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Author Topic: Malnati Deep Dish with Semolina  (Read 282896 times)

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Offline clg763

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Re: Malnati Deep Dish with Semolina
« Reply #420 on: February 01, 2011, 10:58:20 AM »
I would say it is pretty much imperative to rotate the pizzas in any oven, I was just baking a batch of my pizzas at a friend's house who has a top of the line Jenn Air electric convection oven. Even with the convect feature on, I still had to rotate the pizzas from side to side and front to back to get an even bake. If you think about it, a convection oven will speed up the baking process because of the fact that there is more air moving over the pizza and it is therefore able to impart more heat to it faster. However, there are still currents of warm air and cooler air as it moves through its cycle. The only way to fix this that I can think would be some sort of oscillating fan but I have yet to see an oven with this feature.

As for the blackened pans, vcb is absolutely correct, this is due to the fact that the black color absorbs all visible wavelengths of light (hence the black color) this even extends below the range of human acuity to the infrared frequencies. If you had a pair of IR goggles on, you would see your oven emitting a glow of dull red from all of its hot surfaces. This energy would be directly absorbed if the pan were black, a shiny pan however refracts most of the light, giving it its shiny appearance. This is why cakes bake so well in the shiny pans with essentially no browning at all. A simple coat of oil and a long bake at high heat are all that is needed to permanently season those pans to a beautiful black that knows how to cook pizzas right.

I have never had too much a problem getting a crunch from my pizza, fallow a few simple rules and I can guarantee you will have it. First, you do have to have a good dough recipe with enough oil, putting a coat on the pan helps out tremendously. Having a black pan cooking on the bottom rack is also essential to guaranteeing good browning. Lastly, it can also come down to the moisture content of your ingredients, a lot of wet veggies/meat/sauce can really make your pizza soggy as it bakes. I had a 9" pie cook for over an hour at 425 and it still never crisped on the edges.

Personally, I would like to experiment a little bit with steam impingement on my pizzas. I have done this with breads and it gives the best thin flaky crust with a soft interior. How it would work on deep dish, I don't know but I'd love to try it someday.

Offline doughboy55

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Re: Malnati Deep Dish with Semolina
« Reply #421 on: February 01, 2011, 11:55:42 AM »
I guess i will be buying a new pan, but on the other note i have a electric oven with a top temp of 525 and a convention oven feature. I will keep you updated on my pizza adventures and I am looking forward to experimenting to make the best pizza i can possibly make. Thanks for all the great suggestions too, much appreciated.
-Happy Baking
Matthew

Offline BTB

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Re: Malnati Deep Dish with Semolina
« Reply #422 on: February 01, 2011, 12:47:06 PM »
Matt, FWIW while there are many good brand pans out there (Chicago Metallic at your local Bed, Bath and Beyond), among the best I think are the PSTK dark coated pans from Pizzatools.com (aka Lloyd Industries). And many others that can be suggested, but generally available by ordering over the internet only, but still the best.  Best to wait for the week for delivery.

And consider . . . just consider . . . instead of or in lieu of a big 14" pan getting a combination of some smaller sized pans (some for the kids and some for us and . . . ).  Most who contacted me regret getting too large a pan as smaller ones later met their needs better.

For Super Bowl Sunday, I looked back at some photos of past pizzas and here is "one of the best."  I'm licking my chops and planning on doing it again for the Packers and the Steelers.  Go . . . er . . . Bears? ? Oh, well.

                                                                                   --BTB
« Last Edit: February 01, 2011, 12:52:24 PM by BTB »

Offline clg763

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Re: Malnati Deep Dish with Semolina
« Reply #423 on: February 01, 2011, 01:05:27 PM »
Personally, I just buy cheap cake pans from a restaurant supply store and season them black. I have had to collect a lot of pans to cover some of the events I do and this really keeps the costs down. I spend around $4-$6 for a pan, today I have over 30 of them in my collection (from 6"-16") and they only cost me about $150 total. They are very well made and stack fine due to the different sizes, If you want to go a lot of pans and just one size, stackable pans are definitely the way to go.

Offline doughboy55

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Re: Malnati Deep Dish with Semolina
« Reply #424 on: February 01, 2011, 02:55:08 PM »
Yes i do plan on buying a smaller 9 inch pan or a 12 because the 14 inch pizza is a lot of pizza. I ate a couple of slices and i was full for the entire day. Oh and btw the tomatoes i used were a 28 ounce Italian import but the brand name is slipping my mind right now. Now in retrospect i liked the pizza with not as much tomatoes anyways, and to answer your second question the only deep dish pizza i have had was in San Diego 2 weeks ago when i was on vacation. The place was named Lefty's my Uncle knew the owner and was a pretty nice guy. He grew up in Chicago in an Italian persons house ( i think he was adopted by the family) and he was taught the recipe and then ended up "perfecting" it in his kitchen and then ended up moving out there and opening two very successful pizzerias.
http://www.yelp.com/biz/leftys-chicago-pizzeria-san-diego-3
It was pretty damn good, I believe he uses corn flour in his recipe.

That deep dish you made on the super bowl looks damn good.

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Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Malnati Deep Dish with Semolina
« Reply #425 on: February 02, 2011, 09:00:40 AM »
If you want to go a lot of pans and just one size, stackable pans are definitely the way to go.

clg763,

In the context of storage of lots of pans, did you mean "nestable" rather than "stackable"? Apparently, pan producers draw a distinction, as evidenced by http://www.pizzatools.com/Deep_Dish_Stacking/30873/subgrouping.htm and http://www.pizzatools.com/Deep_Dish_Nesting/30872/subgrouping.htm.

Peter

Offline clg763

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Re: Malnati Deep Dish with Semolina
« Reply #426 on: February 02, 2011, 10:27:28 AM »
Either one is preferable to a standard pan when you have a lot of them in a particular size, nestable pans are the ideal I suppose. Personally I haven't used either before so I can't comment on their usability or performance. Since I have a bunch in 6" 7" 9" 10" 12" 14" and 16" the normal style fits in a similar space since I just put each pan inside the next and stack the groups.

Offline dbgtr

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Re: Malnati Deep Dish with Semolina
« Reply #427 on: February 20, 2011, 11:27:07 PM »
I normally use a pair of 14" Chicago Metallic pans I got years ago.  They are not the commercial weight pans that are available now.  They're well worn, but after a recent experiment where I made a pair of 9" in some Williams-Sonoma cake pans, I'm going to order some of the American Metal Craft pans.  There was a huge difference in the quality of my pies -- more even cooking, they baked off their moisture more efficiently resulting in both a crisp crust and a moist but not soggy interior.  Much better results.

Offline DL

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Re: Malnati Deep Dish with Semolina
« Reply #428 on: February 24, 2011, 09:17:53 PM »
Hi everyone.  First time poster - long time baker.  I would like to extend a huge thanks to BTB for his awesome work in this thread.  Disclaimer: I have never had a Malnati pizza.  In fact I rarely have deep dish.  Other than a pizza at Uno (few and far between) and one deep dish from a Chicago Nancy's chain I don't know much about them.  Well I spent a few days formulating what approach I wanted to take, I found this thread, and my finished product was amazing (not just because I made it).  The biggest problem I had was getting the darn pie out of the pan.  I let it cool for a few min before attempting to take it out of the pan (it even retraced a bit away from the edge of the pan) but it just did not want to cooperate.  After breaking/cracking part of the crust gave up until more than half was gone.  Not sure if the dough was too dry or brittle or if it was just bad luck. . .felt like a rookie.  Anyway I'll list the %'s below.  (I used the deep dish calculator for help with the calculations - it worked great - THANKS!)

DOUGH:
Flour 100% - I used 22% semolina calculated outside the deep dish tool
Water 47%
Salt .5%
Olive Oil 5%
Canola Oil 12%
Butter 2.5%
Shortening 2.5%
Sugar 1.5%
Cream of Tartar .5%
TOTAL 172.3%

SAUCE: Coarse crushed tomatoes with salt, oil, and spices

Baked in a 9" x 2" Chicago Metallic cake pan - 450 for about 22 min or so.

I adjusted the oil %'s trying to keep the oil level high while at the same time trying to create a "light" tasting dough.  I think I hit it out of the park.  The salt and sugar gave it just enough of a flavor.  I decided to up the butter % aiming for more butter flavor - not sure if I went high enough for that.  Finally, I decided to include the shortening hoping to create a lighter tasting flavor while ensuring it was still flaky/crumbly.  Again - not much experience from eating out - but I think the results were amazing.  I was more than happy with the end product.  I'm looking forward to hearing from you all.

The pictures and post were an afterthought.  They don't really do the product justice.
« Last Edit: February 24, 2011, 09:19:50 PM by DL »

Offline ksmama08

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Re: Malnati Deep Dish with Semolina
« Reply #429 on: February 25, 2011, 08:24:12 AM »
I have seen many people mention a deep dish calculator. I have not been able to find the calculator. Would someone mind posting the link for it?

Thanks

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Offline BTB

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Re: Malnati Deep Dish with Semolina
« Reply #430 on: February 25, 2011, 08:31:45 AM »

Offline ksmama08

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Re: Malnati Deep Dish with Semolina
« Reply #431 on: February 25, 2011, 08:42:07 AM »
Thank you so much, it is exactly what I was looking for.

Offline BTB

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Re: Malnati Deep Dish with Semolina
« Reply #432 on: February 25, 2011, 09:06:42 AM »
Nice job and welcome to the site, DL.  "Extraction" -- not to use the dreaded dental term -- of a baked pizza from a deep dish pan can sometimes be an issue, but for me has only been so with larger size pans, like 12" diameter and above.  But with a little practice (and maybe unfortunately some difficult spills) even the large pans can be worked with nicely.  But for 9" pans and smaller, I generally have no problems.  Hopefully there was enough oil or crisco in the pan under the crust so the crust doesn't stick to it, but if it did, use of a number kitchen devices can help in loosening it up.  I like to use a small "frosting" spatula moving it under the crust and around 360 degrees so you know the pizza is freed up from the pan.  Check out the tool I mentioned in the posting above at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,6480.msg116670.html#msg116670 .  And tapered-sided pans are a little easier to get the pizza out and onto the cutting board, but many of us still prefer the traditional straight-sided pans.

Good luck and hope you continue to enjoy making some great pizzas.

                                                                                 --BTB          :D

Offline DL

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Re: Malnati Deep Dish with Semolina
« Reply #433 on: February 25, 2011, 12:45:58 PM »
Thanks BTB.  The crust/pan performed beautifully.  As the pizza cooled it behaved nicely (as it should) by retreating from the sided of the pan and there was no sticking involved anywhere.  I think it was more of a equipment issue but who knows - the only way to fix it is to make more pizza  ;D  I checked out the other thread.  Where did you get that wonderful spatula?  That is exactly what I am looking for. 

I have been inundated reading through the threads and lost track of who is using what formulation when.  Did I see you currently using rice flour?  Or currently durum in addition to the AP?  What are your thoughts on those?

Offline fireman117

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Re: Malnati Deep Dish with Semolina
« Reply #434 on: March 06, 2011, 12:24:01 PM »
Hi,
I'm giving this recipe a try based on BTB's #16 post. I used the deep dish calculator for a 10 inch pie, and made the adjustment for the 20% semolina. I weighed all the ingredients carefully on a gram scale, but something does not seem right.  There was so much oil I couldn't knead it all in. I had about a teaspoon left even after I added a teaspoon or so more flour. The dough ball is very wet with oil. So the question is, is this normal? To me this doesn't look right, but this is my first attempt so I don't have anything to compare it to.  I hope someone out there could take a look at the numbers I have from the calculator and advise me before I go ahead and make the pie tonight.

Flour 100% 249.7 g - 49.94 for the semolina =199.76g
Semolina 20%  49.94 g
H2O 47% 117.36
IDY .75% 1.87g
NaCl .5% 1.25g
Olive Oil 5% 12.48g
Corn Oil  18% 44.95g
Butter 1% 2.5 g
Total 172.25% 430.11g
TF .1288
Thank you very much
Eric

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Offline BTB

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Re: Malnati Deep Dish with Semolina
« Reply #435 on: March 06, 2011, 01:53:43 PM »
Eric, I took a real quick look at your numbers and even tho you had a few differences (like IDY vs ADY and am uncertain if you accounted for bowl residue), your numbers are definitely in the ball park  Regarding whether your experience is "right" is hard to say.  The mixture often -- but not too often -- is a little oily and all are encouraged to add a little flour at a time to get to a dough that isn't excessively oily.  But the fact is that Chicago Deep Dish pizza is indeed one that has a lot of oil in it.  That's a given.  Sometimes we add a little more oil or water than we think, but who knows.  Use some more bench flour when spreading or rolling out the dough to fit the deep dish pan and let us know how things turned out.

                                                                                   --BTB


Offline fireman117

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Re: Malnati Deep Dish with Semolina
« Reply #436 on: March 06, 2011, 04:27:46 PM »
BTB,
Thanks for the good news. I'm going to try it out tonight, and I'll let you know how it comes out. I just took the dough out of the fridge and it looks much better today. Hopefully it will cooperate when I roll it out.
Also, I did use a 1.5% bowl residue, I just forgot to list it.

Thanks,
Eric

Offline loowaters

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Re: Malnati Deep Dish with Semolina
« Reply #437 on: March 06, 2011, 05:51:35 PM »
Eric, for best results, don't roll it!  Pat it out in the pan and pinch it up the sides.

Loo
Using pizza to expand my waistline since 1969!

Offline BTB

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Re: Malnati Deep Dish with Semolina
« Reply #438 on: March 06, 2011, 07:47:25 PM »
Eric, below is a picture of the dough in the pans for two small deep dish pizzas that I made a week or so ago.  The one on the left is a 7" diameter pan and the one on the right is a 6".  I don't know if you can notice it from the picture, but there is just a little sheen from the oil, but not much.  Matter of fact, the dough is fairly stiff and stays up nicely when pinched up against the edge of the pan without any problem.  The formulation that I used was a little different from that mentioned earlier and was as follows:

Flour (100%)
Water (45%)
ADY (.6%)
Salt (1%)
Olive Oil (6%)  
Corn Oil (12%)  
Butter/Margarine (6%)
Sugar (1.5%)  
TF = 0.111

You can vary or eliminate the butter if one wants.  Substitute with some oil or shortening if desired, but I wouldn't recommend going over 22% with the oil anymore.  Matter of fact, I'm even backing up to 20% or so often times.  I've come 180 degrees around on how to introduce the butter to the dough mixture, too, having done melted and cooled butter for so long.  I've found using melted butter does often leads to a little more oily dough and I now add super softened butter to the dough mixture instead.  One then needs to be careful to avoid overworking the dough in order to incorporate the butter, but I've found it best not to worry about fully incorporating all the butter anyway.

Yes, I never roll out the dough for a deep dish pizza, but I press it out first a little on the counter, then the remainder in the pan and like Loo said pinch it up the sides.  For those with not too much experience with deep dish pizzamaking, I recommend using Crisco on the bottom of the pan (not the sides).  Use of olive oil, which I slightly prefer, is a little trickier to use (in the sense of avoiding the oil running up the sides of the pan as you press the dough into the pan and having the oil running out onto the dough skin).

Hope your pizza went well.  Remember its a learning curve.

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« Last Edit: March 06, 2011, 07:54:15 PM by BTB »

Offline BTB

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Re: Malnati Deep Dish with Semolina
« Reply #439 on: March 06, 2011, 07:51:58 PM »
Oh, here's a picture of one of those great tasting pizzas that got devoured in a short period of time.   On both I put too much mozzarella cheese under the sauce, but many would say . . . "you can never have enough cheese! !"  Hope you share with us some pictures in the future as we always like to see others winners and even losers from time to time.

                                                                             --BTB

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