Lloyd Pans Sticking Even With Crisco

[Pizzabobs143]

Also what helps with the sticking is flouring your dough makes it way easier to stretch out and helps with the sticking tremendously.

[Pizzabobs143]

Pans attached

[waltertore]

What size are your pans?   You might want to check our pans out.   We just released them, and they are 22 gauge cold rolled steel and the same ones we use in our pizza with no sticking.  They weight 34.5 ounces, are the same as the now defunct Allied Metal Spinning pans, and give great even bakes and will last a lifetime.

https://www.swhenterprises.com/

[PizzaGarage]

Pans attached

What tools are you using to remove the pizza from these pans?

[waltertore]

What tools are you using to remove the pizza from these pans?

We use a long handle black plastic spatula to get our Sicilians out of the pans - like you use to turn things at home.  It works great. 

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07ZLDZ2V2/?tag=pmak-20

[shawkyns]

Just ordered Walters pans..  Cant wait to try them. never done a grandma style before, but I have been using the Detroit Steel pans for awhile making DSP, and they work so much better than the old lloyds I was using before.  If you want to make DSP, I would try the steel over Al any day of the week.

[shawkyns]

forgot to say I use a combo of butter and oil in the pan before I put the dough in.  grease it up with the butter on all sides including the corner creases, then a tablespoon or so of oil on top before putting the dough in.  usually pops right out without any problem.

[waltertore]

Just ordered Walters pans..  Cant wait to try them. never done a grandma style before, but I have been using the Detroit Steel pans for awhile making DSP, and they work so much better than the old lloyds I was using before.  If you want to make DSP, I would try the steel over Al any day of the week.

Thanks for trying our pans and we look forward to what you think.  The 22 gauge cold rolled steel heats steady and evenly.  Aluminum heats fast and uneven. They fall apart quickly as well when used in a commercial setting.  Our pans, like the sadly gone Allied Metal Spinning pans, will last multiple life times in home and commercial use.  In the long run a much cheaper purchase over aluminum and the thin steel pans out there today. 

[Puzzolento]

I'm not clear on why people use steel pans for pan pizza. I bought some, and they were useless. They didn't heat up fast enough to brown anything well. I ended up using seasoned aluminum quarter sheets.

I just made a Sicilian with very sticky dough, and I deliberately stuck cheese on the rim so it would burn against the pan. It popped right out, as they usually do.

On another board, I posted a photo of the tool I use to remove Sicilians from pans. It's made from a 14" pizza tray. Works like a dream. I'll repost the photo here.

I can't imagine using a scraper. They're made to scrape, after all. A scraper will take seasoning right off. So will a metal spatula. A silicone spatula won't scrape, but there is no way you can lift a pie with one. My tool cost $5.75, it will support an entire 9" x 13" pie, and it won't scrape the pan.

I cut it on my table saw and bent it in a Moxon vise. You can do it with primitive tools, though. A jigsaw should work. Just be sure to sand the edges of the tool after you make it.

[waltertore]

I'm not clear on why people use steel pans for pan pizza. I bought some, and they were useless. They didn't heat up fast enough to brown anything well. I ended up using seasoned aluminum quarter sheets.

I just made a Sicilian with very sticky dough, and I deliberately stuck cheese on the rim so it would burn against the pan. It popped right out, as they usually do.

On another board, I posted a photo of the tool I use to remove Sicilians from pans. It's made from a 14" pizza tray. Works like a dream. I'll repost the photo here.

I can't imagine using a scraper. They're made to scrape, after all. A scraper will take seasoning right off. So will a metal spatula. A silicone spatula won't scrape, but there is no way you can lift a pie with one. My tool cost $5.75, it will support an entire 9" x 13" pie, and it won't scrape the pan.

I cut it on my table saw and bent it in a Moxon vise. You can do it with primitive tools, though. A jigsaw should work. Just be sure to sand the edges of the tool after you make it.

Glad you like your pans   If had an Allied Metal Spinning pan you would understand steel, They have been the staple of NY/NJ/PA/CT for 75 years and some pizzerias are still using the original pans from 75 years ago. 

[Puzzolento]

I didn't realize this was in Shop Talk. Perhaps if I were a restaurateur and wanted peak durability, I would try to find a way to make steel work. Plenty of professional bakers use sheet pans, though.

I bought aluminum sheet pans, as well as steel pans, while I was trying to duplicate New York Sicilian, with which I am very familiar. The steel pans didn't cut it. They just didn't brown well or create crunchy crusts. My aluminum pans make the best pies I've ever eaten anywhere, and they don't stick. The crusts are crunchy, and I can get them as brown as I want.

No professional shop I've tried has ever come close to my pies. I have no reason to ever buy a Sicilian pizza again, because I know I do it better.

The pans I got may well be from Allied. They are the same pans I saw in New York pizzerias. That's where I got the idea I needed them.

They are mild steel, 12" square, with thick wire in the rims. I bought them from a pizza supply company. They look exactly like the Allied BB1212. They are sitting in my cupboard behind some cake pans I never use. They have been unused for about 13 years because they didn't compare to sheet pans. I'll post a photo.

I tried to throw my steel pans out, but I felt bad about it after spending money on them, so they sit and collect dust. I considered giving them away, but I don't know what they're good for. When I teach people how to make Sicilian, I tell them to buy what I bought.

I see them selling for $28 each, which is crazy. A quarter sheet, made from aluminum, which is costlier than steel, is around 5 bucks. Granted, it's a little smaller, but it also has more edge per unit of area, and nobody wants a slice with no edges! Everyone hates those inner slices. Also, you don't have to worry about aluminum rusting. I just clean the oil off and put mine away. My steel pans got wet at some point, so if I ever learn of a reason to use them, I'll have to sand them and re-season.

I'm sure steel pans have their virtues, though. If you say they're great, I'm sure they are, for the right people.

[woodfiredandrew]

After reading all the comments about Lloyds, I feel like i got lucky with 'em. i seasoned it once when purchased and never had any issues since. i was thinking about buying lot more ...now that thought got put on hold
Thanks...
Andy

[machada]

Hi everyone, thanks for all the feedback. Here’s an update on my situation. I tested out a couple of pans from Detroit style pizza co and I couldn’t get them to work properly in my oven. I think they’re just too slow to heat up as the bottoms were too light, whereas the ones cooked in the Lloyd pans immediately after on the same deck were perfect. I think my oven just can’t dump enough btu’s to use steel pans.

I did have a great improvement with the Lloyd pans . I switched from shortening back to olive oil and it improved greatly. Still have a bit of sticking around the cheese crown but much improved.. that said I called Lloyds for a quote and their prices went up 25% since last year. I decided to think about it. But they shipped the order without my authorization!!!  $2k I Order…

Unfortunately I don’t think Walter’s Sicilian pans would help me. My decks are only 20” wide so I usually can fit 2 Detroit per deck. If I used a 12 x 12 that would limit me to only one pan per deck.

What I’ve noticed with the Lloyd’s is that they’re really not meant to be seasoned. In fact , the mfr says that excessive fat buildup can impede the release. So we’ve been washing with soap and water every other use and it’s improved things greatly. In the in between uses we wipe and scrape and oil again.

[machada]

Update to the update. After using olive oil exclusively for about a month, I’ve seen further improvement with the pans releasing. We’ve been washing them after every use which Lloyd’s recommends. It actually seems like fat buildup on the pans causes more sticking (counterintuitive I know). To wash them, we’ve been spraying with hot Water then submerging in hot soapy water. Wipe them with a cloth dish rag quickly, then rinse and air dry.   The cloth rag has been much better than bristly bushes or sponges. But overall the issue is resolved and they release easily now . So I guess the takeaway here is that traditional seasoning logic doesn’t apply to these pans. In fact, taking that approach seems to cause issues. Hope this helps someone in the future

[HansB]

I do find that my Lloyd pans release better the more they are used.

[machada]

I was using them once a week when I originally posted. Now I’m at 3 to 4 times a week. I would definitely agree. More frequent use seems to make them work better

I do find that my Lloyd pans release better the more they are used.

[machada]

Update to the update of the update, several months of using olive oil and washing with soap and water lead us to a major sticking issue where almost every pan and every pizza was brutally stuck. I started to suspect a soap build up among other things as the culprit. After washing consistently with no soap and only hot water, the pans are releasing again like almost new. Lloyd has continued to repeat that you should not season the pans and that oil build up can cause these issues. My current theory is the first time I encountered major sticking for weeks on end was due to residual fat in the pan. I solved that by washing with soap water which worked for a while. As the pans started to stick a lot again, we did some deep cleaning with very hot water and a lot of soap. The pans then started to stick even worse. We then got suspicious of a soap residue buildup as it seemed like olive oil wanted to scatter around the pan when solid after washing. We soaked the pans in a hot water bath using an immersion cooker to keep the water hot for 2 hours, then scrubbed with a cloth rag and no soap. The pans seemed to come out looking new. We applied olive oil and they stuck seemingly worse. We did one more hot soaking with no soap and applied shortening this time. The pans released excellently after that. We’re on our second week of no soap and shortening and it seems to be working. Hopefully it continues like this

[sarahm]

We did one more hot soaking with no soap and applied shortening this time. The pans released excellently after that. We’re on our second week of no soap and shortening and it seems to be working. Hopefully it continues like this

Have you tried using the pans without using fat? I don't use fat of any kind in mine and have made dozens, if not hundreds, of Detroit-, Pequod-, Malnati-, Giordano's-, and bar-style pies in them over the years, and the only time I had a pizza stick was the first time I made a Pequod, when I oiled the side walls of the pan to keep the frico from sticking, like I would in my seasoned steel pan, which resulted in the frico welding itself to the pan.

[Grease Wheel]

With different people using different methods reporting sticking issues, I believe it’s the pans. (I have a few Lloyd’s pans and feel favorably re the company.)

I’ve had sticking bad enough to ruin a pie. Tried all kind of fixes. I think the pans can’t handle high heat.

Post decoration:

[Timpanogos Slim]

Apologies that i am just a home gamer with some thoughts --

I have a sister who has an accounting degree (and subsequently more than 25 years experience in accounting) - when she was in school she did research on cost-effectiveness of various household expenses.

One of the things she related to me was that it turns out that detergents are mostly fillers. Because people want to feel like they are using 'enough' but have a brain cramp with the idea of how little 'enough' might really be. And the manufacturer recommendation is usually a lot more than is really needed.

For example, at least in the 90's before "high efficiency" clothes washers were a thing, the average household washer had enough detergent residue in it to wash a load or two of clothes with average soiling (but not extreme soiling) with no detergent added.

Maybe related, my folks have been buying commercial laundry detergent for 30+ years that, for an "xl" home washer, the dose is 1/10th of a cup. And it's probably still like half fillers.

Consumer household dish detergent has a lot of foaming agents and gelling agents in it. Again, people use too much. Because they like to see it working.

There's a corollary with pesticides - a friend of mine was an exterminator for several years. Consumer household pesticides are far more toxic and used at far stronger concentrations than the pro stuff. Because a pro doesn't stick around to watch the bugs die - they just need to know that after 2 or 3 applications done right they won't have to come back. While the untrained consumer may apply inefficiently a dozen times before the job is done.

What I'm saying is, the issue could easily be detergent residue, and could maybe be resolved by shifting the emphasis more toward mechanical rather than chemical cleaning.