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Offline Mm2531

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Need help with my pizza dough
« on: November 08, 2021, 08:26:47 AM »
I made pizzas two days in a row, and they came out quite different.  I need help understanding why so that I can improve, as well as any advice on improving my dough making technique.

Here is my process:  Caputo Blue 00 flour (100%), filtered water (62% and at room temperature of 70 degrees), salt (2.9%), yeast: 0.16% (using Craig's spreadsheet as a starting point).  Everything measured using scales.  Dissolve salt into water, add 20-30% of the flour and mix, add yeast and rest of flour.  Use a danish whisk to mix the ingredients together, then let the dough rest for 15 minutes.  Dump out to marble counter top, knead by hand for 3-4 minutes until dough looks smooth.  Oil a glass bowl, put the dough in, cover with saran wrap and let it rest for 2 hours at room temp (70 degrees F).  The dough doesn't rise much - perhaps 30-40%.  Do a few (3-4) stretch and folds with 5-7 minute in between, let the dough rest covered for 10 minutes, divide and make 250 gm balls.  Dough looks nice and smooth at this point.  Finished dough temperature was 73 degrees.


For the first batch, I put the balls into Cambro round plastic containers and threw them into the fridge for 48 hours CT ferment.  I oiled the bottom of the containers, and the top of the dough balls, and left the lids open for 30 minutes in the fridge before putting the lids on for the rest of the cold ferment. I use the garage fridge that doesn't get opened much.  Took 2 dough balls out to warm up at room temp 90 minutes before opening, topping, and baking.  Took the other two dough balls out 15 minutes after the first two (so the last two wouldn't end up warming up much longer than 90 minutes). 
For the second batch of pizzas, I followed the exact same process the next day.  However, since I was already using the Cambro containers that I had, and to save room in the fridge, I used Tom Lehman's recommended method of using plastic bags.  Put the four dough balls in the plastic baggies on an aluminum cookie sheet and threw them in the fridge for 48 hours.  Took all four dough balls out together 90 minutes before making the first pizza.

Day 1 pizzas turned out great.  They opened easily to 12 inches, there were no signs of ripping and tearing, and they tasted great (made in my Oooni Koda 12 that had the stone heated for one hour prior).  The second batch (next day) in the plastic bags did not maintain their round shape well.  The first two were OK - they fought the stretching a little, felt cold in my hands, and I ended up making 10 inch pizzas.  The last two were bit of a disaster.  Had large bubbles as I opened, felt weak and there were a couple holes.  Still ended up making somewhat misshapen, 10 inch pizzas.  Still tasted great.

- Any thoughts on improving my process appreciated.
- would love to understand why the second batch of pizzas behaved differently
-Is FDT of 73 an issue?  I don't understand how they wouldn't end up being around the room temp (it is winter and home is heated at 70), given that the dough rests at this temp for 2+ hours.  I could change the water temp, but the dough will likely end up at room temp especially there is not much friction involved.
- would I be better off just balling and doing cold ferment without the two hour rest at room temp?

Thanks for any help.

 

Offline 02ebz06

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Re: Need help with my pizza dough
« Reply #1 on: November 08, 2021, 12:24:00 PM »
Not sure what recipe you are following, but my process for 14" NY style (72hr CF) is a bit different.
I use a mixer and knead for approx. 6-8 minutes, looking for the smooth finish.
Also shoot for 75-80 degree FDT. This time of year where I live, I need to warm the water to achieve that.
I ball it, put a light coat of oil on it and into a lightly coated plastic container, then into fridge.
I have no problems with stretching after the 3 days.
Have never tried taken them out prior to the 72 hrs.
I would think you would need more yeast if using the dough prior to the recipe recommendation of 48 hrs.
This is a process that works for me for the recipe I have. That's about all I can offer...
I'm sure some of the more experienced members may be able to provide more than I.

Bruce here... My cooking toys --> FGM 800-B Pizza Oven, Pellet Grill, Pellet Smoker, Propane Griddle, Propane Grill

Offline Mm2531

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Re: Need help with my pizza dough
« Reply #2 on: November 08, 2021, 12:33:05 PM »
Thanks for your reply. 

Do you find the dough to be wet if you stick it in the fridge with the lid closed? Everything I read on here talks about leaving the lid open (or cross stacking) to let the dough cool before closing the lid. Also, how long before you open the dough do you take it out of the fridge?

Offline 02ebz06

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Re: Need help with my pizza dough
« Reply #3 on: November 08, 2021, 01:07:34 PM »
It will be "wet" some, as it was coated with oil to keep it from drying out.
I dump it out into a pan of flour, then flip it over and then on to the stretching board.
Everybody has their own way, this works for me.

This is what I proof the dough ball in:
Bruce here... My cooking toys --> FGM 800-B Pizza Oven, Pellet Grill, Pellet Smoker, Propane Griddle, Propane Grill

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Need help with my pizza dough
« Reply #4 on: November 08, 2021, 01:19:41 PM »
Mm2531,

It wasn't clear from your post whether you used Zip Lock bags. If so, you will see that Tom had a great dislike for such bags. For example, see Reply 4 at:

https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=60530.msg606458;topicseen#msg606458

Peter

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Offline Mm2531

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Re: Need help with my pizza dough
« Reply #5 on: November 08, 2021, 01:45:41 PM »
Thanks, Pete-zza. No, I used the plastic food storage bag that Tom recommended. Twisted like a pony tail and tucked underneath like he advised.

Online Jon in Albany

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Re: Need help with my pizza dough
« Reply #6 on: November 08, 2021, 03:04:45 PM »
I might be the only one here that does this, but it works for me. I saw someone do it on Instagram and have been doing it myself a few years.

Anyone, when I was making smaller dough balls in the 200-250 gram range, I could just drop the dough ball in a bag, twist the pony tail and tuck it under and didn't have any issues. When I moved up to 420-450 gram dough balls, that's when my problem started. When the dough rose in the bag, it lost the circular shape. It expanded into a corner of the bag and I had a hard time (well harder than usual anyhow) making a round pizza.

The easiest way I can describe it is making one of the bottom corners of the bag look like a dunce cap on the dough ball. That way the dough has room to expand and won't really rise into a bag corner. Here a shot of some dough balls. Picture being a thousand words and all...

Offline Mm2531

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Re: Need help with my pizza dough
« Reply #7 on: November 18, 2021, 11:58:21 AM »
I am obviously not at a point where I can tell if the dough needs corrections, so I try to copy a recipe in the hope I can make good pizza and stick with it as my skills grow.

Last weekend I used a recipe from DiLauro pizzeria at Reply 211 on this thread: https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=64584.200 as a starting point.

100% Caputo Blue 00, 62% RT water, 3% salt, 0.1% idy. Mixed everything up by hand, let it rest for 20 minutes, dumped out to the counter top and hand kneaded until smooth (about 3-4 minutes). Dough temperature was just over 72 degrees. Bulk fermented for 5 hours at 74 degrees; dough increased in volume by about 50-60%. Broke up into balls and cold fermented in the refrigerator for 48 hours.  Removed 2 hours before baking to warm up, and baked in my Ooni Koda.

I had some friends over, and they loved the pizza.  The best I have made so far (pics below).  Dough was so easy to open and felt great. Still need lots of improvement, but I am loving the journey.  Trying to duplicate what I did this weekend for different friends and hope it turns out as well.
« Last Edit: November 18, 2021, 07:08:12 PM by Mm2531 »

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