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Author Topic: More flavour in dough  (Read 459221 times)

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Offline Pete-zza

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Re: More flavour in dough
« Reply #1160 on: January 24, 2015, 11:32:32 AM »
Peter, I see almost nothing in those pictures that I would call "blistering."
Craig,

If you use the zoom feature, as I did (at 300%), you will clearly see the blistering. In some cases, the blistering is not as noticeable as in others because MM workers brush a melted butter with garlic onto the rims, which gives a sheen to the rims and may obscure some of the blisters, and then dust the rims with grated Parmesan cheese, which can also conceal some of the blisters in some cases. In the two instances I had pizzas at the MM store in Florida, there were clearly blisters on the rims of the pizzas. I specifically mentioned the blisters in Reply 40 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=3940.msg151292#msg151292 (my first visit) and in Reply 2062 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=3940.msg352127#msg352127 (my second visit).

Peter

Offline TXCraig1

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Re: More flavour in dough
« Reply #1161 on: January 24, 2015, 11:39:01 AM »
If you use the zoom feature, as I did (at 300%), you will clearly see the blistering.

Maybe the tiniest of micro-blisters? Which photo most clearly shows blistering in your opinion?
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Offline norma427

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Re: More flavour in dough
« Reply #1162 on: January 24, 2015, 12:34:43 PM »
Norma,

One of the experiments I conducted with a Lehmann NY style dough formulation involved using a Lehmann dough that had been cold fermented for about three days and then frozen for about 17 1/2 days. The dough was then defrosted in the refrigerator for about one day and held on the bench for tempering for about 1 1/2 hours at room temperature. So, the total fermentation time might have been around 4 days--about three days initially (before freezing) and maybe another day between the defrosting of the dough in the refrigerator and tempering it on the bench. The experiment itself is described in Reply 830 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=576.msg96046#msg96046. As I noted in that post, the finished crust did have a profusion of blisters (and bubbles). The blistering can be best seen by amplifying the photo of a slice of the pizza in Reply 831. Whether the method I used to bake the pizza contributed to the blistering is hard to say but it is possible, I suppose, that it did, especially since there was good oven spring and many bubbles along with the blisters.

Further to the matter of blistering of crusts made from frozen dough, you might find the photos of Mellow Mushroom pizzas at the Flickr website of interest, at:

https://www.flickr.com/search/?q=mellow%20mushroom%20pizza

You might look at the Flickr photos in the context of my post at Reply 2030 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=3940.msg339589#msg339589.

I mention the above examples merely to point out that blistering seems to be closely associated with doughs that have had long fermentations. But, in the case of the MM frozen doughs, it is perhaps due to the use of a lot of yeast in the dough rather than very long fermentation times as is often the case of doughs with much less yeast. I can also assure you that the workers at MM stores have made pizzas out of dough balls that were on their last legs. And I would guess that those are the ones with the most blisters.

Peter

Peter,

Thanks for referencing your experiment you conducted with a Lehmann NY style formulation that involved using a Lehmann dough, that had been cold fermented for about 3 days and then was frozen for about 17 days.  I did see the blistering when I amplified the photo at Reply 831.

I did find the photos of the Mellow Mushroom pizzas at the Flickr website of interest. 

I understand that your examples merely points out that blistering seems to be closely associated with dough that had long fermentations. 

I wonder then since the experiment with Tony's flour really wasn't that long of a fermentation, how those blisters occurred.

Norma

Offline woodmakesitgood

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Re: More flavour in dough
« Reply #1163 on: January 24, 2015, 12:47:32 PM »

I understand that your examples merely points out that blistering seems to be closely associated with dough that had long fermentations. 

I wonder then since the experiment with Tony's flour really wasn't that long of a fermentation, how those blisters occurred.

Norma

Norma, thanks for adding that the experiment with Tony's flour wasn't a long fermentation,
was that the same dough ball that warmed up longer than normal and maybe tripled in size?

It could be the degree of fermentation was increased by the room temp rise rather than the CF time, or the amount of yeast.  And that contributed to the blistering.  :-\

Charles
Charles

Offline norma427

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Re: More flavour in dough
« Reply #1164 on: January 24, 2015, 12:58:10 PM »
Norma,

If I correctly understood your comment, I do not believe that Tom meant to say that bromated flours cause blistering. I think he was only speculating as to such a cause and why he suggested that the PMQTT member who was trying to prevent blistering try unbromated flour to see if that eliminated blistering. As Tom himself said at the PMQTT at http://thinktank.pmq.com/threads/pizza-dough.6414/#post-42217, blistering was not a topic that was studied in depth (I assume at the AIB), so that leaves us with having to do research on our own to determine the true causes of blistering.

As for Tony's 00 flour, I do not believe that that flour is the cause of blistering. By that, I mean that I do not see anything in Tony's flour that causes blistering. Rather, I see the management of the dough using such a flour as containing the causes of blistering, either alone, as in long fermentations, or in conjunction with something else.

Peter

Peter,

Thanks for explaining what Tom Lehmann meant.  I agree that leaves us to do the research on our own to determine the true causes of blistering. 

Do you think low diastatic malt would cause blistering?  Even on the milk kefir pizza I experimented with using Tony's flour there was blistering on the rim crust if the close-up photo is looked at at Reply 10 http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=35764.msg356838#msg356838 (8th photo down), but that blistering was not as pronounced as what the recent experiment had.  Maybe the milk kefir starter had something to do with it not blistering as much.  I know I am just guessing.

I decided to look up blistering at AB Mauri.  If bubbles and blisters are click on at this link http://www.abmauri.in/index.php/ask-eddie/interesting-facts  it can be seen that it says check if the dough was slack, and check if proofing times were excessive, but I think that probably relates more to bread crust rather than pizza crusts.

Norma

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Offline norma427

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Re: More flavour in dough
« Reply #1165 on: January 24, 2015, 01:02:14 PM »
Norma, thanks for adding that the experiment with Tony's flour wasn't a long fermentation,
was that the same dough ball that warmed up longer than normal and maybe tripled in size?

It could be the degree of fermentation was increased by the room temp rise rather than the CF time, or the amount of yeast.  And that contributed to the blistering.  :-\

Charles

Charles,

Yes, that dough ball was warmed up longer than normal and probably about tripled in size.  There really wasn't a lot of yeast in that dough.    I still am trying to figure things out, and probably never will really understand.   :-\  Thanks for your thoughts!

Norma

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: More flavour in dough
« Reply #1166 on: January 24, 2015, 01:40:23 PM »
Maybe the tiniest of micro-blisters? Which photo most clearly shows blistering in your opinion?
Craig,

It would be too difficult and time consuming to go through over 150 photos and magnify them to find the best example of blistering in my opinion. So, I scanned the photos and selected a few examples that I then magnified on my computer:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/mrsdragon/5996649990/in/photolist-a8Up85-eVBrPY-nM6NR1-a8Up6E-bb1YU6-pYjsH-bxJKa5-8ZMkUs-cQDYoU-cy524W-e1EkKB-dLsWwP-nNW1nV-6yQuuu-djG5Ry-dLyupJ-9zHHt6-ajFTi9-bnLoxu-aTU4Ng-68eKFd-cipJTq-fn89uV-a9usoP-pqDjsf-6xVcWA-a2tFfH-hv3kXH-hnRjcT-5ni4o8-nNGMFC-nKPdrj-bkcvFY-aEqXfv-8ZJfz6-crNpk3-9eqL2z-eU3edq-kz1yez-hHuK2z-8tqb7N-8z8jZ4-bWQJtt-aeNUnm-ced76L-b5nhGc-b5n9NP-cUJs7j-6vJrs7-aEMWHg

https://www.flickr.com/photos/mrsdragon/5996649908/in/photolist-a8Up6E-bb1YU6-pYjsH-bxJKa5-8ZMkUs-cQDYoU-cy524W-e1EkKB-dLsWwP-nNW1nV-6yQuuu-djG5Ry-dLyupJ-9zHHt6-ajFTi9-bnLoxu-aTU4Ng-68eKFd-cipJTq-fn89uV-a9usoP-pqDjsf-6xVcWA-a2tFfH-hv3kXH-hnRjcT-5ni4o8-nNGMFC-nKPdrj-bkcvFY-aEqXfv-8ZJfz6-crNpk3-9eqL2z-eU3edq-kz1yez-hHuK2z-8tqb7N-8z8jZ4-bWQJtt-aeNUnm-ced76L-b5nhGc-b5n9NP-cUJs7j-6vJrs7-aEMWHg-dUECb1-aEMTGD-ejpDxx

https://www.flickr.com/photos/donwest48/3459325204/in/photolist-6gFWS1-nWMx8N-oe7mwj-og3WKp-nWM5Fb-nWMuEH-oe7qYf-nWMfKC-odYJeF-oe7pKJ-diQTgk-97ZLTZ-6o12mH-pR6CMR-8eSwBd-4riE8B-ksDWm-9eoerj-pR6CMk-9pbh7f-5GgtMP-9p8e12-anrKE6-dqhV9R-pR6CLt-a4EP5k-9REFCz-dtRJLD-3vrXt5-9DQvLG-9Svo75-p2HkrC-9B9yq9-8JxVAB-58iLPW-67UELu-ejgB72-AXc6L-9ys3aj-7gVfKc-pR6CL8-8yaY9v-5TTMR4-dZkdNv-7ZqyrJ-fbEcnX-9Bf3Mo-9V4Hej-9bEQxq-d7jXDs

I apologize for the long Flickr links but I could not find a way to copy the photos into my computer and attach them to this post.

I would be surprised if MM corporate would want its franchisees to let their dough balls reach the stage where there is blistering. In the first two photos shown above, the combination of large bubbles and blistering is perhaps not something the MM store workers strive for. I am guessing that blistering is a hit or miss proposition. I also wouldn't be surprised if some franchisees refreeze defrosted dough rather than throw it away as MM corporate would perhaps instruct in their manuals.

You can also see some blistering in one of the pizzas that Norma purchased at a Washington, DC MM, at Reply 425 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=3940.msg157607#msg157607 (second photo).

Peter

Offline CaptBob

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Re: More flavour in dough
« Reply #1167 on: January 24, 2015, 03:18:21 PM »
Bob,

I think there are many people that would like to achieve blisters consistently, but they aren't always obtainable.  Maybe you will be the first person to be able to obtain them all the time.   8)  What was you dough formulation, and what method did you use to open your dough balls?

Norma

Norma....I've been using the Apizza Scholls, http://doughgenerator.allsimbaseball9.com/recipe.php?recipe_id=8,  recipe with the exceptions of using beer for the poolish and increasing the IDY to .05%.  As you know I've been using the Caputo Metro A 00 as of late and have been very happy with it. These particular dough balls spent two days in the fridge and then 6 hours on the counter. Sometimes I'll put them in the oven with the light on for an hour or so. As far as opening the dough balls I'm no pro but I think I do it like many do by defining the rim (I flip it and do both sides) with my finger tips and then do the knuckle stretch. I build my pies on the peel.

I am making some pies tonight and will do one of them with oil on the rim. Who knows what'll happen as far as blistering goes but I'll post pics over in my thread.

I know Peter mentioned Tom Using the oil to counter the effects of oxidation but one of the videos I saw had Tom mentioning oiling the rim to enhance browning which is why I began doing it. I am surely not qualified to get in to the nuts and boltz of blistering and my simple brain can only tell if it did or didn't happen because of oiling pre bake. Or did it..............?
« Last Edit: January 24, 2015, 04:37:36 PM by CaptBob »
Bob

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: More flavour in dough
« Reply #1168 on: January 24, 2015, 04:22:44 PM »
Do you think low diastatic malt would cause blistering?  Even on the milk kefir pizza I experimented with using Tony's flour there was blistering on the rim crust if the close-up photo is looked at at Reply 10 http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=35764.msg356838#msg356838 (8th photo down), but that blistering was not as pronounced as what the recent experiment had.  Maybe the milk kefir starter had something to do with it not blistering as much.  I know I am just guessing.

I decided to look up blistering at AB Mauri.  If bubbles and blisters are click on at this link http://www.abmauri.in/index.php/ask-eddie/interesting-facts  it can be seen that it says check if the dough was slack, and check if proofing times were excessive, but I think that probably relates more to bread crust rather than pizza crusts.

Norma
Norma,

If I recall correctly, Tony G's flour is already malted and that you did not use the 2% low-diastatic malt with that flour. Is that correct? Also, as best I can tell, you made the milk kefir dough, at 15% of the formula flour, on the morning of Dec. 28 (2014), which was a Sunday, and kept it at room temperature until sometime on Dec. 30, which was a Tuesday. On Tuesday, you apparently decided to put the dough into your prep fridge, because you felt that the dough was fermenting too fast, but sometime on that day you took the dough out of the prep fridge and allowed it to warm up for three hours. You then made the pizza with it. Did I get this right?

As for the cause of the blistering, I am not inclined to believe that the cause was the diastatic malt, especially if you did not add 2% low-diastatic malt to the flour. In the literature, especially in the art of bread making, and including the AB Mauri FAQ item you cited, blistering is sometimes blamed on the organic acids produced during fermentation of the dough. However, on Dec. 29 (Monday), the pH reading was 5.58, which is not particularly acidic, even at the 15% quantity you used. So, unless the pH number dropped materially from 5.58 on Monday until the time you made the pizza using the dough on Tuesday, it would have been unlikely in my opinion that the organic acids were responsible for the blistering. But, without a pH reading on Tuesday, there is no way to know for sure. And, even then, there may have been another cause, as I discuss in the next paragraph.

I would be inclined to blame the long room temperature fermentation for the blistering. According to the spacing of the poppy seeds on Dec. 30 (Monday), the dough had already tripled in volume by that time and that was before it was later subjected to another three hours at room temperature after you removed the dough from the prep fridge. If I got the facts straight, I suspect that the dough was well along the fermentation curve by the time you used it to make the pizza. I believe the duration of the fermentation was somewhere around three days, and most of it was at room temperature. It is hard to be precise because part of the fermentation was at 71 degrees F and part was at around 50 degrees F and another part was at the temperature of your prep fridge. But, overall, maybe the fermentation was advanced enough to result in the blistering of the finished crust.

Peter

Offline TXCraig1

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Re: More flavour in dough
« Reply #1169 on: January 24, 2015, 05:03:51 PM »
It would be too difficult and time consuming to go through over 150 photos and magnify them to find the best example of blistering in my opinion. So, I scanned the photos and selected a few examples that I then magnified on my computer:

Peter,
My intent was not for you to look through all the pictures - rather just to see some that you thought showed blistering so I would know what you were looking at. Thank you for posting those. I'm 99% positive that there is no blistering, micro or other, on the pies in the links you posted (the first two links are different pictures of the same pie). In both, all I see is a mixture of grated cheese and oil that kind of resembles blistering in some places, but nothing that I could call blistering with any level of certainty. Maybe there is some in the pictures Norma posted, but they are too low res to be able to see much.

I looked a bunch more MM pictures, and I did see at least one with meaningful blisters, nonetheless, I stand by my original assessment that there is virtually no blistering (other than perhaps some micro-blistering that doesn't resolve well enough to confirm or deny) on the MM pies.

« Last Edit: January 24, 2015, 05:26:33 PM by TXCraig1 »
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Offline Pete-zza

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Re: More flavour in dough
« Reply #1170 on: January 24, 2015, 06:59:54 PM »
Craig,

Thank you for your analysis of the photos I referenced.

I can only speak first hand about the two pizzas I had at the Florida MM location. And both of those pizzas had blisters on the rims. Moreover, on the second visit, I did not see any butter or oil and grated cheese on the rim. It's possible that was also the case on my first visit because I did not mention any butter or oil or grated cheese on the rim of the pizza in my post about that visit. But that was over four years ago, and while I have a pretty good memory, I wouldn't count on it unless I had also written in my notes about the application of butter or oil or grated cheese to the rim of the pizza. But the blistering was not grated cheese on top of butter or oil. It was only later that I even learned that butter and grated cheese were added to the rims of the MM pizzas, so I would not have noted their omission.

In a home setting, I was able to make a clone of the MM dough that had blistering of the rim but not to the same extent as I saw on my first MM visit. Norma also made several MM clones and while many of them did not have blistering, I recall one that she showed at Reply 905 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=3940.msg164235#msg164235 (second photo), that, upon magnification, appears to show blistering. In that case, it does not appear that she used anything on the rim. She may remember better than I whether she actually got blistering of the rims of any of her MM clones, not only the one at Reply 905. Notably, the pizza shown in Reply 905 was made using a twice frozen dough. That would seem to be a good candidate for blistering.

Peter

Offline norma427

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Re: More flavour in dough
« Reply #1171 on: January 24, 2015, 08:38:03 PM »
Norma....I've been using the Apizza Scholls, http://doughgenerator.allsimbaseball9.com/recipe.php?recipe_id=8,  recipe with the exceptions of using beer for the poolish and increasing the IDY to .05%.  As you know I've been using the Caputo Metro A 00 as of late and have been very happy with it. These particular dough balls spent two days in the fridge and then 6 hours on the counter. Sometimes I'll put them in the oven with the light on for an hour or so. As far as opening the dough balls I'm no pro but I think I do it like many do by defining the rim (I flip it and do both sides) with my finger tips and then do the knuckle stretch. I build my pies on the peel.

I am making some pies tonight and will do one of them with oil on the rim. Who knows what'll happen as far as blistering goes but I'll post pics over in my thread.

I know Peter mentioned Tom Using the oil to counter the effects of oxidation but one of the videos I saw had Tom mentioning oiling the rim to enhance browning which is why I began doing it. I am surely not qualified to get in to the nuts and boltz of blistering and my simple brain can only tell if it did or didn't happen because of oiling pre bake. Or did it..............?

Bob,

I forgot what recipe you had been using, but thanks for reminding me.  Apizza Scholls recipe is really good! I do recall you have been using the Caputo Metro A 00 flour.  Thanks also for telling us how long those particular dough balls spent in the fridge and on the counter that got the blistering.  Your pies always look beautiful.  :)

I will look on your thread when you brush oil on a rim to see what happens. 

Tom talks about brushing the whole skin with a light coating of oil in the one part of the article at http://www.pizzatoday.com/departments/in-the-kitchen/oil-n-dough/ 

Maybe this is the video from Tom that you watched, where he brushes the whole dough skin with oil.

 

Norma

Offline norma427

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Re: More flavour in dough
« Reply #1172 on: January 24, 2015, 08:49:40 PM »
Norma,

If I recall correctly, Tony G's flour is already malted and that you did not use the 2% low-diastatic malt with that flour. Is that correct? Also, as best I can tell, you made the milk kefir dough, at 15% of the formula flour, on the morning of Dec. 28 (2014), which was a Sunday, and kept it at room temperature until sometime on Dec. 30, which was a Tuesday. On Tuesday, you apparently decided to put the dough into your prep fridge, because you felt that the dough was fermenting too fast, but sometime on that day you took the dough out of the prep fridge and allowed it to warm up for three hours. You then made the pizza with it. Did I get this right?

As for the cause of the blistering, I am not inclined to believe that the cause was the diastatic malt, especially if you did not add 2% low-diastatic malt to the flour. In the literature, especially in the art of bread making, and including the AB Mauri FAQ item you cited, blistering is sometimes blamed on the organic acids produced during fermentation of the dough. However, on Dec. 29 (Monday), the pH reading was 5.58, which is not particularly acidic, even at the 15% quantity you used. So, unless the pH number dropped materially from 5.58 on Monday until the time you made the pizza using the dough on Tuesday, it would have been unlikely in my opinion that the organic acids that were responsible for the blistering. But, without a pH reading on Tuesday, there is no way to know for sure. And, even then, there may have been another cause, as I discuss in the next paragraph.

I would be inclined to blame the long room temperature fermentation for the blistering. According to the spacing of the poppy seeds on Dec. 30 (Monday), the dough had already tripled in volume by that time and that was before it was later subjected to another three hours at room temperature after you removed the dough from the prep fridge. If I got the facts straight, I suspect that the dough was well along the fermentation curve by the time you used it to make the pizza. I believe the duration of the fermentation was somewhere around three days, and most of it was at room temperature. It is hard to be precise because part of the fermentation was at 71 degrees F and part was at around 50 degrees F and another part was at the temperature of your prep fridge. But, overall, maybe the fermentation was advanced enough to result in the blistering of the finished crust.

Peter

Peter,

Your are right on all counts about what I did with the milk kefir dough.  ;D Sorry to make you look back through all I did when making that dough. Thanks for telling me you would tend to think the blistering was from the long room temperature fermentation. 

Norma

Offline norma427

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Re: More flavour in dough
« Reply #1173 on: January 24, 2015, 08:55:13 PM »

Norma also made several MM clones and while many of them did not have blistering, I recall one that she showed at Reply 905 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=3940.msg164235#msg164235 (second photo), that, upon magnification, appears to show blistering. In that case, it does not appear that she used anything on the rim. She may remember better than I whether she actually got blistering of the rims of any of her MM clones, not only the one at Reply 905. Notably, the pizza shown in Reply 905 was made using a twice frozen dough. That would seem to be a good candidate for blistering.

Peter

Craig and Peter,

I think there was blistering on the twice frozen dough pizza from the photo I posted at Reply 907 http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=3940.msg164237#msg164237

I also think blistering can be seen in a DC Mellow Mushroom crust that we brought home at the second photo I posted at Reply 444 http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=3940.msg157630#msg157630  I don't recall seeing that the dough balls were over fermented that, or nearly so, but I can't be positive that the MM workers didn't use another tray of dough balls for the pizza we brought home.

Norma

Offline TXCraig1

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Re: More flavour in dough
« Reply #1174 on: January 24, 2015, 11:52:14 PM »
I agree on that last one. Not as sure about the first.
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Offline CaptBob

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Re: More flavour in dough
« Reply #1175 on: January 25, 2015, 12:43:01 AM »
Norma....I posted some pics over in my thread tonight but I'll post a couple here as well. These pics are from a pie baked in my kitchen oven tonight on my Lodge cast iron pan. The temp on the pan at launch was 570. I did brush the rim with EVOO pre bake and it appears as if I did get some blistering. Didn't I???
« Last Edit: January 25, 2015, 12:48:56 AM by CaptBob »
Bob

Offline norma427

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Re: More flavour in dough
« Reply #1176 on: January 25, 2015, 07:31:47 AM »
Norma....I posted some pics over in my thread tonight but I'll post a couple here as well. These pics are from a pie baked in my kitchen oven tonight on my Lodge cast iron pan. The temp on the pan at launch was 570. I did brush the rim with EVOO pre bake and it appears as if I did get some blistering. Didn't I???

Bob,

I agree you did achieve some great blisters!  ;D  Since you posted before you do a longer warm-up of your dough balls, did you do the same thing for that dough ball that you achieved the blistering?

Norma

Offline CaptBob

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Re: More flavour in dough
« Reply #1177 on: January 25, 2015, 09:20:49 AM »
Morning Norma....these dough balls went in to the fridge immediately after balling on Thursday.. That was after a four hour bulk ferment during which there were three stretch and folds. I took them out of the fridge yesterday morning and they sat on the counter for about eight hours prior to opening. The dough temp was 68 when I opened them and they opened beautifully.

I guess the other take away for me is that the Caputo Metro A 00 does indeed work OK at lower temperatures as advertised. I'm anxious to try the new Caputo New York style flour.
« Last Edit: January 25, 2015, 09:25:14 AM by CaptBob »
Bob

Offline jvp123

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Re: More flavour in dough
« Reply #1178 on: January 25, 2015, 11:10:00 AM »
Saw the discussion on blisters ...

Here is one pie with oil brushed on crust from last night and another without ... I know its not easy to see but the brushed oil one has more blistering than the other.

edit - both pies 48hrs at 61F
« Last Edit: January 25, 2015, 11:16:05 AM by jvp123 »
Jeff

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: More flavour in dough
« Reply #1179 on: January 25, 2015, 11:11:40 AM »
Yesterday, I decided to look at the photos in the posts of the emergency dough recipes as set forth in the collection of emergency dough recipes at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=8297.msg71576#msg71576. What I was looking for were emergency doughs that, when made into pizzas, had blistering on the rims of pizzas. To qualify as an "emergency" dough for definitional purposes, I meant a dough that was made at room temperature and ready to be used in about four hours.

Although some of the styles do not have distinct rims but are rather on the flat side, such as the Chicago thin and cracker style pizzas, to be thorough in my study I decided to look at all of the styles anyway except for the Sicilian style pizzas that, because they are baked in pans, do not have a distinct rim as are common, for example, with the NY, Neapolitan and American style pizzas. I even looked at the Chicago deep-dish pizzas even though they do not have rims. As it turned out, those pizzas did not exhibit blistering anywhere on the crusts that I could see. It may well be that the high fat/oil quantities used in such pizzas inhibits any kind of blistering, especially given the short fermentation windows.

My study of the photos did not find any emergency dough that produced a crust with a blistered rim. In a few cases I saw blistering of rims but, upon further analysis, I found that they were not made from emergency doughs as I defined them but rather from doughs that had been fermented for more than four hours, usually considerably longer, even days. The posts for such doughs were usually entered to make a point or for a member to suggest improvements. For the most part, the rims of the pizzas I looked at tended to be quite smooth with few surface irregularities other than some occasional bubbling or charring. And some crusts were lighter in color than others. But no blistering.

I can't say that I was surprised not to find an emergency dough (as I defined it) that yielded a crust with a blistered rim. Even though emergency doughs use a lot of yeast (more than normal) and water that is quite a bit warmer than normal, such doughs rarely approach a condition of exhaustion from a fermentation standpoint where they are on their last legs. One can usually punch the dough balls down, sometimes even more than once, and they will start their rise again. They also have little opportunity to yield acids in sufficient quantity to affect the finished crusts because of the short fermentation window.

There may well be doughs that were fermented longer than four hours but less than the roughly three days of cold fermentation that I mentioned in one of my earlier posts, so there is that gap where doughs might exist that did yield crusts with blistered rims. As one example I found this morning, see http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=14486.msg144461#msg144461. In that example, the fermentation was two days (cold fermentation) but the pizza was baked part of the time under the broiler. Whether that affected blistering I have no idea. Also, no oil was brushed on the rim of the skin.

Peter


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