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Author Topic: Help me pick a new oven  (Read 1277 times)

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Offline Quebert

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Help me pick a new oven
« on: October 07, 2021, 10:05:46 PM »
Here's a question that hasn't been asked, today *maybe*  my lovely Koda 12's not working, Ooni has been pretty helpful, I'm to the stage they want me to shoot a video of it malfunctioning so they can further help.  I do plan to do that, but I was thinking even if they help me fix it, or they just replace it. I'd like to sell it and get something that's better suited for NY style pizza, as that's what I make the majority of the time.

The Ooni Karu 16's almost out, great! But almost is a month away, and on top of that, I have no idea how long it would be until I can actually get one. I'm a typical American - last night I wasn't even thinking about pizza let alone getting my oven fixed or getting a new one. But now that the thought has entered my thick skull I need to have this resolved in days if possible. I'm pretty sure with Ooni the solution will require a new oven, or at least a new replacement part. So that doesn't fit in my now now now mentality.  I was just about set on the Koda 16, but I for once wisely Googled the dimensions, and it won't fit on my prep table thingy.

So I Googled pizza ovens bunch over the past few hours, there are a lot of reviews and comparisons of the Roccbox vs various Ooni's.  Nothing really went too deep into making NY pizzas. There are a good number of videos on YT where they make NY pizzas in them. But I watched 9 and none touched on the temp in much detail.  I know as far as the Koda 12, Ooni recommends preheating to full temp, then turning the flame off and cooking the NY pizza with ambiant temp for 5 minutes. Then turning it back on just long enough to give the top some color and crust some char.  That feels like a work around to me.  I would like to make pizzas without having to constantly fiddle with %$#. I know me, so I know with that method I'd no doubt forget to turn the flame back on to finish it and have bad pizzas lol.

I had my mind made up I wanted to make bigger pizzas, but after figuring out my prep cart is a bit too small, and not wanting to get a new bigger cart. I've settled on the idea of something about the size of the Koda.

I've never cooked on anything except propane, but I'm not against wood, and even 2 of the ovens in my list are multi fuel.  I like the Breville Pizzoilo, but I don't dig the price. And the kitchen here would be a pretty tight fit for making pizzas in.

I applied for financing from Affirm and got approved, the amount varies from store to store. But I got $2500 for William Sanoma & Gozney.

I would love to hear from someone who's used both the Karu & Roccbox to make NY's.  I know both would be great for Neo's, and from what I'm finding online both will work for Ny's without nearly the level of fiddling I deal with with the Koda 12.

Karu + Gas attachment's $100 less than the Roccbox with wood attachment, close enough in price to me I'm not factoring that in. Now the $$$ difference for the Breville's steep, and it's probably not ideal for outdoor use.   I'd love to see a chart that shows the temp range of the 2 ovens and some info on which can be adjusted better. I understand the Karu's not the Koda at all, but my time with the Koda I assosiate Ooni with 2 temps. HOOOOT or less hot but still hot. Or with fiddling, NY range, but a good chance the flame will go out with so much as 1mph of wind.  And when that happens, getting it back to the temp can be next to impossible. That alone has me thinking I should get a Roccbox, but I'm telling myself I've never used a Karu so I shouldn't write it off it due to my Koda experience.

So, I think my choices are between the Karu 12 and Roccbox. I want to order one tonight so it can maybe ship tomorrow lol. So if anyone has used both and can comment I'm all ears.

For 75% NYs, 25% Neo's, which should I get?


I know (which oven) threads are everywhere, but I'm looking specifically for info about NY pizzas.  Although, if I was getting it strictly for Neo's I'[m not sure which I'd get, so lol.


« Last Edit: October 07, 2021, 10:48:15 PM by Quebert »

Offline ilya_n

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Re: Help me pick a new oven
« Reply #1 on: October 07, 2021, 10:48:57 PM »
Roccbox is awesome. Have you looked at the Dome? Seems pretty interesting in the 1500 range.

Offline Quebert

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Re: Help me pick a new oven
« Reply #2 on: October 07, 2021, 11:06:09 PM »
Roccbox is awesome. Have you looked at the Dome? Seems pretty interesting in the 1500 range.

Yeap I did, the price is a lot more than I want to spend. But, even if I decided screw it and went big.  Gozney say it's on backorder for a long time and has no ETA.  So even if I wanted one, it wouldn't come close to fitting my time frame. And even if I decided to be patient in how long I'll wait, it could be a long long time before I could get my hand on a Dome.  If I'm willing to wait for a while, the  Karu 16 would probably be my choice. I know Ooni says they ship next month, but everything in the past I've seen from them on shipping times. They're being extremely optimistic and it would be March 2022 before I got one lol.  And then I'd have to get a new prep table so it could fit.

The Dome + stand  they have would be like $2k shipped, that's way more than I need to spend.  I was really stuck on an oven that can do 16", but then I thought about how I've made maybe 100 pizzas in my Koda 12, and survived just fine with the "small" pizza size.  The Karu 12 I could technically make slightly bigger pizzas as it has a 13.5" stone like in my Koda, and the Roccbox is a hair over 12", so it would no doubt test my pizza maiking abilities to get a full 12 incher out of it. 

At this point I'm leaning towards the Roccbox, but my reasonings are pretty bad, even for me lol.

1. it would be something new and different
2. It looks nice
3. It comes in green.




Offline barryvabeach

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Re: Help me pick a new oven
« Reply #3 on: October 08, 2021, 07:07:12 AM »
IMO, the best all around pizza oven for the price, for NY or Neapolitan, is the Blackstone - though you would have to find one used and that may take some time.  It does no fiddling pizza, and larger than the 12 inch ones that is the upper limit on the smaller ovens is no problem.  I have the Koda 16,  if you buy a rotating stone kit, it is fine,  without one, IMO,  it has some serious design flaws if you are trying to make 15 inch or so pizzas.  If you are willing to stay with a smaller size pie, while I have never used the Breville, it gets some pretty good reviews. 
Current Ovens  -  BS, Ooni Koda 16
Mixers .   Electrolux ( ANK ) ,  Bosch Compact,
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Offline Quebert

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Re: Help me pick a new oven
« Reply #4 on: October 08, 2021, 09:20:16 PM »
IMO, the best all around pizza oven for the price, for NY or Neapolitan, is the Blackstone - though you would have to find one used and that may take some time.  It does no fiddling pizza, and larger than the 12 inch ones that is the upper limit on the smaller ovens is no problem.  I have the Koda 16,  if you buy a rotating stone kit, it is fine,  without one, IMO,  it has some serious design flaws if you are trying to make 15 inch or so pizzas.  If you are willing to stay with a smaller size pie, while I have never used the Breville, it gets some pretty good reviews.

Funny you mention it, I really really wanted the Blackstone. They were almost impossible to get and when they popped up they were stupid overpriced.  Then BS released them again for like $199, but they sold out before I could get one.  Now I don't see them, and the rare times I do people want big bucks for them.

I ended up ordering the Roccbox last night, and if the email from UPS is accurate it'll be here TOMORROW.  I'm going to run and get flour and try and whip up a 24 hour dough.  And maybe one day Blackstone will re-re-release the pizza oven and I can get one for retail price.
The Roccbox will be nice, and since I'm use to the small size of the Koda I should be able to make a pretty good pizza in it my 1st try.

And I fear one day I'll probably end up breaking down and spend $1k on the Breville.


I ended up also buying the large Ooni prep table today, Ironically the lack of space and not wanting to buy a new table was the reason I didn't buy the Koda 16 lol.
« Last Edit: October 08, 2021, 09:23:00 PM by Quebert »

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Offline Yael

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Re: Help me pick a new oven
« Reply #5 on: October 08, 2021, 09:50:19 PM »
Quebert,

IMO, these gas oven are designed to make high-temperature-baking pizzas, that's to say: Neapolitan pizza. I've seen many people who wanted to make -quite unsuccessfully- NY style pizza on it, ok why not; but one shouldn't expect it to be perfect. It's like buying a sport car for a daily city drive, it's just boring and uncomfortable.

All that to say that maybe these gas ovens are not the best solution to make the pizza you're looking for? I heard good reviews of the Effeuno, wouldn't this one be more suitable? (it's electric, so you can steadily set it any temp you like from 0 to 500°C). I guess you thought about it, and maybe as you said above you have some space problems  :-\.
Keep us updated  :)
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Offline Bill/SFNM

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Re: Help me pick a new oven
« Reply #6 on: October 08, 2021, 10:18:23 PM »

And I fear one day I'll probably end up breaking down and spend $1k on the Breville.


FWIW, I haven't been too pleased with the second-generation Breville for Neapolitan. The Carbon bakes better Neapolitan, IMO. And Chau has been turning out some really great NYC pizzas in his Carbon. I've eaten several, and they were all first-rate. I still use the Breville for pan pizzas and roasted vegetables due to the precise top and bottom temp controls, but Carbon is my go-to for Neapolitan. And it is so easy to use, I hardly ever fire up the WFO anymore.

Offline Quebert

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Re: Help me pick a new oven
« Reply #7 on: October 08, 2021, 11:54:26 PM »
Quebert,

IMO, these gas oven are designed to make high-temperature-baking pizzas, that's to say: Neapolitan pizza. I've seen many people who wanted to make -quite unsuccessfully- NY style pizza on it, ok why not; but one shouldn't expect it to be perfect. It's like buying a sport car for a daily city drive, it's just boring and uncomfortable.

All that to say that maybe these gas ovens are not the best solution to make the pizza you're looking for? I heard good reviews of the Effeuno, wouldn't this one be more suitable? (it's electric, so you can steadily set it any temp you like from 0 to 500°C). I guess you thought about it, and maybe as you said above you have some space problems  :-\.
Keep us updated  :)

What you say is true, but... I *think* the Roccbox will be able to do it well enough.  From what I can gather from watching reviews when the gas is turned all the way down the temp's around 600-650f. And according to Gozney using briquettes in the wood attachment gives you low and slow temps.  Though in the BBQ world that would mean 225-250f. The Effeuno, or Warring would both be great for NYs, but not so much for Neopolitians.  I suspect the Roccbox will let me down some here, but I understand gas ovens are really meant for 60-90 second bakes.  But it might surprise me,  I do know it can't be any worse at lower temps than my Koda, and I still managed maybe 100 NY bakes with it. The Roccbox was pretty much an impulse buy, as was the Ooni table and the cute little Barbie doll sized Gozney turning peel.    And if it sucks for lower temps, I can just charge the Breville and find room for it somewhere.


 

Offline Quebert

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Re: Help me pick a new oven
« Reply #8 on: October 09, 2021, 04:32:52 PM »
*UPDATE*

Apparently the email I got from UPS yesterday saying the Roccbox and accessories would be delivered today was not accurate. It hasn't even been picked up yet.  I know 2 days ago my other pizza oven wasn't working and the last thing I was thinking about was pizza. But since I ordered this it's been consuming me. Now I have to wait, maybe almost a WEEK, how the heck am I suppose to last that long??

#1STWORLDPROBLEMS

I make light of things, but really being an American I'm so lucky. Imagine a place where the worst thing that happens to you all week is your pizza oven isn't going to get delivered when they told you it would. We're so spoiled, but on a bad note sometimes not much at all can ruin your day and make you feel like you might not be able to make it lol. 

I have food to eat every day, I have shelter, I have lots of cool toys, and I'm able to order stuff off the internet and have it delivered to my home, sometimes the same damn day.

Offline 02ebz06

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Re: Help me pick a new oven
« Reply #9 on: October 09, 2021, 04:35:16 PM »
Lately I have had a lot of screwed up tracking info, from USPS and UPS.
Bruce here... My cooking toys --> FGM 800-B Pizza Oven, Pellet Grill, Pellet Smoker, Propane Griddle, Propane Grill

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Offline parallei

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Re: Help me pick a new oven
« Reply #10 on: October 09, 2021, 05:54:09 PM »
*UPDATE*

#1STWORLDPROBLEMS

I make light of things, but really being an American I'm so lucky. Imagine a place where the worst thing that happens to you all week is your pizza oven isn't going to get delivered when they told you it would. We're so spoiled, but on a bad note sometimes not much at all can ruin your day and make you feel like you might not be able to make it lol. 

I have food to eat every day, I have shelter, I have lots of cool toys, and I'm able to order stuff off the internet and have it delivered to my home, sometimes the same damn day.

I like your perspective. Being a "boomer", I've given up on trying to explain to younger folks being overseas in the than Army and only being able to send letters!

Offline Pizza_Not_War

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Re: Help me pick a new oven
« Reply #11 on: October 09, 2021, 06:06:39 PM »
I like your perspective. Being a "boomer", I've given up on trying to explain to younger folks being overseas in the than Army and only being able to send letters!
What, your iPhone was broken?

Offline parallei

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Re: Help me pick a new oven
« Reply #12 on: October 09, 2021, 06:12:37 PM »

Offline Quebert

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Re: Help me pick a new oven
« Reply #13 on: October 13, 2021, 05:33:00 PM »
#1STWORLDPROBLEMS

I didn't know Gozney changed the color of the green Roccbox from a neon  to olive, it doesn't look nearly as cool IMHO.  I'm sure a lot of people like the more subtle green better but I wish I had gotten the old bright one :(

On that note, I have a new oven. And I'm already contemplating pre-ordering a Karu 16. William Sonoma claims it would arive around Nov 10th if I pre-ordered today.

Offline Quebert

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Re: Help me pick a new oven
« Reply #14 on: October 13, 2021, 10:19:45 PM »
I was playing with the Gozney turning peel, it's adorable, but. $65 for this?  It's literally about the same size as my BBQ spatula. I get there's always a premium with a hipster-inspired brand like Gozney.  But even $35 would be pricey for this. I can't believe this costs $65 lol. It is a perfect size, the other peel I had my eye on has a 40 inch handle + the size of the head.  Standing 4.5 feet away from a tiny oven to turn a pizza would probably be difficult and look rediculous lol.

I still can't believe this costs $65. I mean I did buy it so I guess I can believe it, but until I saw it in person I didn't know I was getting the equivalent of a pizza spatula.
 

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Offline ToniPizza

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Re: Help me pick a new oven
« Reply #15 on: October 14, 2021, 11:28:58 AM »
They didn't have the turning peel when I bought roccbox so I bought it from amazon for 20€. Saved me some money.

Offline Quebert

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Re: Help me pick a new oven
« Reply #16 on: October 14, 2021, 02:35:05 PM »
They didn't have the turning peel when I bought roccbox so I bought it from amazon for 20€. Saved me some money.

Is it one of those no-name brand ones from China?  That's what I should have ordered lol.  Also found it interesting that I ordered 4 things from Gozney (oven, turning peel, bench scraper, dough scraper thingy)  and they shipped 4 different packages.  I get the oven's huge and ships by itself, but every other company I've ever ordered from would have put the 3 small things in 1 box.

No matter how ridiculous I look using it, I still might ordered a legit turning peel with like a 5 foot handle so I can feel like I'm an authentic pizzaiolo.

Offline Bill/SFNM

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Re: Help me pick a new oven
« Reply #17 on: October 14, 2021, 02:38:46 PM »
No matter how ridiculous I look using it, I still might ordered a legit turning peel with like a 5 foot handle so I can feel like I'm an authentic pizzaiolo.

I have cut down the handle of every peel I have so that I can use it effectively in the close quarters of my ODK.

Offline Quebert

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Re: Help me pick a new oven
« Reply #18 on: October 14, 2021, 02:47:16 PM »
I have cut down the handle of every peel I have so that I can use it effectively in the close quarters of my ODK.

Hummm, well this peel has like a foot long handle I doubt you'd cut it down. I get the size is about perfect for this small oven, but it... looks so dinky.  When I watch YT videos of the pizza guys in Italy they have a peel that's the size of an Olympic javelin.  But I understand a lot of them are working with super ginormous ovens that can bake 8-10 pizzas at once.  Although if I angeled my Roccbox right, with a peel like that I could learn to turn the pizza without even having to go outside lol.

Offline DoouBall

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Re: Help me pick a new oven
« Reply #19 on: October 16, 2021, 05:53:50 PM »
FWIW, I haven't been too pleased with the second-generation Breville for Neapolitan. The Carbon bakes better Neapolitan, IMO. And Chau has been turning out some really great NYC pizzas in his Carbon. I've eaten several, and they were all first-rate. I still use the Breville for pan pizzas and roasted vegetables due to the precise top and bottom temp controls, but Carbon is my go-to for Neapolitan. And it is so easy to use, I hardly ever fire up the WFO anymore.

Bill, just curious if you're ever tried the Roccbox, and how do you feel the Carbon Oven compares to Roccbox? Thanks!
Alex

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