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Author Topic: 24 hour naturally leavened pizza dough (Napoletana-ish))  (Read 1671 times)

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Offline TXCraig1

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Re: 24 hour naturally leavened pizza dough (Napoletana-ish))
« Reply #20 on: December 29, 2022, 07:16:18 AM »
so can you briefly summarize your findings and your conclusion from the end of that experiment?

That an ice chest with a block of ice can hold a suitable consistent temperature over a long period of time (changing the ice blocks as needed).
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Offline Yael

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Re: 24 hour naturally leavened pizza dough (Napoletana-ish))
« Reply #21 on: December 31, 2022, 10:34:29 PM »
I don't totally agree.

A good sauce & cheese can compensate for a "subpar crust", but a good crust cannot compensate for bad cheese & sauce.  I say that the cheese & sauce are a degree* more important than the crust when considering the overall* pizza.  (not saying crust doesn't carry any importance).


*emphasis on "a degree" and "overall".  So don't bash me, guys  ;D

That was exactly my point  :) Most of people will enjoy the cheese or the ham you put on the pizza. I think that what, 98%? of the world's pizza eaters think like that, Italy *maybe* not included.

I'm from Jersey in Florida, where a huge population is from up north, the crust is my customers' main concern.  I am a professional pizza maker with 10+ years experience, it's simply this dough recipe I need to make work, so I am trying to eliminate consistency issues, and I'm aware of seasonal temp differences, trying to key that in as well.  I am getting alot closer to having something fairly consistent.  Also I probably wont use these starters but instead use the yeast water itself in the recipe which has worked in the past, in MINISCULE amounts, say 5-10g yeast water to 600g water per kg flour.  But thank you for the advance and that is definitely a fallback!

Ok, good to know! Sometimes in the forum we don't know much about the members, some have a huge experience, some don't; I always reply like if they don't (so anybody who reads it can understand). BTW, I might also be wrong so other points of view are always welcome ^^
« Last Edit: December 31, 2022, 10:44:43 PM by Yael »
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Offline EvanFitz96

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Re: 24 hour naturally leavened pizza dough (Napoletana-ish))
« Reply #22 on: January 01, 2023, 01:29:27 AM »
So the starters were very active and great, as was the yeast water in a direct dough method.

The 24 hour dough was great, but after 6-9 additional hours balls overproofing became a thing.

I believe balling 1/3 of the dough 2 hours before the event is primes, then balling the second 1/3 of the dough halfway (earlier?) through use of the first third will bring similar results, and balling the final 1/3 of third after using half of the second 1/3 of the dough will bring on consistent results through a 9 hour event.  Upon testing, the first doughball made just as great of a pizza as the last.

The yeast water used was 40g raisins and 800g filtered water.  Twice a day i would open the jar, close it, and shake it.  After 5 days, it was extremely foamy and active.  Instead of making a starter, i made a 'slurry' that only fermented 20-30 min while the remainder of the water and flour autolysed.

Recipe:

500g flour total (400g 00, 100g bread flour)
300g water total (250g filtered, 50g yeast water)
10g salt

Method:

Make 'slurry' using 50g bread flour and 50g yeast water, set aside.

Make autolyse with 400g 00 flour and 50g bread flour, along with 250g water, incorporate and knead slightly (leave no dry flour), let sit 20 min

Add 'slurry' on top in the middle and do a set of stretch and folds to incapsulate the slurry, let sit 10 min

Add salt and do another set of stretch and folds to incapsulate the salt, let sit 10 minutes

Do a final set of stretch and folds, let sit 10 minutes

Knead for 30sec-2min and smooth into ball for bulk fermentation (first rise), let sit covered 12 hours rt

Remove from bowl and smooth into ball again, try to be gentle, not looking for a complete degas, let sit 10 hours

Ball, let sit 2 hours, make pizza.


Offline EvanFitz96

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Re: 24 hour naturally leavened pizza dough (Napoletana-ish))
« Reply #23 on: January 01, 2023, 03:33:38 PM »
Slurry method worked just as well with 10g bread flour and 10g yeast water, and same with 25g bread flour and 25g yeast water.  Just include yeast water in your total water for the recipe, and I like to have the total bread flour be 20%.

So far everything is successful, but keeping bulks longer (besides balls used when first opening the popup, say 60 out of 180, get through 30, ball the next 60, at dough #90 ball the last 60 and nothing will be overproofed or over-relaxed, longer bulks helps stop balls from overproofing, this is alot easier than I anticipated.

All doughs are very airy and tasty!

Offline EvanFitz96

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Re: 24 hour naturally leavened pizza dough (Napoletana-ish))
« Reply #24 on: January 01, 2023, 11:02:35 PM »
Some of the pizzas, 24 hour RT naturally leavened.
« Last Edit: January 04, 2023, 10:00:45 AM by Pete-zza »

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Offline EvanFitz96

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Re: 24 hour naturally leavened pizza dough (Napoletana-ish))
« Reply #25 on: January 01, 2023, 11:04:55 PM »
Posted a duplicate, heres some more pics

Offline TXCraig1

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Re: 24 hour naturally leavened pizza dough (Napoletana-ish))
« Reply #26 on: January 02, 2023, 10:52:39 AM »
Some of the pizzas, 24 hour RT naturally leavened.

Nice!
"We make great pizza, with sourdough when we can, baker's yeast when we must, but always great pizza."  
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Offline EvanFitz96

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Offline Andrew t

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Re: 24 hour naturally leavened pizza dough (Napoletana-ish))
« Reply #28 on: January 02, 2023, 11:13:20 PM »
the dough is what we prefer to improve, but the truth is that our customers don't care that much, so instead of seeking for a 10/10 dough, just keep on with the 8/10 one we already have, and use this energy to do something else, business-wise. I've been there, and these are the pieces of advice I've been given. IMHO they are correct, so I share them here too!  :chef:

This is very true. I especially feel like a solid 8/10 that I can execute relaibly is what I'm always after.

When I'm testing or tweaking formulas it's pretty easy to make one 10/10 pizza. But what I strive for is a formula and process that can delivery high percentage results over the whole service period day in and day out.

I think I and a lot of others on here sometimes are overly focused on formula and underestimate the importance of everything between the mix and oven. 

Offline EvanFitz96

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Re: 24 hour naturally leavened pizza dough (Napoletana-ish))
« Reply #29 on: January 03, 2023, 09:23:48 PM »
Since this thread was based on experimentation, and the experiments worked, I made a new one that pretty much put it all into a recipe/procedure thread to share with you guys.
Hope the duplicate-ish post doesn't break any rules, as I respect this forum to the fullest and everyone involved.

Link to new, more streamlined thread:

https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=77896.0

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Offline EvanFitz96

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Re: 24 hour naturally leavened pizza dough (Napoletana-ish))
« Reply #30 on: January 18, 2023, 11:02:06 PM »
This is very true. I especially feel like a solid 8/10 that I can execute relaibly is what I'm always after.

When I'm testing or tweaking formulas it's pretty easy to make one 10/10 pizza. But what I strive for is a formula and process that can delivery high percentage results over the whole service period day in and day out.

I think I and a lot of others on here sometimes are overly focused on formula and underestimate the importance of everything between the mix and oven.

Great response, using a yeast water recipe I had, I doubled the yeast quantity (yeast water) to make sure it was fully fermented, and it was.  Last 3 out of the 30 I did were immaculately overproofed, but with the exlerience I have I knew to be gentle and made fine pizzas.  When I do 100-200 pizzas I need something that will be fermented but not overproof being in the sun 6 hours, in Florida of course, lol.  We are gonna quality test 2% vs 2.5% vs 3% yeast water (recipe 40g fresh honeycrisp apple, 800 mL filtered water) and see if we can get that consistent 8/10 dough as you say

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