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Author Topic: Malnati Deep Dish with Semolina  (Read 282827 times)

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Offline Aldo

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Re: Malnati Deep Dish with Semolina
« Reply #320 on: September 05, 2010, 01:54:04 PM »
Hey "firefly765"

You asked:

Quote
Can a complete pie be made a day or 2 ahead of time, refrigerated, (complete) then cooked a few days later? Or would this be soggy?
Would i be better off cooking, refrigerating, then reheating at a later time?

As to pan, I haven't tried.  But as to stuffed, I've done that many times now --with fine results.  Usually I bake a pie and take it to work, where a work friend takes it home in the pan, re-heats, and eats.  So far, I've heard no complaints.  Some pies have sat in fridges, partially baked, for a few days.  I took one from the fridge that way, re-heated at a lower temperature, and it was just fine.  I normally bake stuffed pies at between 400 and 450.  When I partially bake them, my goal is to bake it enough to harden the crust (i.e., et the crust to stop rising.)  Then I suggest re-heating at a lower temp for a longer time -- the 'slow and low' method.

With pan pies it may be different.  I think since there's more sauce on top of a pan pie, you might want to think about the dehydration factor -- in other words, cooking twice could really dry out -- rather than make soggy -- your pie.  of course, I haven't written to just making a pie, leaving it unbaked, and then cooking it a few days later.  Frankly, I wouldn't be inclined to even try to do that, because I would think the water in the sauce would start seeping inside the dough, making it less the texture I expect in the end, and the dough wouldn't stop rising, perhaps.  But if you try, please post results.

Thanks, and good luck.

Offline c0mpl3x

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Re: Malnati Deep Dish with Semolina
« Reply #321 on: September 12, 2010, 09:42:22 PM »
did it again this time at work.  sweet italian sausage was the topping.  14oz of mozz, and half jo-de/stanislaus sauce to half 'so natural' brand diced tomatoes.  sprinkled about 2oz of block ground pecorino romano on top.  4.4 minute parbake with cheese, another 6.2 with the sausage/romano/sauce

could have baked it another minute or two, but we got slammed with orders and i ran out of room in the oven.

this is still the malnati recipe from the first post, using cornmeal in place of semolina.
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Offline wallstangel

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Re: Malnati Deep Dish with Semolina
« Reply #322 on: October 03, 2010, 03:17:30 PM »

Wow, your pizza looks amazing!  Thank you for posting the recipe.  However, I have a quick question. Does the type of oil make a big difference?  I'm confused as to what oil produces the best outcome.  I see some using vegetable, some olive, some corn, some canola, and now yours appears to be a blend.  Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated.

Offline loowaters

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Re: Malnati Deep Dish with Semolina
« Reply #323 on: October 03, 2010, 09:58:54 PM »
A blend of corn and classic olive works best with this type of dough.  You can tinker all you like with it, that's part of the fun.

Loo
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Offline cup-o-pizza

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Re: Malnati Deep Dish with Semolina
« Reply #324 on: October 05, 2010, 11:26:50 AM »
Hey guys,

After spending the better part of a year perfecting my Lehmann NY-style dough, I am ready to dig into Chicago-style dough. I was mostly inspired by the Classic Lou that I ate at Malnati's last Saturday while staying in Chicago. Anyway, I just have a few questions before making my first dough. I've sifted through this entire thread, but haven't specifically found the answers I'm looking for.

1. @BTB How do you currently mix your dough ingredients?  Are you still doing an autolyse, and, if so, do you think it is critical to the success of your Malnati dough formulation?

2. Also @BTB How much butter are you using in your Malnati recipe these days?  If it's more than 1%, are you decreasing the corn and olive oil amounts to compensate?

3. Should I use EVOO or classic OO when making a Chicago-style dough?

Thanks very much!
Matt

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Offline vcb

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Re: Malnati Deep Dish with Semolina
« Reply #325 on: October 05, 2010, 12:15:09 PM »
1. @BTB How do you currently mix your dough ingredients?  Are you still doing an autolyse, and, if so, do you think it is critical to the success of your Malnati dough formulation?

further up in this thread, I talk about what I usually do:
http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,6480.msg98384.html#msg98384
Quote
So for me, my optimum dough is:
1) combine ingredients into a smooth dough ball with minimal kneading.
2) rise for 1-2 hours in a warm place
3) stick in a ziploc overnight in the fridge
4) take bag of dough out of fridge and let it come to room temp on the counter (1-2 hours) before pressing into pan.
It's not critical to refrigerate the dough, especially if you're making it the same day, but you definitely benefit from letting the dough get at least one rise in before you punch it down and press it out into the pan.

2. Also @BTB How much butter are you using in your Malnati recipe these days?  If it's more than 1%, are you decreasing the corn and olive oil amounts to compensate?

I don't use any butter in mine, but the 'butter-crust' is basically a liberal brushing of melted butter (possibly margarine) on top of the dough after it's been pressed out into the pan. Some in this forum have actually incorporated melted butter into their dough formulations.

3. Should I use EVOO or classic OO when making a Chicago-style dough?

I would use regular/classic Olive Oil for deep dish if you are using it. It's mainly about the smoke-point being higher in a more refined oil.
Extra Virgin Olive Oil does have more flavor, but (probably because of this) will burn at lower temps and is not really meant for high-heat applications, no matter how much Rachael Ray tells you.
I personally use a 50/50 mix of corn and olive oil in my dough.

Hope this helps.
A lot of this info has been covered in other threads, but I do understand it is sometimes hard to find it all.
Keep digging! :-)
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Offline BTB

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Re: Malnati Deep Dish with Semolina
« Reply #326 on: October 05, 2010, 02:54:07 PM »
1. @BTB How do you currently mix your dough ingredients?  Are you still doing an autolyse, and, if so, do you think it is critical to the success of your Malnati dough formulation?

2. Also @BTB How much butter are you using in your Malnati recipe these days?  If it's more than 1%, are you decreasing the corn and olive oil amounts to compensate?

3. Should I use EVOO or classic OO when making a Chicago-style dough?
Cup-O-Pizza,  I am a determined hand mixer of deep dish dough, except when I use my food processor for some cracker crust types.  And I am irrevocably committed (old-fashioned, I know) to mixing most doughs by hand just with a wooden spoon.  And I swear by it.  I prefer doing autolyse but I'm often so busy doing various styles of pizzas for my guests that I too often by-pass it (as well as forget it sometimes).  I prefer it, but I will not say that it is that critical to the success of the dough formulation.  Over time, experiment and see what you think.
                                                                     
I generally do 6% butter these days.  See the posting at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,11855.msg110385.html#msg110385 .  I did decrease the oil a bit as you will notice there and decreased the water (i.e., hydration) as the butter contains upwards of 20% or so of water.   

I think classic OO (even light OO) is best, but on occasion have run out of it and used my wife's EVOO and it was pretty good also. 

BTW, which Malnati's location did you recently go to?  Some are great and some are . . . less than that.

Best of luck with your pizzamaking adventures.  You'll have a lot of fun with in (just get a bigger belt).

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Offline cup-o-pizza

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Re: Malnati Deep Dish with Semolina
« Reply #327 on: October 05, 2010, 03:18:52 PM »
Thanks for the replies:)

BTB, I went to the Malnati's on N Wells Street in the River North area in downtown Chicago. I thought the pie I had there was top notch.

I'll post pics of my Malnati pie, if it's presentable:)
Matt

Navin R. Johnson: "Oh, this is the best pizza in a cup ever. This guy is unbelievable. He ran the old Cup 'o Pizza guy out of business."

Offline cup-o-pizza

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Re: Malnati Deep Dish with Semolina
« Reply #328 on: October 09, 2010, 08:24:13 AM »
I made a vatiation of BTB's Malnati recipe last night.  I don't think it was too bad, for a first effort!  That said, there were a few things I think could have been better.  For one, I just sort of guessed at the topping amounts.  The layer of mozzarella slices didn't seem substantial enough.  I did a single layer of slices and there just wasn't as much gooey cheese as the Malnati's pie I ate at the restaurant last weekend.  Also, I think I may have used too much sauce and too little italian sausage.  Finally, I think I may have overcooked it slightly.  I cooked it at 450F on the bottom rack of my gas oven for about 30 minutes.  I think pulling it five minutes earlier may have led to a lighter, more biscuit-like crust.  The crust was a little hard around the edges and especially at the top of the outer rim.  On the other hand, the flavor was fantastic!

Matt

Navin R. Johnson: "Oh, this is the best pizza in a cup ever. This guy is unbelievable. He ran the old Cup 'o Pizza guy out of business."

Offline dbgtr

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Re: Malnati Deep Dish with Semolina
« Reply #329 on: October 10, 2010, 03:46:30 PM »
BTB,

I've made your recipe now probably 25 times and its great.  I'm getting a feel for balancing the ingredients, the oven, and so forth.  My pans are old, blackened, and 14" slope pans.  I find in my oven that I'm baking at 400F with a stone on the bottom rack.  My friends tend toward the combo.  What I've been finding is that in order to prevent the pie from being too watery, I'm doing the following:

1.  Saute the mushrooms ahead of time.  This improves the flavor and reduces the moisture

2.  Saute the sausage.  Just curious as to how much sausage you're using on a 14" pie.  I find that browning it off slightly prevents extra grease and moisture in the pie, but am curious about trying to get it right in the traditional method or is this impractical with a pie with mushroom, onion, green pepper, sausage and pepperoni?

3.  I'm using about 1# of low moisture, part skim mozzarella on a 14" pie.

4.  1 28oz can 6 in 1, well strained through a collander (lots of puree and smaller stuff ends up in the lower bowl, recycled into other dishes), 1 28 oz can of Cento italian tomatoes, crushed, well drained.

3.  Baking for around 38 minutes.  This seems to crisp up the crust, and give it a good golden character.  The rim of the crust is a little brown.

Thoughts, suggestions?

David

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Offline loowaters

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Re: Malnati Deep Dish with Semolina
« Reply #330 on: October 10, 2010, 08:45:10 PM »
Looks like you're doing things just fine and like you express, you've gotten a feel for what you like and the equipment you have to get a finished product to your liking. 

To nitpick it a bit, I'm someone that likes to cook hotter and faster.  If I'm using my stone, I preheat it on the lowest rack (I have an exposed element) at 550* and drop to 475* when the pie goes in.  I don't cook a 14" much more than 20 mins.  Marc Malnati said in one of the many videos I've seen that he cooks until the sides pull away from the pan.  Now I've found that to be too soon to pull it but I don't leave it in much longer than that.  I like the crust when it's golden but not really browning too much.  I don't like it too dry.

I use raw sausage and I don't think I'll ever deviate from that.  Regarding the other toppings, you've got a lot going on with a lot of moisture coming, obviously, from those mushrooms and even more from the onion and green pepper.  Put those in a strainer and sprinkle a bit of salt on them to draw the moisture out.

1 lb. of cheese, or close to it, for a 14" is exactly what I've always used.  Like you, I use low moisture, part skim mozz.  Mixing it up with some whole milk mozz or provolone can be really good, too.

When it comes to the tomatoes you're using, you've got two great products that stand alone just fine, so I wouldn't combine them.  When I use Cento tomatoes, because they're in puree, I'll remove the cores and de-seed, then hand crush two 28 oz. cans and return them to the puree.  Almost all of that will go on the 14".  There will be a fair amount of left over puree.  I wouldn't use the 6 in 1's with it unless it's all I have.  Save the 6 in 1's for other types of pies or for adding when you have a lesser tomato for this type of pizza.  If all you have is, say, Hunts, using the 6 in1's will definitely brighten those up.  If you can get your hands on Malnati's tomatoes (random cut tomatoes from their supplier, San Benito, just like they use, available at their stores), one 28 oz. can is perfect for a 14" or two 10" pies.  I add only salt, pepper, extra virgin olive oil, and a small amount of crushed, fresh garlic.

Like I said, I'm just kinda nitpicking and explaining what I do vs. what you do.  I'm not saying what I do is really any better just different.  It seems you've done enough pizzas to realize what you're doing is good work.  If you make some changes let us know.

Loo



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Offline dbgtr

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Re: Malnati Deep Dish with Semolina
« Reply #331 on: October 11, 2010, 07:51:44 AM »
Loo, you use all the thin puree from the Cento's?  I'd be soupy if I did that.  As for baking, my pies come out with the crust looking in color like Cup-o-pizza's 2nd photo in post 29.  --db
« Last Edit: October 11, 2010, 07:54:27 AM by dbgtr »

Offline loowaters

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Re: Malnati Deep Dish with Semolina
« Reply #332 on: October 11, 2010, 09:02:42 AM »
Actually, no.  Once I get the tomatoes crushed (I like kinda large chunks) and squeezed to get rid of some water, I'll throw them in a bowl and then I start adding the puree back in and with two cans now crushed I'd guess the puree of one can might be used, if even all of that.  I should have clarified that a bit better.  Good question and thanks for asking it.

Loo
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Offline BTB

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Re: Malnati Deep Dish with Semolina
« Reply #333 on: October 11, 2010, 09:25:29 AM »
FWIW, in my experience 20 minutes is too short for a 14" diameter deep dish pizza.  And I recall on a number of occasions when dining at Malnati's, the waitress indicating to me and my group that the 14" would take a good deal longer to bake than my usual 9".  To me, at least, crust for a 14" does not get adequately done in that short a time. 
 
But as one often says, "ovens differ, so watch the pizza carefully."  If the toppings or edges of the crust darken early, it could mean you have it on too high a rack in a home oven (a problem that does not exist in a commercial oven like those at Malnati's) or even too high a temperature.  The placement of foil on top for a short while (the Buzz technique) is a good home oven solution in order to assure better baking of the crust underneath.  I've heard more comments on deep dish threads about people saying they "should have kept the deep dish pizza in just a little long longer so that the crust could have baked a little more."  On the other hand, one has to be cautious of burning the crust, too.  Trial and error is the best teacher fortunately or unfortunately.
 
And people's tastes in tomato products are widespread and different.  Hunt's and Cento's are in last place in my estimation, but many think otherwise as some indicate here.  Hunt's came in first place in one organization's taste testing a number of years ago and Cento's came in last place in another's.  Go figure on both IMO.  My tomato products of choice for deep dish after much taste testing and experimentation with most all the different brands is 6 in 1's with Muir Glen diced tomatoes (see picture below).  This combination, to me at least, gets close (but not exact) to a Malnati's pizza.  In any event, my taste testers put it in first place.  A picture of a couple of pieces of my home made pizza looks very close to that served at their restaurant, I think. 
 
And I, too, only use uncooked sausage on my deep dish pizzas and it tastes much better that way.  And that's the way its done at all the major Chicago pizzerias.  But many pizzamakers are reluctant to do so, I know.
 
But different likes, dislikes, techniques, tastes and preferences are what makes the world go around, right?
 
I bought a "6-pack" of the special Malnati's tomatoes recently, but haven't had a chance to try them out yet and won't for a number of weeks yet until I return to Florida.
 
David, your pizza looked good and it'll even be better with more experience under your belt.  One minor suggestion is to make your crust a lot thinner in the pan, both the sides and the bottom.  Most people unfamiliar with Chicago Style deep dish are surprised to learn when they eat one in Chicago that it really is only a little thicker than say Chicago Style thin crust pizzas.  Many New York thin crust pizzas are even thicker than a Chicago Style deep dish pizza.
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Offline dbgtr

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Re: Malnati Deep Dish with Semolina
« Reply #334 on: October 11, 2010, 09:30:18 AM »
BTB, my crust thickness is pretty good, averaging .125 - .187"  I'll have to try the Muir Glenn tomatoes.  Still curious as to how much sausage you're using on a 14".  --db

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Offline BTB

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Re: Malnati Deep Dish with Semolina
« Reply #335 on: October 11, 2010, 10:08:04 AM »
IMO the picture makes it look a little too thick, but if you're satisfied, that's what's important and like I said that's minor.  I often don't use all the dough that a formulation provides for. As for sausage (or even most toppings), I am not good at measuring how much I used and that hasn't been a priority to me.  I "eye-ball" amounts of toppings a lot and I think most people do after getting a lot of experience under their belt.  After the dough is pressed in (and I am assured it's not too thick and dispose of too much dough), then the cheese, and then I spread the sausage out much like has been seen on all the Malnati videos.  And then further dress the pizza.  Over time, I'm sure you will try things in various different ways and settle on what you and your's like the best.
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Offline dbgtr

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Re: Malnati Deep Dish with Semolina
« Reply #336 on: October 11, 2010, 10:14:14 AM »
BTB, which photo?  I haven't posted any in a while.  Here's an older pic.  It's not your recipe, and its too much dough.


Offline BTB

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Re: Malnati Deep Dish with Semolina
« Reply #337 on: October 11, 2010, 10:29:58 AM »
David, you are absolutely right.  I'm having a difficult morning.  I guess I got mix up with some pictures above from others.  Now I'm not certain whose I'm talking about.  My bad.  I better go do some yard work.  BTW, nice guitars on your site.  Unfortunately my Martin D-35 is collecting dust, but was used a lot in my former Oklahoma City days some years ago.

Offline JConk007

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Re: Malnati Deep Dish with Semolina
« Reply #338 on: October 11, 2010, 09:52:06 PM »
compl3x
looks good were you satified with the cheese? Did it  melt through what type is it ? still looks a bit firm in sidecut pic? or just deceiving?
Where abouts are you located I am in B county NJ and you mentioned Nanuet what was that 1?
thanks john
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Offline c0mpl3x

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Re: Malnati Deep Dish with Semolina
« Reply #339 on: October 12, 2010, 03:05:04 AM »
cheese was fully melted.  giant eagle part skim mozz it's 3.47/lb but the BEST mozz ive EVER had. i vaca'd in nanuet.  i live north of pittsburgh
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