Re-Engineering Buffalo, NY style

[machineman]

Well, I finally gave it a shot! Attached are some pics of the first attempt.

Dough
- Dough is from this thread (58, 2, 1, <1) - made 2 ~21oz balls with 750g flour.
- Kneaded for 10 mins by hand (no mixer)
- Balled and set in fridge covered overnight for 24 hours
- Stretched by hand and topped right out of the fridge
- Baked for 550 on middle rack for 12 minutes on aluminum sheet pan with lard

Sauce
- 1 part Red Pack pizza sauce
- 1 part Full Red tomato puree heavy
- 1/2 part water (OG's note said 1 part water, but that would have seemed too runny)
- 1 tablespoon of sugar, just taking a stab

Cheese
- Galbani (Sorrento) 1lb brick hand-shredded
- Several shakes of oregano on top of cheese before baking

Pepperoni
- right hand side: Boards Head stick, slicked by hand, thin-ish
- left hand side: Bridgeford Old World stick, sliced by hand. Yuck. Boars head wins until I get get some Margerita or Battistoni down here in Florida!

Results
- Bottom was not crispy enough
- Dough did not rise in the oven much
- Was not thick enough (I think I stretched it to thin)
- Was tase but floppy and a little bit dough-y
- Sauce was good but the tomato and sweet were almost "separate" tastes, if that makes sense
- Cheese was on point
- Cheese started to get too brown, and there was a huge air pocket building up at 12 minutes
- Pepperoni crisped up better than expected!

My other dough ball I am going to do everything the same except for the bake. I plan on making the stretch smaller and thicker, and lowering the bake position 1 shelf closer to the bottom of the oven.

I feel like I may need to leave it in there longer, but I don't know how the cheese will fare. Perhaps next experiment will be a slightly lower oven temp, 525, low baking position.

[machineman]

Following up, I ended up using the 2nd dough ball yesterday... so the same dough, but I made some tweaks to the rest of the process.

I am much more pleased with this one, although not quite there yet!

- 48 hour cold ferment
- Rolled the dough (instead of stretch) and to a smaller, thicker size. I was unhappy with the thickness/rise of the bake in my last one
- Lowered the bake position to the 2nd lowest in the oven

The bottom was crispier, but still not quite crisp enough. However, the thickness and texture of the interior was darn near perfect! The cheese still got more well done than I would like so had to pull it out.

I am going to try turning the temp down from 550 to 525 to see if I can get more time to cook the bottom, and the pepperoni will still char with a longer bake time.

Very happy with the edge crisping on the pan, etc... very Bocce like

How do you guys get the crisp/char pepperoni and the cheese still white and melty!?? Seems impossible!

[Fiorot]

Is Buffalo Pizza that thick?

[machineman]

Is Buffalo Pizza that thick?

Generally, yes. It's roughly sicilian thickness. But it's softer and more foccacia like. It stands up to lots of heavy toppings without being floppy, ideally

[FloridaBocces]

...
How do you guys get the crisp/char pepperoni and the cheese still white and melty!?? Seems impossible!

I have had good luck microwaving the pepperoni for 30-45 seconds before putting it on the pie and in the oven.

Yours looked pretty good to me.

[Falls4Life]

@machineman

I battled the same issue with the toppings being done well before the bottom. Sometimes the bottom is darn near raw.
I found that it is the aluminum pans more than the recipe or temperature. Those pans just reflect too much heat.
I purchased a piece of baking steel and let that come to temp for an hour or so during pre heat. Then I place the aluminum pan on that. That should solve your main issue. It more closely mimics a standard pizza oven by having direct heat.

[GPalmer]

As regional cuisine and Pizza grows within our current state of food culture, I often wonder what happened to true Buffalo, New York style pizza. ...

Back from the dead because, you Sir, ROCK! 

[cola__st]

Been workin on this for minute. I think I’m now about as close as a Canadian is gonna get to proper Buffalo pie.

2 day dough. 62% hydration
Oven around 575. About 8-9 minutes in the pan, then a minute or so onto the deck to finish the bottom a bit.

Sauce is made with Stanislaus tomato magic. Can’t get Red Pack up here. Using Venetian pepperoni.

Since my first post in this thread this whole thing has kinda “grown” for me. Started making some pies for friends.. which quickly grew into friends of friends.. which soon grew to complete strangers. I’m now doing a weekly takeout night. Slowly working my way towards opening my own spot in St. Catharines, ON.

This thread and the info contained in it has been so helpful to me. Jay is the king. Thanks for all the help big dog.

If ya wanna check it out, I’m at @stcatharinesboss on Instagram.

[machineman]

Really looks great cola, and congrats on your progression toward opening a shop!

Would love to do something similar here, but in the US (Florida at least) we can't prepare food in a home kitchen for any sort of public distribution (maybe for free? You didn't mention if you are selling them!)

Looking forward to your progress, your pies look amazing! And ya know, if you feel like sharing the entire dough recipe I wouldn't say no

Is that a regular pizza deck oven you have?

[GPalmer]

Been workin on this for minute. I think I’m now about as close as a Canadian is gonna get to proper Buffalo pie.
...

I lived many years in Buffalo, that looks right for a Buffalo pizza.

[Bflopizzanow]

This site offers terrific advice in recreating a Buffalo Style pizza at home. I've used the enlightened recommendations for a base sauce, dough, and a working methodology. Experimenting with Redpack, Bonta, Saporita Pizza Sauce, Sporita's Super Heavy Tomato Puree, cooking times, and a Bocce dough recipe,  I obtained really good results. Better than I ever had previously. But something continued to elude my taste buds. After much investigation, a mix of Armour's Cup & Char Pepperoni and Margherita were added to my favored list of pizza ingredients. That was a good addition. However, something was still missing.

First, accommodating my baking style for a pizza stone and then learning how to use a steel have proven advantageous. However, I'm still bewildered by a missing ingredient.

What is it that brings the unique flavor to Buffalo pizza sauce? Might it be a hard cheese added before the Sorrento Whole Milk Mozzarella? Most use oregano parmesan and basil. What else is missing? Imperial, Bocce, and a few others are examples of this unique flavor. Terrific tomato puree, whole milk mozzarella cheese, and oregano are certainly part of the mix. Could it be Fontinella that is the crowning ingredient? Or is it Fontina Cheese or maybe, something else? Hey Buffalo pizza makers, and past pizza parlor jockeys, what's the answer?

[machineman]

This site offers terrific advice in recreating a Buffalo Style pizza at home. I've used the enlightened recommendations for a base sauce, dough, and a working methodology. Experimenting with Redpack, Bonta, Saporita Pizza Sauce, Sporita's Super Heavy Tomato Puree, cooking times, and a Bocce dough recipe,  I obtained really good results. Better than I ever had previously. But something continued to elude my taste buds. After much investigation, a mix of Armour's Cup & Char Pepperoni and Margherita were added to my favored list of pizza ingredients. That was a good addition. However, something was still missing.

First, accommodating my baking style for a pizza stone and then learning how to use a steel have proven advantageous. However, I'm still bewildered by a missing ingredient.

What is it that brings the unique flavor to Buffalo pizza sauce? Might it be a hard cheese added before the Sorrento Whole Milk Mozzarella? Most use oregano parmesan and basil. What else is missing? Imperial, Bocce, and a few others are examples of this unique flavor. Terrific tomato puree, whole milk mozzarella cheese, and oregano are certainly part of the mix. Could it be Fontinella that is the crowning ingredient? Or is it Fontina Cheese or maybe, something else? Hey Buffalo pizza makers, and past pizza parlor jockeys, what's the answer?

Looks great! I too am still chasing that sauce... I know several users comment that it's no big deal, and it might not be... but for as simple as it is, I can't get it despite using all of the different products recommended!

Another thing that keeps escaping me... I can't seem to get the char/crisp pepperoni AND have the top layer of cheese stay melty (rather than start to brown). Some folks have said its the pans I'm using (normal sheet trays) so I am trying to get them seasoned more, or procure something darker.

[Bflopizzanow]

The pix above was a recent pizza. I'm now attempting a modification by topping  the sauce with finely shredded Fontinella before the mozzarella topping. I'm also attempting a slight change to the baking method. The steel has been moved from the lower rack to the middle rack. While the pizza is on the pan, I'll Hi Broil for 2 minutes, and then continue baking at 500 degrees for 8 minutes, before transferring to the steel for 1-2 minutes.

[matermark]

The pix above was a recent pizza. I'm now attempting a modification by topping  the sauce with finely shredded Fontinella before the mozzarella topping. I'm also attempting a slight change to the baking method. The steel has been moved from the lower rack to the middle rack. While the pizza is on the pan, I'll Hi Broil for 2 minutes, and then continue baking at 500 degrees for 8 minutes, before transferring to the steel for 1-2 minutes.

I've lived in Buffalo almost 60 years now... don't ever recall any Fontinella nor Fontina...

There's a small corner store/butcher shop in Sloan on Reiman St... Camilo's Sloan Supermarket. They have the large sauce cans behind the register on the front wall of the store... I have not been in there in about a year now, but I would guess they would have sold what local pizzerias may buy... this would be the far east side so I don't know how much difference between pizzerias that have been here for years vs your "Big 3" names. I've only worked at Santora's and Poochie's but mostly as driver/pan cleaner/boxer, and that was probably over 40 years ago so can't be much help on brands.

Camilo's website is http://www.sloansupermarket.com I think... my neighborhood (East Lovejoy) plus Sloan and Broadway probably have or had dozens of pizzerias, from Pizza John's (cheese over toppings, like dandelions), Norm's & Avenue (pasty sauce), Frank's, etc, among others. Wish I could help more...

[matermark]

This site offers terrific advice in recreating a Buffalo Style pizza at home. I've used the enlightened recommendations for a base sauce, dough, and a working methodology. Experimenting with Redpack, Bonta, Saporita Pizza Sauce, Sporita's Super Heavy Tomato Puree, cooking times, and a Bocce dough recipe,  I obtained really good results. Better than I ever had previously. But something continued to elude my taste buds. After much investigation, a mix of Armour's Cup & Char Pepperoni and Margherita were added to my favored list of pizza ingredients. That was a good addition. However, something was still missing.

First, accommodating my baking style for a pizza stone and then learning how to use a steel have proven advantageous. However, I'm still bewildered by a missing ingredient.

What is it that brings the unique flavor to Buffalo pizza sauce? Might it be a hard cheese added before the Sorrento Whole Milk Mozzarella? Most use oregano parmesan and basil. What else is missing? Imperial, Bocce, and a few others are examples of this unique flavor. Terrific tomato puree, whole milk mozzarella cheese, and oregano are certainly part of the mix. Could it be Fontinella that is the crowning ingredient? Or is it Fontina Cheese or maybe, something else? Hey Buffalo pizza makers, and past pizza parlor jockeys, what's the answer?

Your pizza looks good but your cheese has that bubbling/boiling look.

[Bflopizzanow]

The unique flavor of the Bocce, Imperial, Leonardi, and the defunct Milano's Pizzeria sauce, continues to baffle me.

My latest overhaul in moving the steel to the upper part of the oven has solved the colorization of the cheese. It's now white, gooey and stretchy.

Someone on another site made this comment and I thought it was worth pursuing — "Buffalo native here letting you know you ALMOST nailed it! This recipe will make an amazing Buffalo pizza, however if you want to kick up the pizza just a little bit, lay down some crumbled fontinella cheese before the mozzarella. Source: i made pizza for La Nova back in the day."

However, the Fontinella wasn't the winner of the mystery.

[matermark]

Your last line looks like you tried it. I seriously doubt they put it on before the mozzarella. If it were on the pizza, I think it would be in their blend so a worker wouldn't screw up something like forgetting to put it on some pizzas. If they put anything on first it may be from a shaker can...

[Jon in Albany]

Hi Jay- nice to see you back. Macy's seems to be the hot pizza spot for the moment. Definitely too new to be old school. They've got a second location coming soon.

[budzis]

Hey Jay Nice to see you're back to posting.  Never caught your food truck but your place was my go-to whenever I wanted something other than Picassos. Hope the move is treating you well.  Too bad GA is such a drive, I hope to have an excuse to swing by sometime.

Been working on trying to get as close as I can to a Picasso's pizza, which is pretty close to what you consider Buffalo style.  This thread has been a great resource so figured I'd share progress.  Included some pictures of what I made today.

Dough based off of Pete's 24H RT guide

• ~820g King Arthur bread flour
• 12g table salt
• 8g sugart
• ~0.08g IDY but my scale likes to jump around 
• Mixed flour + salt + sugar, then added yeast + mixed again to evenly disperse everything
• 460g lukewarm water from tap
• Drizzed in while mixing in Kitchenaid on 3, added in 1-2tbsp more water as it mixed for ~10min b/c it seemed a little dry and mixer was struggling

Immediately balled into 2x ~325g and 1x ~660g.  Sprayed 3 bowls with some olive oil spray, put balls in, sprayed lightly again and covered.  Left for ~16 hours at a ~76 deg RT.

Greased a half sheet tray with butter, spread out the large ball so it was all even in the pan and left it for ~3 hours to rise a bit.

Used red pack (found it at Restaurant Depot) w/ salt, sugar, and oregano to taste.  Didn't water it down but probably will do so slightly next time.  I prefer a thicker sauce and had never used Red Pack before so wanted to try it this way first.

Added grated parm, WM LM mozzerella, and ezzo supreme/black olive/sliced onion.

Definitely the closest I've gotten to Picassos but wasn't going for an exact clone.  Next week I'll probably try hand sliced margherita pepperoni, using Galbani cheese, adding a dust like they use, and greasing pan with shortening instead of butter.  The dough was also more chewy than I remember theirs being, so I'm considering switching to AP or subbing some water for milk.  Supposedly they put milk powder in their dough.

I'm also not convinced they use Red Pack - they supposedly use a family recipe w/ romano in the sauce.  I also picked up some Bonta from RD so I'm hopeful that's closer - but I have a lot of Red Pack in my freezer to use for a while!    The red pack definitely reminded me of a lot of modern Buffalo pizzas just not Picassos.

Looking forward to seeing what you come up with for OG Buffalo style!

[budzis]

No pictures this time but been experimenting a bit.  Tried milk in the dough and didn't particularly like the results.  Also tried the Bocce dough (but without the water spraying) you posted in the other thread, but it didn't turn out well at all.  I made ~1300g and left it to bulk for the 2h at 76deg, then put it in the fridge.  I think it ended up both over-kneaded and over proofed because it was extremely springy as soon as it was done mixing - almost rubber/gum like - and it had also doubled before it even went into the fridge. 

In the midst of this I also got a new aluminum nordic ware tray to try out and also wasn't a fan.  The first time the dough was underdone.  The second time I got good results baking on the very bottom rack of the oven, but it still didn't brown as nicely as I would like, and it took almost twice as long which affected the cheese.  I have a single Wilton pan that works great every time for me, but I have no idea where it came from.  Been thinking about getting a carbon steel or lloyd pan to experiment with next.

Anyways, I've ended up back at using a fully RT fermented dough with just water/yeast/flour (all trumps)/salt.  I'll probably add in some sugar for future trials but haven't felt like rocking the boat after my questionable few weeks   It might not end up being classic buffalo style but it's making great pizzas for now.

Planning to stick with WMLM Galbani cheese.  Mixing it up between red pack/bonta/full red/super dolce until I decide which I like best.  I moved away from adding much to them though, I've just been adding salt and depending on the sauce sometimes sugar.

Saw that you're planning to set up back in Buffalo to sell some OG style pizza!  They've been looking great from what you posted.  Hopefully it will inspire more places in the area to produce something more unique.  Very excited to try it.  I probably won't be back in Buffalo for a while so I'm optimistic you'll be selling them by then!