

What I wanted to post about (if anyone is interested) is what Scott W. said to John Arena at the Global Pizza Summit in NYC.  If any member doesn't know who John Arena is, this is one video and link from PMQ.  http://www.pmq.com/March-2014/John-Arena-UNLV-The-Culture-of-Pizza/, and one more link http://vegas.eater.com/2014/3/18/6260513/john-arena-and-sam-facchini-on-34-years-of-metro-pizza

Scott W. said he wanted to introduce me to John Arena at the Pizza Summit because Scott had told John about me and my pizzas.  Scott did introduce me to John Arena at the very busy Pizza Summit, but there wasn't a lot of time to talk to John because John and Scott soon had to be one of the judges at the Pizza Competitions. What I kind of thought was interesting was Scott pulled up the photos of my pie at Reply 1074 http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,30641.msg359619.html#msg359619  from my facebook page on his cell phone.  Scott said to John do you see the see how Norma's pizza has those nice blisters you like so much in the rim crust at Reply 1075 http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,30641.msg359620.html#msg359620 (third photo down).  John agreed he liked those kind of blisters in the rim crust. 

Now this leads me to ask a question to any members that might know how to consistently get those blisters.  I know my pizza rim crusts don't always have those blisters.  I did notice though that the pizzas on Tuesday did have those blisters on the rim crust.  I would think that was because the dough balls were fermented for at least two days, but sure don't know if that is true or not.  Can anyone help me in what to do to get those kind of blisters in a one day cold ferment?

I really don't know if judges of Pizza Competitions look for those blisters, or not in telling how good a pizza would be, but I thought the mention of blisters from Scott W. and John A. was interesting.  I know I also like those blisters.

Norma

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Offline mkevenson

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Re: More flavour in dough
« Reply #1110 on: January 22, 2015, 12:15:23 PM »
Norma, thanks for that post. I guess my question to you would be, " what if anything do you do differently, when you get the blisters you like?" I am sure you keep notes, perhaps something will pop out. The pies do look very inviting. Thank you for sharing with us.

Mark
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Offline norma427

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Re: More flavour in dough
« Reply #1111 on: January 22, 2015, 12:25:28 PM »
I guess my question to you would be, " what if anything do you do differently, when you get the blisters you like?" I am sure you keep notes, perhaps something will pop out. The pies do look very inviting. Thank you for sharing with us.

Mark

Mark,

The links I posted for that pizza were from the boardwalk style dough pizza I used Tony's OO flour.  I do notice sometimes that I get more blisters than other times, with my regular boardwalk style dough made with GM Full Strength even in a one day cold ferment, but I can't get the same results all the time.  I don't know if the dough balls have to be fermented just right to get those blisters or not though, or if the oven has to be working just right too.

Norma

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Re: More flavour in dough
« Reply #1112 on: January 22, 2015, 02:32:30 PM »
Norma,

The matter of blistering is one that has befuddled and perplexed many of us for some time, as you will see from the thread at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,7740.msg36150.html#msg36150. I reread that thread again today and I can't say that I am any more enlightened now than when the thread was created and evolved, although I did enjoy reading the thread again. You also might want to read/reread that thread to see if anything jumps out at you based on the Boardwalk post you cited earlier today on the blistering issue. I fixed up several of the inoperative links in that thread using the Wayback Machine but unfortunately not all of the inoperative links were salvageable. 

Peter

Offline norma427

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Re: More flavour in dough
« Reply #1113 on: January 22, 2015, 07:32:22 PM »
Norma,

The matter of blistering is one that has befuddled and perplexed many of us for some time, as you will see from the thread at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,7740.msg36150.html#msg36150. I reread that thread again today and I can't say that I am any more enlightened now than when the thread was created and evolved, although I did enjoy reading the thread again. You also might want to read/reread that thread to see if anything jumps out at you based on the Boardwalk post you cited earlier today on the blistering issue. I fixed up several of the inoperative links in that thread using the Wayback Machine but unfortunately not all of the inoperative links were salvageable. 

Peter

Peter,

Thank you for referencing me to that thread about blistering.  Thanks for fixing the links you could fix.  The one link at waybackmachine http://web.archive.org/web/20120209002605/http://home.comcast.net/~keck-foundation1/pizza-crust-color.html seems to sum up different things in that it says it takes about 8 hrs. for enzymes to extract a decent amount of sugar from the starches. 

I noticed I seem to get more blistering when the dough skin has bubbles in all of the dough skin.  Whether that really makes any blisters I don't know.  I have been heating my dough balls in the warmer cabinet and think I notice the warmer dough balls have a little more blistering, but can't be sure of that either.  I don't think my dough balls are over fermented that get the blisters on the final pizza. 

What would you suggest to see if I can get more blistering in my pizza crusts? It can't hurt to try a few experiments.  I am trying to make sense out of November's post at Reply 18  http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,7740.msg36253.html#msg36253 I don't think I understand what November means by capillary action within the dough if using oil as November posted at Reply 20 http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,7740.msg36262.html#msg36262  I can tell when my dough balls have fermented some while in plastic bags in the prep fridge, or in the deli case.  I see November posted at Reply 22 http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,7740.msg36267.html#msg36267 that he thinks blistering is a pre-forming phenomenon. 

I left the dough ball sit out for awhile to warm-up when using Tony's 00 flour, so how that relates to my my normal dough balls I have no idea.  When I looked at the link you gave at http://web.archive.org/web/20071115143610/http://www.sourdough.com.au/forum/viewtopic.php?p=137  it seems like bread and pizza crusts are different in how they get blistering.

I see you did get small blistering at Reply 59 http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,7740.msg65604.html#msg65604 but I didn't do any of things you did to get blistering.  Tom says dry dough causes blistering but my dough skins aren't dry, or dough skins that are opened into pans, that are refrigerated for any length of time, warmed and baked, unless the warming of my dough balls in the warmer cabinet applies.  Tom also says that they never set to study about those blisters in depth, but says they had a feeling that in some way they were associated with oxidation of the dough skin.  I see ThunderStik (Bill) did get blistering as shown in his photo at Reply 81 http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,7740.msg84534.html#msg84534  I forgot about Bill's post and yours right after Bill's.

Dang, I did an advanced search to where I might have posted something about blistering before and I am still lost.

These are some of the dough balls in the prep fridge on Tuesday morning after I removed some to warm-up, and only the rim of a pizza I made on Tuesday.  I have a couple of photos from my cell on Tuesday.  The colors of the cheese and sauce are washed out, but there is a good photo of the bottom crust.  I don't think those photos will help much though.

Norma

Offline TXCraig1

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Re: More flavour in dough
« Reply #1114 on: January 22, 2015, 07:39:53 PM »
When making bread, I pretty much always get blisters when I have adequate steam in the air and almost never do if I don't. These were baked under a cover last weekend. I started at 550F and dropped it down to 450F.
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Offline norma427

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Re: More flavour in dough
« Reply #1115 on: January 22, 2015, 07:51:49 PM »
When making bread, I pretty much always get blisters when I have adequate steam in the air and almost never do if I don't. These were baked under a cover last weekend. I started at 550F and dropped it down to 450F.

Craig,

Those blisters on your breads look great!  ;D Now tell me how to get those blisters on rim crusts all the time in my oven at market.

Norma

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Re: More flavour in dough
« Reply #1116 on: January 22, 2015, 07:59:03 PM »
I see you did get small blistering at Reply 59 http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,7740.msg65604.html#msg65604 but I didn't do any of things you did to get blistering.
Norma,

To clarify a point, I did not make the pizza as shown at Reply 59 referenced above. That pizza was by a member of the PMQ Think Tank. When I clicked on the link to the photo of the pizza by the PMQTT member, it did not appear so I found another way to add the photo to the post. My edit comment was perhaps a bit unclear so I amended it so it is clear that the photo is connected with the last link in the post.

Peter

Offline norma427

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Re: More flavour in dough
« Reply #1117 on: January 22, 2015, 08:44:59 PM »
Norma,

To clarify a point, I did not make the pizza as shown at Reply 59 referenced above. That pizza was by a member of the PMQ Think Tank. When I clicked on the link to the photo of the pizza by the PMQTT member, it did not appear so I found another way to add the photo to the post. My edit comment was perhaps a bit unclear so I amended it so it is clear that the photo is connected with the last link in the post.

Peter

Peter,

Thanks for clarifying that you did not make the pizza as show at Reply 59.  I thought something was weird when I clicked on your last link and the same photo came up.  I didn't read enough to find out it was the PMQ Think Tank posters photo.  That photo then downloaded on my computer.  I did read you made a 12 day cold fermented dough that produced a crust with a profusion of small blisters in the rim area of the crust.

Norma

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Re: More flavour in dough
« Reply #1118 on: January 22, 2015, 09:10:42 PM »
Norma,

I haven't forgotten your question about suggestions to achieve blistering intentionally. Blistering has always been a hit or miss proposition with me so I never paid a great deal of attention to them even when I knew that many people seemed to like them. But I know that I posted several times about achieving blistering but that was mainly to be thorough and complete in my description of the results I achieved from my experiments. In several cases, the photos did not clearly shown the blistering, again because the blisters did not mean a great deal to me or they were secondary to other things that I deemed to be more important at the time.

I plan to review the cases where I achieved significant blistering to see if I can detect a pattern that might suggest possible experiments. But, as I see it, trying to reproduce something that is hit or miss may not be easy. There has to be a reliable dough formulation at the heart of the experiments to begin with and it will require changing only one variable at a time, and all the related dough preparation and management will have to be nearly identical in each case. It is hard to do these sorts of things in a controlled laboratory setting, nevermind an environment such as you have at market. But let's wait to see what my research tells me.

Peter

Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: More flavour in dough
« Reply #1119 on: January 22, 2015, 09:45:44 PM »

   Norma keeps good notes.....may I suggest that the weather conditions and the dough handling procedures be looked up for the particular days when Norma experienced good/exceptional blistering and see if there may be some secret/clue lying there within. Of course, check the types of flours, hydrations used on those days also.......she uses so many!  :chef:
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