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Author Topic: High Gluten vs Bread Flour  (Read 753 times)

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Offline Rainier42

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High Gluten vs Bread Flour
« on: January 17, 2022, 05:36:13 PM »
With the cold weather and back to experimenting.  Up to now, my go-to flour was KA High Gluten flour.  Am now experimenting with KA Bread Flour and may try some other brands.  What do you all use - i.e., High Gluten or Bread Flour, and why?
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Offline Pizza_Not_War

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Re: High Gluten vs Bread Flour
« Reply #1 on: January 17, 2022, 05:41:00 PM »
I prefer high gluten but can use KA organic bread flour and just decrease fermentation time. Central milling is my best choice but I am always trying new flour to make it more difficult on myself. :-D. Always organic for me.

Offline Rainier42

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Re: High Gluten vs Bread Flour
« Reply #2 on: January 17, 2022, 07:49:16 PM »
I prefer high gluten but can use KA organic bread flour and just decrease fermentation time. Central milling is my best choice but I am always trying new flour to make it more difficult on myself. :-D. Always organic for me.

I haven't tried Central Milling flours but am willing to give them a go.  Which ones do you prefer?  Also, it looks like they are pre-malted ... I assume this eliminates the need to add sugar or low diastatic malt.
Simone family eating chant:  Mangia mangia mangia, can mangia no more then mangia some more!

Offline Pizza_Not_War

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Re: High Gluten vs Bread Flour
« Reply #3 on: January 17, 2022, 08:20:48 PM »
Organic High Mountain or the 00 reinforced are the two I mostly use from them. You can also get the AP at some Costco locations.

I don't believe they have malt in them. The regular BF has malt.

Offline Jackitup

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Re: High Gluten vs Bread Flour
« Reply #4 on: January 18, 2022, 03:09:09 AM »
Kyrol HG is awesome, near bullet proof! It is bromated, may be an issue for some, but not me, great flour!
Jon

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Offline Turk

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Re: High Gluten vs Bread Flour
« Reply #5 on: February 01, 2022, 02:32:01 PM »
I've been using King Arthur Bread Flour (KABF) for a while for recipes from Peter Reinhart's "American Pie". 

This is my first time trying the Master Class from Tony Gemignani's "Pizza Bible": it calls for high-gluten flour, then fermenting for total of 48 hours (24 hours bulk, degass & divide, then put in fridge another 24 hours).

I'm going to be using the KABF for the Master Classes. 

Any issue with using the lower-protein KABF, any suggested adjustments (shorter fermentation, etc.?). 

Thanks, Turk.

Offline Pizza_Not_War

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Re: High Gluten vs Bread Flour
« Reply #6 on: February 01, 2022, 04:11:00 PM »
Organic High Mountain or the 00 reinforced are the two I mostly use from them. You can also get the AP at some Costco locations.

I don't believe they have malt in them. The regular BF has malt.
To correct myself the AP Central Milling at Costco is malted.

Offline politon

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Re: High Gluten vs Bread Flour
« Reply #7 on: February 01, 2022, 04:59:27 PM »
I've been using King Arthur Bread Flour (KABF) for a while for recipes from Peter Reinhart's "American Pie". 

This is my first time trying the Master Class from Paul Gemignani's "Pizza Bible": it calls for high-gluten flour, then fermenting for total of 48 hours (24 hours bulk, degass & divide, then put in fridge another 24 hours).

I'm going to be using the KABF for the Master Classes. 

Any issue with using the lower-protein KABF, any suggested adjustments (shorter fermentation, etc.?). 

Thanks, Turk.

With KABF, I would recommend doing a series of stretch and folds immediately after dividing. 2 or 3, 45 minutes apart. This will develop the gluten network and give it strength similar to HG flour.

Offline Turk

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Re: High Gluten vs Bread Flour
« Reply #8 on: February 01, 2022, 05:18:09 PM »
With KABF, I would recommend doing a series of stretch and folds immediately after dividing. 2 or 3, 45 minutes apart. This will develop the gluten network and give it strength similar to HG flour.

Thanks Politon: I'll give that a try.

Offline Turk

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Re: High Gluten vs Bread Flour
« Reply #9 on: February 04, 2022, 05:42:36 PM »
Thanks Politon: I'll give that a try.
So my first attempt with the Master Class from Tony Gemignani's "Pizza Bible" was a great learning experience, dough was light with a bit of crispiness on the bottom, first time I EVER had a nice chewy edge.  SO DELICIOUS that my wife ate ALL THE CRUST (and she would never eat the edges, aka "pizza bones" for any of the pizzas I made from Reinhart's "American Pie").

So the only bad news was that I was denied the pizza bones this time  :chef:

Only issue was that the dough was VERY STICKY getting it out of the bowl and onto the countertop for rolling out.  Was able to manage fine with a rubber scraper and plenty of flour/cornmeal, but is a sticky dough normal?

Thanks, Turk.

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Offline politon

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Re: High Gluten vs Bread Flour
« Reply #10 on: February 04, 2022, 06:41:20 PM »
So my first attempt with the Master Class from Tony Gemignani's "Pizza Bible" was a great learning experience, dough was light with a bit of crispiness on the bottom, first time I EVER had a nice chewy edge.  SO DELICIOUS that my wife ate ALL THE CRUST (and she would never eat the edges, aka "pizza bones" for any of the pizzas I made from Reinhart's "American Pie").

So the only bad news was that I was denied the pizza bones this time  :chef:

Only issue was that the dough was VERY STICKY getting it out of the bowl and onto the countertop for rolling out.  Was able to manage fine with a rubber scraper and plenty of flour/cornmeal, but is a sticky dough normal?

Thanks, Turk.

Booyah !! Congrats, Turk!

As I recall, Tony's formula is ~65% which is right on the cusp of when KABF can begin to feel sticky. It takes practice. You could always lower it to ~61% and that would probably solve it until you get used to the higher hydration.

I recommend using rice flour, or mochiko flour (sweet rice flour) as bench flour. It will take a lot less to get rid of the sticky feeling than standard wheat flour.

Offline misterschu

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Re: High Gluten vs Bread Flour
« Reply #11 on: March 01, 2022, 10:55:05 AM »
I've been using King Arthur Bread Flour (KABF) for a while for recipes from Peter Reinhart's "American Pie". 

This is my first time trying the Master Class from Tony Gemignani's "Pizza Bible": it calls for high-gluten flour, then fermenting for total of 48 hours (24 hours bulk, degass & divide, then put in fridge another 24 hours).

I'm going to be using the KABF for the Master Classes. 

Any issue with using the lower-protein KABF, any suggested adjustments (shorter fermentation, etc.?). 

Thanks, Turk.

I'm not familiar with either of these recipes, what are the differences between them?

Offline Turk

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Re: High Gluten vs Bread Flour
« Reply #12 on: March 01, 2022, 11:54:04 AM »
I'm not familiar with either of these recipes, what are the differences between them?

Tony is precise, Peter is not.

Sorry I can't get into details now, but basically Peter Reinhart's recipes are basically "throw it all in and mix", whereas Tony's Pizza Bible gives a very detailed list of procedures and ingredients for making pizzas.

Variations include Tony uses Diastatic Malt, higher-gluten flour and finely-ground sea salt (plus 2-day ferment); Peter Reinhart uses bread flour, honey and coarser Kosher salt (and 1-day ferment). 

Using Tony's method definitely made a difference, for the first time I had a nice chewy edge instead of leather (or cracker-like) edge even with bread flour.

Last week I got some high-gluten flour (Giusto's High Performer High Protein), and it was pure heaven with a very light and chewy edge  in my 450 degree oven :chef:


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