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Author Topic: Malnati Deep Dish with Semolina  (Read 282895 times)

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Offline JConk007

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Re: Malnati Deep Dish with Semolina
« Reply #380 on: November 09, 2010, 07:42:28 PM »
Man those look good. Love that size . What is the finished weight of 1 of those beauties?  I am neapolitaned out and craving the deep dish now after viewing that cross cut shot! I am having flashbacks Bob! I am goning to oder a few Malnatis pies and tomatoes from Lou only becuase I have free money in  the paypal account from ebay "Junk" so I though I ould splurge for a to me, from me, love gift,.  Oh bye the way  this "Junk" from deep within the closets is also paying for my new Bosch Universal PLus!!  ;D
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Offline Mick.Chicago

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Re: Malnati Deep Dish with Semolina
« Reply #381 on: November 09, 2010, 08:26:55 PM »
Man those look good. Love that size . What is the finished weight of 1 of those beauties?  I am neapolitaned out and craving the deep dish now after viewing that cross cut shot! I am having flashbacks Bob! I am goning to oder a few Malnatis pies and tomatoes from Lou only becuase I have free money in  the paypal account from ebay "Junk" so I though I ould splurge for a to me, from me, love gift,.  Oh bye the way  this "Junk" from deep within the closets is also paying for my new Bosch Universal PLus!!  ;D
John

Please order a Sausage and tell us the ingredients!  I have no need to go to Lou's even though it's a mere mile away but I can't really just walk in and dig around in their refrigerator to look at the to go pies!

Heck if I was that cheeky I'd go in and grab a pan! 

Offline norma427

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Re: Malnati Deep Dish with Semolina
« Reply #382 on: November 09, 2010, 10:38:48 PM »
BTB,

I am glad you had good results using the durum flour.  :)  I recently used the durum flour as part of the formula in the Tartine Country bread and also had decent results.

Norma

Offline juniorballoon

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Re: Malnati Deep Dish with Semolina
« Reply #383 on: November 29, 2010, 02:34:42 PM »
Hello All,

New guy here. I used this recipe for my first deep dish pizza and I think they came out pretty good. My biggest problem was too much moisture from the tomatoes. The bottoms were cooked, but a bit soggy. I used some whole marzanos that I broke up by hand. I added a bit of the juice. Next time I won't add juice and will drain them a bit in a screen. Still very tasty.

I have been making pasta for a couple of years and have been incorporating more and more semolina. I now do a 50 50 mix of KAAP and semolina. Although I've never done it with pizza dough it was a natural progression and will try this when making regular thin crust pizza.

One thing I am not big on...yet... is weighing all the ingredients. I do have a couple of scales. One for doing less than a gram  and another for larger amounts. I tried to use the Deep-Dish calculator and quickly got confused. Is there a tutorial for it?

Great site, great info, will surely lead to great pizza!

Thanks,
jb

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Re: Malnati Deep Dish with Semolina
« Reply #384 on: November 29, 2010, 02:45:43 PM »
One thing I am not big on...yet... is weighing all the ingredients. I do have a couple of scales. One for doing less than a gram  and another for larger amounts. I tried to use the Deep-Dish calculator and quickly got confused. Is there a tutorial for it?

jb,

See http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,4931.msg41756.html#msg41756. You should be aware that the tool cannot handle multiple flours easily, such as apportioning the total flour blend among different flours, like all-purpose flour and semolina flour. The math for that has to be done offline along the lines as discussed and shown by BTB in this thread.

Peter
« Last Edit: November 29, 2010, 02:48:55 PM by Pete-zza »

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Online Pete-zza

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Re: Malnati Deep Dish with Semolina
« Reply #385 on: November 29, 2010, 02:55:35 PM »
One thing I am not big on...yet... is weighing all the ingredients. I do have a couple of scales. One for doing less than a gram  and another for larger amounts.

jb,

My practice for normal amounts of dough is to weigh only the flour and water and, if a lot of oil is called for, I will weigh that. For all of the other ingredients, I use the volume measurements given by the deep-dish dough calculating tool.

Peter

Offline BTB

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Re: Malnati Deep Dish with Semolina
« Reply #386 on: November 30, 2010, 10:12:09 AM »
Hey JB, welcome to the site.  I, too, wish there was a nice tutorial for use of the pizza calculator tools, but keep trying and trying and then it will be second nature to you.  Peter's link is a good start.  Once learned -- and I at least think it's easy-- you will have a super quick and simple way to calculate all the recipes in any size, thickness or type within seconds or minutes.  I, like Peter, just generally use the weights for flours, water and oil (or other large ingredient amounts), but use the tsp or Tbsp additions for the tiny amounts of ingredients like salt, ADY, etc.  That's "close enough."  Weights are the general rule in Europe, as I understand -- not that Europe is a model for much of anything these days, though.

I've found that for Chicago Style deep dish pizzas that draining the tomatoes for 10 to 20 minutes is a must, but they get too dry if done much longer.   Also, make sure your not using a "fresh" or wet mozzarella cheese as that can cause a lot of undesirable juice that creates a lot of sogginess.  For thin crust pizzas, however, I use the great Pastenes, Escalon's 6 in 1, and many others straight out of the can (along with some additives here and there).

Please keep us in step with all your trials and successes.

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Offline JConk007

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Re: Malnati Deep Dish with Semolina
« Reply #387 on: November 30, 2010, 10:36:44 AM »
I am very curious as to who is doing the producing/canning of the Lou Malnatins Tomatoes  (california co?)??? Sure they must be produced by someone and just using the label ? Kinda Like the Ciao and Sinatra label for the San Marzano's  Exact same tomato different can. I'm sure  Mr. Malnati  does not have  a Garden That big right ?
John
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Offline BTB

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Re: Malnati Deep Dish with Semolina
« Reply #388 on: November 30, 2010, 11:02:26 AM »
I truly don't know, John, but maybe others will have some other thoughts or knowledge.  But I have to say that I don't remember having such great crushed tomatoes ever for use on a pizza.  They are so tasty and naturally sweet tasting that I can eat them straight from the container -- much like we've seen Marc Malnati on the TV shows eat the tomato pieces straight from his kitchen container -- and they are super delicous (and I don't normally like chunky tomatoes! !).  I maybe harbor a Malnati bias due to my experience and history with them, but these are a couple of the best photos showing the great tomato product on top of their pizza that I thoroughly enjoyed at their Lincolnwood, Illinois restaurant.                                  --BTB

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Re: Malnati Deep Dish with Semolina
« Reply #389 on: November 30, 2010, 11:10:47 AM »
John,

Loo mentioned San Benito, in California. It is a part of the Neil Jones Food Company (http://www.sanbenitofoods.com/nwpack/default.asp?session=7112654433). San Benito, along with Stanislaus and Escalon, use fresh-pack tomatoes. Earlier this year I spoke with a food broker in Dallas about the Malnati tomatoes and reported on my investigations at Reply 158 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=10161.msg94210#msg94210.

Peter

Edit (3/3/14): For a substitute link for the above inoperative sanbenitofoods.com link, see http://www.neiljonesfoodcompany.com/brand/san-benito/
« Last Edit: March 03, 2014, 11:21:04 AM by Pete-zza »

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Offline juniorballoon

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Re: Malnati Deep Dish with Semolina
« Reply #390 on: November 30, 2010, 03:11:24 PM »
Hey JB, welcome to the site.  I, too, wish there was a nice tutorial for use of the pizza calculator tools, but keep trying and trying and then it will be second nature to you.  Peter's link is a good start.  Once learned -- and I at least think it's easy-- you will have a super quick and simple way to calculate all the recipes in any size, thickness or type within seconds or minutes.  I, like Peter, just generally use the weights for flours, water and oil (or other large ingredient amounts), but use the tsp or Tbsp additions for the tiny amounts of ingredients like salt, ADY, etc.  That's "close enough."  Weights are the general rule in Europe, as I understand -- not that Europe is a model for much of anything these days, though.

I've found that for Chicago Style deep dish pizzas that draining the tomatoes for 10 to 20 minutes is a must, but they get too dry if done much longer.   Also, make sure your not using a "fresh" or wet mozzarella cheese as that can cause a lot of undesirable juice that creates a lot of sogginess.  For thin crust pizzas, however, I use the great Pastenes, Escalon's 6 in 1, and many others straight out of the can (along with some additives here and there).

Please keep us in step with all your trials and successes.

                                                                                    --BTB

Thanks for the welcome. I did eventually figure the calculator out. I only needed a couple of key bits of info, Thickness factor and Hydration percentage. I got the thickness factor from Pete-zaa (common numbers are 0.11 and 0.135) and figured out on my own that your recipe in the first post were all numbers that get entered into the calculator. Once I got that I could tweak it to get different results and the weights and measures.  But that was after I made these pies. I used 2 1/4 cups KAAP and 3/4 cup of semolina, 1 1/2 cups of water and 1/2 cup olive oil. I ended up with 3 dough balls. I used cake yeast. I find that if I'm going to make pizza in 4-6 hours the cake yeast gives me a better/faster rise. I like to get 2 punch downs, divide and make balls after the second and let those rise for a bit. I see that you guys often do an overnight in the fridge. I haven't tried that yet.

A few weeks back I roasted some canned whole tomatoes. Took them out and laid them on a cookie tray and let them slow cook for a few hours at 275. Next time I do deep dish I'm going to use that method. Reserve a bit of the juice in case they get to dry. It gave them a nice sweet carmelized flavor.

jb

Offline BobBill

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Re: Malnati Deep Dish with Semolina
« Reply #391 on: December 06, 2010, 08:37:16 AM »
I mentioned in the Malnati thread that I recently had an excellent deep dish pizza at a local pizzeria that used semolina flour to some extent in their crust, which was very tasty and flavorful along with a nice light crunch.  So I went about making a small 9" deep dish pizza this past weekend to see how it would turn out using some semolina in the flour mixture.  Peter had indicated that Tom Lehmann recommended a general maximum of 25% semolina of the total flour blend, but that some others had gone as high as 50%. I just settled on 15% in this initial experiment.
 
Using King Arthur AP and Bob's Red Mill semolina, the formulation that I used, with a 1.5% bowl residue, was as follows:
 
Flour ***  (100%):  161.71 g  |  5.7 oz | 0.36 lbs
Water (47%):  89.42 g  |  3.15 oz | 0.2 lbs
ADY (.6%):  1.14 g | 0.04 oz | 0 lbs | 0.3 tsp | 0.1 tbsp
Salt (.5%):  0.95 g | 0.03 oz | 0 lbs | 0.17 tsp | 0.06 tbsp
Olive Oil (5%):  9.51 g | 0.34 oz | 0.02 lbs | 2.11 tsp | 0.7 tbsp
Corn Oil (18%):  34.24 g | 1.21 oz | 0.08 lbs | 7.61 tsp | 2.54 tbsp
Butter/Margarine (1%):  1.9 g | 0.07 oz | 0 lbs | 0.4 tsp | 0.13 tbsp
Semolina (15%):  28.54 g | 1.01 oz | 0.06 lbs | 8.2 tsp | 2.73 tbsp
Total (187.1%): 355.95 g | 12.56 oz | 0.78 lbs | TF = 0.126875

 
    ***Using the deep-dish dough calculation tool, the flour (in this case KAAP) came out to
             "Flour (100%):  190.25 g  |  6.71 oz | 0.42 lbs," but per Peter's suggestion, you need to deduct
             the amount of semolina to ensure a proper balance of flour in total.
 
I mixed the semolina and salt with the KAAP, but withheld 1/4 cup of the KAAP.  I added the water with the previously proofed ADY, mixed with a wooden spoon and by hand, covered and let rest for around 25 minutes in a warm part of the kitchen.  Then I added the rest of the flour along with the oil and the small amount of melted and cooled butter.  After kneading for a very short time (est. 1 min.), I found I needed a teaspoon or two more of KAAP, and then put the formed dough ball into a ziplock bag and into the refrigerator for 24 hours.
 
I took the cooled dough ball out the next day about 1 and 1/2 hours before baking to let it warm up.  I've found at other times that cold dough did not bake very well, or at least not to my liking, so I think it's important to let the dough get to room temperature before baking.  I put the dough ball into my previously oiled 9" deep dish Chicago Metallic pan with 2" high straight-sides.  Patting it out flat by hand, I tried especially to crimp or pinch the edges of the crust very hard to give the crust a nice real thin edge, as opposed to a thicker or fatter rim that sometimes occurs, especially when using a lot of yeast.  The Malnati's, Due's and Pizano's pizzas that I used to enjoy always had that crimped thin, crisp rim around the pizza unlike the thicker rim that existed at Gino's East, Uno's franchises, and other places.
 
I then put in a layer of sliced Mozzarella cheese, then added some provolone cheese pieces, then a sausage "patty" that I made from a couple of links of specialty Italian sausage.  See Pics below.


Appreciate the addition of the different measuring in above in green, but I have

a question. 

I have no trouble with weighing ingredients out but I know few who do it unless making dough by many pounds and even some of those used gross measurments, by the can etc.

Would it be easier to note recipe in cups (C) of flour and teaspoons etc. Why make it difficult, when we all knead to texture and feel?
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Online Pete-zza

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Re: Malnati Deep Dish with Semolina
« Reply #392 on: December 06, 2010, 09:59:45 AM »
Would it be easier to note recipe in cups (C) of flour and teaspoons etc. Why make it difficult, when we all knead to texture and feel?

BobBill,

You may be interested in knowing that there is a Mass-Volume Conversion Calculator at http://foodsim.toastguard.com/ that allows one to convert weights of certain brands of flours (in the pulldown menu) to volume measurements based on how one measures out the flours (Measurement Method). Such conversions are a convenient starting point from where you can finish the dough by texture and feel. Semolina flour isn't covered by the tool so you would have to use the manufacturer's data to do conversions or you can use the data on semolina at the SelfNutritionData website at http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/cereal-grains-and-pasta/5731/2.

Peter

Offline dbgtr

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Re: Malnati Deep Dish with Semolina
« Reply #393 on: December 07, 2010, 04:35:09 PM »
BTB, I've been trying to gauge the amount of tomatos I use (as I've remarked in the past) and noticed something interesting:  when I see the photos from Lou Malnati's pies, they have less tomato than your beautiful pies do (or at least appear to have less) and are baked lighter than I typically go, and yet neither of you have problems with moisture.  About how many cups of tomatos would one want to use on a 14" pie?

Offline loowaters

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Re: Malnati Deep Dish with Semolina
« Reply #394 on: December 08, 2010, 06:01:45 AM »
Those promotional photos for Tastes of Chicago or Lou to Go are no indicator of how the pies really look.  We've had the light color discussion before here http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,7594.0.html  Check out BTB's pics in reply #388.  Those pics are what you're shooting for.

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Offline BTB

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Re: Malnati Deep Dish with Semolina
« Reply #395 on: December 09, 2010, 11:09:42 AM »
I've been trying to gauge the amount of tomatos I use (as I've remarked in the past) and noticed something interesting:  when I see the photos from Lou Malnati's pies, they have less tomato than your beautiful pies do (or at least appear to have less) and are baked lighter than I typically go, and yet neither of you have problems with moisture.  About how many cups of tomatos would one want to use on a 14" pie?
David,

I've eaten at Lou Malnati's pizza restaurants literally hundreds of times and more than any other pizza place that I've visited in my lifetime.  The pictures that I took at Malnati's original and flagship Lincolnwood restaurant shown above in Reply #388 is typical of the amount of tomatoes on a deep dish pizza enjoyed at their restaurants.

You didn't say where you saw those photos, but I suspect its from their many mailings about "Taste of Chicago" products that I receive every other week in the mail from them.  For some inexplicable reason, the pictures of the pizzas in those and other Malnati's advertisements, or promotional shots given for media use, always shows an "atypical" picture of the pizza from what one would normally experience in their restaurants.  I have no explanation other than what some others have given, like it looks better for advertising or promotional purposes.  When we receive the mailings, I and others familiar with their great pizzas just shake our heads in amazement when viewing the photos of the pizzas in the mailings ("that's not how it looks in the restaurant" we would say).  Maybe a cheese pizza doesn't have as much of their tomatoes on it, but others typically do.

Also the color of the pizza crust in those advertisements or media photos likewise is greatly unusual and atypical.  I have rarely been served a pizza at their restaurants with such a light -- almost white -- color as most of those photos show.  I think the specialty flash from the professional photographers contributes to that.  But if one wants less tomatoes and a lighter colored crust on their home made deep dish, that is easily achievable.  But if one wants to make a pizza at home that is typical of a deep dish pizza served at their restaurants, put more tomatoes than in those pictures and cook a little longer, but that's a personal preference.

I don't keep good track of the amount of tomato sauce that I put on any size pizza (I'm sorry to say), but I always use a 28 oz. can and will estimate (or guesstimate) that for a 14" diameter deep dish, I would have put from 15 to 22 oz. of tomatoes.  I truly go by sight and never use "cups" as a measurement.  If you don't have the Malnati's brand, suggest use of 6 in 1's or comparable and some good small diced tomatoes to supplement the crushed tomatoes (both drained from 10 to 20 minutes to avoid moisture).  That comes close to Chicago Style deep dish pizzas.

When in Chicago a few months back, several of us enjoyed the large-size deep dish pizza that I photographed below at their northwest suburban Buffalo Grove restaurant. 

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« Last Edit: December 09, 2010, 02:47:58 PM by BTB »

Offline BTB

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Re: Malnati Deep Dish with Semolina
« Reply #396 on: December 09, 2010, 11:31:07 AM »
I have no trouble with weighing ingredients out but I know few who do it unless making dough by many pounds and even some of those used gross measurments, by the can etc.

Would it be easier to note recipe in cups (C) of flour and teaspoons etc. Why make it difficult, when we all knead to texture and feel?

Am not sure how to answer here.  Are you saying that measuring by weights makes it more difficult? ?  If that's what you mean, I think you'll have a big difference of opinion from many here.  I think measuring by weight makes pizzamaking much, much easier than by volume (other than tsp and tbsp).  For instance, I don't remember the diameter of the pizza in the formulation that you quoted, but let's assume it was for a 9" and someone wanted to follow that formulation for a 12" diameter pizza.  With the use of the weight measuring tools on this website, one could determine the recipe or formulation in "seconds" and not fumble around with cups and fractions of cups of ingredients.  And as you know, a cup to one is often different than a cup to another.

I know what you mean about texture and feel, but that's an extremely personal thing that's difficult or hard to describe and teach to others who want first to follow a specific recipe.  But by all means, if volume measurement is what you've experienced as the best method, one should continue that.

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Offline tylerloder

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Re: Malnati Deep Dish with Semolina
« Reply #397 on: December 12, 2010, 02:59:50 PM »
What does everyone think of using a lower temperature, such as 385-410 degrees for a longer period of time when using fresh whole milk mozzarella?  Would this ensure more evaporation, or would it probably not make a difference?  Thoughts? Opinions?

Offline Pizzacrazy7

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Re: Malnati Deep Dish with Semolina
« Reply #398 on: December 15, 2010, 07:25:03 PM »
Does anyone have this recipe using IDY instead of ADY?  I'd like to try it out this winter.
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Offline loowaters

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Re: Malnati Deep Dish with Semolina
« Reply #399 on: December 15, 2010, 08:34:38 PM »
Does anyone have this recipe using IDY instead of ADY?  I'd like to try it out this winter.

Just reduce the yeast amount by 1/3.  Original post calls for .6% ADY, make that .4% IDY.  This ratio can be used for any type of bread, I think.

Loo
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