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Author Topic: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!  (Read 934339 times)

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Offline kurbanlikkedi

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Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #3140 on: May 02, 2017, 08:24:30 PM »
I have tasted various lionello pizzas, great dough but often poor toppings, especially those made from meat (he is vegan). Always in caserta there is the pizzeria sas Martucci and Pizzeria Elite (Pasqualino Rossi)wich in my opinion make a much better and balanced pizzas between dough and toppings

i see its really the dough that i like..

Offline Icelandr

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Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #3141 on: May 02, 2017, 11:34:51 PM »
Just out of curiosity . . . While the debate/info exchange is informative, I wonder why it exists here under Omid's thread, rather than  under the correspondents threads or new. There were about 150 pages of exchanges previously and thread linking them, just my take . . . .

Offline Black_One

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Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #3142 on: August 30, 2017, 07:29:33 AM »
Hey guys, can someone please explain to me the "hydration" when it comes to dough.

Let's say 60% hydration.

If you're using 1000g of flour ("00" caputo)

60% of hydration is 600g of water that needs to be added to the dough, or am I getting this completely wrong.

-----

Also, so far I've been experimenting with both dry yeast & fresh one. Still, none produced the airiness and the crust (no leopard spotting too) after baking. Is poolish the right way to do it ?

Could anyone refer me to a page in this thread with a good dough to start training with ? I've scrolled through all 155+ pages, and just got myself more confused.

-----

P.S. I'm doing all this in a small kitchen in Thailand, which is very hot & humid - and I reckon, this is killing all my good results.

Please help out folks. Beer's on me :)

Thanks in advance. 
« Last Edit: August 30, 2017, 07:58:24 AM by Black_One »

Offline Pirmin1996

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Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #3143 on: September 05, 2017, 11:51:43 AM »
Hey guys, can someone please explain to me the "hydration" when it comes to dough.

Let's say 60% hydration.

If you're using 1000g of flour ("00" caputo)

60% of hydration is 600g of water that needs to be added to the dough, or am I getting this completely wrong.

-----

Also, so far I've been experimenting with both dry yeast & fresh one. Still, none produced the airiness and the crust (no leopard spotting too) after baking. Is poolish the right way to do it ?

Could anyone refer me to a page in this thread with a good dough to start training with ? I've scrolled through all 155+ pages, and just got myself more confused.

-----

P.S. I'm doing all this in a small kitchen in Thailand, which is very hot & humid - and I reckon, this is killing all my good results.

Please help out folks. Beer's on me :)

Thanks in advance.

exactly. it would be 600 ml of Water per 1000 gr of flour
in my opinion there is no difference between dry and fresh yeast its all the same strain of yeast but the dry one is compressed and has a longer shelf life.

the airiness you want to get is a thing everyone struggels in the beginning.
Maby your dough is not fully matured?

Polish is a very good way to get a more light crust.

Leoparding is hard to achive with most ovens. What Kind of oven are you using?
Whats its max temp.

respect the craft

Offline robertscalchi

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Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #3144 on: September 06, 2017, 01:29:18 PM »
In theory and some proof. The higher the hydration the airier and lighter the connicione is. Generaly your target for a good neopolitan crust is 62% to 68%. 70% or higher makes a wonderful light and airy crumb and cornicione. But you have to develop a little skill handling dough that wet with a spatula and a scrapper to initially ball it until you put a skin on it that allows you to hold and fold it in your hands. As far as visual leoparding. As Don Luigi, TX Craig and others have mentioned on here. Leoparding occurs when the dough is put in the oven cold or usually below 55 deg F and baked anywhere between 750 and 900. Leoparding is an ocurrenance of a chilled dough being baked. Try it for yourself and experiement.

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Offline Icelandr

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Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #3145 on: September 06, 2017, 08:49:42 PM »



"Just out of curiosity . . . While the debate/info exchange is informative, I wonder why it exists here under Omid's thread, rather than  under the correspondents threads or new. There were about 150 pages of exchanges previously and thread linking them, just my take . . . ."

Offline Pizza Napoletana

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Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #3146 on: September 20, 2017, 11:34:57 PM »
Hello, dear friends! It has been a long time since I actively participated in this forum. I truly miss interacting with you all. My partner (Wheelman) and I have been quite busy establishing a Neapolitan pizzeria in Cullman, Alabama. Allow me to invite your attention to my post at the following link:

https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=49548.0

Good day!

Omid

Recipes make pizzas no more than sermons make saints!

http://pizzanapoletanismo.com/2011/09/27/a-philosophy-of-pizza-napoletanismo/

Offline Icelandr

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Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #3147 on: September 21, 2017, 12:27:12 AM »
All the very Best to you in your new pursuit! I enjoyed and learned a great deal from your posts, the chances are about zero that our paths will cross but I wish you well in the new location, I hope you can post occasionally to let us know about the new business.

Offline rdbedwards

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Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #3148 on: October 12, 2017, 01:51:08 PM »
I just finished reading through this long and incredibly interesting thread.  I have a few questions and points to make, hoping that it will continue the interest in the information covered here.

1) When kneading the dough, air is being incorporated into it, which I believe the yeast uses to begin the fermentation, similar to when aerating the wort in beer making, where the yeast uses oxygen to produce unsaturated fatty acids (UFAs) and sterols, which make up the yeast cell walls.  The fermentation itself is an anaerobic process, but the yeast needs oxygen at the start of the process for the reasons above.  Is it correct to analogise the dough making process to brewing?  Both use beer yeast (s. cerevisiae), at least in part for sourdough and 100% in commercial yeast.

2) Is the purpose of separating the coals from the logs in Omid's process to allow more oxygen to the logs, which would otherwise not get as much if sitting directly on the coals?  Is the purpose to provide more heat?

3) Does anyone know why the videos posted by Omid in this thread do not work, while the ones posted by others do?

4) If Omid can respond, I'm curious as to whether he brought his Forno Piccolo oven with him when relocating from CA to AL?  Also, what is his favourite pizza of all time?  One that he made at home or at Pizzeria Bruno perhaps?

Offline TXCraig1

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Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #3149 on: October 12, 2017, 02:06:09 PM »
As busy as Omid is, he may be slow to respond.  With respect to your Q1,2:

1) Beer and bread are very different in that with beer, the growth medium is a liquid and the natural convection will move the yeast to new sources of food and away from their waste products. This can't happen in dough because yeast are not motile. Also, I don't believe oxygen is "required" to begin fermentation. Yeast prefer aerobic respiration to fermentation because it is a much more efficient process, so they will use oxygen first if it is present.

2) It is to better balance the heat.
"We make great pizza, with sourdough when we can, baker's yeast when we must, but always great pizza."  
Craig's Neapolitan Garage

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Offline Pete-zza

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Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #3150 on: October 12, 2017, 02:14:44 PM »
3) Does anyone know why the videos posted by Omid in this thread do not work, while the ones posted by others do?
rbedwards,

Can you give me links to a few posts where Omid's videos did not work?

Peter

Offline rdbedwards

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Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #3151 on: October 12, 2017, 02:28:36 PM »
Here are a few examples of the videos not working:

Reply 1731:





Reply 1746:





Reply 2206:



Reply 2534:




Offline rdbedwards

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Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #3152 on: October 12, 2017, 02:33:05 PM »
Craig,

Great point about the motility difference for the yeast.  If air isn't needed, what do you think is the difference between no-knead doughs and those incorporating air via kneading?

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #3153 on: October 12, 2017, 02:56:48 PM »
rdedwards,

I went into each of the posts you mentioned where I found the actual links to the videos and played around with them to see if I could reach actual YouTube videos and, in each case, I got a message from YouTube "This video is unavailable". The videos may have started out as private videos and were later taken down, either intentionally or as a result of something that may have changed at YouTube itself after the videos were posted. If Omid appears, maybe he can solve the riddle.

Peter

Offline TXCraig1

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Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #3154 on: October 12, 2017, 04:08:58 PM »
Craig,

Great point about the motility difference for the yeast.  If air isn't needed, what do you think is the difference between no-knead doughs and those incorporating air via kneading?

I believe incorporating air is a good thing but more for texture than fermentation, but I can't answer that question. I don't know how much if the incorporated air can reabsorb back into the dough where the yeast can get to it.

Some types of mixers such as fork mixers can incorporate air like you can't imagine. You cut into the dough straight out of the mixer and it looks like it's already risen.
"We make great pizza, with sourdough when we can, baker's yeast when we must, but always great pizza."  
Craig's Neapolitan Garage

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Offline Pirmin1996

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Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #3155 on: November 05, 2017, 06:01:34 AM »
Anyone out the trying to make Neapolitan Pies in an electric oven?

My results from yesterday evening

Hydration on 62,5 %
Biga Method (18 h Biga 48 h final dough)
Bake Time: a little bit over 90 seconds


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