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Author Topic: Diastatic Malt--The Pizza Bible  (Read 133354 times)

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Offline dsissitka

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Re: Diastatic Malt--The Pizza Bible
« Reply #20 on: November 03, 2014, 09:09:14 PM »
Did you make a NY style or ?

I'm not sure what to call it. Basically a slightly thinner version of the pizza you make in the master class. Somewhere between American and New York style.

Seriously, though, can you describe what you liked or what made it different?

There were two things that really stood out:

 - It was unusually smooth. Usually when I stretch my dough it loses the smooth feeling that balling gives. That didn't happen this time.
 - The bubbles in the dough were much smaller and much more uniform.

The elasticity/extensibility balance could've been better. I think three minutes of hand kneading might be a little low. How's it been working out for you?

Offline norma427

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Re: Diastatic Malt--The Pizza Bible
« Reply #21 on: November 03, 2014, 09:19:50 PM »
I asked Tony about the malt on facebook.  This is what Tony replied.  As for Malt the one I recommend is Low Diastatic Malt from Central Milling. The best around. With it being Diastatic it will help the breakdown of complex sugars as well as assisting in browning, a vehicle for yeast and simple sugar.  I asked Tony if anyone can purchase the Low Diastatic Malt and this is what he replied.  Yes just call. Several have.  I asked if the diastatic malt is wet or dry and Tony said it is dry.

Norma
« Last Edit: November 03, 2014, 09:22:46 PM by norma427 »

Online Pete-zza

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Re: Diastatic Malt--The Pizza Bible
« Reply #22 on: November 03, 2014, 09:24:25 PM »
Norma,

Good job.

Here is another possible source of low diastatic malt: http://nybakers.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=60

Peter

Offline norma427

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Re: Diastatic Malt--The Pizza Bible
« Reply #23 on: November 03, 2014, 09:36:45 PM »
Norma,

Here is another possible source of low diastatic malt: http://nybakers.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=60

Peter

Peter,

Thanks for the additional link.  Tony asked me if I would post the same question at http://www.thepizzabible.com/  I signed up with my name, email address and a password.  The website won't let me sign in now.

Norma

Edited:

Just to explain if anyone else want to post on the Pizza Bible's website.

Tony had the webmaster email me of why I might not be able to log in to the Pizza Bible website.  The webmaster told me it looked like my account was created, but was not confirmed.  I needed to confirm through the link in a confirmation email that I was registered.  The confirmation email was in my email spam folder.  Usually confirmation emails don't go into my spam folder, but this time it did.

« Last Edit: November 04, 2014, 07:09:23 AM by norma427 »

Offline Wazza McG

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Re: Diastatic Malt--The Pizza Bible
« Reply #24 on: November 07, 2014, 05:15:20 PM »
I purchase my diastatic malt from Basic Ingredients here in Australia.

They have 2 types - Diastatic Pure and Diastatic Malt 10

Diastatic Malt 10 is 1 part Diastatic Malt and 9 parts Bread Flour.

I believe they sell it like this as Diastatic Malt 10 is easier to measure EG. 3 tsp per Kg of flour.

https://basicingredients.com.au/index.php/diastatic-malt10-200-g.html?SID=c00af089d01fd4c08b97eb84328de30b

Fair Dinkum - you want more Pizza!  Crikey ! I've run out out them prawny thingymebobs again!

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Online Pete-zza

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Re: Diastatic Malt--The Pizza Bible
« Reply #25 on: November 07, 2014, 09:14:20 PM »
Can anyone tell me if Tony describes the diastatic malt in the book as a low diastatic malt, or otherwise provides a Lintner number?

Peter

Offline dsissitka

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Re: Diastatic Malt--The Pizza Bible
« Reply #26 on: November 07, 2014, 09:18:43 PM »
Can anyone tell me if Tony describes the diastatic malt in the book as a low diastatic malt, or otherwise provides a Lintner number?

Peter

No mention of degrees Lintner. He says:

"There are two kinds of malt: diastatic and nondiastatic. Diastatic (sometimes labeled low-diastatic)..."

Online Pete-zza

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Re: Diastatic Malt--The Pizza Bible
« Reply #27 on: November 08, 2014, 09:51:09 AM »
No mention of degrees Lintner. He says:

"There are two kinds of malt: diastatic and nondiastatic. Diastatic (sometimes labeled low-diastatic)..."
As Norma told us recently at Reply 21 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,34845.msg347123.html#msg347123, Tony recommends that a low diastatic malt be used for his dough recipes. He specifically mentioned Central Milling as a source of that product.

I was curious to know more about low diastatic malts and other possible sources, so yesterday I spent a fair amount of time researching low diastatic malts. Previously, I had cited this website where a low diastatic malt is offered at retail: http://nybakers.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=60. That product is actually a Fleischmann's malt product. Fleischmann's is owned by AB Mauri. The Fleischmann's low diastatic malt is also available to professionals at http://www.foodservicedirect.com/product.cfm/p/155426/Fleischmanns-Yeast-AB-Mauri-Dry-Malt.htm. Other sources of low diastatic malts for professionals are these:

http://www.maltproducts.com/products.malt.html

http://www.briess.com/food/Products/mimbf.php

http://www.premiermalt.com/malt.products.html

http://www.lesaffreyeastcorp.com/products/malted-ingredients/red-star-drymalt-product-20 (see, also http://www.lsaf.com/sites/default/files/Product%20Sheet.pdf and http://www.lesaffreyeastcorp.com/sites/default/files/products_files/Tech%20Sheet%20-%20%20RS%20Diastatic%20Malt%2C24000%2C24100%20Rev%202%2C%2009-02-09.pdf)

What I was especially looking for at the above websites was Lintner numbers. Low diastatic malts typically have low Lintner (degrees Lintner) numbers, signifying low enzyme activity. The benefit of low Lintner malt products is that they can be used at considerably higher levels than high diastatic malts. For example, the Red Star low diastatic (they call it low activity) malt (referenced above) can be used at levels of from 0.5-5%. The Briess website mentions using up to 3%. I do not know what dictates a specific value to use but I would imagine that the cited ranges cover the addition of the malt to flours that have no malt whatsoever to flours that have small amounts of malt from the millers. That range might also cover situations where the malt replaces sugar in a given formulation. Apparently Tony concluded that 2% low diastatic malt is the best value for his purposes. The good news is that the actual amount of diastatic malt that Tony recommends is not likely to be excessive from an enzyme standpoint.

By way of further background, in general, most commercial dry diastatic malts typically include a combination of dextrose, flour and barley malt. Depending on the order of these ingredients, one can end up with a low diastatic malt or a high diastatic malt, and the sequence specifies the degree Lintner. In reviewing the abovereferenced websites, I believe that a degree Lintner value of about 20L is perhaps the value that members should look for. Some of the abovementioned websites list Lintner values, but their malt products are not available at retail. On the retail side, King Arthur sells a diastatic malt, with the specs at https://www.kingarthurflour.com/shop-img/labels/1298304180122.pdf , and while the ingredients for the malt are given, there is no recitation of the degree Lintner number. The amount of their product to use is given, and based on their recommended usage levels, I estimate that the percentage figure is about 0.25-0.5%. That range would suggest a high diastatic malt but it may be that KA is conservative in its use instructions.

The bottom line is that members should perhaps look for low diastatic malts with low degree Lintner numbers. In my research, I saw quite a few brewing websites that also sell malt products, including from some of the commercial sources referenced above. I believe the key thing is to look for low degree Lintner numbers or language signifying that the product is a low diastatic malt. Hopefully, readers of Tony's book don't take his description of the diastatic malt to mean just any diastatic malt.

Peter

EDIT (11/15/16): For the Wayback Machine version of the above inoperative link to the Red Star 20L product, see http://web.archive.org/web/20160330012616/http://lesaffreyeastcorp.com/products/malted-ingredients/red-star-drymalt-product-20; note, also, that the general diastatic pdf document cited above appears to be no longer available online or at the current Lesaffre/Red Star website, so one may want to contact the company for specific information.


Offline dsissitka

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Re: Diastatic Malt--The Pizza Bible
« Reply #28 on: November 08, 2014, 03:51:58 PM »
I wonder how Central Milling's measures. Did you ask? If not, I think I will when I order.

Online Pete-zza

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Re: Diastatic Malt--The Pizza Bible
« Reply #29 on: November 08, 2014, 04:08:05 PM »
I wonder how Central Milling's measures. Did you ask? If not, I think I will when I order.
I don't believe Norma asked Tony, and I didn't get that far. I had previously looked at the Central Milling website but did not see malt listed as one of their products. However, I did see a post at http://www.thefreshloaf.com/comment/177920#comment-177920 where the poster said that Central Milling added diastatic malt to their organic flours.

Peter

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Offline Essen1

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Re: Diastatic Malt--The Pizza Bible
« Reply #30 on: November 08, 2014, 04:24:25 PM »
I wonder how Central Milling's measures. Did you ask? If not, I think I will when I order.

I'm not sure Central Milling is selling it at the retail level. No such product on their list.

http://centralmilling.com/collections/all

And at Giustos.com they only have it listed in the Professional section.

http://giustos.com/professional/all-natural-barley-malt-46.html

But you might want to call them up and ask for Nicky Giusto. He might be able to hook you up with a 5lb bag. He helped me on several occasions regarding flours.
« Last Edit: November 08, 2014, 04:29:13 PM by Essen1 »
Mike

ďAll styles of pizza are valid. I make the best Iím capable of; you should make the best youíre capable of. I donít want to make somebody elseís pizza.Ē ~ Chris Bianco

Offline Essen1

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Re: Diastatic Malt--The Pizza Bible
« Reply #31 on: November 08, 2014, 04:25:35 PM »
I don't believe Norma asked Tony, and I didn't get that far. I had previously looked at the Central Milling website but did not see malt listed as one of their products. However, I did see a post at http://www.thefreshloaf.com/comment/177920#comment-177920 where the poster said that Central Milling added diastatic malt to their organic flours.

Peter

Peter,

She did.

http://www.thepizzabible.com/posts/what-kind-of-malt
Mike

ďAll styles of pizza are valid. I make the best Iím capable of; you should make the best youíre capable of. I donít want to make somebody elseís pizza.Ē ~ Chris Bianco

Offline dsissitka

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Re: Diastatic Malt--The Pizza Bible
« Reply #32 on: November 08, 2014, 04:29:58 PM »
I'm not sure central Milling is selling it at the retail level. No such product on their list.

http://centralmilling.com/collections/all

It looks like they might:

I asked Tony about the malt on facebook.  This is what Tony replied.  As for Malt the one I recommend is Low Diastatic Malt from Central Milling. The best around. With it being Diastatic it will help the breakdown of complex sugars as well as assisting in browning, a vehicle for yeast and simple sugar.  I asked Tony if anyone can purchase the Low Diastatic Malt and this is what he replied.  Yes just call. Several have.  I asked if the diastatic malt is wet or dry and Tony said it is dry.

Norma

I'm going to give them a call.

Online Pete-zza

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Re: Diastatic Malt--The Pizza Bible
« Reply #33 on: November 08, 2014, 04:36:05 PM »
Mike,

I was aware that Norma asked Tony about the diastatic malt and got his answer but I believe that dsissitka was referring to the Lintner number for the Central Milling diastatic malt. Tony indicated that Central Milling would be a source of the diastatic malt. See Reply 21 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,34845.msg347123.html#msg347123.

Peter

Offline Essen1

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Re: Diastatic Malt--The Pizza Bible
« Reply #34 on: November 08, 2014, 04:40:16 PM »
Mike,

I was aware that Norma asked Tony about the diastatic malt and got his answer but I believe that dsissitka was referring to the Lindner number for the Central Milling diastatic malt. Tony indicated that Central Milling would be a source of the diastatic malt. See Reply 21 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,34845.msg347123.html#msg347123.

Peter

Ahh, didn't see that one.   :-[
Mike

ďAll styles of pizza are valid. I make the best Iím capable of; you should make the best youíre capable of. I donít want to make somebody elseís pizza.Ē ~ Chris Bianco

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Offline Essen1

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Re: Diastatic Malt--The Pizza Bible
« Reply #35 on: November 08, 2014, 04:43:22 PM »
It looks like they might:

I'm going to give them a call.

Sweet. keep us posted.
Mike

ďAll styles of pizza are valid. I make the best Iím capable of; you should make the best youíre capable of. I donít want to make somebody elseís pizza.Ē ~ Chris Bianco

Online Pete-zza

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Re: Diastatic Malt--The Pizza Bible
« Reply #36 on: November 08, 2014, 05:05:08 PM »
In the past, I have mentioned Barry Farm Foods as a source of diastatic malt, at http://www.barryfarm.com/nutri_info/baking%20supplies/diastaticmaltpowder.htm. However, that is most likely a high diastatic malt. The way to tell is to look at the ingredients list. Note that the malted barley flour is first in the list of ingredients. To be a low diastatic malt, the malted barley flour will usually be last in the list. To see similar examples, look at the 60L (high) and 20L (low) ingredients lists for the Red Star malts at http://www.lesaffreyeastcorp.com/sites/default/files/products_files/Tech%20Sheet%20-%20%20RS%20Diastatic%20Malt%2C24000%2C24100%20Rev%202%2C%2009-02-09.pdf. Further evidence of the high diastatic malt for the Barry Farm diastatic malt is this statement at the Barry Farm website: Use approximately 1 tsp. per loaf. The use of more diastatic malt than this can result in slack, sticky dough, and will not improve yeast action.

Peter

EDIT (11/15/16): Since the above diastatic pdf document cited above is apparently no longer available online or at the current Lesaffre/Red Star website, see the following Wayback Machine versions of the Red Star 20L and 60L diastatic malt products: http://web.archive.org/web/20160330012616/http://lesaffreyeastcorp.com/products/malted-ingredients/red-star-drymalt-product-20 and
http://web.archive.org/web/20141207042746/http://www.lesaffreyeastcorp.com/products/malted-ingredients/red-star-dry-malt-product-60

Offline mitchjg

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Re: Diastatic Malt--The Pizza Bible
« Reply #37 on: November 08, 2014, 05:19:55 PM »
I may call them tomorrow, too.  It sounds like their "switchboard" is going to be very busy.   :P
Mitch

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Offline Essen1

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Re: Diastatic Malt--The Pizza Bible
« Reply #38 on: November 08, 2014, 07:16:29 PM »
I may call them tomorrow, too.  It sounds like their "switchboard" is going to be very busy.   :P

Tomorrow is Sunday, bro.

Or do you guys have a different timezone in Oakland than we have here in Marin?  ;D
Mike

ďAll styles of pizza are valid. I make the best Iím capable of; you should make the best youíre capable of. I donít want to make somebody elseís pizza.Ē ~ Chris Bianco

Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: Diastatic Malt--The Pizza Bible
« Reply #39 on: November 08, 2014, 07:21:59 PM »
To the Bat Phone Robin...... ;D
"Care Free Highway...let me slip away on you"

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