Pizza Making Forum

Pizza Making => Thick Style => Topic started by: dmaclaren on January 24, 2019, 02:11:16 PM

Title: Help recreating - Slab Portland, ME it's such like soft pillow, thoughts?
Post by: dmaclaren on January 24, 2019, 02:11:16 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qLE_-swMms8

it's like a soft pillow of pie.  All I want to do is like he said, keep throwing it in.  THoughts on a dough for this?


Thanks for any direction.
 
Title: Re: Slab Portland, ME it's such like soft pillow, thoughts?
Post by: dmaclaren on January 24, 2019, 02:32:34 PM
I found this on this place.  I am no good on %formulation

The crust is surprisingly light, striated, and almost cakey with a pleasant chew—qualities that Lanzalotta attributes to thoroughly hydrating the dough (about 90 percent), using high-quality ingredients (King Arthur Bread Flour, SAF yeast, grey sea salt, water, and a particularly floral Portuguese olive oil), and letting the dough rise five times over the course of its three-hour fermentation. By the time it's ready for baking, the jiggle-y five-pound mass has risen a bit and formed a thin skin that keeps it from sticking.

https://slice.seriouseats.com/2011/05/portland-me-micuccis-sicilian-slabs.html#comment-anchor-165436
Title: Re: Slab Portland, ME it's such like soft pillow, thoughts?
Post by: dmaclaren on January 24, 2019, 02:44:57 PM
I found more from a place that appears to be where the SLAB guy started selling and is still selling those and making them too 

This is showing some of the process  Look when she pours on the sauce how the air is in the dough at about 1:50

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=51&v=EuPUkAymQHc

Title: Re: Slab Portland, ME it's such like soft pillow, thoughts?
Post by: dmaclaren on January 24, 2019, 02:53:09 PM
At the look at the rise and how soft and pillowy, would you also believe a lot of yeast?

Do anyone want to help me start a path to a recipe?

So from reading
Bread Flour
90% hydration

3 hour proof
multiple flipping and pressing out air. (so I would believe a ton of yeast?
Cook 550 degree oven



THis is my first thought her on this, I put in a good amt of IDY to get the pillow effect, thoughts?

Flour  (100%) 344.83   12.16
Water (90%) 310.35   10.95
Yeast (3%) instant dry 10.34  0.36
Salt (2%) 6.90   0.24
Oil (4%) 13.79   0.49
Sugar (4%) 13.79   0.49


Thanks,
Don
Title: Re: Slab Portland, ME it's such like soft pillow, thoughts?
Post by: pizapizza on January 24, 2019, 11:19:07 PM
The slice I had didnt seem like it was anywhere close to 90% hydration but it was also a day old
Title: Re: Slab Portland, ME it's such like soft pillow, thoughts?
Post by: dmaclaren on January 25, 2019, 07:57:08 AM
The slice I had didnt seem like it was anywhere close to 90% hydration but it was also a day old

What do you feel may have been the hydration, I am only going by what the article mentioned and seeing the dough in the video being mixed, it looked like the flower was swimming on the water as they mixed it. 

The texture is so light, but not huge crumb, more dense crumb but so light.  The poofy, pillowy dough when they were flipping it and then after it did final rise in the pan and the sauce looked like a kid on a trampoline.
Title: Re: Help recreating - Slab Portland, ME it's such like soft pillow, thoughts?
Post by: dmaclaren on January 25, 2019, 11:59:53 AM
I just did a 90% hand mix with 10 minute Autolyse.   will see

So far, 2 hours into the rise and it's not as Fluffy or that pillow look/feel.  IT's pretty wet still.  If this fails, I will try 75 - 80% tomorrow.
Title: Re: Help recreating - Slab Portland, ME it's such like soft pillow, thoughts?
Post by: dmaclaren on January 25, 2019, 03:58:56 PM
I have not cut into it or tasted the texture. 


Now, I wasn't happy with the ride.  it wasn't soft and pillowy as the video.  I had way too much yeast, too little sugar and going to bring 90% back to 80.  I will finalize this after I try it.

Video they were flipping and degassing like 5 times in the 3 hour proof and heard her say, we will do this again in 10 minutes  so it's near the end but was thinking a lot of yeast to get that fast of a flip and degas


As you can see, it's not as thick as I wanted  at least not edges.

I also used a 1/2 sheet pan amount of flour and baked it in a 1/4 pan.



Title: Re: Help recreating - Slab Portland, ME it's such like soft pillow, thoughts?
Post by: dmaclaren on January 25, 2019, 04:07:19 PM
It is a little more dense but I would expect it based on how it rose and based on the yeast/sugar.

I will try tomorrow at 80%
Title: Re: Slab Portland, ME it's such like soft pillow, thoughts?
Post by: pizapizza on January 25, 2019, 11:46:43 PM
What do you feel may have been the hydration, I am only going by what the article mentioned and seeing the dough in the video being mixed, it looked like the flower was swimming on the water as they mixed it. 

The texture is so light, but not huge crumb, more dense crumb but so light.  The poofy, pillowy dough when they were flipping it and then after it did final rise in the pan and the sauce looked like a kid on a trampoline.
Not sure. Have you ever tried slab? The person that brought me the slice said it was a lot better fresh. One day I will get around to getting up to Portland  :-D :-D
Title: Re: Help recreating - Slab Portland, ME it's such like soft pillow, thoughts?
Post by: chriscar on January 31, 2019, 09:41:07 AM
I'm heading to Portland in a few weeks, and can't wait to try out Slab, it looks amazing. A google search turned up this recipe, it'll take someone with more experience than me to comment on how accurate it may be.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/recipes/sicilian-slab/13215/?utm_term=.b1cfbcf4da7f (https://www.washingtonpost.com/recipes/sicilian-slab/13215/?utm_term=.b1cfbcf4da7f)
Title: Re: Help recreating - Slab Portland, ME it's such like soft pillow, thoughts?
Post by: dmaclaren on February 07, 2019, 11:13:01 PM
so the slab guy used to work at Micucci's and you can get a single slice there too so thats another option.  same recipe/product


I'm heading to Portland in a few weeks, and can't wait to try out Slab, it looks amazing. A google search turned up this recipe, it'll take someone with more experience than me to comment on how accurate it may be.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/recipes/sicilian-slab/13215/?utm_term=.b1cfbcf4da7f (https://www.washingtonpost.com/recipes/sicilian-slab/13215/?utm_term=.b1cfbcf4da7f)


 :)
Title: Re: Help recreating - Slab Portland, ME it's such like soft pillow, thoughts?
Post by: HansB on February 08, 2019, 07:55:26 AM
I'm heading to Portland in a few weeks, and can't wait to try out Slab, it looks amazing. A google search turned up this recipe, it'll take someone with more experience than me to comment on how accurate it may be.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/recipes/sicilian-slab/13215/?utm_term=.b1cfbcf4da7f (https://www.washingtonpost.com/recipes/sicilian-slab/13215/?utm_term=.b1cfbcf4da7f)


Put Apizza Scholls on your list too!
Title: Re: Help recreating - Slab Portland, ME it's such like soft pillow, thoughts?
Post by: jsaras on February 08, 2019, 09:12:29 AM
I'm heading to Portland in a few weeks, and can't wait to try out Slab, it looks amazing. A google search turned up this recipe, it'll take someone with more experience than me to comment on how accurate it may be.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/recipes/sicilian-slab/13215/?utm_term=.b1cfbcf4da7f (https://www.washingtonpost.com/recipes/sicilian-slab/13215/?utm_term=.b1cfbcf4da7f)


A tablespoon of yeast is a LOT. 
Title: Re: Help recreating - Slab Portland, ME it's such like soft pillow, thoughts?
Post by: jsaras on February 08, 2019, 10:23:58 AM
I'm heading to Portland in a few weeks, and can't wait to try out Slab, it looks amazing. A google search turned up this recipe, it'll take someone with more experience than me to comment on how accurate it may be.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/recipes/sicilian-slab/13215/?utm_term=.b1cfbcf4da7f (https://www.washingtonpost.com/recipes/sicilian-slab/13215/?utm_term=.b1cfbcf4da7f)


This recipe translates to:

Flour - 100% (77.5% KABF + 22.5% Semolina)
Water - 103.28%
Salt - 1.57%
Oil - 17.66%
Honey - 3.49%
IDY - 1.6%

It’s complete nonsense.  If the author can render this into a pizza, I’d eat my shorts.
Title: Re: Help recreating - Slab Portland, ME it's such like soft pillow, thoughts?
Post by: dmaclaren on February 10, 2019, 09:35:28 PM
so i did a 85% today, no oil, double thebidy.  really didnt rise more.  it wasnt as strong as in the videos when they were flipping it, it was too delicate and flattened out.  in the video, it was airy and stronger , held up.  texture was great ad clos.
con't belive they were 90 with the way it held air/rise in video.

  try again tomorroy at 80%   i feelmimwill lose that pillow quality.
Title: Re: Help recreating - Slab Portland, ME it's such like soft pillow, thoughts?
Post by: ebpizza on February 14, 2019, 03:14:03 PM
Not knowing about this thread, I found that same Washington Post recipe yesterday so I made the pizza.  I did make the dough last night and kept it in the refrigerator overnight. I pretty much followed the recipe and turned out better than I expected.

I've never been to Slab in Portland so I don't have a reference point.  It was very soft indeed.

Title: Re: Help recreating - Slab Portland, ME it's such like soft pillow, thoughts?
Post by: DreamingOfPizza on February 14, 2019, 05:38:50 PM
Not knowing about this thread, I found that same Washington Post recipe yesterday so I made the pizza.  I did make the dough last night and kept it in the refrigerator overnight. I pretty much followed the recipe and turned out better than I expected.

I've never been to Slab in Portland so I don't have a reference point.  It was very soft indeed.
kinda looks like what  they call grandma pizza or sicilian style but a bit thicker maybe. Also, see detroit style pizza. they all look very similar.
Title: Re: Help recreating - Slab Portland, ME it's such like soft pillow, thoughts?
Post by: Pizza314 on February 14, 2019, 10:44:36 PM
I’m quite new to all of this compared to most of the folks out here, but I have been making a lot of focaccia lately and I think this seems similar. Have you tried a ~75% hydration and oil content around 10%?

On yelp pics, there’s plenty of char, so they may bake these at a very high temp?
Title: Re: Help recreating - Slab Portland, ME it's such like soft pillow, thoughts?
Post by: DreamingOfPizza on February 14, 2019, 11:18:36 PM
judging from the thickness, I am not so sure a high temp would work... but maybe could? If I was working with something this thick I would try deep dish temperatures first.
Title: Re: Help recreating - Slab Portland, ME it's such like soft pillow, thoughts?
Post by: dmaclaren on February 18, 2019, 03:47:35 PM
in the links i posted they mentioned 550 for about fifteen minutes. 

your pizza looks good for over 100% hydration.  i am still trying the 3-4 hour same day  doing a 85%now where 80% water 5% oil


judging from the thickness, I am not so sure a high temp would work... but maybe could? If I was working with something this thick I would try deep dish temperatures first.
Title: Re: Help recreating - Slab Portland, ME it's such like soft pillow, thoughts?
Post by: dmaclaren on February 18, 2019, 03:59:34 PM
when he states its like the pac man effect where you cant stop taking bite after bite.  this is what i loved about it.  it was so light and airy/pillowy


tomorrow will try 80% no time to get anoter off today
Title: Re: Help recreating - Slab Portland, ME it's such like soft pillow, thoughts?
Post by: DreamingOfPizza on February 19, 2019, 11:19:38 AM
in the links i posted they mentioned 550 for about fifteen minutes. 

your pizza looks good for over 100% hydration.  i am still trying the 3-4 hour same day  doing a 85%now where 80% water 5% oil
very interesting! I guess most of the pillowyness comes from the oven spring.
Title: Re: Help recreating - Slab Portland, ME it's such like soft pillow, thoughts?
Post by: DreamingOfPizza on February 19, 2019, 11:25:27 AM
 The more I check in on this thread the more I want you to succeed in making this clone. That looks DELICIOUS.
Title: Re: Help recreating - Slab Portland, ME it's such like soft pillow, thoughts?
Post by: DreamingOfPizza on February 19, 2019, 11:30:27 AM
Not knowing about this thread, I found that same Washington Post recipe yesterday so I made the pizza.  I did make the dough last night and kept it in the refrigerator overnight. I pretty much followed the recipe and turned out better than I expected.

I've never been to Slab in Portland so I don't have a reference point.  It was very soft indeed.

That looks great! When I am done with my NY style journey I will def have to look at this recipe and give it a shot. It does seem a little ridiculous though, the extremely high hydration but your pizza looks like it turned out great. did you have the same dough consistency as in the video with that high of a hydration?
Title: Re: Help recreating - Slab Portland, ME it's such like soft pillow, thoughts?
Post by: dmaclaren on February 19, 2019, 01:28:10 PM
yesterdays go were failures.  I can't even seem to get the high hydration to pillow on the rise that they are getting.   Any light touch and it deflates and it can't even hold up to may moving.

I can't believe the dough in those videos are same day 3 hr rise or that hydration.  I am tried notmal and high amounts of yeast and no go.

Will drop to 70 - 75 and try std yeast and then double yeast.
Title: Re: Help recreating - Slab Portland, ME it's such like soft pillow, thoughts?
Post by: ebpizza on February 19, 2019, 08:22:12 PM
That looks great! When I am done with my NY style journey I will def have to look at this recipe and give it a shot. It does seem a little ridiculous though, the extremely high hydration but your pizza looks like it turned out great. did you have the same dough consistency as in the video with that high of a hydration?

Mine wasn't as "pillowy" and seemed to be wetter than his.  I had to stretch it in the pan, rest for a few minutes, then stretch again to reach the edge of the pan.

As for final texture?, much softer than you expect from looking at the dark crust.  I also should have cooked it longer.  One helpful tip is to spray water against the oven walls as soon as you put the pizza in the oven, the steam will help with the oven lift of the dough.  Unlike the video, I didn't add the cheese at the beginning of the bake.
Title: Re: Help recreating - Slab Portland, ME it's such like soft pillow, thoughts?
Post by: DreamingOfPizza on February 19, 2019, 11:04:02 PM
yesterdays go were failures.  I can't even seem to get the high hydration to pillow on the rise that they are getting.   Any light touch and it deflates and it can't even hold up to may moving.

I can't believe the dough in those videos are same day 3 hr rise or that hydration.  I am tried notmal and high amounts of yeast and no go.

Will drop to 70 - 75 and try std yeast and then double yeast.

Maybe he means 3 hours after they take it out of the fridge? Perhaps they do a cold 24 or 48 hour ferment. I would try a good sicilian or grandmas pizza recipe and maybe up the hydration from there since they seem kind of similar. But im not sure on the flavor differences. I hope you get it. Keep working on it!
Title: Re: Help recreating - Slab Portland, ME it's such like soft pillow, thoughts?
Post by: moosebytes on March 06, 2019, 09:23:41 AM
I haven't had the pizza at Slab, but I'm assuming it's pretty much the same as Micucci's. This was my first try--kind of a shot in the dark since I had no idea how much yeast, oil, or sugar to put in the dough. I was pretty happy with the results, but there is room for improvement. I did pick up a tub of Micucci's pizza sauce when I went into Portland a couple days ago because the sauce I made left a lot to be desired. I plan to have another go at it in a couple of days.


I mixed the dough by hand, and did 3 stretch and folds within the first two hours. I probably let it rise for about 4 hours at 74 degrees. I threw the blob on the counter and stretched it out, then let it rest for about 10 minutes. I plopped it in the oiled pan and let it rise for about 1 ½ hours before topping with sauce and cheese. Next time, it will have more of both and get baked on a lower rack. It was baked at a little over 500 degrees for 14 minutes.


I used a 90% hydration dough, and scaled it down to fit an 1/8th sheet pan for the two of us. I'd welcome suggestions for percentages of oil, salt, and sugar.


Dough for 1/8th sheet pan:
425g dough ball
Hydration 90%
217g KAF Bread Flour
195g Water
2.17g IDY (about ¾ tsp.)
4.34g Salt (about ¾ tsp.)
2.17g Oil (½ tsp.)
4.34g Sugar (1 tsp.)


I was happy with the dough, but should have used more sauce and more cheese (50/50 provolone and mozzarella).


Donna
Title: Re: Help recreating - Slab Portland, ME it's such like soft pillow, thoughts?
Post by: moosebytes on March 06, 2019, 09:43:26 AM
I forgot to list the baker's percentages for the dough:
Flour (KAF Bread Flour): 100%
Water: 90%
IDY: 1%
Salt: 2%
Oil: 1%
Sugar: 2%
Title: Re: Help recreating - Slab Portland, ME it's such like soft pillow, thoughts?
Post by: dmaclaren on March 07, 2019, 05:32:50 PM
that looks great.  the slab guy is from miuccis so same pizza.  how was the texture?  your rise was great for little yeast, i used over 2 times that, maybe i didnt like mine.  also i only let rise 3.5 hours with one stretch fols session.  how long you do each session?



I haven't had the pizza at Slab, but I'm assuming it's pretty much the same as Micucci's. This was my first try--kind of a shot in the dark since I had no idea how much yeast, oil, or sugar to put in the dough. I was pretty happy with the results, but there is room for improvement. I did pick up a tub of Micucci's pizza sauce when I went into Portland a couple days ago because the sauce I made left a lot to be desired. I plan to have another go at it in a couple of days.


I mixed the dough by hand, and did 3 stretch and folds within the first two hours. I probably let it rise for about 4 hours at 74 degrees. I threw the blob on the counter and stretched it out, then let it rest for about 10 minutes. I plopped it in the oiled pan and let it rise for about 1 ½ hours before topping with sauce and cheese. Next time, it will have more of both and get baked on a lower rack. It was baked at a little over 500 degrees for 14 minutes.


I used a 90% hydration dough, and scaled it down to fit an 1/8th sheet pan for the two of us. I'd welcome suggestions for percentages of oil, salt, and sugar.


Dough for 1/8th sheet pan:
425g dough ball
Hydration 90%
217g KAF Bread Flour
195g Water
2.17g IDY (about ¾ tsp.)
4.34g Salt (about ¾ tsp.)
2.17g Oil (½ tsp.)
4.34g Sugar (1 tsp.)


I was happy with the dough, but should have used more sauce and more cheese (50/50 provolone and mozzarella).


Donna
Title: Re: Help recreating - Slab Portland, ME it's such like soft pillow, thoughts?
Post by: moosebytes on March 08, 2019, 10:08:28 AM
The amount of yeast in this is a lot more than what I use for Neapolitan. For Neapolitan, I only use .2%. This was 2%. Since the dough rises at room temperature, I didn't want too much yeast.


I added 95 degree water to the flour and let it autolyse for about 20 minutes before adding in the salt, sugar, and yeast. I don't know how long I mixed it in the bucket before the initial rise, but it wasn't long. When I did the stretch-and-folds, I went around twice so I did 8 each time. The dough didn't seem to do much for the first couple of hours. 


I'm going to make another mini-slab today, and will watch the Slab and Micucci videos again before starting. I'll take more notice of how long it rises, etc. Last time I was just winging it, and could have pulled the dough out sooner, but we weren't ready to eat so I let it rise longer. I don't remember seeing the Slab or Micucci dough rise in the pan, but I do that when I make Sicilian so it seemed like a good idea. I think 1 ½ hrs. was about right. The pan was lightly oiled before the dough went in.


The pizza was soft and pillowy, and it was still soft on the bottom. I didn't want it crunchy like Sicilian. Tonight I'll bake it on the lowest rack so the top doesn't turn out as dry. Adding more sauce and cheese should help too, but I don't want the cheese to be burnt. I want it to be oozy.

Title: Re: Help recreating - Slab Portland, ME it's such like soft pillow, thoughts?
Post by: Pazzo on March 08, 2019, 12:10:16 PM
This recipe translates to:

Flour - 100% (77.5% KABF + 22.5% Semolina)
Water - 103.28%
Salt - 1.57%
Oil - 17.66%
Honey - 3.49%
IDY - 1.6%

It’s complete nonsense.  If the author can render this into a pizza, I’d eat my shorts.

I'm bored and have heard of pourable pizza.........challenge accepted!
Title: Re: Help recreating - Slab Portland, ME it's such like soft pillow, thoughts?
Post by: moosebytes on March 08, 2019, 12:58:38 PM
I would think the semolina flour would make it denser, which is not what we’re after for the slab.


Have you eaten the pizza at Micucci’s or Slab's to be able to compare?


You are braver than I am. I’ll be interested to see your results. The 90% hydration dough is enough of a challenge for me. I’m not ready to try 103% yet. I’ll let you take one for the team!  :(
Title: Re: Help recreating - Slab Portland, ME it's such like soft pillow, thoughts?
Post by: Pazzo on March 08, 2019, 01:45:31 PM
I would think the semolina flour would make it denser, which is not what we’re after for the slab.


Good! I forgot to add it and just used 100% ap.  ;D


Have you eaten the pizza at Micucci’s or Slab's to be able to compare?


I have not. I'm pretty sure this formula won't produce anything similar anyway. So far, it's looking "good". I mixed the flour and water and yeast together, let sit for 35 minutes then mixed the rest of the ingredients together and added to the flour mixture. Poured it in the pan I'll be baking in and now it's sitting on the stove under the microwave light. I'm waiting to see some heavy action before I decide if I'm going to de-gas and let rise again or just go straight to a 550 oven. I'm leaning towards just straight to the oven.
Title: Re: Help recreating - Slab Portland, ME it's such like soft pillow, thoughts?
Post by: Pazzo on March 08, 2019, 01:51:45 PM
Forgot to add that I did 4 sets of stretch and folds at about 10 minute increments.
Title: Re: Help recreating - Slab Portland, ME it's such like soft pillow, thoughts?
Post by: Pazzo on March 08, 2019, 03:28:53 PM
Not a total disaster but I added sauce 4 minutes into the bake and it never fully cooked right. It was pretty much a crispy bottomed gumline with sauce and cheese. A couple of the corners set up decently and tasted great. I'm intrigued now, so I'll give it another shot later and par bake it longer before topping it. That formula will definitely work though. No idea how close it is to Slab however.
Title: Re: Help recreating - Slab Portland, ME it's such like soft pillow, thoughts?
Post by: DreamingOfPizza on March 08, 2019, 08:35:48 PM
Not a total disaster but I added sauce 4 minutes into the bake and it never fully cooked right. It was pretty much a crispy bottomed gumline with sauce and cheese. A couple of the corners set up decently and tasted great. I'm intrigued now, so I'll give it another shot later and par bake it longer before topping it. That formula will definitely work though. No idea how close it is to Slab however.
Maybe try just baking it with the sauce and cheese all at once, that's what the guys at slab do. No par bake from what I can see. the rim appears to be like 2 times maybe 2.5 times taller than the sauced and cheesed area so maybe more sauce and cheese to weight down the dough while it cooks.
Title: Re: Help recreating - Slab Portland, ME it's such like soft pillow, thoughts?
Post by: dmaclaren on March 08, 2019, 09:43:19 PM

great info.  i will work out a batch this weekend and upadare.  i like what you are doing, mostly  the longer rise and the multiple,stretch fold. ,i,am going to do little,more yeast and more later rise flips.  i am for sure doing one exactly like you wrote..  thank you for taking a go at this.

don.
The amount of yeast in this is a lot more than what I use for Neapolitan. For Neapolitan, I only use .2%. This was 2%. Since the dough rises at room temperature, I didn't want too much yeast.


I added 95 degree water to the flour and let it autolyse for about 20 minutes before adding in the salt, sugar, and yeast. I don't know how long I mixed it in the bucket before the initial rise, but it wasn't long. When I did the stretch-and-folds, I went around twice so I did 8 each time. The dough didn't seem to do much for the first couple of hours. 


I'm going to make another mini-slab today, and will watch the Slab and Micucci videos again before starting. I'll take more notice of how long it rises, etc. Last time I was just winging it, and could have pulled the dough out sooner, but we weren't ready to eat so I let it rise longer. I don't remember seeing the Slab or Micucci dough rise in the pan, but I do that when I make Sicilian so it seemed like a good idea. I think 1 ½ hrs. was about right. The pan was lightly oiled before the dough went in.


The pizza was soft and pillowy, and it was still soft on the bottom. I didn't want it crunchy like Sicilian. Tonight I'll bake it on the lowest rack so the top doesn't turn out as dry. Adding more sauce and cheese should help too, but I don't want the cheese to be burnt. I want it to be oozy.
Title: Re: Help recreating - Slab Portland, ME it's such like soft pillow, thoughts?
Post by: dmaclaren on March 08, 2019, 09:45:30 PM
they didn't pre bake and i don't want
 to go down that road
Title: Re: Help recreating - Slab Portland, ME it's such like soft pillow, thoughts?
Post by: dmaclaren on March 08, 2019, 09:48:08 PM
yes, not hard bottom and oozy cheese.

The amount of yeast in this is a lot more than what I use for Neapolitan. For Neapolitan, I only use .2%. This was 2%. Since the dough rises at room temperature, I didn't want too much yeast.


I added 95 degree water to the flour and let it autolyse for about 20 minutes before adding in the salt, sugar, and yeast. I don't know how long I mixed it in the bucket before the initial rise, but it wasn't long. When I did the stretch-and-folds, I went around twice so I did 8 each time. The dough didn't seem to do much for the first couple of hours. 


I'm going to make another mini-slab today, and will watch the Slab and Micucci videos again before starting. I'll take more notice of how long it rises, etc. Last time I was just winging it, and could have pulled the dough out sooner, but we weren't ready to eat so I let it rise longer. I don't remember seeing the Slab or Micucci dough rise in the pan, but I do that when I make Sicilian so it seemed like a good idea. I think 1 ½ hrs. was about right. The pan was lightly oiled before the dough went in.


The pizza was soft and pillowy, and it was still soft on the bottom. I didn't want it crunchy like Sicilian. Tonight I'll bake it on the lowest rack so the top doesn't turn out as dry. Adding more sauce and cheese should help too, but I don't want the cheese to be burnt. I want it to be oozy.
Title: Re: Help recreating - Slab Portland, ME it's such like soft pillow, thoughts?
Post by: moosebytes on March 09, 2019, 01:48:28 PM
My slab was really good, but slightly doughy in the middle where the sauce and cheese pooled. It baked for 13 minutes at 500 degrees. I'm not sure how to fix that. I'll try increasing the bake time by 2 minutes next time. It baked on the bottom rack of the oven on a preheated baking stone. The bottom was slightly crispy, which was not my goal and which didn't happen with my first try. I think next time I won't use the baking stone, and may stick a baking sheet under my pan for insulation.


The dough was started at 11:30 AM, and I put it in the pan to rise at 4:30 PM. Stretch and folds were done every half hour or so until I felt it had enough structure and was getting puffy (maybe about 3 hours after mixing the dough?). I let the dough rise in the pan for about 1 ½ hrs. before baking. 



We both agreed that we could have eaten more, so I'll use my ¼-sheet pan for the next bake. Yeast amount seems to be fine, but I may want to increase the oil and sugar amounts. Since Neapolitan doesn't have oil or sugar, I'm not sure of the amounts I should use.




Title: Re: Help recreating - Slab Portland, ME it's such like soft pillow, thoughts?
Post by: moosebytes on March 09, 2019, 01:52:21 PM
they didn't pre bake and i don't want
 to go down that road
I think pre-baking will get you crunchy-on-the-bottom Sicilian.
Title: Re: Help recreating - Slab Portland, ME it's such like soft pillow, thoughts?
Post by: moosebytes on March 09, 2019, 01:59:52 PM
great info.  i will work out a batch this weekend and upadare.  i like what you are doing, mostly  the longer rise and the multiple,stretch fold. ,i,am going to do little,more yeast and more later rise flips.  i am for sure doing one exactly like you wrote..  thank you for taking a go at this.

don.
After I poured my dough on the counter onto LOTS of bench flour, I gently pulled it out a bit, poked it with my fingertips, and flipped it. I did this a couple of times with 10-minute rests in between and then into the pan to rise. After the 1 ½ hr. rise, I topped it with 5 oz. of sauce, 2 ½-3 oz. of shredded cheese, dried oregano, pepperoni, EVOO, and sea salt.


Good luck! I'll be interested to see how you make out. Too bad we can't eat pizza every night. :pizza:
Title: Re: Help recreating - Slab Portland, ME it's such like soft pillow, thoughts?
Post by: moosebytes on March 09, 2019, 02:06:54 PM
Good! I forgot to add it and just used 100% ap.  ;D

I have not. I'm pretty sure this formula won't produce anything similar anyway. So far, it's looking "good". I mixed the flour and water and yeast together, let sit for 35 minutes then mixed the rest of the ingredients together and added to the flour mixture. Poured it in the pan I'll be baking in and now it's sitting on the stove under the microwave light. I'm waiting to see some heavy action before I decide if I'm going to de-gas and let rise again or just go straight to a 550 oven. I'm leaning towards just straight to the oven.
Although I still think the hydration level is to high in the recipe, using bread flour instead of AP flour might help. It would give it more structure. Maybe more time in between your stretch and folds would allow the gluten to develop. You need a fair amount of gluten to support all those bubbles.
Title: Re: Help recreating - Slab Portland, ME it's such like soft pillow, thoughts?
Post by: dmaclaren on March 09, 2019, 04:31:20 PM
Thanks for the update, I am glad you took this on, you are doing great and the info is nice.  I am going to give it a go again tomorrow, just wanted to make sure I had proper time to give it so I could hit all the times areas.


I'll update and try to get pics of the progression.
Title: Re: Help recreating - Slab Portland, ME it's such like soft pillow, thoughts?
Post by: DreamingOfPizza on March 09, 2019, 06:20:37 PM
My slab was really good, but slightly doughy in the middle where the sauce and cheese pooled. It baked for 13 minutes at 500 degrees. I'm not sure how to fix that. I'll try increasing the bake time by 2 minutes next time. It baked on the bottom rack of the oven on a preheated baking stone. The bottom was slightly crispy, which was not my goal and which didn't happen with my first try. I think next time I won't use the baking stone, and may stick a baking sheet under my pan for insulation.


The dough was started at 11:30 AM, and I put it in the pan to rise at 4:30 PM. Stretch and folds were done every half hour or so until I felt it had enough structure and was getting puffy (maybe about 3 hours after mixing the dough?). I let the dough rise in the pan for about 1 ½ hrs. before baking. 



We both agreed that we could have eaten more, so I'll use my ¼-sheet pan for the next bake. Yeast amount seems to be fine, but I may want to increase the oil and sugar amounts. Since Neapolitan doesn't have oil or sugar, I'm not sure of the amounts I should use.

That looks great! Looks like you are on the right track with this one!
Title: Re: Help recreating - Slab Portland, ME it's such like soft pillow, thoughts?
Post by: dmaclaren on March 11, 2019, 11:27:02 AM
I didn't get to make one yesterday, will try to start one  shortly

Title: Re: Help recreating - Slab Portland, ME it's such like soft pillow, thoughts?
Post by: dmaclaren on March 13, 2019, 01:57:57 PM
I just started a go at this.
I'll post numbers

All mixing is done in stand mixer, I want to try no hand mixing.

1 - Mixed Flour, water, sugar, yeast - Let stand for 15 minutes
2 - Mixed in salt and oil (read about oil/fat after dough hydrates and not to block it)
3 - Rise 10 minutes
4 - Mixed 10 seconds
5 - Rise 20 minutes
6 - Mixed 10 seconds
7 - Rise 20 minutes
8 - Mixed 10 seconds
9 Rise......  Total  since mix 2:30 minutes.  - It has nice pillow feel and it has structure   deflated and put on a sheet pan.






Title: Re: Help recreating - Slab Portland, ME it's such like soft pillow, thoughts?
Post by: moosebytes on March 13, 2019, 02:58:48 PM
I just started a go at this.
I'll post numbers

All mixing is done in stand mixer, I want to try no hand mixing.

1 - Mixed Flour, water, sugar, yeast - Let stand for 15 minutes
2 - Mixed in salt and oil (read about oil/fat after dough hydrates and not to block it)
3 - Rise 10 minutes
4 - Mixed 10 seconds
5 - Rise 20 minutes
6 - Mixed 10 seconds
7 - Rise 20 minutes
8 - Mixed 10 seconds
9 Rise......  Total  since mix 2:30 minutes.  - It has nice pillow feel and it has structure   deflated and put on a sheet pan.


It’s looking really good! I’m looking forward to your next update. I’m anxious to try it again.
FYI...I have also read that sugar is hygroscopic so, just to be safe, I don’t mix that in until after the autolyse.
Title: Re: Help recreating - Slab Portland, ME it's such like soft pillow, thoughts?
Post by: dmaclaren on March 13, 2019, 04:01:54 PM
So this was the shot, looking great, but flipping it like they did took all air out, right back to flat. 

The only hope is the final rise but his were nice and pillowy when ht put into his sheet pans, my deflated 100 on it's own.  No good.

It was great when it was in the pan, then this last hour, boooooo


Now I will have to try again.  Not sure what happened from the pan to the sheet and the structure let go.  I am still going to bake it though.

MAybe I need to shorted the rise and work it more before the end.  I started all this at 12:25




Title: Re: Help recreating - Slab Portland, ME it's such like soft pillow, thoughts?
Post by: dmaclaren on March 13, 2019, 05:09:16 PM
So I need to cut back on some flour as it appears a little too much for the pan, 1/2 sheet.

I will cook this one though ans see how it is.

Since I like the first picture and then not the last one, after the clip, as it didn't hold up I will try again tomorrow. 

I checked the temp of the proofer and it was like 88 degrees  on the towel covering the dough.  So I will start to crack the proofer and or room temp, 71 degrees for the while time. 

I really liked the feel of the dough in the first picture, it was so promising.

Title: Re: Help recreating - Slab Portland, ME it's such like soft pillow, thoughts?
Post by: dmaclaren on March 13, 2019, 05:37:19 PM
It went into the 1.4 sheet as flat as can be as all the air deflated on it's own. It did however, rise up nice after about 1.5 hours in pan.


My goal is to get it into the pan like his where it is nice and pillowy
Title: Re: Help recreating - Slab Portland, ME it's such like soft pillow, thoughts?
Post by: dmaclaren on March 13, 2019, 06:00:45 PM
Not happy with results.
1.  I think under cooked a little, but I didn't want too much cheese to dry wanted it gooey.
2.  I believe too much dough for the 1/2 sheet as it is too dense but nice and light.
3.  it was very soft though.
Title: Re: Help recreating - Slab Portland, ME it's such like soft pillow, thoughts?
Post by: dmaclaren on March 13, 2019, 06:22:40 PM
Tomorrow, I am going to try again and do the following.

1.  Reduce the flour for the 1/2 sheet
2.  Reduce time from 20 min between the 3 mixes to 10 minutes.
3.  Proof on the counter in 72 degree room
4.  more cheese
5.  Cook 17 minutes, even with less dough.  If top darkens too much will stop and see how it is.


Here is the formula for tomorrow
 
Code: [Select]
Flour (KABF): 100%   368g
Water: 88%           324g
IDY: 1.25%           4.6g
Salt: 2%             7.3g
Oil: 2%              7.3g
Sugar: 2%            7.3g
Title: Re: Help recreating - Slab Portland, ME it's such like soft pillow, thoughts?
Post by: moosebytes on March 13, 2019, 07:01:14 PM
So this was the shot, looking great, but flipping it like they did took all air out, right back to flat. 

The only hope is the final rise but his were nice and pillowy when ht put into his sheet pans, my deflated 100 on it's own.  No good.

It was great when it was in the pan, then this last hour, boooooo


Now I will have to try again.  Not sure what happened from the pan to the sheet and the structure let go.  I am still going to bake it though.

MAybe I need to shorted the rise and work it more before the end.  I started all this at 12:25
I don’t think my dough deflated before I put it in the pan, but I was very gentle with it. After rising for 1 ½ hrs. in the pan, it was very pillowy. Did you use a pizza steel or stone? Mine was slightly doughy, so I'm wondering if I should cut down the amount of dough that goes into the pan. I don’t think I’m going to be able to try again until the weekend.
Title: Re: Help recreating - Slab Portland, ME it's such like soft pillow, thoughts?
Post by: moosebytes on March 13, 2019, 07:10:13 PM
Not happy with results.
1.  I think under cooked, but I didn't want too much cheese to dry wanted it gooy.
2.  I believe too much dough for the 1/2 sheet as it is too dense but nice and light.
3.  it was very soft though.
What was your oven temp? The highest temp on mine is 500 degrees, but I'm going to move it as far past that as I can before it hits broil. Maybe it will get close to the 550 degrees he uses at Slab.
Title: Re: Help recreating - Slab Portland, ME it's such like soft pillow, thoughts?
Post by: dmaclaren on March 13, 2019, 07:17:58 PM
I used Fibrament-D stone from https://bakingstone.com/  3/4"

it was 500 when I put it in.  I think the temp is okay if I cut the amount of dough down. 
If not, I will try heating oven to the 500 but heating the stone to 600 on grill. then placing it in oven.

TOmorrow we shall see, I really am making too many adjustments in one try but I kind have htese thoughts in my head of htings to change.  #1 change is the amount of dough. 


Title: Re: Help recreating - Slab Portland, ME it's such like soft pillow, thoughts?
Post by: dmaclaren on March 14, 2019, 01:51:24 PM
You mixed it then did 3 stretch and folds or the mix after hydration counted as 1 of the three?
Title: Re: Help recreating - Slab Portland, ME it's such like soft pillow, thoughts?
Post by: dmaclaren on March 14, 2019, 02:48:58 PM
So todays sample


 
Code: [Select]
For a 1/2 sheet pan.
Flour (KABF): 100%   368g
Water: 88%           324g
IDY: 1.25%           4.6g
Salt: 2%             7.3g
Oil: 2%              7.3g
Sugar: 2%            7.3g



I am dusting with flour to give it that skin, as he called it, to remove any sticking so it will not pull and deflate on flips and be easy to work with.
Lots of attention this dough is, not sure how they do it for all the customers.


Mix yeast, water, flour, sugar
10 Min rest
Mix oil, salt just to combined
10 Min rest
mix 10 seconds (basically until it pulled from side)
10 min rest
mix 10 seconds (basically until it pulled from side)
10 Min rest
mix 10 seconds (basically until it pulled from side)
20 Min rest
flip
20 Min rest
Flip
30 min rest
Move to sheet pan
1.5 hour rest
Bake 15 min

...

Title: Re: Help recreating - Slab Portland, ME it's such like soft pillow, thoughts?
Post by: moosebytes on March 14, 2019, 04:21:56 PM
I used Fibrament-D stone from https://bakingstone.com/ (https://bakingstone.com/)  3/4"

it was 500 when I put it in.  I think the temp is okay if I cut the amount of dough down. 
If not, I will try heating oven to the 500 but heating the stone to 600 on grill. then placing it in oven.

TOmorrow we shall see, I really am making too many adjustments in one try but I kind have htese thoughts in my head of htings to change.  #1 change is the amount of dough.
I had my Fibrament stone on an upper rack and my baking steel on the lowest rack last time in case I needed to move the pizza if it was browning too much on the top or the bottom. I ended up leaving it on the bottom rack. I'm thinking of going with no stone or steel next time--whenever that is. Like you said, changing too many things at once is risky so next time might be just that change. After that, I'm going to try a Hawaiian with roasted fresh pineapples and onions.
Title: Re: Help recreating - Slab Portland, ME it's such like soft pillow, thoughts?
Post by: dmaclaren on March 15, 2019, 07:00:42 AM
moosebytes - Do you like your fibrament?  I have two of them and they are only a few years old.  My orig round one is like 14 years old, a little pitted on top.  I read where some people think it's causing them to lose ability to remember things :)


I didn't like this go;
- I used the less dough
- I did the 3 mixes 10 min rather than 20 min in-between
- it was in 72 degree house and not in proofer

I can get it to hold up nice and take shape with the air inside.  THat last like flip to when I put in pan, it loses the structure to hold up well and  I need that longer rise in pan.


I must have had to much sauce cause it collapsed and still with less dough.  Oh, it was super tasty, best yet in flavor.  I didn't get as much open crumb as you.  it was super light eating though.


Not sure what the next iteration will be.  If you try again, can you up to the 1/2 sheet and try?


I wouldn't make this pizza, with these results normally because of the time involved in making it, so much hands on.



Title: Re: Help recreating - Slab Portland, ME it's such like soft pillow, thoughts?
Post by: moosebytes on March 15, 2019, 11:14:57 AM
You mixed it then did 3 stretch and folds or the mix after hydration counted as 1 of the three?
I did not count the mixing after hydration as a stretch and fold. To be honest, I'm not sure I even counted the stretch and folds. I think you want to stop doing stretch and folds after the dough feels like it has enough structure and just let it rise undisturbed for maybe an hour or two.
Title: Re: Help recreating - Slab Portland, ME it's such like soft pillow, thoughts?
Post by: DreamingOfPizza on March 15, 2019, 11:18:13 AM
I wonder if higher gluten flour is needed? it might help with the collapsing.

Dmaclaren, did you happen to get a crumb shot? You said the sauce and cheese weigh it down a bit, the crumb shots from slab show a high crust and a puffy, yet moderatly weighed down under the cheese and sauce.
To me the crumb to get so cotton candy like that and billowy it needs some structure to hold itself up like that. High gluten may help.... maybe.
Title: Re: Help recreating - Slab Portland, ME it's such like soft pillow, thoughts?
Post by: moosebytes on March 15, 2019, 11:26:09 AM
moosebytes - Do you like your fibrament?  I have two of them and they are only a few years old.  My orig round one is like 14 years old, a little pitted on top.  I read where some people think it's causing them to lose ability to remember things :)


I didn't like this go;
- I used the less dough
- I did the 3 mixes 10 min rather than 20 min in-between
- it was in 72 degree house and not in proofer

I can get it to hold up nice and take shape with the air inside.  THat last like flip to when I put in pan, it loses the structure to hold up well and  I need that longer rise in pan.


I must have had to much sauce cause it collapsed and still with less dough.  Oh, it was super tasty, best yet in flavor.  I didn't get as much open crumb as you.  it was super light eating though.


Not sure what the next iteration will be.  If you try again, can you up to the 1/2 sheet and try?


I wouldn't make this pizza, with these results normally because of the time involved in making it, so much hands on.


Yes, I like my Fibrament. I ordered a rectangular size that covers almost the entire rack of my oven, and have had it for several years. I use it more for bread baking than pizza. I usually make pizza in our indoor wood fired oven. Interesting about the memory loss claims. I don't know how people make these connections. ???


Your pizza looks great! Sorry it didn't live up to your expectations. So, you don't recommend cutting back on the amount of dough? When I started down this path, I believe I made a note of how much dough they used to fill a full sheet pan, and used an eighth of that amount for my 1/8th sheet pan.


My next one will be in a ¼ sheet pan. There are only two of us so I don't know when I'll try the half sheet pan. The other thing is that the bigger the pan, the harder it is to manage moving the dough into it without a disaster. I'll have to work up my courage and my appetite.
Title: Re: Help recreating - Slab Portland, ME it's such like soft pillow, thoughts?
Post by: dmaclaren on March 16, 2019, 08:10:16 AM
so the first 1/4 sheet I did was your size doubled.  I loved it but it was a little much dough I thought crammed in the pan to get me the more open crumb.  The reduced one was 85% of that which was a little more than the very first one I did.

Now it's all about the rise for sure and the work should be there.  I just want to have the dough with enough form like the videos that show the pillow  air filled that they flip and he folds into the pan.  I don't know, maybe when it's enough for a full pan, for them which I think may be a 2/3's because it doesn't look as big as  a full makers sheet.


I wonder if I should try more yeast for the structure?
It was holding up nice than about the second flip it was losing the ability to hold up and not flatten out.  Then when I put it int he pan to do the last rise it was almost flat.

Title: Re: Help recreating - Slab Portland, ME it's such like soft pillow, thoughts?
Post by: moosebytes on March 16, 2019, 05:00:05 PM
so the first 1/4 sheet I did was your size doubled.  I loved it but it was a little much dough I thought crammed in the pan to get me the more open crumb.  The reduced one was 85% of that which was a little more than the very first one I did.

Now it's all about the rise for sure and the work should be there.  I just want to have the dough with enough form like the videos that show the pillow  air filled that they flip and he folds into the pan.  I don't know, maybe when it's enough for a full pan, for them which I think may be a 2/3's because it doesn't look as big as  a full makers sheet.


I wonder if I should try more yeast for the structure?
It was holding up nice than about the second flip it was losing the ability to hold up and not flatten out.  Then when I put it int he pan to do the last rise it was almost flat.


I just looked at the Slab video again, and I'm pretty sure it's a full sheet pan. The pizza is cut into 8 pieces, each weighing about a pound. They say "A half a slab is a half a sheet pan, and a full slab weighs in at a whopping 8 pounds of lumpy, bumpy perfection...". Did you notice how he flips the bottom third of the dough under and the top third over before moving it to the oiled pan? That is going to take some practice for me.


Do you think increasing the amount of yeast would give it more structure? I't would cause it to rise faster. Slower rises give the dough more flavor. Another thing to consider is that the room temperature it's rising at in the restaurant is probably much higher than home room temperature. Unless I'm short on time, I'll go for the longer rise. Neither the Slab video or the Micucci's video mentions letting the dough rise in the pan before baking. So they must be able to get the dough in the pan without deflating. Mine wasn't as puffy as theirs until after the rise in the pan.


Let me know if you increase the yeast and what happens.
Title: Re: Help recreating - Slab Portland, ME it's such like soft pillow, thoughts?
Post by: dmaclaren on March 16, 2019, 07:11:33 PM
when I look at he mucchis, at the end the woman bring the pan to the woman at the counter.  you can see that it's perfectly fitting the pan, they would have to have let the final rise happen in the pan I would think, if maybe 15 - 30 min.  the jiggle it has  mine had. 

I may try my last measurements but change the processing to what I did the first time to see if I do want less dough.

Title: Re: Help recreating - Slab Portland, ME it's such like soft pillow, thoughts?
Post by: moosebytes on March 16, 2019, 08:09:59 PM
when I look at he mucchis, at the end the woman bring the pan to the woman at the counter.  you can see that it's perfectly fitting the pan, they would have to have let the final rise happen in the pan I would think, if maybe 15 - 30 min.  the jiggle it has  mine had. 

I may try my last measurements but change the processing to what I did the first time to see if I do want less dough.
In the Slab video, it looked like the pizza was pulled out to about the size of the pan before it was folded and transferred. I don't remember any mention of a final rise in the pan.


I'll probably have a go at it next week.
Title: Re: Help recreating - Slab Portland, ME it's such like soft pillow, thoughts?
Post by: dmaclaren on March 23, 2019, 08:03:14 AM
I will try to carve out time to make one tomorrow.   I need to think about going back to the last one I likes, with a little too mich dough then maybe just cutting only the amounts and keeping the process.


Then I can change the process little by little and see how it works.   Last time I did too many things different for it to have been a proper test.

Title: Re: Help recreating - Slab Portland, ME it's such like soft pillow, thoughts?
Post by: DreamingOfPizza on March 23, 2019, 02:34:04 PM
you guys are doing gods work. Good luck, because I really want to try this once you guys have it all figured out  ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Help recreating - Slab Portland, ME it's such like soft pillow, thoughts?
Post by: moosebytes on March 23, 2019, 03:55:04 PM
I will try to carve out time to make one tomorrow.   I need to think about going back to the last one I likes, with a little too mich dough then maybe just cutting only the amounts and keeping the process.


Then I can change the process little by little and see how it works.   Last time I did too many things different for it to have been a proper test.
I'll look forward to your results, and will probably be making a ¼ sheet one within the next few days.
Title: Re: Help recreating - Slab Portland, ME it's such like soft pillow, thoughts?
Post by: ebpizza on March 24, 2019, 12:24:10 PM
Tried it again:
-more flour
-mix by hand with gentle folds every 30min , rise in pan 30min
-500F 10min no cheese
-spray oven with water at start of the bake
-add cheese cook at 425 and keep lower temp so not to burn cheese
-3hr room temp rise , not overnight

Still light and fluffy. 

Title: Re: Help recreating - Slab Portland, ME it's such like soft pillow, thoughts?
Post by: dmaclaren on April 02, 2019, 07:41:54 AM
moosebytes, I was at Micucci's yesterday.  I was only able to catch a couple things while there but some more info on their process none the less.   And yeah, I had a plain cheese and pepperoni. 

1.  For sure this is a sweetened COOKED sauce, yummy for sure
2.  They do a bulk ferment for sure
3.  They are as light and airy when they are flipping on the bench rise
4.  For that non sticky dough, once they tension the high hydration dough (by tucking in the bottom) they then use a strainer to sift a large amount of flour on the portioned dough.  They coat it for sure, then towel to let rise more.


After watching that much, the person stopped working on it as she was about to take that bulk out and start  portioning.  MAybe they are super protective.

Title: Re: Help recreating - Slab Portland, ME it's such like soft pillow, thoughts?
Post by: moosebytes on April 15, 2019, 10:03:51 AM
moosebytes, I was at Micucci's yesterday.  I was only able to catch a couple things while there but some more info on their process none the less.   And yeah, I had a plain cheese and pepperoni. 

1.  For sure this is a sweetened COOKED sauce, yummy for sure
2.  They do a bulk ferment for sure
3.  They are as light and airy when they are flipping on the bench rise
4.  For that non sticky dough, once they tension the high hydration dough (by tucking in the bottom) they then use a strainer to sift a large amount of flour on the portioned dough.  They coat it for sure, then towel to let rise more.


After watching that much, the person stopped working on it as she was about to take that bulk out and start  portioning.  MAybe they are super protective.
Hey dmaclaren!
Thanks for the info. I'm getting ready to try again today. I picked up some of Micucci's pizza sauce last time we were in Portland. How do you know their sauce is cooked? I can never get a good look at what they're doing because I can't see through the pizza into the kitchen.


My last attempt was doughy in the middle. I think I didn't use enough flour when I was working with the dough. It stuck to itself and deflated a little. I did notice afterwards that I completely forgot to add sugar to the dough so that probably didn't help. I may try increasing the amount of oil in the dough this time.


Tonight's pizza will be another quarter sheet and have Hawaiian toppings that hopefully won't weigh the dough down too much. I'll try to get results posted tomorrow.
Title: Re: Help recreating - Slab Portland, ME it's such like soft pillow, thoughts?
Post by: dmaclaren on April 26, 2019, 07:14:26 AM
moosebytes - It had that nice sweet cooked flavor that raw can't produce.  I noticed it more this last time up there and really think it's key.
Title: Re: Help recreating - Slab Portland, ME it's such like soft pillow, thoughts?
Post by: moosebytes on April 26, 2019, 02:45:35 PM
moosebytes - It had that nice sweet cooked flavor that raw can't produce.  I noticed it more this last time up there and really think it's key.
Don,
You don't think it could just be the tomatoes they use?


Anyway, I purchased a couple of tubs of their sauce last time I was there so that’s what I used. The pizza was very tasty, but I’m still getting a bit of doughiness in the center. If my plain cheese slabs hadn’t had the same issue, I would have blamed it on too many toppings. Any ideas on how to solve that problem? It's frustrating.


I won’t be trying again for awhile. The slab dough is really time intensive. I’m doing two Neapolitans tonight—so much easier!

Title: Re: Help recreating - Slab Portland, ME it's such like soft pillow, thoughts?
Post by: dmaclaren on May 15, 2019, 01:38:03 PM
Been away from this for a bit.  I am going to try another this weekend.

Title: Re: Help recreating - Slab Portland, ME it's such like soft pillow, thoughts?
Post by: moosebytes on May 15, 2019, 05:12:20 PM
Been away from this for a bit.  I am going to try another this weekend.


Good luck! Let me know how it turns out.
Title: Re: Help recreating - Slab Portland, ME it's such like soft pillow, thoughts?
Post by: dmaclaren on May 28, 2019, 03:24:20 PM
I made one yesterday, was not real happy.  Used previous formula but mixed it shorter time and less resting between.  Was a little too dense, but great chew.  Too much sauce too.

still, I don't  get that pillow dough they seem to get, ever in the process
Title: Re: Help recreating - Slab Portland, ME it's such like soft pillow, thoughts?
Post by: dmaclaren on May 29, 2019, 12:30:17 PM
Trying again today.  Trying 90% with more yeast and 85%  more yeast.  I watched the videos again and the dough just is more firm and able to hold it's structure than out 90%'s

Don't get me wrong, I like the flavor and texture but lets see what 80% does.  then if I like I can shoot for the 85%.


Title: Re: Help recreating - Slab Portland, ME it's such like soft pillow, thoughts?
Post by: moosebytes on May 29, 2019, 04:40:22 PM
I made one yesterday, was not real happy.  Used previous formula but mixed it shorter time and less resting between.  Was a little too dense, but great chew.  Too much sauce too.

still, I don't  get that pillow dough they seem to get, ever in the process


It's a lot of work so it's disappointing when you don't get the results you were hoping for.  :(  My dough isn't as billowy as theirs either. I don't plan to try again until the weather warms up here. I'm sticking with the 90% hydration, but may try more yeast next time.
Title: Re: Help recreating - Slab Portland, ME it's such like soft pillow, thoughts?
Post by: dmaclaren on May 29, 2019, 05:28:39 PM
yeah, it is hard when it fails.  I need to try some bread forums too for advise and get some info on the ability to get so able to hold up to touching, flipping while rising.


I need to go bribe a worker in the place, ya know and hang out the back door and catch them with a couple hundred in my hand :)
Title: Re: Help recreating - Slab Portland, ME it's such like soft pillow, thoughts?
Post by: moosebytes on May 29, 2019, 07:26:39 PM
yeah, it is hard when it fails.  I need to try some bread forums too for advise and get some info on the ability to get so able to hold up to touching, flipping while rising.


I need to go bribe a worker in the place, ya know and hang out the back door and catch them with a couple hundred in my hand.
It seems like the process is a lot like making ciabatta. It’s tricky. You want to keep the bubbles, but you don’t want the top to puff up and separate from the bottom. I make a lot of bread, and would recommend King Arthur and Cook's Illustrated (America's Test Kitchen).


If all else fails, I think a bribe is in order.  ;)







Title: Re: Help recreating - Slab Portland, ME it's such like soft pillow, thoughts?
Post by: dmaclaren on May 30, 2019, 08:00:50 AM
Two failed attempts today so I tested my IDY.  I freeze it and don't allow it to thaw, I take what I need and return.  I do this because I bought it in bulk and it's good IDY.  I put a teaspoon IDY, some sugar in some warm water and it did well, so I don't feel it's the yeast.


The structure doesn't  hold, it just spreads and fails form.  I will try again using some tucking to see if I can get it to hold up.  if you check the vid in first page, you can see the balls before they are elongated and are holding shape like it's 60% hydration dough and no wear near this 90%


Title: Re: Help recreating - Slab Portland, ME it's such like soft pillow, thoughts?
Post by: moosebytes on May 30, 2019, 08:31:49 PM
Two failed attempts today so I tested my IDY.  I freeze it and don't allow it to thaw, I take what I need and return.  I do this because I bought it in bulk and it's good IDY.  I put a teaspoon IDY, some sugar in some warm water and it did well, so I don't feel it's the yeast.


The structure doesn't  hold, it just spreads and fails form.  I will try again using some tucking to see if I can get it to hold up.  if you check the vid in first page, you can see the balls before they are elongated and are holding shape like it's 60% hydration dough and no wear near this 90%
If your yeast is stored in the freezer, it will last indefinitely. I swear by SAF Instant Yeast. I buy the 1-lb. package, and keep a working supply (½ cup or so) in a jar in the fridge. I vacuum seal the rest, and keep it in the freezer. I make enough bread that it's inconvenient to have to dig through the freezer every time.


I think the dough has to have enough gluten structure to hold in all the air bubbles. How to develop that is the kicker. If you decrease the hydration, I think you'll lose the light billowy texture.


Sure wish I could figure out the secret.


Title: Re: Help recreating - Slab Portland, ME it's such like soft pillow, thoughts?
Post by: dmaclaren on May 31, 2019, 11:48:13 AM
yeah, the secret.  Because those on the table, pre rectangle, look to have nice structure.   

And, since they are hand mixing it, how much are they doing.....

Title: Re: Help recreating - Slab Portland, ME it's such like soft pillow, thoughts?
Post by: dmaclaren on May 31, 2019, 11:56:06 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vEG1BjWroT0
Title: Re: Help recreating - Slab Portland, ME it's such like soft pillow, thoughts?
Post by: moosebytes on May 31, 2019, 01:34:30 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vEG1BjWroT0 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vEG1BjWroT0)
Thanks for the link. I've seen this one before, and just watched it again. I think it's the best video I've seen on shaping high-hydration dough. :chef:
Title: Re: Help recreating - Slab Portland, ME it's such like soft pillow, thoughts?
Post by: dmaclaren on May 31, 2019, 03:35:17 PM
I did another one, not sure I will have tme to bake it off.   I did a lot of mixing to get the gluten to form.  It's holding up better and I think I will try 85% hydration on next go.   But I like this one more with the 2 4  minute mix with paddle attachment on 10 minute rest   stay tuned


Title: Re: Help recreating - Slab Portland, ME it's such like soft pillow, thoughts?
Post by: moosebytes on May 31, 2019, 04:34:07 PM
I did another one, not sure I will have tme to bake it off.   I did a lot of mixing to get the gluten to form.  It's holding up better and I think I will try 85% hydration on next go.   But I like this one more with the 2 4  minute mix with paddle attachment on 10 minute rest   stay tuned
Was this one 90% hydration? Did you knead twice for 4 minutes each time with a 10 minute rest in between? If you have a KA mixer, did you use speed #2?


It sounds promising.
Title: Re: Help recreating - Slab Portland, ME it's such like soft pillow, thoughts?
Post by: dmaclaren on June 01, 2019, 06:59:57 AM
it was  mixed, 4 minutes, rested 10 minutes then mixed again 4 minutes in a KA #2 and with paddle

It held up better but not like theirs.  So, going for 85% with a fold after 1.5 hour.  then 45 min rest then try to do their 10 min degas flip.

I liked the sauce I did.  can whole tomatoes, blended, 1/2 tsp garlic gran, 1 tsp salt, 1.5 tsp sugar, cooked high for 5 minutes.  I thought it was going to taste thin and raw but it was perfect, I was surprised.


1/4 baking sheet
Flour (KABF): 100%      390   
Water: 88%                  343   
IDY: 2%                          8   
Salt: 2%                         8   
Oil: 2%                           8   
Sugar: 2%                      8     
(water and oil = 90%)
Title: Re: Help recreating - Slab Portland, ME it's such like soft pillow, thoughts?
Post by: moosebytes on June 02, 2019, 05:36:23 PM
it was  mixed, 4 minutes, rested 10 minutes then mixed again 4 minutes in a KA #2 and with paddle

It held up better but not like theirs.  So, going for 85% with a fold after 1.5 hour.  then 45 min rest then try to do their 10 min degas flip.

I liked the sauce I did.  can whole tomatoes, blended, 1/2 tsp garlic gran, 1 tsp salt, 1.5 tsp sugar, cooked high for 5 minutes.  I thought it was going to taste thin and raw but it was perfect, I was surprised.


1/4 baking sheet
Flour (KABF): 100%      390   
Water: 88%                  343   
IDY: 2%                          8   
Salt: 2%                         8   
Oil: 2%                           8   
Sugar: 2%                      8     
(water and oil = 90%)


The pizza looks good. It sounds like you were fairly happy with it. Was it doughy at all in the middle?
Title: Re: Help recreating - Slab Portland, ME it's such like soft pillow, thoughts?
Post by: stiks47 on June 04, 2019, 02:39:41 AM
I’m impressed they can hand mix a 90% dough. I think I may join in this madness  ;D. That dough has impressive structure that I could never replicate by hand so I will attempt with the mixer.
Title: Re: Help recreating - Slab Portland, ME it's such like soft pillow, thoughts?
Post by: dmaclaren on June 14, 2019, 07:48:52 AM
"and letting the dough rise five times over the course of its three-hour fermentation."

Okay, I really need to break this down.  IN the videos you can see the flip, degas, and cover.  One woman in the vid said for "10 minutes"  so in 3 hours, there could be 3 10 minute flips but I would think that last one is more as it's in the pan and they want it to the rim.  Then there needs to be more spring for the over to take it over the rim and be able to hold up to the sauce and cheese and not flatten out.


5 = -1 pan rise, then 4 flip and covers, yes? 
4 = 40 minutes.

40 Minutes =   flip, degas, 10min rise, flip, degas rise, 10min, flip, degas rise, 10min, flip, degas, 10min rise,
10 - 20 min = Fold and pan rise, sauce, cheese, salt, oregano, oil, bake 15 - 18 MIN @ 550

This is 50 - 60 min, so are we thinking 2 hour to hydrate, mix, first rise?
Is 10 min is enough for some rise in the dough between the degas flip?

Now the Gluten formation and Yeast usage.  How much gluten is needed, in the pic on one link he pulls on dough to show elastic but no window pane gluten  talk here on this one, what does this mean?

Do we need a large % of yeast to get this 5 times rise?  if yes, do we need more Sugar?


I went from producing back to step 1 with more  questions.

Don




Title: Re: Help recreating - Slab Portland, ME it's such like soft pillow, thoughts?
Post by: dmaclaren on June 18, 2019, 12:31:29 PM
I am trying an 80%. Combine,
I am trying an 80%.

Combine, rest 10 min

add oil, mix 2 min rest 10 min

mix 4 min rest 1.5 - hour

then start the punch downs.

 

We shall see
Title: Re: Help recreating - Slab Portland, ME it's such like soft pillow, thoughts?
Post by: dmaclaren on June 18, 2019, 02:46:47 PM
Fail.  Just won't rise in 80 degree proofer, wonder if yeast is junk

Flour (KABF): 100%       390   
Water: 78%                304-   
IDY: 1.25%                 4.8    -    
Salt: 2%                    7.8   
Oil: 2%                      7.8   
Sugar: 2%                    7.8 
Water and oil = 80%

no ability to hold up at all, went to blob and in 3 hours very little rise.  Have kept yeast in freezer too and only take out to pull what I need then back in freezer.   Going to make some bread with over night biga to see if it's still good, I know that recipe and can judge from that
Title: Re: Help recreating - Slab Portland, ME it's such like soft pillow, thoughts?
Post by: dmaclaren on June 18, 2019, 02:57:40 PM
Maybe I need over 2% yeast in this.

Title: Re: Help recreating - Slab Portland, ME it's such like soft pillow, thoughts?
Post by: dmaclaren on June 18, 2019, 06:22:42 PM
I messed it up, balled again, and let rise  long time 

Almost  the same as SLAB but failed process on forming.
Title: Re: Help recreating - Slab Portland, ME it's such like soft pillow, thoughts?
Post by: moosebytes on June 19, 2019, 11:19:13 AM
I messed it up, balled again, and let rise  long time 

Almost  the same as SLAB but failed process on forming.
What did you mess up? This looks pretty darned good to me. Is this what you posted above with 1.25% IDY?
Title: Re: Help recreating - Slab Portland, ME it's such like soft pillow, thoughts?
Post by: dmaclaren on June 20, 2019, 09:31:40 AM
The one posted is the 1.2% 85% hydration.

The second one was 75% hydration and 2.05 (8g) brand new oipened yeast that was frozen but never opened in a vac 1lb container.  so no iussues with this yeasrt


I did the almost double yeast to see how it would rise.  The double in 2.2 hours was great but getting it out of bowl and getting it into place de-gased it completely then it was , I would say, harder to get a rise compared to the 85% in that stage.  In the last rise in pan, it wasn't as high as the 1.2%.

I would have expected more rise in the later rises after bulk in bowl.  I just don't understand why the rise was slower.  I didn't add any sugar though tot he 75%, could that  have caused rise issues?  I know yeast likes sugar but shouldn't need it. 


The second one, without a pic was

100 - Flour - 390
71 - water - 277
2.8 - salt - 10.92
2 - yeast - 7.8
4 - oil - 15.6
75% hydration



The 90% flacvor was nice, texture was very nice, I just want more workable dough.  Maybe I need to give up on that and try to just focus on results and maybe just do the bowl rise then once into the pan and done. 



Oh, I did the 75% in the food processor because I do it with a Sicilian one that is outstanding so I though it would do well.    I will try 80% with food processor today and see.




Title: Re: Help recreating - Slab Portland, ME it's such like soft pillow, thoughts?
Post by: dmaclaren on June 20, 2019, 09:32:36 AM
I am a little all over the place.  Also, I am  using my warming drawer on Proof mode so I am at 80 degrees, they talked about it being hot in there   Maybe too hot?


Title: Re: Help recreating - Slab Portland, ME it's such like soft pillow, thoughts?
Post by: dmaclaren on June 20, 2019, 06:21:17 PM
 Okay I did
Flour (100%): 350 g 
Water (78%): 273 g
IDY (4%): 14 g
Salt (2%): 7 g
Oil (2%): 7 g 
Sugar (2%): 7 g 
Total (188%):   658 g  1/4 baking sheet

Everying but salt and oil in a FOOD PROCESSOR pulse until just combined, 10 min Autolyse
add salt and oil, run for about 45 seconds (nice elastic), put in bowl and rest until doubled @80 about 1.75 hours ( this was like a web so much gasses due to high yeast)
put onto counter, form  into ball like the vid on pulls with  high hydration 
let rest 30 min, flip, degas, push into rectangle
rest 20 min flip
20 min rest and put in pan, rise 35 - 40 min (this did not rise as much hear as I wanted it too
cook on grill about 550 - 600 for 14 minutes.

Flipped up cover neat 12 min because didn't want over cooked top.  I like this processor work as I do it with another dough of 70% that I like a lot.

I didn't get an over yeast yet a pleasant one and the mouth feel was outstanding.

One of the best textures as close to SLAB so far.  The dough held more of the shape after the balling on the first flip.

I will try two more, one back to 1.5% yeast and one at 5% but 80% hydration and same method as I like this the most.


 




Title: Re: Help recreating - Slab Portland, ME it's such like soft pillow, thoughts?
Post by: dmaclaren on June 23, 2019, 04:04:25 PM
Another 80%  GO WITH 4% yeast.  THis is by far the closest dough to the videos that I have done to date.  I m going to bake this one.  What I have so far is

Flour (100%): 350 g | 12.35 oz | 0.77 lbs
Water (78%): 273 g | 9.63 oz | 0.6 lbs
IDY (4%): 14 g | 0.49 oz | 0.03 lbs | 4.65 tsp | 1.55 tbsp
Salt (2%): 7 g | 0.25 oz | 0.02 lbs | 2.06 tsp | 0.69 tbsp
Oil (2%): 7 g | 0.25 oz | 0.02 lbs | 1.56 tsp | 0.52 tbsp
Sugar (2%): 7 g | 0.25 oz | 0.02 lbs | 1.76 tsp | 0.59 tbsp
Total (188%):   658 g | 23.21 oz | 1.45 lbs | TF = N/A 1:15 PM
(80% = 78% water & 2% oil )

Used Food processor.
All but oil and salt, pulse just to incorporate
rest 10 min
add salt oil and turn on for 1 minute (nice and elastic)
rise 1 hour @ 80 degree  little over double happened
form to tension with the pull into you on counter like the vieo to tension skin, heavy flour(sifted on top), rest 30 min
flip, press out gas, four sit 20 min
Flip and pan rest 20 min.

Bake on stone in grill  stone 550 - 575 13 minutes

I will update later   

THe pictures are of a double batch.  I did 2 separate as 2 don't work well in food processor.   Once this formula is right, which I think it is now, I will do a mixer and then hand to test out the results. 

Title: Re: Help recreating - Slab Portland, ME it's such like soft pillow, thoughts?
Post by: dmaclaren on June 23, 2019, 04:06:23 PM
THis is a 1/2 sheet.

Title: Re: Help recreating - Slab Portland, ME it's such like soft pillow, thoughts?
Post by: dmaclaren on June 23, 2019, 09:50:36 PM
Final.

This is my closest and I believe almost spot on.

Sauce, I did San Marzano cooked high heat 5 minutes with some sugar.  Cheese, 50/50 Imported provolone and low moisture whole milk, oregano, pink salt, olive oil. 

Boom, I find this recipe complete.   Now to try some mixer and hand mixed versions.   I love this recipe.



Title: Re: Help recreating - Slab Portland, ME it's such like soft pillow, thoughts?
Post by: DanAyo on June 24, 2019, 02:56:07 PM
Hey Don, Abe (TFL) asked me to take a look at your post. He is out of commission at this time (computer problems).

You are one tenacious guy! I admire your persistence. After reading every single post on TFL and here, I have a suggestion that may help.

First, are you sure they use KABF?

If you want to increase the rise and strength of the dough try acorbic acid.  For a kilo of flour I use as much as 1000mg of vitamin C. Get a 1000mg pill and crush it into fine powder between to spoons. Optionally a mortar and pestle is best. Take a look at this post for more info. http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/56563/tip-could-your-bread-use-little-vitamin-c

I am going to search for an image that shows a comparative test of ascorbic acid vs no ascorbic acid. If I can find it I’ll post it.

The way they bounce the dough as they turn it over and also the resiliency of that dough when they top it screams ascorbic acid or so similar oxidizer...
Title: Re: Help recreating - Slab Portland, ME it's such like soft pillow, thoughts?
Post by: dmaclaren on June 24, 2019, 03:45:47 PM
DanAyo, I had no idea about this.  THey mentioned in a post that they do use the KABF.  I will check out that link and I will try some ascorbic acid.  I will try this tomorrow, and report back.

Hey Don, Abe (TFL) asked me to take a look at your post. He is out of commission at this time (computer problems).

You are one tenacious guy! I admire your persistence. After reading every single post on TFL and here, I have a suggestion that may help.

First, are you sure they use KABF?

If you want to increase the rise and strength of the dough try acorbic acid.  For a kilo of flour I use as much as 1000mg of vitamin C. Get a 1000mg pill and crush it into fine powder between to spoons. Optionally a mortar and pestle is best. Take a look at this post for more info. http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/56563/tip-could-your-bread-use-little-vitamin-c

I am going to search for an image that shows a comparative test of ascorbic acid vs no ascorbic acid. If I can find it I’ll post it.

The way they bounce the dough as they turn it over and also the resiliency of that dough when they top it screams ascorbic acid or so similar oxidizer...
Title: Re: Help recreating - Slab Portland, ME it's such like soft pillow, thoughts?
Post by: DanAyo on June 24, 2019, 04:23:56 PM
Don,
Not sure if you are old enough to remember this, but ascorbic acid is like “Brylcreem – A Little Dab'll Do Ya“
https://youtu.be/o6F4GtyRfto scroll to 0:28 to hear for yourself  :D

For 350g flour, I’d use no more than 1/3 of a tablet (1000mg). You should definitely notice a difference in your dough. I am hoping it will give your dough the same bounce as in the video.

Please be sure to let us know...
Title: Re: Help recreating - Slab Portland, ME it's such like soft pillow, thoughts?
Post by: dmaclaren on June 25, 2019, 08:46:20 AM
So I called and faked an allergy to Ascorbic acid (vit C) and said I wanted to try the pizza and breads.   They said it's not in there but who knows. 

I will try it, hope to maybe today and can't wait to see/feel/texture taste what diff happens.


Title: Re: Help recreating - Slab Portland, ME it's such like soft pillow, thoughts?
Post by: DanAyo on June 25, 2019, 10:11:29 AM
Sorry Don. I can't seem to find the image that I wanted to show you. It compared dough with and without Ascorbic Acid (AA). It is quite impressive.

Here is a shot of a dough using AA. It rose 1/3 more than normal. Keep in mind the dough underwent a very long warm ferment. Without AA the dough wouldn't overflow. The strength and resiliency of the dough is greatly increased. The dough pushed to top up. Like the SLAB video, this dough is bouncy...
Title: Re: Help recreating - Slab Portland, ME it's such like soft pillow, thoughts?
Post by: dmaclaren on June 25, 2019, 01:27:30 PM
so I have one going and my last one, which I loved was 4% yeast, very high.  This time I did the 1/4 sheet of 350g flour and 3% yeast with the AA

going now

One bad thing is I used 1/2 a tablet, not thinking.  Thoughts on if this is bad on a 3 hr rise?  I crushed it and diluted it in the water.




Title: Re: Help recreating - Slab Portland, ME it's such like soft pillow, thoughts?
Post by: DanAyo on June 25, 2019, 01:54:06 PM
I wouldn’t worry. I use it at 1% and am told that is way too high. Next time (if there is a next time) you may want to reduce the amount.

I am excited to hear your thoughts on the affects of AA.
Title: Re: Help recreating - Slab Portland, ME it's such like soft pillow, thoughts?
Post by: dmaclaren on June 25, 2019, 02:11:45 PM
I wouldn’t worry. I use it at 1% and am told that is way too high. Next time (if there is a next time) you may want to reduce the amount.

I am excited to hear your thoughts on the affects of AA.
so if my math is correct .5 grams (1/2 1000 mg tablet) of 350 flour is .00143 or 1430ppm   is that right?  that's a lot


Okay, I can feel a fifference in this dough after the first 1.5 hours on it

it is stronger and holds more gas and does force that de gas need and it's more bouncy and allows me to handle more.  I kept the 80% hydration and reduced yeast to 3% from 4%

Title: Re: Help recreating - Slab Portland, ME it's such like soft pillow, thoughts?
Post by: DanAyo on June 25, 2019, 04:02:56 PM
Don, mwilson, aka Michael on TFL told me that 0.01% of the total flour weight is a typical dose for AA. I trust him. At this rate 1/3 (.35) of a gram would be right. To be honest I would break 1/3 of a 1000mg pill, crush that and mix it into my dough water to make sure it was dissolved.

When it comes to parts per million, the idea bewilders me :o
Title: Re: Help recreating - Slab Portland, ME it's such like soft pillow, thoughts?
Post by: dmaclaren on June 25, 2019, 05:01:27 PM
OMG, LIFE CHANGING!

Okay, I didn't notice the difference until like 2 hours into it. 
The end was that Jiggly well formed and holding and held the sauce very nice, and I added more than normal.
I went from 4% - 3% and may go back to 2 but leaving for now as I have to test again tomorrow.

Here is the un-cut finish, check out that edge, like 3.5" high and  I would love it if there was on on every pie, that piece was outstanding.

The mouth feel and chew was 100% than the last and it was SPOT ON.  It made you want to eat more and more and non stop.  IT melted in your mouth as you chewed.  It was a complete different pizza.   The last one held the full rise, this one, like slab lost some in the slices just like the one in the hand posted above and it didn't cause it to get tough.

Below are a couple pics.   I can't thank ABE for asking and for you to hit me with that knowledge of AA.  What a relief to finally have people that care in what they do to share.

Title: Re: Help recreating - Slab Portland, ME it's such like soft pillow, thoughts?
Post by: DanAyo on June 25, 2019, 05:54:00 PM
Great Don, I am thrilled hear it worked for. Please continue to post your progress. I know you’ll be micro tweaking it some more. Once you have it where you want it, I am definitely going to give this monstrosity a try!

I’ll email Abe and tell him about your success. He should be back online soon.
Title: Re: Help recreating - Slab Portland, ME it's such like soft pillow, thoughts?
Post by: Pete-zza on June 25, 2019, 07:13:42 PM
Papa John's has been using ascorbic acid in its doughs for years, as can be seen toward the bottom of Reply 492 at:

https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=6758.msg260041#msg260041

I discussed my experience using ascorbic acid in the last paragraph of Reply 336 at:

https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=6758.msg160800#msg160800

I had been earlier told by a PJ R&D employee that PJ used ascorbic acid in lieu of bromates, as I so noted at Reply 135 at:

https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=6758.msg81078;topicseen#msg81078

Peter

Title: Re: Help recreating - Slab Portland, ME it's such like soft pillow, thoughts?
Post by: dmaclaren on June 25, 2019, 11:07:55 PM
Papa John's has been using ascorbic acid in its doughs for years, as can be seen toward the bottom of Reply 492 at:

https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=6758.msg260041#msg260041

I discussed my experience using ascorbic acid in the last paragraph of Reply 336 at:

https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=6758.msg160800#msg160800

I had been earlier told by a PJ R&D employee that PJ used ascorbic acid in lieu of bromates, as I so noted at Reply 135 at:

https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=6758.msg81078;topicseen#msg81078

Peter

(My usage was a lot more than your mention, I used 500mg per 350g of flour and did a 3 hour ferment.  I noticed a huge difference while reducing the already large amount of yeast to get something workable.  I went from 2% in 80% hydration down to 3% with ascorbic and I feel could go lower if needed but the workability of the dough and it held up was outstanding, better than 4Q% yeast and no ascorbic.  The oven spring was also very noticeable and the texture different than the 4% non ascorbic and it was perfect.
Title: Re: Help recreating - Slab Portland, ME it's such like soft pillow, thoughts?
Post by: DreamingOfPizza on June 29, 2019, 08:02:43 PM
Congrats! Its looking better ans better every time. Do you have a final recipe or you still tweaking the aa/ yeast?
Title: Re: Help recreating - Slab Portland, ME it's such like soft pillow, thoughts?
Post by: dmaclaren on June 30, 2019, 02:19:27 PM
Congrats! Its looking better ans better every time. Do you have a final recipe or you still tweaking the aa/ yeast?

going to do another one tomorrow Monday another go to see if it's on par with the last one.
Title: Re: Help recreating - Slab Portland, ME it's such like soft pillow, thoughts?
Post by: EricV on July 02, 2019, 09:09:46 AM
Looking forward hearing your progression on achieving a recipe as close as possible to SLAB. I've only been to Slab once and still crave that slice.  I tried the last recipe you posted with the AA added.  It was nice but lacked the buttery pillowy goodness of slab.  I have a 2 oven wolf and can only get close to 500, probably more like 475.  Not sure if that is my issue or not.  Looking forward to see how your latest version comes out.  Eric
Title: Re: Help recreating - Slab Portland, ME it's such like soft pillow, thoughts?
Post by: DanAyo on July 05, 2019, 10:33:03 PM
Don, in reply #26 the poster (ebpizza) makes an interesting point. He waits to add the cheese later in the bake. It seems omitting the heavy toppings initially would allow greater oven spring. Then after the sauce covered crust sets a bite and is stronger, the other toppings could be added.

What do you think?

OH! I didn’t get around to trying the SLAB for the Fourth of July. Too many other pizzas to deal with that day. But my turn is soon to come...
Title: Re: Help recreating - Slab Portland, ME it's such like soft pillow, thoughts?
Post by: dmaclaren on July 07, 2019, 03:22:01 PM
Looking forward hearing your progression on achieving a recipe as close as possible to SLAB. I've only been to Slab once and still crave that slice.  I tried the last recipe you posted with the AA added.  It was nice but lacked the buttery pillowy goodness of slab.  I have a 2 oven wolf and can only get close to 500, probably more like 475.  Not sure if that is my issue or not.  Looking forward to see how your latest version comes out.  Eric

My last one was almost right on with slab, the higher heat is very key.  Even 500 is reducing the result.  Better with 550 - 600 stone in the 500 oven (grill heated) and 550 - 575 on the grill full cook then lifting lid near end if too much browning was the best. 

With that low heat, maybe reduce 5% hydration.  Are you using a stone?  can you get it hotter with broil then when cooking go to bake. 


As mentioned, maybe try parbake first.   I just don't like parbaking dough, but if you have to.
Title: Re: Help recreating - Slab Portland, ME it's such like soft pillow, thoughts?
Post by: EricV on July 08, 2019, 10:53:17 AM
Don -  I did a full 11x17 tray on a stone in the grill and I got really close to perfection.  Unfortunately I had a hard time gauging temperature as a storm came through and I had to grill in the rain.  While the temp Guage on my webber grill read 475, I am sure the temperature was probably more like 650.  I could only bake for 10 mins as the crust started to burn on the bottom of the edges --  both cause of the high heat and my stone is round and didn't protect the edges and corners.  Despite this I got beautiful peaks and valleys and a near similar crust to Slab other than the burnt areas.  I'll try again in better weather and work on getting the sauce and cheese perfected.  I want to use 50/50 fresh grated high quality mozzarella and provolone.  For the sauce San marzano I will cook for a few minutes in a pan with some salt, sugar, garlic and basil.   I was amazed at how close I got and think perfection on this is in the future.  I also think I may be able to use the oven if I use broil and a large stone to get the oven as hot as possible before putting the pizza tray in and then switching it to bake.  Eric
Title: Re: Help recreating - Slab Portland, ME it's such like soft pillow, thoughts?
Post by: ebpizza on July 31, 2019, 07:08:09 AM
More video of Slab dough and pizza

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gV_DQ90LRMI
Title: Re: Help recreating - Slab Portland, ME it's such like soft pillow, thoughts?
Post by: stiks47 on August 02, 2019, 11:31:13 PM
Don, is this dough only a 3 hour rise? If so, does it have much flavor? Looks gorgeous!
Title: Re: Help recreating - Slab Portland, ME it's such like soft pillow, thoughts?
Post by: dmaclaren on August 07, 2019, 06:19:46 PM
I just saw that Pizza episode last night. 

yes, 3 hr rise, yes good yeast flavor, works well.


I was up there this weekend and saw that they let it rise in the bowl for a long time.  So with 5 10 minute rise, as mentioned in the link, that's really bulk in bowl for 2:10 then start the punch and rises.


I will try again and see how that works out.


Title: Re: Help recreating - Slab Portland, ME it's such like soft pillow, thoughts?
Post by: PieMonster on August 16, 2019, 01:35:56 PM
Hi Don,
With regards to an older post regarding Micucci's sauce.  Have you seen the video tour of their sauce bottler?  https://youtu.be/mO-QbUeSxVo  They show a different sauce being made but I gleaned that any bottled sauce would need to be heated and that since 7/11 ground tomatoes are used to make this sauce...there's a good chance they're using them in their Marinara sauce too.

Back to your dough recipe, if Micucci's doesn't use Ascorbic Acid, could they possibly be using Diastic Malt? I came across the term last week reading a thread praising the Pizza Bible.  Wasn't familiar with the stuff.  And according to Bakerpedia (https://bakerpedia.com/ingredients/diastatic-malt/)
"Diastatic malt powder contains active amylase that is part of the sprouting process. There are two forms of amylase; alpha and beta. Both of which turn starches into sugars, creating food for the yeast. ...Not only does diastatic malt act as a sweetener, it also improves loaf volume, texture, and overall flavor."   My thoughts were that the sugar production would assist in a stronger rise just before baking.  Just thought I'd bring this to your attention since no one else has mentioned it yet.


Title: Re: Help recreating - Slab Portland, ME it's such like soft pillow, thoughts?
Post by: dmaclaren on October 13, 2019, 03:16:05 PM
I finally made it to SLAB, the actual place Steven Lansalatta (sp?) is at now. 

I found their diagram of steps they take after their bulk rise and I talked to him a little on his process, I didn't get it all but some more information.   So I will update this information soon and post the picture of the process it goes through.  It looks like I will need to reduce the amount of yeast I use as well. 

His rise was super outstanding!  way more than I am getting and the softness was  2x as mine.   Need to adjust and try again  But, I have to stop the Mixer or food processor for the softness and rise as he was explaning the few times he comes back to the dough and works it by hand.  he does wait like 20 minutes in between mixing.
Title: Re: Help recreating - Slab Portland, ME it's such like soft pillow, thoughts?
Post by: dmaclaren on October 17, 2019, 03:12:54 PM
Spoke with the guy.

 

He makes 18lbs at a time

He said he does not use a lot of yeast

He said he mixes it a little then rest 30 minutes and does this a few times.

Then you can see the process after  I think three mixes and there is the process on the image.

 

I may eliminate the oil in the usage and try again.

 
Title: Re: Help recreating - Slab Portland, ME it's such like soft pillow, thoughts?
Post by: scott r on October 17, 2019, 05:05:18 PM
Put Apizza Scholls on your list too!

Hans, I wish Brian was over here!   This is the other Portland :)
Title: Re: Help recreating - Slab Portland, ME it's such like soft pillow, thoughts?
Post by: HansB on October 17, 2019, 05:26:15 PM
Yeah, it would be easier to get to! I should have read the topic title!  :-D
Title: Re: Help recreating - Slab Portland, ME it's such like soft pillow, thoughts?
Post by: dmaclaren on October 18, 2019, 01:45:34 PM
I am trying one today.  I was thinking maybe my previous ones were lacking enough dough so I went with a bigger dough ball like Moose did.

I am doing the following process.
I may be over doing it on the 4 scoop/folds and maybe next time, if I don't like the turn out, do 3 with 1 hr rest after it

Today's process:

----------------------------------------------------
- Mix all and just incorporate

1:
- 30 scoop/fold
- 30 min rest   - 30 minutes - .5hr

2:
- 30 scoop/fold
- 30 min rest   - 60 minutes - 1hr

3:
- 30 scoop/fold
- 30 min rest   - 90 minutes - 1.5hr

4:
- 30 scoop/fold
- 30 min rest   - 90 minutes - 2hr

5:
- Do process - 45 min - 2.75hr
   - remove from bowl / rest 5 min - 5min
   - Round / rest 10 min - 15min
   - Pillow (long oval rect) rest 10 min - 25min
   - Flip / Dimple / rest 10 min - 35min
   - Flip / Dimple / rest 10 min - 45min
   
6:
-  put in pan / rest 15min - 3hr

7:
- Cook 15 min 550 - Turn 1/2 way to even cook
Title: Re: Help recreating - Slab Portland, ME it's such like soft pillow, thoughts?
Post by: dmaclaren on October 18, 2019, 03:25:38 PM
Not even going to cook it, no where the structure I was looking for or close to the last one I did that I thought was great.

This one does not have the amount of the pillow and ability to hold up on the flips like my last or the ones they have there 
Title: Re: Help recreating - Slab Portland, ME it's such like soft pillow, thoughts?
Post by: DanAyo on October 18, 2019, 03:34:11 PM
Don, if you can post video snippets Of handling the dough, etc. (maybe on YouTube), some of us might be able to make suggestions.

Do you still find the AA method works best or have you started to do things different?

Just a thought.
Danny
Title: Re: Help recreating - Slab Portland, ME it's such like soft pillow, thoughts?
Post by: dmaclaren on October 21, 2019, 09:58:47 AM
I will do another one this week and post. 

I just can't get the high hydration as  poofy airy dough that doesn't collapse when handles
Title: Re: Help recreating - Slab Portland, ME it's such like soft pillow, thoughts?
Post by: DanAyo on October 21, 2019, 12:01:30 PM
Sounds right, Don. High hydration dough is too fragile and poofy to be handled the way the SLAB requires. I forget how long the dough ferments but given enough time as the dough ferments it will become more slack and poofy.

How long does the dough BF?
Title: Re: Help recreating - Slab Portland, ME it's such like soft pillow, thoughts?
Post by: dmaclaren on October 22, 2019, 09:22:41 AM
So I called the other place, the deli and was asking for some specifics.  Well, I got the person to start to give me the recipe.

1 CUP IY (SAF Red Instant Yeast)
18 lbs KABF
3 lbs Semolina (new addition)

Time to bring it down to a useable recipe.  I was not going to push to get the water salt and if Oil and sugar)

now, lets chat what Semolina brings?



Okay, I just called SLAB and asked them more information.

I thought when I went it looked more yellowish and rise was more than the other place. 

From them, they do 18lb batches. and the guy was talking about the yeast is a lot and smells like alcohol when you open the oven.

so they said:
18lb batch
7lb KABF
3lb Semolina
3.2oz SAF red yeast
8lb water

I didn't ask salt, sugar, oil
- Yeast, they are at 3.2% yeast where I had great results with straight 4% and 3% with 500mg Ascorbic acid.
- Water  They are at the 80% liek you mentioned.
- Big change though is the semolina addition.

Now it comes to process in layering te build up like the guy mentioned to me.  And all hand done







Title: Re: Help recreating - Slab Portland, ME it's such like soft pillow, thoughts?
Post by: DanAyo on October 22, 2019, 09:40:45 AM
Don, 1 cup of yeast sounds crazy! Do you think they are messing with you?

Also SAF RED is used for dough with high sugar content.

What do you think?
Title: Re: Help recreating - Slab Portland, ME it's such like soft pillow, thoughts?
Post by: dmaclaren on October 22, 2019, 09:56:29 AM
Slab gave me 1/2 batch.  \
8 lb water
10lb KABF
3lb Semolina
3.2oz SAF red yeast - 3.2%

Guy said their yeast is very active as it smell like alcohol opening the oven
I didn't push anything else at that point.
Using Semolina is a big change and also I noticed yellow tint in their dough
They also said no Ascorbic acid.





Don, 1 cup of yeast sounds crazy! Do you think they are messing with you?

Also SAF RED is used for dough with high sugar content.

What do you think?
Title: Re: Help recreating - Slab Portland, ME it's such like soft pillow, thoughts?
Post by: dmaclaren on October 22, 2019, 04:48:35 PM
I was wrong on the 3.2 ounces per their 10 lbs of dough  I forgot to take the 10 into OZ.  so 3.2/160=2%
Title: Re: Help recreating - Slab Portland, ME it's such like soft pillow, thoughts?
Post by: dmaclaren on October 23, 2019, 09:23:01 AM
I didn't not find much difference using this method of working the dough multiple times before the forming in the diagram.  I didn't feel I got the rise.  Also the adding of Semolina didn't do much. 



I think I will stick to my Food processor method as it's a ton less work and closer results.  I am stumped on their process and getting it to work.


I may try my last successful process just add the semolina

Flour (100%): 350 g 
    KABF (.77): 269g
   Semolina (.23): 81g
Water (80%): 280g 
IDY (3.4%): 12 g 
Salt (2%): 7 g 
Oil (2%): 7 g
Sugar (4%): 14 g 
Ascorbic Acid 500MG tablet (crushed and disolvd in the water)


More info from Slab.

1.5 hours is the hand mixing.
Room temp rise (thinking it's warm)
pull and fold over 3 - 4 times every 15 minutes.
elongate the gluten and not break the gluten strands.
so that would
- Initial mix
- 5 folds
- Process

So another try then

Also,, this is the amount they have in the front   with all that Sugar, do you think it's a huge % they use?  I mean, that's a lot of sugar and Danyo mentioned SAF and a lot of sugar.









Title: Re: Help recreating - Slab Portland, ME it's such like soft pillow, thoughts?
Post by: dmaclaren on October 23, 2019, 02:35:57 PM
I have done the Following this time and I like results so far to go into a 2/3 rds pan.
868 - Flour 100%
       668 - KABF       77%
       199 - Semolina  23%
737 - Water -  85%
26 - Yeast 3%
34 - Sugar 4%
18 - salt 2%
** No Oil in this one only as I forgot.   If it's fine I will leave it. 

- Mix  rest 15 min - 15 min
- Fold rest 15 min - 30 min (each stretch fold is 4 times with rotation)
- Fold rest 15 min - 45 min
- Fold rest 15 min - 60 min
- Fold rest  15 min - 75 min
- Fold rest  15 min - 90 min

* See Balled pics, this is after 90 minutes


- Do process - 45 min - 2.75hr
   - remove from bowl / rest 5 min - 5min
   - Round / rest 10 min - 15min
   - Pillow (long oval rect) rest 10 min - 25min
   - Flip / Dimple / rest 10 min - 35min
   - Flip / Dimple / rest 10 min - 45min

- Oil 1/2 sheet and place in pan (envelope fold it then place and open up)
- rest 15 - 20 min
- Sauce and place in preheated 550 (with stone) oven or grill
- Bake 13 - 15 minutes. 
- rest 5 - 10 minutes as it holds the heat very well






Title: Re: Help recreating - Slab Portland, ME it's such like soft pillow, thoughts?
Post by: dmaclaren on October 23, 2019, 04:14:50 PM
SO far the results
Title: Re: Help recreating - Slab Portland, ME it's such like soft pillow, thoughts?
Post by: dmaclaren on October 23, 2019, 04:24:33 PM
The only thing left is to let cool then cut and taste.  I think it's going to be the final version but I think I need to cut the amount of flor back about 5 - 10%.  Maybe try 80% hydration as well and need to think about oil next time (if it's not super soft and tender)


Everything had the look and feel going into the bake,

Title: Re: Help recreating - Slab Portland, ME it's such like soft pillow, thoughts?
Post by: dmaclaren on October 23, 2019, 04:34:01 PM
Crumb and taste.

I think this, compared to my last visit, is just about spot on.  I am not sure about the oil usage now or going down to 80% hydration but I think I may try it.

Title: Re: Help recreating - Slab Portland, ME it's such like soft pillow, thoughts?
Post by: Chicago Bob on October 23, 2019, 04:54:31 PM
Crumb and taste.

I think this, compared to my last visit, is just about spot on.  I am not sure about the oil usage now or going down to 80% hydration but I think I may try it.

   Awesome Don....faaantastic job there!!   :chef:.  :drool:
Title: Re: Help recreating - Slab Portland, ME it's such like soft pillow, thoughts?
Post by: dmaclaren on October 23, 2019, 08:06:19 PM
   Awesome Don....faaantastic job there!!   :chef:.  :drool:

Thanks, I have been trying to get this right for a while now and it's a very hands on dough, most would find it too much work.  I started it and needed to cross this off the todo list and get a win!


Although it took a while, my neighbors love me a lot more!
Title: Re: Help recreating - Slab Portland, ME it's such like soft pillow, thoughts?
Post by: dmaclaren on October 26, 2019, 09:27:12 AM
I could not edit the previous one so here is final recipe/process/thoughts.

I have done the Following this time and I like results so far to go into a 2/3 rds pan.
868 - Flour 100%
       694 - KABF 80%
       173 - Semolina  20%
737 - Water  85% ( may try 80%)
26 - Yeast 3%
34 - Sugar 4%
18 - salt 2%
** No Oil in this one only as I forgot. (I found this to be great, guess none needed)

- Mix  rest 15 min - 15 min
- Fold rest 15 min - 30 min (each stretch fold is 4 - 5 times with rotation)
- Fold rest 15 min - 45 min
- Fold rest 15 min - 60 min
- Fold rest 15 min - 75 min
- Fold rest 15 min - 90 min

* See Balled pics, this is after 90 minutes

 
- Do process - 45 min - 2.75hr
   - ** See note below first
   - remove from bowl / rest 5 min - 5min
   - Round / rest 10 min - 15min
   - Pillow (long oval rect) rest 10 min - 25min
   - Flip / Dimple / rest 10 min - 35min
   - Flip / Dimple / rest 10 min - 45min

- Oil 1/2 sheet and place in pan (envelope fold it then place and open up)
- rest 15 - 20 min
- Sauce and place in preheated 550 (with stone) oven or grill
- Bake 13 - 15 minutes.
- rest 5 - 10 minutes as it holds the heat very well

** Flouring
 You must flour to form a little skin and keep from sticking as it will deflate when trying to move it.  Also, be gentle with this in all steps.  Flouring is done through dusting with a strainer to keep from clumping.
 
 Before you remove it, from the bowl, flour the top and little more at the edges, let it sit a couple minutes.  I took a scraper and pushed the edges a little to work the flour around the edge to make the removal easier.
 
 Once out, dust the top and let sit.
 Dust as needed each step until in the pan.



--------------------------------------------------

I would say that you could reduce the amount of flour by 10% as it was crowding the pan a little.  This made a 1/2 bakers sheet. 

 

Texture - Super soft and billowy.  You can eat a ton as it eats super easy and not as heavy as it feels when holding it.

 

It's a fun pizza, something different but a lot of touching and steps but after making many many of these, you need to follow the process.   If you want to touch it as little as possible then check the version in the spread sheet previous for the food processor and ascorbic acid way and you can be close but it will not be as soft and light while eating.
Title: Re: Help recreating - Slab Portland, ME it's such like soft pillow, thoughts?
Post by: dmaclaren on November 04, 2019, 03:09:26 PM
Here is the process
Title: Re: Help recreating - Slab Portland, ME it's such like soft pillow, thoughts?
Post by: dmaclaren on November 08, 2019, 09:44:38 PM
made these with the dough.  my life is better after making these.  best thin crispy skin and soft inside ever.  make toast, no butter can can make the crunch go away.  wow!!!
Title: Re: Help recreating - Slab Portland, ME it's such like soft pillow, thoughts?
Post by: dmaclaren on November 08, 2019, 09:46:37 PM
and
Title: Re: Help recreating - Slab Portland, ME it's such like soft pillow, thoughts?
Post by: parallei on November 09, 2019, 10:53:33 AM
made these with the dough.  my life is better after making these.  best thin crispy skin and soft inside ever.  make toast, no butter can can make the crunch go away.  wow!!!

Nice!  Gotta love ZzaBread.  Or is it Breadzza?
Title: Re: Help recreating - Slab Portland, ME it's such like soft pillow, thoughts?
Post by: thezaman on December 16, 2019, 10:52:47 AM
this is a nice thread. well thought out. great results.can you point to the sauce recipe?
Title: Re: Help recreating - Slab Portland, ME it's such like soft pillow, thoughts?
Post by: dmaclaren on December 21, 2019, 07:35:54 AM
this is a nice thread. well thought out. great results.can you point to the sauce recipe?

I just use Tuttorosso Crushed Tomato with a little sugar and cook for 5 - 10 minutes med heat.  They have a cooked tomato sauce that is sweet  I like less cooked and some sweet notes.  So, I am keeping it simple. 

The main focus was bread and texture so experiment on your sauce

Title: Re: Help recreating - Slab Portland, ME it's such like soft pillow, thoughts?
Post by: dmaclaren on March 07, 2020, 03:24:08 PM
Slab gave me 1/2 batch.  \
8 lb water
10lb KABF
3lb Semolina
3.2oz SAF red yeast - 3.2%

Guy said their yeast is very active as it smell like alcohol opening the oven
I didn't push anything else at that point.
Using Semolina is a big change and also I noticed yellow tint in their dough
They also said no Ascorbic acid.

I was just going back through, this can't be right as it would bale the hydration like 62%.  I didn't hear something right.  I will call and find out if they will tell me hydration %
 
Title: Re: Help recreating - Slab Portland, ME it's such like soft pillow, thoughts?
Post by: rp0806 on April 27, 2020, 08:52:46 AM
I made this yesterday and was very happy with the results (forgot to take photos). I've been to Slab a couple times and tried to recreate the recipe on my own, but this is several orders of magnitude closer to the original.  It's very light and airy, and has good flavor despite the short rise.

I didn't have semolina, so I just used straight bread flour. And I used a mixer with the paddle attachment rather than the food processor. The main thing I'd do differently would be to do a longer mix at the beginning. I mixed for about 5 minutes at low speed on the assumption that the stretch and folds would build enough gluten, but next time I'd mix for at least a couple more minutes. 
Title: Re: Help recreating - Slab Portland, ME it's such like soft pillow, thoughts?
Post by: dmaclaren on May 21, 2020, 07:41:30 AM
I made this yesterday and was very happy with the results (forgot to take photos). I've been to Slab a couple times and tried to recreate the recipe on my own, but this is several orders of magnitude closer to the original.  It's very light and airy, and has good flavor despite the short rise.

I didn't have semolina, so I just used straight bread flour. And I used a mixer with the paddle attachment rather than the food processor. The main thing I'd do differently would be to do a longer mix at the beginning. I mixed for about 5 minutes at low speed on the assumption that the stretch and folds would build enough gluten, but next time I'd mix for at least a couple more minutes.


This is all hand mixing, it could be why it wasn't as close.  You have to create LONG gluten strands and mixer will not.  You need to build this over the 3 hour time and it needs the process.  Glad you had great results though.
Title: Re: Help recreating - Slab Portland, ME it's such like soft pillow, thoughts?
Post by: wotavidone on June 06, 2020, 05:10:02 PM
I gave the semolina addition a try.

Dough was very wet for the same amount of water I've been using.
Ended up adding a little extra flour (30g) to get it to form a ball in the twin spiral mixer.
Somewhere in this thread is the comment that the mix given by Slab must have been wrong because the % hydration given was only in the 60-odd percent range, and that's not high hydration.
But that's the thing isn't it? No two flours absorb the same amount of water. What is normal hydration for one flour could well be high hydration, wet and hard to handle, for another mix.
Visually the crumb didn't look a lot different - maybe slightly darker, off-white rather than pure white.
I think my IDY is getting very inactive.
Time for a new container, I think.

In the end though, it came out nice, lots of oven spring despite me thinking the dough was flat, and definitely a flavour improvement.