Pizza Making Forum

General Topics => Pizza Making Equipment => Prep Equipment => Topic started by: Jackie Tran on June 30, 2021, 11:33:38 PM

Title: First impressions and review of the Famag IM-5S Spiral mixer
Post by: Jackie Tran on June 30, 2021, 11:33:38 PM
After 8-9 yrs of using a Classic 5qt KA mixer, I finally decided to pull the trigger on a spiral mixer.  My curiosity about the necessity of a "real" mixer for making NP dough has finally pushed me over the edge.   I have used the KA extensively and thoroughly and I want to know if having a fancy mixer will make any difference if at all for my doughs.  Although I don't make a classic (VPN) dough, I am familiar with my dough and my desired crust qualities soa I will be able to tell how much of a difference this mixer will make compared to my KA dough. 
I will also do a review of the mixer and attempt to answer some questions for those who are curious. 

I ordered the Famag IM-5S from pleasanthillgrain.com after some very helpful discussion and advice  from members Scott R and Alex (Doouball).   I ordered this mixer back in the beginning of March and it has been on backorder since then.  I even considered canceling the order several times, but it has finally arrived.   The mixer came packed very well.

More info can be found here.
https://pleasanthillgrain.com/famag-high-hydration-grilletta-spiral-dough-mixer




Title: Re: First impressions and review of the Famag IM-5S Spiral mixer
Post by: Jon in Albany on July 01, 2021, 08:47:23 AM
Looking forward to seeing your thoughts on this mixer. I still mix by hand but have been keeping an eye on these home sized spiral mixers.
Title: Re: First impressions and review of the Famag IM-5S Spiral mixer
Post by: 02ebz06 on July 01, 2021, 11:00:48 AM
Looking forward to your review as well.
Been thinking about getting one if/when my Viking mixer dies.
Title: Re: First impressions and review of the Famag IM-5S Spiral mixer
Post by: billg on July 01, 2021, 05:37:28 PM

Best piece of advice I can give is to pay close attention to the dough temperature.  These little buggers develop gluten real fast and can heat the dough faster than usual.  They are dough machines!!!!! 
Title: Re: First impressions and review of the Famag IM-5S Spiral mixer
Post by: Jackie Tran on July 01, 2021, 07:02:39 PM
I did notice that last night making my first batch of dough.  I put a few pieces of ice in the water but the dough still heated up very quickly.  I think my finishing dough temp was at 78F.   I will have to start off with more ice next time. 
Title: Re: First impressions and review of the Famag IM-5S Spiral mixer
Post by: jsobolew on July 01, 2021, 07:19:19 PM
I have the IM-10 and while it's a well built, sturdy mixer, there is always a bunch of flour at the bottom of the bowl that doesn't get fully mixed in unless I get my hands in there and manually mix it. I feel a little foolish mixing it partially by hand when I spent $1,600 on this mixer. My pop-up business exploded and I'm already looking at a larger mixer anyways.
Title: Re: First impressions and review of the Famag IM-5S Spiral mixer
Post by: billg on July 01, 2021, 07:22:02 PM
I did notice that last night making my first batch of dough.  I put a few pieces of ice in the water but the dough still heated up very quickly.  I think my finishing dough temp was at 78F.   I will have to start off with more ice next time.

Under 80f should be ok.  I sometimes put my flour in the fridge the night before and use cold water. 
Title: Re: First impressions and review of the Famag IM-5S Spiral mixer
Post by: billg on July 01, 2021, 07:32:41 PM
I have the IM-10 and while it's a well built, sturdy mixer, there is always a bunch of flour at the bottom of the bowl that doesn't get fully mixed in unless I get my hands in there and manually mix it. I feel a little foolish mixing it partially by hand when I spent $1,600 on this mixer. My pop-up business exploded and I'm already looking at a larger mixer anyways.

Do you have the new or updated breaker bar from Famag? 
Title: Re: First impressions and review of the Famag IM-5S Spiral mixer
Post by: billg on July 01, 2021, 07:35:20 PM
I have the IM-10 and while it's a well built, sturdy mixer, there is always a bunch of flour at the bottom of the bowl that doesn't get fully mixed in unless I get my hands in there and manually mix it. I feel a little foolish mixing it partially by hand when I spent $1,600 on this mixer. My pop-up business exploded and I'm already looking at a larger mixer anyways.

Here's a picture:
https://piratespizzashack.com/products/offset-breaker-bar-for-famag-im8-fixed-head
Title: Re: First impressions and review of the Famag IM-5S Spiral mixer
Post by: Jackie Tran on July 01, 2021, 08:08:45 PM
Do you have the new or updated breaker bar from Famag?

Yes.  It is angled closer to the mixing arm.  Here you can see the clearance between the mixing arm and the bar.   I would have liked to see even less clearance but perhaps the folks at Famag know a thing or two about mixers that I don't. 

I pulled an image off of YouTube that was a post 4 month ownership review and the angle of the breaker bar "appears" more acute.  Mine is the one in red. 
Title: Re: First impressions and review of the Famag IM-5S Spiral mixer
Post by: Jackie Tran on July 01, 2021, 08:19:18 PM
Jsobolew, as far as unmixed flour at the bottom of the bowl, I didn't not notice any on the maiden voyage last night.  I made a 650gm dough using KAAP flour with an effective hydration of 61%.   I put all the flour in first and dissolved the CY and salt in the water and added that in increments.  Softened lard was added after all the water was taken up by the flour.   I did use a spatula to help direct the dough back towards the center bar because my dough batch was so small.  Perhaps that played a role in an even mix.   After the dough was removed, I did note a few scant scraps of wet dough stuck to corner edge of the mixing bowl.

https://youtu.be/k_RB2eAD3vc



Title: Re: First impressions and review of the Famag IM-5S Spiral mixer
Post by: jsobolew on July 01, 2021, 08:20:32 PM
Do you have the new or updated breaker bar from Famag?

Yes, mine looks like the one pictured with the breaker bar that bends in. The problem is that the spiral never gets to the edge of the bowl where flour collects. Also there is a pretty big gap under the breaker bar where flour kinds just settles and there is usually a chunk of crusty dough left on the bottom of the bowl in that area. I've tried a bunch of different work flows (water first, flour first, all at once, etc.) and nothing seems to fix it except mixing it partially by hand.
Title: Re: First impressions and review of the Famag IM-5S Spiral mixer
Post by: Jackie Tran on July 01, 2021, 08:35:51 PM
Jsobolew, what is your normal batch size, what type of flour are you using and what is the hydration of the dough?
Title: Re: First impressions and review of the Famag IM-5S Spiral mixer
Post by: Elchimi on July 01, 2021, 08:42:16 PM
I like to do 100% biga from fridge with the spiral mixer, the dough doesnít get that warm then
Title: Re: First impressions and review of the Famag IM-5S Spiral mixer
Post by: jsobolew on July 01, 2021, 08:47:55 PM
Jsobolew, what is your normal batch size, what type of flour are you using and what is the hydration of the dough?

I used to do a 9.6Kg batch which is pretty much the upper end of what it's capable of. Now I do 2x 6.4Kg batches. 67-69% hydration, a blend of All Trumps and Central Milling 00 flour.
Title: Re: First impressions and review of the Famag IM-5S Spiral mixer
Post by: Jackie Tran on July 01, 2021, 08:55:43 PM
100% biga from the fridge with a mix of ATs flour  at 67-69% hydration?  That sounds like a very strong dough.  It makes sense that you have some bits of unincorporated flour.   Do you ball after a short rest and bake the same day or do your doughballs go back in the fridge for a cold rest for the next day.  Any pictures of your pies?  And you are making hybrid style pies? 2-3min bakes?   Feel free to send me a PM if you'd rather not post details of your dough.  I would completely understand. 

Chau
Title: Re: First impressions and review of the Famag IM-5S Spiral mixer
Post by: jsobolew on July 01, 2021, 09:06:25 PM
100% biga from the fridge with a mix of ATs flour  at 67-69% hydration?  That sounds like a very strong dough.  It makes sense that you have some bits of unincorporated flour.   Do you ball after a short rest and bake the same day or do your doughballs go back in the fridge for a cold rest for the next day.  Any pictures of your pies?  And you are making hybrid style pies? 2-3min bakes?   Feel free to send me a PM if you'd rather not post details of your dough.  I would completely understand. 

Chau
I use a sourdough starter, not biga. I think maybe you got me mixed up with someone else above. I ball after a short rest, leave out for a few hours then fridge for 1-3 days. Yeah, they're hybrid pies, 16", 2-3min bakes.
Title: Re: First impressions and review of the Famag IM-5S Spiral mixer
Post by: jsobolew on July 01, 2021, 09:09:35 PM
Hereís a few of my pies.
Title: Re: First impressions and review of the Famag IM-5S Spiral mixer
Post by: Jackie Tran on July 01, 2021, 09:09:40 PM
 :-D You're right.  I was reading on my mobile phone and read your post and the previous person who uses 100% biga and combined the info in my mind.  Lol.  My bad.   I was like wow...100% biga and ATs.   Must be a really strong dough!!   Ok. Makes more sense now.   ;D

And those pies are absolutely gorgeous 😍
Title: Re: First impressions and review of the Famag IM-5S Spiral mixer
Post by: billg on July 01, 2021, 09:20:12 PM
Billg, as far as unmixed flour at the bottom of the bowl, I didn't not notice any on the maiden voyage last night.  I made a 650gm dough using KAAP flour with an effective hydration of 61%.   I put all the flour in first and dissolved the CY and salt in the water and added that in increments.  Softened lard was added after all the water was taken up by the flour.   I did use a spatula to help direct the dough back towards the center bar because my dough batch was so small.  Perhaps that played a role in an even mix.   After the dough was removed, I did note a few scant scraps of wet dough stuck to corner edge of the mixing bowl.

https://youtu.be/k_RB2eAD3vc

I think you are referring to jsobolew's post about the flour.  I have not had any problem with the Sunmix or Famag with flour that was unmixed.  I had a problem with the Famag with smaller dough batches and dough temps, but the famag 10 I owned did not have the offset breaker bar which I believe has now been addressed.  The biggest issue with both brands is dough temperature.  I thought it was more of an issue with the Famag and that is why I sold it.  I just had to work too hard to get it right.  I wish the offset bar was available before I sold it because I bought it for a great price.
Title: Re: First impressions and review of the Famag IM-5S Spiral mixer
Post by: Jackie Tran on July 01, 2021, 09:30:16 PM
My apologies Billg.  I need to get off my phone and read these posts on my laptop where the print is bigger.  My eyesight is getting worse with age and I'm trying to hold off on getting readers.   :-[
Title: Re: First impressions and review of the Famag IM-5S Spiral mixer
Post by: billg on July 01, 2021, 09:35:56 PM
My apologies Billg.  I need to get off my phone and read these posts on my laptop where the print is bigger.  My eyesight is getting worse with age and I'm trying to hold off on getting readers.   :-[

No worries buddy!!!!  That's why I only use the internet on my 27 Inch I Mac LOL.  I just turned 51 and I'm fighting the readers every day ;D
Title: Re: First impressions and review of the Famag IM-5S Spiral mixer
Post by: Jackie Tran on July 01, 2021, 09:36:32 PM
Here are the first pies from the Famag dough I made last night.   I ran out of my usual AP flour and decided to try a 50lb bag of KA AP.   55 & 65s bakes followed by a 3min hybrid pie in my Carbon gas oven.   The results were outstanding. 
Title: Re: First impressions and review of the Famag IM-5S Spiral mixer
Post by: Jackie Tran on July 01, 2021, 09:42:15 PM
No worries buddy!!!!  That's why I only use the internet on my 27 Inch I Mac LOL.  I just turned 51 and I'm fighting the readers every day ;D

I'm right behind you at 48 this year.  ;D
Title: Re: First impressions and review of the Famag IM-5S Spiral mixer
Post by: Heikjo on July 02, 2021, 03:21:09 AM
I wouldnít expect anything else from you, but the question is how you believe the mixer made a difference. Most importantly the final result, but also dough handling.

I have read a fair bit about mixers for NP (and other pizzas) and canít say I have concluded with anything. Talking about RT fermentation 12-48 hours. Some use hand, some cheap mixers, some expensive mixers. All become NP, but how they affect the final product has eluded me thus far. There are expert NP makers in here using only hands (I believe I saw a post by Craig from 2020 where he said he had pretty much dropped the mixer and only work my hand, and not much work at that). Same goes with pizzerias out there, though many use it partly as a mixing machine for large doughs. My conclusion so far is that there are many ways to make a great NP, and how itís mixed may be a smaller contribution to the final result. Then you got some in here who has used hands or planetary mixers a long time and switched to a better mixer and give it lots of praise, so I donít know. Surely there must be some way to explain it all. Tom or Peter may have explained it already a few times. I can also not avoid a suspicion that those who have bought an expensive mixer to be a little biased towards it making a big difference, through no fault of their own. It can be a natural reaction after making a big investment.
Title: Re: First impressions and review of the Famag IM-5S Spiral mixer
Post by: Jackie Tran on July 02, 2021, 08:13:49 AM
Heikjo, my sentiments to your post exactly.  The questions of whether a fork, a diving arm mixer, spiral, or any "fancy italian" mixer would make a difference to the dough, in what way, and more importantly the final eating qualities has been plaguing me for the better part of 10yrs.  That is the goal of this thread, is to do the tests and answer those nagging questions as best as I can. 

I wouldnít expect anything else from you, but the question is how you believe the mixer made a difference. Most importantly the final result, but also dough handling.

I will answer that but first a bit of background info.  When I first started learning to make dough, I decided that I wouldn't use a mixer until I learned as much as I could about making dough by hand.  I spent about 6-8 months hand mixing dough and experimenting with different techniques.  Only after making 70 batches or so, did I purchase my first KA classic mixer with a C hook.  I have also acquired a Bosch Universal mixer and a more current KA with a spiral mixing arm since.  I have mainly used the classic 5 qt KA to make my dough.   Same as other members, I have watched countless dough and pizza making videos from the Italian community and have noted the qualities of their dough.  After mixing and bulk resting and upon dividing, their dough looks and handles a certain way.  The doughballs sitting in the proofing trays, always looks shinny, a bit tacky or wet looking with flatten tops.  Upon opening, the dough always so soft and supple looking, smoothed skin, and bleached white.  Their dough always seems to open very evenly with good strength.  So in learning, I naturally wanted to duplicate these qualities in my dough but in my many dough experiments have never really been able to without a good mixer.   Where do these qualites come from???  Was it in their specific flours used?  Was it the mixer???  Was it the dough method or schedule?  How about the dough maker's experience or technique or was it a combination of all of these factors.  And do these dough qualities translate into better pizza?  Maybe yes maybe no.

 
I have read a fair bit about mixers for NP (and other pizzas) and canít say I have concluded with anything.
And you won't.   Not until you can get your hands on different mixers and do some side by side testing with your go to dough.  Something that you are very familiar with. 

Talking about RT fermentation 12-48 hours.  Some use hand, some cheap mixers, some expensive mixers. All become NP, but how they affect the final product has eluded me thus far.
Me too.  Me too...But I will attempt to help clear up this picture a little if I can. 

There are expert NP makers in here using only hands (I believe I saw a post by Craig from 2020 where he said he had pretty much dropped the mixer and only work my hand, and not much work at that). Same goes with pizzerias out there, though many use it partly as a mixing machine for large doughs. My conclusion so far is that there are many ways to make a great NP, and how itís mixed may be a smaller contribution to the final result.

I did read that same post from Craig.  Craig has a critically sharp mind, so when he posted that there was very little difference if any between Caputo 00 and GM 00 flour I believed him.  In doing my own comparison, I have gotten the same result.  I did get a chance to try Craig's pizzas from his Acunto Oven and I can tell you he makes excellent pies.  The question is if Craig himself has experience with a fancy mixer and his thoughts as to whether it can improve his dough and pizza.

I will say that in my recent experiments with NP with the KA mixer and hand techniques, I have made some excellent eating pies.  I would agree with you that there are many paths to the same destination.  Having the mixer is NOT the end all be all.  It is but one component of the puzzle.  There is still flour selection, hydration, dough and gluten development, proper fermentation, proper baking, and proper eating. 

Then you got some in here who has used hands or planetary mixers a long time and switched to a better mixer and give it lots of praise, so I donít know.
I'm definitely in this camp.  I will explain more on how and why it made a difference to my dough.  What differences I noted in dough as it came off the hook and upon resting.  How differently it proofed up.  How it opened compared to my normal doughs, how it transferred to the peel, how it came off the peel.  How it baked up and how it ate differently. 

Surely there must be some way to explain it all. Tom or Peter may have explained it already a few times. I can also not avoid a suspicion that those who have bought an expensive mixer to be a little biased towards it making a big difference, through no fault of their own. It can be a natural reaction after making a big investment.

There are definite answers but the problem is that reviews, even from the so called experts are riddle with faults.  Most ppl don't have a thorough understanding of  the topic or a good standard to test against. Tests usually aren't rigorous enough, and opinions biased and subjective at best.   Most of us simply don't have the time and inclination to properly test and answer these questions.  It's just a byproduct of being human.  Throw work, family and kids in the mix and the answer becomes further diluted.  LOL.  If Tom or Peter have posted on this topic I haven't seen it.  I've also been away from the forum for several years so maybe Peter can help us find a link. 

As far as being biased after spending $1500 or more on a mixer, I can see that happening.  I will definitly try to avoid this kind of bias.
Title: Re: First impressions and review of the Famag IM-5S Spiral mixer
Post by: HansB on July 02, 2021, 08:41:11 AM
I'll follow this closely. I really want a spiral mixer but just can't pull the trigger. Would my pizza dough improve with a spiral mixer?

When deciding whether or not to buy one I always think of Franco Pepe, considered to be on of the best pizza makers, and put it out of my mind.

I know you'll do impartial testing and I'm looking forward to your results!

https://youtu.be/NrDkUEiK3fw?t=127
Title: Re: First impressions and review of the Famag IM-5S Spiral mixer
Post by: Heikjo on July 02, 2021, 09:45:16 AM
Thanks for the reply, Jackie. I shall follow this topic with great interest.
Title: Re: First impressions and review of the Famag IM-5S Spiral mixer
Post by: Elchimi on July 02, 2021, 10:20:18 AM
I'll follow this closely. I really want a spiral mixer but just can't pull the trigger. Would my pizza dough improve with a spiral mixer?

When deciding whether or not to buy one I always think of Franco Pepe, considered to be on of the best pizza makers, and put it out of my mind.

I know you'll do impartial testing and I'm looking forward to your results!

https://youtu.be/NrDkUEiK3fw?t=127
Hans,
I donít have any experience with the Famag Griletta but I got myself a spiral mixer, a Sunmix 6, a few months ago. Awesome machine, built like a tank, my KA is history and lives a lonely life in storage now.
I assume the Griletta is very similar product from what Iíve seen and is a top product.
Do one need a spiral mixer? Of course you could mix by hand or with other machines, but my hands are achy from kneading dough for years, and I couldínt be more satisfied with my new spiral mixer.
You actually get a great dough development for wheat breads and pizza dough just after a few minutes on low speed. Day and night compared to KA professional 7qt.
Probably need to consistently work with cold water, the dough can heat up if you donít watch it closely, but I havenít ruined a dough yet.
Sunmix6 has a fixed head but the bowl is easy to clean since itís quite wide.
The less hydration the faster the dough heats up (bagel dough gets real warm)
Thatís why I like Biga from fridge, the dough is at 7c and wonít get that warm with mixing.

Here is a video that the Sunmix rep shared with me before I bought the machine.

https://youtu.be/qti3HYREv84
Title: Re: First impressions and review of the Famag IM-5S Spiral mixer
Post by: bifi85 on July 02, 2021, 11:31:17 AM
I thought spiral mixers would be predestined not to heat the dough so much during preparation (even the smaller home machines).

You use a spiral mixer just like any other dough mixer, add tempered water first, followed by the flour, salt, yeast, sugar (if used) and any other dry ingredients, mix at low speed just until all of the flour is whetted, then add the oil while mixing at low speed for 1-minute and finish mixing at second or high speed just until the dough takes on a smooth appearance.....you're done mixing.
Tom Lehmann/The Dough Doctor

Maybe this 2 links can help new Famag owners:
Title: Re: First impressions and review of the Famag IM-5S Spiral mixer
Post by: Jackie Tran on July 02, 2021, 11:53:37 AM
I thought spiral mixers would be predestined not to heat the dough so much during preparation (even the smaller home machines).

Maybe this 2 links can help new Famag owners:
  • How to Use a Famag Dough Mixer (https://www.theperfectloaf.com/guides/how-to-use-a-famag-dough-mixer/)
  • How to Fix the Famag Bowl Lock (https://wheatbeat.com/how-to-fix-the-famag-bowl-lock/)

Thank you for posting these links.  I have read that how to use guide on the Fresh loaf before.  My first batch of dough made 2 nights ago, I added all of the flour in first.  For today's batch I will add all of the water in first and the flour in big increments to see if I can tell the difference in mix times if any. 
Title: Re: First impressions and review of the Famag IM-5S Spiral mixer
Post by: billg on July 02, 2021, 01:11:33 PM


Many people use flour and yeast first, then add about 60-70% of the water, adding more in stages, then salt.  I have done both methods and I think I like flour and yeast first.  The jury is still out on that one.
Title: Re: First impressions and review of the Famag IM-5S Spiral mixer
Post by: Jackie Tran on July 02, 2021, 01:19:55 PM
I wanted to post my first impressions of the mixer, the dough, and thoughts on the pies I posted last night. 

First off, I make small batches of dough.  Usually 500gm of dough or so as I make 3 tester pies and there is usually only 2 ppl eating.  I often make pizza 3-4 times a week, for months on end.  Making small pies is a good way to not get sick of eating pizza and to minimize the amount of ingredients wasted if the pies aren't entirely consumed. 

Finding a small enough commercial mixer to handle this small of a batch is next to impossible.  Up until a few years ago, I don't even think any existed.  Although I've read that the Sunmix mixer maybe a better quality or better built and possibly longer lasting mixer, I chose the Famag for it's tilting head and removeable bowl option.  I believe you can also order the Famag with a FIXED head as well, the IM-5 as oppose to the IM-5S.   You can also order the high hydration (HH) model as well which is maybe $60 more.  That's the one I ordered but visually I can't tell if they sent me the IM-5S or the IM-5S HH.  There is no difference visually between the two and even the HH model has the same model printed on the sticker on the mixer as the non HH model.  I'll have to call PHG and ask them. 

The mixer came packaged very well and there was no damage to the box or mixer.  There is no assembly required other than to put it on a stand and plug it in.  There is a small metal bar you can screw into the back of the mixer used to wrap your cord around for storage or transport.   The IM-5S is a pretty heavy mixer at 66 pounds so be carefull if you have a weak back.  There are very little English instructions but set up and use is pretty self explanatory. 

My first batch of dough was made with KAAP.  This is a new to me flour for making NP pizza.  I have been using Ardent Mills Hotel and Restuarant AP flour prior after I ran out of Caputo 00.  I used a 62% hydration dough for the initial test which miade a very nice dough.  I put all the flour into the mixer first and dissolved the CY and salt in the water and added it in small increments.  I added a small amount of softened lard at the end of the mix and the dough was mixed for 13min.   I stopped the mixer periodically to check the texture of the dough and stopped the mixer when I felt the dough was done.  The finishing dough temp (DT) was 78F.  For this first batch I did not mix the dough until smooth, maybe 75-80% of the way.   I balled the dough up and let it rest about an hour at RT (75F) before doing a gentle S&F and rounding up the dough.  After this, the dough looked really smooth and looked like it could pass a windowpane test, although I didn't do one. 
The dough was bulked fermented at RT (76F) for 10hrs and then made into balls. 

The Bulked dough exhibited some peculiar characteristics unlike my normal dough.  When I turned the dough out onto the counter for dividing and scalling I noticed that it held it's shape and appeared strong and aerated.  Upon dividing I also thought it felt different texturally.  I didn't take a picture of the cross section but the dough was taller than normal and looked more aerated.  The dough balled up easily and appeared smoother than my normal dough.  I'll post some pictures to follow. 

I put the doughballs into the cooler at around 70F to be proofed for 10-12hrs since I wasn't sure what time I was going to get off of work.  I ended up getting out early and pulled the dough out after 7hrs.  The dough sat at RT (75F) for a few hours and another hour outside at 85F wihile the oven was heating up.

The balls were well aerated but didn't dome as high as I would have expected.  This could have been due to the new flour or hydration.  The doughballs opened very evenly with little if any thin spots, was soft, aerated, supple, had some strength but also somewhat pliable.   When turning them over into the bench flour, they held their shape and air which was a pleasant surprise considering how well proofed they were.  With my normal Kitchen Aid (KA) dough, I would have expected them to deflate 10% or so.  Upon building the pies and sliding them over onto my GI metal peel, I noticed that the stretched dough was 30% more pliable compared to my normal dough.  Normally I can load my pies and get perfectly round pies b/c I tend to make a strong dough.   On these pies I got a little bit of an oval shape bc the dough seemed more pliable.  Again this could be more because of the new flour and particular hydration than bc of the mixer or a bit of both. 

I baked these pies in my Carbon oven using 2 stock stones stacked at a floor temp of 870-880F.  I did not stretch these out as thin as I normally would b/c of how soft the dough was and did not want to risk tearing holes in these pies if stretched too thin.  My normal Kitchen Aid (KA) dough feels stronger and I am able to do a very thin stretch.  I did not want to risk it on this first batch.  The doughballs are 165 grams and tke baked pies are just shy of 10".  With my KA dough I will bake 10.5" pies using the same amount of dough.   Immediately I noted that the ovenspring to be better and they were baking 10 seconds quicker than my normal pies in this same oven.  These are signs that the interrnal gluten matrix is stronger.  A more aerated and proofed dough will bake more efficiently and quicker.

The bigger  oven spring an more even rim coloration and browning than my regular pies is an indication of the consistency of the dough and internal gluten strength.  Upon eating, I noted that the rim had slightly less crisp than my normal pies which I had expected given the way the dough felt as I transferred it onto the peel and into the oven.  This is likely attributed to the KAAP flour and the hydration I was using for this batch rather than the mixer itself.   Although to be sure my next test batch tomorrow I will tweak the dough recipe slightly and test doughs made in the Famag VS the KA and baked side by side.

How the pies ate.  These were some of the lighter pies I have made and eaten.  Aside from the rim being slightly less crispy than I like, they were near perfect in every other sense.  I was quite taken back to be honest.  They were very tender and light.  The rim had the smallest amount of chew but was not doughy or bready at all.  Given the visually thick rims compared to my normal KA dough, I would have expected them to be somewhat bready or dense.  That's why I have been stretching my KA dough so thin.  To keep the texture light and add a bit more crisp to the rim.   But these pies texturally were different than my regular KA pies. 
My GF who ate these pies with me also noted the differences.  She has been faithfully eating my tester pizzas 3-5 times a week for the last year or more without complaint.  God bless this woman.  We inhaled 2 pies easily without feeling full or heavy.  I also tend to top my pies lightly, but still these were a pleasure to eat.  Very good for a first bake.   I was amazed at the difference.  Maybe it was beginner's luck or maybe it was the mixer.   Future bakes will tell. 
Title: Re: First impressions and review of the Famag IM-5S Spiral mixer
Post by: billg on July 02, 2021, 01:43:08 PM
The dough looks great!   I completely agree that the dough from the spiral mixer seems to add or whip more air into the dough than by hand.  I also noticed that the dough seems to be more harmonious.  It's kind of hard to explain the difference unless you do it side by side.  It just seems more complete.  I have been an advocate for hand mixing and still enjoy the process.  It taught me more about dough than I could have learned from any book or video.  The experience or feel gave me great insight on how the dough developed and allowed me to experiment with different hydrations, yeast, etc.. that were invaluable when just staring out.  I am anxiously waiting for the arrival of a Sunmix 10 and will definitely compare my results using the same recipe to see what the difference is.  It's been about 2 years since I had a spiral mixer at home.  If I don't think it makes any difference, then I'll sell it and never look back. 
Title: Re: First impressions and review of the Famag IM-5S Spiral mixer
Post by: Jackie Tran on July 02, 2021, 01:48:00 PM
I'll follow this closely. I really want a spiral mixer but just can't pull the trigger. Would my pizza dough improve with a spiral mixer?

When deciding whether or not to buy one I always think of Franco Pepe, considered to be on of the best pizza makers, and put it out of my mind.

I know you'll do impartial testing and I'm looking forward to your results!

https://youtu.be/NrDkUEiK3fw?t=127


I have heard of guys like Franco Pepe, who insist on making dough by hand commercially because comercial mixers tend to build too much gluten for their liking.  I have always wondered why they don't just mix less?  There are a number of ways to control gluten developement.  Making multiple batches of dough comercially by hand can be exhausting for you and your staff.  I dont know if these guys know something the rest of the community doesn't or their passion has driven them mad. 

I can make good pizza by hand but it takes more time and effort.  At this point in time and after just one batch of dough in this spiral mixer, I can honestly say that the batch of dough I made in the Famag 2 days ago was very unique.  It was unlike any other batch of dough I have made by hand or in anyone of the 3 mixers I have owned over the last 10 years of experimenting.  It is not something I can duplicate by hand.  My hat is off to anyone who claims they can make as good of a dough by hand or better.  I would love to put that claim to a real world test.  I'm telling you that I can not.  Maybe with more practice or knowledge I can.  Anythng is possible right? 

Chau
Title: Re: First impressions and review of the Famag IM-5S Spiral mixer
Post by: Jackie Tran on July 02, 2021, 01:59:48 PM
The dough looks great!   I completely agree that the dough from the spiral mixer seems to add or whip more air into the dough than by hand.  I also noticed that the dough seems to be more harmonious.  It's kind of hard to explain the difference unless you do it side by side.  It just seems more complete.  I have been an advocate for hand mixing and still enjoy the process.  It taught me more about dough than I could have learned from any book or video.  The experience or feel gave me great insight on how the dough developed and allowed me to experiment with different hydrations, yeast, etc.. that were invaluable when just staring out.  I am anxiously waiting for the arrival of a Sunmix 10 and will definitely compare my results using the same recipe to see what the difference is.  It's been about 2 years since I had a spiral mixer at home.  If I don't think it makes any difference, then I'll sell it and never look back.

Well explained and I agree 100%.  I had asked Larry (thezaman) about this a month or 2 ago and he told me the same thing as well.  The spiral mixer does incorporate more air into the dough.   But not only that, it appears to make a different dough than what I can make in the KA or by hand.  It seems to build a better internal gluten matrix.  Well it has to inorder to trap and hold more air, but at the same time it doesn't make a chewier product....if you don't over mix.  My dough was able to trap and hold more air but yet at the same time be more pliable than what I normally get.   Again this could be the flour (& hydration) as it is a new flour, but tomorrow's test will hopefully shed more light on the topic.  I don't want to run too wild with any claims just yet.   I absolutely agree with your experience with hand mixing and even using a KA mixer.   I would never take back or trade that experience.  I think the more experience a dough maker can get by hand mixing or with multiple mixers and ovens the better.  With each experience, we gain invaluable knowledge that is sometimes difficult to pass along in writing. 

Chau
Title: Re: First impressions and review of the Famag IM-5S Spiral mixer
Post by: bifi85 on July 02, 2021, 02:37:21 PM
Visually I can't tell if they sent me the IM-5S or the IM-5S HH.  There is no difference visually between the two and even the HH model has the same model printed on the sticker on the mixer as the non HH model.  I'll have to call PHG and ask them.

The side-buttons on the 3x IM-5 models (single speed |10x speed |10x speed + reverse direction) are different. From your pictures it seems like that you have the IM-5S HH (it should als has few more RPM).
Title: Re: First impressions and review of the Famag IM-5S Spiral mixer
Post by: Jackie Tran on July 02, 2021, 02:58:15 PM
The side-buttons on the 3x IM-5 models (single speed |10x speed |10x speed + reverse direction) are different. From your pictures it seems like that you have the IM-5S HH (it should als has few more RPM).

Here is the side panel with buttons, the model code and back panel.  The speed control knob says 0-10.

I'm.curious to know if the side panel buttons are different on the current models between the IM-_S vs the HH models or if that's an older model you are looking at. 
Title: Re: First impressions and review of the Famag IM-5S Spiral mixer
Post by: Elchimi on July 02, 2021, 03:10:47 PM
I thought spiral mixers would be predestined not to heat the dough so much during preparation (even the smaller home machines).

Maybe this 2 links can help new Famag owners:
  • How to Use a Famag Dough Mixer (https://www.theperfectloaf.com/guides/how-to-use-a-famag-dough-mixer/)
  • How to Fix the Famag Bowl Lock (https://wheatbeat.com/how-to-fix-the-famag-bowl-lock/)
They heat up the dough quite a bit if you let it knead for longer, especially when you use lower hydration and higher speed.
But compared to a KA for example (which heated up my dough quite a bit) the dough in the spiral mixer is usually done just way faster so you can pull it out earlier without getting too hot.
Title: Re: First impressions and review of the Famag IM-5S Spiral mixer
Post by: bifi85 on July 02, 2021, 03:25:26 PM
@Jackie Tran
Your model has the button for reverse direction. Only the HH models have that buttons an can go in reverse direction.
Title: Re: First impressions and review of the Famag IM-5S Spiral mixer
Post by: billg on July 02, 2021, 04:21:59 PM
Well explained and I agree 100%.  I had asked Larry (thezaman) about this a month or 2 ago and he told me the same thing as well.  The spiral mixer does incorporate more air into the dough.   But not only that, it appears to make a different dough than what I can make in the KA or by hand.  It seems to build a better internal gluten matrix.  Well it has to inorder to trap and hold more air, but at the same time it doesn't make a chewier product....if you don't over mix.  My dough was able to trap and hold more air but yet at the same time be more pliable than what I normally get.   Again this could be the flour (& hydration) as it is a new flour, but tomorrow's test will hopefully shed more light on the topic.  I don't want to run too wild with any claims just yet.   I absolutely agree with your experience with hand mixing and even using a KA mixer.   I would never take back or trade that experience.  I think the more experience a dough maker can get by hand mixing or with multiple mixers and ovens the better.  With each experience, we gain invaluable knowledge that is sometimes difficult to pass along in writing. 

Chau

I think you will find the same experience with whatever flour you choose.  From my experience which was a limited time with the Famag, hydration and mixing times made the biggest difference.  Once I knew what the flour could handle hydration wise, everything else was very consistent. I have a feeling once you find your Holy Grail combo, you will be more consistent with the spiral and stick with that recipe for a while ;D,
Title: Re: First impressions and review of the Famag IM-5S Spiral mixer
Post by: Jackie Tran on July 02, 2021, 06:29:33 PM

Many people use flour and yeast first, then add about 60-70% of the water, adding more in stages, then salt.  I have done both methods and I think I like flour and yeast first.  The jury is still out on that one.

I mixed my 2nd small batch of dough (~650gm) in the Famag today, adding the water first, then dissolving salt and yeast into the water, adding all the flour next, and lastly the lard once the water was taken up.  There were noticeable bits of dry dough bits a long the perimeter of the bowl which I quickly ushered towards the center and mixing arm with a spatula.  I stopped the mixer and did that at least 2 times.  I did not have to do that with the previous batch when I added all the flour first.   There were also more bits of wet dough stuck to the bowl's inside corner edge compared to my first batch 2 days ago.  But by the end of the mixing, the dough had cleared and clean the bowl.   Who's to say that it wouldn't have done that if I hadn't use the spatula?+  My suspicion is that it would have and pushing the dry bits towards the dough is unnecesarry, but my OCD won't allow that.  I think from here on out, I will be adding all the flour first and then the water in increments. 
Title: Re: First impressions and review of the Famag IM-5S Spiral mixer
Post by: Jackie Tran on July 02, 2021, 06:58:30 PM
I prepared 2 (24hr) doughs today to be fermented at RT (75F) and baked tomorrow around noon.  I lowered the hydration of my previous dough by 2 points (1 pt water and 1 pt lard) and made one dough in the Kitchen Aide (KA) and one dough in the Famag.  I made the KA dough first since I believe the Famag dough will be more aerated and ferment a little faster.   I started with slightly colder water in the Famag 50F vs KA 62F as I believe the Famag to produce more heat and heat up the dough quicker.   I also kept the mixing speed set at #4 on the Famag and used the lowest speed setting 1 on the KA.   In hindsight, I think maybe speed 5 on the Famag would more closely conincide with KA spd 1, but Im not sure about that. 

Both doughs had the same formula and the KA dough was done mixing at 7minutes.  I tried to approximate the same consistency in the Famag dough which required 9 min of mixing on speed 4, thus leading me to believe that maybe Speed 5 would have been a closer match.  The Famag bowl diameter is also larger and flat on the bottom as oppose to the KA bowl shape which helps funnel ingredients into the center of the bowl as it is mixing.  Perhaps with the larger diameter bowl and such a small batch of dough, it took extra time to incorporate the ingredients.  Or perhaps it is the slightly gentler mixing action of the Famag that requires more time.  It could be any combination of these factors or something else that I am missing, I don't know. 

In both mixers, water was added to the bowl first, then salt dissolved, and then CY solution added.   All of the flour was dumped on top and the mixer started. A small amount of lard was added at the 45s mark in the KA, and at 1 min in the Famag.  Both doughs had a finishing Dough temp of 77F.  The doughs were balled (picture below), weighed, and RT rested for about 2 hours before a gentle palm knead and reball to assess the dough strength.   

With the initial balling prior to the 2hr rest, the Famag dough appeared to be a bit smoother.  This could be due to the 2 minutes of additonal mixing required in the Famag.  After the 2 hour rest and reball, the Famag dough again appeared smoother and slightly stronger.   It also felt different as I reballed the dough.  The stretched dough had less rough edges, looked smoother quicker and felt like it had more spring to it.  Pushing the reballed doughs with my fingers also felt like it had more spring to it.  Only after I had notice this difference did I go back to check the KA dough and it feels slightly denser.   This could just be my imagination though.  I just thought the Famag dough felt different so I check the KA dough to see if I could feel the difference.   

The top surface of the Famag dough after the 2 hr rest and reball had more tiny little bubbles.  I don't think this is fermentation bubbles but I could be wrong.  I think using 0.03% CY, it is too soon to have fermentation bubbles.  This could be the outward signs of air incorporated during the mixing process.   More later. 

First 3 pics are of the KA dough after mixing, after balling and weighing, and after a few gentle palm kneads and reball 2 hours later.  Pics 3-6 are of the Famag dough. 
Title: Re: First impressions and review of the Famag IM-5S Spiral mixer
Post by: billg on July 02, 2021, 07:53:58 PM

 Nice review Chau!!!!  Those little bubbles are tiny pockets of air from mixing or just a balling result.  I experienced the same thing.  I too thought that fermentation could have begun, but at the 68f room temp fermentation schedule I typically run, I thought that was not likely.  The dough that I made in the spiral always came out smoother.  There were no rough edges or a sort of "clumpiness" I got from mixing by hand or using my Ankarsrum.  It was more like a finished product vs a really good rough draft if that makes sense.  I really wish I gave the Famag more time because I was more hyper focused on doing everything "by the book" vs just learning or making adjustments to the equipment I had on hand.  I have a strong feeling this thread is gonna get quite large.  Looking forward to everyone's experience. 
Title: Re: First impressions and review of the Famag IM-5S Spiral mixer
Post by: jsobolew on July 02, 2021, 11:29:48 PM
@Jackie Tran
Your model has the button for reverse direction. Only the HH models have that buttons an can go in reverse direction.

Mind has the reverse feature too and it's not the HH version.
Title: Re: First impressions and review of the Famag IM-5S Spiral mixer
Post by: bifi85 on July 03, 2021, 03:18:14 AM
Mind has the reverse feature too and it's not the HH version.

As I said before, the HH version of the Famag Grilletta should have a few more RPM. - Sellers can sometimes modify older products to look like it is the latest model. However, this is mostly only due to the exterior design change.
Would be great if you can show us some pictures from your Famag Grilletta. @jsobolew
Here in Europe it is pretty simple if you look at the picture (assuming the buttons work as indicated).
Title: Re: First impressions and review of the Famag IM-5S Spiral mixer
Post by: Jackie Tran on July 03, 2021, 06:24:39 AM
Dough batch #2 Progress Report.  By 1130pm last night, both doughs had bulked 11hrs (Famag) and 11h20m (KA).  The Famag dough, despite being made 20m later had risen 20-30% higher.  The bulking containers I'm using do not show this well in pictures.  Next time I will use clear containers that would show this better.   
I balled up both doughs starting with the Famag dough first.   It was a bit more bulk fermented than I normally would have liked leading to bigger air bubbles in the dough that surfaced when making the balls making the top skin appear more lumpy in the pictures below.   The KA dough was less aerated, had less surface bubbles and appears smoother on the surface. 


Pic 1 Famag dough after balling
Pic 2 KA dough after balling.
Pic 3 both balls in the tray.  Famag doughballs are on the Left.
Pic 4 doughballs after 5 hrs of proofing at 65F.
Title: Re: First impressions and review of the Famag IM-5S Spiral mixer
Post by: 02ebz06 on July 03, 2021, 04:20:38 PM
The all turned out fantastic!
I'll leave it to Chau to post the pictures with the details.
Title: Re: First impressions and review of the Famag IM-5S Spiral mixer
Post by: Jackie Tran on July 03, 2021, 06:21:54 PM
Thanks for helping me taste test these pies Bruce.  I baked 6 pies total, 2 from the KA doughs and 4 from the Famag camp.  Though both doughs made good pizza, the Famag dough was the clear winner.   The Famag dough proofed up higher and was easier to handle during opening and launching.  The dough was stronger but yet somehow more tender.   It's a complete mystery to me how this is possible.   How does the spiral mixer produce a stronger dough with a stronger gluten matrix and yet make more tender pies at the same time?    I was busy chatting and baking pies so I only manage to snap a few decent pics.   The marinara is a KA pie and the others from the Famag dough.

Last 2 pictures are the doughballs after fully proofing.
Title: Re: First impressions and review of the Famag IM-5S Spiral mixer
Post by: bifi85 on July 04, 2021, 06:25:25 AM
Keep in mind, that many different variable factors and "cognitive bias" are unavoidable disruptive factors in your observations.

A big plastic squeeze bottle for the dough water could be very helpful. You can cool the water in the freezer and you have a better aim (water jet) for later appearing problem spots (flour) in the bowl.

It would be interesting to find out whether the few additional RPMs of the HH-version (only 60 RPM more) is helpful for high hydration dough (70-100%) or whether it is just a marketing gag like the additional reverse run.
Title: Re: First impressions and review of the Famag IM-5S Spiral mixer
Post by: Jackie Tran on July 04, 2021, 11:07:36 AM
Keep in mind, that many different variable factors and "cognitive bias" are unavoidable disruptive factors in your observations.

A big plastic squeeze bottle for the dough water could be very helpful. You can cool the water in the freezer and you have a better aim (water jet) for later appearing problem spots (flour) in the bowl.

It would be interesting to find out whether the few additional RPMs of the HH-version (only 60 RPM more) is helpful for high hydration dough (70-100%) or whether it is just a marketing gag like the additional reverse run.

Unintentional cognitive bias and unaccounted for variable factors are unavoidable.   I can only try to keep tests as fair as possible. 

Thank you for the water bottle trick, I will keep that in mind for making high hydration doughs.

My opinion on the HH version is that it will cut a small amount of mixing time compared to the standard on high hydration doughs.  It was only $60 more for the added rpms, so I decided on it in the off chance that it would make a big difference.   As far as the reverse mix function, from the included printed material, "some users incorporate ingredients with the spiral hook turning in an upward motion to cut down on oxygen incorporated into the ingredients, and then switch" the direction to knead the dough.  It's an option.  I was watching an episode of "Cooked" on Netflix last night and they were using a Giant commercial mixer in which I noted the spiral mixing arm going in reverse to incorporate the ingredients.   

Had I not been aware of this function, I surely would have missed it!

 
Title: Re: First impressions and review of the Famag IM-5S Spiral mixer
Post by: wb54885 on July 04, 2021, 12:23:05 PM
Iíve worked with a few models and sizes of spiral mixers in pizzerias, and I always used the reverse feature to incorporate ingredients. I was taught to do so. Just a few rotations at a time between forward rotations to scoop up loose flour, but definitely considered part of the workflow and not just an aberrant feature of the mixer. I also frequently used my hands to lift and move pieces of dough to get them to mix better. Once the full dough mass ďcatches,Ē itís off to the races!

Very excited to see you doing these experiments. One thing I find interesting so far is your mix times. This professional bread baker who taught me on a spiral mixer, she said 10 minutes in a Hobart on low speed would be equivalent to about 4 minutes in a spiral on low. Iíd assume at your low-ish hydrations you wouldnít be needing to mix for 12-13 minutes, but it sounds like youíre getting excellent results regardless.

Iíll be following with excitement! I really appreciate how honest and nuanced your thinking on dough is.

And of course, these pies are looking sublime.

Cheers!
Title: Re: First impressions and review of the Famag IM-5S Spiral mixer
Post by: Jackie Tran on July 04, 2021, 08:51:11 PM
WB54885, Billg, bifi85, Jsolbolew, Ellchimi and any other members who have contributed your experience and knowledge....thank you so much.  Please keep commenting and sharing as it will only make this thread better.  And let's see those pies!!  Please let me know how long you've had your mixer and if it's been worth it, and what you have learned along the way.

WB, I suspect my lengthened mixed times are because I am mixing a small batch of dough in a large bowl and it is taking extra time to bring the ingredients together.  It also maybe partly due to my use of lard in the dough.   I will make another batch of dough tonight and I think I will incorporate the ingredients by hand in a separate mixing bowl first and then knead it using the Famag just to see if that will cut down on the mixing times. 

Chau
Title: Re: First impressions and review of the Famag IM-5S Spiral mixer
Post by: Elchimi on July 04, 2021, 09:04:21 PM
My first ever pie in my new ZioCiro mini. It was quite a challenge. Didnít have the right peel and turning peel.
Iíve mixed 24h CF 100% Biga 0.3% CY using 00 Contadino flour and 10% AT in my Sunmix 6 at low speed , added small amounts of cold water every 2-3min until 68% hydration. Total mixing time around 10min. I like to go slow with the spiral so it wonít heat up that fast
Then 1h RT and balled for 36h CF,
Then Jersey fresh tomatoes, Belgiogioso fresh pizza mozzarella, few pepperoni.
Probably 2min bake (need to play with the small flame a bit more)
Title: Re: First impressions and review of the Famag IM-5S Spiral mixer
Post by: Elchimi on July 05, 2021, 09:07:57 AM
Making your Lievito madre in the spiral mixer is a game changer.
Before: kneading a 1:2:2 ratio (hydration,old  LM, flour) is a pain for your wrists.
Now: 0.9:2:2 just put it all in spiral mixer let it run at 10 min at low speed, and itís ready!
Title: Re: First impressions and review of the Famag IM-5S Spiral mixer
Post by: Jackie Tran on July 05, 2021, 09:27:05 AM
That's pretty cool Elchimi.   I haven't used Lievito Madre before.   What is the benefit in using it?  How much of it do you typically use in your dough?  Do you just reserve a portion of the LM in the fridge to make more LM?
Title: Re: First impressions and review of the Famag IM-5S Spiral mixer
Post by: Elchimi on July 05, 2021, 09:41:56 AM
That's pretty cool Elchimi.   I haven't used Lievito Madre before.   What is the benefit in using it?  How much of it do you typically use in your dough?  Do you just reserve a portion of the LM in the fridge to make more LM?
The balance is different: LM is more yeast and less bacteria as compared to liquid sourdough. So it has less of a sour taste, almost sweet. You should try to feed it 2 x daily with the 1:2:2 ratio. If you forget to feed it it turns more sour but just go back on schedule.
Itís essentially a firm dough with concentrated wild yeast and some other bacteria.
I like it better than my old sourdough starter, it has more power, buts thatís just my impression.
You can keep it in the fridge after it has doubled and use it for some time with similar power I believe (havenít done that yet).
You usually use it about 3-4 hrs after feeding, but Iíve used it 12h later due to timing issue with good results.
Never heard of it until I joined a German baking group, but it was worth it getting into it.
The ratio for the dough , you need to keep it a bit lower as compared to liquid SD, maybe you need 25-40% less overall.
For bread I use max 15-20% and it takes about a 25-50% less time to double or so as compared to liquid SD.
Iíd need to experiment with 10% LM might be more ideal.
So more power, can use less in the mix.
Title: Re: First impressions and review of the Famag IM-5S Spiral mixer
Post by: Elchimi on July 05, 2021, 10:07:06 AM
That's pretty cool Elchimi.   I haven't used Lievito Madre before.   What is the benefit in using it?  How much of it do you typically use in your dough?  Do you just reserve a portion of the LM in the fridge to make more LM?
https://www.sbs.com.au/food/article/2020/01/16/pasta-madre-and-its-not-pasta-all

Lots of the recipes you can find are not correct. You just use flour and water and get it going.
Hereís a bit of info about it
Title: Re: First impressions and review of the Famag IM-5S Spiral mixer
Post by: Jackie Tran on July 05, 2021, 11:20:56 AM
Thank you for the explanation and link ElChimi.   I have seen posts about LM and PM before on Instagram but did not know anything about it.  I love the fact that it has a better lift and sweeter taste than SD.   Admittedly I am not a huge fan of SD as most SDs are meant to be sour and that specific quality sought after.  But LM, I can definitely get into.   I'll have to do some reading and look into making my own LM.  Can you make it with commercial yeast or is it made with a wild yeast?
Title: Re: First impressions and review of the Famag IM-5S Spiral mixer
Post by: billg on July 05, 2021, 12:56:38 PM
https://www.sbs.com.au/food/article/2020/01/16/pasta-madre-and-its-not-pasta-all

Lots of the recipes you can find are not correct. You just use flour and water and get it going.
Hereís a bit of info about it

Every recipe I've seen seems to use honey and filtered water (no chlorine) to start the Lievito madre and takes about 10-12 days. Did you make yours a different way or follow a different procedure?
Title: Re: First impressions and review of the Famag IM-5S Spiral mixer
Post by: Heikjo on July 05, 2021, 01:58:28 PM
Very interesting indeed. I didn't know LM was different from sourdough. A natural yeast with less acidity sounds tempting to try.

I found these links from another topi (https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=31977.msg317329#msg317329)c about reduing the sour in sourdough in this forum:

https://blog.giallozafferano.it/fablesucre/pasta-madre/
https://blog.giallozafferano.it/fablesucre/lievito-madre/

Quote
In Italy, a 100%-starter is almost unknown. Usually they are at about 50%. This would make them more sour in theory, but they are refreshed with much more food (1:1:0.5 - starter:flour:water) and kept warmer before being fed again and then stored in the fridge. Also they are often kept under pressure like a sausage or under water.

I think this is something I haven't picked up on before, for instance SAUZER use a low hydration LM, but I see now that this is probably not wild yeast the way my 100% starter is, but rather lievito madre and how they make it in Italy.

Thanks Elchimi. I got some work to do now. :)
Title: Re: First impressions and review of the Famag IM-5S Spiral mixer
Post by: Elchimi on July 05, 2021, 02:16:10 PM
Every recipe I've seen seems to use honey and filtered water (no chlorine) to start the Lievito madre and takes about 10-12 days. Did you make yours a different way or follow a different procedure?
https://www.dropbox.com/s/27pa92dwxst1ump/Neuz%C3%BCchtung_Schritt_f%C3%BCr%20_Schritt_1.1..pdf?dl=0&fbclid=IwAR0MJVqwuSBgqG68K_1_6KSeFOJwNJZ-ToFGG0AxxA6B4DL8cz-CPMXVsLc

Here are some detailed instructions, you got to put it through google translate.
Essentially you start the LM like a SD with a 1:1 water to flour ratio (filtered or bottled water to get rid of the chlorine) but then after the first 24-48h you switch to a firm dough using 1:2:2 (hydration:starter:flour).
You donít need Honey, some people believe it can affect the balance, but IDKÖ
Mine was ready to go after 7-10d I believe and super active.
You can also cheat and use a bit of sourdough and change it to a firm dough using the 1:2:2.
Iíve done that as well parallel to my new LM and what can I say I didnít see any significant difference. I believe once you keep it firm the milieu changes and affects year growth and bacterial growth in a way like it would to with a Newly started LM,
Some serious bread makers told me itís not the same, but I donít think so (call it a fake LM)Ö
Title: Re: First impressions and review of the Famag IM-5S Spiral mixer
Post by: Heikjo on July 05, 2021, 02:30:12 PM
I'll probably find this elsewhere too, but what kind of flour do you favor for LM, if it matters?

This is somewhat derailing the spiral mixer topic, so maybe we need a new one to continue the discussion in the SD category.
Title: Re: First impressions and review of the Famag IM-5S Spiral mixer
Post by: Elchimi on July 05, 2021, 02:35:01 PM
Just regular or strong white wheat flour, doesnít matter if 00 or malted etc, no whole wheat or rye.
Essentially whatever I have available I feed it with.
Title: Re: First impressions and review of the Famag IM-5S Spiral mixer
Post by: billg on July 05, 2021, 02:40:03 PM
https://www.dropbox.com/s/27pa92dwxst1ump/Neuz%C3%BCchtung_Schritt_f%C3%BCr%20_Schritt_1.1..pdf?dl=0&fbclid=IwAR0MJVqwuSBgqG68K_1_6KSeFOJwNJZ-ToFGG0AxxA6B4DL8cz-CPMXVsLc

Here are some detailed instructions, you got to put it through google translate.
Essentially you start the LM like a SD with a 1:1 water to flour ratio (filtered or bottled water to get rid of the chlorine) but then after the first 24-48h you switch to a firm dough using 1:2:2 (hydration:starter:flour).
You donít need Honey, some people believe it can affect the balance, but IDKÖ
Mine was ready to go after 7-10d I believe and super active.
You can also cheat and use a bit of sourdough and change it to a firm dough using the 1:2:2.
Iíve done that as well parallel to my new LM and what can I say I didnít see any significant difference. I believe once you keep it firm the milieu changes and affects year growth and bacterial growth in a way like it would to with a Newly started LM,
Some serious bread makers told me itís not the same, but I donít think so (call it a fake LM)Ö

What does the 1:2:2.  break down to in terms of weight in grams?  I guess I'm confused on the formula.  Does it mean say 100 grams of LM then 200 grams water and 200 grams flour?

thanks,
Bill
Title: Re: First impressions and review of the Famag IM-5S Spiral mixer
Post by: Elchimi on July 05, 2021, 02:44:09 PM
100ml water, 200g LM and 200g flour, but I use    a bit less water (90-95ml) to make it firmer to slow down fermentation.
Title: Re: First impressions and review of the Famag IM-5S Spiral mixer
Post by: billg on July 05, 2021, 02:55:53 PM
100ml water, 200g LM and 200g flour, but I use    a bit less water (90-95ml) to make it firmer to slow down fermentation.

Got it.  Thank you!!!!
Title: Re: First impressions and review of the Famag IM-5S Spiral mixer
Post by: Jackie Tran on July 05, 2021, 04:04:18 PM
This is somewhat derailing the spiral mixer topic, so maybe we need a new one to continue the discussion in the SD category.

No worries, I love this stuff.   All pertinent info for use with spiral mixers.   I say keep it up. 
Title: Re: First impressions and review of the Famag IM-5S Spiral mixer
Post by: jsobolew on July 05, 2021, 05:49:57 PM
Iíve worked with a few models and sizes of spiral mixers in pizzerias, and I always used the reverse feature to incorporate ingredients. I was taught to do so. Just a few rotations at a time between forward rotations to scoop up loose flour, but definitely considered part of the workflow and not just an aberrant feature of the mixer. I also frequently used my hands to lift and move pieces of dough to get them to mix better. Once the full dough mass ďcatches,Ē itís off to the races!

This is interesting, it could possibly solve my mixing issues with unincorporated flour. So from what you're saying, I should just give it a few reverse rotations every once in a while during mixing?
Title: Re: First impressions and review of the Famag IM-5S Spiral mixer
Post by: amolapizza on July 06, 2021, 04:33:52 AM
FWIW, I also make my fresh egg pasta in the spiral mixer.  100g semolina rimacinata and one egg (60g) per person.  It's quite a stiff "dough" and needs closing on the bench, but it saves a lot of working doing it in the spiral mixer.
Title: Re: First impressions and review of the Famag IM-5S Spiral mixer
Post by: Heikjo on July 06, 2021, 04:49:07 AM
You should invite someone with pizza knowledge, serve them identical types, half made with the spiral and half with planetary, or some by hand. Then ask them what they think without revealing which was made with which.
Title: Re: First impressions and review of the Famag IM-5S Spiral mixer
Post by: wb54885 on July 06, 2021, 09:43:53 AM
This is interesting, it could possibly solve my mixing issues with unincorporated flour. So from what you're saying, I should just give it a few reverse rotations every once in a while during mixing?

Thatís how it was explained to me, that the reverse feature was useful for picking up loose flour and getting the dough mass fully incorporated. Spirals seem to work best at 100% bowl capacity, but if youíre making smaller batches my impression was that you will have to help a bit to bring the ingredients together, or at least that itíll save you time to do so.
Title: Re: First impressions and review of the Famag IM-5S Spiral mixer
Post by: billg on July 06, 2021, 12:55:20 PM


This information is quoted off a site called wheat beat.com and discusses the reverse function and his thoughts.  I'll post a link to the entire review.

1. REVERSE SPEED NOT USEFUL

First, I was so happy to see the machine comes with a forward AND REVERSE speed. Hooray! Not even some professional spiral mixing machines have a reverse. But alas, my exuberance was dashed when I realized the button doesnít just reverse the bowl as it should. It reverses the hook too :(. Thatís a problem, because when the hook reverses, it pulls dough up the hook until it hits the ceiling of the machine, gets inside the mechanism, gets all over the sensors, cables and every nook and cranny imaginable. No, of course that never happened to me <sarcasm>. Spiral mixers that have a true reverse actually have two motors. One for the hook and one for the bowl. When you put it in reverse, the hook keeps spinning clockwise, but the bowl reverses to go counter-clockwise. A reverse is helpful, because when you first add in all your flour and water, you sometimes need to reverse the bowl so all the dry pieces get picked up more easily. Without a reverse, you need to stop and scrape the sides every minute or so until everything gets picked up. The Famag has only one motor, so when the motor reverses, both the bowl and hook change directions together. Bottom line: no big deal, just disappointing."


https://wheatbeat.com/equipment-review-famage-spiral-mixer/
Title: Re: First impressions and review of the Famag IM-5S Spiral mixer
Post by: wb54885 on July 06, 2021, 02:35:53 PM
Thanks billg, thatís good to know and mighty interesting. I honestly donít remember if the mixers I used reversed both bowl and hook but Iíd be inclined to say they did. And there was definitely some scraping of dough down the hook from time to time, but if you just kind of ďpulseĒ the reverse instead of letting it run backwards without watching it, I believe the effort was minimal. If memory serves me, I think the point at which the dough started to climb was actually when I would just switch it back to forward motion.
Title: Re: First impressions and review of the Famag IM-5S Spiral mixer
Post by: scott r on July 06, 2021, 04:35:23 PM
Very cool thread chau!    Hey.... I hear what your saying about the famag dough vs the KA... My KA is just used for cookies and cakes now.  The famag makes incredible dough, but im surprised that you think your end product is better than what you can achieve with hand mixing.  It should be noted that the KA with the flat beater and high speeds can do a really killer high hydration dough.   Forum member Doughball can fill you in on the method if he's hanging around somewhere :) 

I just got back from a week vacation with some out of town friends in a rental house and I had to hand mix all of my doughs even though I usually use my famag.  I made 3 batches and they all seemed similar to my famag doughs once baked.  I was using a new oven, so I could have just gotten lucky there.

Im not sure if this makes a difference but pretty much only do stretch and folds when I hand mix now.... I stir everything together with a knife or wooden spoon just until incorporated, rest, and then I do stretch and folds trapping air roughly every 20 min to half hour, but sometimes its more random.  I keep doing folds and trapping air until it feels strong and smooth like the dough I get out of the famag.  That can be 6-10 sets depending on flour and hydration, or sometimes more if its a really wet dough.  If I have to run out or I get busy with other things I sometimes put the dough in the fridge and do the stretch and folds hours apart if there is a lot of yeast and I think the dough is going to blow up.

I also think that the reason I have such success by hand could be because im in the 70-75 percent hydration range most of the time lately.  I have been doing a lot of higher hydration squares and mamas too/l'industrie/scarrs/new haven style round pizzas in normal home ovens rather than high temp pies.   I could see where maybe if I were in the 60ish range the famag would have the upper hand.  Theres something about higher hydrations and stretch and folds that really works well for me.  Im not saying better than famag, but im pretty sure neck and neck. 

Hopefully some day soon I can do a comparison and post here like you did with your KA at 62 hydration.  Love direct comparison posts chau, thank you!

If anyone wants to prove me wrong with some controlled experiments I wont be offended at all!
Title: Re: First impressions and review of the Famag IM-5S Spiral mixer
Post by: amolapizza on July 07, 2021, 05:19:35 AM
I've made 80% dough both with my KA as well as with my Sunmix spiral mixer.

I can make a nice strong dough in about 10 minutes with the spiral using the double hydration method.

With the KA I do the following, I use the beater attachment.  I put all the ingredients in the bowl, let it run at the slowest speed for 20 seconds, and then at the maximum for another 4 minutes (until the dough has climbed onto the beater and pulled away from the sides and bottom.  Then stop for 5 minutes and run again at 10 seconds at max speed, again stop 5 minutes and again 10 seconds at max.

This does create a dough that hangs together, but it has a lot less strength and needs some stretch and fold sessions to get enough strength for a pizza in teglia / alla pala.  I think the spiral is the superior mixer but pretty cool that the KA (combined with folding) can do a reasonable 80% hydration dough.

When you fold this kind of dough it does need some serious slap and fold, normal folding, rounding with the dough scraper, etc.  If you see any signs of tearing and the dough getting wet on the outside again, then stop the folding and let it relax again.

The dough from the spiral mixer needs very little folding as it's nearly finished when you pull it out of the mixer.
Title: Re: First impressions and review of the Famag IM-5S Spiral mixer
Post by: Heikjo on July 07, 2021, 06:01:20 AM
Very cool thread chau!    Hey.... I hear what your saying about the famag dough vs the KA... My KA is just used for cookies and cakes now.  The famag makes incredible dough, but im surprised that you think your end product is better than what you can achieve with hand mixing. [Ö]

I just got back from a week vacation with some out of town friends in a rental house and I had to hand mix all of my doughs even though I usually use my famag.  I made 3 batches and they all seemed similar to my famag doughs once baked.  I was using a new oven, so I could have just gotten lucky there.

Im not sure if this makes a difference but pretty much only do stretch and folds when I hand mix now.... I stir everything together with a knife or wooden spoon just until incorporated, rest, and then I do stretch and folds trapping air roughly every 20 min to half hour, but sometimes its more random.  I keep doing folds and trapping air until it feels strong and smooth like the dough I get out of the famag.  That can be 6-10 sets depending on flour and hydration, or sometimes more if its a really wet dough.  If I have to run out or I get busy with other things I sometimes put the dough in the fridge and do the stretch and folds hours apart if there is a lot of yeast and I think the dough is going to blow up.
I am interested in the best possible dough using hands. S&F lends itself very useful for high hydration, but at 60-65% itís more like putty in consistency. With the rest periods the dough softens and is easily foldable, but will tighten up faster. You do 6-10 sets with 20-30 minute intervals, where you do as many stretches and folds as the dough can before it starts tearing?

I donít have a spiral mixer, so I canít easily compare my hand mixed doughs with anything. In the forum, some says 20-30 minute hand kneading, others use the method you mention, myself included.

Most of the ęworkĽ when using hands is letting the dough rest between sessions. By 1-2 hours the dough is very smooth, feels nice and can easily windowpane.

This is also useful in the context of this topic since hand mixing can be a useful method to compare to both spiral and planetary mixers. But the hand method should be the ideal way to do it for proper comparison.

I get that mixers will make different looking and feeling doughs, but the final baked pie is what matters.
Title: Re: First impressions and review of the Famag IM-5S Spiral mixer
Post by: Jackie Tran on July 07, 2021, 12:10:17 PM

I also think that the reason I have such success by hand could be because im in the 70-75 percent hydration range most of the time lately.  I have been doing a lot of higher hydration squares and mamas too/l'industrie/scarrs/new haven style round pizzas in normal home ovens rather than high temp pies.   I could see where maybe if I were in the 60ish range the famag would have the upper hand.  Theres something about higher hydrations and stretch and folds that really works well for me.  Im not saying better than famag, but im pretty sure neck and neck. 

Hopefully some day soon I can do a comparison and post here like you did with your KA at 62 hydration.  Love direct comparison posts chau, thank you!

If anyone wants to prove me wrong with some controlled experiments I wont be offended at all!

That's the big difference Scott.  I can see making a high hydration dough with S&F's and being able to incorporate air better.  Wetter doughs I might be able to make a similar dough, I haven't tested yet but will do so down the road just out of curiosity.   But for a 60% dough, I am unable to and can't see it happening.  By hand, the dough is just not stretchy enough to mix it the way the spiral mixer does to incorporate the amount of air it does.  It's even different than the KA mixer.  I'm certain its in the specific way that it creates short pulling and folding motions.  Even just after a short rest, and a quick fold of the dough I can feel the difference in the texture of the dough.  It is more bouncy, feels more lively, and is smoother.   

I made dough in the Famag yesterday and let it bulk rise 25%.  Balling the dough this morning there is so much air in the dough.  The balled doughs feel like balls of air.  They feel completely different in hand than my normal KA doughs.  I'm seeing a lot more air bubbles surfacing when creating a moderately tight skin (pic below).  I've been know to take Bulk rise to 50-100% in my KA dough before and it's only at this upper end would I see this size of airbubbles surface.  But it's not just in the amount of air that is incorporated.  There are inherent differences in the way the proof dough behaves that is starkly different than my hand made doughs and KA doughs.  I am able to make a much stronger dough initially and it just seems to relax more during the bulk ferment.  When I make a similarly strong dough in my KA mixer, it never seems to relax this much after bulk and ball, that strength is then translated into toughness post bake.  Not so with the spiral mixer.  Truly mind boggling.  I'll need to do more testing but so far this is what I am seeing. 

Chau
Title: Re: First impressions and review of the Famag IM-5S Spiral mixer
Post by: Jackie Tran on July 07, 2021, 12:26:44 PM
You should invite someone with pizza knowledge, serve them identical types, half made with the spiral and half with planetary, or some by hand. Then ask them what they think without revealing which was made with which.

Anyone interested in coming over for a taste test? 

Ya I've been doing this for years now with my GF.  She's very familiar with my pizzas and has a pretty keen sense of taste.   Also I trust my own senses and intuition over most ppl.  I've had had pizza "experts" from the forum miss things like wheat and SD taste and flavor in pizza crusts.  I'm pretty good about being impartial and I can usually make the connections with what changes I made in the dough with the changes I am seeing in the end result.   I wouldn't lie or lead people on.   So in the end you'll either have to take my word for it or take a chance if you are curious.  I am by no means telling anyone they should in invest in a spiral mixer or anything more than a KA.  As for me, with each test I do, it becomes more obvious what those differences are. 

Chau
Title: Re: First impressions and review of the Famag IM-5S Spiral mixer
Post by: texmex on July 07, 2021, 02:04:12 PM
Anyone interested in coming over for a taste test? 
...
Chau


Woo-hoo, party up the road!   
I'm no pizza expert, so I deleted that part of the text to suit my invitation ego.


Still in awe of your attention to detail, Chau.
Title: Re: First impressions and review of the Famag IM-5S Spiral mixer
Post by: Jon in Albany on July 07, 2021, 02:38:00 PM
Google Maps says if I leave now, I can be there in 30 hours.
Title: Re: First impressions and review of the Famag IM-5S Spiral mixer
Post by: amolapizza on July 07, 2021, 02:39:57 PM
That's just about the right time for a nice 30h RT dough!  :-D
Title: Re: First impressions and review of the Famag IM-5S Spiral mixer
Post by: Jackie Tran on July 07, 2021, 02:40:08 PM
Google Maps says if I leave now, I can be there in 30 hours.

I'll start a batch of dough for you.  Should be ready by the time you get here.   ;D
Title: Re: First impressions and review of the Famag IM-5S Spiral mixer
Post by: Jackie Tran on July 07, 2021, 07:23:49 PM
A few pies I made today from a batch of dough 2 days ago.  0.08% CY. 24hr Cold bulk, 10hr bulk @ 74f,  8hr ball @ 72f.

Texture is very light.  Slightly less crisp than I was getting with the Kitchen Aid but definitely more tender. I'm not complaining.  The first few bites the pies almost dissolve in your mouth.  Just a slight chew to the rim if any.  Had my 11 yo daughter help us eat and we ate 4 small pizzas.  Almost all the bones were eaten up.  I usually toss them if they aren't amazing.  I'm loving this mixer!!
Title: Re: First impressions and review of the Famag IM-5S Spiral mixer
Post by: Bill/SFNM on July 07, 2021, 09:11:52 PM
A few pies I made today from a batch of dough 2 days ago. 

Carbon Kitchen oven? Great looking pizza.
Title: Re: First impressions and review of the Famag IM-5S Spiral mixer
Post by: scott r on July 07, 2021, 09:18:56 PM
I'm loving this mixer!!

That is awesome news and these are beautiful pizzas.
Title: Re: First impressions and review of the Famag IM-5S Spiral mixer
Post by: Elchimi on July 07, 2021, 09:38:34 PM
Spiral mixers are the best. Ok those double arm dive stretch things are cool too
Title: Re: First impressions and review of the Famag IM-5S Spiral mixer
Post by: Jackitup on July 07, 2021, 10:05:18 PM
Just under 19 hours for me, but my back is so crappy right now I'd never make it!!! How bout you bringing some to me and you could do a temp assignment up here and work the anesthesia for my upcoming surgery?!?! Help a poor cripple brah!!!🤣
Title: Re: First impressions and review of the Famag IM-5S Spiral mixer
Post by: Jackie Tran on July 08, 2021, 01:44:17 PM
Carbon Kitchen oven? Great looking pizza.

Yes and Thank you Bill.  The last few bakes comparing the Carbon oven to the WFO, I have preferred the result and bake of the Carbon over the WFO.  Temps are much easier to control allowing me to dial in a specific bake time of around 70s, giving me much more consistent results.  The Carbon is more than good enough for me to hang up the WFO for now.  I will revisit WFO bakes after I have settled in on a process and formula.   

That is awesome news and these are beautiful pizzas.

Thank you and thank you for the information and advice leading upto the purchase.  Looking forward to your results with the new breaker bar as well.  Please keep me posted. 

Spiral mixers are the best. Ok those double arm dive stretch things are cool too

I have always been very intrigued by the diving arm mixer.  Maybe one day we will see a small sized one appropriate for home use.  I would buy one for sure.  I have searched off and on over the years without any luck. 

Just under 19 hours for me, but my back is so crappy right now I'd never make it!!! How bout you bringing some to me and you could do a temp assignment up here and work the anesthesia for my upcoming surgery?!?! Help a poor cripple brah!!!🤣

Jon, I am sorry to hear that your back has been bothering you.  Sending positive thoughts for your upcoming surgery.  If we were in the same city and hospital I would surely do your anesthetic and make you pizza during your recovery!  100%

Thanks guys for the encouragement and motivation.  The experiments will continue.
Title: Re: First impressions and review of the Famag IM-5S Spiral mixer
Post by: Jackie Tran on July 08, 2021, 02:31:42 PM
For tomorrow's bake I am repeating the same dough as above with a small tweak.  Because this mixer makes a softer and more tender dough than my KA, I'll be dropping the lard in my formula by 1% and in doing so also drop the effective hydration (EH) by 1% as well.   For this batch (Batch 1),  the flour, salt, and CY is added to the bowl first, and then ice water poured in incrementally.  I used the reverse mix for 2m at Sp 5, added in the lard, then regular fwd mix at spd 6 for 2min, then spd 9 for 2min, then spd 10 for 4min.  Total time in the bowl is 10m (2m to incorporate the ingredients, and 8m mix time).  My aim here is to make a relative strong dough.  Finishing Dough temp is 79F.  The dough was balled and rested 10m at RT.  I applied a few gentled palm kneads and rounded up the dough ball.  The dough is stronger than the previous dough from 7/6/21 (of which the pizzas are posted in the previous post)

I am also running a secondary test (Batch2) with the same dough formula but with a much different mixing regimen.   After talking with several members about the DM dough recently (Steve0124, Jsaras, ScottR), I decided to try and do a mixing regimen closer to theirs.  I also am interested to see if I can overmix a dough in this new mixer.   I also want to see how overmixing affects the dough and crumb with this new mixer compared to the Kitchen Aide.  The longest I have mixed in the KA is 15m and in doing so I get a strong dough.  It gives a crispy rim post bake but also a tough crumb as it cools.

For Batch 2, I decided to add in all of the water (minus the ice cubes that hadn't melted yet), followed by all the flour, salt, and CY.  I mixed the entire time on sp 4.  The goal was to see how long it would take to develop as strong of a dough as Batch 1 but only using a slower speed.  I added the remaining ice cubes in one at a time very slowly, with the last one going into the bowl at the 15m mark.  At the 18m mark the DT is 77F and I decided to stop the mix temporarily to cool the dough and bowl in the fridge for 5m.  I mixed another 4 min after that and had to cool the dough and bowl once again.  Another 3 min of mixing and the dough was done at 25m.   At this point, the small batch of dough was mostly climbing the mixing arm and mostly bypassing the breaker bar (picture below).  This is an indication that the dough is really strong.  Very much like in the KA, when the dough begins to wrap itself around the mixing arm and separate from the bowl. 

The finishing DT is 79F and the dough removed and quickly balled.  The appearance at this point is fairly smooth (pic 2).  The dough was rested in the cooler for 20m (DT 75F) and a few gentle palm kneads and the dough rounded.  I noted the dough to be stark white, strong and very smooth.  (pic 3).

Pic 4 shows the underside of the dough ball after the 20m rest and reball.  I wanted to show how strong the dough is and how it resists sealing at the seam.

Hoping that I don't get stuck at work tomorrow and can have another successful bake.  It will be interesting to compare the look and texture of the 2 doughs before and after baking. 
Title: Re: First impressions and review of the Famag IM-5S Spiral mixer
Post by: Whisky on July 08, 2021, 04:13:15 PM
You are making me want to spend some money.
1. new mixer
2. Carbon oven

Question - have you any experience with the PP Ardore for NP pies, and if so, how does it compare to the carbon?
Title: Re: First impressions and review of the Famag IM-5S Spiral mixer
Post by: amolapizza on July 08, 2021, 04:13:36 PM
IMO, the 2nd dough is seriously overmixed, but it looks nice and smooth and dry.

Looking forwards to the results and your opinion!
Title: Re: First impressions and review of the Famag IM-5S Spiral mixer
Post by: loch on July 08, 2021, 04:26:40 PM
You are making me want to spend some money.
1. new mixer
2. Carbon oven

Question - have you any experience with the PP Ardore for NP pies, and if so, how does it compare to the carbon?

I'm sitting here thinking the same thing! I've been to the PH Grain page every day.
https://pleasanthillgrain.com/shop-by-brand/famag

A very educational thread and I appreciate the tutorials from Jackie Tran and all the others with spiral mixing experience. Thanks for sharing all of your experiences and great pictures!

Dave
Title: Re: First impressions and review of the Famag IM-5S Spiral mixer
Post by: Heikjo on July 08, 2021, 04:32:37 PM
I like that you are deliberately overmixing, exploring the range of mixing that can be done and evaluating them. I think going into both extremes of something helps us better understand what is going on and how to dial in what we really are looking for, which might not be the same as someone else. If the first person found their holy grail and everyone else copied it, we wouldnít get anywhere. You seem to have an open mind and not worry about failing, and that experience is golden.

Experimenting just out of curiosity and not necessarily expecting to find something amazing.
Title: Re: First impressions and review of the Famag IM-5S Spiral mixer
Post by: lennyk on July 08, 2021, 07:58:12 PM
I have had an IM8s for a few months now and pretty much same positive experience as yours.

Personally I like an overfermented dough and I find with this mixer the dough is still manageable and not falling apart.
Easy to stretch but not flopping out of my hands.

I used a KA and later a DLX for years. It was a quantum leap.

Your idea of overmixing is a good one and I will probably do that soon to see what happens.
Title: Re: First impressions and review of the Famag IM-5S Spiral mixer
Post by: Jackie Tran on July 08, 2021, 08:02:11 PM
You are making me want to spend some money.
1. new mixer
2. Carbon oven

Question - have you any experience with the PP Ardore for NP pies, and if so, how does it compare to the carbon?

If you can swing it, I think they are worthwhile in the long run.   They both should last a long time. 

I have the Pizza Party Pizzone wfo and don't have any experience with the Adore.   I hear it is a good oven.  I don't think you could go wrong with it.  Gas ovens tend to be easier and quicker to learn and master compared to a wfo.  Hopefully the members who have one can chime in. 
Title: Re: First impressions and review of the Famag IM-5S Spiral mixer
Post by: Jackie Tran on July 08, 2021, 08:18:12 PM
I'm sitting here thinking the same thing! I've been to the PH Grain page every day.
https://pleasanthillgrain.com/shop-by-brand/famag

A very educational thread and I appreciate the tutorials from Jackie Tran and all the others with spiral mixing experience. Thanks for sharing all of your experiences and great pictures!

Dave

Dave, if you or anyone else is seriously considering this mixer, do not overlook the Sunmix mixer.   I did choose this because of the tilting head option.  I will say these mixers are easy to clean even with the non titling head and non removeable bowl option.   Maybe Jack and a few others can speak on their experience with their Sunmix. 
Title: Re: First impressions and review of the Famag IM-5S Spiral mixer
Post by: Elchimi on July 08, 2021, 11:24:43 PM
I bought the sunmix6 for about $1500, you get 10% off if you order. Itís a great machine and I highly recommend it. The bowl is wider as compared to the griletta.
The cleaning is not a problem, but you canít remove the bowl or move the head though. I donít think thatís a disadvantage because the bowl is easy to access and wiping out the bowl takes about 5 min at max.
Iíve never worked with a griletta, but I believe they are comparable and both very popular amongst hobby bakers.
Title: Re: First impressions and review of the Famag IM-5S Spiral mixer
Post by: Jackie Tran on July 09, 2021, 08:27:29 PM
Got some interesting results on today's test mix.  Batch 2 was the more interesting one, so we will discuss that one.  Batch 2 is the one I mixed for 25 minutes on a moderately low speed of 4.  This test was to test 2 things.  1) to see how long I could mix a dough and if that would have an effect on the dough and pies.  2) see if I could (loosely replicate) DM's mixing method.  DM uses a slow turning fork mixer and mixes somewhere in the ball park of 30-40m. 
My tester dough was mixed for a total of 25m.  I am using KA AP flour at a hydration of 58% + 2% lard.  The dough was fermented for a total of 20h at 70f, and proofed 10hr at 70f.  The dough was rested for 20m after mixing and I didew gentle palm kneads and a reball prior to bulking.   The balls proofed up high and round as expected and upon opening I could tell the doughballs were really strong.  They resisted opening evenly and I even tore 2 little holes trying to get the 2nd  skin thin, pic below.   I baked 2 marinara pies in my Carbon oven at 60s each.   The crumb was surprisingly not tough or chewy even after the pies rested and cooled.   
I also moistened the surface of one flattened doughball with a spray bottle and baked it with a small flame and was able to induce a bit of leoparding. 
Title: Re: First impressions and review of the Famag IM-5S Spiral mixer
Post by: Bill/SFNM on July 09, 2021, 09:16:37 PM
Chau,

I challenge you to a shootout: spiral vs. fork. Same ingredients, same ratios, protocols, same ovens, different mixers.
Title: Re: First impressions and review of the Famag IM-5S Spiral mixer
Post by: Jackie Tran on July 09, 2021, 09:20:16 PM
Chau,

I challenge you to a shootout: spiral vs. fork. Same ingredients, same ratios, protocols, same ovens, different mixers.

Sounds fun.  Bill do you want me to make both the doughs or will you be making the fork mixer dough?
Title: Re: First impressions and review of the Famag IM-5S Spiral mixer
Post by: Bill/SFNM on July 09, 2021, 09:24:04 PM
Bill do you want me to make both the doughs or will you be making the fork mixer dough?

What if I made dough using your protocol in my fork mixer? You could bring your spiral-mixed dough to my house and we could do side-by-side baking. Worst case we have fun and eat good pizza.
Title: Re: First impressions and review of the Famag IM-5S Spiral mixer
Post by: Bill/SFNM on July 09, 2021, 09:27:04 PM
Worstest case I end up selling my fork mixer and buying a Famag.  ;)
Title: Re: First impressions and review of the Famag IM-5S Spiral mixer
Post by: Jackie Tran on July 09, 2021, 09:27:35 PM
 ::)Here are the pies from batch 1.  They were pretty good but not nearly as good as the pies from 2 days ago or the pies from the very first Famag mix. A drop of the lard by 1% and thus decrease in hydration by 1% and a stronger mix produced an inferior texture, if all else was equal.  I also stretched the 2nd pie less which produced an even bigger difference.  Even though these look like my previous pies, a small change can produce drastically different results. 
Title: Re: First impressions and review of the Famag IM-5S Spiral mixer
Post by: Jackie Tran on July 09, 2021, 09:41:30 PM
What if I made dough using your protocol in my fork mixer? You could bring your spiral-mixed dough to my house and we could do side-by-side baking. Worst case we have fun and eat good pizza.

Bill we can definitely do that.    A better and truer test would be for me to make both doughs as I can stop the mixers at different points in the mixes and test for dough strength.   I would also factor in your expertise on your fork mixer such as best order for ingredients to go into the mixer and any specific mixing tricks or protocols.  We could also examine the dough at different stages of fermentation, bulk and balling,, all the way up until the bake.   If I made both doughs and balled both, it would give a more consistent picture.  I would have to stay the night.  We could make dough one evening and bake it the next afternoon or evening.  So a 20-24hr Rm temp dough would be a good test.    Also you could make some tester batches of your own dough in the Famag.  That might give an idea of it's usability and how it would work for you.  We can kick around the idea some more. 
Title: Re: First impressions and review of the Famag IM-5S Spiral mixer
Post by: Jackitup on July 09, 2021, 10:00:20 PM
Chau,

I challenge you to a shootout: spiral vs. fork. Same ingredients, same ratios, protocols, same ovens, different mixers.

Record it or it didn't happen! We want a video!!!😊
Title: Re: First impressions and review of the Famag IM-5S Spiral mixer
Post by: quietdesperation on July 09, 2021, 10:02:38 PM
just found this thread, making popcorn now...
Title: Re: First impressions and review of the Famag IM-5S Spiral mixer
Post by: Bill/SFNM on July 09, 2021, 10:16:54 PM
Bill we can definitely do that.    A better and truer test would be for me to make both doughs as I can stop the mixers at different points in the mixes and test for dough strength.   I would also factor in your expertise on your fork mixer such as best order for ingredients to go into the mixer, any specify mixing tricks or protocols.  We could also examine the dough at different stages of fermentation,bulk and balling,, all the way up until the bake.   If I made both doughs and balled both, it would give a clearer picture.  I would have to stay the night.  We could make dough one evening and bake it the next afternoon or evening.  So a 20-24hr Rm temp dough would be a good test.    Also you could make some tester batches of your own dough in the Famag.  That might give you an idea of usability and how it would work for you.  We can kick around the idea some more.

Sounds like a great idea! We could even live stream to YouTube.
Title: Re: First impressions and review of the Famag IM-5S Spiral mixer
Post by: jsobolew on July 10, 2021, 04:49:12 PM
I just tried the reverse technique in my IM-10 to help pick up those loose bits of flour along the edge of the bowl. While the reverse feature does help a good amount, it's not 100%. As previously stated by another, it does cause the dough to climb up the spiral and get gunked up so I recommend using it only on a very slow setting for only about 1 rotation at a time while watching it. It greatly reduced the amount that I needed to put my hands in the bowl the mix around the flour at the bottom that otherwise wouldn't get picked up.
Title: Re: First impressions and review of the Famag IM-5S Spiral mixer
Post by: Jackie Tran on July 11, 2021, 08:47:01 PM
Jsobolew, I haven't noticed that problem with my IM-5S.  I mixed a 1500gm dough batch tonight on spd 4 straight without any issues.   I add all the flour into the bowl and pour ice cold water in incrementally right away over 2 min or so.  A little at a time.  Once the dough formed I did noticed dry flour and bits in the corner but decided not to intervene.   After 5-6 minutes of mixing, maybe longer the dough eventually picked it all up and cleaned the bowl.  I divided the batch of dough after the mix into 3rds and didn't see or feel and unmixed lumps. 
Title: Re: First impressions and review of the Famag IM-5S Spiral mixer
Post by: lennyk on July 12, 2021, 07:17:47 AM
When you go to larger batches where the entire bottom of bowl is covered with dough ball is when you may have issues with dry clumps.
Title: Re: First impressions and review of the Famag IM-5S Spiral mixer
Post by: jsobolew on July 12, 2021, 01:56:53 PM
When you go to larger batches where the entire bottom of bowl is covered with dough ball is when you may have issues with dry clumps.

Yep. My batches are almost always pretty large and that's the case.
Title: Re: First impressions and review of the Famag IM-5S Spiral mixer
Post by: lennyk on July 13, 2021, 06:10:25 AM
I am doing 6kg total batches in my im8s and once I make sure the first third of flour is well mixed with the water the remaining thirds doesnt  get clumps

plus the 5% water added halfway thru helps clean the sides.

I think they key is to not have a big mass of flour hitting the water and sinking to the bottom of the bowl and forming a dry clump.

If the first third is well mixed with the water, the thick slurry kinda cushions any future flour from reaching the bottom and sticking in a dry mess.

Yep. My batches are almost always pretty large and that's the case.
Title: Re: First impressions and review of the Famag IM-5S Spiral mixer
Post by: billg on July 28, 2021, 02:09:51 PM
Hey guys,
Just wanted to share a picture of dough that I made with the Sunmix10.  I purposely wanted to see what would happen if I mixed the dough for much longer than I normally would (25 minutes), allowing the FDT to reach 82f.  The recipe was 966 grams of Ap flour from King Arthur (non bleached), 599 grams water ( cold with ice cubes), 25.1 grams salt, and 0.16 grams IDY.  The dough was build fermented at 72f for 18 hours, then balled.  The dough doubled in size.  When I went to ball the dough it was so airy and light and somewhat difficult to ball smoothly.  The picture speaks for itself.  My goal was to purposely try and over heat the dough and make it utterly useless.  I'm going to see what happens when I try to form the skins to see how the dough will perform.  I am going to cross post this in Chau's Famag thread to share results with home spiral mixers so we can all learn from each other.  Time will tell if it is totally useless or not.  From what I can tell now, I've done a lot worse trying not to screw up than by purposely trying!  These have been balled for 4.5 hours.
Title: Re: First impressions and review of the Famag IM-5S Spiral mixer
Post by: Jackie Tran on July 28, 2021, 02:27:12 PM
Nice experiment.   What I noticed with mine was that the balls didn't really relax even with an extended proof.  The dough balls were hard to open without tearing, big oven spring in the rim.  The crumb was surprisingly not tough but a little chewy as expected.
Title: Re: First impressions and review of the Famag IM-5S Spiral mixer
Post by: billg on July 28, 2021, 02:49:46 PM
Here's a great read to help determine the friction factor of your mixer written by Tom Lehmann.  I've been working on this all week to try to determine the friction factor of my mixer which I believe ranges from 40-50f.


https://www.pmq.com/hot-stuff-temperatures-explained#:~:text=The%20friction%20factor%20is%20determined%20as%20follows%3A%203,for%20each%20different%20size%2C%20dough%20that%20you%20make.
Title: Re: First impressions and review of the Famag IM-5S Spiral mixer
Post by: Pete-zza on July 28, 2021, 04:50:02 PM
billg,

Sometimes long links can go dead, so here is an abbreviated one:

https://www.pmq.com/hot-stuff-temperatures-explained

Tom's work on friction factor and related matters was also archived at the Wayback Machine at:

https://web.archive.org/web/20070502014430/http://www.pmq.com/mag/2003spring/tom_lehmann.shtml

Peter
Title: Re: First impressions and review of the Famag IM-5S Spiral mixer
Post by: BeanAnimal on July 31, 2021, 08:22:26 PM
Extremely Interesting thread!

Possibly dumb question.  I have a WFO and I have quickly determined that I am less a fan of softy silky NP and more of a classic fan. That is I like bit of chew with the crisp and also a huge NY Style fan and desire to perfect both styles in my WFO.

Apart from the benefits for breads, pastas, etc.  Does the spiral mixer translate well to the classical and NY style doughs?  I have wanted to pull the trigger on a sunmix for a while but am not sure if it will offer benefit for those styles.

Title: Re: First impressions and review of the Famag IM-5S Spiral mixer
Post by: billg on July 31, 2021, 08:59:41 PM
Extremely Interesting thread!

Possibly dumb question.  I have a WFO and I have quickly determined that I am less a fan of softy silky NP and more of a classic fan. That is I like bit of chew with the crisp and also a huge NY Style fan and desire to perfect both styles in my WFO.

Apart from the benefits for breads, pastas, etc.  Does the spiral mixer translate well to the classical and NY style doughs?  I have wanted to pull the trigger on a sunmix for a while but am not sure if it will offer benefit for those styles.

They are great for all kinds of dough!  Extremely versatile. 
Title: Re: First impressions and review of the Famag IM-5S Spiral mixer
Post by: Jackie Tran on July 31, 2021, 09:35:42 PM
Extremely Interesting thread!

Possibly dumb question.  I have a WFO and I have quickly determined that I am less a fan of softy silky NP and more of a classic fan. That is I like bit of chew with the crisp and also a huge NY Style fan and desire to perfect both styles in my WFO.

Apart from the benefits for breads, pastas, etc.  Does the spiral mixer translate well to the classical and NY style doughs?  I have wanted to pull the trigger on a sunmix for a while but am not sure if it will offer benefit for those styles.

That is a really good question.  While I do agree with BillG that it's works well for all manner of doughs I will say that yes I have noticed that in switching from the Kitchen Aide to the Spiral, I have noticed that the end product is a bit softer and less chewy.  And that small adjustments may have to be made if you like a crispier more chewy crust. 
Title: Re: First impressions and review of the Famag IM-5S Spiral mixer
Post by: billg on July 31, 2021, 10:21:51 PM
In the last 10 years I have owned a Hobart N50, Bosch Universal plus, Kitchen aid, Ankarsrum, Famag, Kenwood, and now the Sunmix 10.  I have made great dough from all of them.  Some had a larger learning curve than the others.  The Ankarsrum was probably the most difficult to learn and required the most attention ( but I liked it ).  In my humble opinion, none of these compare to the spiral mixer for dough or pizza.  Sure, they all have their learning curves.  Once you learn the ability to control the Final dough temperature in the Spiral mixer, it's a set it and forget it.  I've had my Sunmix for maybe 2 weeks now and have made dough every day.  It's awesome!!!  I have sold all the other mixers over time and only kept the Ankarsrum because my daughter likes to bake other things that a spiral is not made for.  The dough just comes out more complete.  It's difficult to describe until you use one.  In my experiment I did a few days ago I purposely tried to over mix and over heat the dough by mixing a small batch for like 25 minutes and it still turned out pretty good.  I now know that I can have an exact recipe and mix time for the type of pizza I want to make and not have to worry about how it's going to come out.  Yes there will always be some small adjustments but the Spiral made my life a lot easier and my dough has never looked or felt better.  I really love it!!!!!
Title: Re: First impressions and review of the Famag IM-5S Spiral mixer
Post by: bifi85 on August 01, 2021, 06:44:42 AM
Would be interesting to know until which point a spiral mixer has no significant impact on the pizza dough.

For example a 48 h room fermentation.

I would guess, especially when it comes to room fermentation. There is a point where it doesn't matter which machine you use (if you don't overmix).

Just combining the ingredients roughly to a homogeneous mass (by hand or any machine) and let the dough develop the gluten network by itself.
Title: Re: First impressions and review of the Famag IM-5S Spiral mixer
Post by: amolapizza on August 01, 2021, 06:45:59 AM
I might be completely mistaken but I have the distinct impression that increasing the mixing time thus the gluten development results in a chewier pizza!  I really should make some test doughs to verify this, but I've settled down into my comfort zone, and am quite happy with my results..  I've also given up on making lots of pizza that I'll throw away just to test theories..  It's just that everytime I try longer mixing times it seems like the result is chewier and not really what I'm searching for..

I seem to return to about 5 minutes mixing time for the softest result, I add everything (except for oil) to the bowl and let my Sunmix run at it's lowest speed for 5 minutes (68 rpm).  If I add oil I'll add it at the 3 minutes mark.

The result is a dough that isn't very well developed with "short" gluten chains.  That is to say it won't pass any kind of window pane test and tears quite easily if you try to make one.  Still after an hours rest it allows making very smooth balls and has a much more developed gluten web.

Once finished proofing and getting opened into skins it's a pleasure to work with.

Your mileage can and will probably wary a lot! :D

Edit: Note that this is for normal pizza dough at around 60% hydration.  For higher hydration (read 75-80%) I do use the higher speeds and let it go for a longer time.  For this kind of dough I'll normally start with around 65% hydration at middle speed (110 rpm) once the pumpkin has taken shape and I see that the gluten is beginning to get well developed I'll up the speed to max (208 rpm) and drizzle in the remaining water, the whole process takes about 10 minutes.
Title: Re: First impressions and review of the Famag IM-5S Spiral mixer
Post by: Elchimi on August 01, 2021, 07:51:32 AM
Iím also very happy with my spiral mixer and for me it has been a game changer at least for making pizza dough.
Iíve seen lots of folks pushing the mixing to the limit with their spiral mixers, going for more or less fully developed gluten after mixing for pizza dough.
That works a great for some of the flours Iíve been using, such as Contadino 00, All trunks, Caputo cuoco.
Iím pretty sure you canít do that with every single flour, for example I just started to incorporate some t65/tipo1 and I was told by Tom Lehman a few years ago that you can easily overmix this flour (due to the bran thatís in there, which can break/cut the gluten), probably moreso with a spiral mixer.
Also with lower protein flour probably can over mix easily (but I donít know that for sure)
The first batch Iíve made today with the t65 (for baguette and some other for bagels) actually looked great after just about 5min on low speed with my sunmix. I went up with the speed for a minute to see what happens and the dough felt very stable. Could be the flour too that may tolerate the mixing quite well.
The problem that I had in the past with the KA professional 7qt that the dough was underdeveloped on many occasions, I donít have that anymore with my spiral mixer. The danger now is overmixing I guessÖ
Title: Re: First impressions and review of the Famag IM-5S Spiral mixer
Post by: Jackie Tran on August 01, 2021, 07:55:42 AM
Would be interesting to know until which point a spiral mixer has no significant impact on the pizza dough.

For example a 48 h room fermentation.

I would guess, especially when it comes to room fermentation. There is a point where it doesn't matter which machine you use (if you don't overmix).

Just combining the ingredients roughly to a homogeneous mass (by hand or any machine) and let the dough develop the gluten network by itself.

Even then and within that time frame is the magic of the spiral mixer.   It seems to produce a stronger more aerated dough with a softer finishing crumb compared to using a planetary mixer or mixing by hand.  If the effect is reproducible by hand, it would be much more time consuming in that it would require multiple periods of rest and dough manipulation. 

One test I am looking forward to doing is that after I get more time in with the new mixer and consistent with my NP dough and mixing method and a more consistent NP result, I want to try and achieve the same result but in my KA or hand mixing.   That will really give a good idea as to the differences in the capabilites of each machine.  Have any of you guys done that test?
Title: Re: First impressions and review of the Famag IM-5S Spiral mixer
Post by: billg on August 01, 2021, 09:01:21 PM
Even then and within that time frame is the magic of the spiral mixer.   It seems to produce a stronger more aerated dough with a softer finishing crumb compared to using a planetary mixer or mixing by hand.  If the effect is reproducible by hand, it would be much more time consuming in that it would require multiple periods of rest and dough manipulation. 

One test I am looking forward to doing is that after I get more time in with the new mixer and consistent with my NP dough and mixing method and a more consistent NP result, I want to try and achieve the same result but in my KA or hand mixing.   That will really give a good idea as to the differences in the capabilites of each machine.  Have any of you guys done that test?

I totally agree.  When I went to ball the dough the other day I usually cut the same amount and adjust accordingly to get to 260-265 grams. I am usually close within 10 grams or so judging by the mass.   As I was dividing the dough at what I thought was going to be  close to my desired amount, I was short by 40 grams.  I was having a hard time judging the weight.  I seem to have to cut or divide a larger mass because it's so light and airy. 
Title: Re: First impressions and review of the Famag IM-5S Spiral mixer
Post by: Arne_Jervell on August 02, 2021, 10:37:36 AM
I'm probably preaching to the choir by now, but I am in full agreement: Dough from a spiral mixer has some really nice properties. I've too have made dough by hand, and I've used a couple of other mixers (Kenwood with J-hook, Kenwood with spiral-hook, Santos fork mixer). I've always been happy with these tools, no complaints really. But the spiral mixer is really something else. It amazes me how homogenous, tight, soft, airy and ... lovely and enjoyable! ... the dough comes out and ends up.

I seem to return to about 5 minutes mixing time for the softest result, I add everything (except for oil) to the bowl and let my Sunmix run at it's lowest speed for 5 minutes (68 rpm).  If I add oil I'll add it at the 3 minutes mark.

The result is a dough that isn't very well developed with "short" gluten chains.  That is to say it won't pass any kind of window pane test and tears quite easily if you try to make one.  Still after an hours rest it allows making very smooth balls and has a much more developed gluten web.

Once finished proofing and getting opened into skins it's a pleasure to work with.

Your mileage can and will probably wary a lot! :D

Edit: Note that this is for normal pizza dough at around 60% hydration.  For higher hydration (read 75-80%) I do use the higher speeds and let it go for a longer time.  For this kind of dough I'll normally start with around 65% hydration at middle speed (110 rpm) once the pumpkin has taken shape and I see that the gluten is beginning to get well developed I'll up the speed to max (208 rpm) and drizzle in the remaining water, the whole process takes about 10 minutes.

Jack, I have the same mixer (Sunmix6) and have seen you mention "five minutes on slowest speed" a number of times before. I've been wanting to ask you about some details, but your post above answers all my questions.  :)

After purchasing the Sunmix last year, I went through a lot of testing with different speeds, durations and combinations. For what it's worth, I too have now gravitated toward a very simple procedure, which works really well for my usual doughs (~24 hours, ~65% HR, Caputo Pizzeria): Mixing for a total of 7-8 minutes on 125 RPM. At this point the dough is well developed, probably a bit more than yours. The friction factor in this case is close to 7 įC, a fact I use to control the water temperature so I end up with my target FDT.

So predictable!

My only "problem" is that the machine is heavy (I have to carry it up and down a flight of stairs each time I'm using it because of my tiny kitchen size  :-D).
Title: Re: First impressions and review of the Famag IM-5S Spiral mixer
Post by: amolapizza on August 03, 2021, 04:40:47 AM
Arne, that seems like not a huge difference in mixing time, and maybe accounted for by the difference in hydration (65 vs 58%).  I think it's been mostly when I tried much longer times and higher speeds that I've noticed the chewiness.  Like 15 minutes mixing time, or using high speed on the spiral.

For the moment I'm happy with the 5 minutes, though you probably mix in more air than what I do.  I notice more air bubbles in the dough after mixing when I'm doing higher hydration dough, normally employing middle and high speed and letting it go for 10-15 minutes.

Something else I've noticed is that looking at how the dough wraps and breaks around the dough breaker bar is a pretty good way of visually judging the gluten development.
Title: Re: First impressions and review of the Famag IM-5S Spiral mixer
Post by: billg on August 03, 2021, 09:43:56 AM
Arne, that seems like not a huge difference in mixing time, and maybe accounted for by the difference in hydration (65 vs 58%).  I think it's been mostly when I tried much longer times and higher speeds that I've noticed the chewiness.  Like 15 minutes mixing time, or using high speed on the spiral.

For the moment I'm happy with the 5 minutes, though you probably mix in more air than what I do.  I notice more air bubbles in the dough after mixing when I'm doing higher hydration dough, normally employing middle and high speed and letting it go for 10-15 minutes.

Something else I've noticed is that looking at how the dough wraps and breaks around the dough breaker bar is a pretty good way of visually judging the gluten development.

Do you normally make your Neapolitan pies at 58% hydration?  If so, your mix times are in line for what I would do for Ny pies.  Try 62% hydration and mix a little longer (10-12) and see how you like it.  I'd love to know your thoughts.

regards,
Bill
Title: Re: First impressions and review of the Famag IM-5S Spiral mixer
Post by: amolapizza on August 03, 2021, 01:00:13 PM
I used to be at 60%, but think I could note just a hint of unbaked dough in the pizza.  This seemed to go away when I lowered to 58%.  I can certainly try a bit more someday (if I remember).. :D
Title: Re: First impressions and review of the Famag IM-5S Spiral mixer
Post by: bifi85 on August 03, 2021, 02:18:53 PM
The motor in the Famag IM-5S is not the strongest.
The operating instructions state that the machine can process a maximum of 5 kg dough (3 kg of flour and 2 kg of water).
In reality it is more a maximum of 3.5 kg dough.
If you make a pizza dough with 100 % biga you have to be even more careful.
Title: Re: First impressions and review of the Famag IM-5S Spiral mixer
Post by: Elchimi on August 04, 2021, 08:39:28 AM
T65 68% hydration after 4min, 23c
Title: Re: First impressions and review of the Famag IM-5S Spiral mixer
Post by: Jackie Tran on August 27, 2021, 07:47:45 PM
Extremely Interesting thread!

Possibly dumb question.  I have a WFO and I have quickly determined that I am less a fan of softy silky NP and more of a classic fan. That is I like bit of chew with the crisp and also a huge NY Style fan and desire to perfect both styles in my WFO.

Apart from the benefits for breads, pastas, etc.  Does the spiral mixer translate well to the classical and NY style doughs?  I have wanted to pull the trigger on a sunmix for a while but am not sure if it will offer benefit for those styles.

Not a dumb question at all but a very intuitive one.   In making batch after batch of NP dough, I have notice and reported softer crumbs compared to my previous KItchen Aide doughs.    It stands to reason this would translate over into NY doughs.   I've since made 3-4 batches of dough to confirm this.   That you will lose a bit of crisp, crunch, and chewiness.  Not necessarily a bad thing, as everyone seeks a different finishing texture.   You can however adjust your formula to make adjust for the mixer.   You'll have to lower your hydration and/or fat or oil in the dough by a percentage or so.   Some experimentation is necessary here.   It took me 10 yrs of experimenting to come up with my NY recipe for my KA mixer, it makes sense it will take some tries to get it dialed in with the new mixer.  I have full confidence that it is possible. 
Title: Re: First impressions and review of the Famag IM-5S Spiral mixer
Post by: ARenko on September 18, 2021, 01:32:52 PM
Been eyeing the IM-5S for a while - looks like it just had a big price increase.
Title: Re: First impressions and review of the Famag IM-5S Spiral mixer
Post by: Elchimi on September 18, 2021, 01:40:21 PM
Could consider the sunmix 6 instead
Title: Re: First impressions and review of the Famag IM-5S Spiral mixer
Post by: ARenko on September 18, 2021, 02:49:19 PM
Could consider the sunmix 6 instead
Famag is now the price of what the Sunmix was (it looks to have gone up as well by a similar amount IIRC).
Title: First impressions and review of the Famag IM-5S Spiral mixer
Post by: Elchimi on September 18, 2021, 02:57:45 PM
Famag is now the price of what the Sunmix was (it looks to have gone up as well by a similar amount IIRC).
Youíre right, prices went up. usually youíd get 10% off on the sunmix, will be around $1700 then. At least for mine I didnít get charged for shipping though.
Title: Re: First impressions and review of the Famag IM-5S Spiral mixer
Post by: scott r on September 18, 2021, 03:49:57 PM
I am talking to importers telling me that their Italian tomatoes now cost 10 times more to ship from Italy.  If this is true be ready for even more increases soon, and many products not available any more.   Sad times!
Title: Re: First impressions and review of the Famag IM-5S Spiral mixer
Post by: Pete-zza on September 18, 2021, 05:11:00 PM
I am talking to importers telling me that their Italian tomatoes now cost 10 times more to ship from Italy.  If this is true be ready for even more increases soon, and many products not available any more.   Sad times!
Scott,

Anything that is shipping related, whether it is ship, trucking or railroad related, and whether it is domestic or foreign, is a big problem at this time. There is even a shortage of shipping boxes and other containers. As an example, I read the following this morning in a finance related article as follows:

For instance, the Financial Times reports shippers canít find enough metal shipping containers to transport all the stuff we want to buy.

Chinese manufacturers are pumping out record volumes of freight containers after shippers ordered vast stacks of the steel boxes in an attempt to smooth out disruptions in the global supply chainÖ

The worldís biggest box manufacturers, China International Marine Containers (CIMC), Dongfang International Container and CXIC Group, are struggling to meet demand, even though production has been increased with workersí hours extended.

ďThe factories are running pretty hard out,Ē said Brian Sondey, chief executive of Triton International, the worldís largest container leasing company, which rents boxes to shipping groups.

Even if the boxes can be found, they often arrive at US ports only to spend a week or more waiting for dock space to unload. Hereís a look at the Long Beach port last week. The green dots offshore are anchored container ships, each holding thousands of containers packed with stuff we need.


The photo as referenced in the above and that shows the logjam of ships in parts of California is shown below. In the photo, the green dots offshore are anchored container ships, each holding thousands of containers packed with stuff we need.

For those who wish to do a deeper dive on the shipping side of this matter, the following article may be instructive:

https://blog.evergreengavekal.com/they-paved-the-port-and-put-up-a-parking-lot/?pdf=11856

Peter

Title: Re: First impressions and review of the Famag IM-5S Spiral mixer
Post by: ARenko on September 18, 2021, 06:51:07 PM
Youíre right, prices went up. usually youíd get 10% off on the sunmix, will be around $1700 then. At least for mine I didnít get charged for shipping though.
Not sure how you get the 10%, but it's $1890 now. Was around $1600.
Title: Re: First impressions and review of the Famag IM-5S Spiral mixer
Post by: Elchimi on September 18, 2021, 07:54:39 PM
Not sure how you get the 10%, but it's $1890 now. Was around $1600.
Pizzagoods may give you 10% off. Totally worth it, exceptional machine built like a tank.
Title: Re: First impressions and review of the Famag IM-5S Spiral mixer
Post by: billg on September 19, 2021, 05:27:24 PM
 ^^^
Title: Re: First impressions and review of the Famag IM-5S Spiral mixer
Post by: ARenko on September 19, 2021, 08:04:39 PM
Pizzagoods may give you 10% off. Totally worth it, exceptional machine built like a tank.
On what basis might they give it to me?  Are they on the forum?
Title: Re: First impressions and review of the Famag IM-5S Spiral mixer
Post by: Elchimi on September 19, 2021, 08:41:37 PM
Yes he should be here. Iíd just email him or get on the phone with him and get a quote

Pasquale Donnarumma
Address: 33160 Aventura FL
M: + 1 (305) 322-7199
E: [email protected]
W: www.pizzagoods.com
YouTube: PizzaGoods
Title: Re: First impressions and review of the Famag IM-5S Spiral mixer
Post by: ilya_n on October 14, 2021, 08:32:00 AM
I hate you guys!!!! (in the most loving and respectful way hahahahaha)

Looks like I'll be out of $1700 now while I was ok(ish) with my KA (except for weird noise when it mixes the doughs and sounds like it's gonna die on me)
I have to say this post peaked my interest to look into the spiral mixer closer.

Chau - this was some of the absolutely incredible testing that you performed. Hats off to you!!! So nice to see factual comparisons like this. Keep it up!!!

Question to you guys, is it a concern that Famag's head tilts and the bowl is removable from the reliability perspective? Everyone says that Sunmix is like a tank and I wonder if that's a part of it. Of course the convenience of removing the bowl is attractive for cleaning, dough removal etc. but only if this doesn't jeopardize the life span of the mixer. It is a significant investment...

Off mixer shopping...    :-D
Title: Re: First impressions and review of the Famag IM-5S Spiral mixer
Post by: ARenko on October 14, 2021, 09:31:22 AM
I hate you guys!!!! (in the most loving and respectful way hahahahaha)

Looks like I'll be out of $1700 now while I was ok(ish) with my KA (except for weird noise when it mixes the doughs and sounds like it's gonna die on me)
I have to say this post peaked my interest to look into the spiral mixer closer.

Chau - this was some of the absolutely incredible testing that you performed. Hats off to you!!! So nice to see factual comparisons like this. Keep it up!!!

Question to you guys, is it a concern that Famag's head tilts and the bowl is removable from the reliability perspective? Everyone says that Sunmix is like a tank and I wonder if that's a part of it. Of course the convenience of removing the bowl is attractive for cleaning, dough removal etc. but only if this doesn't jeopardize the life span of the mixer. It is a significant investment...

Off mixer shopping...    :-D
There is a no tilt, fixed bowl version in the same size if you're concerned.
Title: Re: First impressions and review of the Famag IM-5S Spiral mixer
Post by: Jackie Tran on October 14, 2021, 10:09:43 AM
I've only had mine for 4-5months so I can't speak to it's longevity, but I expect this mixer may outlive me.   They are built solid, much more so and beefier than a standard kitchen Aid.   In using it 4x a week in the last 4-5 months, there has been about 4 times when I've opted to detach the bowl to wash in the sink.  During those times, I've been glad to have the option to do so.  The rest of the time I've cleaned it after each use with the bowl attached and the head tilted up and it's easy enough to do so.   If I was doing a lot of wet sticky doughs, I think I would lean towards having a detachable bowl.
Title: Re: First impressions and review of the Famag IM-5S Spiral mixer
Post by: scott r on October 14, 2021, 10:09:54 AM
I have been using my famag quite a lot for many months and I have zero concern about the removable bowl being an issue down the road.  Seems to be built like a tank to me.    Its a very simple mechanism that allows the tilt and bowl removal.
Title: Re: First impressions and review of the Famag IM-5S Spiral mixer
Post by: ilya_n on October 14, 2021, 05:42:38 PM
Thanks gents! I like the tilt and removable bowl type better... sounds like a non-issue.

Could you validate one thing for me please? I saw on Pleasant Hill Grain that the size of it is:

Dimensions: Arm Down (W x D x H)1   18.7" x 10.2" x 15.3"
Dimensions: Arm Up (W x D x H)1   20.2" x 10.2" x 26"

Looking at pictures (if you face the bowl) it seems that it's deeper and narrower rather than the 20" width the site provides... could you please let me know if it's wider or deeper? I have an available counter space that is WxDxH 17"x22"x23". I want to make sure it would fit there before trying to convince my better half why there will be a tank :)

Title: Re: First impressions and review of the Famag IM-5S Spiral mixer
Post by: Jackie Tran on October 14, 2021, 08:56:22 PM
Here are the measurements for the IM-5S
WDH arm down is 10"x20"x16"
WDH arm up 10x21x26.

It is both deeper and taller than it is wide.  It is 10" from side to side.

Hope that helps.
Title: Re: First impressions and review of the Famag IM-5S Spiral mixer
Post by: ilya_n on October 14, 2021, 08:57:53 PM
Here are the measurements for the IM-5S
WDH arm down is 10"x20"x16"
WDH arm up 10x21x26.

It is both deeper and taller than it is wide.  It is 10" from side to side.

Hope that helps.


Thatís what I thought. Thank you for confirmation.
Title: Re: First impressions and review of the Famag IM-5S Spiral mixer
Post by: Jackie Tran on October 14, 2021, 09:01:55 PM
That spot you have looks like a perfect fit.
Title: Re: First impressions and review of the Famag IM-5S Spiral mixer
Post by: ilya_n on October 15, 2021, 08:25:14 AM
That spot you have looks like a perfect fit.

Thanks a bunch!!!
Title: Re: First impressions and review of the Famag IM-5S Spiral mixer
Post by: ilya_n on October 15, 2021, 08:32:00 AM
I think we have Famag or Pleasant Hill watching this thread lol
The website specs got updated overnight:

Manufacturer Part Number   IM-5SHH
Brand   Famag
Width   Facing control panel, arm down: 18.7"
Depth   Facing control panel, w/bowl: 10.2"
Height   Arm down: 15.25" / Arm up: 26"

It now says "Facing control panel" :)

It is very helpful though...
Title: Re: First impressions and review of the Famag IM-5S Spiral mixer
Post by: ilya_n on October 15, 2021, 09:52:54 AM
Placed an order for the sparkle silver which is on back order but hey - no rush here... will probably take a month or two...  ;D

Thanks everyone and especially Chau for such an incredible writeup, review and comparison!!! I will continue to follow for tips and tricks...
Title: Re: First impressions and review of the Famag IM-5S Spiral mixer
Post by: Elchimi on October 15, 2021, 11:35:20 AM
How much is the Griletta nowadays?
You got the 10 speed?
Congrats on your purchase
Title: Re: First impressions and review of the Famag IM-5S Spiral mixer
Post by: HansB on October 15, 2021, 12:36:09 PM
I still cannot decide between the Famag & Sunmix!  ???
Title: Re: First impressions and review of the Famag IM-5S Spiral mixer
Post by: ilya_n on October 15, 2021, 01:08:09 PM
How much is the Griletta nowadays?
You got the 10 speed?
Congrats on your purchase

Thank you. I got the IM-5S HH. 1629 shipped. Fixed bowl is significantly cheaper as well.
Title: Re: First impressions and review of the Famag IM-5S Spiral mixer
Post by: amolapizza on October 15, 2021, 04:29:20 PM
It's easy to clean out pizza dough, just a scotchbrite and some water and a towel.

A rich dough like brioche is a little more work but quickly done.

Best done before the dough dries on the spiral and bowl! :D
Title: Re: First impressions and review of the Famag IM-5S Spiral mixer
Post by: ilya_n on October 15, 2021, 04:56:55 PM
It's easy to clean out pizza dough, just a scotchbrite and some water and a towel.

A rich dough like brioche is a little more work but quickly done.

Best done before the dough dries on the spiral and bowl! :D

Iím sure it is :)
Felt like the tilting bowl and HH is an upgrade worth it. Last thing I would want thinking down the road ďI wish I had itÖĒ  8)
Title: Re: First impressions and review of the Famag IM-5S Spiral mixer
Post by: billg on October 15, 2021, 05:34:29 PM
I've owned both machines.  The Sunmix is very easy to clean.  Don't let that stop you if that's the one you want.  It literally takes 5 minutes to clean.  Hot water in the bowl covered with a rag for 5 minutes.  Uncover and use a small towel or dishrag to remove any residue, remove excess water and wipe clean.  Easy Peasy!!!!!!
Title: Re: First impressions and review of the Famag IM-5S Spiral mixer
Post by: ilya_n on October 15, 2021, 07:29:35 PM
I've owned both machines.  The Sunmix is very easy to clean.  Don't let that stop you if that's the one you want.  It literally takes 5 minutes to clean.  Hot water in the bowl covered with a rag for 5 minutes.  Uncover and use a small towel or dishrag to remove any residue, remove excess water and wipe clean.  Easy Peasy!!!!!!

Itís not only that but also the ability to measure Ingrid right in the bowl etc. Multiple factors here. Order placed - excited to get and use it!!!
Title: Re: First impressions and review of the Famag IM-5S Spiral mixer
Post by: mmille24 on October 16, 2021, 08:05:17 PM
Anyone have the IM-5S HH? Is it really necessary for high hydration? I would think the normal version could get it done.

https://pleasanthillgrain.com/famag-high-hydration-grilletta-spiral-dough-mixer

Thoughts?
Title: Re: First impressions and review of the Famag IM-5S Spiral mixer
Post by: ilya_n on October 17, 2021, 08:44:52 AM
Anyone have the IM-5S HH? Is it really necessary for high hydration? I would think the normal version could get it done.

https://pleasanthillgrain.com/famag-high-hydration-grilletta-spiral-dough-mixer

Thoughts?

Iíve placed an order for HH and Chau has the same model that the review was about. The price difference is $60 between the two. Not sure if it makes sense to go without HH optionÖ
Title: Re: First impressions and review of the Famag IM-5S Spiral mixer
Post by: mmille24 on October 17, 2021, 04:52:44 PM
Iíve placed an order for HH and Chau has the same model that the review was about. The price difference is $60 between the two. Not sure if it makes sense to go without HH optionÖ

The price isn't holding me back as much as the color is. I really love the Marina.
Title: Re: First impressions and review of the Famag IM-5S Spiral mixer
Post by: ilya_n on October 18, 2021, 09:28:23 AM
The price isn't holding me back as much as the color is. I really love the Marina.

Got you. It's a nice looking machine. I went for a classic sparkle silver to kind of match stainless steel - only one on backorder lol
Title: Re: First impressions and review of the Famag IM-5S Spiral mixer
Post by: ilya_n on November 12, 2021, 11:48:05 PM
After waiting for sparkling silver for some time it went to back order until June 2022. Called in to switch the order to the last dark silver unit. Arrived today and I made 80% hydration focaccia doughÖ wowÖ that gluten building is amazingÖ I could never get the pane window test out of my KA before hand kneading.
Title: Re: First impressions and review of the Famag IM-5S Spiral mixer
Post by: PC105105 on December 11, 2021, 03:29:45 PM
Has anyone had issues with the famag  not working? I bought a brand new Famag IM 10s. Sometimes I press the arrow to turn on, and it just makes this clicking noise. The outlet isnít the issue. Everything is locked in place. Any suggestions? Sounds almost like a short inside the machine, this clicking noise.
Title: Re: First impressions and review of the Famag IM-5S Spiral mixer
Post by: scott r on December 11, 2021, 04:01:12 PM
so far only good luck with mine
Title: Re: First impressions and review of the Famag IM-5S Spiral mixer
Post by: loch on December 11, 2021, 04:04:47 PM
I'm not an electrician and don't own the machine, but check out this thread and see if it covers what your mixer might be having a problem with.

"Don't know if this is still an issue, but it is likely not a grounding issue, and more the nature of the Famag speed controller.  If the Famag uses a VFD to control the speed, these are known to not work well with GFCI outlets.  So you probably don't have a grounding issue, you're just using an appliance in an outlet that isn't suited for it.  A quick google search for 'VFD GFCI' will bring up numerous pages."

https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=66546.msg665344#msg665344

Dave
Title: Re: First impressions and review of the Famag IM-5S Spiral mixer
Post by: scott r on December 11, 2021, 07:10:16 PM
not that this means anything, but mine is on a gfci and has always been fine
Title: Re: First impressions and review of the Famag IM-5S Spiral mixer
Post by: jsobolew on December 12, 2021, 01:03:42 PM
Has anyone had issues with the famag  not working? I bought a brand new Famag IM 10s. Sometimes I press the arrow to turn on, and it just makes this clicking noise. The outlet isnít the issue. Everything is locked in place. Any suggestions? Sounds almost like a short inside the machine, this clicking noise.

Yes, there are several safety mechanisms to stop the machine so you don't hurt yourself. I learned this after thinking there was something wrong with my machine, like you. Try making sure the top is fully down, locked in and the screws are tight. I believe if the screws are not fully tightened, it will not turn on. Same thing with the grate over the bowl.
Title: Re: First impressions and review of the Famag IM-5S Spiral mixer
Post by: ARenko on December 12, 2021, 07:33:44 PM
not that this means anything, but mine is on a gfci and has always been fine
Me too.  VFD's and GFCI's can be a problem, but probably not in this size, or Famag has taken this into account in their design.  But it's something easy for PC105105 to check by seeing if the outlet is actually tripped or plugging the unit into a non-GFCI outlet.  Or, call his supplier rather than rely on pizzamaking.com to resolve this.
Title: Re: First impressions and review of the Famag IM-5S Spiral mixer
Post by: 02ebz06 on December 13, 2021, 10:33:35 AM
Here is a bit of trivia about GFCI outlets. Copied from Fluke web site. Fluke makes electronic test equipment.

"A GFCI uses a current transformer to detect the difference between the line current supplied to the load and the neutral current returning from the load. Ideally, this difference should be zero because both currents cancel. If there is a current differential, it becomes the input to a comparator within the GFCI, which changes states when the differential is around 6 mA. When the comparator changes states, it triggers a silicon-controlled rectifier, which disconnects the power from the output of the GFCI."

"GFCIs should be checked monthly by operating the push-buttons on the front labeled "Test" and "Reset." In addition to checking for proper operation, monthly testing also makes sure the mechanical components of the receptacle are in working order. Simple GFCI testers are available for less than $15, or for less than $150, you can purchase a high-quality, industrial electrical tester can check for energized circuits, test AC and DC voltages, resistance, continuity, and phase rotation between any two phases and GFCIs."


"What causes a GFCI to trip

When a GFCI outlet keeps tripping, there must be a reason. Instead of just resetting the GFCI, you should also investigate the cause of the trip.

Ground faults occur when electrical current finds an unintended path to ground. The usual suspects for ground-faults include worn insulation, conductive dusts, water, or other "soft grounds." Ground faults account for more than 80% of equipment short circuits and in 90% of those cases it is caused by insulation deterioration on wires and cables. If a human becomes the unintended path, current as low as 75 mA can trigger ventricular fibrillation (i.e., when the heart stops pumping, which leads to cardiac arrest).

Another name for a ground fault is leakage current. Although wiring insulation is designed to keep electricity in the conductor, all insulators have some conductivity. While not perfect, even air can be an insulator. Insulation conducts current through both electrically resistive and capacitive paths. If insulation is old or damaged its resistance is lower and leakage current could become substantial. The insulation protecting longer conductors has higher capacitance, which can cause even more leakage current.

On GFCI-protected circuits, leakage current can cause unnecessary and intermittent tripping. When troubleshooting these intermittent "ghost" trips, sometimes looking for the leakage current culprit can be costly. When many pieces of equipment are operating on a circuit, the leakage current is cumulative and could be in the order of milliamps. Adding more equipment to a GFCI-protected circuit could cause a GFCI to trip randomly, making the problem difficult to diagnose."


"Diagnosing GFCI trips
Start by measuring the leakage current and then identify the source. Use a leakage current clamp meter to make these measurements. Leakage current clamp meters are similar to clamp meters used for measuring load currents; however, leakage current clamp meters perform much better when measuring current below 5 mA.

Test single-phase circuits by clamping the phase and neutral conductors. Test three-phase circuits by clamping around all phase conductors. If a neutral is present, clamp it too. The measured value will be any current flowing to ground. To measure the total leakage flowing to the intended ground connection, place the clamp around the ground conductor.

Measure the leakage current on each leg of the circuit to identify which one has considerably more leakage than the others. If one leg has a suspiciously high leakage current, ensure that the equipment is operating properly. Remember that surge suppression filters and capacitors on the power input of some electronic equipment can increase the overall circuit capacitance, which can increase leakage current. Determine loaded circuit leg leakage with the equipment "on"óswitching the equipment "off" allows you to determine just the circuit wiring leakage.

If equipment on all legs is operating properly and the wiring is acceptable, it could be that the cumulative leakage current due to electronic equipment input filtering is just high enough to trigger the random GFCI tripping. In this case, consider redistributing the load on each circuit leg or adding circuits to provide more capacity."



Anybody still awake ?  :-D

Equipment with motors tend to have problems more than other equipment.
I doubt you will find any refrigerator in a kitchen on a GFCI circuit. Mine isn't
Title: Re: First impressions and review of the Famag IM-5S Spiral mixer
Post by: ARenko on December 19, 2021, 11:23:25 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DPVtL1PWqKA
Title: Re: First impressions and review of the Famag IM-5S Spiral mixer
Post by: 02ebz06 on December 19, 2021, 12:42:09 PM
Good video, but...

A Siemens Circuit breaker won't just plug into any breaker box.  Different manufactures have different breakers.
There are multiple types of circuit breakers (see link), if you replace one, you should replace it with the right type.

https://www.homedepot.com/c/ab/types-of-circuit-breakers/9ba683603be9fa5395fab900f0d22b4
Title: Re: First impressions and review of the Famag IM-5S Spiral mixer
Post by: ARenko on December 19, 2021, 01:31:26 PM
Good video, but...

A Siemens Circuit breaker won't just plug into any breaker box.  Different manufactures have different breakers.
There are multiple types of circuit breakers (see link), if you replace one, you should replace it with the right type.

https://www.homedepot.com/c/ab/types-of-circuit-breakers/9ba683603be9fa5395fab900f0d22b4
They are just mentioning a type that some customers have found to solve the problem.  Presumably those customers replaced one type of GFCI breaker witht the Siemens one.  Most who are considering changing out breakers should probably hire an electrician just like they suggest at the beginning of the video.
Title: Re: First impressions and review of the Famag IM-5S Spiral mixer
Post by: ARenko on December 28, 2021, 08:47:05 AM
Has anyone had issues with the famag  not working? I bought a brand new Famag IM 10s. Sometimes I press the arrow to turn on, and it just makes this clicking noise. The outlet isnít the issue. Everything is locked in place. Any suggestions? Sounds almost like a short inside the machine, this clicking noise.
I've had the machine stop twice on me mid-mix (on GFCI that isn't tripped and on non-GFCI before we get into that again).  And then I experienced the same non-start/ clicking sound you mention.  Both times I reset it by opening the grate, tilting the head up, and closing them back again.  Although the first time I had to do that several times.  I will be contacting Pleasant Hill.  Just wondering if you learned any more about what was going on with your unit.
Title: Re: First impressions and review of the Famag IM-5S Spiral mixer
Post by: HansB on January 21, 2022, 09:10:11 AM
I've had the machine stop twice on me mid-mix (on GFCI that isn't tripped and on non-GFCI before we get into that again).  And then I experienced the same non-start/ clicking sound you mention.  Both times I reset it by opening the grate, tilting the head up, and closing them back again.  Although the first time I had to do that several times.  I will be contacting Pleasant Hill.  Just wondering if you learned any more about what was going on with your unit.

Have you solved the issue?
Title: Re: First impressions and review of the Famag IM-5S Spiral mixer
Post by: HansB on January 21, 2022, 09:12:14 AM
After 8-9 yrs of using a Classic 5qt KA mixer, I finally decided to pull the trigger on a spiral mixer.  My curiosity about the necessity of a "real" mixer for making NP dough has finally pushed me over the edge.   I have used the KA extensively and thoroughly and I want to know if having a fancy mixer will make any difference if at all for my doughs.  Although I don't make a classic (VPN) dough, I am familiar with my dough and my desired crust qualities soa I will be able to tell how much of a difference this mixer will make compared to my KA dough. 
I will also do a review of the mixer and attempt to answer some questions for those who are curious. 

I ordered the Famag IM-5S from pleasanthillgrain.com after some very helpful discussion and advice  from members Scott R and Alex (Doouball).   I ordered this mixer back in the beginning of March and it has been on backorder since then.  I even considered canceling the order several times, but it has finally arrived.   The mixer came packed very well.

More info can be found here.
https://pleasanthillgrain.com/famag-high-hydration-grilletta-spiral-dough-mixer

Chau, what are your thoughts after having the mixer for over six months? Are you still using it regularly? Would you buy it again? Cheers!
Title: Re: First impressions and review of the Famag IM-5S Spiral mixer
Post by: ilya_n on January 21, 2022, 10:45:01 AM
Chau, what are your thoughts after having the mixer for over six months? Are you still using it regularly? Would you buy it again? Cheers!

Hans - I can't speak for Chau but from a few months of my experience I can honestly say that I wish I bought my IM-5S SOONER. The dough comes out amazing every single time. I use it 1-2 times a week for bread, focaccia, pizzas and some other dough dishes. It works so effortless and builds the gluten really well. The only problem I had with it was I over kneaded the dough once and it was fighting me back stretching the skins lol Other than that I couldn't praise it enough. My previous mixers were KA 5 Artisan and KA 6 Pro. Even dough (pun intended) they are nowhere close in price, the Famag (and Sunmix I'm sure) is exponentially better for the dough applications.

Last comment I have is I'm extremely happy that I went with the tilted head Famag model. I know most sunmix users say it's no big deal to wash the bowl etc., but I can see that I would be very annoyed if I couldn't remove the bowl to wash it. Maybe I just haven't tried it enough times but I'm glad I have the removable head. If I was to go back in time I would still opt in for the same exact model.

High hydration feature is questionable as I never used the standard one... can't speak for that...


Hope that helps...
Title: Re: First impressions and review of the Famag IM-5S Spiral mixer
Post by: HansB on January 21, 2022, 11:15:03 AM
Hans - I can't speak for Chau but from a few months of my experience I can honestly say that I wish I bought my IM-5S SOONER. The dough comes out amazing every single time. I use it 1-2 times a week for bread, focaccia, pizzas and some other dough dishes. It works so effortless and builds the gluten really well. The only problem I had with it was I over kneaded the dough once and it was fighting me back stretching the skins lol Other than that I couldn't praise it enough. My previous mixers were KA 5 Artisan and KA 6 Pro. Even dough (pun intended) they are nowhere close in price, the Famag (and Sunmix I'm sure) is exponentially better for the dough applications.

Last comment I have is I'm extremely happy that I went with the tilted head Famag model. I know most sunmix users say it's no big deal to wash the bowl etc., but I can see that I would be very annoyed if I couldn't remove the bowl to wash it. Maybe I just haven't tried it enough times but I'm glad I have the removable head. If I was to go back in time I would still opt in for the same exact model.

High hydration feature is questionable as I never used the standard one... can't speak for that...


Hope that helps...

That does help. Thanks so much for your post!
Title: Re: First impressions and review of the Famag IM-5S Spiral mixer
Post by: amolapizza on January 21, 2022, 11:20:05 AM
I'll jump in for the defence of the Sunmix! :D

I really don't think it's a problem to clean it, a minute with some water, a scotchbrite and a few towels.  Even rich dough like brioche isn't a big problem, though slightly more tenacious especially if you let it dry.

The other observation is that I've never had a problem with it turning, maybe it's true that fixed head mixers are more reliable than the ones with a tilting head.  Less mechanical parts and all that.
Title: Re: First impressions and review of the Famag IM-5S Spiral mixer
Post by: ilya_n on January 21, 2022, 11:23:59 AM
I'll jump in for the defence of the Sunmix! :D

I really don't think it's a problem to clean it, a minute with some water, a scotchbrite and a few towels.  Even rich dough like brioche isn't a big problem, though slightly more tenacious especially if you let it dry.

The other observation is that I've never had a problem with it turning, maybe it's true that fixed head mixers are more reliable than the ones with a tilting head.  Less mechanical parts and all that.

I wasn't saying sunmix is worse so I hope it didn't come out that way :) sunmix is amazing!!! I like to wash with dishwashing liquid so I'm sure without rinsing it I would end up with soapy dressing on my pizzas at some point haha it's just me though :)
Title: Re: First impressions and review of the Famag IM-5S Spiral mixer
Post by: amolapizza on January 21, 2022, 11:46:53 AM
Nah, no problems!

I just wanted to speak out for Sunmix as I've often heard this argument.  Just to point out that personally I don't think it's a real issue at all.  But YMMV and all that!
Title: Re: First impressions and review of the Famag IM-5S Spiral mixer
Post by: billg on January 21, 2022, 11:52:02 AM
Nah, no problems!

I just wanted to speak out for Sunmix as I've often heard this argument.  Just to point out that personally I don't think it's a real issue at all.  But YMMV and all that!

Cleaning the Sunmix is super easy and takes 5 minutes.
Title: Re: First impressions and review of the Famag IM-5S Spiral mixer
Post by: Jackie Tran on January 22, 2022, 03:15:11 AM
Chau, what are your thoughts after having the mixer for over six months? Are you still using it regularly? Would you buy it again? Cheers!

Sorry I missed this Hans.  I did a few tests between the Famag and my KA dough and the dough quality and difference is undeniable.  The dough is silkier, gluten development is better and stronger, and the crumb is somehow more tender.  Gluten development is more efficient and gentle.  The dough looks smoother and holds air better.  The dough balls are lighter in color (more oxidized) and proof up around 25-30% larger in volume. I think for a NP purist or a dedicated bread maker a spiral mixer is hands down a better machine and makes better products.   It is built stronger and can handle bigger batches of low hydration doughs.

The downsides.   Cost...you can buy a used KA for $100 and it will make great pizza and breads.  No mixer will make up the difference of knowledge and technique.  Will it make your pizzas that mich better? Likely not, maybe...depends.  Is the spiral mixer worth $1600+?  I can't answer that.  Too subjective.   Because it makes a softer dough, as far as pizza goes it's better for NP than say crunchier or crispier pizzas imo.  For my NY and pan pizzas, bc I like them on the crispier side, it does take away a bit from the textural crispness. It's noticeable but not a huge deal.  If you like classic, foldable, slightly chewy NY pizza, then it's perfect for that.  I used the Famag 3-4 times a week since I got it until recently.   I've taken a break from pizza and spending lots more time snowboarding for the winter.   In that time I maybe used my KA 2x for those few comparison tests.   For me, the Famag is a joy to learn and use.   I would say for the hard-core pizza members and bread makers, if you have the extra cash and space for it, jump on it.  For the others who can't or dont get one, you don't need it.  I used a classic KA mixer I bought off of CL for $60 for almost 10yrs and was able to make very good pizza and breads with it.  You don't even need a mixer.   I'm pretty sure Craig still uses his KA or makes dough by hand.  You can make great dough by hand if you have the patience and a bit of time. 
Was it worth it?  For me I would say yes.   I don't mind spending the extra dough for the sake of furthering my learning.  Life is short, do what you love and want.  Hope that helps.

Chau
Title: Re: First impressions and review of the Famag IM-5S Spiral mixer
Post by: 02ebz06 on January 22, 2022, 10:39:09 AM
Thanks for the write-up Chau.
Now you've got me hoping my Viking mixer dies so I have an excuse to buy one.  :-D
Title: Re: First impressions and review of the Famag IM-5S Spiral mixer
Post by: HansB on January 22, 2022, 11:25:16 AM
Thanks Chau, between Scott R, iLya, and others, I ordered the IM-5S tilt version. Like you, I don't need one at all but I think it will be a fun addition. It should arrive in early May.
Title: Re: First impressions and review of the Famag IM-5S Spiral mixer
Post by: Heikjo on January 22, 2022, 05:41:18 PM
I also appreciate the so-far-summary, which falls in line with what Iíve gathered from others.

For people as dedicated to pizza and doughs as many are in here, and you can afford it, it seems like a reasonable investment. If one purchases a quality machine, it can last a lifetime, if they still make stuff that sturdy.

For an NP lover as myself, I probably see myself buying one some time down the line when I got the space for both my oven and a mixer.
Title: Re: First impressions and review of the Famag IM-5S Spiral mixer
Post by: jenea on January 23, 2022, 11:42:41 AM
for a long time I used a Kitchen aid and got my process down to make great pizza. treated myself 3 months ago to a sunmix 5  and I'm loving it. the first pizza made with it was great and great the first time. mixing times have gotten shorter as its much more efficient at mixing and kneading as others have said. my bread making has reached new heights as the KA could never mix/knead as well as the sunmix (30 years of drumming has ruined my hands for hand kneading). like mentioned above, I regret not getting one sooner. but truth be told, I never even knew of spiral mixers till I found this forum! So thanks!

they are a lot of money, but I feel like they are a multiple lifetime investment. my son comes over once a week for pizza and has loved playing with the new toy. our next goal is fresh pasta with it (my grandmother would kill me. pasta is a hand needed thing Im sure she would tell me). But if I got the right tool, Im gonna use it! only you can decide if its worth the money to you. but life is short and if you got the money, treat yourself. just be careful cause you will wind up using it a lot to justify the money and eat a lot more pizza than normal, at least I have and my waist is hating me for it!

john
Title: Re: First impressions and review of the Famag IM-5S Spiral mixer
Post by: amolapizza on January 23, 2022, 01:15:46 PM
FWIW, I use my Sunmix for egg pasta (durum/grano duro) too.

I only make about 500g at a time.  It does take most of the work out of the process, but I always have to finish with some hand kneading.
Title: Re: First impressions and review of the Famag IM-5S Spiral mixer
Post by: Bobino414 on January 24, 2022, 08:12:53 PM



[/quote]

This video from The Perfect Loaf suggests the use of only two speeds i.e. #1 and #5.

What speeds do you use for your pizza? 

? Different speeds for different pizza styles?
Title: Re: First impressions and review of the Famag IM-5S Spiral mixer
Post by: ARenko on January 24, 2022, 09:00:37 PM
Have you solved the issue?
No.  I never got around to contacting Pleasant Hill and I haven't used the mixer yet this year.  I need to make some pizza. I will email them now while I'm thinking of it.
Title: Re: First impressions and review of the Famag IM-5S Spiral mixer
Post by: barryvabeach on February 02, 2022, 08:20:53 PM
After Chau held a gun to my head, and Ilya beat me up a little more, I caved and bought the IM-5S.  I have only used it twice so far, but agree that the dough feels different coming out of the Famag.  But the joke is on them, because I am going to make them spend some money
 ;D
  One thing I missed was the timer on the Ank, so I ordered a wifi outlet for about $9 https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B083C5WR49/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&th=1 (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B083C5WR49/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&th=1)  I am not a huge fan of home automation in general, and it is not the easiest to set up, but once done, the smart outlet just plugs into the outlet, you can switch on the smart outlet with an app on your phone, and then turn on the mixer, then go to countdown on the app and set a timer and it turns off the mixer when the time is done.   One potential hiccup is you have to have 2.4 g router to get it set up.   I have not run it with a full load, but the specs say it will handle up to a 1/2 hp motor, and the IM-5s is 2/5, so it should be fine.   If you have Alexa, the command is Alexa , set a sleep timer for (  whatever you named the smart plug ) for ___ minutes.
Title: Re: First impressions and review of the Famag IM-5S Spiral mixer
Post by: scott r on February 02, 2022, 10:22:42 PM
Love this!    I wish I could walk away from my mixer.  My wife is always complaining.. "why do you have to stand there and just stare at the dough" :)
Title: Re: First impressions and review of the Famag IM-5S Spiral mixer
Post by: ilya_n on February 02, 2022, 10:52:05 PM
After Chau held a gun to my head, and Ilya beat me up a little more, I caved and bought the IM-5S.  I have only used it twice so far, but agree that the dough feels different coming out of the Famag.  But the joke is on them, because I am going to make them spend some money
 ;D
  One thing I missed was the timer on the Ank, so I ordered a wifi outlet for about $9 https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B083C5WR49/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&th=1 (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B083C5WR49/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&th=1)  I am not a huge fan of home automation in general, and it is not the easiest to set up, but once done, the smart outlet just plugs into the outlet, you can switch on the smart outlet with an app on your phone, and then turn on the mixer, then go to countdown on the app and set a timer and it turns off the mixer when the time is done.   One potential hiccup is you have to have 2.4 g router to get it set up.   I have not run it with a full load, but the specs say it will handle up to a 1/2 hp motor, and the IM-5s is 2/5, so it should be fine.   If you have Alexa, the command is Alexa , set a sleep timer for (  whatever you named the smart plug ) for ___ minutes.

Haha enjoy buddy! I have a few smart outlets laying around the house but wouldnít like to use one. Iím usually in the kitchen when the dough is being kneeded and like to watch it/check its temperature with the IR gun.

I made an 85% hydration focaccia yesterday and couldnít believe how well the gluten was developed.

I wouldíve bought it all over again if I was considering it.
Title: Re: First impressions and review of the Famag IM-5S Spiral mixer
Post by: robinfresno on April 04, 2022, 12:46:35 PM
Has anyone had issues with the famag  not working? I bought a brand new Famag IM 10s. Sometimes I press the arrow to turn on, and it just makes this clicking noise. The outlet isnít the issue. Everything is locked in place. Any suggestions? Sounds almost like a short inside the machine, this clicking noise.

I recently got the last fixed head Famag IM-5S that wasn't on backorder and when I plugged it in nothing.  Took the top off and the metal bar that registers when the grate is up or down wasn't fully bending all the way and sometimes would just barely engage and it would click when it went off.  I put a bit more bend in the bar, maybe a lil too much, and now it works..  I'm pretty comfortable with working on machines like this but if you're not you might want to contact them.  Downside is if you have to send it back who knows when a new one will be in stock.  I will probably reach out to them about getting a replacement or something in the future but for a quick fix it worked in my situation.

Glad I found this thread; wealth of knowledge in here  :)
Title: Re: First impressions and review of the Famag IM-5S Spiral mixer
Post by: barryvabeach on April 04, 2022, 05:53:36 PM
I just wrapped a tie around the micro switch so it is always closed,  I didn't see a need for the safety device in my house.
Title: Re: First impressions and review of the Famag IM-5S Spiral mixer
Post by: benny8 on June 28, 2022, 09:03:29 AM
I know this is an older thread, but, I bit the bullet and purchase a Famag IM-5s about a month ago. It was a great purchase and I would do it again. I thought I really loved my dough from the kitchen aid. That was until I started making it with the Famag. I've also  baked a ton of bread with it. Super Investment!
Title: Re: First impressions and review of the Famag IM-5S Spiral mixer
Post by: barryvabeach on June 28, 2022, 08:43:15 PM
Yeah,  Chau has sold a number of us on the Famag, I don't think anyone has been disappointed. 
Title: Re: First impressions and review of the Famag IM-5S Spiral mixer
Post by: pizzajourney on July 14, 2022, 02:52:05 PM
What a great thread, although now >£1000 out of pocket after reading this, couldn't resist the temptation to fork out on a famag spiral mixer!

The things I do to obtain the perfect Neapolitan pizza....  :pizza:
Title: Re: First impressions and review of the Famag IM-5S Spiral mixer
Post by: Jackie Tran on July 14, 2022, 03:08:24 PM
Did a tester baguette dough between the KA and the Famag, and without a doubt the Famag makes a better dough.  The loaves come out bigger and fluffier. 
Title: Re: First impressions and review of the Famag IM-5S Spiral mixer
Post by: Pizza_Not_War on July 14, 2022, 03:24:44 PM
Did a tester baguette dough between the KA and the Famag, and without a doubt the Famag makes a better dough.  The loaves come out bigger and fluffier.
For science sake, was the mix time the same or did you go by other factors to determine it was finished?
Title: Re: First impressions and review of the Famag IM-5S Spiral mixer
Post by: Jackie Tran on July 14, 2022, 03:44:47 PM
For science sake, was the mix time the same or did you go by other factors to determine it was finished?

I mixed both doughs to a similar strength and consistency.   Keeping the mix time the same wouldn't be as comparable of a test since the bowl size and mixing speed and action is different. 
Title: Re: First impressions and review of the Famag IM-5S Spiral mixer
Post by: barryvabeach on July 14, 2022, 08:36:03 PM
As Chau said in one of his earlier posts, the dough just feels different when it comes out of the spiral mixer,  in my case, the Ank.   I wouldn't say night and day different, but it definitely feels different in a good way.  And yes,  I bought mine after reading this thread.
Title: Re: First impressions and review of the Famag IM-5S Spiral mixer
Post by: Jackie Tran on October 08, 2022, 08:54:58 PM
It's been a minute since I've made any high hydration doughs using a mixer.   I made a small batch (558 gm) of a brioche type dough for hamburger buns using the Famag and I couldn't be happier with the results. 
Title: Re: First impressions and review of the Famag IM-5S Spiral mixer
Post by: kori on October 08, 2022, 10:54:06 PM
very nice!
Title: Re: First impressions and review of the Famag IM-5S Spiral mixer
Post by: scott r on October 09, 2022, 01:55:37 AM
my god... that burger and bun are just fantastic.   I really wish I lived near you!
Title: Re: First impressions and review of the Famag IM-5S Spiral mixer
Post by: loch on October 09, 2022, 08:21:23 AM
It's been a minute since I've made any high hydration doughs using a mixer.   I made a small batch (558 gm) of a brioche type dough for hamburger buns using the Famag and I couldn't be happier with the results.

Those look just perfect!

I'm kind of surprised that the Famag works with such a small amount of dough, but your results obviously speak for themselves.

Dave
Title: Re: First impressions and review of the Famag IM-5S Spiral mixer
Post by: HansB on October 09, 2022, 09:42:52 AM
Those look just perfect!

I'm kind of surprised that the Famag works with such a small amount of dough, but your results obviously speak for themselves.

Dave

Mine works well down to 500g.
Title: Re: First impressions and review of the Famag IM-5S Spiral mixer
Post by: loch on October 09, 2022, 10:23:41 AM
Mine works well down to 500g.

I would imagine the offset breaker bar helps with smaller batches. Probably mixes a small batch in pretty short order.

Dave
Title: Re: First impressions and review of the Famag IM-5S Spiral mixer
Post by: Old Red on October 20, 2022, 01:40:16 PM
I had no use for the apron what came with the Famag. My wife took it and measurements to her sister.

Those brioche buns look really good. Made Italian beef today and wanted to bake some using a recipe off the King Arthur site but alas no eggs in the house. I'll try it one of these days.



Title: Re: First impressions and review of the Famag IM-5S Spiral mixer
Post by: scott r on October 20, 2022, 02:14:06 PM
love it!
Title: Re: First impressions and review of the Famag IM-5S Spiral mixer
Post by: Samson on October 31, 2022, 02:44:11 PM
Curious how people store their Famag mixers. I thought I read somewhere that due to the weight most people keep them stationary in their kitchen. Do others move them in and out of their kitchen as needed to mix? Or have another approach?

I don't have the counter space so while I want to get one at some point I'm not sure I have a workable solution yet.
Title: Re: First impressions and review of the Famag IM-5S Spiral mixer
Post by: loch on October 31, 2022, 03:15:43 PM
I don't have a spiral mixer, but I've read that lots of owners keep them on rolling carts.

Dave
Title: Re: First impressions and review of the Famag IM-5S Spiral mixer
Post by: HansB on October 31, 2022, 03:48:20 PM
As Dave wrote, a rolling cart is the way to go if you don't have dedicated counter space to leave it permanently. It's too heavy to move around by hand.

Title: Re: First impressions and review of the Famag IM-5S Spiral mixer
Post by: Samson on October 31, 2022, 03:53:55 PM
Wow that's a nice set-up, thanks for sharing the pictures as well.

I don't really have any room for it in the kitchen or adjacent rooms even on a cart that I can roll around. The only option I really have is to set it up on a cart or table in our basement/boiler room, put the ingredients in the removable bowl while in the kitchen and just do the mixing downstairs. If it's too heavy to move up and down the stairs to the basement I think that's my only option.
Title: Re: First impressions and review of the Famag IM-5S Spiral mixer
Post by: HansB on October 31, 2022, 04:01:21 PM
Wow that's a nice set-up, thanks for sharing the pictures as well.

I don't really have any room for it in the kitchen or adjacent rooms even on a cart that I can roll around. The only option I really have is to set it up on a cart or table in our basement/boiler room, put the ingredients in the removable bowl while in the kitchen and just do the mixing downstairs. If it's too heavy to move up and down the stairs to the basement I think that's my only option.

That'll work. You can then bring a bucket of water down to clean it. Scott R recommended the tilting head version, I'm very happy that I took his advice as it's very easy to clean.
Title: Re: First impressions and review of the Famag IM-5S Spiral mixer
Post by: Samson on October 31, 2022, 04:03:09 PM
That's the Famag IM-5S ? or a larger version?
Title: Re: First impressions and review of the Famag IM-5S Spiral mixer
Post by: HansB on October 31, 2022, 04:44:02 PM
That's the Famag IM-5S ? or a larger version?

I have the 5S.
Title: Re: First impressions and review of the Famag IM-5S Spiral mixer
Post by: foreplease on October 31, 2022, 06:36:46 PM
I have the 5S.
You can really see in that photo how much larger it is than the KA. Nice setup!
Title: Re: First impressions and review of the Famag IM-5S Spiral mixer
Post by: lennyk on November 01, 2022, 05:03:19 AM
tilting head is the way to go unless you go very large as it will have more space in bowl to put your arm to clean it.

I used my 8s to make panettone for the first time properly this weekend and dough was very well developed
in fact I think I can even bump the hydration up a few %, compared to when I use kitchenaid.
Title: Re: First impressions and review of the Famag IM-5S Spiral mixer
Post by: shawkyns on November 03, 2022, 06:05:29 AM
I would second the cart idea.  I would not want to lug this up and down stairs, nor have to deal with the dough in a separate room.  PHG sells a haussler? rolling cart that is the perfect size.  In my small-ish kitchen, we keep it on the cart and shoved into a corner near the dining nook.  it is really not that big in relation to a room or hall, long, but narrow.
Title: Re: First impressions and review of the Famag IM-5S Spiral mixer
Post by: HansB on November 03, 2022, 07:28:45 AM
I have this one, half the price of the Haussler.  https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01A9DQVXW/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1
Title: Re: First impressions and review of the Famag IM-5S Spiral mixer
Post by: scott r on November 03, 2022, 07:37:30 AM
Good point on the weight, it can be deceiving for its size.   At 51, there is no way my back would be happy picking this up out of a low cabinet, or from the floor.   Mine stays on my countertop, and the 5s is just short enough that I can lift the lid while it is under my upper kitchen cabinets if I pull it forward a few inches from the back wall.  The IM8 I originally borrowed from a friend before I bought mine was too tall to fit there.   
Title: Re: First impressions and review of the Famag IM-5S Spiral mixer
Post by: Samson on November 03, 2022, 07:52:10 AM
Scott,

I actually measured my kitchen space again and think I may be able to pull off exactly what you are describing but I'm not sure if I will have the clearance to lift up the lid. My cabinets come out 12 inches horizontally from the back wall, and are 17 inches above the counter top. I read the specs and I think the 5S is like 15.25 inches in height or something close to that so it should fit but probably not lift up. Are your measurements similar? I wasn't sure I'd be able to pull it out so easily but it sounds like it's not a problem for you. May have to break out my high school geometry to see how far I need to move it from the wall to get the clearance I need.

I'm not able to do the cart idea because we don't have space in adjacent rooms so it's probably either this or the basement.

Thanks!
Title: Re: First impressions and review of the Famag IM-5S Spiral mixer
Post by: HansB on November 03, 2022, 08:43:01 AM
These photos may help you?
Title: Re: First impressions and review of the Famag IM-5S Spiral mixer
Post by: Samson on November 03, 2022, 08:45:03 AM
This is awesome thank you so much. I think I really will need to do that geometry calc nowÖ  :o
Title: Re: First impressions and review of the Famag IM-5S Spiral mixer
Post by: scott r on November 03, 2022, 10:28:37 AM
I will measure my cabinet hight and countertop depth when im home tonight.  I am unable to lift the head all the way up, but it works fine only lifting it slightly.  Im still able to get the bowl on and off without issue. 
Title: Re: First impressions and review of the Famag IM-5S Spiral mixer
Post by: barryvabeach on November 03, 2022, 08:18:00 PM
Scott, you can always cut a sheet of 3/4 plywood the length of the Famag, and rest the Famag - that is what I did, so that when I need to move it out a few inches to get more room to tilt  the head, i move the board forward.  Most of the weight is at the rear, moving it forward 6 inches has no risk of falling, then I push it back.   Note that for me, it is that mine sits with the back up against a wall, and as I tilt the head fully up, it hits the rear wall, unless I bring it forward a bit.  Even though it is pretty heavy, I move the board and the whole assembly is easy to move.
Title: Re: First impressions and review of the Famag IM-5S Spiral mixer
Post by: scott r on November 03, 2022, 08:24:42 PM
Great idea I hadn't thought of Barry, thank you!   

I have 17.5 inches from countertop to bottom of cabinets.   My cabinets are 12 inches deep.  with 23 inch deep countertops (or more) you will have no problem getting the bowl on and off.  Of course with this idea from Barry you can go lower/more shallow and it will work.
Title: Re: First impressions and review of the Famag IM-5S Spiral mixer
Post by: Samson on November 03, 2022, 08:30:36 PM
Thanks. That must be a standard size mine has the same measurements.

Iím definitely going to go for the purchase now, may just wait till black friday and see if I get lucky with any type of discount. Thanks!