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  • #1 by sanpedros on 13 Jan 2022
  • Hi Guys !
    So,my name is Peter,i've got my own Pizza place in Germany ( i started it a year ago,so i'm a newbie)  , and i wanted to ask You a question,cause i'm really concerned about my dough last weeks and the number of customers at my place.
    So,the problem is, that my dough is nothing crunchy on the bottom,and it is too soft inside. Im baking pizza on black pizza trays like this (https://www.gastro-gigant.de/media/image/d4/4d/8c/ID_2422_orig_600x600.jpg),and to make the dough i'm using :
    4600 ml/ 155,54 oz water
    something about 100 ml /3,38 oz of olive oil
    1 L / 33,81 oz milk
    11 kg / 24.25 Pounds flour
    400 g / 0.88 lbs salt
    200 g / 0.44 lbs sugar
    32 g / 0.07 fresh yeast
    then i'm cutting the dough into balls,let them sit for about an hour, then i roll the balls directly onto pizza trays( before i roll them up, i wrap them in semolina ) ,i let it refrigerate for 1 day in about 5 C = 41 F,and i bake it the next day in the oven at 380 C = 716 F .
    And to be honest,my dough ist really soft inside,like bread. It cant hold the toppings well, and it isn't really enjoyable to work with...
    I would like to still work with the black trays,because i find them good to prepare,and fast to work with.
    Can anybody help me with it,and maybe share some good tips,that i can try?
    Best greetings from Germany
    Peter
  • #2 by Pizza_Not_War on 13 Jan 2022
  • Newbie section is not the best place to ask questions.

    Milk and oil in dough seem to be counterproductive unless you want soft crust.
  • #3 by sanpedros on 14 Jan 2022
  • Thanks for quick answer ! Could You maybe help me a little bit to navigate on the forum, and tell me,where should i put this type of question ?
    I will definitely try today to make a dough without milk,maybe it will help somehow.
  • #4 by 9slicePie on 14 Jan 2022
  • Newbie section is not the best place to ask questions.

    uhh,, actually, it's the best place to ask questions.
  • #5 by Pizza_Not_War on 14 Jan 2022
  • Thanks for quick answer ! Could You maybe help me a little bit to navigate on the forum, and tell me,where should i put this type of question ?
    I will definitely try today to make a dough without milk,maybe it will help somehow.
    https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?board=65.0
  • #6 by wotavidone on 15 Jan 2022
  • Peter, I've never worked in a pizza shop, and I don't do a lot of pizzas on trays. Well, none really.
    So, I'll forgive you if you ignore everything I write. :-D

    But.........
    You've got 4600 mL or 4600g of water.
    1000mL of milk, which will still give you around 1000g water
    100mL of oil.
    Say in total 5700 g of liquid, give or take.
    Then you are adding that to 11,000g of flour.
    Hydration, if you include the oil, is 51.8%.
    If you don't include the oil in the calculation, it's 50.9%
    That is, to me, a quite dry dough. So far, I have not yet met a flour that isn't happier at 60%. Most of the flours I have had anything to do with would hardly form a decent doughball at 51% hydration.
    Then, you are adding 400g salt for 11,000g flour. That's 3.6% salt, which to my way of thinking is quite a bit.

    You don't say what sort of style you are attempting, how big the doughballs, how far you stretch them, how long you cook for, etc., but I don't think you are giving your yeast much of a chance to do its thing. 400g of salt in 5600 water is going to be a bit dehydrating to the yeast cells, I reckon. It makes the liquid component of your dough twice as salty as a standard sea water.

    Also, 0.29% fresh yeast is rather low, I think. Someone who uses fresh yeast will contribute, I'm sure.
    Consider a more conventional dough with say at least 60% hydration,  2.5% salt, yeast as suits you for the time you wish to ferment the dough.

  • #7 by amolapizza on 17 Jan 2022
  • I agree with all the previous advice.

    It's however difficult without some more descriptions of how you make the pizza, doughball weight, and what style of pizza you are going for.  Photos of the process and the finished pizza would also greatly help.
  • #8 by Yael on 18 Jan 2022
  • Hi Peter,

    If I may, let's start with converting your recipe into a formula, which will bring more regularity.

    That would be:
    Flour 100%
    Water 41.82%
    Milk 9.1%
    total hydration 50.92% only
    Salt 3.64%
    Sugar 1.82%
    CY 0.291%
    Olive oil 0.83% (1000ml = around 920g)

    Well, as Mick said above...

    I would start from scratch with this following formula:
    Flour 100%
    Water 60% (+/-2%)
    Milk POWDER 2~3%
    CY 0.3~0.5%
    Sugar 1.8~2%
    Salt 2~2.5%
    EVOO 2~3%

    Then CF on the pan 24H as you're doing, and 3~4H before baking take it out from the fridge and let it ferment at RT (thickness should double), or in a proofer if you have one; then bake as usual. Let us know if you try.
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