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Author Topic: Italian Flour in NY Pies  (Read 596 times)

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Offline gmladdison

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Italian Flour in NY Pies
« on: August 02, 2021, 07:52:33 AM »
I have recently been playing with the idea of using a portion of 00 flour in my New York dough. Specifically Stagione flour. I think at too high a percentage the crumb just isnít right for NY style, but when a little is added it gives the crust a soft almost velvety feel to me. Im thinking I will probably land at around 30% 00.

I wanted to know if anyone had any experience adding 00 to NY dough, and if they had any tips or tricks for this. Is there an ideal hydration to work with? Is the mix different at all? I havenít really made any serious attempts at Neapolitan pizza, but perhaps someone with more of that experience could weigh in.

Best

Gerald

Offline billg

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Re: Italian Flour in NY Pies
« Reply #1 on: August 02, 2021, 09:34:37 AM »
I have recently been playing with the idea of using a portion of 00 flour in my New York dough. Specifically Stagione flour. I think at too high a percentage the crumb just isnít right for NY style, but when a little is added it gives the crust a soft almost velvety feel to me. Im thinking I will probably land at around 30% 00.

I wanted to know if anyone had any experience adding 00 to NY dough, and if they had any tips or tricks for this. Is there an ideal hydration to work with? Is the mix different at all? I havenít really made any serious attempts at Neapolitan pizza, but perhaps someone with more of that experience could weigh in.

Best

Gerald

I have used and continue to use Caputo Saccorosso with great results.  It can handle higher hydrations than pizzeria and can handle long cold fermentation.  Makes great bread as well.  This is my favorite flour from Caputo.  I use it for Ny style and Neapolitan. If you use it for Ny, use 1-3% sugar in the dough formula or 1-2% LDMP otherwise it won't brown in the home oven.  If cooking at higher temps (wood oven) 750-900f eliminate the sugar and LDMP.

Offline Pizza_Not_War

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Re: Italian Flour in NY Pies
« Reply #2 on: August 02, 2021, 10:24:58 AM »
I use mostly 00 high protein in my NY. Works great 👍.

Offline scott r

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Re: Italian Flour in NY Pies
« Reply #3 on: August 02, 2021, 10:32:28 AM »
Lots of places mix American and Italian 00 flours. One of the most famous is Difara pizza in Brooklyn.  They do mostly Italian 00 with a smaller percentage of all trumps.    The opposite works as well. 

How much to use is all about how much coloration and browning you want for your finished product.   Italian flours are not typically malted (one exception is Caputo Americana).  Most high gluten or even many bread flours in the US are malted or use enzymes to help with coloration.  This means that if you use a high percenage of typical American pizzeria flours you will have a darker color than if you use a high percentage of your Italian flour.   

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Italian Flour in NY Pies
« Reply #4 on: August 02, 2021, 11:34:00 AM »
Several years ago, when I tried to decipher what Dom DeMarco was doing with his dough, I wrote a few times about the combination of 00 flour and high gluten flour that he was using at the time. See, for example, Reply 5 at:

https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=7527.msg64773;topicseen#msg64773

I should also note that Evelyne Slomon once posted her version of a NY style dough recipe that was based only on 00 flour. The dough was an emergency type dough that could be used in a few hours after making. Here is Evelyne's post with the recipe:

Reply 606 at https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=576.msg41054#msg41054

There is also some commentary by Evelyne in Reply 606 about her relationship with Tom Lehmann that I found to be interesting.

Peter

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Offline Georgev

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Re: Italian Flour in NY Pies
« Reply #5 on: August 04, 2021, 05:18:40 PM »
Testing a Neo mixed with King Arthur special patent. The 00 is 5stagioni at 20% no sugar no oil. I plan on cooking at 600 Iíll post pics tomorrow

Offline gmladdison

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Re: Italian Flour in NY Pies
« Reply #6 on: August 05, 2021, 09:26:08 PM »
Here are a couple pies I made with various doughs. Generally 30% stagione, 60% bread flour(either Lancelot, or High mountain from central milling) and 10% whole grains. Some with poolish some without.  Did some testing in a Pizzamaster. Always improvements to make but not a bad start.

Offline RHawthorne

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Re: Italian Flour in NY Pies
« Reply #7 on: August 05, 2021, 10:56:00 PM »
Lately, I've been doing a 50/50 blend of either 0 or 00 flour and either AP flour or bread flour. I've been liking the results quite a bit, although I'm not necessarily trying to hit the NYC style right on the head per se. The combination gives me a nicely extensible dough and a finished crust with a very nice body when baked in my indoor gas oven on a baking stone at 525 degrees F for about 7 or 8 minutes. Overall, I think I like 0 flour better than 00 flour, or at least that's the case with the brands I've been using.
If we're not questioning the reason for our existence, then what the hell are we doing here?!

Offline zole2112

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Re: Italian Flour in NY Pies
« Reply #8 on: August 06, 2021, 09:21:44 AM »
I've done a 50/50 mix with a high protein flour (All Trumps or Bouncer for example) and OO quite a few times. I've had great results and it changes it up a bit from 100% All Trumps with a bit more chew in my pies. Amazing how you can make a really thin crust that has both crunch and chew!

Offline Georgev

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Re: Italian Flour in NY Pies
« Reply #9 on: August 06, 2021, 11:47:14 PM »
Here are a couple pies I made with various doughs. Generally 30% stagione, 60% bread flour(either Lancelot, or High mountain from central milling) and 10% whole grains. Some with poolish some without.  Did some testing in a Pizzamaster. Always improvements to make but not a bad start.
These look great what was your pizzamaster oven settings?

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Offline Jersey Pie Boy

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Re: Italian Flour in NY Pies
« Reply #10 on: August 07, 2021, 10:14:29 AM »
Yes, those are great! Would love to know your settings times and temps...what hydration are you running here? Thanks

Offline gmladdison

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Re: Italian Flour in NY Pies
« Reply #11 on: August 07, 2021, 01:41:38 PM »
Yes, those are great! Would love to know your settings times and temps...what hydration are you running here? Thanks

Running 600 4/7 bottom/top about a 6 minutes bake time. Might go down to 575 and take top down to 6 want a slightly crispier undercarriage. These pies range from 64-67% hydro

Offline Jersey Pie Boy

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Re: Italian Flour in NY Pies
« Reply #12 on: August 07, 2021, 06:13:04 PM »
Great, thanks!

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