Pizza Making Forum

Pizza Making => American Style => Topic started by: shmigga on March 12, 2014, 05:18:31 PM

Title: Trying to duplicate Buffalo, NY style pizza
Post by: shmigga on March 12, 2014, 05:18:31 PM
I recently relocated to Atlanta and have been really missing good pizza.  All they have down here are chains and NY style pizzerias.  Many people may know of Buffalo for their Chicken Wings, but their Pizza is also just as good.  I have attached some images of pizza from different Buffalo, NY area pizzerias. Below are where these beautiful pizza's came from.

Pasquale's:
Picasso's
Blasdel Pizza
Bocce Pizza
Great Lakes Pizza

It may be hard to tell from the pictures, but a typical Buffalo style pizza is 17-18" for a large and around .5-.6 inches thick.  It's not as thin as NY style and not as thick as a Sicilian pizza.  From what I've gathered so far, Buffalo pizzeria's typically use Sorrento 100% whole milk mozzarella cheese and either Margherita or Ezzo Supreme Special Pepperoni.  If you look at the Ezzo website, you will see that the Supreme Special pepperoni was specifically made for Buffalo.  http://ezzo.com/products.html (http://ezzo.com/products.html)  My local grocery stores carry Sorrento branded cheeses but I have not been able to find Margherita pepperoni and Ezzo products are not sold in retail stores.  I've contacted Ezzo about trying to get some of their pepperoni and it doesn't sound like I am going to be able to.

What I mostly need help with is the dough.  I have tried a few recipes on here and they turned out okay.  I think my best bet might be to try and modify Jerry Mac's dough recipe to make my pizza thicker.  If anyone has any thoughts or suggestions, that would be very helpful!

Thanks,
Chris
Title: Re: Trying to duplicate Buffalo, NY style pizza
Post by: scupbucket on March 13, 2014, 10:56:53 PM
Hi Chris,

Don't have an exact recipe (I'm still trying to get remotely close to a NY style pie) but maybe I can help describe the Buffalo style pizza so that a few others might jump in and take over. I'm in East Aurora... just 5 minutes up the hill from the EA Pasquale's, one of my all-time favorites so your pic was making me drool all over the place. Being a Cleveland native, I was blown away by pizza in Buffalo. There's been a lot of great choices over the last 10 years... :) I've had all but Great Lakes... I also dig Capelli's, Casa de Pizza, Del Aureos, Joey V's etc. It's like pizza heaven here! HEAVY on the cheese.

What I've noticed is that a lot of these style pizzas have the thickness you describe but also a very chewy sweet crust - great oven spring but a more dense crust. Maybe they're using more sugar and a ton more oil? Almost like a cross between a NY style and pan pizza. The crusts are quite brown but not burnt in any way and it looks as though they're first baked in a pan and then decked too because of the almost molded looking bottom crust. All the best to you down South... friggin freezing and buried to our armpits again in snow up here. Pizza helps. :)

Scup
Title: Re: Trying to duplicate Buffalo, NY style pizza
Post by: Craigbec on March 24, 2014, 06:45:11 PM
I think this is what they serve for breakfast in Heaven.
Title: Re: Trying to duplicate Buffalo, NY style pizza
Post by: shmigga on March 24, 2014, 10:06:10 PM
Scup,

Thanks for the help trying to explain what Buffalo pizza is like.  Now that I think about it, yes Buffalo style pizzas are heavy on the cheese.  You are also correct when you say that the pizzas are typically baked in a pan then decked for the last few minutes.  If you watch the following youtube video of Pizza Junction on Diners Drive-ins, and Dives, you will get a good idea of how most Buffalo pizzerias bake their pizza.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qI0hY9IUIWc (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qI0hY9IUIWc)

I heard that the winter has been pretty bad up there this year.  I guess I picked a good time to move!  I still miss the Pizza and Wings...and of course Time Hortons!

Chris
Title: Re: Trying to duplicate Buffalo, NY style pizza
Post by: scupbucket on March 25, 2014, 11:01:01 AM
*sigh* I miss PJ's. Such good pizza and those pies were STACKED! My gf is from NT so when she saw this she almost criedÖ it was that good!

Over the last 2 weeks Iíve been taking a break from NYC style pie attempts to try and replicate some local joints after seeing your pics. Iíve come up with something close to Capelliís but Iím still trying to get the chewy crust texture. For the recipe below, maybe try and drop hydration to 60%. The last few attempts have tasted great but not as dense as Iíd likeÖ much too springy. Plus the TF might be just a tad too thick. Try .11 instead of .12. Iím also using a screen in conjunction with steelÖ Iíll give an oiled pan a shot and maybe deck the pie for a minute or soÖ

I have a pic of my most recent attempt in reply #509 here:  http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=26286.500 (http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=26286.500)

Flour (100%):    1220 g  |  43.03 oz | 2.69 lbs  All Trumps
Water (62%):    756.4 g  |  26.68 oz | 1.67 lbs 
IDY (.2%):    2.44 g | 0.09 oz | 0.01 lbs | 0.81 tsp | 0.27 tbsp 
Salt (2%):    24.4 g | 0.86 oz | 0.05 lbs | 7.18 tsp | 2.39 tbsp 
Oil (2%):    24.4 g | 0.86 oz | 0.05 lbs | 5.42 tsp | 1.81 tbsp 
Sugar (2%):    24.4 g | 0.86 oz | 0.05 lbs | 6.12 tsp | 2.04 tbsp 
Total (168.2%):   2052.04 g | 72.38 oz | 4.52 lbs | TF = 0.12
Single Ball:   684.01 g | 24.13 oz | 1.51 lbs

I did 48 hour cold ferments but it seemed like the dough was ready to bake after 24... if you ever try this out, let me know what you think and if I'm even remotely in the ballpark with this.


Still snowing here but itís been a bit warmer so everybodyís out wearing t-shirts in 40 degree weather. Heat wave I tell yaÖ

Title: Re: Trying to duplicate Buffalo, NY style pizza
Post by: sachmo on April 01, 2014, 02:37:00 PM
I recently relocated to Atlanta and have been really missing good pizza.  All they have down here are chains and NY style pizzerias.  Many people may know of Buffalo for their Chicken Wings, but their Pizza is also just as good.  I have attached some images of pizza from different Buffalo, NY area pizzerias. Below are where these beautiful pizza's came from.

Pasquale's:
Picasso's
Blasdel Pizza
Bocce Pizza
Great Lakes Pizza

It may be hard to tell from the pictures, but a typical Buffalo style pizza is 17-18" for a large and around .5-.6 inches thick.  It's not as thin as NY style and not as thick as a Sicilian pizza.  From what I've gathered so far, Buffalo pizzeria's typically use Sorrento 100% whole milk mozzarella cheese and either Margherita or Ezzo Supreme Special Pepperoni.  If you look at the Ezzo website, you will see that the Supreme Special pepperoni was specifically made for Buffalo.  http://ezzo.com/products.html (http://ezzo.com/products.html)  My local grocery stores carry Sorrento branded cheeses but I have not been able to find Margherita pepperoni and Ezzo products are not sold in retail stores.  I've contacted Ezzo about trying to get some of their pepperoni and it doesn't sound like I am going to be able to.

What I mostly need help with is the dough.  I have tried a few recipes on here and they turned out okay.  I think my best bet might be to try and modify Jerry Mac's dough recipe to make my pizza thicker.  If anyone has any thoughts or suggestions, that would be very helpful!

Thanks,
Chris

I also live in the Buffalo area and I also would like a recipe close to Bocce,Picasso,Imperial or Blasdell, That is why I came to this site looking for that type of dough. If anyone find something close please post. I've also had Pizza Junction and that was good also.I heard it opened back up under a different name will post if I find out the new name
Title: Re: Trying to duplicate Buffalo, NY style pizza
Post by: shmigga on September 22, 2014, 10:37:14 AM
Here is my latest attempt.  It turned out pretty good but the dough was a little too thick.  I used the dough recipe posted at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=11031.0 (http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=11031.0).  I made a triple batch and cut it in half to make one 16" pizza.  The dough was probably enough for an 18".  I created my own sauce using San Marzano tomatoes and used Margherita brand pepperoni and Sorrento whole milk mozzarella cheese.  It probably would have been perfect if I used a little less dough.

Title: Re: Trying to duplicate Buffalo, NY style pizza
Post by: shmigga on September 22, 2014, 10:38:20 AM
Forgot to mention, I preheated the oven to 500 degrees. Cooked the pizza on a pan for 11 minutes, then on the stone for 3 minutes.  This is typically how its done in Buffalo.
Title: Re: Trying to duplicate Buffalo, NY style pizza
Post by: norma427 on September 22, 2014, 09:06:56 PM
shmigga,

Your pizza looks very good!

Norma
Title: Re: Trying to duplicate Buffalo, NY style pizza
Post by: shmigga on January 09, 2015, 04:08:59 PM
shmigga,

Your pizza looks very good!

Norma

Thank you!
Title: Re: Trying to duplicate Buffalo, NY style pizza
Post by: shmigga on January 09, 2015, 04:40:04 PM
Here are some pics from my latest attempt...

So far this is my best pie yet.  I would say that it is very close to something that you would find in Buffalo.  I have been doing some research, and have determined that Buffalo area pizzerias use a high gluten flour.  As of today, I have only tried to duplicate a pie using King Arthur Bread Flour.  I have some All Trumps on order and I am going to give that a shot.  The KABF gave the crust more of a bread like texture.  The pizzas sold in Buffalo are thicker, but they are fluffy and the crust seems very flexible if that makes any sense.

I've found the following video about Mister Pizza.  It's kind of a strange video, but gives you an idea of what the dough is supposed to look like.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tNYZusP4myk

I have been using Margherita pepperoni, but I have also determined that there is a special type of Margherita pepperoni that is supposed to cup and crisp (like Ezzo SS).  Unfortunately, the only place that I know of that carries this pepperoni is Latina Foods (http://www.latinafoodservice.com/).  For those that don't know, Latina Foods is a local food supply company in Buffalo.

In case anyone wants to know, here is the procedure that I used to make this pizza:

1.) Used the dough recipe found here: http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,11031.msg108177.html#msg108177 (http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,11031.msg108177.html#msg108177)

This makes one ball for 16" Pie

Flour (100%):    424.57 g  |  14.98 oz | 0.94 lbs (KABF)
Water (58%):    246.25 g  |  8.69 oz | 0.54 lbs
ADY (0.4%):    1.7 g | 0.06 oz | 0 lbs | 0.45 tsp | 0.15 tbsp
Salt (1.50%):    6.37 g | 0.22 oz | 0.01 lbs | 1.87 tsp | 0.62 tbsp
Vegetable (Soybean) Oil (7.3%):    30.99 g | 1.09 oz | 0.07 lbs | 6.82 tsp | 2.27 tbsp
Sugar (4.2%):    17.83 g | 0.63 oz | 0.04 lbs | 4.47 tsp | 1.49 tbsp
Total (171.4%):   727.71 g | 25.67 oz | 1.6 lbs | TF = 0.1452556

2.) Let the dough rise in the fridge for 2 days
3.) Took the dough out of the fridge and let it sit for an hour.  Spread the dough out on a Crisco greased 16" pan and let it sit for another 45 mins.  While this was going on, I preheated my oven to 525 degrees (for about an hour).
4.) Placed the toppings on the dough (sauce, parmesan cheese, 100% whole milk sorrento cheese, Margherita pepperoni).
5.) Lowered the oven temp to 500 degrees and cooked the pizza for 14 minutes.
6.) Removed the pizza from the pan and placed it directly on the stone for 1 minute.
7.) Ate the pizza

Hope this helps everyone!

Title: Re: Trying to duplicate Buffalo, NY style pizza
Post by: shmigga on January 09, 2015, 04:45:06 PM
In case anyone needs a reminder, I'm trying to make something similar to this...

From Johnny's Pizza (http://www.johnnyspizzeria.net/)

Title: Re: Trying to duplicate Buffalo, NY style pizza
Post by: shmigga on January 10, 2015, 11:00:29 AM
*sigh* I miss PJ's. Such good pizza and those pies were STACKED! My gf is from NT so when she saw this she almost criedÖ it was that good!

Over the last 2 weeks Iíve been taking a break from NYC style pie attempts to try and replicate some local joints after seeing your pics. Iíve come up with something close to Capelliís but Iím still trying to get the chewy crust texture. For the recipe below, maybe try and drop hydration to 60%. The last few attempts have tasted great but not as dense as Iíd likeÖ much too springy. Plus the TF might be just a tad too thick. Try .11 instead of .12. Iím also using a screen in conjunction with steelÖ Iíll give an oiled pan a shot and maybe deck the pie for a minute or soÖ

I have a pic of my most recent attempt in reply #509 here:  http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=26286.500 (http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=26286.500)

Flour (100%):    1220 g  |  43.03 oz | 2.69 lbs  All Trumps
Water (62%):    756.4 g  |  26.68 oz | 1.67 lbs 
IDY (.2%):    2.44 g | 0.09 oz | 0.01 lbs | 0.81 tsp | 0.27 tbsp 
Salt (2%):    24.4 g | 0.86 oz | 0.05 lbs | 7.18 tsp | 2.39 tbsp 
Oil (2%):    24.4 g | 0.86 oz | 0.05 lbs | 5.42 tsp | 1.81 tbsp 
Sugar (2%):    24.4 g | 0.86 oz | 0.05 lbs | 6.12 tsp | 2.04 tbsp 
Total (168.2%):   2052.04 g | 72.38 oz | 4.52 lbs | TF = 0.12
Single Ball:   684.01 g | 24.13 oz | 1.51 lbs

I did 48 hour cold ferments but it seemed like the dough was ready to bake after 24... if you ever try this out, let me know what you think and if I'm even remotely in the ballpark with this.


Still snowing here but itís been a bit warmer so everybodyís out wearing t-shirts in 40 degree weather. Heat wave I tell yaÖ

Scup,

Does your recipe make two 16" balls?  I ask because I've noticed that you are using more than twice as much flour as I am.

Thanks,
Chris
Title: Re: Trying to duplicate Buffalo, NY style pizza
Post by: shmigga on February 08, 2015, 10:02:36 PM
I thought I finally had this figured out until disaster struck.  I recently purchased some all trumps flour and have been using the recipe I posted above with no change (other than the flour).  The first two pics below are of two different pies that I made that came out pretty much perfect.   The crust was very similar to a pizza you would get in Buffalo.  The last 4 pizzas that I made all suffered from an issue where the dough under the toppings didn't rise and cook properly while in the oven.  You can kind of see this in the third pic.  Basically it was just mush under the cheese. I have no idea what happened as I used the same recipes and cooked the pizzas the exact same way.  Does anyone have any thoughts as to why this would happen?  The only thing that I can think of is that I tried to make a more defined crust.  BTW the crust was excellent (4th pic)...it's just too bad the pizza was really inedible.
Title: Re: Trying to duplicate Buffalo, NY style pizza
Post by: vtsteve on February 08, 2015, 11:42:45 PM
I think you just used up all the heat that was stored in your stone on the first two pizzas... there wasn't enough energy left to cook the remaining pies. Do you have an IR thermometer? You may need to let the stone recharge every couple of pies. If you really need to bang out 6 pies in quick succession, try a layer of firebrick instead, and a 2-3 hour preheat.
Title: Re: Trying to duplicate Buffalo, NY style pizza
Post by: shmigga on February 09, 2015, 09:53:01 AM
Sorry I should have been more clear in my post.  The first two successful pizzas were cooked on two different days in two different ovens.  Three of the unsuccessful pies were cooked on one day in the same oven and the last unsuccessful pie was cooked on a different day in a different oven.  Sorry if this is confusing.  The pizza is only cooked on the stone for the last 30-60 seconds just to brown up the bottom of the pie.  The first 12-14 minutes its cooked on the pan.
Title: Re: Trying to duplicate Buffalo, NY style pizza
Post by: vtsteve on February 09, 2015, 10:03:47 AM
Doing a road show? Do you have an IR - you should, esp. if you're visiting unfamiliar ovens. Are you using the same pans all the time? A bright, shiny pan will won't absorb  as much heat as a dull/seasoned pan.
Title: Re: Trying to duplicate Buffalo, NY style pizza
Post by: shmigga on February 09, 2015, 12:30:48 PM
Unfortunately the three failed pizzas were on super bowl Sunday.  Yes I have an ir thermometer. The stone temp is usually around 435 when the pies go in.  I have used the same exact pan for both the good and bad pizzas. Thanks.
Title: Re: Trying to duplicate Buffalo, NY style pizza
Post by: shmigga on February 09, 2015, 12:34:47 PM
Here is some other info...I used a lower oven rack on two of the four failed pizzas. For the other two, the rack was in the middle which is where it was for the two successful pies.  I thought using the lower rack was causing this the dough not to cook properly so I moved it up.
Title: Re: Trying to duplicate Buffalo, NY style pizza
Post by: vtsteve on February 09, 2015, 02:00:31 PM
Your stone is 435 after an hour of preheat at 525 (or 500)? This is in the 'good' oven?
Title: Re: Trying to duplicate Buffalo, NY style pizza
Post by: shmigga on February 09, 2015, 02:15:47 PM
Yeah its 435 after an hour pre heat at 500.  Both ovens were able to produce good pies and both ovens were also able to produce bad ones too.
Title: Re: Trying to duplicate Buffalo, NY style pizza
Post by: eagon06 on February 26, 2015, 12:43:00 PM
This makes one ball for 16" Pie

Flour (100%):    424.57 g  |  14.98 oz | 0.94 lbs (KABF)
Water (58%):    246.25 g  |  8.69 oz | 0.54 lbs
ADY (0.4%):    1.7 g | 0.06 oz | 0 lbs | 0.45 tsp | 0.15 tbsp
Salt (1.50%):    6.37 g | 0.22 oz | 0.01 lbs | 1.87 tsp | 0.62 tbsp
Vegetable (Soybean) Oil (7.3%):    30.99 g | 1.09 oz | 0.07 lbs | 6.82 tsp | 2.27 tbsp
Sugar (4.2%):    17.83 g | 0.63 oz | 0.04 lbs | 4.47 tsp | 1.49 tbsp
Total (171.4%):   727.71 g | 25.67 oz | 1.6 lbs | TF = 0.1452556

2.) Let the dough rise in the fridge for 2 days
3.) Took the dough out of the fridge and let it sit for an hour.  Spread the dough out on a Crisco greased 16" pan and let it sit for another 45 mins.  While this was going on, I preheated my oven to 525 degrees (for about an hour).
4.) Placed the toppings on the dough (sauce, parmesan cheese, 100% whole milk sorrento cheese, Margherita pepperoni).
5.) Lowered the oven temp to 500 degrees and cooked the pizza for 14 minutes.
6.) Removed the pizza from the pan and placed it directly on the stone for 1 minute.
7.) Ate the pizza

-----------------------------------------------------------

Can I make this using King Arthur all purpose or did you use bread flour? This looks amazing. Also, what do you think about cooking on the stone the entire time?
Title: Re: Trying to duplicate Buffalo, NY style pizza
Post by: shmigga on February 26, 2015, 12:53:07 PM
This makes one ball for 16" Pie

Flour (100%):    424.57 g  |  14.98 oz | 0.94 lbs (KABF)
Water (58%):    246.25 g  |  8.69 oz | 0.54 lbs
ADY (0.4%):    1.7 g | 0.06 oz | 0 lbs | 0.45 tsp | 0.15 tbsp
Salt (1.50%):    6.37 g | 0.22 oz | 0.01 lbs | 1.87 tsp | 0.62 tbsp
Vegetable (Soybean) Oil (7.3%):    30.99 g | 1.09 oz | 0.07 lbs | 6.82 tsp | 2.27 tbsp
Sugar (4.2%):    17.83 g | 0.63 oz | 0.04 lbs | 4.47 tsp | 1.49 tbsp
Total (171.4%):   727.71 g | 25.67 oz | 1.6 lbs | TF = 0.1452556

2.) Let the dough rise in the fridge for 2 days
3.) Took the dough out of the fridge and let it sit for an hour.  Spread the dough out on a Crisco greased 16" pan and let it sit for another 45 mins.  While this was going on, I preheated my oven to 525 degrees (for about an hour).
4.) Placed the toppings on the dough (sauce, parmesan cheese, 100% whole milk sorrento cheese, Margherita pepperoni).
5.) Lowered the oven temp to 500 degrees and cooked the pizza for 14 minutes.
6.) Removed the pizza from the pan and placed it directly on the stone for 1 minute.
7.) Ate the pizza

-----------------------------------------------------------

Can I make this using King Arthur all purpose or did you use bread flour? This looks amazing. Also, what do you think about cooking on the stone the entire time?

I'm not sure if you are trying to make an "authentic" Buffalo style pizza or not, but i'm sure you could use all purpose flour.  If you do the texture won't be as chewy.  I have only use king arthur bread flour and all trumps.  All trumps was the best in my opinion.  I haven't tried cooking it on the stone the whole time but you probably can.  I don't do it because the bottom of an authentic Buffalo style pizza isn't crispy.
Title: Re: Trying to duplicate Buffalo, NY style pizza
Post by: eagon06 on February 26, 2015, 01:25:18 PM
I'm not sure if you are trying to make an "authentic" Buffalo style pizza or not, but i'm sure you could use all purpose flour.  If you do the texture won't be as chewy.  I have only use king arthur bread flour and all trumps.  All trumps was the best in my opinion.  I haven't tried cooking it on the stone the whole time but you probably can.  I don't do it because the bottom of an authentic Buffalo style pizza isn't crispy.

Thanks a lot. I'm a noob so tell me if this looks right:

Take warm water (110* or so) and mix in the yeast, wait 10 min to activate. Mix flour, salt, sugar together. Add yeast water, oil, and flour mixture to ninja (I use a Ninja Pulse w/hook) and pulse it until dough ball forms. Next knead the ball (how long)? Place in oiled container, close container and place in fridge for 2 days. Then follow steps 3-7?
Thanks for helping, your pizza looks like exactly what I am going for.
Title: Re: Trying to duplicate Buffalo, NY style pizza
Post by: shmigga on February 26, 2015, 02:42:01 PM
Thanks a lot. I'm a noob so tell me if this looks right:

Take warm water (110* or so) and mix in the yeast, wait 10 min to activate. Mix flour, salt, sugar together. Add yeast water, oil, and flour mixture to ninja (I use a Ninja Pulse w/hook) and pulse it until dough ball forms. Next knead the ball (how long)? Place in oiled container, close container and place in fridge for 2 days. Then follow steps 3-7?
Thanks for helping, your pizza looks like exactly what I am going for.

This is the way that I do it (which might not be right).  Put all dry ingredients into the mixing bowl (including yeast).  Slowly add the 110* water and oil and mix on speed 2(on kitchen aid) for 3 minutes.  Let it rest for 5 minutes. Mix on speed 2 for another 3 minutes.  If everything looks good, I take it out and hand kneed for 30s to a minute.  Form it into a ball and proof in a warm place for an hour.  My dough never really looks smooth after it's done mixing.

If you you use instant yeast, you don't have to proof it.  I believe you only need to proof active dry yeast.  I'm sure you could use active dry yeast with this recipe, but I've never tried it.  I haven't made pizza in a while because I was having a few issues with the last few pizzas cooking right.  If you want to make sure you pizza dough is cooked, you could par back it in your oven for 5-8 minutes.  You could probably cook the dough after a day if you are anxious enough.  I always brush olive oil on my crust before putting it in the oven...
Title: Re: Trying to duplicate Buffalo, NY style pizza
Post by: eagon06 on February 26, 2015, 06:00:41 PM
Well I just tried it using AP flour, ADY, and my ninja. Came out to 724g, going to make it tomorrow on the stone. Hope it works!
Title: Re: Trying to duplicate Buffalo, NY style pizza
Post by: eagon06 on March 01, 2015, 01:28:44 PM
Pizza turned out pretty well. I pulled it out after 24 hours. I had punched it down once previously and after I pulled it out from fridge after 24 hours (dough had completely risen to top of container in fridge) I punched it down once more, only this time it didn't rise back up? I formed it to around 14" and baked it for 5 min in a pan. Refrigerated the crust for a few hours due to time and came home and finisheud it off on the stone. It had a good crunch with solid chew still which was what I wanted. I apologize for th crappy pic, I was quite a bit inebriated upon finishing it off.
Title: Re: Trying to duplicate Buffalo, NY style pizza
Post by: AlexE on March 07, 2015, 12:36:24 PM
This makes one ball for 16" Pie

Flour (100%):    424.57 g  |  14.98 oz | 0.94 lbs (KABF)
Water (58%):    246.25 g  |  8.69 oz | 0.54 lbs
ADY (0.4%):    1.7 g | 0.06 oz | 0 lbs | 0.45 tsp | 0.15 tbsp
Salt (1.50%):    6.37 g | 0.22 oz | 0.01 lbs | 1.87 tsp | 0.62 tbsp
Vegetable (Soybean) Oil (7.3%):    30.99 g | 1.09 oz | 0.07 lbs | 6.82 tsp | 2.27 tbsp
Sugar (4.2%):    17.83 g | 0.63 oz | 0.04 lbs | 4.47 tsp | 1.49 tbsp
Total (171.4%):   727.71 g | 25.67 oz | 1.6 lbs | TF = 0.1452556

2.) Let the dough rise in the fridge for 2 days
3.) Took the dough out of the fridge and let it sit for an hour.  Spread the dough out on a Crisco greased 16" pan and let it sit for another 45 mins.  While this was going on, I preheated my oven to 525 degrees (for about an hour).
4.) Placed the toppings on the dough (sauce, parmesan cheese, 100% whole milk sorrento cheese, Margherita pepperoni).
5.) Lowered the oven temp to 500 degrees and cooked the pizza for 14 minutes.
6.) Removed the pizza from the pan and placed it directly on the stone for 1 minute.
7.) Ate the pizza

-----------------------------------------------------------

Can I make this using King Arthur all purpose or did you use bread flour? This looks amazing. Also, what do you think about cooking on the stone the entire time?
I used this recipe a couple days ago and I am gonna be making a 16" tonight along w/ chicken wings. I will report back with my results.

I usually make lehmann thin crust but my gf likes pizza like from around this area (Buffalo) so we're giving this a try.
Title: Re: Trying to duplicate Buffalo, NY style pizza
Post by: AlexE on March 09, 2015, 07:22:04 PM
Came out really good. My girlfriend said it's the best crust that I've made so far. I did not use a pizza stone because I need to replace mine, but it still came out great.
Title: Re: Trying to duplicate Buffalo, NY style pizza
Post by: hockman4357 on March 10, 2015, 05:44:24 PM
What would be the ADY to IDY gram conversion?  Thinking about giving this recipe a try.
Title: Re: Trying to duplicate Buffalo, NY style pizza
Post by: shmigga on March 11, 2015, 08:50:35 AM
What would be the ADY to IDY gram conversion?  Thinking about giving this recipe a try.

You can take a look at the following link to convert ADY to IDY... http://www.theartisan.net/convert_yeast_two.htm

Post some pics if you try this out!
Title: Re: Trying to duplicate Buffalo, NY style pizza
Post by: shmigga on March 11, 2015, 08:51:41 AM
Pizza turned out pretty well. I pulled it out after 24 hours. I had punched it down once previously and after I pulled it out from fridge after 24 hours (dough had completely risen to top of container in fridge) I punched it down once more, only this time it didn't rise back up? I formed it to around 14" and baked it for 5 min in a pan. Refrigerated the crust for a few hours due to time and came home and finisheud it off on the stone. It had a good crunch with solid chew still which was what I wanted. I apologize for th crappy pic, I was quite a bit inebriated upon finishing it off.

Looks pretty good to me!  How was the texture.  Did it seem like the dough cooked right for you?
Title: Re: Trying to duplicate Buffalo, NY style pizza
Post by: shmigga on March 11, 2015, 08:55:50 AM
Came out really good. My girlfriend said it's the best crust that I've made so far. I did not use a pizza stone because I need to replace mine, but it still came out great.

Awesome!  How did it compare to your favorite WNY pizza?
Title: Re: Trying to duplicate Buffalo, NY style pizza
Post by: JD on March 11, 2015, 09:15:08 AM
I've never had Buffalo style pizza but the pictures on this thread look really good. They remind me of the pizza place within walking distance of my old college dorm: Boston House of Pizza (BHops) in Boston. It was so good, but there may have been some outside influences at the time :angel:
Title: Re: Trying to duplicate Buffalo, NY style pizza
Post by: hockman4357 on March 14, 2015, 05:40:51 PM
Before and after shot.  Really good!!!
Title: Re: Trying to duplicate Buffalo, NY style pizza
Post by: Jon in Albany on March 14, 2015, 05:57:29 PM
I've never had Buffalo style pizza but the pictures on this thread look really good. They remind me of the pizza place within walking distance of my old college dorm: Boston House of Pizza (BHops) in Boston. It was so good, but there may have been some outside influences at the time :angel:
It's  a funny thing about Massachusetts. Every town seemed to have its own House Of Pizza. At least in the 90s. Many of them were near a traffic rotary. Seemed like most towns had those too.

I spent some time st Northeastern and I'm pretty sure there was a BHOP on Huntington Ave. There's probably more than 1. My main Boston pizza memory was a place called Cappys. Two bad slices of cheese pizza and a shot of soda for  $2.10. Still have their magnet on the fridge. Like you said, right around the corner from the dorm.

Looks good Hockman.
Title: Re: Trying to duplicate Buffalo, NY style pizza
Post by: gator24 on March 16, 2015, 02:01:09 PM
Does anyone here have a sauce recipe similar to Bocce's or Leonardi's? I'm sure there's other posts on this site somewhere but I can't find any recipes.

 I'm going to try this dough recipe listed above. The one I use now is very similar to it, the only difference is that I was told to use lard for the dough and to grease the pan. I think the main thing is to use a high gluten flour.
Title: Re: Trying to duplicate Buffalo, NY style pizza
Post by: JD on March 16, 2015, 02:14:08 PM
I spent some time st Northeastern and I'm pretty sure there was a BHOP on Huntington Ave. There's probably more than 1. My main Boston pizza memory was a place called Cappys. Two bad slices of cheese pizza and a shot of soda for  $2.10. Still have their magnet on the fridge. Like you said, right around the corner from the dorm.

Exactly the BHOP I'm talking about. I'm not sure I ever went to Cappys, but I assume it's all about the same?

Not to derail the thread any further but did you eat the pizza at Stetson West Dorm? That was actually some pretty good WFO pizza.
Title: Re: Trying to duplicate Buffalo, NY style pizza
Post by: Jon in Albany on March 16, 2015, 03:23:38 PM
Exactly the BHOP I'm talking about. I'm not sure I ever went to Cappys, but I assume it's all about the same?

Not to derail the thread any further but did you eat the pizza at Stetson West Dorm? That was actually some pretty good WFO pizza.
By my memory, BHOP was more of that Greek/bar style pizza,. Cappy's was more of a NY dollar slice.  It was on Westland Ave near the corner of Hemenway.

I never had WFO pizza in Stetson. Pretty sure there wasn't a WFO when I was there. After I left Boston, Northeastern put a lot of money into their campus. Last time I drove through, I didn't recognize much and that was probably 10-12 years ago.
Title: Re: Trying to duplicate Buffalo, NY style pizza
Post by: hockman4357 on March 21, 2015, 03:35:24 PM
This really is a tasty pizza!  I cooked this one for 12 minutes at 500 degrees on a Crisco coated pizza pan then slid it onto steel with the broiler on for 3 minutes.  Out of the oven I coated the edge with melted butter and garlic followed by a sprinkling of Parmesan.
Title: Re: Trying to duplicate Buffalo, NY style pizza
Post by: shmigga on March 23, 2015, 04:29:54 PM
Hockman,

Your pizza looks good.  I want to eat some right now :-)

Chris
Title: Re: Trying to duplicate Buffalo, NY style pizza
Post by: shmigga on March 23, 2015, 04:37:44 PM
Recently I was up in Buffalo and had the privilege of speaking to an owner of a pizzeria.  He gave me a few tips as well as some dough balls and pepperoni.  He didn't give me his recipe, but it sounded like his recipe was pretty similar to the one posted in this thread.  He gave me some PZ44 dough conditioner to try.  They use this in their recipe and it helps to brown and relax the crust.  Another tip that he gave me was to proof the dough longer after I spread it out.  They actually put their dough skins into a proofer before it gets topped and cook.  From what I saw, the dough was very thick and fluffy while it was getting topped.  Much thicker than my dough skins have been. The last thing he said was to try lowering the oven temp a little bit.

Anyways,  here is a few pics of the pie I made with his dough ball and pepperoni.  The last pic is what they actually make in their pizzeria (half pepperoni, half chicken cordon blue).

Title: Re: Trying to duplicate Buffalo, NY style pizza
Post by: gator24 on March 30, 2015, 03:29:10 PM
Not Sorrento Cheese, but overall pretty good!
Title: Re: Trying to duplicate Buffalo, NY style pizza
Post by: stimpy44 on April 05, 2015, 11:16:13 AM
In response to the request for a Bocce's style sauce - this is our recipe and I think it is the closest to Bocce-style pizza sauce that I've had outside of Buffalo:

Start with 2 cans of tomato paste - Mutti double concentrated is best.  Cook the paste for about a minute in 1-2 tsp olive oil.  Add seasonings as desired - we typically use 2-3 pinches of kosher salt, 3-4 pinches of sugar, 1 tsp of italian seasoning (Penzey's pizza seasoning is our favorite) and hot pepper flake if you like it spicy.  Thin the paste with 1 to 1.5 cups of water and then simmer until it is the desired consistency - thinner than straight tomato paste but thicker than tomato sauce.  2 cans usually makes enough sauce for two 14" pizzas plus a little left over for starting the next batch.
Title: Re: Trying to duplicate Buffalo, NY style pizza
Post by: gator24 on April 12, 2015, 11:12:11 PM
Thanks Stimpy, I'll try it!

I also tried a Beef on Weck pizza tonight. Beef on Weck is a Buffalo staple of course. I actually saw this on Drivers Dine Ins and Dives when they did a special on Pizza Junction. I kinda winged it.  It was pretty good. I should've used more roast beef!

Title: Re: Trying to duplicate Buffalo, NY style pizza
Post by: Another One Bites The Crust on April 24, 2015, 02:21:18 PM
I too have been trying to replicate buffalo Style Pizza for a long time.  Its one pizza I have not been able to peg. 

Hopefully I can help a little though. I noticed the sauce is sweeter.  There are a couple of pizzerias in the area that actually sell Sweet Sauce Pizzas, but from what I can tell they all seem to have a Sweeter Sauce.  Let me dig up a couple of the sauces I ended up with and ill post them.

For the Pepperoni

Wegmans Sells Cup and Char.  Its in little deli containers near where they sell fresh Slices.  Usually stacked with their premade crust, cheese, and sauces.   I am unsure if it is Ezzo but it is just as good. 

I also order it from www.pennmac.com

They sell whole sticks as well as pre sliced Ezzo. 


Honestly the only thing I haven't been able to get is the crust.  It eludes me for some reason.   I have tried baking in my blue steel pans and on a stone and I can't get it. 
Title: Re: Trying to duplicate Buffalo, NY style pizza
Post by: shmigga on April 24, 2015, 02:37:32 PM
I too have been trying to replicate buffalo Style Pizza for a long time.  Its one pizza I have not been able to peg. 

Hopefully I can help a little though. I noticed the sauce is sweeter.  There are a couple of pizzerias in the area that actually sell Sweet Sauce Pizzas, but from what I can tell they all seem to have a Sweeter Sauce.  Let me dig up a couple of the sauces I ended up with and ill post them.

For the Pepperoni

Wegmans Sells Cup and Char.  Its in little deli containers near where they sell fresh Slices.  Usually stacked with their premade crust, cheese, and sauces.   I am unsure if it is Ezzo but it is just as good. 

I also order it from www.pennmac.com

They sell whole sticks as well as pre sliced Ezzo. 


Honestly the only thing I haven't been able to get is the crust.  It eludes me for some reason.   I have tried baking in my blue steel pans and on a stone and I can't get it.

Looking forward to your recipes.  The pepperoni that Wegmans sells is good.  It's actually made by Battistoni meats.  I don't know if many pizzerias use it, but is def good stuff.  I think most pizzerias use Margherita cup and char or Ezzo supreme special.  Unfortunately the pepperoni that pennmac sells isn't the right stuff.  It still tastes pretty good though!  If you are in the buffalo area, you can go to Latina Foods and pick up the correct pepperoni.  Just keep in mind that you will probably need to buy 10 or 25lbs worth.  Maybe if enough people email pennmac, we can get them to carry ezzo supreeme special.

As for your dough, one thing that I can tell you is that you must use high gluten flour.  This is key.  I'm still working on my dough recipe, but I can tell you for sure that you need to use something like All Trumps to get the same chewiness that we all love.  What kind of issues are you having?


Title: Re: Trying to duplicate Buffalo, NY style pizza
Post by: Another One Bites The Crust on April 24, 2015, 02:46:40 PM
I use All Trumps, KASL, and a few others.  Its not the same.  I can make a great dough, but its just missing something that the buffalo style pizza has. 

Its hard to explain but I feel like its not greasy enough...thats not right, but its the only way I can explain it. 


Also when I talked to PennMac, they told me that the 38mm was the Ezzo SS.  I have used it and love it.  I know places to get Ezzo locally but as you said it is usually in bulk. 
Title: Re: Trying to duplicate Buffalo, NY style pizza
Post by: shmigga on April 24, 2015, 02:57:44 PM
I can tell you for sure that it isn't Ezzo SS.  I talked to someone at Ezzo and they said that the pepperoni that PennMac sells is not SS.  When I contacted PennMac about it, they said that they thought it was but that they weren't sure.  If you take a look at this page here: http://www.pennmac.com/page/513/ it actually says that it's GiAntonio.  I certainly wish that it was.  I believe Picasso's uses Ezzo SS.

As for the dough, I think I know what you mean.  Are you referring to the actually crust being somewhat moist/greasy? It's like they put something on it to make it sorta greasy but the crust is still crisp.
Title: Re: Trying to duplicate Buffalo, NY style pizza
Post by: Another One Bites The Crust on April 24, 2015, 06:05:17 PM
Thats good to know, should have dug a little deeper when i first found it.  I have considered just buying in bulk and freezing but to be honest, I like the stuff from pennmac and wegmans. 

And yes, that is exactly what I mean.  Its the one thing I can't pin down.  Its either two bread like, which i don't enjoy, or nice and crispy. Makes for a great pizza, but just isn't what I am going after.  I am closest to recreating Francos, its not my favorite but I enjoy it.

Title: Re: Trying to duplicate Buffalo, NY style pizza
Post by: pythonic on May 04, 2015, 09:48:44 AM
Great pies.  Are you just using greased aluminum cutter pans to bake them on?

Nate
Title: Re: Trying to duplicate Buffalo, NY style pizza
Post by: boalpd on May 05, 2015, 08:45:31 AM

I also tried a Beef on Weck pizza tonight.

    Gator24,

    Please give me your list of toppings. Was the salt and caraway just on the cornice or on the whole pie?

Thanks,
Phil
Title: Re: Trying to duplicate Buffalo, NY style pizza
Post by: shmigga on May 05, 2015, 09:05:02 AM
I could be wrong, but I believe he was trying to mimic the pizza in this video...

http://www.foodnetwork.com/shows/diners-drive-ins-and-dives/videos/dv800/pizza-pork-and-paprikash.0135987.html

Title: Re: Trying to duplicate Buffalo, NY style pizza
Post by: shmigga on May 05, 2015, 09:06:23 AM
Great pies.  Are you just using greased aluminum cutter pans to bake them on?

Nate

I usually bake the pizza on the aluminum pan then place the pizza on the stone for the last 30 seconds to brown the bottom of the pie  This is usually how its done in Buffalo. 
Title: Re: Trying to duplicate Buffalo, NY style pizza
Post by: gator24 on May 05, 2015, 03:14:27 PM
I could be wrong, but I believe he was trying to mimic the pizza in this video...

http://www.foodnetwork.com/shows/diners-drive-ins-and-dives/videos/dv800/pizza-pork-and-paprikash.0135987.html

That's exactly where I got it from. I just kind of winged it. I made a roux and then added milk, caraway seeds, salt, and horseradish sauce. I have the measurements at home I could get it for you if you'd like. I made it a couple nights ago again but this time without tomatoes. I actually like it better without the tomatoes. I think the key is using A LOT of horseradish!
Title: Re: Trying to duplicate Buffalo, NY style pizza
Post by: pythonic on May 07, 2015, 03:47:58 PM
I usually bake the pizza on the aluminum pan then place the pizza on the stone for the last 30 seconds to brown the bottom of the pie  This is usually how its done in Buffalo.

Very interesting.
Title: Re: Trying to duplicate Buffalo, NY style pizza
Post by: pythonic on May 07, 2015, 07:59:08 PM
Shmigga,

Are your pics from reply 13 using recipe from reply 10?  What rack(s) are you baking on?

Nate
Title: Re: Trying to duplicate Buffalo, NY style pizza
Post by: pythonic on May 08, 2015, 08:37:18 PM
Here is my attempt from dinner tonight.  Decent results.  I need to let it proof longer and dock it as well.  I also want to use about half the sugar in the dough next time around as it was a tad sweet for me.  I also want to bake about 2 minutes less.

Nate
Title: Re: Trying to duplicate Buffalo, NY style pizza
Post by: shmigga on May 11, 2015, 09:41:29 PM
Pythonic,

Your pizza looks really good.  How did it taste?  Yes my pics from reply 13 are based on the recipe in reply 10.  The only changes were that i used all trumps flour.

Chris
Title: Re: Trying to duplicate Buffalo, NY style pizza
Post by: shmigga on May 11, 2015, 10:04:14 PM
So last time I was in Buffalo, I managed to grab a few make your own pizza mixes that Just Pizza sells.  Basically it contains everything that you need except water.  One package makes enough dough for two 16 inch pizzas.  I had pretty good results and the dough was quite a bit different than the stuff I've been making.  The pizza was definitely thinner than it should have been but it the dough cooked all of the way through.  It actually tasted a lot like Just Pizza's dough.  I am not a fan of Just Pizza, but I figured I would try the mix out just to see how it tasted

I've also tried to reverse engineer their recipe.  Assuming that they use 2% sugar and 2% salt, I came up with the recipe below:

Flour (100%):    431.45 g  |  15.22 oz | 0.95 lbs
Water (52.5%):    226.51 g  |  7.99 oz | 0.5 lbs
ADY (.2%):    0.86 g | 0.03 oz | 0 lbs | 0.23 tsp | 0.08 tbsp
Salt (2%):    8.63 g | 0.3 oz | 0.02 lbs | 1.55 tsp | 0.52 tbsp
Vegetable (Soybean) Oil (1%):    4.31 g | 0.15 oz | 0.01 lbs | 0.95 tsp | 0.32 tbsp
Sugar (2%):    8.63 g | 0.3 oz | 0.02 lbs | 2.16 tsp | 0.72 tbsp
Total (157.7%):   680.4 g | 24 oz | 1.5 lbs | TF = N/A

The salt, sugar, soybean oil and yeast are complete guesses.  I'm looking for input on the recipe above to see if anyone has any other thoughts.  The only thing that I know for sure is that the flour, salt, sugar, and soybean oil all add up to a weight of 16 ounces and the water weighs 8 ounces.  Is anyone familiar with the ingredients in their flour?  The list is strikingly close to All Trumps but it doesn't contain potassium bromate.

Below are pics of the packaging, a pic of my pizza, then a pic of an actual Just Pizza pizza (the pic with the slices cut incorrectly).

Title: Re: Trying to duplicate Buffalo, NY style pizza
Post by: AlexE on May 21, 2015, 04:22:20 PM
Made this again w/ the bocce club sauce from earlier in this thread. I've never had bocce club pizza but I didn't really like the sauce. I used low moisture whole milk mozz that i shredded myself and margherita pepperoni.

I keep trying different sauce recipes and I always go back to my favorite: http://allrecipes.com/recipe/exquisite-pizza-sauce/

here's a pic of the pizza http://i.imgur.com/vO2q637.jpg
Title: Re: Trying to duplicate Buffalo, NY style pizza
Post by: pythonic on June 09, 2015, 06:39:14 PM
Pythonic,

Your pizza looks really good.  How did it taste?  Yes my pics from reply 13 are based on the recipe in reply 10.  The only changes were that i used all trumps flour.

Chris

Was good but I need to use a different tomato base than the 7/11s.
Title: Re: Trying to duplicate Buffalo, NY style pizza
Post by: Ogwoodfire on July 14, 2015, 09:07:35 AM
I actually have the original Bocce Club Recipe and I remember most of it off the top of my head (I was a manager there years ago). Much of what you guys have is very close. I have to run right now to do a lunch event with my Neapolitan Food Truck, but tonight I will think very hard about what I did Back then and give a breakdown to the best of my ability. My first job was actually making dough for bocce club. I have made their pizza many times at home with great success. As much as I love pizza i think all types a great, but to me nothing compares to a a buffalo style pizza done correctly. I'll get back to this soon!
Title: Re: Trying to duplicate Buffalo, NY style pizza
Post by: shmigga on July 14, 2015, 09:51:53 AM
Ogwoodfire...that would be awesome if you could help us out with the recipe!
Title: Re: Trying to duplicate Buffalo, NY style pizza
Post by: Ogwoodfire on July 15, 2015, 08:32:07 AM
Okay so here's a breakdown of what I Remember from making bocces pizza. Forgive me for any typos I'm using my iPhone. For a 50lb bag of all trumps it is 28 lbs water so 56% hydration, seems low I know but there's more to it. I cup of IDY which is about 5 ounces and I beleive about a cup and a half salt but could be slightly more as well as 1 cup sugar. So bakers percentage would look something like:

Flour 100%
Water 56%
Salt apx 2%
Sugar 1%
IDY .66%

Now we would mix on low for 10 minuets  and then high for about 5. Not saying I agree with any of this its just how we did It. After removing from mixer we would cover and let rest for 20 mins before balling and spreading (we used a sheeter) on well seasoned and oiled sheet trays. The sheet trays would remain gay room temp for 2 hours where we than would use a spray bottle of water a few times to spray the top of the dough while in the proofing racks. The dough would then go into the cooler for next day use where the dough would again come to room temp before use. Hope this makes sense feel free to ask if any questions. If there are any amounts I'm not 100% sure about its the salt.

Sauce: Sauce was a blend of 2 cans Bonta 2 cans Redpack and 2 cans water with a cup of sugar and I beleive a cup of salt as well. We also added a spice mix mostly dried basil and oregano probably another cup and a half and mixed.

Cheese: Sorrento shredded always, I prefer to shred myself.

Pepperoni a blend of Margherita cup and chat and Margherita stick that we sliced with a slicer.

I hope this helps. I'm actually dying for some boxes right now but all I eat now a days is Neo with my pizza truck. Hopefully I can make my own Buffalo style soon as iam looks into cutting out the shortcuts they have taken over the years and removing them (perhaps SD and making my own sauce). I will say a critical element I this pizza is spraying the dough with a mist of water, it allows for a crispy bottom with the olive oil when decking but a soft spongy top, which is a great combination.

Title: Re: Trying to duplicate Buffalo, NY style pizza
Post by: Another One Bites The Crust on July 15, 2015, 08:54:52 AM
What you just described with the water is something I was trying to accomplish when I made this style of pizza.  I was going to attempt using butter pre sauce but Ill have to try both and see what comes out better. 

Im surprised to see they didn't use Ezzo Peperoni.  I finally found someone who will order it for me with their food order so I am looking forward to trying that. 


Title: Re: Trying to duplicate Buffalo, NY style pizza
Post by: shmigga on July 15, 2015, 09:01:26 AM
What you just described with the water is something I was trying to accomplish when I made this style of pizza.  I was going to attempt using butter pre sauce but Ill have to try both and see what comes out better. 

Im surprised to see they didn't use Ezzo Peperoni.  I finally found someone who will order it for me with their food order so I am looking forward to trying that.

From what I can remember, I think Picasso's may be one of the only pizzeria's that use Ezzo pepperoni.  I think most places use Margherita brand.
Title: Re: Trying to duplicate Buffalo, NY style pizza
Post by: shmigga on July 15, 2015, 09:03:40 AM
Okay so here's a breakdown of what I Remember from making bocces pizza. Forgive me for any typos I'm using my iPhone. For a 50lb bag of all trumps it is 28 lbs water so 56% hydration, seems low I know but there's more to it. I cup of IDY which is about 5 ounces and I beleive about a cup and a half salt but could be slightly more as well as 1 cup sugar. So bakers percentage would look something like:

Flour 100%
Water 56%
Salt apx 2%
Sugar 1%
IDY .66%

Now we would mix on low for 10 minuets  and then high for about 5. Not saying I agree with any of this its just how we did It. After removing from mixer we would cover and let rest for 20 mins before balling and spreading (we used a sheeter) on well seasoned and oiled sheet trays. The sheet trays would remain gay room temp for 2 hours where we than would use a spray bottle of water a few times to spray the top of the dough while in the proofing racks. The dough would then go into the cooler for next day use where the dough would again come to room temp before use. Hope this makes sense feel free to ask if any questions. If there are any amounts I'm not 100% sure about its the salt.

Sauce: Sauce was a blend of 2 cans Bonta 2 cans Redpack and 2 cans water with a cup of sugar and I beleive a cup of salt as well. We also added a spice mix mostly dried basil and oregano probably another cup and a half and mixed.

Cheese: Sorrento shredded always, I prefer to shred myself.

Pepperoni a blend of Margherita cup and chat and Margherita stick that we sliced with a slicer.

I hope this helps. I'm actually dying for some boxes right now but all I eat now a days is Neo with my pizza truck. Hopefully I can make my own Buffalo style soon as iam looks into cutting out the shortcuts they have taken over the years and removing them (perhaps SD and making my own sauce). I will say a critical element I this pizza is spraying the dough with a mist of water, it allows for a crispy bottom with the olive oil when decking but a soft spongy top, which is a great combination.

Can't wait to try this out.  I'm surprised to see that there is no oil in this dough recipe.  I have been struggling with getting my dough to cook properly and I thought that there might bee too much oil in the recipe.  Thanks for sharing this with us!
Title: Re: Trying to duplicate Buffalo, NY style pizza
Post by: Another One Bites The Crust on July 15, 2015, 09:15:44 AM
From what I can remember, I think Picasso's may be one of the only pizzeria's that use Ezzo pepperoni.  I think most places use Margherita brand.

Ahh yes I think we spoke about this before.  Where do you get Margherita Cup and Char?  I have been able to find it, and would definitely like to try the spicy version.
Title: Re: Trying to duplicate Buffalo, NY style pizza
Post by: shmigga on July 15, 2015, 09:39:19 AM
I know that you can get it from a Latina foods if you are interested in purchasing 10 pounds of it.  Wegman's sells a "Spicy Cup" pepperoni in their make your own pizza section.  It's made by Battistoni and isn't too bad.  I used a regular stick of Margherita pepperoni from Tops for the last pizza I made and it actually cupped and charred.  This is the first time that this has ever happened though.  If you are in the Buffalo area, you could probably just buy some from a pizzeria.  I was lucky enough to acquire some from one of my favorite pizzeria's in the area.  I wish it was easier to find but it seems like you need to go through a supplier in order to get it.
Title: Re: Trying to duplicate Buffalo, NY style pizza
Post by: shmigga on July 15, 2015, 09:41:18 AM
Ahh yes I think we spoke about this before.  Where do you get Margherita Cup and Char?  I have been able to find it, and would definitely like to try the spicy version.

I'm not sure how far you are away from Buffalo since you live in Upstate NY, but you could try getting it from this place if you are ever in the Buffalo area http://www.willowbrook-farms.com/
Title: Re: Trying to duplicate Buffalo, NY style pizza
Post by: Another One Bites The Crust on July 15, 2015, 09:55:39 AM
I work in buffalo typically so I can stop by next time Im out there.
Title: Re: Trying to duplicate Buffalo, NY style pizza
Post by: Ogwoodfire on July 15, 2015, 11:18:43 AM
Yes definetly no oil in the Bocce recipe. I beleive Francios and Picassos uses some. Also the water in recipe is in the 90 degree range, also spray bottle.
Title: Re: Trying to duplicate Buffalo, NY style pizza
Post by: shmigga on July 15, 2015, 05:05:17 PM
Ogwoodfire...I have a few questions for you.

For the sauce, I'm assuming that you used 6lb 11 0z cans of sauce?  Did you use Bonta tomato puree?  Do you happen to remember what Redpack tomatoes you used?  I'm guessing either tomato paste or sauce?  Was the sauce cooked after all of the ingredients were mixed?

For the dough...the last paragraph you say that the olive oil helps crisp the bottom of the crust.  I'm assuming the pan was greased with olive oil (not vegetable or shortening) before the dough was spread out on the pan?

Do you happen to remember the bake time and temperature?  Thanks for all your help.

These videos below might help out forum members who aren't familiar with Bocce Pizza...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WPG2Til_N14

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qIk7RhqNCWc

Title: Re: Trying to duplicate Buffalo, NY style pizza
Post by: Ogwoodfire on July 16, 2015, 12:16:40 AM
Sauce was bonta extra heavy and red pack pizza sauce I believe, it was probably 10 years ago but I definitely wasn't cooked. The oil was an olive oil blend that , the pans were very seasoned at that point, nearly all black. Cup and char pre sliced are very similar to if you sliced thinly a hard stick pepperoni either margherita or boars head. In buffalo it's almost always  margherita or battistoni. I've never heard of ezzo but if anyone uses them it would be Picasso or Franco's they use a different pepperoni than nearly everyone else. Also with the sheet pans if you do this at home I will want to season first or put shortening down before oil. Oven temp was 500-550

I went to the original bocces today had a slice and it was great. I did read an old article from the 70ds that said they were cooking a sauce back then and using shortening on the pans, obviously things change over time.
Title: Re: Trying to duplicate Buffalo, NY style pizza
Post by: Ogwoodfire on July 16, 2015, 12:20:28 AM
Also sauce today tasted like straight red pack.
Title: Re: Trying to duplicate Buffalo, NY style pizza
Post by: tweezer on August 05, 2015, 02:47:28 AM
Hi There,

Sorry I'm a little late to this thread,

I'm born and raised in Buffalo, but have been living in Thailand for years and have been trying to recreate the Buffalo pizza... I even bought an imported stone deck pizza oven.  Finding the right ingredients is a real challenge here, and getting the dough right is tough, especially with the humidity.

Many, many moons ago I worked the ovens at Nino's in WS.  I can say this:
The dough was made pretty much daily.  I don't really remember anything special about the recipe, except that it was made and used the same day, and not refrigerated (unless leftovers for the next day).

They stretched the dough on the aluminum pan with plenty (but not too much) Crisco first, then the stretched dough on the pan usually was allowed to sit on a rack for a while before it got topped and cooked.

In the oven, it was definitely about 10 min or so, then we'd yank the pan out and let it sit on the deck for 3 to 5 minutes.

Anyway... looking forward to trying some of these dough recipes... they look awesome in the pics!!

Cheers,
T
Title: Re: Trying to duplicate Buffalo, NY style pizza
Post by: shmigga on August 05, 2015, 05:14:16 PM
Thanks for the info Tweezer.  I can't imagine trying to duplicate this style pizza all the way over in Thailand.  Must be hard!
Title: Re: Trying to duplicate Buffalo, NY style pizza
Post by: shmigga on August 05, 2015, 05:21:23 PM
Figured I would post an update.  I ended up using OGwoodfire's Bocce recipe for the dough on this one.

Here is the recipe I used for a 16" all though it really is enough for a 17"

Flour (100%) 473.4g | 16.7 oz
Water (56%) 265.11g | 9.35 oz
IDY (.66%) 3.12g | .11 oz
Salt (2%) 9.47g | .33 oz
Sugar (11%) 4.73g | .17 oz

Total : 755.83g 26.66 oz

I followed OG's instructions on mixing the ingredients, oiling the pain, and spraying the dough with water.  The pizza is a BBQ chicken finger pizza and it turned out great.  The dough was very good and I'll definitely make it again.  I can't say how it compares to Bocce's pizza dough as I have probably only had it about twice in my life.
Title: Re: Trying to duplicate Buffalo, NY style pizza
Post by: gator24 on August 06, 2015, 02:07:24 PM
Looks Amazing!
Title: Re: Trying to duplicate Buffalo, NY style pizza
Post by: tweezer on August 07, 2015, 10:28:40 PM
Howdy shmigga et al!

Here's an update.... I actually also followed the Shmigga recipe and I was thrilled with the result!!!

Flour (100%):    424.57 g
Water (58%):    246.25 g
ADY (0.4%):    1.7 g
Salt (1.50%):    6.37 g
Vegetable (Soybean) Oil (7.3%):
Sugar (4.2%):    17.83 g

A few things I did a bit differently though, were for the flour, I used 2/3 (about 325g) Gold Medal all purpose flour (unbleached), and then 1/3 (about 150g) Gold Medal Bread Flour.  I used Olive oil, and I used more yeast (about 5g or so).

Cooked 10 minute on a greased pan at 525F, then 4-5 more minutes on the deck.

It came out with great texture, and was delicious!!!!  Gonna make it again tonight!!!

Edit: BTW I made 2 12 inch pizzas with that recipe....

Edit 2:  The closest thing I could find to Buffalo style pepperoni was this Hungarian Kolbasz that I found in a Bangkok supermarket.  It's petty good, but a little salty.
Title: Re: Trying to duplicate Buffalo, NY style pizza
Post by: Ogwoodfire on August 10, 2015, 11:33:18 PM
Looks good! Most places here if they use fat in the dough use lard not oil, that being said there are a few places who grease their pans with oil not lard. Most of these recipes are very, very similar from dough to sauce etc. As much as I do love this type of pizza there are a few flaws I find with recipe percentage and methods which I do beleive can be improved on. I wish I had more time because I would love to start working on my Buffalo style pie but it will have to wait until late fall/winter.
Title: Re: Trying to duplicate Buffalo, NY style pizza
Post by: Ogwoodfire on August 10, 2015, 11:37:10 PM
Shmigga,

Looks close. A little browner than bocce and a little less spring. But lots of similarities. Sugar could be high and was it cold water sprayed on dough pre bake? Just wondering about the browning, could just be a longer bake due to toppings.
Title: Re: Trying to duplicate Buffalo, NY style pizza
Post by: shmigga on August 11, 2015, 11:03:24 AM
The water was room temperature.  I was surprised that the crust browned so much.  The dough tasted pretty good though.  Did Bocce use their dough the same day it was made?
Title: Re: Trying to duplicate Buffalo, NY style pizza
Post by: gator24 on August 11, 2015, 10:17:50 PM
I think he said they put it in the cooler for 24 hours.

I made the dough last night and will make it for lunch tomorrow. I'll let you guys know how it turns out!
Title: Re: Trying to duplicate Buffalo, NY style pizza
Post by: gator24 on August 12, 2015, 03:34:18 PM
I tried to duplicate a Bocce's half-pizza with Ogwoodfire's recipe. By far the best dough recipe that I've made. The only difference I'll do next time is put lard on the pans instead of oil. There just is something about lard that blackens the cheese and taste so good! The sauce was pretty damn close to Bocce's. I think I made it a little too runny. I got the Bonta extra heavy which is amazing! I mixed it with redpack puree because I cant find pizza sauce. Overall it was the closest to Bocce's that I can get around here in MN. Thank Ogwoodfire!!
Title: Re: Trying to duplicate Buffalo, NY style pizza
Post by: shmigga on August 12, 2015, 04:08:42 PM
That Pizza looks really good!  That might just be the best Bocce copy cat pizza ever.  I would try to duplicate a Bocce pizza but honestly, I wouldn't be able to tell if it tasted like Bocce's or not as I just haven't had there pizza enough to remember how it tastes.  I was up in Buffalo a few months ago and got a half of a pizza from Bocce...it was probably one of the worst (Buffalo style) pizza's I've ever had.  Almost as bad as Just Pizza.  That being said, it was late and I think the person who made it just didn't care at all.  There was literally no sauce on the pizza and it was super thin.  I would love to be able to duplicate Pasquale's pizza.

Here are a few pics of the pizza mentioned above:
Title: Re: Trying to duplicate Buffalo, NY style pizza
Post by: gator24 on August 12, 2015, 04:33:23 PM
Ugggghh, the last time I had Bocce's it tasted like crap. The dough has always been good for me but the sauce was horrendous. But Bocces in the day had amazing pizza! Same with Leonardi's!
Title: Re: Trying to duplicate Buffalo, NY style pizza
Post by: shmigga on August 12, 2015, 04:56:34 PM
It's too bad Bocce's has gone down hill.  Funny I tried to go Leonardi's...started calling them at about 8:45PM one night. They never answered so I just drove over there since their website said they are open until 10.  Got there around 9:10 and they said that they stop taking orders at 9 PM.   So that sucked...ended up going to Ted's instead.

I've had Imperial pizza many times and I've been told that it's the "same" as Bocce.  I do remember their pizza being very good...
Title: Re: Trying to duplicate Buffalo, NY style pizza
Post by: gator24 on August 12, 2015, 09:23:52 PM
Ah yes, Ted's...another Buffalo staple!!! Charlie the Butcher as well!!
Title: Re: Trying to duplicate Buffalo, NY style pizza
Post by: Ogwoodfire on August 13, 2015, 12:57:52 PM
Shmigga,

That last attempt looks great. Back in the day Bocce used lard, more recently oil with seasoned pans, I use a blend on my Buffalo Pies it works best for me. I have my interpretation of a Buffalo style pie and honestly it blows them all away. As of late Imperial is the best or at least most consistent around. Leonardis is very hit and miss but can be great. Once things start slowing down in th food truck season here I plan to work on my Buffalo recipe and I will share it with everyone, we may also have a takeout place for people in town to visit. My goal is to put Buffalo style pizza on the map the way it deserves.
Title: Re: Trying to duplicate Buffalo, NY style pizza
Post by: shmigga on August 13, 2015, 03:36:19 PM
OG...I think you meant to reply to Gator.  Can't wait to see your Buffalo style pie though!  The local NPR radio station here in Atlanta put out a survey asking people what their favorite style pizza was.  Believe or not, "Buffalo Style" was on the list!  Here is the link to the article http://wabe.org/post/atlantas-pizza-identity-residents-deliver-their-opinions (http://wabe.org/post/atlantas-pizza-identity-residents-deliver-their-opinions).  I think the reason they included Buffalo Style is because there is a "local" place that serves Buffalo Style Pizza.  They have three locations and when you walk in, it's almost list walking into a pizzeria in Buffalo.  There are tons of Bills/Sabres signs and pictures all over.  Their pizza is right on par with Just Pizza which is somewhat unfortunate, but it's better than most places down here.  Galla's is the name of the place in case you are interested http://www.gallaspizza.com/ (http://www.gallaspizza.com/).

IMO Pasquale's is the benchmark.  Blasdell Pizza in South Buffalo was also very good.  I used to like Abbott Pizza a lot but it seems as if they've change something since moving to their new building a few years ago. 
Title: Re: Trying to duplicate Buffalo, NY style pizza
Post by: sachmo on August 19, 2015, 09:22:04 AM
Shmigga,

That last attempt looks great. Back in the day Bocce used lard, more recently oil with seasoned pans, I use a blend on my Buffalo Pies it works best for me. I have my interpretation of a Buffalo style pie and honestly it blows them all away. As of late Imperial is the best or at least most consistent around. Leonardis is very hit and miss but can be great. Once things start slowing down in th food truck season here I plan to work on my Buffalo recipe and I will share it with everyone, we may also have a takeout place for people in town to visit. My goal is to put Buffalo style pizza on the map the way it deserves.

I still live in Buffalo (O Park) and go to Imperial quite a bit they actually bought the pizzeria from Bocce along with the recipe years ago. I agree that they are the best around. I use to purchase from the original Bocce's years ago when they were on Clinton and Box St. I think they are still at the same location but do not advertise in the phone book. People around that area still go there.
Title: Re: Trying to duplicate Buffalo, NY style pizza
Post by: sachmo on August 19, 2015, 09:35:21 AM
From what I can remember, I think Picasso's may be one of the only pizzeria's that use Ezzo pepperoni.  I think most places use Margherita brand.

I asked at Picasso on McKinnley which pepperoni they use and they said Margherita cup and char. I also went to Latina Foods which sells Both Ezzo and Margharita and the said the same thing. I would like to by some of the pepperoni from Latina's but for home use it cost way to much for a 25lb case. Restaurant Depot carries Margharita brand in 12.5lb bags, but I don't know if its cup and char, there is a case that says cologen on the side which is Margharita and is 25lbs I think the single bag is from the same case?
Title: Re: Trying to duplicate Buffalo, NY style pizza
Post by: shmigga on August 19, 2015, 09:46:50 AM
I asked at Picasso on McKinnley which pepperoni they use and they said Margherita cup and char. I also went to Latina Foods which sells Both Ezzo and Margharita and the said the same thing. I would like to by some of the pepperoni from Latina's but for home use it cost way to much for a 25lb case. Restaurant Depot carries Margharita brand in 12.5lb bags, but I don't know if its cup and char, there is a case that says cologen on the side which is Margharita and is 25lbs I think the single bag is from the same case?

It sounds like that is the right stuff but I'm not 100% sure.  Since you still live in the area, I would try buying pepperoni right from Picasso's or another pizzeria.  I'm sure they would sell it to you and that way you don't need to buy 12.5 or 25 pounds worth.  You might also want to check out this place http://www.willowbrook-farms.com/.  Their website says that they sell cup and char (2/12.5 lb boxes).  Maybe they sell it in less quantities in their actual store.  I'm pretty sure that Latina foods sells their own branded cup and char pepperoni in 5 lb bags as well.  This might be a good option for you.
Title: Re: Trying to duplicate Buffalo, NY style pizza
Post by: shmigga on August 20, 2015, 05:01:57 PM
Here is a pic of my last pie using OG's recipe.  Turned out pretty good.  Unfortunately I had to use KABF as I am all out of All Trumps.  I cooked it in my Blackstone for about 12 minutes.  Stone temp was around 520 and top stone was around 560.  Pepperoni is Margherita cup and char.  I have to work on my sauce recipe a little bit.  I like my current recipe, but I don't think it has an "authentic" Buffalo taste.  I'm going to try and get some red pack tomatoes this weekend and see how much different they taste.  Let me know what you think  :D I know I know...it doesn't look like Bocce's Pizza.  Maybe some day I will try to make a Bocce style pie.

Title: Re: Trying to duplicate Buffalo, NY style pizza
Post by: shmigga on August 20, 2015, 05:10:56 PM
Here is a question for everyone.  Below is a pic of a pizza form Pasquale's.  From what I can remember, the cheese on top of their pizza never browns or crisps.  Does anyone know why this is or how they make this happen?  It's hard to tell from this picture, but I'm wondering if they put a little bit of olive oil on the top of their pie's before they cook them.
Title: Re: Trying to duplicate Buffalo, NY style pizza
Post by: Pete-zza on August 20, 2015, 06:41:25 PM
schmigga,

If you scan the photos of the Papa John's clone pizzas that I discussed in the PJ clone thread at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=6758.msg58195#msg58195 , you will see the same phenomenon. In my case, I baked the pizzas in my standard electric home oven on a screen and used a mozzarella cheese sold at the time at retail under the name Best Choice. I personally liked the whiteness of the cheese but unfortunately the supermarket that sold the Best Choice cheese was taken over by another supermarket chain and the new owners decided to discontinue the product. I might add that other brands of mozzarella cheese that I used in my oven did not retain the whiteness after baking. I did not use any oil on the cheese.

Peter
Title: Re: Trying to duplicate Buffalo, NY style pizza
Post by: aSliceofHeaven on August 27, 2015, 06:04:14 PM
Here's a pic of a pie made tonight.
Title: Re: Trying to duplicate Buffalo, NY style pizza
Post by: shmigga on September 02, 2015, 12:43:26 PM
Peter,

Thank you for your input.  I agree with you and prefer a whiter looking cheese that isn't brown and crispy.  I looked at a few pictures I've taken of other Pasquale's pizzas that don't have pepperoni on them and their cheese ended up getting a little brown.  Do you think the grease from their pepperoni prevents the cheese from browning?  Their pepperoni is a little different than most others.  They use a spicier pepperoni and their pizza is typically pretty greasy.  I suppose they could be using a different brand of cheese but would be surprised since Sorrento is very popular in Buffalo (as it's made in Buffalo).  On a side note, I picked up some Sorrento cheese from Restaurant Depot and found that the ingredients are different than what they use in the Galbini brand cheese.  It looks like they did change their recipe for the consumer brand of cheese.  For some reason the Galbini brand has vinegar in it and lacks the "cheese cultures" that are used in the restaurant quality cheese.  I did notice a difference in taste and the real Sorrento cheese was much dryer.

Here is a few pics of the last pie I made.  This is by far the best one I've made so far...
Title: Re: Trying to duplicate Buffalo, NY style pizza
Post by: shmigga on September 02, 2015, 12:44:49 PM
asliceofheaven,

Your pizza looks good.  Did you cook it in your home oven?  I'm wondering how you were able to get some char on the crust.
Title: Re: Trying to duplicate Buffalo, NY style pizza
Post by: Pete-zza on September 02, 2015, 01:34:52 PM
Peter,

Thank you for your input.  I agree with you and prefer a whiter looking cheese that isn't brown and crispy.  I looked at a few pictures I've taken of other Pasquale's pizzas that don't have pepperoni on them and their cheese ended up getting a little brown.  Do you think the grease from their pepperoni prevents the cheese from browning?  Their pepperoni is a little different than most others.  They use a spicier pepperoni and their pizza is typically pretty greasy.  I suppose they could be using a different brand of cheese but would be surprised since Sorrento is very popular in Buffalo (as it's made in Buffalo).  On a side note, I picked up some Sorrento cheese from Restaurant Depot and found that the ingredients are different than what they use in the Galbini brand cheese.  It looks like they did change their recipe for the consumer brand of cheese.  For some reason the Galbini brand has vinegar in it and lacks the "cheese cultures" that are used in the restaurant quality cheese.  I did notice a difference in taste and the real Sorrento cheese was much dryer.
schmigga,

With so many different mozzarella cheeses available for use on pizzas, it is hard to say whether the grease from pepperoni prevents the cheese from browning. However, scott123 noted at Reply 12 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=19711.msg193505;topicseen#msg193505 (http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=19711.msg193505;topicseen#msg193505) that "cheese almost always melts flawless in a pepperoni setting". He also noted other measures that can help cheese cook properly, such as drizzling oil over the cheese and misting the cheese with water before baking the pizza.

As for the Sorrento and Galbani mozzarella cheeses, it is quite common for the retail and foodservice brands to differ. And it seems that the foodservice brands are usually better than the retail brands. And I have had store brands that are better than the name brands found at the same store.

Peter
Title: Re: Trying to duplicate Buffalo, NY style pizza
Post by: shmigga on September 02, 2015, 02:20:35 PM
Thanks Pete...I'll take a look at that post.

As for Sorrento/Galbini goes, I guess my point was that the old retail Sorrento contained cheese cultures while the new Galbini name doesn't.  According to their parent company, they weren't going to change the recipes when changing the name to Galbini.  I've read that they have changed the ricotta cheese recipe and it appears the mozzarella recipe as well.
Title: Re: Trying to duplicate Buffalo, NY style pizza
Post by: aSliceofHeaven on September 02, 2015, 11:38:14 PM
I cooked it at 500 (electric oven) for around 13 minutes middle shelf then transferred from pan to stone on bottom of oven. 
Title: Re: Trying to duplicate Buffalo, NY style pizza
Post by: aSliceofHeaven on September 03, 2015, 08:12:53 AM
Shmigga

What dough recipe did you use for your pie?
Title: Re: Trying to duplicate Buffalo, NY style pizza
Post by: Minolta Rokkor on September 06, 2015, 10:36:56 AM
Peter,

Thank you for your input.  I agree with you and prefer a whiter looking cheese that isn't brown and crispy.  I looked at a few pictures I've taken of other Pasquale's pizzas that don't have pepperoni on them and their cheese ended up getting a little brown.  Do you think the grease from their pepperoni prevents the cheese from browning?  Their pepperoni is a little different than most others.  They use a spicier pepperoni and their pizza is typically pretty greasy.  I suppose they could be using a different brand of cheese but would be surprised since Sorrento is very popular in Buffalo (as it's made in Buffalo).  On a side note, I picked up some Sorrento cheese from Restaurant Depot and found that the ingredients are different than what they use in the Galbini brand cheese.  It looks like they did change their recipe for the consumer brand of cheese.  For some reason the Galbini brand has vinegar in it and lacks the "cheese cultures" that are used in the restaurant quality cheese.  I did notice a difference in taste and the real Sorrento cheese was much dryer.

Here is a few pics of the last pie I made.  This is by far the best one I've made so far...


What were the exact ingredients and procedures that went into making this pie?
Title: Re: Trying to duplicate Buffalo, NY style pizza
Post by: Minolta Rokkor on September 07, 2015, 10:56:44 AM
Made this again w/ the bocce club sauce from earlier in this thread. I've never had bocce club pizza but I didn't really like the sauce. I used low moisture whole milk mozz that i shredded myself and margherita pepperoni.

I keep trying different sauce recipes and I always go back to my favorite: http://allrecipes.com/recipe/exquisite-pizza-sauce/

here's a pic of the pizza http://i.imgur.com/vO2q637.jpg

You
You're not the only one. I've tried others but this recipe beats all.
Title: Re: Trying to duplicate Buffalo, NY style pizza
Post by: pizza_bros on September 07, 2015, 05:42:29 PM
I just moved up to the Buffalo area for graduate school. I'm going to have to try out some of these places. I've had pizza from Bob and John's La Hacienda and Imperial Pizza down in South Buffalo.
Title: Re: Trying to duplicate Buffalo, NY style pizza
Post by: Falls4Life on September 23, 2015, 12:49:56 PM
I have been on this mission for about 2 years now.  I get closer and closer then I make a change that gets me further away.  I am now convinced that the cooking vessel has more to do with the end dough consistency than the actual recipe does. 

My original pans were steel and they gave the pizza a chewy tough texture.  I have had great results with cast iron skillets but it is not what I want to be using for my everyday pizza.  I am now moving to aluminum but I end up with a cooked top and practically raw underside.  I think the cheap aluminum just doesn't radiate the heat enough.  I just purchased some higher quality heavier aluminum pans and I think I am close to the same goal that we are all after.

As far as ingredients goes, I have found Margherita pepperoni at Walmart which was a good find. 

Every time I go home to visit I end up dissecting my pizza before I eat it which people find odd but I really don't care.  They can order that stuff any time they want, I can't and have to make it. 
Title: Re: Trying to duplicate Buffalo, NY style pizza
Post by: gator24 on September 30, 2015, 11:15:03 AM
I tried a different pan (the screen with holes on bottom), since I left my pizza stone at mom's house. If you're trying to make authentic Buffalo pizza, don't make it this way. I think it's better when baked in a greased pan and then cooked on the stone for a bit. 

But with that said, I still used Ogwoodfire's sauce recipee but this time with a little less italian seasoning (oregano and basil), and a little less water. I thought this tasted more like Bocce's classic sauce. I made this for my neighbors (who never even heard of a Buffalo style pizza), and they really were really impressed. They liked the sauce, but they were blown away about the pepperonni!
Title: Re: Trying to duplicate Buffalo, NY style pizza
Post by: Falls4Life on October 12, 2015, 09:41:36 AM
Classic standard cookie sheet
Steel cookie sheet
Cast iron skillet
Round aluminum with high sides
Round aluminum with holes in the bottom
Pizza stone
Thin aluminum
Heavy aluminum
*Aluminum pans used on top of the pizza stone

I am not sure I need to try any more pans.  The aluminum ones get the best texture by far.  They spring up the dough where the others seem to cook it too fast and I am left with chewy dense crust.  I might get the best pizza off of the stone but that is not the style that I am looking for.  Everyone of the pans completely change the end result with using the same pizza dough recipe.  The cast iron is good in a pinch but I am now only using the aluminum because I am a crazy person and the cast iron is not square.  Pizza needs to be square.  The heavier/non shiny aluminum pan is the best so far.  The last one I made was as close as I have gotten to what my goal has been, a traditional Western New York pizza.  It was slightly undercooked but it had the texture so close I am going to move away from the crust/pan journey and move to the sauce experiments.

Attaching an image of the steel darker pan, shiny aluminum pans, heavier dull aluminum pans I have tried.  The aluminum pans were purchased at Walmart.
Title: Re: Trying to duplicate Buffalo, NY style pizza
Post by: shmigga on October 16, 2015, 01:50:24 PM
Those are some pretty nice looking pies that everyone has been making.  Here are some pics of a recent pie I made that I guess you could say it has more of a Bocce look to it...

This is a completely different recipe than what's been posted in this thread.  I'm still tweaking this recipe, but this is what I've been using:

Good for 1 17" (26 oz) pie:

Flour (100%) ALL Trumps:    462.5 g  |  16.31 oz | 1.02 lbs
Water (55%):    254.38 g  |  8.97 oz | 0.56 lbs
IDY (.66%):    3.05 g | 0.11 oz | 0.01 lbs | 1.01 tsp | 0.34 tbsp
Salt (1.2%):    5.55 g | 0.2 oz | 0.01 lbs | 0.99 tsp | 0.33 tbsp
Olive Oil (.2%):    0.93 g | 0.03 oz | 0 lbs | 0.21 tsp | 0.07 tbsp
Vegetable (Soybean) Oil (3.8%):    17.58 g | 0.62 oz | 0.04 lbs | 3.87 tsp | 1.29 tbsp
Sugar (.93%):    4.3 g | 0.15 oz | 0.01 lbs | 1.08 tsp | 0.36 tbsp
Browning agent (whey, diastatic malt, pz-44, this is optional) (.77%):    3.56 g | 0.13 oz | 0.01 lbs | 1.51 tsp | 0.5 tbsp
Total (162.56%):   751.84 g | 26.52 oz | 1.66 lbs |

I usually mix the flour, water, browning agent, yeast, salt and sugar for about 2 minutes on low.  At this point, I'll add the oils and mix for another 2-3 mins.  Let it rest for 5 minutes then mix for maybe 3-5 mins on medium or so.  After I'm done mixing the dough, I immediately ball it and put it in the fridge.  The next step sorta happened by accident.  About 2 hours before you are going to bake the pie, take it out of the fridge and immediately spread it out on a 17" crisco greased pan (defining a small crust).  Let it sit for about 1-2 hours, then top and bake for about 12 mins at 495.  Now I know most people are probably wondering why I spread the dough out when it's cold...well I did it without thinking the first time and it has worked ever since.  After the pizza has cooked for about 12 minutes, I take it off the pan and place it on the stone for 30s to a minute.

Some things to think about.  I think I'm using way too much yeast.  I don't think you could use this dough after a day...or at least I've never tried.  I'm going to start playing with this recipe and try decreasing the yeast while increasing the hydration level to 60%+.  I was just in Buffalo and realized that I still need to improve the dough.  A lot of the pizzeria's in Buffalo seem to have have more of an airy fluffy thick dough which I think I might be able to achieve by increasing the hydration level.

Oh BTW...for the sauce I've been using the "Bocce" recipe posted by OG.  Basically 1 part Red Pack extra heavy pizza sauce, 1 part Bonta Extra heavy , .5 parts water and seasoning.  Typically I use a lot of oregano and a little bit of basil, garlic and sugar in my sauce.  Pizza in the pics has Margherita coarse pepperoni on it.  I just picked up a ton of Margherita Cup and Char (Restaurant Depot in Buffalo...$34 for 12.5 lbs) so I will probably be using that for a while.




Title: Re: Trying to duplicate Buffalo, NY style pizza
Post by: shmigga on October 16, 2015, 01:59:01 PM
Falls4Life,

Have you heard of lloydpans.com?  You might be able to find a nice rectangular pan on their website.  You must have grown up on rectangular pizza :-).  It's funny how we are.  I always prefer a 17 or 18" 8 slice pizza over anything smaller or with more slices.  I especially dislike round pies cut into squares.   Nothing wrong with a rectangular pizza though.  I used to love Picasso's.
Title: Re: Trying to duplicate Buffalo, NY style pizza
Post by: Falls4Life on October 16, 2015, 02:14:11 PM
It's a nostalgic thing.  I even cut my round pies in squares. 
Title: Re: Trying to duplicate Buffalo, NY style pizza
Post by: Minolta Rokkor on October 16, 2015, 02:20:26 PM
I can post results Monday actually.
This is on my to do list
Title: Re: Trying to duplicate Buffalo, NY style pizza
Post by: Minolta Rokkor on October 16, 2015, 02:34:49 PM
Also how much cheese do you use?
Title: Re: Trying to duplicate Buffalo, NY style pizza
Post by: shmigga on October 16, 2015, 03:31:32 PM
For a 17" pizza I usually us about 16-17 ounces of cheese.  I've been using Sorrento Whole Milk mozzarella (from restaurant depot).  The Galbini Mozzarella is ok.  For a 16" pie, 15-16 ounces is cheese seems about right.
Title: Re: Trying to duplicate Buffalo, NY style pizza
Post by: Minolta Rokkor on October 20, 2015, 11:03:48 AM
Ok, I added WAAAAAAAAAY too much water, but it should still come out fine.

Hopefully I can bake it in time.
Title: Re: Trying to duplicate Buffalo, NY style pizza
Post by: Minolta Rokkor on October 20, 2015, 04:43:15 PM
I tried, but I wish the crust was just a little darker.

Ok it's an imitation, because it used Poly-o- whole milk mozzarella and Food lion pepperoni.

but it still tasted good. I'm not a fan of cento crushed tomatoes on this pizza, and no they're FAAAAAAAAAR from bad.
They're really good actually, it's just they're not thick enough.

However, I dipped pizza slices in the Cento crushed tomatoes and BAM!!  :drool: Went from a good pizza to exceptional!
Cento crushed tomatoes make an amazing dipping sauce.
I'll make this again, except it will be square and cut into strips so they can be dipped, a party pizza of sorts.

I'll bake one more using paste instead of crushed tomatoes.

Here's the pic.

Title: Re: Trying to duplicate Buffalo, NY style pizza
Post by: Minolta Rokkor on October 20, 2015, 11:49:31 PM
Same as last time except I the sauce was equal parts seasoned tomato paste and  crushed tomatoes.

Add to that. My brother accidentally took out the dough that was created by Pete-zza  for a 14" greek pizza. I ended using that for my Buffalo NY style pizza
I liked better like this tbh. Only because it was thinner.

Family said it was best sauce I made,

and it's neater.

I have one more to make. It has a radical blend of Fresh mozzarella, provolone, and sharp white Cheddar.

The ratio of cheese for the future pie.
8 ounce mozz /4 ounces pro / 3 ounces ched
Title: Re: Trying to duplicate Buffalo, NY style pizza
Post by: Minolta Rokkor on October 21, 2015, 11:01:14 PM
Ok one more and i'm done


Title: Re: Trying to duplicate Buffalo, NY style pizza
Post by: shmigga on October 22, 2015, 08:19:39 AM
Looks good.  Did you use the recipe that I posted and if so, how did it taste?  How much water did you end up using?  Are you originally from Buffalo?  Sorry for all of the questions...
Title: Re: Trying to duplicate Buffalo, NY style pizza
Post by: Stevezilla on October 22, 2015, 02:00:16 PM
great photos, the pies look great.
Title: Re: Trying to duplicate Buffalo, NY style pizza
Post by: Minolta Rokkor on October 23, 2015, 01:31:03 PM
Looks good.  Did you use the recipe that I posted and if so, how did it taste?  How much water did you end up using?  Are you originally from Buffalo?  Sorry for all of the questions...


Yes I did use the recipe, for the first one and last pizza.
It tasted great. But the dough seemed to airy, I blame the hydration.
 However, it also seems like this kind of pizza should how loads of toppings.

Toppings that are very potent, like high quality thick hand cut pepperoni. Made the pie go from "Ok,  this is good" to a "Wow, this is exceptional"

 None the less, many people love thick style pizza in my area.
This IS something I plan on making for a birthday party or holiday party one day. It's dead easy to make and prepare.


I used  over 300g of water.

I'm from NC but raised in Virginia.


Also how much yeast should I use for a 3 day cold ferment? I'll also use the original recipe to see how to turns out.

Title: Re: Trying to duplicate Buffalo, NY style pizza
Post by: Minolta Rokkor on October 23, 2015, 01:31:38 PM
great photos, the pies look great.
Thanks steve ;D
Title: Re: Trying to duplicate Buffalo, NY style pizza
Post by: johnm53 on October 31, 2015, 12:34:25 PM
Hello

My first post. Some great reading here not to mention the pictures!

Does anyone have any ideas for reproducing the sauce used on Picasso's pizza?
Title: Re: Trying to duplicate Buffalo, NY style pizza
Post by: Ogwoodfire on January 02, 2016, 01:14:48 PM
I beleive Picassos, and Francos stem from the same original ownership. Iam not positive about Picassos but I know for a fact Francos uses San Benito extra heavy 3 cans to 2 water and typical spices and olive oil. My guess is it's very similar. If anything is different they may use Red Pack Sauce. A big element to Picassos is the "white spice" thy use, it's a mix of parm, garlic and some other things they put in pizza.

Jay
Title: Re: Trying to duplicate Buffalo, NY style pizza
Post by: aSliceofHeaven on February 01, 2016, 12:50:24 PM
Made a pepperoni onion pie 11 min in the pan 1 min on the stone.  Crust is perfect but still looking for a good sweet sauce.
Title: Re: Trying to duplicate Buffalo, NY style pizza
Post by: Rowzzy on March 06, 2016, 05:54:19 PM
Today's bocce clone, it's coming along!
Title: Re: Trying to duplicate Buffalo, NY style pizza
Post by: Rowzzy on March 06, 2016, 05:58:23 PM
Pic two
Title: Re: Trying to duplicate Buffalo, NY style pizza
Post by: Rowzzy on March 06, 2016, 06:07:25 PM
Pic three
Title: Re: Trying to duplicate Buffalo, NY style pizza
Post by: gator24 on March 07, 2016, 11:55:28 AM
Dude, that looks amazing! What dough recipe did you use?
Title: Re: Trying to duplicate Buffalo, NY style pizza
Post by: Minolta Rokkor on March 08, 2016, 10:23:52 AM
I really need to give this a proper go.

I'm going to do it right next time.
Title: Re: Trying to duplicate Buffalo, NY style pizza
Post by: Ogwoodfire on March 12, 2016, 10:05:38 PM
I started another thread on really diving into old school Buffalo style pies if anyone is interested.
https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=42106.new#new
Title: Re: Trying to duplicate Buffalo, NY style pizza
Post by: Rowzzy on March 19, 2016, 02:45:10 PM
Sorry gator24,didn't see your reply til today, thanks! I used shmigga's break down of ogwoodfire's bocce dough recipe, it's the real deal, I've made it alot,so easy and blows away pizzeria products especially in the south,life is good!  Thanks ogwoodfire! 
Title: Re: Trying to duplicate Buffalo, NY style pizza
Post by: shmigga on May 21, 2016, 05:18:48 PM
Looks like there are some nice pizza's being made.  Haven't posted anything in a while but I figured I would post a few pics of my latest pies.  I've pretty much got this down now.  I'll work on a full recipe/guide at some point....

Last pic is from Imperial Pizza in South Buffalo.  It looked really good although I would have to say that I was a bit disappointed with the taste.  Pasquale's would have been the better option.

The small pizza is a Chicken Cordon Bleu pie...trying to mimic one of my favorites.
Title: Re: Trying to duplicate Buffalo, NY style pizza
Post by: Trossite on July 14, 2016, 07:45:14 PM

Flour (100%) ALL Trumps:    462.5 g  |  16.31 oz | 1.02 lbs
Water (55%):    254.38 g  |  8.97 oz | 0.56 lbs
IDY (.66%):    3.05 g | 0.11 oz | 0.01 lbs | 1.01 tsp | 0.34 tbsp
Salt (1.2%):    5.55 g | 0.2 oz | 0.01 lbs | 0.99 tsp | 0.33 tbsp
Olive Oil (.2%):    0.93 g | 0.03 oz | 0 lbs | 0.21 tsp | 0.07 tbsp
Vegetable (Soybean) Oil (3.8%):    17.58 g | 0.62 oz | 0.04 lbs | 3.87 tsp | 1.29 tbsp
Sugar (.93%):    4.3 g | 0.15 oz | 0.01 lbs | 1.08 tsp | 0.36 tbsp
Browning agent (whey, diastatic malt, pz-44, this is optional) (.77%):    3.56 g | 0.13 oz | 0.01 lbs | 1.51 tsp | 0.5 tbsp
Total (162.56%):   751.84 g | 26.52 oz | 1.66 lbs |

I usually mix the flour, water, browning agent, yeast, salt and sugar for about 2 minutes on low.  At this point, I'll add the oils and mix for another 2-3 mins.  Let it rest for 5 minutes then mix for maybe 3-5 mins on medium or so.  After I'm done mixing the dough, I immediately ball it and put it in the fridge.  The next step sorta happened by accident.  About 2 hours before you are going to bake the pie, take it out of the fridge and immediately spread it out on a 17" crisco greased pan (defining a small crust).  Let it sit for about 1-2 hours, then top and bake for about 12 mins at 495.  Now I know most people are probably wondering why I spread the dough out when it's cold...well I did it without thinking the first time and it has worked ever since.  After the pizza has cooked for about 12 minutes, I take it off the pan and place it on the stone for 30s to a minute.


Approximately what is the TF of this pizza?  I'd like to plug the #s into the dough calculator to make a different size.
Title: Re: Trying to duplicate Buffalo, NY style pizza
Post by: Pete-zza on July 14, 2016, 07:52:22 PM
Approximately what is the TF of this pizza?  I'd like to plug the #s into the dough calculator to make a different size.
Trossite,

The answer is 26.52/(3.14159 x 8.5 x 8.5) = 0.11684.

Peter
Title: Re: Trying to duplicate Buffalo, NY style pizza
Post by: Trossite on July 14, 2016, 09:38:56 PM
OMG Pete!!!!! thank you for that formula that answers soo many questions.
Title: Re: Trying to duplicate Buffalo, NY style pizza
Post by: LAPizzaGuy on November 10, 2017, 05:32:45 PM
Thank you guys for helping with the making of a Buffalo pizza! I am originally from the Buff but have been living in LA for 11 years now. I have tried everything from shipping Bocce out to perfecting my own pie. I finally found a place that will ship the cup n char, which you guys already mentioned Battistoni.

I just made a batch of dough from OG, but did it using regular metrics, may need to use my scale this weekend to try again. Do you weigh out everything including the bowl or teaspoon it is in?

Thanks again y'all.
Title: Re: Trying to duplicate Buffalo, NY style pizza
Post by: rds454ss on December 22, 2017, 12:48:10 PM
Newby trying to do this in Dallas TX.  Real hard to get any of the good ingredients.  Question:  what kind of All Trumps?  Bleached or Unbleached?
Title: Re: Trying to duplicate Buffalo, NY style pizza
Post by: shmigga on December 28, 2017, 04:58:09 PM
You can use either.  Most places in Buffalo use bleached and bromated flour.
Title: Re: Trying to duplicate Buffalo, NY style pizza
Post by: rds454ss on December 29, 2017, 12:04:57 PM
Thank you Shmigga - I am going to buy 25lbs on amazon. I am slowly getting my ingredients together.  I know that it will be a lot of experimenting, but you have already answered a lot.
Title: Re: Trying to duplicate Buffalo, NY style pizza
Post by: matermark on August 13, 2018, 11:16:30 PM
So last time I was in Buffalo, I managed to grab a few make your own pizza mixes that Just Pizza sells.  Basically it contains everything that you need except water.  One package makes enough dough for two 16 inch pizzas.  I had pretty good results and the dough was quite a bit different than the stuff I've been making.  The pizza was definitely thinner than it should have been but it the dough cooked all of the way through.  It actually tasted a lot like Just Pizza's dough.  I am not a fan of Just Pizza, but I figured I would try the mix out just to see how it tasted

I've also tried to reverse engineer their recipe.  Assuming that they use 2% sugar and 2% salt, I came up with the recipe below:

Flour (100%):    431.45 g  |  15.22 oz | 0.95 lbs
Water (52.5%):    226.51 g  |  7.99 oz | 0.5 lbs
ADY (.2%):    0.86 g | 0.03 oz | 0 lbs | 0.23 tsp | 0.08 tbsp
Salt (2%):    8.63 g | 0.3 oz | 0.02 lbs | 1.55 tsp | 0.52 tbsp
Vegetable (Soybean) Oil (1%):    4.31 g | 0.15 oz | 0.01 lbs | 0.95 tsp | 0.32 tbsp
Sugar (2%):    8.63 g | 0.3 oz | 0.02 lbs | 2.16 tsp | 0.72 tbsp
Total (157.7%):   680.4 g | 24 oz | 1.5 lbs | TF = N/A

The salt, sugar, soybean oil and yeast are complete guesses.  I'm looking for input on the recipe above to see if anyone has any other thoughts.  The only thing that I know for sure is that the flour, salt, sugar, and soybean oil all add up to a weight of 16 ounces and the water weighs 8 ounces.  Is anyone familiar with the ingredients in their flour?  The list is strikingly close to All Trumps but it doesn't contain potassium bromate.

Below are pics of the packaging, a pic of my pizza, then a pic of an actual Just Pizza pizza (the pic with the slices cut incorrectly).
Almost all the pizzas up to this post I'm replying to don't look right, they all look too thick, especially the cornicione...
Title: Re: Trying to duplicate Buffalo, NY style pizza
Post by: matermark on August 13, 2018, 11:21:55 PM
Made this again w/ the bocce club sauce from earlier in this thread. I've never had bocce club pizza but I didn't really like the sauce. I used low moisture whole milk mozz that i shredded myself and margherita pepperoni.

I keep trying different sauce recipes and I always go back to my favorite: http://allrecipes.com/recipe/exquisite-pizza-sauce/

here's a pic of the pizza http://i.imgur.com/vO2q637.jpg
If you use Margherita, buy the stick pepperoni & slice it thicker than the pillow pack pepperoni... probably twice as thick...
Title: Re: Trying to duplicate Buffalo, NY style pizza
Post by: matermark on August 14, 2018, 12:01:10 AM
It sounds like that is the right stuff but I'm not 100% sure.  Since you still live in the area, I would try buying pepperoni right from Picasso's or another pizzeria.  I'm sure they would sell it to you and that way you don't need to buy 12.5 or 25 pounds worth.  You might also want to check out this place http://www.willowbrook-farms.com/.  Their website says that they sell cup and char (2/12.5 lb boxes).  Maybe they sell it in less quantities in their actual store.  I'm pretty sure that Latina foods sells their own branded cup and char pepperoni in 5 lb bags as well.  This might be a good option for you.

For anybody in the Buffalo area, don't know if it'll help anybody, but as of 2018 Willowbrook Farms went out of business...
Title: Re: Trying to duplicate Buffalo, NY style pizza
Post by: shmigga on November 26, 2018, 04:45:49 PM
I think I've mentioned this throughout the thread, but you can buy cup and char pepperoni from Wegmans.  I believe it's the Battistoni brand.
Title: Re: Trying to duplicate Buffalo, NY style pizza
Post by: shmigga on November 26, 2018, 04:50:22 PM
Almost all the pizzas up to this post I'm replying to don't look right, they all look too thick, especially the cornicione...

That's just your opinion.  Personally, I'm going for the Pasquale's look/taste as I don't care for Bocce/Imperial that much.  It's not going to "look" right if you don't have access to the correct pepperoni.
Title: Re: Trying to duplicate Buffalo, NY style pizza
Post by: Another One Bites The Crust on November 26, 2018, 04:51:08 PM
I think I've mentioned this throughout the thread, but you can buy cup and char pepperoni from Wegmans.  I believe it's the Battistoni brand.

Probably one of my favorite peps to use.


Anyone tried this yet?   I'm gonna give it a go soon.  I'm pretty happy with how my buffalo style pies have been for a bit  but always like to try different things.


Buffalo pizza
(From The Buffalo New York Cookbook, The Countryman Press, 178 pages, $19.95)

Buffalo pizza dough

Prep Time: 25 hours (15 minutes active); Yield: 2 dough balls

0.24 ounce active dry yeast
28.8 ounces warm water (80 to 85įF)
3 pounds (48 ounces) high- gluten flour
0.96 ounce sugar
0.96 ounce sea salt
1.4 ounces shortening
Add yeast to a large bowl. Add water and whisk to blend. Pour into stand mixer bowl. Add flour and mix on slow. Sprinkle in sugar. After 2 minutes add salt. You may have to stop and scrape the sides to help dough come together. Restart mixer. After 2 more minutes, add shortening and mix 3 minutes.
Remove dough to a clean bowl, cover with a clean damp cloth, and let rise for 45 minutes. Cut into two balls, place on a cookie sheet, cover with plastic wrap, and refrigerate for 24 hours.
Take dough out 1 hour before use.
Buffalo pizza sauce

Yield: 2 cups sauce (enough for two 18- inch pizzas)

3 teaspoons extra virgin olive oil
1 ounce tomato paste
1 cup water
1 teaspoon garlic powder
1 teaspoon onion powder
Ĺ teaspoon dried oregano
Ĺ teaspoon dried basil (or minced fresh)
ľ teaspoon freshly ground black pepper
2 teaspoons sugar
1 teaspoon kosher salt
Add olive oil to a large saucepan on low heat. Add tomato paste and water. Stir to thoroughly combine.
Add the rest of the ingredients, stir to combine, and simmer for 10 minutes. Turn off heat and let cool.
Buffalo pizza

Yield: Two 18- inch pizzas
1 cup bench flour
2 rounds Buffalo Pizza Dough (see recipe above)
8 teaspoons shortening
2 cups Buffalo Pizza Sauce (see recipe above)
42 ounces shredded mozzarella
4 teaspoons olive oil (optional)
⅔ cup sesame seeds, onion powder, garlic powder, Cajun spice, or Parmesan (optional)
1 pound sliced pepperoni (preferably Margherita)
Preheat oven to its highest setting, preferably 550įF. Place pizza steel in the oven. After it reaches 550įF, keep oven closed for 1 hour.
If you have advanced pizza dough moves, this is where to show them off. If you donít, cheat. Generously dust dough ďbenchĒ with flour (about Ĺ cup). Turn one dough round in on itself underneath to form a ball. Press down in the center and push out toward the edges repeatedly while also moving the dough in a circle clockwise for 15 seconds. Lift dough, dust the surface with flour, flip dough, then stretch from the center out to the edge while turning the dough in a circle for 2 minutes, and forming a slightly raised lip. Repeat until pizza is as wide as the pan and even throughout beyond the edge.
Use a paper towel to grease the entire surface of an 18- inch pizza pan with shortening (4 teaspoons). Place dough on pan and stretch out to arrange it so it reaches out a hair shy of the panís edge.
Ladle up to 1 cup of sauce from the center out in a spiral until itís evenly spread out over the dough up to ľ inch of the edge. If youíre making it Bocce Club style, ladle the sauce over the edge of the crust.
Evenly spread 21 ounces of cheese over the sauced dough. If youíre making it Bocce style, let the cheese cover the entire surface of the dough, including the crust. If youíre making it La Nova style, leave the crust rim cheese- free. You can either leave things at that or brush optional olive oil (2 teaspoons per pizza) along the rim and sprinkle sesame seed, onion powder, garlic powder, Cajun spice, or Parmesan on the crust Ĺ inch from the edge toward the center all the way around.
Evenly distribute half the pepperoni so that when you cut the pie in 8 slices there are 10 to 13 slices of pepperoni on each one. If there doesnít seem to be room, just do your best to pile them in between each otheró the pepperoni will shrink as it cooks and things will fall into place. Donít worry if things donít look exactly symmetrical. Controlled cup- and- char chaos is the effect youíre going for. If youíre making it Bocce style, make sure you have some pepperoni on the cornicione!
Place pan in oven for 10 minutes. Slide pizza off pan onto the steel and cook 2 to 3 minutes. Slide pie back onto the pan, cut into 8 slices, and serve.
Repeat for the second pie.
Title: Re: Trying to duplicate Buffalo, NY style pizza
Post by: shmigga on November 26, 2018, 04:55:51 PM
AnotherOneBitesTheCrust -

Thanks, I might give that dough recipe a shot tonight!  If so, I'll post pics and let you know how it goes!

BTW...is that cookbook new?  I bought a small Buffalo, NY cookbook a few years back for the sponge candy recipe...but I don't recall seeing a 178 page book. :-)
Title: Re: Trying to duplicate Buffalo, NY style pizza
Post by: Another One Bites The Crust on November 26, 2018, 05:15:23 PM
AnotherOneBitesTheCrust -

Thanks, I might give that dough recipe a shot tonight!  If so, I'll post pics and let you know how it goes!

BTW...is that cookbook new?  I bought a small Buffalo, NY cookbook a few years back for the sponge candy recipe...but I don't recall seeing a 178 page book. :-)

Yeah it's new.  So far the recipes look good.  I'm waiting to make sure the wife doesn't get it for me for Christmas before I buy it.
Title: Re: Trying to duplicate Buffalo, NY style pizza
Post by: shmigga on November 26, 2018, 05:48:52 PM
Nice!

Just mixed up some dough.  The dough ball weighed in at about 39 ounces which I know is way too much for an 18" pizza.  My normal dough ball is usually around 28-29 oz.  I ended up chopping off about 9 ounces...will let you know how it goes.

As far as the sauce goes, do you know if any ingredients are missing?  It says it will make 2 cups...but there is only 1 cup of water, very little paste/oil and some spices.


Thanks!
Title: Re: Trying to duplicate Buffalo, NY style pizza
Post by: Another One Bites The Crust on November 26, 2018, 05:59:06 PM
Nice!

Just mixed up some dough.  The dough ball weighed in at about 39 ounces which I know is way too much for an 18" pizza.  My normal dough ball is usually around 28-29 oz.  I ended up chopping off about 9 ounces...will let you know how it goes.

As far as the sauce goes, do you know if any ingredients are missing?  It says it will make 2 cups...but there is only 1 cup of water, very little paste/oil and some spices.


Thanks!

It would appear that the tomatoes themselves are missing from the print. 

As far as dough weight, Id have to look through my notes but I am pretty sure I usually use a 700g ball for a 15in.  So that's around 26oz for that.
Title: Re: Trying to duplicate Buffalo, NY style pizza
Post by: shmigga on November 26, 2018, 06:14:54 PM
Thanks!  I thought that was the case so I added about a cup of tomatoes.  So far, the sauce is tasting good!

As far as the dough goes, I suppose it depends on how thick you want it.  I brought a dough ball back from Buffalo that weighed in at 26 oz...for a 17" pizza.  For me, I don't care for the thickness of Imperial so 39 oz. might be good for others.

Can't wait to bake it tomorrow!
Title: Re: Trying to duplicate Buffalo, NY style pizza
Post by: shmigga on November 26, 2018, 06:21:30 PM
Alright...after thinking about it more, I've added the 10 ounces back in to make the dough ball about 39 ounces.  If anything, it will be a good test.
Title: Re: Trying to duplicate Buffalo, NY style pizza
Post by: Another One Bites The Crust on November 26, 2018, 06:45:34 PM
I always like to follow the recipe to a T the first time so I have a good base and then go from there.  I actually prefer my thick crust on the thinner side, and upon checking my notes, I made a note to try a 600g ball so around 21oz for 15in pie.

Can't wait to see how this turns out.  My pizzas are def more like Imperial or so I've been told, but I hands down prefer Mattinas to everything else.  I don't know why but I love it.
Title: Re: Trying to duplicate Buffalo, NY style pizza
Post by: shmigga on November 27, 2018, 06:19:29 PM
I'd say that the pizza was a success!  I think that people who like Imperial or maybe Bocce style pizza would like this recipe.  The pizza is really thick, cheesy, and tastes good!

For me, I think that the dough was a little too much although I do love how one slice weighed as much as a NYC style pizza lol.  Next time I'll probably scale it down to a 29 ounce dough ball (for 18").  I will say that it tasted really good!  I really liked the sauce as well.  Wish I would have had this recipe 4-5 years ago!  Would have save me a lot of trouble.  I'll let everyone know how using less dough works out when I make my next pizza. AnotherOneBitesTheCrust - thanks for posting this!

A couple things to note...

I cooked the pizza at 550 for 11 minutes on the pan then placed it on the stone for a minute.  I think a minute is too long and I knew there was no way 2-3 minutes would work without completely burning the crust.  So I cooked the pizza for a total of 12 minutes including stone time.  For me, 30 seconds on the stone is usually perfect.  I let the dough sit out in a 66 degree room for 2 hours before spreading it.  The dough was still cold when it went in to the oven but that didn't seem to impact the cook.

Title: Re: Trying to duplicate Buffalo, NY style pizza
Post by: Another One Bites The Crust on November 27, 2018, 06:26:22 PM
Looks good!  Im gonna give it a try and see how it compares to what I make now.
Title: Re: Trying to duplicate Buffalo, NY style pizza
Post by: Another One Bites The Crust on December 08, 2018, 10:40:36 PM
So just to follow up, the book was on sale for almost half off, so I snagged it.  I gotta say, I don't see a whole lot I'll be taking from the book.  The sauce recipe was correct, no tomatoes, just paste, which I don't agree with.    I'm gonna try it the way you did and see how it compares to my sauce, and drop the dough weight a little. 
Title: Re: Trying to duplicate Buffalo, NY style pizza
Post by: Falls4Life on February 06, 2019, 02:03:18 PM
Finally nailed my goal with this style.  I have always thought the recipe was second to the cooking method and for me that is very true.  I typically use the same recipe and try different pans and I have a post a while ago about this journey.  Yesterday I tried my typical recipe:

30oz KABF
18oz water (60% hydration)
.6 oz salt (2%)
.6oz sugar (2%)
1.8oz vegetable shortening (6%)
2oz active dry yeast (1 pkt)

My pizza was never cooking on the bottom with the aluminum pans since they dont really absorb the heat.  I solved that by using a slab of baking steel on the rack and letting it get to 500 before i slide the pizza on there.  The top typically doesn't cook either and it leaves a soft almost soggy result.  The baking steel box suggest placing a baking stone on the rack above to almost make a commercial oven (obviously not quite at hot as commercial) but the stone radiated the heat to cook the toppings. 

I wouldnt change a thing except i would use less toppings.  I tend to go overboard on cheese and toppings but that is easy to correct moving forward. 
Title: Re: Trying to duplicate Buffalo, NY style pizza
Post by: Kreetak on April 14, 2019, 12:09:36 PM
Hello guys,

I tried this recipe but was a completly disaster  :-D
Probably because I didn't calculate very well the ingredients, because I tried to do 2 balls for 12". And I worked with grams and I repleaced the ADY by cake yeast. Plus the dough was in CF about 3 days. So... you can imagine.

Can someone lend me a hand? PLEASE  ::) I want to try again!
Thank you :_) :angel:
Title: Re: Trying to duplicate Buffalo, NY style pizza
Post by: bosco on April 18, 2019, 09:06:19 PM
I am following and learning as much as I can here with this recipe!!!

Thanks for all of the great tips so far
Title: Re: Trying to duplicate Buffalo, NY style pizza
Post by: Falls4Life on April 19, 2019, 12:41:17 PM
This is what I have settled on and it is modeled after an episode of DDD when they went to western new york.  The basic recipe on here really doesn't change much and I don't believe that it is the biggest factor in creating this type of pizza.  I have done this recipe numerous times with different pans, stones, steal, and temperatures and it comes out different every time.  My suggestion is to lock in on a recipe and then play with your oven to find your sweet spot. 

https://www.foodnetwork.com/videos/pizza-pork-and-paprikash-0135987

25 oz King Arthur Bread Flour
15 oz warm water (60%) - You can probably go up to 65% and it will still work well.  I just think 60% is easier to handle (less sticky)
1.5 oz Veg Shortening (6%) - You can use oil here instead of shortening.  Just be aware that oil will hydrate your dough a bit more and I wouldn't go to 65% water. 
.5 oz Salt (2%)
.5 oz Sugar (2%)
1 packet Active Dry Yeast (~1 TBS) - I use active dry and it is dissolved in the water before adding.  You can substitute instant dry yeast here.

Get a scale for sure.  Don't trust any recipe that has cups as the measurement.  With weight you can tailor the amount as needed.  This usually gives me 2 solid 20 oz to 22 oz dough balls that I can get to 2 half trays of pizza out of. 

I mix all this for about 5 - 10 minutes until everything is fully mixed.  I let it rise in the bowl for about an hour or hour and a half before i ball it up.  I make the dough balls and place it in the fridge for 1 to 3 days.  Make sure you let the dough come back to room temp before you try to use it. 

I am currently using an aluminum baking sheet with baking steel on the oven racks.  I have baking steel on the bottom rack and on the rack above i have a large baking stone.  I let these 2 come to 500 degrees for about an hour before i put any pizzas in.  This method gives a faux commercial oven setting (minus the higher temps) and i have been getting great results. 
Title: Re: Trying to duplicate Buffalo, NY style pizza
Post by: Falls4Life on August 19, 2019, 09:57:03 AM
This is what I have settled on and it is modeled after an episode of DDD when they went to western new york.  The basic recipe on here really doesn't change much and I don't believe that it is the biggest factor in creating this type of pizza.  I have done this recipe numerous times with different pans, stones, steal, and temperatures and it comes out different every time.  My suggestion is to lock in on a recipe and then play with your oven to find your sweet spot. 

https://www.foodnetwork.com/videos/pizza-pork-and-paprikash-0135987

25 oz King Arthur Bread Flour
15 oz warm water (60%) - You can probably go up to 65% and it will still work well.  I just think 60% is easier to handle (less sticky)
1.5 oz Veg Shortening (6%) - You can use oil here instead of shortening.  Just be aware that oil will hydrate your dough a bit more and I wouldn't go to 65% water. 
.5 oz Salt (2%)
.5 oz Sugar (2%)
1 packet Active Dry Yeast (~1 TBS) - I use active dry and it is dissolved in the water before adding.  You can substitute instant dry yeast here.

Get a scale for sure.  Don't trust any recipe that has cups as the measurement.  With weight you can tailor the amount as needed.  This usually gives me 2 solid 20 oz to 22 oz dough balls that I can get to 2 half trays of pizza out of. 

I mix all this for about 5 - 10 minutes until everything is fully mixed.  I let it rise in the bowl for about an hour or hour and a half before i ball it up.  I make the dough balls and place it in the fridge for 1 to 3 days.  Make sure you let the dough come back to room temp before you try to use it. 

I am currently using an aluminum baking sheet with baking steel on the oven racks.  I have baking steel on the bottom rack and on the rack above i have a large baking stone.  I let these 2 come to 500 degrees for about an hour before i put any pizzas in.  This method gives a faux commercial oven setting (minus the higher temps) and i have been getting great results.

I need to clarify one measurement here.  I have it listed as TBS but it is actually a teaspoon.  For my recipe I typically use 1% active dry yeast.  For my batches that use over 20 oz of flour I use 1 packet of yeast (.25 oz).  In my experience 1 tbs is usually .1 oz so use 2 tsp for 20oz of flour and 3 tsp for 30, etc. 
Title: Re: Trying to duplicate Buffalo, NY style pizza
Post by: pepapi on September 09, 2019, 02:26:57 PM
Hey guys, I gave this one a shot on my Blackstone at floor temps between 500-560 or so.

I had to redo the numbers and here's what I came up with for 2 16" pizzas:

Bread flour, 100, 890g
Warm water, 59, 525g
Ady, 0.5, 4.45g
Salt, 2, 17.8
Oil, 3, 26.7g (had no shortening so subbed in oil)
Sugar, 2, 17.8g
Total, 1482g
Ball, 741g each

Used workflow of mix, bowl, cover with wet cloth and rise for 45 and then fridge for 24 hrs.

The balls were too big so I stretched to a out 18" and cut off the excess to give me a 16".  As per instructions I sauced and cheeses to edge.  Cooked for 10 on pan and then directly ok floor of Blackstone for 1 min.

Results were quite awesome, I think the flatness of no rim due to snipping it off and sauce/cheese to edge just made an excellent pizza!

Next time I'll make the sauce for it and use just mozza as I had to go cheddar and mozzarella due to running out.
Title: Re: Trying to duplicate Buffalo, NY style pizza
Post by: Falls4Life on September 09, 2019, 02:37:20 PM
Hey guys, I gave this one a shot on my Blackstone at floor temps between 500-560 or so.

I had to redo the numbers and here's what I came up with for 2 16" pizzas:

Bread flour, 100, 890g
Warm water, 59, 525g
Ady, 0.5, 4.45g
Salt, 2, 17.8
Oil, 3, 26.7g (had no shortening so subbed in oil)
Sugar, 2, 17.8g
Total, 1482g
Ball, 741g each

Used workflow of mix, bowl, cover with wet cloth and rise for 45 and then fridge for 24 hrs.

The balls were too big so I stretched to a out 18" and cut off the excess to give me a 16".  As per instructions I sauced and cheeses to edge.  Cooked for 10 on pan and then directly ok floor of Blackstone for 1 min.

Results were quite awesome, I think the flatness of no rim due to snipping it off and sauce/cheese to edge just made an excellent pizza!

Next time I'll make the sauce for it and use just mozza as I had to go cheddar and mozzarella due to running out.

The cheese looks to be the one thing killing that pizza.  If you are using pre shredded bag grocery store cheese, definitely steer clear of that.  It has so many things added to it and all it really does is burn instead of melting.  Nice work though!
Title: Re: Trying to duplicate Buffalo, NY style pizza
Post by: HansB on September 09, 2019, 02:48:29 PM
It has so many things added to it and all it really does is burn instead of melting. 

I think the pizza and cheese look fine. I've used pre shredded in a pinch.

Kraft Mozz:

Title: Re: Trying to duplicate Buffalo, NY style pizza
Post by: pepapi on September 09, 2019, 11:28:25 PM
No shredded for me on that pizza but like I said I ran out of mozza so threw some cheddar on there. 
Title: Re: Trying to duplicate Buffalo, NY style pizza
Post by: Ogwoodfire on September 17, 2019, 11:05:58 PM
For those of you who havenít seen this thread this is what your looking for. Many have used it with great success. I can assure you this is very consistent with what the better pizzerias in Buffal are doing. https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=42106.0
Title: Re: Trying to duplicate Buffalo, NY style pizza
Post by: shmigga on November 26, 2019, 04:55:44 PM
For those of you who havenít seen this thread this is what your looking for. Many have used it with great success. I can assure you this is very consistent with what the better pizzerias in Buffal are doing. https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=42106.0

Nice but I've already posted a few recipes in this thread that I started many years ago.
Title: Re: Trying to duplicate Buffalo, NY style pizza
Post by: shmigga on January 09, 2020, 05:02:46 PM
Decided to update this thread with a few pictures of one of my latest bakes.  The first pics are of a 17" pie and the second 2 pics are from a 16" pie. 

Here is the formula for 16":

Flour (100%):    382.49 g  |  13.49 oz | 0.84 lbs
Water (55%):    210.37 g  |  7.42 oz | 0.46 lbs
IDY (.63%):    2.41 g | 0.08 oz | 0.01 lbs | 0.8 tsp | 0.27 tbsp
Salt (2%):    7.65 g | 0.27 oz | 0.02 lbs | 1.37 tsp | 0.46 tbsp
Olive Oil (.5%):    1.91 g | 0.07 oz | 0 lbs | 0.42 tsp | 0.14 tbsp
Vegetable (Soybean) Oil (3.8%):    14.53 g | 0.51 oz | 0.03 lbs | 3.2 tsp | 1.07 tbsp
Sugar (2%):    7.65 g | 0.27 oz | 0.02 lbs | 1.92 tsp | 0.64 tbsp
Total (163.93%):   627.01 g | 22.12 oz | 1.38 lbs | TF = 0.11

After a recent trip up to Buffalo, I've decided to do a little more experimentation in order to try and achieve a Pasquale's like pizza.  Something is telling me that they don't use 100% mozzarella cheese but more than likely a blend.  I made a few pizzas where I used about 75% mozzarella and around 25% mild white cheddar and I thought the flavor was really good although the pizza was greasy.  I later determined that the grease was mostly due to the pepperoni ( just picked up a fresh 12.5 lb bag of margherita cup and char).  I would bet that some of the pizzerias in Buffalo that have more of a unique flavor use some sort of cheese blend.  I know that Bocce clearly states that they use 100 % Sorrento/Galbini mozzarella if that's what you're looking for.

I'll update this thread if I make any progress.
Title: Re: Trying to duplicate Buffalo, NY style pizza
Post by: aSliceofHeaven on February 17, 2020, 07:03:38 PM
What was your mixing process and baking temperature, and cook time?  Thanks
Decided to update this thread with a few pictures of one of my latest bakes.  The first pics are of a 17" pie and the second 2 pics are from a 16" pie. 

Here is the formula for 16":

Flour (100%):    382.49 g  |  13.49 oz | 0.84 lbs
Water (55%):    210.37 g  |  7.42 oz | 0.46 lbs
IDY (.63%):    2.41 g | 0.08 oz | 0.01 lbs | 0.8 tsp | 0.27 tbsp
Salt (2%):    7.65 g | 0.27 oz | 0.02 lbs | 1.37 tsp | 0.46 tbsp
Olive Oil (.5%):    1.91 g | 0.07 oz | 0 lbs | 0.42 tsp | 0.14 tbsp
Vegetable (Soybean) Oil (3.8%):    14.53 g | 0.51 oz | 0.03 lbs | 3.2 tsp | 1.07 tbsp
Sugar (2%):    7.65 g | 0.27 oz | 0.02 lbs | 1.92 tsp | 0.64 tbsp
Total (163.93%):   627.01 g | 22.12 oz | 1.38 lbs | TF = 0.11

After a recent trip up to Buffalo, I've decided to do a little more experimentation in order to try and achieve a Pasquale's like pizza.  Something is telling me that they don't use 100% mozzarella cheese but more than likely a blend.  I made a few pizzas where I used about 75% mozzarella and around 25% mild white cheddar and I thought the flavor was really good although the pizza was greasy.  I later determined that the grease was mostly due to the pepperoni ( just picked up a fresh 12.5 lb bag of margherita cup and char).  I would bet that some of the pizzerias in Buffalo that have more of a unique flavor use some sort of cheese blend.  I know that Bocce clearly states that they use 100 % Sorrento/Galbini mozzarella if that's what you're looking for.

I'll update this thread if I make any progress.
Title: Re: Trying to duplicate Buffalo, NY style pizza
Post by: shmigga on February 18, 2020, 08:33:15 AM
For mixing, I put all of the ingredients in the bowl and mixed on the lowest speed for about 8 minutes.  After it's done, I oiled the ball and put it in the fridge overnight.

For baking, preheat the oven and stone to 495 degrees.  Cover the pan with shortening then a little bit of olive oil.  Cook the pizza for about 12 minutes then remove from pan and place directly on stone for 30-45 seconds.  In this case, the dough was still cold from being in the fridge.

Hope that helps.
Title: Re: Trying to duplicate Buffalo, NY style pizza
Post by: aSliceofHeaven on February 19, 2020, 05:46:52 AM
Thanks so much! 
For mixing, I put all of the ingredients in the bowl and mixed on the lowest speed for about 8 minutes.  After it's done, I oiled the ball and put it in the fridge overnight.

For baking, preheat the oven and stone to 495 degrees.  Cover the pan with shortening then a little bit of olive oil.  Cook the pizza for about 12 minutes then remove from pan and place directly on stone for 30-45 seconds.  In this case, the dough was still cold from being in the fridge.

Hope that helps.
Title: Re: Trying to duplicate Buffalo, NY style pizza
Post by: matermark on February 19, 2020, 07:24:11 PM
Sorry I should have been more clear in my post.  The first two successful pizzas were cooked on two different days in two different ovens.  Three of the unsuccessful pies were cooked on one day in the same oven and the last unsuccessful pie was cooked on a different day in a different oven.  Sorry if this is confusing.  The pizza is only cooked on the stone for the last 30-60 seconds just to brown up the bottom of the pie.  The first 12-14 minutes its cooked on the pan.
I would divide the time like 70:30 or 75:25... The pan acts like an insulator until it reaches oven temp...if it does reach temp.

You're more like 93:7 pan:stone...
Title: Re: Trying to duplicate Buffalo, NY style pizza
Post by: shmigga on February 19, 2020, 07:46:03 PM
I would divide the time like 70:30 or 75:25... The pan acts like an insulator until it reaches oven temp...if it does reach temp.

You're more like 93:7 pan:stone...

I appreciate your response, but you are responding to a post that is nearly 5 years old.  I've figured out all my issues by now.  The problem back then was that I had let the dough over risen.  A Buffalo style pie is cooked on the pan for all but the last 30 seconds of the process.

Thanks again for your input!
Title: Re: Trying to duplicate Buffalo, NY style pizza
Post by: matermark on February 20, 2020, 01:46:04 AM
That's just your opinion.  Personally, I'm going for the Pasquale's look/taste as I don't care for Bocce/Imperial that much.  It's not going to "look" right if you don't have access to the correct pepperoni.
I'm Buffalo born & bred, still here, over 55 years. No offense intended. I wasn't referring to the pepperoni but mostly the thickness. Many looked even thicker than PH pan pizzas. Some corniciones looked thicker than leather steering wheels on Olds Bravadas or my S10 ZR2...

Also, many Buffalo pizzerias went sauce to the edge, C&P within 1/2 to 3/4 inch of the edge. I can't say what the N. Bailey or Amherst Bocce's did/do, I've only been to the S. Buffalo and French Rd (CheektaVegas) locations. Sorry, can't help you with Pasquale's, only had it from the Derby location once or twice ~25-30 years ago, the one near Steve's Pig & Ox Roast on Rt. 5...
Title: Re: Trying to duplicate Buffalo, NY style pizza
Post by: matermark on February 20, 2020, 02:01:48 AM
I appreciate your response, but you are responding to a post that is nearly 5 years old.  I've figured out all my issues by now.  The problem back then was that I had let the dough over risen.  A Buffalo style pie is cooked on the pan for all but the last 30 seconds of the process.

Thanks again for your input!
hey, glad you got your problems figured out. Oh, 5 years doesn't mean much to a Buffalonian! Besides, others are still looking them over. And as for stone time, none of the pizzerias I've ever worked at or had friends work at ever removed them from the pans for less than a few minutes, and my neighborhood's had about a dozen places in a 5 to 7 block radius--many more places than that over the years.
Title: Re: Trying to duplicate Buffalo, NY style pizza
Post by: shmigga on February 20, 2020, 08:43:13 AM
I'm Buffalo born & bred, still here, over 55 years. No offense intended. I wasn't referring to the pepperoni but mostly the thickness. Many looked even thicker than PH pan pizzas. Some corniciones looked thicker than leather steering wheels on Olds Bravadas or my S10 ZR2...

Also, many Buffalo pizzerias went sauce to the edge, C&P within 1/2 to 3/4 inch of the edge. I can't say what the N. Bailey or Amherst Bocce's did/do, I've only been to the S. Buffalo and French Rd (CheektaVegas) locations. Sorry, can't help you with Pasquale's, only had it from the Derby location once or twice ~25-30 years ago, the one near Steve's Pig & Ox Roast on Rt. 5...

No problem.  I can only think maybe two or three pizzerias out of the many I've been to that take their sauce and cheese to the edge.  That would be Bocce, Imerpial, and Leonardi's.  Can't think of many others that do that.  I don't know people think this is a Buffalo style thing when 3 out of the 400-500 pizzeria's in Buffalo do it.

I've watched many Buffalo pizzerias make pizza in person and on youtube, and none of them put the pizza's on the deck for longer than 30 seconds.  I've never done it (never found a need to) but I think it will burn and get too crispy if you do that.  Wouldn't hurt to try though.
Title: Re: Trying to duplicate Buffalo, NY style pizza
Post by: aSliceofHeaven on February 21, 2020, 11:38:57 AM
Hey, for the cheese are you using Sorrento (Galbani) whole milk?  Thanks again
For mixing, I put all of the ingredients in the bowl and mixed on the lowest speed for about 8 minutes.  After it's done, I oiled the ball and put it in the fridge overnight.

For baking, preheat the oven and stone to 495 degrees.  Cover the pan with shortening then a little bit of olive oil.  Cook the pizza for about 12 minutes then remove from pan and place directly on stone for 30-45 seconds.  In this case, the dough was still cold from being in the fridge.

Hope that helps.
Title: Re: Trying to duplicate Buffalo, NY style pizza
Post by: shmigga on February 21, 2020, 11:53:11 AM
Hey, for the cheese are you using Sorrento (Galbani) whole milk?  Thanks again

Yes, I use the restaurant grade whole milk mozzarella (Now labeled Galbani) and I get it from Restaurant Depot.  I've found that the stuff they sell in the grocery stores is too moist/wet.  I think it makes a huge difference if you can get access to the restaurant quality cheeses.
Title: Re: Trying to duplicate Buffalo, NY style pizza
Post by: Ogwoodfire on February 22, 2020, 11:21:58 PM
Sauce to the edge of the pizza is a Buffalo thing. Many more places used to use seasoned full sheet pans in the 70s, 80s and even 90s and sauced to the edge,  but places scrapped the seasoned sheet pans for cheaper aluminum round pans over time, places closed, and only a few of the original Buffalo style pizza places remained. The good ones still use a seasoned sheet pan, shred their own mozzarella (100% WM low moisture mozz) and cut pepperoni off the stick, thereís an attachment for automatic sliders that a few places still use. You have to remember when you are talking original Buffalo style pizza you are talking Bocce. Leonardis and Imperial were spin offs of Bocce in the 70s when the style was born. Prior to the 70s and Bocce Club, Buffalo style pizza wasnít much different than any style parlor pizza outside of NYC, New Haven, etc. Any place can now use redpack tomato and cup and char pepperoni but what makes it Buffalo style really is the moderate thickness, being cooked on seasoned sheet pans getting a bit oval with some crazy looking and not having any sort of cornicone. So many places are just cheap imitations
Title: Re: Trying to duplicate Buffalo, NY style pizza
Post by: Ogwoodfire on February 22, 2020, 11:31:48 PM
Even La Nova puts out pictures with no cornicone. Iíve seen local menus where the pizza goes right to the edge in the pictures but not reality. There are also a bunch of places that still have no crust and top right to the edge, mattinas, Francos, Picasso, and I can remember dozens more places that are gone from my childhood  that also topped right to the edge. People are using the round aluminum  pans with Crisco now which makes the pizzas stick when you top to the edge. Having toppings right to the edge has to be a characteristic of Buffalo style pizza otherwise itís really no different than any Midwest parlor pizza just with cup and char. So maybe there are only a handful of places still doing it the right way but just because it became a lost art out of laziness and cost savings doesnít change what the style is supposed to be. I realize hundreds of local places have a cornicone and use round aluminum pans now but I can honestly say Iíve never had one that has impressed compared to the few places that do it the old way. The way pant places do it now is just an inferior way to do it technique and flavor wise.
Title: Re: Trying to duplicate Buffalo, NY style pizza
Post by: shmigga on February 23, 2020, 12:03:07 AM
Even La Nova puts out pictures with no cornicone. Iíve seen local menus where the pizza goes right to the edge in the pictures but not reality. There are also a bunch of places that still have no crust and top right to the edge, mattinas, Francos, Picasso, and I can remember dozens more places that are gone from my childhood  that also topped right to the edge. People are using the round aluminum  pans with Crisco now which makes the pizzas stick when you top to the edge. Having toppings right to the edge has to be a characteristic of Buffalo style pizza otherwise itís really no different than any Midwest parlor pizza just with cup and char. So maybe there are only a handful of places still doing it the right way but just because it became a lost art out of laziness and cost savings doesnít change what the style is supposed to be. I realize hundreds of local places have a cornicone and use round aluminum pans now but I can honestly say Iíve never had one that has impressed compared to the few places that do it the old way. The way pant places do it now is just an inferior way to do it technique and flavor wise.

Totally disagree with you on taking the toppings out to the edge.  IMO, the places that take the cheese and sauce to the edge are overrated and aren't very good.  Especially Imperial, Bocce, and La Nova.  Picasso's used to be good but at least the location in West Seneca now uses a conveyor belt oven.  Last time I had it, I almost threw up it was so disgusting.  Franco's is also pretty bad. 

Most those places you mention are northtown's pizza shops.  Is that where you grew up?  I'm originally from the southtown's and always thought that the pizzeria's in the northtowns were no good.  I grew up going to places like Pasquale's, Blasdell Pizza, Nino's, Abbott Pizza, Molino's, LT's.  IMO, all of those place are way better (at least they were) than anything you could from Bocce or La Nova.
Title: Re: Trying to duplicate Buffalo, NY style pizza
Post by: Ogwoodfire on February 23, 2020, 09:13:45 AM
Yes I grew up in the northtowns but there are places in the south towns that do it as well Mainly imperial which once again spun off from Bocce. Now the point is Bocce Club is the definition of Buffalo style pizza. The places that spun off in the 70s defined the style, yes cup and char and the pasty sauce all spun from this wether they use a seasoned sheet pan or not. Now of course taste is subjective but thereís much more technique and flavor to using a seasoned sheet pan properly. My first Job was working for the Sacco family Bocce Iíve heard all the stories and history Bocce club is the originator of a buffalo pizza. I personally wouldnít ever eat Pasquales, Bella, Abbot ever again but I grew up eating REAL buffalo pizza. Why would a place like la Nova Print menus with toppings right to the edge and not do it in reality? Itís because even they know this is a characteristic of the style. I can agree with you one one thing, really none of these pizzerias are good anymore. I find the best example of Buffalo pizza is Mattinas on Sheridan Drive, proper ingredients and technique but even they have off days. If Buffalo style pizza is just unseasoned round aluminum pans is using redpack and cup and char really even a style, IMO thatís nothing, just standard American parlor pizza.
Title: Re: Trying to duplicate Buffalo, NY style pizza
Post by: Ogwoodfire on February 23, 2020, 09:38:40 AM
Overall weíre gonna have to agree to disagree but my point is the version of pizza we have seen in Buffalo over the last 20-25 years is a watered down version of what the style originated as. Call Bocce, Imperial overrated thatís fine I agree, but the techniques and ingredients they laid out are what everyone emulated in some way or another. Thereís a timeline to all of this, I did a lengthy research project in college which included research and interviews, pizza here has changed over time, so what defines the style? It canít just be cup and char pepperoni, the techniques have been lost over time, and thatís my point. At least a few places remain true to the sheet pan, sauce to edge, half or whole pizza. The only reason these things were forgotten is to cut corners and save money. You statement saying northtowns pizza is no good is just blasphemy weíre talking about places using the exact same ingredients with little variation, at least a few of these places still know what technique is.
Title: Re: Trying to duplicate Buffalo, NY style pizza
Post by: shmigga on February 23, 2020, 03:22:54 PM
I now understand why you have a different understanding of what Buffalo style Pizza is.  I've always thought that Buffalo had two styles of pizza.  The more common slightly thicker than thin pizza with a nice crispy cornicione, and the thicker, almost sicilian style pizza with little to no cornicione.  You are really missing out on not eating Pasquale's.  There was a time where the pizza wasn't as good, but they've gotten better.  I agree on Abbott (last time I had it a few years back, it was very bad), back when they were in their original spot and when a large was 18", they're pizza was great.  The funny thing is that I would often visit my friend over in South Buffalo who literally lived right down the street from Imperial and they would never eat there.  I would always ask them why and they would always say that their sauce was just tomato paste and the pizza wasn't any good...so we'd get pizza from Abbott instead (this is going back to the mid 90's).  If you ask my parents what good Buffalo style pizza is, they would say they loved Costa's in West Seneca.  It's funny how you say you grew up eating "REAL" Buffalo pizza, that's really just your opinion.  I grew up eating REAL Buffalo pizza too!  Those pictures you posted of La Nova actually show a small cornicione.

I'm not really sure how you can say that other's have emulated Bocce or Imperial since they themselves don't even use true cup and char pepperoni like 90% of the other area pizzerias.   I think it's just two different but very similar styles in one region.  I don't think it has anything to do with cost cutting.  I do agree that pizza has changed over the years, some better, some worse.



Title: Re: Trying to duplicate Buffalo, NY style pizza
Post by: matermark on February 23, 2020, 03:44:20 PM
I better go get some popcorn! :chef:

Back in the 1960's & earlier 1970's Frank's on Bailey north of Lovejoy sold a lot of halfers, maybe the only pizzeria in my neighborhood that I can think of that sold half pizza like Bocce. Yet my neighborhood was maybe better known for Pizza John's Knotted Bar on Lovejoy and his dandelion pizza. He was also known for putting his cheese on TOP.



Later when I worked at Poochie's, every sheetpan in the place was as black as coal!
Title: Re: Trying to duplicate Buffalo, NY style pizza
Post by: Ogwoodfire on February 25, 2020, 07:32:09 AM
Some interesting stuff there guys. There is a place called Bailey Ave pizza that is doing things the old way now.
Worth a look but my point remains doing things this way used to be more common and is the now forgotten as much of the origins of Buffalo style pizza, while surely not all places did this it was common and made the style unique. In regards to the paste sauce most places are using a heavy sauce like red pack or Bonta and the are watering it down from there to some degree. The pepperoni Bocce and many others also use is a combination of pre cut cup and char and pepperoni cut off the stick from Margherita or Battistoni, these are collagen cased pepperoni which do cup and char but often are cut oblong in someway and do not cup and char as much as the pre bagged version for some reason but they are the same pepperoni. My comment in regards to cost cutting was more about saving money through efficiency, you can fit a lot more 17Ē Round pans per deck than you can 18x26 sheet pans and that is why places began to make the switch or opened never using the sheet pans.
Title: Re: Trying to duplicate Buffalo, NY style pizza
Post by: matermark on February 25, 2020, 08:41:46 AM
Some interesting stuff there guys. There is a place called Bailey Ave pizza that is doing things the old way now.
Worth a look but my point remains doing things this way used to be more common and is the now forgotten as much of the origins of Buffalo style pizza, while surely not all places did this it was common and made the style unique. In regards to the paste sauce most places are using a heavy sauce like red pack or Bonta and the are watering it down from there to some degree. The pepperoni Bocce and many others also use is a combination of pre cut cup and char and pepperoni cut off the stick from Margherita or Battistoni, these are collagen cased pepperoni which do cup and char but often are cut oblong in someway and do not cup and char as much as the pre bagged version for some reason but they are the same pepperoni. My comment in regards to cost cutting was more about saving money through efficiency, you can fit a lot more 17Ē Round pans per deck than you can 18x26 sheet pans and that is why places began to make the switch or opened never using the sheet pans.


So is that the place we were wondering about somewhere near the Expressway overpass on the west side of Bailey? I remember as a teen going for a ride with a friend to pick up a pizza up on Bailey, I was too young to drive back then but vaguely remember it would have been north of Delevan. It wasn't Poochie's---Poochie's moved from the old Frank's (Bailey between Lovejoy & Bogardus) to Bailey around Alma St, a couple blocks north of St. Gerard's. Many, many years ago there used to be a speed shop (hi-perf auto parts store) on the corner... Mernan Chevrolet was a couple blocks up from St Gerard's on the right---all gone now... the mystery place was past Mernan's on the other side of the street...
Title: Re: Trying to duplicate Buffalo, NY style pizza
Post by: Ogwoodfire on March 04, 2020, 07:41:37 AM
Hard to say how long this place has been open. Itís is a close to where you mention and does use many of the traditional Buffalo techniques.
Title: Re: Trying to duplicate Buffalo, NY style pizza
Post by: BUFtoPDX on May 07, 2020, 11:00:11 AM
Hello Shmigga! I've been following this thread for a few days now in my attempts to recreated home pizza. The pictures you posted most recently look just about perfect for me. I do have a few questions.
-After mixing, did you let it rise before you refrigerated overnight?
-If i want to cold ferment for 72 hours, do I just let it rise indefinitely? Do I need to punch it down at any point?
-When you take out of the fridge do you let it come to room temp before stretching or do you stretch cold?
-How long do you let rise before you top it and cook it?

I appreciate all of your help and contributions!

For mixing, I put all of the ingredients in the bowl and mixed on the lowest speed for about 8 minutes.  After it's done, I oiled the ball and put it in the fridge overnight.

For baking, preheat the oven and stone to 495 degrees.  Cover the pan with shortening then a little bit of olive oil.  Cook the pizza for about 12 minutes then remove from pan and place directly on stone for 30-45 seconds.  In this case, the dough was still cold from being in the fridge.

Hope that helps.
Title: Re: Trying to duplicate Buffalo, NY style pizza
Post by: cola__st on May 20, 2020, 05:19:12 PM
Hey there-
Canadian that has been shut out of America by the pandemic. Previously, I had been going across into Buffalo weekly for pizza and wings. I canít find a proper pie on my side of the border.
When the border closed, I knew it was gonna be a while, so I started trying to make it myself... or at least as close as I could get.
Iíve been following this thread, as well as the one posted by OG Woodfire. Itís been full of a lot of great info.
Having been unable to get exact ingredients Iíve had to work with what I can come across.
I have made several pies since this started- but the one I did last night was the first one that felt like I was at Bocce Club or something. Working loosely off the recipes/preparations in this thread, but making some modifications to taste, Iím very happy with my results.
Feels good to make something like this from scratch.
Sorry if this is a lot of pics.
Title: Re: Trying to duplicate Buffalo, NY style pizza
Post by: matermark on May 21, 2020, 01:38:36 PM
I am a Buffalonian and haven't bought a Buffalo pizza with mushrooms on it in probably over 30-40 years. Back then many places used canned mushrooms which when cooked turned a dark olive green with black edges! I don't know what the Buffalo Big Three used, fresh or canned, but many corner pizzerias used canned.
Title: Re: Trying to duplicate Buffalo, NY style pizza
Post by: cola__st on May 21, 2020, 08:11:11 PM
I am a Buffalonian and haven't bought a Buffalo pizza with mushrooms on it in probably over 30-40 years. Back then many places used canned mushrooms which when cooked turned a dark olive green with black edges! I don't know what the Buffalo Big Three used, fresh or canned, but many corner pizzerias used canned.

The mushrooms were for my wife- haha. I just got better pics of that one.
Hereís the second pie without.

Went 550 for about 8 minutes. Donít currently have a stone to deck it.
I think it needs like.. one more minute or so in the oven. Get a bit more melt on that cheese. Crust and everything was nice.


Title: Re: Trying to duplicate Buffalo, NY style pizza
Post by: 1moreSlice on May 22, 2020, 03:15:57 PM
I am trying to make a great Buffalo style pizza as well.  I am quite surprised that nobody has mentioned what I think was the best Buffalo pizza by far, Leonardi's.  Unforunately they closed on 12/29/19, well I guess not so unfortunate since what has happened since.  I think they closed because the founders were getting old and nobody in the family wanted to do it anymore .  Whenever I went there, there was always a line out the door. Myself and many people I know were shocked and heartbroken when they closed.

I like others in the thread feel that Bocce's has been living off the reputation for a very long time. They really haven't been consistent in 20 years.  Where you make get a 1/2 chance of your Bocce's pie being a homerun, at Leonardi's it was better than 9/10.

So that is why I am here. I recently bought a stone and a bunch of flour and I am going to get to work. I made a NY style a couple weeks ago that turned out pretty good.

I do have one question though. Should I be using hi-gluten flour for these pies?  I having much cooking experience but I am a pizza making novice. I am using all purpose flour currently but I was going to order a 50 lb bag of the hi-gluten if it makes a big difference. 

Title: Re: Trying to duplicate Buffalo, NY style pizza
Post by: matermark on May 22, 2020, 03:52:15 PM
A bread flour is a good start if you don't wanna go all in on some All Trump or Sir Lancelot. You can add Vital Wheat Gluten to raise your flour to 14-14.5%. I bought a 25lb bag of 12.5% and added VWG when I divided up the bag into individual 16oz zipper-lock bags, now hi-gluten bags ready to go... I don't have the #s but there is a calculator or a link to one on this site, I'm still on the original bags from over a year ago, maybe 9 or 10 left...
Title: Re: Trying to duplicate Buffalo, NY style pizza
Post by: matermark on May 22, 2020, 03:56:56 PM
The mushrooms were for my wife- haha. I just got better pics of that one.
Hereís the second pie without.

Went 550 for about 8 minutes. Donít currently have a stone to deck it.
I think it needs like.. one more minute or so in the oven. Get a bit more melt on that cheese. Crust and everything was nice.

Looks good, maybe a couple more minutes to golden the cheese and burn the pepperoni cup edges...
Title: Re: Trying to duplicate Buffalo, NY style pizza
Post by: cola__st on May 24, 2020, 05:16:05 PM
Looks good, maybe a couple more minutes to golden the cheese and burn the pepperoni cup edges...

Iíve got two different types of pep on here. Battistoni, which I found through a butcher here thatís importing direct from Buffalo. Only available pre-sliced, but thatís what ya see cupping on the pizza. I also have some Venetian from Hamilton on there, which Iím cutting right from the stick. Less cup on that stuff.
I did a couple pies with straight Battistoni pep, which all curl up nicely- but I find the taste to be a bit strong in large amounts. The Venetian is a bit milder and mellows it out a bit.
Title: Re: Trying to duplicate Buffalo, NY style pizza
Post by: cola__st on May 31, 2020, 11:50:06 PM
Gave it another go yesterday. Very happy with this one. Really tasted like a pie right out of Buffalo.
Title: Re: Trying to duplicate Buffalo, NY style pizza
Post by: rebeccasa on June 08, 2020, 05:08:10 PM
After contemplating making Buffalo pizza for quite some time I just made my first pies last night.  It was so yummy and my Buffalo audience said it was spot on!  Thanks to everyone on this site for lots of advice and pointers.  I ordered 5 lbs of Ezzo Supreme pepperoni from the Pennsylvania Macaroni Company and portioned the bag for enough for each pie (4.8 oz for 14 inch pie) and put them in the freezer for next time.  I used the recipe in the Buffalo, NY cookbook as follows.  It has been posted on this site before.  I did make everything exactly (with the exception of sauce as noted) but adjusted all the ingredients for two 14 inch pies since I can't fit the 18 inch ones in my oven. The sauce recipe doesn't make sense so I used a full can of tomato paste and added enough extra crushed tomatoes to equal the two cups it says it makes.  Also I took someones advice cooked on pan for shorter (9 minutes for me) and only left it on my stone for 1 minute.  I didn't have hi gluten flour so I made my own by adding gluten to AP flour using calculator I found online.

Buffalo pizza
(From The Buffalo New York Cookbook, The Countryman Press, 178 pages, $19.95)

Buffalo pizza dough

Prep Time: 25 hours (15 minutes active); Yield: 2 dough balls

0.24 ounce active dry yeast
28.8 ounces warm water (80 to 85įF)
3 pounds (48 ounces) high- gluten flour
0.96 ounce sugar
0.96 ounce sea salt
1.4 ounces shortening
Add yeast to a large bowl. Add water and whisk to blend. Pour into stand mixer bowl. Add flour and mix on slow. Sprinkle in sugar. After 2 minutes add salt. You may have to stop and scrape the sides to help dough come together. Restart mixer. After 2 more minutes, add shortening and mix 3 minutes.
Remove dough to a clean bowl, cover with a clean damp cloth, and let rise for 45 minutes. Cut into two balls, place on a cookie sheet, cover with plastic wrap, and refrigerate for 24 hours.
Take dough out 1 hour before use.
Buffalo pizza sauce

Yield: 2 cups sauce (enough for two 18- inch pizzas)

3 teaspoons extra virgin olive oil
1 ounce tomato paste
1 cup water
1 teaspoon garlic powder
1 teaspoon onion powder
Ĺ teaspoon dried oregano
Ĺ teaspoon dried basil (or minced fresh)
ľ teaspoon freshly ground black pepper
2 teaspoons sugar
1 teaspoon kosher salt
Add olive oil to a large saucepan on low heat. Add tomato paste and water. Stir to thoroughly combine.
Add the rest of the ingredients, stir to combine, and simmer for 10 minutes. Turn off heat and let cool.
Buffalo pizza

Yield: Two 18- inch pizzas
1 cup bench flour
2 rounds Buffalo Pizza Dough (see recipe above)
8 teaspoons shortening
2 cups Buffalo Pizza Sauce (see recipe above)
42 ounces shredded mozzarella
4 teaspoons olive oil (optional)
⅔ cup sesame seeds, onion powder, garlic powder, Cajun spice, or Parmesan (optional)
1 pound sliced pepperoni (preferably Margherita)
Preheat oven to its highest setting, preferably 550įF. Place pizza steel in the oven. After it reaches 550įF, keep oven closed for 1 hour.
If you have advanced pizza dough moves, this is where to show them off. If you donít, cheat. Generously dust dough ďbenchĒ with flour (about Ĺ cup). Turn one dough round in on itself underneath to form a ball. Press down in the center and push out toward the edges repeatedly while also moving the dough in a circle clockwise for 15 seconds. Lift dough, dust the surface with flour, flip dough, then stretch from the center out to the edge while turning the dough in a circle for 2 minutes, and forming a slightly raised lip. Repeat until pizza is as wide as the pan and even throughout beyond the edge.
Use a paper towel to grease the entire surface of an 18- inch pizza pan with shortening (4 teaspoons). Place dough on pan and stretch out to arrange it so it reaches out a hair shy of the panís edge.
Ladle up to 1 cup of sauce from the center out in a spiral until itís evenly spread out over the dough up to ľ inch of the edge. If youíre making it Bocce Club style, ladle the sauce over the edge of the crust.
Evenly spread 21 ounces of cheese over the sauced dough. If youíre making it Bocce style, let the cheese cover the entire surface of the dough, including the crust. If youíre making it La Nova style, leave the crust rim cheese- free. You can either leave things at that or brush optional olive oil (2 teaspoons per pizza) along the rim and sprinkle sesame seed, onion powder, garlic powder, Cajun spice, or Parmesan on the crust Ĺ inch from the edge toward the center all the way around.
Evenly distribute half the pepperoni so that when you cut the pie in 8 slices there are 10 to 13 slices of pepperoni on each one. If there doesnít seem to be room, just do your best to pile them in between each otheró the pepperoni will shrink as it cooks and things will fall into place. Donít worry if things donít look exactly symmetrical. Controlled cup- and- char chaos is the effect youíre going for. If youíre making it Bocce style, make sure you have some pepperoni on the cornicione!
Place pan in oven for 10 minutes. Slide pizza off pan onto the steel and cook 2 to 3 minutes. Slide pie back onto the pan, cut into 8 slices, and serve.
Repeat for the second pie.
Title: Re: Trying to duplicate Buffalo, NY style pizza
Post by: Little bean on June 08, 2020, 05:39:12 PM
This looks really good, you might be a ringer.
Title: Re: Trying to duplicate Buffalo, NY style pizza
Post by: PizzaMark on June 10, 2020, 07:22:32 PM
After contemplating making Buffalo pizza for quite some time I just made my first pies last night.  It was so yummy and my Buffalo audience said it was spot on!  Thanks to everyone on this site for lots of advice and pointers.  I ordered 5 lbs of Ezzo Supreme pepperoni from the Pennsylvania Macaroni Company and portioned the bag for enough for each pie (4.8 oz for 14 inch pie) and put them in the freezer for next time.  I used the recipe in the Buffalo, NY cookbook as follows.  It has been posted on this site before.  I did make everything exactly (with the exception of sauce as noted) but adjusted all the ingredients for two 14 inch pies since I can't fit the 18 inch ones in my oven. The sauce recipe doesn't make sense so I used a full can of tomato paste and added enough extra crushed tomatoes to equal the two cups it says it makes.  Also I took someones advice cooked on pan for shorter (9 minutes for me) and only left it on my stone for 1 minute.  I didn't have hi gluten flour so I made my own by adding gluten to AP flour using calculator I found online.

Buffalo pizza
(From The Buffalo New York Cookbook, The Countryman Press, 178 pages, $19.95)

Buffalo pizza dough

Prep Time: 25 hours (15 minutes active); Yield: 2 dough balls

0.24 ounce active dry yeast
28.8 ounces warm water (80 to 85įF)
3 pounds (48 ounces) high- gluten flour
0.96 ounce sugar
0.96 ounce sea salt
1.4 ounces shortening
Add yeast to a large bowl. Add water and whisk to blend. Pour into stand mixer bowl. Add flour and mix on slow. Sprinkle in sugar. After 2 minutes add salt. You may have to stop and scrape the sides to help dough come together. Restart mixer. After 2 more minutes, add shortening and mix 3 minutes.
Remove dough to a clean bowl, cover with a clean damp cloth, and let rise for 45 minutes. Cut into two balls, place on a cookie sheet, cover with plastic wrap, and refrigerate for 24 hours.
Take dough out 1 hour before use.
Buffalo pizza sauce

Yield: 2 cups sauce (enough for two 18- inch pizzas)

3 teaspoons extra virgin olive oil
1 ounce tomato paste
1 cup water
1 teaspoon garlic powder
1 teaspoon onion powder
Ĺ teaspoon dried oregano
Ĺ teaspoon dried basil (or minced fresh)
ľ teaspoon freshly ground black pepper
2 teaspoons sugar
1 teaspoon kosher salt
Add olive oil to a large saucepan on low heat. Add tomato paste and water. Stir to thoroughly combine.
Add the rest of the ingredients, stir to combine, and simmer for 10 minutes. Turn off heat and let cool.
Buffalo pizza

Yield: Two 18- inch pizzas
1 cup bench flour
2 rounds Buffalo Pizza Dough (see recipe above)
8 teaspoons shortening
2 cups Buffalo Pizza Sauce (see recipe above)
42 ounces shredded mozzarella
4 teaspoons olive oil (optional)
⅔ cup sesame seeds, onion powder, garlic powder, Cajun spice, or Parmesan (optional)
1 pound sliced pepperoni (preferably Margherita)
Preheat oven to its highest setting, preferably 550įF. Place pizza steel in the oven. After it reaches 550įF, keep oven closed for 1 hour.
If you have advanced pizza dough moves, this is where to show them off. If you donít, cheat. Generously dust dough ďbenchĒ with flour (about Ĺ cup). Turn one dough round in on itself underneath to form a ball. Press down in the center and push out toward the edges repeatedly while also moving the dough in a circle clockwise for 15 seconds. Lift dough, dust the surface with flour, flip dough, then stretch from the center out to the edge while turning the dough in a circle for 2 minutes, and forming a slightly raised lip. Repeat until pizza is as wide as the pan and even throughout beyond the edge.
Use a paper towel to grease the entire surface of an 18- inch pizza pan with shortening (4 teaspoons). Place dough on pan and stretch out to arrange it so it reaches out a hair shy of the panís edge.
Ladle up to 1 cup of sauce from the center out in a spiral until itís evenly spread out over the dough up to ľ inch of the edge. If youíre making it Bocce Club style, ladle the sauce over the edge of the crust.
Evenly spread 21 ounces of cheese over the sauced dough. If youíre making it Bocce style, let the cheese cover the entire surface of the dough, including the crust. If youíre making it La Nova style, leave the crust rim cheese- free. You can either leave things at that or brush optional olive oil (2 teaspoons per pizza) along the rim and sprinkle sesame seed, onion powder, garlic powder, Cajun spice, or Parmesan on the crust Ĺ inch from the edge toward the center all the way around.
Evenly distribute half the pepperoni so that when you cut the pie in 8 slices there are 10 to 13 slices of pepperoni on each one. If there doesnít seem to be room, just do your best to pile them in between each otheró the pepperoni will shrink as it cooks and things will fall into place. Donít worry if things donít look exactly symmetrical. Controlled cup- and- char chaos is the effect youíre going for. If youíre making it Bocce style, make sure you have some pepperoni on the cornicione!
Place pan in oven for 10 minutes. Slide pizza off pan onto the steel and cook 2 to 3 minutes. Slide pie back onto the pan, cut into 8 slices, and serve.
Repeat for the second pie.

Nice writeup. Did it compare to any Buffalo staples in your opinion?
Title: Re: Trying to duplicate Buffalo, NY style pizza
Post by: 1moreSlice on June 10, 2020, 09:31:08 PM
My first try with the hi gluten flour and after reading this and the other thread started by og. I didn't have the cup or char pepperoni so I cut what I had thick. Dough turned out great. I just need to make it thicker next time.

Title: Re: Trying to duplicate Buffalo, NY style pizza
Post by: rebeccasa on June 10, 2020, 10:11:17 PM
Nice writeup. Did it compare to any Buffalo staples in your opinion?

To be honest I'm not from Buffalo and haven't been in a few years but my husband who's from Buffalo says it was def on par with his favorites.  He went to Picasso's a few month ago on a visit and said it was as good.  I thought it was really good! I wouldn't change anything that I can think of.
Title: Re: Trying to duplicate Buffalo, NY style pizza
Post by: 1moreSlice on June 14, 2020, 01:57:09 PM
This is my 2nd attempt last night. I made the dough thicker but it was more of a Chicago deep dish than a Buffalo style this time around. It was really good though. I will have the Buffalo thickness next time. I did it on a 13" pan but have a 16" coming which I think will give me that Buffalo thickness. I used a straight Bonta based sauce which is good but I want to have a great sauce.

I have a lot of cooking experience but had never made a pizza until about a 6 weeks ago. Now I honestly can say I think I would rather have my own pie than Bocce's. I live right around the corner from them and they have been terribly inconsistent for a long time. Leonardi's was a great pie 9.5/10 times. Bocce's is more of a 1/2. Now that Leonardi's is closed I will have to keep working until I have a Leonardi's level pie. I have a little work to do on the sauce but my dough I think is there. I'm not sure what the difference between Leonardi's and Bocce's sauces are/were, they are very similar but they are not the same sauce. IMO Leonardi's was better.

Title: Re: Trying to duplicate Buffalo, NY style pizza
Post by: CupnCharRoni on June 23, 2020, 02:18:50 PM
Moved this post over to here: https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=42106.msg628590#msg628590

Seems like that thread is more about recreating the authentic taste and style that has been deviated from.
Title: Re: Trying to duplicate Buffalo, NY style pizza
Post by: chunk28 on July 12, 2020, 04:07:42 PM
Hey I live just across the pa line 30 min se of Erie and my favorite pizza shop uses battistoni cup and char itís really good and has a little spice to it I believe you can get it online
Title: Re: Trying to duplicate Buffalo, NY style pizza
Post by: matermark on July 13, 2020, 11:54:48 PM
I KNOW THERE'S A LOT OF TALK ABOUT CUP & CHAR, I looked thru some old bookmarks and found a Serious Eats test of stick pepperoni here:

https://slice.seriouseats.com/2013/01/taste-test-pepperoni-sticks.html

It looks like it's from 2013, but it has some good points. It was a taste test.

Embedded in this article was this, about pepperoni curling:

https://slice.seriouseats.com/2012/12/the-pizza-lab-why-does-pepperoni-curl.html

Hope this helps!
................................
Title: Re: Trying to duplicate Buffalo, NY style pizza
Post by: matermark on July 23, 2020, 10:53:20 AM
This just out in this week's back issue of PMQ Pizza Magazine, October 2019:

The Key Features of Buffalo-Style Pizza...

Here's an excerpt:

Defining Buffalo-Style

According to Patrick Kaler, president and CEO of Visit Buffalo-Niagara, four key features define the Buffalo style of pizza. ďFirst, it doesnít have your normal outer crust,Ē Kaler says. ďThe sauce and toppings go all the way to the edge of the pizza. The sauce has a little sweeter taste to it. The pepperonis are cup-and-char. As for the cheeseóyou have to have that perfect cheese pull on it, so when you pull the slice off the pie, the cheese is really trying to fight you.Ē

In a nutshell, Bovino adds, ďItís a Detroit amount of cheese, with a Motor City trim, a Maine undercarriage, and a New York City soul.Ē

But cup-and-char pepperoni is perhaps the true defining feature of Buffalo-style pizza. Once ubiquitous across the country, these delectable mini-grails of goodness fell out of favor nationally over time before making a comeback in recent years. Alternately known as ďroni cupsĒ or ďOld World pepperoni,Ē they never went out of style in Buffalo. ďIf you want to say that Buffalo didnít invent this pizza style, that everybody was doing it back then, thatís fine,Ē Bovino says. ďBut no one else has been doing it like Buffalo has in the past 30 years. Buffalo is the curator of this style of pepperoni.Ē


 https://www.pmq.com/a-bite-of-buffalo-style-pizza


Title: Re: Trying to duplicate Buffalo, NY style pizza
Post by: matermark on August 21, 2020, 08:43:36 PM
Margherita Stick, hand-sliced...
Title: Re: Trying to duplicate Buffalo, NY style pizza
Post by: Cragganmore17 on August 24, 2020, 11:53:33 PM
For a rectangular pizza, are people hand stretching to shape and then laying out the dough in a greased pan or plopping the dough ball in a greased pan and pushing it out like a sicilian? 
Title: Re: Trying to duplicate Buffalo, NY style pizza
Post by: cola__st on August 30, 2020, 07:55:32 PM
Been doing a pizza every week or so over the last little while. Been changing things slightly each time.
Iím really happy with how this one turned out.
Title: Re: Trying to duplicate Buffalo, NY style pizza
Post by: 02ebz06 on August 31, 2020, 12:25:51 PM
Nice!!!
Is that a really large pizza or are those really tiny pepperoni slices?
Sure is a lot of slices.
Title: Re: Trying to duplicate Buffalo, NY style pizza
Post by: matermark on August 31, 2020, 12:58:13 PM
I would guess each rack is 12x17 or 13x18.
Title: Re: Trying to duplicate Buffalo, NY style pizza
Post by: cola__st on September 02, 2020, 09:17:21 PM
Nice!!!
Is that a really large pizza or are those really tiny pepperoni slices?
Sure is a lot of slices.

Itís a 18Ē pie. Doing it on a round aluminum pan, greased with lard. I let the oven heat up on 525 for about an hour and, then I put the pan on stones in the bottom of the oven for about 12 minutes, then up to the top rack on broil for about 2 minutes for some colour.
My oven is gas, which is nice, but it is not convection so Iím having some difficulty with getting a nice melt on the cheese.
The pepperoni is Venetian from Hamilton, ON. Making it work with what I can find up here in Canada. I was using Battistoni early on but found it to get a bit too crisp/was a little spicy. This Venetian is really smooth and has a great flavour, with a slight bit of kick to it.
Flour for the dough is Ardent Mills ďSuper KeynoteĒ Strong Bakers Flour. Cheese is Saputo Deluxe Pizza cheese which I get at costco. I tried about a dozen cheeses before settling on this one. I make the sauce with San Marzano tomatoes.
Overall, Iím learning a lot every week. Having never made a pizza before March, I think Iíve come a long way. Plus, itís doing a lot to keep me sane until I can get back stateside for some proper pies.
This whole thing has got me considering opening a place up here.
Title: Re: Trying to duplicate Buffalo, NY style pizza
Post by: cola__st on October 25, 2020, 11:04:04 PM
I think Iím finally ďthereĒ in terms of taste and execution. Itís been almost 8 months since Iíve had a Buffalo pie, so my gauge may be off a bit- but this is tasting just like a something Iíd be able to get from Bocce on a good day.

Posts on my Instagram have generated quite a bit of interest. Lots of people asking me where they can get one.. so Iím gonna start doing small runs of take-out orders out of my house over the winter. Nice new hobby.
Title: Re: Trying to duplicate Buffalo, NY style pizza
Post by: matermark on October 27, 2020, 03:44:53 AM
Just a heads up un Cup & Char, even Amazon is now selling it, a little pricey though...
https://www.amazon.com/Buffalo-Style-Char-Spicy-Pepperoni/dp/B07R2DQ58Z/

By the way, I never knew this but I went down Dingens off Bailey and I drove by a Battistoni building, maybe a warehouse, it's on the right side if coming from Bailey... hope this helps, especially Canadians coming over the Peace Bridge... get off at Bailey/Clinton exit, turn right on Clinton, right on Bailey, right on Dingens.
Title: Re: Trying to duplicate Buffalo, NY style pizza
Post by: shmigga on December 30, 2020, 08:58:34 PM
Been a while since I posted anything and wanted to post a few pics of a pie I made recently.  I've shifted my focus on to trying to replicating a Picasso's pie and I think I've got it pretty close.  If anyone knows the blend of their magic season's...that would be awesome if you could share!  Right now I'm using romano, garlic powder and oregano.  Tastes pretty good!

I'm working on getting a larger pizza stone so right now I'm using a 16" square pan.  I plan on making a Picasso's large (15x20" I believe).  I've posted a pic of a Picasso's pizza for those who aren't familiar.
Title: Re: Trying to duplicate Buffalo, NY style pizza
Post by: shmigga on December 30, 2020, 09:00:09 PM
I think Iím finally ďthereĒ in terms of taste and execution. Itís been almost 8 months since Iíve had a Buffalo pie, so my gauge may be off a bit- but this is tasting just like a something Iíd be able to get from Bocce on a good day.

Posts on my Instagram have generated quite a bit of interest. Lots of people asking me where they can get one.. so Iím gonna start doing small runs of take-out orders out of my house over the winter. Nice new hobby.

That pizza looks awesome!  Nice job.
Title: Re: Trying to duplicate Buffalo, NY style pizza
Post by: shmigga on December 30, 2020, 09:06:03 PM
Just a heads up un Cup & Char, even Amazon is now selling it, a little pricey though...
https://www.amazon.com/Buffalo-Style-Char-Spicy-Pepperoni/dp/B07R2DQ58Z/

By the way, I never knew this but I went down Dingens off Bailey and I drove by a Battistoni building, maybe a warehouse, it's on the right side if coming from Bailey... hope this helps, especially Canadians coming over the Peace Bridge... get off at Bailey/Clinton exit, turn right on Clinton, right on Bailey, right on Dingens.

Good to know! You can also get it right from their website which might be a better deal for some...

http://battistonibrand.com/products/buy-salami-online/
Title: Re: Trying to duplicate Buffalo, NY style pizza
Post by: machineman on January 08, 2021, 10:47:01 AM
I must say I shed a tear of joy when I came across this forum, and this thread!

I have been thinking about pursuing this for years, to the point where I even offered to double match his pay if my 17 year old nephew would get a job at Bocce and infiltrate for me :)

Thank you @shmigga for starting it and keeping up on it with your experimentation and progress - I would love to know your latest and greatest recipe!

@cola__st - I think your quarantine attempts look amazing too, would love to know your current recipe!

From browsing the thread, it seems the most important ingredient is the dough (or, is the most important to prepare correctly, at least) to get the right crust. And I would agree, the more I think about it. That certain thickness with just enough crisp and hopefully enough structure to hold it up a bit without being super floppy.

I am anxious to try the sauce attempts as well, though this seems more well-controlled. I am ready to finally replace the garlicky crud we find around here with some sweeter sauce!

Still trying to procure the holy grail pepperoni here in Florida more easily though...

My initial question is the prep and pan. I remember watching the guys at Bocce use super-seasoned pans (of what matieral? Are they regular aluminum sheet pans? They looked thicker.) And then they all take it out of the pan and put in on the deck for a few minutes at the end.

What temperature are those ovens? I see 550 tossed around here, I am not sure if my home oven goes that high... are the beck oven in pizzerias hotter than that?

From the looks of it though, you guys are nailing it and far closer to Buffalo pizza than I would have imagined we could get! I am looking forward to hopping on the train and posting any pics of my successes (or failures)!



Title: Re: Trying to duplicate Buffalo, NY style pizza
Post by: mwkorona on January 08, 2021, 07:13:15 PM
Longtime browser, finally joined. Buffalo transplant to Vegas in need of good pizza for the Bills game tomorrow. Had ordered from Picasso's via goldbelly a couple months ago but the pizza all had the dreaded gumline so that was very disappointing. Usually I make detroit style or thin crust in an ooni, but trying my hand at my real love of buffalo pizza. Made the dough last night, but been reading about spraying with warm water during proofing on pan. I am very nervous about a gum line and it seems like moisture is a common reason - for those of you who have sprayed with water, do you think this contributes to any gum line issues?

Just in case anyone cares, here is what I got going:
484g Caputo 00 Chef's Flour (internet says its 13.5% protein)
281g water (58%) (85-90degree)
9.6g salt (2%)
9.6g sugar (2%)
1.7g IDY (.035%)
3g diastatic malt powder (Litner rating 60)

Hand mixed and kneaded. 20min rest, balled, fridge for 36 hour CF. Planning to take out 3-4 hours before baking, will let rest RT 1-2 hours, stretch out on greased (crisco)   18" pan and leave for final proof 1-2 hours longer before topping and baking.

I do have a pizza stone that will stay in the oven but its too small to put the pizza on at any stage, so it will stay in the pan the whole time. Was planning to preheat to 500 but then thinking of lowering it after the pizza goes in to make sure the dough has time to cook through.

Hopefully will have a success and will post pics tomorrow, Go Bills!
Title: Re: Trying to duplicate Buffalo, NY style pizza
Post by: mwkorona on January 11, 2021, 12:58:58 PM
Here is what I ended up with. It was okay but not the result I was looking for. My crust was tough - I think using the 00 chef's flour may be the cause, other research has indicated it is meant to be used at high heat and can be tough at lower temps. I think I will try again with King Arthur Bread Flour next.

The dough also was not distributed how I would like, I wanted little/no corcione and slightly thicker base throughout, but when stretching I ended up with a very clear ring. Any tips for stretching but keeping the dough uniform throughout the whole pie?

(see my recipe in post above if interested)

Title: Re: Trying to duplicate Buffalo, NY style pizza
Post by: matermark on January 11, 2021, 11:29:38 PM
This may sound weird, but I'm not a great tosser/thrower, so when I get it stretched out pretty close, I cover the pizza with a heavyweight plastic wrap and roll it out to where I want it to be. The plastic virtually slows the dough from snapping back, and I can use a rolling pin or even smaller items like jelly or oil jars if I'm making pizzas in pans...

I've never used 00 so can't comment on that though I read years ago it's suggested to be used with temps over 800F.

Hope this helps.
Title: Re: Trying to duplicate Buffalo, NY style pizza
Post by: mwkorona on January 19, 2021, 09:09:06 PM
I did end up getting some high gluten flour from Costco (Ardent Mills - Kyrol) and was much more pleased with the results - it was much closer to back home and did not have the toughness issue. I did up the cheese too which helped. And I think I made the sauce a little sweeter than desired. Crust was more evenly shaped but perhaps a bit thin, so may either up the doughball or make smaller (used 800g dough ball for 18" pan, ~.11 TF). Did have to put it back in the oven when we tried to cut into it as there was significant undercooking in the middle, so it got a little toastier than I expected, but overall was happy.
Title: Re: Trying to duplicate Buffalo, NY style pizza
Post by: AdroitRider on January 24, 2021, 10:27:52 AM
I attempted this crust after reading page one of the thread. Wife and kids were impressed.

I agree with others that shared the dough texture isnít quite right, e.g. not Ďgreasyí soft. I will try a bit more moisture and shorter cook time with an actual stone (mine broke when removing it from hot grill to cold grill surface last year).

For the pepperoni, Hormel makes a cup and crisp that is available at many grocers. Easy and simple.
Title: Re: Trying to duplicate Buffalo, NY style pizza
Post by: matermark on January 24, 2021, 05:52:10 PM
Can you point to the Hormel pepperoni maybe with a link or pic of it? Every Hormel pepperoni I've ever seen was too thin to be close to what we use in Buffalo & Buffalo-style pizza. Thanks.
Title: Re: Trying to duplicate Buffalo, NY style pizza
Post by: machineman on January 24, 2021, 06:09:53 PM
Can you point to the Hormel pepperoni maybe with a link or pic of it? Every Hormel pepperoni I've ever seen was too thin to be close to what we use in Buffalo & Buffalo-style pizza. Thanks.

Iíve never been able to find it at my grocery stores in Orlando but here it is:


https://hormel.com/Brands/Pepperoni/Pizza-Party/HORMEL-Pepperoni-Cup-N-Crisp-Bold
Title: Re: Trying to duplicate Buffalo, NY style pizza
Post by: AdroitRider on January 24, 2021, 07:29:14 PM
Can you point to the Hormel pepperoni maybe with a link or pic of it? Every Hormel pepperoni I've ever seen was too thin to be close to what we use in Buffalo & Buffalo-style pizza. Thanks.

This is still thin, def not close to buffalo thick, but appearance is good. Flavor isnít bad.
Title: Re: Trying to duplicate Buffalo, NY style pizza
Post by: matermark on January 25, 2021, 10:30:00 AM
Thanks! Never seen that in stores anywhere yet...
Title: Re: Trying to duplicate Buffalo, NY style pizza
Post by: AdroitRider on January 25, 2021, 02:10:38 PM
Thanks! Never seen that in stores anywhere yet...

In Marianos (Kroger) it is available in the packaged lunch meat coolers. I had to ask...
Title: Re: Trying to duplicate Buffalo, NY style pizza
Post by: machineman on January 25, 2021, 04:27:22 PM
As I begin to prep for my first go-round with an attempt, had a few more nagging questions for you guys!

- Water - Do you guys subscribe to the "there's something in the water" philosophy? Like, is there something about Buffalo water... or NYC water... that meaningfully contributes to those crust styles? Is it pH levels? Mineral balance? Old wives tales? :)

- Flour - High Gluten seems to be the choice - I haven't seen mention of bromate or bleached though? Specifically, seems like bromate might be desirable for Buffalo dough?

- Oven Position - I have a consumer oven, and I'm not sure how hot it goes... but I am assuming, I want it as hot as can be. Do we recommend low rack, mid rack or high rack? (low rack, crisper crust? high rack, crispier pepperoni?)

- Convection - Further, would you recommend convection mode for baking the pizza?

- Cheese - Ever hear of anyone using sliced mozzarella? I could have swore growing up in Buffalo (north towns, Clarence) that the transit Boccee did that, but I may be hallucinating.

- Yeast - Is there a material difference in the outcome in your opinion? IDY or ADY?


Title: Re: Trying to duplicate Buffalo, NY style pizza
Post by: mrmetelitz on February 02, 2021, 07:46:49 PM
Been a while since I posted anything and wanted to post a few pics of a pie I made recently.  I've shifted my focus on to trying to replicating a Picasso's pie and I think I've got it pretty close.  If anyone knows the blend of their magic season's...that would be awesome if you could share!  Right now I'm using romano, garlic powder and oregano.  Tastes pretty good!

I'm working on getting a larger pizza stone so right now I'm using a 16" square pan.  I plan on making a Picasso's large (15x20" I believe).  I've posted a pic of a Picasso's pizza for those who aren't familiar.

This looks absolutely incredible and what I am looking to replicate.  Would you be willing to share your dough recipe with bakers percentages?
Title: Re: Trying to duplicate Buffalo, NY style pizza
Post by: machineman on February 02, 2021, 08:04:34 PM
Surprised to see a Buffalo pizza attempt show up on a fairly mainstream food channel, maybe its finally getting its due :)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0pnsU0-kGDA

He doesn't really hit the mark, but does talk about the things he should have done, such as the pepperoni situation.
Title: Re: Trying to duplicate Buffalo, NY style pizza
Post by: matermark on February 03, 2021, 08:52:21 AM
Do you have a link to the original recipe page? Thanks.
Title: Re: Trying to duplicate Buffalo, NY style pizza
Post by: machineman on February 09, 2021, 10:20:52 AM
I wasn't sure which thread to post this in, so I actually posted in the other:

https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=42106.msg659166#msg659166

My first 2 attempts (with the same dough batch, just an extra day of cold ferment and a few tweaks apart) came out pretty good! I added the process and notes in the link above.

Title: Re: Trying to duplicate Buffalo, NY style pizza
Post by: BocceFan1 on February 24, 2021, 05:51:33 PM
Great thread! I grew up on Bailey Avenue Bocce's Pepperoni and have been trying for some time to replicate it. My sauce is off, but thanks to you guys the dough is really close. I've been using Ezzo Supreme pepperoni and have been pretty happy with the results.
Title: Re: Trying to duplicate Buffalo, NY style pizza
Post by: mike77 on March 01, 2021, 06:12:28 PM
Gave this a go, as I was craving some Bocce's.  I followed the dough recipe from the Buffalo Cookbook and that's posted in the thread.

I did two versions, each with All Trumps High Gluten.  One that I made right away, the other the dough sat in the fridge for 48 hours. Honestly, no difference. Think I need more yeast.  Thoughts?

The sauce 50/50 Bonta/Water (still looking for Redpack here in Atlanta).  I added some sugar and salt as Ogwoodfire recommended. I also sprinkled some dry oregano and basil directly on the dough. I greased the pan in Crisco. I decked it for 3 minutes at the end (waiting on my steel to get delivered).  Pepperoni is thick cut Margherita that I managed to find at Wal-mart.

Happy with the end results. If I can get the dough more airy, I'll be pretty happy.

I'm also working on a Pizza Oven version from Lockport. I'll post some photos of that down the road.
Title: Re: Trying to duplicate Buffalo, NY style pizza
Post by: AdroitRider on March 03, 2021, 04:37:42 PM
Finally nailed my goal with this style.  I have always thought the recipe was second to the cooking method and for me that is very true.  I typically use the same recipe and try different pans and I have a post a while ago about this journey.  Yesterday I tried my typical recipe:

30oz KABF
18oz water (60% hydration)
.6 oz salt (2%)
.6oz sugar (2%)
1.8oz vegetable shortening (6%)
2oz active dry yeast (1 pkt)

My pizza was never cooking on the bottom with the aluminum pans since they dont really absorb the heat.  I solved that by using a slab of baking steel on the rack and letting it get to 500 before i slide the pizza on there.  The top typically doesn't cook either and it leaves a soft almost soggy result.  The baking steel box suggest placing a baking stone on the rack above to almost make a commercial oven (obviously not quite at hot as commercial) but the stone radiated the heat to cook the toppings. 

I wouldnt change a thing except i would use less toppings.  I tend to go overboard on cheese and toppings but that is easy to correct moving forward.

Is this for two 16Ē pizzas or one full sheet? What size sheet?
Title: Re: Trying to duplicate Buffalo, NY style pizza
Post by: AdroitRider on March 04, 2021, 07:42:57 PM
Went 475 to start and cooked a bit longer. Tried two different pans. A 16Ē pizza pan dark grey and two 9Ē aluminum cake pans. I did increase the temp to 500 while I was opening the oven to manage three pies.

The texture is more buttery greasy melty.

The dark pan cooked efficiently and through. The cake pans were too insulating or something. Took more time to cook.

I ordered a steel bake deck off Amazon for $65 and look forward to using it.
Title: Re: Trying to duplicate Buffalo, NY style pizza
Post by: shmigga on March 05, 2021, 09:42:17 AM
Hey,  I see that you said that you tried a recipe on the first page...give this one a shot.  You will have to scale it down as this is normally what I'd use for an 18" pizza.

Flour (100%):    483.64 g  |  17.06 oz | 1.07 lbs
Water (55%):    266 g  |  9.38 oz | 0.59 lbs
IDY (.63%):    3.05 g | 0.11 oz | 0.01 lbs | 1.01 tsp | 0.34 tbsp
Salt (2%):    9.67 g | 0.34 oz | 0.02 lbs | 1.73 tsp | 0.58 tbsp
Olive Oil (.2%):    0.97 g | 0.03 oz | 0 lbs | 0.21 tsp | 0.07 tbsp
Vegetable (Soybean) Oil (3.8%):    18.38 g | 0.65 oz | 0.04 lbs | 4.05 tsp | 1.35 tbsp
Sugar (1.5%):    7.25 g | 0.26 oz | 0.02 lbs | 1.82 tsp | 0.61 tbsp
PZ-44 (1%):    4.84 g | 0.17 oz | 0.01 lbs | 2.05 tsp | 0.68 tbsp  - You can just omit this
Total (164.13%):   793.8 g | 28 oz | 1.75 lbs | TF = .11


This is a recipe I came up with a few years back and I like the results.  It's posted in this thread but is buried unfortunately. I've used the other recipe posted from the "Buffalo Cookbook" many times too.  It's not bad, but I've had issue with the bottom of the dough getting soggy after baking.

My normal process is preheat oven and stone to 495 (or higher).  Spread the dough out on a crisco greased pan and bake for about 12-13 minutes.   I usually like to leave it in just a little bit longer than you think you should.  I think take it off the pan and put it directly on the stone for 30 seconds or so...just keeping an eye on the bottom and making sure it doesn't burn.  You may also need to play around with the rack position in your oven. 

Hope this helps.  Here is a pic of a pizza I made a long time ago using the recipe above...

Title: Re: Trying to duplicate Buffalo, NY style pizza
Post by: shmigga on March 05, 2021, 09:44:46 AM
One thing that I forgot to mention is that after you spread the dough out on the pan, you may want to let it sit and rise for 30 minutes or longer depending on the temp of the dough.  I've found that if the dough is too cold, it may not puff up in the oven.   If you let it sit too long (like a few hours) and let it rise, the dough will fail in the oven and become a gummy disgusting mess.
Title: Re: Trying to duplicate Buffalo, NY style pizza
Post by: mike77 on March 05, 2021, 05:39:12 PM
Thanks. Giving it a try this weekend.  Dough is proofing right now.  Like last time, it doesnít seem to be increasing in size too much.  Does Red Star IDY not rise as much or something?
Title: Re: Trying to duplicate Buffalo, NY style pizza
Post by: shmigga on March 05, 2021, 05:47:39 PM
Thanks. Giving it a try this weekend.  Dough is proofing right now.  Like last time, it doesnít seem to be increasing in size too much.  Does Red Star IDY not rise as much or something?

It takes a good amount of time for the dough to increase in size.  I usually mix it the night before and put it right in the fridge after mixing.  By the next day, it's usually about 1.5x bigger or so.  I don't usually make pizza the same day I mix the dough...but maybe your house is cold right now?
Title: Re: Trying to duplicate Buffalo, NY style pizza
Post by: AdroitRider on March 05, 2021, 06:07:55 PM
Thanks Shmigga. I tried the Falls4life dough and it came out great. With that dark grey pan lower temp is key.

The cake pans worked good for kids but I needed to grease them more as one pizza got stuck. I canít wait for the steel deck!!!

The dough should double. I do mine in a bread maker, then two day cold ferment. Dough needs to be room temp to stretch properly and fill the pan. If you toss the dough it can be a little cold but itís hard to get it to fill the pan.
Title: Re: Trying to duplicate Buffalo, NY style pizza
Post by: shmigga on March 05, 2021, 06:33:41 PM
Adetroitridee, the baking steel is going to help a lot!  I usually spread out my dough when it's cold...works well with my recipe.  I would not toss the dough for a Buffalo style pizza. 


Looking forward to pics of your pie using the steel!
Title: Re: Trying to duplicate Buffalo, NY style pizza
Post by: machineman on March 05, 2021, 09:05:51 PM
I'm looking to score a darker sheet pan of some sort, some say that the shiny aluminum ones prevent the browning of the crust?

Also, I am trying to figure out how not to get the edges of the pizza to stick... I use a liberal amount of lard, but wherever the sauce/cheese spills over onto the pan, it's like welded there :) Luckily the crust/dough does not stick once I pry the edges up. This is preventing me from decking the pie for a few minutes after cooking.

The lard does wonders though for flavors, and in fact my last attempt I larded up a sheet of parchement paper and did the pizza on that, on a sheet pan. I feel like that's cheating and I probably lost something in the process... !
Title: Re: Trying to duplicate Buffalo, NY style pizza
Post by: AdroitRider on March 05, 2021, 09:49:09 PM
I have no problem with cheese or sauce sticking to the darker non stick pan. But, at the higher temps the crust cooks fast and darkens. I dialed the temp down and it was great.
Title: Re: Trying to duplicate Buffalo, NY style pizza
Post by: jtfarr03 on January 05, 2022, 11:08:40 AM
Hey,  I see that you said that you tried a recipe on the first page...give this one a shot.  You will have to scale it down as this is normally what I'd use for an 18" pizza.

Flour (100%):    483.64 g  |  17.06 oz | 1.07 lbs
Water (55%):    266 g  |  9.38 oz | 0.59 lbs
IDY (.63%):    3.05 g | 0.11 oz | 0.01 lbs | 1.01 tsp | 0.34 tbsp
Salt (2%):    9.67 g | 0.34 oz | 0.02 lbs | 1.73 tsp | 0.58 tbsp
Olive Oil (.2%):    0.97 g | 0.03 oz | 0 lbs | 0.21 tsp | 0.07 tbsp
Vegetable (Soybean) Oil (3.8%):    18.38 g | 0.65 oz | 0.04 lbs | 4.05 tsp | 1.35 tbsp
Sugar (1.5%):    7.25 g | 0.26 oz | 0.02 lbs | 1.82 tsp | 0.61 tbsp
PZ-44 (1%):    4.84 g | 0.17 oz | 0.01 lbs | 2.05 tsp | 0.68 tbsp  - You can just omit this
Total (164.13%):   793.8 g | 28 oz | 1.75 lbs | TF = .11


This is a recipe I came up with a few years back and I like the results.  It's posted in this thread but is buried unfortunately. I've used the other recipe posted from the "Buffalo Cookbook" many times too.  It's not bad, but I've had issue with the bottom of the dough getting soggy after baking.

My normal process is preheat oven and stone to 495 (or higher).  Spread the dough out on a crisco greased pan and bake for about 12-13 minutes.   I usually like to leave it in just a little bit longer than you think you should.  I think take it off the pan and put it directly on the stone for 30 seconds or so...just keeping an eye on the bottom and making sure it doesn't burn.  You may also need to play around with the rack position in your oven. 

Hope this helps.  Here is a pic of a pizza I made a long time ago using the recipe above...

Would you use the same size dough ball for a standard half sheet pan? Also, do you have a picasso's style sauce recipe?
Title: Re: Trying to duplicate Buffalo, NY style pizza
Post by: shmigga on January 05, 2022, 11:15:10 AM
Would you use the same size dough ball for a standard half sheet pan? Also, do you have a picasso's style sauce recipe?

What size pan are you using?  The best thing to do would be to use the dough calculator on this site to make a new recipe using either the thickness factor of .11 or desiree dough ball weight.  If doing by weight, the total area of an 18" pizza is 254 inches.  So if you figure out the total area of your pan, you can scale the recipe down or up based on the area of 254 equalling the weight in the recipe I provided.  Plug in the weight of the new dough ball you're making and all of the percentages for the ingredients and you will have scaled the recipe to work for your pan.
Title: Re: Trying to duplicate Buffalo, NY style pizza
Post by: matermark on January 05, 2022, 04:49:03 PM
A half sheet pan = 234 sq.in. using 13 x 18". It may be a little thicker, or you can pull off a knob of dough to make a hand pie sized roll or calzone or pocket pizza... or some breadsticks.
Title: Re: Trying to duplicate Buffalo, NY style pizza
Post by: lciaccia on April 04, 2022, 06:31:11 PM
Hey,  I see that you said that you tried a recipe on the first page...give this one a shot.  You will have to scale it down as this is normally what I'd use for an 18" pizza.

Flour (100%):    483.64 g  |  17.06 oz | 1.07 lbs
Water (55%):    266 g  |  9.38 oz | 0.59 lbs
IDY (.63%):    3.05 g | 0.11 oz | 0.01 lbs | 1.01 tsp | 0.34 tbsp
Salt (2%):    9.67 g | 0.34 oz | 0.02 lbs | 1.73 tsp | 0.58 tbsp
Olive Oil (.2%):    0.97 g | 0.03 oz | 0 lbs | 0.21 tsp | 0.07 tbsp
Vegetable (Soybean) Oil (3.8%):    18.38 g | 0.65 oz | 0.04 lbs | 4.05 tsp | 1.35 tbsp
Sugar (1.5%):    7.25 g | 0.26 oz | 0.02 lbs | 1.82 tsp | 0.61 tbsp
PZ-44 (1%):    4.84 g | 0.17 oz | 0.01 lbs | 2.05 tsp | 0.68 tbsp  - You can just omit this
Total (164.13%):   793.8 g | 28 oz | 1.75 lbs | TF = .11


This is a recipe I came up with a few years back and I like the results.  It's posted in this thread but is buried unfortunately. I've used the other recipe posted from the "Buffalo Cookbook" many times too.  It's not bad, but I've had issue with the bottom of the dough getting soggy after baking.

My normal process is preheat oven and stone to 495 (or higher).  Spread the dough out on a crisco greased pan and bake for about 12-13 minutes.   I usually like to leave it in just a little bit longer than you think you should.  I think take it off the pan and put it directly on the stone for 30 seconds or so...just keeping an eye on the bottom and making sure it doesn't burn.  You may also need to play around with the rack position in your oven. 

Hope this helps.  Here is a pic of a pizza I made a long time ago using the recipe above...

Where have you landed on your sauce recipe?

Thanks!