Pizza Making Forum

Pizza Making => Chicago Style => Topic started by: vcb on January 20, 2014, 04:50:18 PM

Title: Sauce Recipes for Chicago Thin Crust
Post by: vcb on January 20, 2014, 04:50:18 PM
I did a search and didn't see a thread for this, so I'm starting a new one.

Do you have a "go-to" sauce recipe for Chicago Thin Crust Pizza?

PLEASE POST IT IN THIS THREAD.


On a similar note, I watched Diners Drive-Ins and Dives on Food Network the other night and they were showing the Pizza episode.
They had closeups of the sauce at Vito & Nick's in all it's HD glory, and I noticed that there seemed to be no visible spices in it.
Could they be just using Puree or Paste plus water to thin it out? Maybe adding sugar if it's not sweet enough?


Annnnnnnyway...
Here's the sauce that I use for thin crust:
Title: Re: Sauce Recipes for Chicago Thin Crust
Post by: wahoo88 on January 20, 2014, 05:10:19 PM
Wow, there has been discussion about a thread like this over here (http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,29736.20.html (http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,29736.20.html)) in the past 12 hours or so.  Is this really a coincidence? :-D
Title: Re: Sauce Recipes for Chicago Thin Crust
Post by: vcb on January 20, 2014, 05:26:03 PM
no coincidence whatsoever.  :chef:

I constantly see people complain that we spend so much time on the the dough, and rarely post sauce recipes, so it makes sense to have a place to post them.  ^^^
Title: Re: Sauce Recipes for Chicago Thin Crust
Post by: CDNpielover on January 20, 2014, 08:36:28 PM
The famous Red's Savoy Inn sauce (at least according to the University of Minnesota website)
http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=17732.0 (http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=17732.0)

Pizza Sauce from Red's Savoy Pizza chefs

Ingredients:

2 tablespoons olive oil
1 tablespoon butter
1/2 cup onion, chopped
1 garlic clove, minced
Three 28 oz. cans of whole peeled tomatoes or 15-18 stewed tomatoes
2 tablespoons grated parmesan cheese
1 tablespoon fresh basil
1 tablespoon fresh oregano
1/2 teaspoon salt
1/2 teaspoon sugar
1/4 teaspoon black pepper
1 small bay leaf
1 teaspoon fennel seed

Directions:

In a large skillet, melt butter with the oil. Add the onion, celery and garlic and saute until soft and transparent.  Add tomatoes and stir until smooth.  Add remaining ingredients and bring to a slow simmer.  Simmer for 30-60 minutes.  Remove bay leave and spread the sauce on your prepared pizza dough.
Title: Re: Sauce Recipes for Chicago Thin Crust
Post by: dmckean44 on January 20, 2014, 08:57:19 PM
Here it is converted to 1 28 oz can of tomatoes since that's what most people will probably do.

2 tsp olive oil
1 tsp butter
8 tbsp chopped onion
1/3rd clove minced garlic
2 tsp grated parmesan cheese
1 tsp fresh basil
1 tsp fresh oregano
1/3 tsp salt
1/3 tsp sugar
dash of black pepper
half a small bay leaf
1/3 teaspoon fennel seed
1 28oz can whole peeled tomatoes
Title: Re: Sauce Recipes for Chicago Thin Crust
Post by: Aimless Ryan on January 21, 2014, 10:33:50 AM
Wow, there has been discussion about a thread like this over here (http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,29736.20.html (http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,29736.20.html)) in the past 12 hours or so.  Is this really a coincidence? :-D
Most genuinely good pizzas don't require an elaborate sauce. Good pizzas use a quality tomato product with minimal spices or flavorings added. Usually when a pizzeria's sauce has a lot of added flavorings, it's mostly in an effort to mask a crappy tomato product. Still, having said that, I pretty much always take the time to express my sauce recipe for any pizza I document here.

I just don't think it's very important in most cases, and my sauce recipes should be interpreted as a general guideline for recreating the pizza as I made it, not necessarily how the joint I may be trying to clone makes it. For example, my Tommy's sauce. Is it close to actual Tommy's sauce? I have no idea because the flavor of Tommy's pizza mostly comes from the crust (and possibly other components of the pizza). Besides, Tommy's sauce is crap. But looking at the big picture: My Tommy's pizzas taste the same regardless of whether I really try to get the sauce right.

On the other hand, I think Donatos sauce helps define the pizza. And their sauce is nothing more than tomato paste and water, with a little bit of salt, basil, and probably sugar (which I think is a recent change). And it tastes (or seems to taste) different on the pizza than it tastes when you eat a spoonful of it uncooked. (And I don't mean to imply that Donatos makes a great pizza just because they use a simple sauce, or even that they make a great pizza at all.)
Title: Re: Sauce Recipes for Chicago Thin Crust
Post by: vcb on January 21, 2014, 10:54:14 AM
Garvey's "Pizza Factory" sauce recipe uses a Contadina tomato paste and water base.
http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,17662.msg171274.html#msg171274 (http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,17662.msg171274.html#msg171274)

It's probably more cost effective for pizza restaurants to use watered down paste than to pay more $ for puree.

KEEP POSTING RECIPES AND LINKS TO RECIPES!  :chef:

You're listening to Chicago Sauce Talk on PZZA radio, PIZZATOWN, USA!
Stay tuned for more sauce!

 :drool:
Title: Re: Sauce Recipes for Chicago Thin Crust
Post by: Garvey on January 21, 2014, 12:01:52 PM
Most genuinely good pizzas don't require an elaborate sauce. Good pizzas use a quality tomato product with minimal spices or flavorings added.

I disagree.  Having grown up in the Chicago area, where Chicago thin is king, I found that the sauce varies greatly from place to place, becoming part of the distinct flavor signature.  An herbal sauce is very much part and parcel of this style of pizza. And the Southside has a few sweet sauces, like Aurelio's--but each one is totally different.  It is a point of pride for a family owned pizza restaurant to have developed their own red sauce, crust, housemade sausage, etc. 

Maybe outside of the Chicagoland area, a blander, forgettable sauce is the norm, but this is the Chicago Style board.  If you don't like sauce, no one held a gun to your head: you are free to skip this forum topic. 
Title: Re: Sauce Recipes for Chicago Thin Crust
Post by: dmckean44 on January 21, 2014, 12:11:35 PM
It's probably more cost effective for pizza restaurants to use watered down paste than to pay more $ for puree.

The history of tomato paste in Italy goes back hundreds of years and was originally a way to preserve tomatoes for use through the winter months. Tomato paste isn't necessarily an inferior product to puree. It's a concentrated product of tomato solids and you end up with way more of the top notes of the tomatoes. Since it's a concentrated product, adding water is simply re-hydrating.
Title: Re: Sauce Recipes for Chicago Thin Crust
Post by: Aimless Ryan on January 21, 2014, 12:17:36 PM
It's probably more cost effective for pizza restaurants to use watered down paste than to pay more $ for puree.

Oh, there's no doubt about that. Not only with product costs, but also with shipping (or delivery) costs. One case of heavily concentrated tomato product makes about the equivalent quantity of sauce as two or three cases of ready-to-use tomato product, but it only requires paying for one case (in both food cost and shipping cost).

For some reason, even though Donatos uses diluted paste for sauce, it's shipped to the stores ready-to-use in boxed bags. (This is probably because they need special bags to function with their unique dispensing system.) Pizza Hut (in the early 90s, and probably today) used very heavily concentrated tomato product, to which they added water and a spice packet in-store. I know how a couple other places do it, and it seems to be more of a random decision, rather than a decision based on efficiency (and thus price) or quality. Some of these methods (like Donatos) puzzle me, because it seems like they're just throwing away money.
Title: Re: Sauce Recipes for Chicago Thin Crust
Post by: Aimless Ryan on January 21, 2014, 12:22:46 PM
Since it's a concentrated product, adding water is simply re-hydrating.

That's not true. When you cook a tomato (which is part of the process of concentrating tomatoes), you change the flavor considerably. Ever notice how tomatoes are red but paste is maroon? That's because they're not the same thing, and never will be again.
Title: Re: Sauce Recipes for Chicago Thin Crust
Post by: dmckean44 on January 21, 2014, 12:25:56 PM
My point was, it's not meant to be consumed at full strength.
Title: Re: Sauce Recipes for Chicago Thin Crust
Post by: vcb on January 21, 2014, 12:26:53 PM
That's not true. When you cook a tomato (which is part of the process of concentrating tomatoes), you change the flavor considerably. Ever notice how tomatoes are red but paste is maroon? That's because they're not the same thing, and never will be again.

Yeah. Paste is sweeter than puree, which is what you want in a Chicago thin crust sauce.
It's probably why I have to add sugar to my puree.
 :chef:
Title: Re: Sauce Recipes for Chicago Thin Crust
Post by: dogboy on January 21, 2014, 12:47:41 PM
I am very much into using a strawberry or grape jelly in my mixture of tomatos. Wasn't a big fan of granulated sugar but maybe I need to dissolve the sugar first and try it.
Title: Re: Sauce Recipes for Chicago Thin Crust
Post by: pythonic on January 21, 2014, 06:32:49 PM
I disagree.  Having grown up in the Chicago area, where Chicago thin is king, I found that the sauce varies greatly from place to place, becoming part of the distinct flavor signature.  An herbal sauce is very much part and parcel of this style of pizza. And the Southside has a few sweet sauces, like Aurelio's--but each one is totally different.  It is a point of pride for a family owned pizza restaurant to have developed their own red sauce, crust, housemade sausage, etc. 

Maybe outside of the Chicagoland area, a blander, forgettable sauce is the norm, but this is the Chicago Style board.  If you don't like sauce, no one held a gun to your head: you are free to skip this forum topic.

I disagree as well.  It's these sauces that set the pizza places apart.  NY style sauce however may be the exception.
Title: Re: Sauce Recipes for Chicago Thin Crust
Post by: wahoo88 on January 21, 2014, 09:20:10 PM
Maybe outside of the Chicagoland area, a blander, forgettable sauce is the norm, but this is the Chicago Style board.  If you don't like sauce, no one held a gun to your head: you are free to skip this forum topic. 

No need to insult other styles of pizza Garvey.  Less ingredients does not equate to a "blander, forgettable sauce". Starting from paste, yes, but not for all tomato products.  I would argue that the Chicago styles of pizza probably evolved from a lack of fresh, quality ingredients.  The addition of herbs and spices to the Chicago sauce was most likely to add some much needed interest to an otherwise boring paste-based sauce.  This is not to say that Chicago sauce is inferior, but I would find it hard to believe that anyone prefers straight tomato paste to good san marzanos out of the can.  Neapolitan pizza (and some NY) is all about preserving the flavors in the ingredients, while Chicago pizza is more about taking less exotic (read:worse) ingredients and making the final product greater than the sum of its parts.  There is beauty to be found in both philosophies.
Title: Re: Sauce Recipes for Chicago Thin Crust
Post by: vcb on January 21, 2014, 09:25:32 PM
Hi.  :)
THIS THREAD IS FOR SAUCE RECIPES FOR CHICAGO THIN CRUST PIZZA.
If you don't have a recipe (or link to a recipe),
or don't have anything constructive to add regarding
the making of sauce for use specifically for Chicago Thin Crust Pizza,
this may not be the thread for you.

 :chef:

We now return to the sauce currently in progress...

KEEP POSTING THE SAUCE RECIPES PEOPLE!
 :drool:
Title: Re: Sauce Recipes for Chicago Thin Crust
Post by: wahoo88 on January 21, 2014, 09:38:23 PM
Hi.  :)
THIS THREAD IS FOR SAUCE RECIPES FOR CHICAGO THIN CRUST PIZZA.
If you don't have a recipe (or link to a recipe),
or don't have anything constructive to add regarding
the making of sauce for use specifically for Chicago Thin Crust Pizza,
this may not be the thread for you.

 :chef:

We now return to the sauce currently in progress...



KEEP POSTING THE SAUCE RECIPES PEOPLE!
 :drool:

http://www.foodnetwork.com/recipes/cat-cora/easy-pizza-sauce-recipe/index.html (http://www.foodnetwork.com/recipes/cat-cora/easy-pizza-sauce-recipe/index.html)

Now that I've got my obligatory recipe out of the way...

What fun is a forum that only lists recipes?  Isn't discussion why we all come here?

Title: Re: Sauce Recipes for Chicago Thin Crust
Post by: nick57 on January 21, 2014, 09:53:25 PM
No sauce is right or wrong. Most of the time, it is what you grew up eating and loving. What's fun, is to try the different recipes and choosing the ones you like. Then with all the info, you can make your own great pizza sauce and pie.
Title: Re: Sauce Recipes for Chicago Thin Crust
Post by: vcb on January 21, 2014, 09:56:57 PM
I created this thread so we could share recipes and talk about Chicago Thin Crust sauce.
I have no problem with discussion in this thread, but I'd like to keep us on topic.

When people outright dismiss a major component of what we are trying to achieve,
it's not really helpful to those of us trying to reproduce a specific flavor or taste.

If you are one of the people who doesn't think a good sauce recipe is a vital component to your Chicago thin crust pizza,
Feel free to start your own thread about how each city berates the other city's pizza sauce because of "reasons".  :P

 >:D  For the record, I believe it's perfectly fine for us to declare Chicago pizza styles superior to other pizza styles inside the Chicago Style Forum. >:D

This micro-rant was free. The next one will cost you.
Title: Re: Sauce Recipes for Chicago Thin Crust
Post by: Aimless Ryan on January 22, 2014, 12:41:18 PM
>:D  For the record, I believe it's perfectly fine for us to declare Chicago pizza styles superior to other pizza styles inside the Chicago Style Forum. >:D

OK, then I guess it's also perfectly fine for us to declare that there is no such thing as "Chicago thin crust" except in the minds of people who grew up in or near Chicago. (And here's a devil emoticon so no one will be sure if I'm arguing or joking: >:D  )
Title: Re: Sauce Recipes for Chicago Thin Crust
Post by: vcb on January 22, 2014, 12:45:15 PM
So are you going to post a sauce recipe or just keep trolling this thread?

At this point, both would be either helpful or humorous.
Title: Re: Sauce Recipes for Chicago Thin Crust
Post by: Garvey on January 22, 2014, 01:01:42 PM
I'm with Ed.  Re-read my last post, Ryan.  That was directly to you, as nicely as it could be stated.  Enough threadcrapping.  No one forced you to respond to this topic.  If you have nothing but bile to add, then please take it elsewhere.  Life is too short to endure such constant venom.  I had grown to appreciate your newer, more helpful forum persona.  Bring that guy back.

Title: Re: Sauce Recipes for Chicago Thin Crust
Post by: Garvey on January 22, 2014, 01:03:08 PM
Aurelio's Sauce
28 oz Classico purée (or peeled ground if not available)
1/2 Tbs salt
1/2 tsp pepper
1 Tbs sugar
1/2 tsp oregano
1/2 tsp basil
Title: Re: Sauce Recipes for Chicago Thin Crust
Post by: pizza is love on January 22, 2014, 01:03:30 PM
So are you going to post a sauce recipe or just keep trolling this thread?

At this point, both would be either helpful or humorous.

Just block Clueless, I already have.
Title: Re: Sauce Recipes for Chicago Thin Crust
Post by: vcb on January 22, 2014, 01:09:42 PM
Nah. That's no fun.  ;D
Title: Re: Sauce Recipes for Chicago Thin Crust
Post by: Aimless Ryan on January 22, 2014, 01:13:10 PM
I got blasted and flamed for sharing information that was intended to be helpful. If you guys don't want me here, fine.
Title: Re: Sauce Recipes for Chicago Thin Crust
Post by: Garvey on January 22, 2014, 01:15:27 PM
Cal City Sauce*
28 oz Cento crushed tomatoes, drained for 5 minutes
1 1/2 tsp salt
1/2 pepper
1 tsp oregano
1 tsp basil
1 1/2 tsp sugar
1/2 tsp Italian seasoning
1/8 tsp garlic powder
1/4 tsp onion powder


*Calumet City, IL, was the home of a particular sub-genre of Chicago thin.  John's was the most famous purveyor and has been much imitated by the likes of Langels and various other joints.  The signature characteristics of this style are (1) the somewhat doughier crust with "bones" (small by NY standard but slightly larger than the nearly nonexistent bones of typical Chicago thin) and (2) crumbled sausage instead of chunk.  As such, the sauce is usually brighter than other Chicago thin--both in a color sense and a culinary sense--which certainly helps balance the dough and sausage differences.  This sauce approximates the style.
Title: Re: Sauce Recipes for Chicago Thin Crust
Post by: Garvey on January 22, 2014, 01:18:24 PM
I got blasted and flamed for sharing information that was intended to be helpful. If you guys don't want me here, fine.

Dude, reread your posts.  "There's no such thing as Chicago thin" and "Most genuinely good pizzas don't require an elaborate sauce....Usually when a pizzeria's sauce has a lot of added flavorings, it's mostly in an effort to mask a crappy tomato product" are prime examples of threadcrapping.

You were hardly blasted or flamed, by me or anyone else.   
Title: Re: Sauce Recipes for Chicago Thin Crust
Post by: vcb on January 22, 2014, 01:19:02 PM
... and still no sauce recipe from him.

Sometimes, you just have to shake your head.  ::)


Thanks for posting the sauce recipes, Garvey!  :D
Title: Re: Sauce Recipes for Chicago Thin Crust
Post by: Garvey on January 22, 2014, 01:29:52 PM
No need to insult other styles of pizza Garvey.  Less ingredients does not equate to a "blander, forgettable sauce".

No insults, Wahoo.  I was only replying to Ryan's assertion that Tommy's sauce was bad.  And it's not a style thing: most sauce--from sea to shining sea--is demonstrably bad. 

Quote
Starting from paste, yes, but not for all tomato products.  I would argue that the Chicago styles of pizza probably evolved from a lack of fresh, quality ingredients.  The addition of herbs and spices to the Chicago sauce was most likely to add some much needed interest to an otherwise boring paste-based sauce.  This is not to say that Chicago sauce is inferior, but I would find it hard to believe that anyone prefers straight tomato paste to good san marzanos out of the can.  Neapolitan pizza (and some NY) is all about preserving the flavors in the ingredients, while Chicago pizza is more about taking less exotic (read:worse) ingredients and making the final product greater than the sum of its parts.  There is beauty to be found in both philosophies.

I agree with some of this but not all.  Paste has a caramelized flavor that is desirable in many applications.  It is not an inferior product but a different one.  San Marzanos, out of the can, will work great for certain dishes, certain pizzas, etc., and for some things, they wouldn't work at all.  Same goes for paste.   

As for the food historicism aspects of all this, I dunno.  Interesting theory, but you're essentially asserting, "Chicago pizza is an alchemy of turning crap into gold."  I guess we can't all be as awesome as Naples or NY.   :'(
Title: Re: Sauce Recipes for Chicago Thin Crust
Post by: wahoo88 on January 22, 2014, 03:05:18 PM
As for the food historicism aspects of all this, I dunno.  Interesting theory, but you're essentially asserting, "Chicago pizza is an alchemy of turning crap into gold."  I guess we can't all be as awesome as Naples or NY.   :'(

If that's your opinion, fine.  I, on the other hand, think that "turning crap into gold" is interesting and in many respects more difficult than just starting with "gold".  My response was not favoring one variety over the other, though. 


I agree with some of this but not all.  Paste has a caramelized flavor that is desirable in many applications.  It is not an inferior product but a different one.  San Marzanos, out of the can, will work great for certain dishes, certain pizzas, etc., and for some things, they wouldn't work at all.  Same goes for paste.   

Agreed, but my main point was that san marzanos have better captured the flavor of a fresh ripe tomato better than paste does.  Paste is favorable in many situations, but it is hard to argue that tomato paste has better captured the essence of a fresh tomato; it is inferior at this specific task. 
Title: Re: Sauce Recipes for Chicago Thin Crust
Post by: Chicago Bob on January 22, 2014, 04:11:12 PM
Well, here's another fine thread that has gone awry....I think you are all making some good points and if pride could be set aside; look back and see the positive in each post, and maybe this endeavor of Ed's can be salvaged. Otherwise, no one is going to have a resource available that they first have to weed through the chingao for the good stuff. At least not at this rate.....

Bob
Title: Re: Sauce Recipes for Chicago Thin Crust
Post by: vcb on January 22, 2014, 04:41:43 PM

Let's just say that the style of sauce that you typically find in a Chicago style thin crust pizza
predominantly leans toward the canned, and/or concentrated variety of tomato, and not fresh. 

A puree, or in most cases, paste plus water, is what I think will get us the flavor base we're shooting for.

** I have typically experienced that people in Chicagoland just call it "thin crust",
but I call it "Chicago style thin crust" to differentiate it from other thin crust
from other cities, which may be similar, or not similar to the style.
Arguments on whether the style exists have already taken place in other threads.
WE'RE TALKIN' CHICAGO THIN CRUST SAUCE HERE! Let's keep it civil and on topic, OK? OK. S'alright? S'alright. :-) **

Title: Re: Sauce Recipes for Chicago Thin Crust
Post by: Musky on January 22, 2014, 10:01:15 PM
I like to make Wisconsin Thin Crust pizza sauce using a little of this, a little of that, and sometimes even a little whatnot.  Sometimes I use paste, sometimes puree, sometimes a crushed product like 6 in 1.  I rarely am looking to have the sauce taste exactly the same way every time.  And I always go light on the sauce.  Most pizzas have way too much sauce.

Of course, that's for Wisconsin Thin Crust pizza.  It's probably a lot different than Chicago Thin Crust.

Kevin

Title: Re: Sauce Recipes for Chicago Thin Crust
Post by: Garvey on January 22, 2014, 10:03:27 PM
A puree, or in most cases, paste plus water, is what I think will get us the flavor base we're shooting for.

Interestingly enough, some brands of purée list only two ingredients on the can: tomato paste and water.  The grocery store brand nearby is one such, and IIRC, there are a few others.  Classico purée, OTOH, is the real deal.

And I always go light on the sauce.  Most pizzas have way too much sauce.

Is that a personal preference or a Wisconsin thing?  I often find the opposite--not nearly enough sauce.  Most places, I need to ask for a little extra sauce when ordering.  That's a personal preference, I think, but a few of my friends have expressed the same thing (fellow Chicagoland ex-pats) where they live.  Maybe Chicago goes a little heavier than typical on the sauce, and we grew up used to that.  (That's one of the things I love about frozen HRI: it is the sauciest pie in the frozen section, by far.)

Well, here's another fine thread that has gone awry....I think you are all making some good points and if pride could be set aside; look back and see the positive in each post, and maybe this endeavor of Ed's can be salvaged.

I may have been overly long winded in my post about paste, but I stand by it.  If I can't be a pizza chauvinist HERE, on the Chicago forum, then where can I be?  :D  The Neo/NY fans are always looking down on us Second City folks...second class, I tell ya!   ;)

(BTW,your irony meter broken, Bob?)

Title: Re: Sauce Recipes for Chicago Thin Crust
Post by: Chicago Bob on January 22, 2014, 10:11:01 PM
I like to make Wisconsin Thin Crust pizza sauce using a little of this, a little of that, and sometimes even a little whatnot.  Sometimes I use paste, sometimes puree, sometimes a crushed product like 6 in 1.  I rarely am looking to have the sauce taste exactly the same way every time.  And I always go light on the sauce.  Most pizzas have way too much sauce.

Of course, that's for Wisconsin Thin Crust pizza.  It's probably a lot different than Chicago Thin Crust.

Kevin
You're absolutely right Kevin. Us folks in Chicago measure everything so get the hell out with that and don't come back till you understand the rules.  ;D

Bob
Title: Re: Sauce Recipes for Chicago Thin Crust
Post by: dmckean44 on January 22, 2014, 10:30:54 PM
Is that a personal preference or a Wisconsin thing?  I often find the opposite--not nearly enough sauce.  Most places, I need to ask for a little extra sauce when ordering.  That's a personal preference, I think, but a few of my friends have expressed the same thing (fellow Chicagoland ex-pats) where they live.  Maybe Chicago goes a little heavier than typical on the sauce, and we grew up used to that.  (That's one of the things I love about frozen HRI: it is the sauciest pie in the frozen section, by far.)

It's a Chicago thing, I grew up downstate in Peoria but I lived briefly in Chicagoland for a while about 15 years ago. The pies were similar but in general a Chicago thin crust is going to be more heavily sauced than say Monical's.
Title: Re: Sauce Recipes for Chicago Thin Crust
Post by: Musky on January 22, 2014, 10:36:58 PM
You're absolutely right Kevin. Us folks in Chicago measure everything so get the hell out with that and don't come back till you understand the rules.  ;D

Bob

I've had it with you snobs and your carefully measured sauces, your sauce on top casseroles,  and your perennially mediocre professional football team.  I might go to your Chit Chat thread and make thinly veiled insults.

I really do think most pizzas have way too much sauce.  We have some fantastic thin crust here in the Milwaukee area, and I almost always go light on the sauce.  Personal preference I guess.  Probably why I get by with the little of this, a little of that, and maybe some whatnot style of sauce making.  I do the same thing when I make pasta sauce.

And get the hell out of the way when I make meatballs, because the air gets filled with spices when I start tossing them in the meat.

Kevin

Title: Re: Sauce Recipes for Chicago Thin Crust
Post by: Chicago Bob on January 22, 2014, 10:41:48 PM


(BTW,your irony meter broken, Bob?)
Well, I don't think so Garvey....my G/F said all my shirts came out fine on Sunday(that's her chore day).  ;D

Bob
Title: Re: Sauce Recipes for Chicago Thin Crust
Post by: vcb on January 22, 2014, 10:48:02 PM
*we now return to the sauce currently in progress...*

VIDEO: Vito & Nicks from Chicago's Best:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=84Mchxfd6LE (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=84Mchxfd6LE)

They put the sauce on about 1 and 1/2 minutes in.
You can see they put down a good amount and go all the way to the edge.
I'm guessing a 6oz, but could possibly an 8oz ladle.

Title: Re: Sauce Recipes for Chicago Thin Crust
Post by: Jackitup on January 22, 2014, 10:56:27 PM
Hopefully this will simmer down and be a helpful thread. We should all be objective and appreciate what can be gotten from this thread like the many others on this forum. I like pretty much most styles of pizza and like them on their own merits and try to keep the purist attitude out of it. Purism I feel should be kept case specific, NP should meet certain criteria, NY style should meet it's own etc, but not any rule or criteria should or can control all otherwise it would all be the same pizza!! I like beans in chili too :-D Good without them also!
As I've said before, I love Garvey's sauce but choose to thicken with tomato juice (Sacramento) and with his seasoning made in bulk I can ramp up or down the strength of the sauce. I also like fennel in a sauce so in the bulk mix I add a bit more of it and also added the Aleppo flakes, a BIG plus. A buddy of mine LOVES a sweeter sauce so when he's over I add some honey to taste to meet his likes. I'll also use the bulk seasoning as a shake on just before putting in the oven. Also when you make the spice in bulk one can tailor to the own tastes. Regardless of paste, sauce, drained whole tomatoes and crushed etc, Garvey's pizza seasoning in bulk is one of the better contributions to this forum and a PERFECT starter base for adding to your pizza arsenal and tweak to your needs 
http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,17662.msg284695.html#msg284695 (http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,17662.msg284695.html#msg284695)

jon
Title: Re: Sauce Recipes for Chicago Thin Crust
Post by: Chicago Bob on January 22, 2014, 11:05:13 PM
And we now have yet another recipe.

Bob
Title: Re: Sauce Recipes for Chicago Thin Crust
Post by: mrmojo1 on January 25, 2014, 07:40:05 AM
no!  this is good! look! feel! hear! you can smell  the passion!!  no one said this would be easy.  lay it down!!!   sharp corners with time become smooth curves.  ok....ive had a few beers.........dang!
Title: Re: Sauce Recipes for Chicago Thin Crust
Post by: Old Red on January 25, 2014, 08:39:09 AM
Garvey, In Reply #27 Cal City Sauce you write that a characteristic is, " . . (2) crumbled sausage instead of chunk." Do you mean it's precooked? Can't imagine crumbling the raw sausage I get.

Thanks, Red
Title: Re: Sauce Recipes for Chicago Thin Crust
Post by: Garvey on January 25, 2014, 10:35:46 AM
Red:

I may post this as a separate thread, to make it easier for people to find later, but here is the explanation.  Where I grew up, there were certain joints that did the crumbled sausage.  Still do.  It gives great coverage, and its saltiness is a counterbalance to the sweet sauce.

It had long stumped me how these places got the sausage to a format that would go on a pizza.  Like you said, you can't exactly "crumble" raw sausage.  It would just be a sticky mess.  And I've never seen a rangetop in one of these pizza joints, where they could be frying up the sausage beforehand.  I've tried that method, and it is terrible.  There is too much flavor loss, since frying renders out too much fat.  Ultimately, I don't know how we stumbled upon this method.  Someone might have tipped me off over at slice/seriouseats (Kenji or another commenter?), or my buddies and I just talked it through and figured it out.  It had to be accomplished by oven alone.  So the method is to make a thick, hamburger-like patty and bake it in the hot pizza oven (e.g., in a cutter pan or whatnot) for 5-7 minutes, which is just enough to get it to set but still raw enough that you're not losing too much flavor before going onto the pizza.

Crumbled Pizza Sausage


Cheers,
Garvey
Title: Re: Sauce Recipes for Chicago Thin Crust
Post by: Old Red on January 25, 2014, 04:21:17 PM
Thank you Sir. I will give it a try.
Title: Re: Sauce Recipes for Chicago Thin Crust
Post by: PizzaGarage on January 28, 2014, 11:32:27 PM
Here is a classic Stanislaus puree pizza sauce which is not overpowering nor too sweet.  Requires 24 hour fridge prior to use, lasts for 3 days.

#10 can Stanislaus heavy puree
7 cups cold water
1/8 cup table salt ( non iodized)
1/8 cup garlic powder ( not granulated)
1/12 cup course black pepper
1/4 cup domestic romano fine grate
1/8 cup white sugar
1/4 cup majoram



Add herbs to water and let hydrate for 10 minutes then add to sauce.

I agree with some comments about the Chicago thin sauce.  Some are very plain which rely more on toppings and crust others are signature ( the great places ) and others are overpowering and full of oregano.

Quantity

10" 3 oz
12" 4 oz
14" 6 oz
16" 8 oz

1/2 inch sauce less border

 
Title: Re: Sauce Recipes for Chicago Thin Crust
Post by: Chicago Bob on January 28, 2014, 11:38:02 PM
Here is a classic Stanislaus puree pizza sauce which is not overpowering nor too sweet.  Requires 24 hour fridge prior to use, lasts for 3 days.

#10 can Stanislaus heavy puree
7 cups cold water
1/8 cup table salt ( non iodized)
1/8 cup garlic powder ( not granulated)
1/12 cup course black pepper
1/4 cup domestic romano fine grate
1/8 cup white sugar
1/4 cup majoram



Add herbs to water and let hydrate for 10 minutes then add to sauce.

I agree with some comments about the Chicago thin sauce.  Some are very plain which rely more on toppings and crust others are signature ( the great places ) and others are overpowering and full of oregano.

Quantity

10" 3 oz
12" 4 oz
14" 6 oz
16" 8 oz

1/2 inch sauce less border
Is that from their web site PG?

Bob
Title: Re: Sauce Recipes for Chicago Thin Crust
Post by: Jackitup on January 28, 2014, 11:45:09 PM
I would give that 5-7 days for fridge life

jon
Title: Re: Sauce Recipes for Chicago Thin Crust
Post by: PizzaGarage on January 28, 2014, 11:51:26 PM
Who's  website?

No, it's one of my recipes for the Chicago Tavern pizza....
Title: Re: Sauce Recipes for Chicago Thin Crust
Post by: Jackitup on January 29, 2014, 12:02:19 AM
Here is a classic Stanislaus puree pizza sauce which is not overpowering nor too sweet.  Requires 24 hour fridge prior to use, lasts for 3 days.

#10 can Stanislaus heavy puree
7 cups cold water
1/8 cup table salt ( non iodized)
1/8 cup garlic powder ( not granulated)
1/12 cup course black pepper
1/4 cup domestic romano fine grate
1/8 cup white sugar
1/4 cup majoram



Add herbs to water and let hydrate for 10 minutes then add to sauce.

I agree with some comments about the Chicago thin sauce.  Some are very plain which rely more on toppings and crust others are signature ( the great places ) and others are overpowering and full of oregano.

Quantity

10" 3 oz
12" 4 oz
14" 6 oz
16" 8 oz

1/2 inch sauce less border

I assume you meant 1/2 cup vs 1/12th cup. I got fat fingers too :-D
Title: Re: Sauce Recipes for Chicago Thin Crust
Post by: PizzaGarage on January 29, 2014, 12:05:17 AM
1/12 is correct.  I scaled down this recipe, so 1/3 of 1/4 cup....approx 1 tbl spoon.
Title: Re: Sauce Recipes for Chicago Thin Crust
Post by: Jackitup on January 29, 2014, 12:33:59 AM
1/12 is correct.  I scaled down this recipe, so 1/3 of 1/4 cup....approx 1 tbl spoon.

I stand corrected, and I was figuring about a T for a 12th cup but thanks for clarifying! I will try this on for size, I like Chicago style sauces or well seasoned sauces as one prefers.

jon
Title: Re: Sauce Recipes for Chicago Thin Crust
Post by: Garvey on January 29, 2014, 08:32:11 AM
Sorry to get all math pedantic, but that would be 1 Tbs + 1 tsp (or 4 Tsp).
Title: Re: Sauce Recipes for Chicago Thin Crust
Post by: Chicago Bob on January 29, 2014, 09:47:01 AM
Who's  website?

No, it's one of my recipes for the Chicago Tavern pizza....
Here is Stanislaus recipe site (http://www.stanislaus.com/family-recipes/recipe-search-result?page=1).
Title: Re: Sauce Recipes for Chicago Thin Crust
Post by: Chicago Bob on January 29, 2014, 10:05:20 AM
I like the recipes at the Escalon website (http://www.escalon.net/recipes/Pizza_Sauces/classic-pizza-sauce-1).
Title: Re: Sauce Recipes for Chicago Thin Crust
Post by: Garvey on January 29, 2014, 02:43:14 PM
I like the recipes at the Escalon website (http://www.escalon.net/recipes/Pizza_Sauces/classic-pizza-sauce-1).

Hey, buddy, this thread is for Chicago Thin.  None of that weak NY watercolor around these parts!   ;D
Title: Re: Sauce Recipes for Chicago Thin Crust
Post by: dmckean44 on January 29, 2014, 03:29:09 PM
I like the recipes at the Escalon website (http://www.escalon.net/recipes/Pizza_Sauces/classic-pizza-sauce-1).

Escalon's site proves that sauce recipes on their own are just as annoying as dough recipes without any mention of sauce. I want to know what style of pizza uses a sauce with celery seed and beef soup base:

http://www.escalon.net/recipes/Pizza_Sauces/rich-n-hearty-pizza-sauce (http://www.escalon.net/recipes/Pizza_Sauces/rich-n-hearty-pizza-sauce)
Title: Re: Sauce Recipes for Chicago Thin Crust
Post by: Chicago Bob on January 29, 2014, 03:31:30 PM
Hey, buddy, this thread is for Chicago Thin.  None of that weak NY watercolor around these parts!   ;D
This is on that site too. Is this thick enough?  ;D

 Chicago-Style Salsicce Pizza Sauce
Ingredients:

    2 cups Olive Oil
    2.5 quarts Fresh 1/4" Diced Onions
    1 cup Fresh Minced Garlic
    (6) #10 cans 6 IN 1 Ground Tomatoes
    (2) #10 cans Bella Rossa Tomato Puree
    1/4 cup Chopped Fresh Basil
    2 tbsp. Dried Oregano
    2 tbsp. Ground Black Pepper
    1 1/2 tsp. Salt

Directions:
In a 10-gallon sauce pot, brown onions in oil; add garlic and continue cooking just until garlic is translucent. Remove pan from heat. Stir in tomato products and seasonings. Refrigerate and use as needed.
Yield:
6. 5 gallons
Title: Re: Sauce Recipes for Chicago Thin Crust
Post by: Chicago Bob on January 29, 2014, 03:33:16 PM
Escalon's site proves that sauce recipes on their own are just as annoying as dough recipes without any mention of sauce. I want to know what style of pizza uses a sauce with celery seed and beef soup base:

http://www.escalon.net/recipes/Pizza_Sauces/rich-n-hearty-pizza-sauce (http://www.escalon.net/recipes/Pizza_Sauces/rich-n-hearty-pizza-sauce)
Why...a "Rich-n-Hearty Pizza" of course!  :chef:

Bob
Title: Re: Sauce Recipes for Chicago Thin Crust
Post by: cc2323 on February 01, 2014, 07:04:38 PM
I have a "house red" that I do as my default workhorse sauce. I make a pretty big batch - freeze 2/3 - and bring out as needed for pizza, garlic bread dipping, or pasta entree.

28oz can Crushed Tomatoes
28oz can Puree Tomatoes
1 tbsp Sugar, olive oil
1 tsp Oregano, onion powder
1/2 tsp dried Basil, thyme, rosemary, garlic powder
4 bay leaves
1 dried Thai pepper crumbled w/seeds. 2 if I want it more like a spicy arrabiata

I'm not very brand loyal on the tomatoes, but I do try to use low sodium options, which crushed and puree typically are anyway. Simmer for 2 hours, it's pretty thick. Don't use much sauce on my pies so the batch lasts me almost a month.
Title: Re: Sauce Recipes for Chicago Thin Crust
Post by: Chicago Bob on February 01, 2014, 10:02:01 PM
I have a "house red" that I do as my default workhorse sauce. I make a pretty big batch - freeze 2/3 - and bring out as needed for pizza, garlic bread dipping, or pasta entree.

28oz can Crushed Tomatoes
28oz can Puree Tomatoes
1 tbsp Sugar, olive oil
1 tsp Oregano, onion powder
1/2 tsp dried Basil, thyme, rosemary, garlic powder
4 bay leaves
1 dried Thai pepper crumbled w/seeds. 2 if I want it more like a spicy arrabiata

I'm not very brand loyal on the tomatoes, but I do try to use low sodium options, which crushed and puree typically are anyway. Simmer for 2 hours, it's pretty thick. Don't use much sauce on my pies so the batch lasts me almost a month.
I got hesitant when I saw bay leaves...became apprehensive when I saw "not very brand loyal"....the "simmer for 2 hours" was the icing on the cake.   >:(

You must eat a lot of pasta dishes, right cc?

Bob
Title: Re: Sauce Recipes for Chicago Thin Crust
Post by: Garvey on February 02, 2014, 12:03:20 AM
I think that sauce would work for thin.  I'm not a fan of cooking sauces, because that's too much work for me.  But I'm usually a paste guy, which *is* cooked already.  So I could see how taking crushed and purée and then cooking could lead to a similar flavor profile.  The only ingredient I would not like is rosemary.  Too piney for pizza (for me).

Thanks for posting this.  I bet it's delicious.  Even with the rosemary, perhaps. :D

Cheers,
Garvey

Title: Re: Sauce Recipes for Chicago Thin Crust
Post by: Chicago Bob on February 02, 2014, 12:37:49 AM
Bay leaf is for Bolognese .   :'(

Bob
Title: Re: Sauce Recipes for Chicago Thin Crust
Post by: dmckean44 on February 02, 2014, 12:45:12 AM
Cooked sauces have their place, I know a lot of full Italian restaurants use a cooked marinara sauce for pizza. This is true even in New York where cooked sauces are otherwise not often done.
Title: Re: Sauce Recipes for Chicago Thin Crust
Post by: Chicago Bob on February 02, 2014, 12:48:56 AM
Cooked sauces have their place, I know a lot of full Italian restaurants use a cooked marinara sauce for pizza. This is true even in New York where cooked sauces are otherwise not often done.
That is lazy mans pizza and you tell me just one b
ig league pizzeria player that uses cooked sauce....just one man.  ;)
Title: Re: Sauce Recipes for Chicago Thin Crust
Post by: Jackitup on February 02, 2014, 01:40:48 AM
Different strokes brother, just keep the ideas coming!!

jon
Title: Re: Sauce Recipes for Chicago Thin Crust
Post by: Pete-zza on February 02, 2014, 01:57:14 PM
That is lazy mans pizza and you tell me just one b
ig league pizzeria player that uses cooked sauce....just one man.  ;)
Bob,

Dom DeMarco, for his Sicilian style pizzas. Now, back to sauces for thin Chicago.

Peter
Title: Re: Sauce Recipes for Chicago Thin Crust
Post by: Jackitup on February 07, 2014, 12:21:02 AM
A new twist on Garvey's Pizza Factory sauce. Why you ask??? Because I always have to eff around with stuff like the rest of you :-D And so far it tastes pretty damned good!

1  28oz can of Cento crushed tomatoes
1  12oz can of Contadina tomato paste
2  5.5 cans of Sacramento tomato juice
1/4 cup of Garvey's seasoning mix from the bulk recipe I converted with a couple tweaks
1/8+ cup of wild flower honey
1 tsp of Aji Panca chili powder
a little extra S&P to taste

This was all combined with a whisk an hour ago and will adjust tomorrow after the dry spices bloom overnite, the honey was nuked for a few seconds to warm for a better mix and not set in a glob. Warden Rosie thought it needed more of the seasoning blend but we agreed to wait and taste tomorrow. Will post any adjustments. It will go on a 00/hi gluten hybrid crust I've been playing with. Kind of a NY/Chicago/NP mix if you will.  If it's worth posting I will toss that in also

jon
Title: Re: Sauce Recipes for Chicago Thin Crust
Post by: Garvey on February 07, 2014, 08:03:52 AM
Jon:

That sounds interesting.  What is the ratio normally for you?  I know you posted earlier that it is "1 to 2 Tbs per 12 oz can of paste," but the latter is a full 100% more than the former.  What is your personal "sweet spot"?  If it's closer to 2 Tbs, then this mix you posted sounds comparable, spice-wise.  I wonder how the crushed toms will be.

Cheers,
Garvey



Title: Re: Sauce Recipes for Chicago Thin Crust
Post by: Jackitup on February 07, 2014, 08:33:00 AM
Well with the tomatoes and juice it totals up to 50+ ozs of sauce so I added a bit more, Just tasted it a few minutes ago and it tastes perfect, bloomed out nicely overnite. Maybe just a bit of parm and should be great tonite!!

jon
Title: Re: Sauce Recipes for Chicago Thin Crust
Post by: Jackitup on February 07, 2014, 08:47:15 AM
I added a heaping 1/2 cup of fresh grated parm....perfect. Boss says don't mess with it too!

joo
Title: Re: Sauce Recipes for Chicago Thin Crust
Post by: Jackitup on February 07, 2014, 09:03:13 AM
Garvey, also these Cento crushed tomatoes are more like a pulpy, thick sauce, not in the least bit watery! When mixed with the tomato paste it VERY much needed those 2 cans of juice, could have easily took a 3rd can, we'll see later tonite after the fresh shredding of parm thickens things up

jon
Title: Re: Sauce Recipes for Chicago Thin Crust
Post by: Garvey on February 07, 2014, 11:43:48 AM
Paste is funny that way.  It is very spongelike.  The herbs will suck up a lot of liquid, too.  I never make Pizza Factory Sauce ahead of time, because it'll need to be thinned out before using.
Title: Re: Sauce Recipes for Chicago Thin Crust
Post by: CDNpielover on February 07, 2014, 02:26:58 PM
hrm lots of recipes here.  I've tried Garvey's Pizza Factory but none of the others.  has anyone tried more than one?  I'm making sauce this evening for some pies tomorrow - any suggestion for which one I should try?
Title: Re: Sauce Recipes for Chicago Thin Crust
Post by: CDNpielover on February 07, 2014, 07:19:41 PM
Aurelio's Sauce
28 oz Classico purée (or peeled ground if not available)
1/2 Tbs salt
1/2 tsp pepper
1 Tbs sugar
1/2 tsp oregano
1/2 tsp basil

Just made this sauce, will try it tomorrow and report back!
Title: Re: Sauce Recipes for Chicago Thin Crust
Post by: Garvey on February 07, 2014, 10:53:22 PM
Southside sweet sauce!  Enjoy!
Title: Re: Sauce Recipes for Chicago Thin Crust
Post by: dmckean44 on February 08, 2014, 12:27:06 AM
Just made this sauce, will try it tomorrow and report back!

It's awesome, I eat it with a spoon when I'm not putting it on pizza!
Title: Re: Sauce Recipes for Chicago Thin Crust
Post by: CDNpielover on February 09, 2014, 10:14:44 AM
Hey Garvey, I made a saucy pie last night using your Aurelio's clone sauce, pepperoni, mushrooms, green peppers, and a %$# ton of whole milk mozzarella. The sauce really hit the spot, thanks for the recipe. I usually make sauces similar to November's red sauce #2 or Peter's PJ clone, but this one works especially great on midwestern-style thin.  I've never had Aurelio's, but this pie was just like you would find in MN/Wisconsin!   :chef:
Title: Re: Sauce Recipes for Chicago Thin Crust
Post by: Garvey on February 09, 2014, 04:46:36 PM
Glad you liked it!  The sweetness balances out the salty of the cheese and meat(s).  Not everyone cares for the style, which is predominantly found on the Southside/South 'Burbs.  There are a few good ones, even sweeter than this one.

Cheers,
Garvey
Title: Re: Sauce Recipes for Chicago Thin Crust
Post by: pythonic on February 10, 2014, 12:34:51 AM
Glad you liked it!  The sweetness balances out the salty of the cheese and meat(s).  Not everyone cares for the style, which is predominantly found on the Southside/South 'Burbs.  There are a few good ones, even sweeter than this one.

Cheers,
Garvey

Garvey,

Any reason you chose the Classico purée instead of another brand?

Nate
Title: Re: Sauce Recipes for Chicago Thin Crust
Post by: Garvey on February 10, 2014, 06:58:29 AM
Nate:

Well, Classico purée is awesome, for one thing.  It has more natural sweetness and fewer added ingredients than anything else I could find.  Also, it is a true purée and not just paste and water, which is how many grocery store purée varieties are canned and sold.

Of course, all tha being said, I cannot find Classico in stores anymore... :'(
So I'll need to rework this completely against another brand's flavor profile, because I think I already used up my last can.  (Any suggestions?)

Cheers,
Garvey
Title: Re: Sauce Recipes for Chicago Thin Crust
Post by: CDNpielover on February 10, 2014, 09:51:23 AM
I thankfully still have a few cans of Classico from when Walmart reduced them to $1.  Still can't believe they stopped carrying these, though. 
Title: Re: Sauce Recipes for Chicago Thin Crust
Post by: Mad_Ernie on February 10, 2014, 01:52:34 PM
Southside sweet sauce!  Enjoy!

Garvey:

I made a batch of your southside thin sauce this past weekend to use with my thin cracker/Midwestern style crust for a pepperoni and mushroom pizza.  I like both the consistency (more on the thick side but not too thick) and the balance of flavors.  The only changes I made were:
1) did not use Contadina tomato paste (I am not a fan)
2) used brown sugar instead of plain white granulated sugar

This is probably the 3rd or 4th time I have made this sauce and I like it a lot.  It is one of my go-to sauce recipes.

Graci,

-ME  8)
Title: Re: Sauce Recipes for Chicago Thin Crust
Post by: Garvey on February 10, 2014, 06:38:48 PM
Thanks, ME.  Brown sugar?  I may have to try that.  I am surprised to hear you don't like Contadina.  If I can't find it, I won't make Pizza Factory.  It has the right flavor for this particular sauce.  But that is me, recreating a pizza that exists no more--whereas you are just makin' pizza. 

(BTW, for the folks following along at home, we're discussing the Pizza Factory sauce and not the Auerlio's sauce.)

Cheers,
Garvey
Title: Re: Sauce Recipes for Chicago Thin Crust
Post by: Mad_Ernie on February 13, 2014, 12:51:45 PM
Thanks, ME.  Brown sugar?  I may have to try that.  I am surprised to hear you don't like Contadina.  If I can't find it, I won't make Pizza Factory.  It has the right flavor for this particular sauce.  But that is me, recreating a pizza that exists no more--whereas you are just makin' pizza. 

(BTW, for the folks following along at home, we're discussing the Pizza Factory sauce and not the Auerlio's sauce.)

Cheers,
Garvey

Garvey:

Of all the ingredients that go on a pizza, I have found that sauce is the most personal and the most difficult to replicate.  There are so many possible permutations of ingredients and amounts of ingredients that it really is a personal journey on a trial and error basis to find out what each person's taste buds tells him/her which sauce(s) are the best for them.

Thanks again for the recipe.

-ME
Title: Re: Sauce Recipes for Chicago Thin Crust
Post by: Garvey on February 13, 2014, 03:34:37 PM
M.E.:

I hear ya!  It took an entire summer, making Pizza Factory 5x/wk or more (!), to nail down that recipe.  The dough and everything else came easy.  It was the sauce that led to the seemingly endless trial-and-error phase.

Cheers,
Garvey
Title: Re: Sauce Recipes for Chicago Thin Crust
Post by: pythonic on February 13, 2014, 03:44:54 PM
M.E.:

I hear ya!  It took an entire summer, making Pizza Factory 5x/wk or more (!), to nail down that recipe.  The dough and everything else came easy.  It was the sauce that led to the seemingly endless trial-and-error phase.

Cheers,
Garvey

Sauce is so key on pizza.  Just look at the sauce on Malnatis and Danos.  Imagine if the sauce stunk it up?
Title: Re: Sauce Recipes for Chicago Thin Crust
Post by: vcb on February 14, 2014, 12:20:18 PM
I'm going to make an uncooked tomato paste based thin crust pizza sauce today.

I'm starting with 2 - 6oz cans of paste.

I know people thin the paste out with different kinds of liquid (oil, water, wine, vinegar, etc),
but today I'm just going with plain old filtered Lake Michigan water.

Does anyone have opinions on the water to paste ratio?
 1 to 1, 2 parts water to 1 part paste, more ??
Title: Re: Sauce Recipes for Chicago Thin Crust
Post by: Garvey on February 14, 2014, 01:01:40 PM
Ed:

I like 2 parts paste to 1 part water (e.g., the Pizza Factory sauce calls for 12 oz paste plus 3/4 c. water.)

BTW, how many pizzas you making?  I like a saucy pie, so 2 - 6oz cans of paste would be enough for two pizzas with perhaps a tiny bit left.  You could stretch it to three if you add a little water or if someone doesn't like their pie as saucy.

HTH,
Garvey
Title: Re: Sauce Recipes for Chicago Thin Crust
Post by: vcb on February 14, 2014, 01:16:41 PM
Ed:

I like 2 parts paste to 1 part water (e.g., the Pizza Factory sauce calls for 12 oz paste plus 3/4 c. water.)

BTW, how many pizzas you making?  I like a saucy pie, so 2 - 6oz cans of paste would be enough for two pizzas with perhaps a tiny bit left.  You could stretch it to three if you add a little water or if someone doesn't like their pie as saucy.

HTH,
Garvey

I'm making about 3 pizzas tonight, but I'm shooting for a 3 to 4 pizza sauce recipe, to match my puree recipe that I posted at the beginning of this thread.

So far, I've gone with 1 to 1 and it still looks a little thick.
Pizza Factory must use a plastering trowel to apply their sauce :-D.
Maybe initial paste water content varies from brand to brand.
 
After adding my spices and seasonings, It looks like I'll be using less sugar than I use for puree.

I'm going to add 6 more oz of water to make it a 3 water to 2 paste ratio and see if I like the consistency.
So for those playing at home, that's 12 oz of paste and 18 oz of water, plus seasonings.

I'll let you know how it goes, but so far, it tastes like it's going to work out pretty well.
Title: Re: Sauce Recipes for Chicago Thin Crust
Post by: pythonic on February 14, 2014, 03:19:29 PM
I'm making about 3 pizzas tonight, but I'm shooting for a 3 to 4 pizza sauce recipe, to match my puree recipe that I posted at the beginning of this thread.

So far, I've gone with 1 to 1 and it still looks a little thick.
Pizza Factory must use a plastering trowel to apply their sauce :-D.
Maybe initial paste water content varies from brand to brand.
 
After adding my spices and seasonings, It looks like I'll be using less sugar than I use for puree.

I'm going to add 6 more oz of water to make it a 3 water to 2 paste ratio and see if I like the consistency.
So for those playing at home, that's 12 oz of paste and 18 oz of water, plus seasonings.

I'll let you know how it goes, but so far, it tastes like it's going to work out pretty well.

Garvey,

You still live in Chicago right?  We should all VCB, derricktung, pizzagarage...etc ) get together have a pizza night.

Nate
Title: Re: Sauce Recipes for Chicago Thin Crust
Post by: Mad_Ernie on February 14, 2014, 04:43:01 PM
I'm making about 3 pizzas tonight, but I'm shooting for a 3 to 4 pizza sauce recipe, to match my puree recipe that I posted at the beginning of this thread.

So far, I've gone with 1 to 1 and it still looks a little thick.
Pizza Factory must use a plastering trowel to apply their sauce :-D.


Actually I have seen at least one pizza restaurant use a brush to lay on their sauce, which is a similar consistency to Garvey's.  That would be Happy Joe's Pizza, headquartered in Bettendorf, IA.

-ME
Title: Re: Sauce Recipes for Chicago Thin Crust
Post by: Garvey on February 14, 2014, 06:46:51 PM
Nate:

That sounds awesome and I'd be totally game, but I moved down South years ago.  I only make it back to visit.  If I lived up there, I would never make pizza.  I would just order it 3x/wk.  :-D

At least half of all my culinary adventures down here are to recreate foods that are not available in this region of the world. 

Peace,
Garvey
Title: Re: Sauce Recipes for Chicago Thin Crust
Post by: dmckean44 on February 14, 2014, 07:00:45 PM
Actually I have seen at least one pizza restaurant use a brush to lay on their sauce, which is a similar consistency to Garvey's.  That would be Happy Joe's Pizza, headquartered in Bettendorf, IA.

I used to love to watch them make pizzas at Happy Joe's when I was a kid. I wonder if the pizza is still the same today.
Title: Re: Sauce Recipes for Chicago Thin Crust
Post by: vcb on February 14, 2014, 11:33:44 PM
3 parts water to 2 parts paste worked pretty well.

I may dial back on the spices a bit, compared to my puree recipe, but I still had some tasty pizza this evening.

You can see pics of my Valentine's pizza on the Real Deep Dish Facebook page.  :chef: :pizza:
Title: Re: Sauce Recipes for Chicago Thin Crust
Post by: TomN on February 15, 2014, 12:04:08 AM
*we now return to the sauce currently in progress...*

VIDEO: Vito & Nicks from Chicago's Best:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=84Mchxfd6LE (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=84Mchxfd6LE)

They put the sauce on about 1 and 1/2 minutes in.
You can see they put down a good amount and go all the way to the edge.
I'm guessing a 6oz, but could possibly an 8oz ladle.

I really enjoyed the clip. Thanks for posting it.
Title: Re: Sauce Recipes for Chicago Thin Crust
Post by: Mad_Ernie on February 19, 2014, 09:08:40 AM
I used to love to watch them make pizzas at Happy Joe's when I was a kid. I wonder if the pizza is still the same today.

I have only been to a Happy Joe's in Iowa City in recent years, and I can tell you that it did not taste the same as the old Happy Joe's.  There is a former Happy Joe's franchise owner in Independence, MO who makes a Happy Joe's clone that uses the same old ingredients and techniques as the old HJ's, and his pizza tastes more like I remember it.

http://www.roadfood.com/Restaurant/Overview/3352/tims-pizza (http://www.roadfood.com/Restaurant/Overview/3352/tims-pizza)

-ME
Title: Re: Sauce Recipes for Chicago Thin Crust
Post by: nick57 on February 20, 2014, 10:20:23 AM
I went to Classico's home page and they seem to only to sell pasta sauces now. Nothing on canned tomato products. I used their contact link and asked them where I could purchase their crushed tomatoes in my area since Wal Mart no longer carries them. That was 2 weeks ago and have not got a response as of yet. I did find 2 cans of Classico at Amazon.com. They were asking $19.99 for 2 28oz cans. Here's the link... http://www.amazon.com/dp/B008WOOMSM/?tag=pizzamaking-20 (http://www.amazon.com/dp/B008WOOMSM/?tag=pizzamaking-20)  I guess I'll stick with the Great Value brand. I have been thinking about buying a 6 pack of the Escalon's soon. It figures, when I find a great product, they quit selling it soon after. A day late and a dollar short.
Title: Re: Sauce Recipes for Chicago Thin Crust
Post by: nick57 on February 20, 2014, 12:36:49 PM
I went a different route and contacted the local rep for Classico...(Heinz). I guess they are not making any canned products. I thanked him for his quick response, but did not mention that Great Value was almost a good as the Classico. I am taking his advice and I am going to order a 6 pack of Escalon crushed tomatoes. Here was his response.....


Unfortunately Wal Mart has discontinued that line of Classico products. We do have an exceptional product called 6 in 1 ground tomatoes in 28oz. cans but no one in the Tulsa Market stocks it. You can order on line - See web site attached - Thanks

Chris Craig
Sales Manager
Escalon Premier Brands
985.807.5192 - Cell
[email protected]
www.escalon.net (http://www.escalon.net)
Title: Re: Sauce Recipes for Chicago Thin Crust
Post by: Chicago 67 on February 20, 2014, 02:34:07 PM
Nice! Thank you. ill try it this week end. Very close to Aurillio's. Aurillio's is a bit sweeter.
Title: Re: Sauce Recipes for Chicago Thin Crust
Post by: CMC on March 02, 2020, 04:37:22 PM
Red:

I may post this as a separate thread, to make it easier for people to find later, but here is the explanation.  Where I grew up, there were certain joints that did the crumbled sausage.  Still do.  It gives great coverage, and its saltiness is a counterbalance to the sweet sauce.

It had long stumped me how these places got the sausage to a format that would go on a pizza.  Like you said, you can't exactly "crumble" raw sausage.  It would just be a sticky mess.  And I've never seen a rangetop in one of these pizza joints, where they could be frying up the sausage beforehand.  I've tried that method, and it is terrible.  There is too much flavor loss, since frying renders out too much fat.  Ultimately, I don't know how we stumbled upon this method.  Someone might have tipped me off over at slice/seriouseats (Kenji or another commenter?), or my buddies and I just talked it through and figured it out.  It had to be accomplished by oven alone.  So the method is to make a thick, hamburger-like patty and bake it in the hot pizza oven (e.g., in a cutter pan or whatnot) for 5-7 minutes, which is just enough to get it to set but still raw enough that you're not losing too much flavor before going onto the pizza.

Crumbled Pizza Sausage
  • Remove sausage from casings or use bulk sausage
  • Form into large, thick hamburger patty, 8-12 oz in weight
  • Place in cutter pan or pie pan, etc.
  • Bake in hot pizza oven for 5-7 minutes until outside is browned a bit.  Do not overcook: the meat will be just set but still underdone and pinkish throughout the patty--no longer raw but not truly cooked, either.
  • Let cool for a few minutes until it can be handled or until room temp (your choice)
  • Use your hands to break it up or crumble it into the pan or directly onto a pizza (I prefer the latter)


Cheers,
Garvey

Not this style of pizza, but this weekend I did make pizza with a batch of crumbled sausage using the procedure above, using this sausage recipe:
https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=17662.msg171285#msg171285

and a slight riff on this sauce recipe (more dried herbs, more black pepper, add a little red wine vinegar):
https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=29780.msg298339#msg298339

The actual pie was a 12" pan pizza with a 24 hour, 70% hydration no-knead dough as discussed here:
https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=23064.0

I made it cheese-heavy with 12oz total: 4oz each of Chellino scamorza, LMPS mozz, & WMM.  Seriously good pizza, but sorry for no photos.

I apologize for necro-posting and for being a little off topic.  The pizza itself would be out of place in the Chicago forum, so it seemed wrong to start a new thread here, but I've been wanting to try this crumbled sausage procedure and I enjoyed the result immensely.  Thinking about that crumbled, fennel-heavy sausage has me salivating even now.
Title: Re: Sauce Recipes for Chicago Thin Crust
Post by: Chicago Bob on March 02, 2020, 06:17:39 PM
I'm glad you posted this CMC. I've never done sausage crumbles on chi-thin crust pizza and am now going to try it.

In the 70s I also liked the pork topping crumbles on the pizza hut thin and crispy.

Is pork crumbles just ground pork or do most joints add seasoning to the ground pork before turning it into crumbles.... Anyone know?
Thanks!
Title: Re: Sauce Recipes for Chicago Thin Crust
Post by: CMC on March 02, 2020, 07:47:22 PM
BTW, in my post above, where I started off by writing "not this style of pizza," the style I was referring to (and the thread I meant to post this in) is the Calumet City / Quad City style discussed in this thread, where I first read about the sausage method.

https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=36778.0

I must have had too many windows open while collecting all the various links I used for the different components.

To elaborate a little on the procedure, as I interpreted it, I started with the oven at 500° for the pan pizza I was preparing to make.  I pressed the sausage into a large burger-like patty and put it on a Pyrex pie plate. I baked it for about 7 minutes at which point it was cooked similarly to a medium rare hamburger. I cooled it still in the pie plate, then cut it into smallish pieces with kitchen shears, and then crumbled those pieces as small as possible with my fingers. Before topping the pizza with it, I stirred it around the pie plate to collect any loose liquid fat, so essentially any fat that rendered out of the sausage during cooking made its way into the pizza. Good stuff!
Title: Re: Sauce Recipes for Chicago Thin Crust
Post by: Chicago Bob on March 02, 2020, 08:07:47 PM
Thanks CMC. 🍻

        Anyone know how to make the pork topping crumbles? 🙈
Title: Re: Sauce Recipes for Chicago Thin Crust
Post by: CMC on March 02, 2020, 08:45:44 PM
Thanks CMC. 🍻

        Anyone know how to make the pork topping crumbles? 🙈

I'm not familiar with PH pork topping, but a web search turned up this among some other results. The sounds like a  breakfast sausage flavor profile, which seems a little strange to me for pizza topping. Then again, maybe it's delicious.

http://www.devinalexander.com/pizza-hut-pork-topping/

Does that sound way off base, Bob?
Title: Re: Sauce Recipes for Chicago Thin Crust
Post by: Chicago Bob on March 02, 2020, 09:05:30 PM
I'm not familiar with PH pork topping, but a web search turned up this among some other results. The sounds like a  breakfast sausage flavor profile, which seems a little strange to me for pizza topping. Then again, maybe it's delicious.

http://www.devinalexander.com/pizza-hut-pork-topping/

Does that sound way off base, Bob?
yeah, it's definitely not sage breakfast sausage . I believe places like PH and Domino's, Papa John's maybe, still do the pork crumbles as a default if you order "sausage" and don't specify you want Italian sausage (chunks).  🎰
Title: Re: Sauce Recipes for Chicago Thin Crust
Post by: CMC on March 02, 2020, 09:14:34 PM
I'm sure it wasn't that way in the 70's, and I suspect it's not what you're looking to recreate (lol), but what some of those chains pass for sausage is barely even recognizable as pork. In fact, I think some % of it actually isn't pork, but TVP (textured vegetable protein).
Title: Re: Sauce Recipes for Chicago Thin Crust
Post by: Garvey on March 03, 2020, 09:38:06 AM
To elaborate a little on the procedure, as I interpreted it, I started with the oven at 500° for the pan pizza I was preparing to make.  I pressed the sausage into a large burger-like patty and put it on a Pyrex pie plate. I baked it for about 7 minutes at which point it was cooked similarly to a medium rare hamburger. I cooled it still in the pie plate, then cut it into smallish pieces with kitchen shears, and then crumbled those pieces as small as possible with my fingers. Before topping the pizza with it, I stirred it around the pie plate to collect any loose liquid fat, so essentially any fat that rendered out of the sausage during cooking made its way into the pizza. Good stuff!

Yes!  This sounds perfect!

In the ensuing years since I first wrote this up, I saw a cooking show where a pizza joint was making this style of suasage by filling a hotel pan with a couple inches of raw sausage, baking it off until it set, and then running it through a buffalo chopper or some such to break it up. 

So taking a cue from that, I now use a food processor to chop up my par-baked sausage patties.  HTH!
Title: Re: Sauce Recipes for Chicago Thin Crust
Post by: CMC on March 03, 2020, 09:49:56 AM
So taking a cue from that, I now use a food processor to chop up my par-baked sausage patties.  HTH!

I absolutely thought about doing that, and I agree it would probably be the best home method of breaking up the par-cooked sausage, but in the moment I told myself I couldn't justify washing the 4 separate parts of the FP to save myself what was probably a 3-4 minute job breaking it up by hand.  I was happy with the fineness of the crumbles I was able to break it down to by hand... but if I was ever doing a larger quantity of sausage, I'd definitely consider using the FP to break it down.  Thanks for your reply!
Title: Re: Sauce Recipes for Chicago Thin Crust
Post by: CMC on March 03, 2020, 11:31:48 AM
yeah, it's definitely not sage breakfast sausage . I believe places like PH and Domino's, Papa John's maybe, still do the pork crumbles as a default if you order "sausage" and don't specify you want Italian sausage (chunks).  🎰

I'm sure it wasn't that way in the 70's, and I suspect it's not what you're looking to recreate (lol), but what some of those chains pass for sausage is barely even recognizable as pork. In fact, I think some % of it actually isn't pork, but TVP (textured vegetable protein).

Still curious, I found a list of ingredients for Pizza Hut's dough and toppings.  This dives even further off topic, but I wanted to correct an implication I made above which I found to be incorrect.

https://d3ixjveba7l33q.cloudfront.net/mobilem8-php/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/PH-Ingredient-Listings-English-June-2014.pdf

Pork Topping: Pork, Water, Soy Protein Concentrate, Salt, Seasoning (Spices, Sugar, Autolyzed Yeast Extract, Torula Yeast, Onion Powder, Flavor, Modified Hydrogenated Soybean Oil, Beef Broth Powder, Silicon Dioxide Garlic Powder), Potassium Chloride.

So at least at PH, they aren't using TVP.  They do list soy protein concentrate (which is also in their pepperoni, "beef topping," and meatballs, but not in their Italian sausage).

From https://www.sausagemaker.com/soy-protein-concentrate-1lb-12oz-p/11-1018.htm :
Soy protein concentrate for sausage is used in smoked or cooked varieties to improve the meat’s consistency and flavor. The concentrate binds the fat and meat for a smoother consistency and minimizes shrinkage in the smokehouse by increasing moisture retention. Because it contains seven times more protein than meat alone, it can help improve the nutritional quality of your foods as well.

From wikipedia:
Soy protein concentrate is used in meat and poultry products to increase water and fat retention and to improve nutritional values (more protein, less fat).

That's all.  I won't veer this thread any further off-topic, I promise.  :)
Title: Re: Sauce Recipes for Chicago Thin Crust
Post by: Garvey on March 03, 2020, 03:30:51 PM
I absolutely thought about doing that, and I agree it would probably be the best home method of breaking up the par-cooked sausage, but in the moment I told myself I couldn't justify washing the 4 separate parts of the FP to save myself what was probably a 3-4 minute job breaking it up by hand.  I was happy with the fineness of the crumbles I was able to break it down to by hand... but if I was ever doing a larger quantity of sausage, I'd definitely consider using the FP to break it down.  Thanks for your reply!

Same.  One pizza's worth of sausage is one thing, but multiple lbs for a pizza party calls for higher tech.  Plus, I'm not the one who washes the dishes.   ;D
Title: Re: Sauce Recipes for Chicago Thin Crust
Post by: Wengerski on March 03, 2020, 04:55:34 PM
1 #10 Can Pizzaiolo Autentico
1 #10 Can Full Red Pizza Sauce with Basil
About 1/4 Cup finely chopped fresh Basil
2 Tbsp Oregano
2 Tbsp Dried Basil
1 Tbsp Marjoram
1 Tbsp Thyme
Title: Re: Sauce Recipes for Chicago Thin Crust
Post by: md8232 on June 14, 2020, 10:40:29 AM
1 #10 Can Pizzaiolo Autentico
1 #10 Can Full Red Pizza Sauce with Basil
About 1/4 Cup finely chopped fresh Basil
2 Tbsp Oregano
2 Tbsp Dried Basil
1 Tbsp Marjoram
1 Tbsp Thyme

Is there an easy way to scale down recipes like this one?
I make 2 pizzas Max and my freezers are already full of tasty meat.
Title: Re: Sauce Recipes for Chicago Thin Crust
Post by: vcb on June 14, 2020, 11:08:26 AM
Is there an easy way to scale down recipes like this one?
I make 2 pizzas Max and my freezers are already full of tasty meat.

A #10 can is 109 fluid ounces.

If you're starting with a single 28 fl oz can of tomatoes like I often do, divide the other ingredients by approximately 3.89

That should get you in the range of a recipe that can cover 3 to 4 pizzas, depending on how much you use on each pizza.
 :chef:

* edit - additional info:
For the recipes that call for more than one kind of canned tomatoes, you might need to work with 15oz cans or half of a 28oz for each kind.
Title: Re: Sauce Recipes for Chicago Thin Crust
Post by: jsaras on June 14, 2020, 11:25:52 AM
Is there an easy way to scale down recipes like this one?
I make 2 pizzas Max and my freezers are already full of tasty meat.

For a single 28 ounce can of tomato product it roughly translates to:

1-1/2 tsp fresh basil
3/4 tsp oregano
3/4 tsp dried basil
1/2 tsp marjoram
1/2 tsp thyme
Title: Re: Sauce Recipes for Chicago Thin Crust
Post by: RSMBob on September 10, 2020, 12:11:21 AM
I mentioned it on another thread but as much as I've experimented, I've gone simple/lazy lately but like the results...1/2 Pastorelli Pizza Sauce, 1/2 crushed tomatoes (don't have a favorite brand but use Cento a lot), and some Penzey's Pizza seasoning mixed in. Stir and refrigerate. Good to go!
Title: Re: Sauce Recipes for Chicago Thin Crust
Post by: Jackitup on September 10, 2020, 01:22:28 AM
I mentioned it on another thread but as much as I've experimented, I've gone simple/lazy lately but like the results...1/2 Pastorelli Pizza Sauce, 1/2 crushed tomatoes (don't have a favorite brand but use Cento a lot), and some Penzey's Pizza seasoning mixed in. Stir and refrigerate. Good to go!

I often use Pastorelli, not bad for a prepared sauce!